Hawks bits and pieces

Hang in there, Hawks fans. We’ll make it through this summer yet (or so I keep telling myself, anyway).

While things seem fairly quiet in free agency, and that would be for all NBA teams at the moment, a few tidbits are floating around that may prove to be a useful diversion for a minute or two. As we discuss those, I keep thinking about the missing Lorenzen Wright. Missing persons cases more often than not are either a false alarm, or they don’t end very nicely. But some do. And I hope that this is one of those where “all’s well that ends well.”  Peace and blessings on his family, who I’m sure are sick with worry. These kinds of things never seem to matter to people until they hit close to home. Again, I hope this ends well.

 

Tough Times

As much noise as we make about adding size and toughness to the roster, do we bother to consider that adding toughness doesn’t always mean adding a body? When the official announcement of the signing of former Lakers forward/center Josh Powell finally came down, one of the catch phrases was that he “adds toughness.” Well, if the Lakers say he’s a good guy and a good addition, I’ll take their word for it, at least to an extent. After all, Powell hasn’t played many minutes in L.A., so we don’t have a lot of visual evidence to review (other than some youtube clips) for confirmation. But what about the guys who were already on the roster? Can’t you add toughness….by simply becoming tougher?

If you ask me (and you didn’t, but guess what?) toughness is a state of mind. The body can be willing and able, but it’s no good if the spirit is weak. Avid Hawks fan and blogger Northcyde is one of the foremost fans calling for two of our key guys (Al Horford and Josh Smith) to play a lot tougher, as the success of this team depends heavily on that. Realistically, that can be the key difference between competing at the highest levels, or struggling to do so. Look no further than last season’s first round playoff series. The Hawks struggled mightily when Al Horford allowed himself to get out-toughed by Kurt Thomas, and Josh Smith allowed Ersan Ilyasova to out-hustle and outplay him for stretches at a time.

So what can the Hawks do to get tougher? What are Josh Smith and Marvin Williams doing to get tougher. Those are two guys who could really have an impact on the game if they bring it with more force. In fact, that’s the one thing that can really optimize a lineup of long, athletic players. Without it, much is wasted.

How does one change one’s mindset? Different people have different methods. And sometimes the body has to be brought up to speed with the mind. The idea is to be tough all the time, not just when backed into a corner and forced into “fight or flight” mode. Well, it seems one Hawk is going to give it a go in the offseason.  As noted on NBA.com (on the Atlanta Hawks official site), backup center Zaza Pachulia has added to his offseason regimen, and the results might be more than just better conditioning, footwork, and overall stamina. It might just result in a tougher approach to the game. All I can say is watch out Kevin Garnett! I still love that moment in Hawks history…

 

The “other” Star Guard

According to ESPN.com, Hawks super sub Jamal Crawford would like to discuss money matters. He wants to remain a Hawk, and I’m sure any Hawks spokesperson would likely state that they would like to keep him around. And while Jamal has been around the league for a decade (and been with several teams), he may as well get comfortable wherever he is sitting. After all, things don’t tend to happen around the front office at lightning speed. Especially if they don’t really have to. The question is, do the Hawks want him to finish out his career in Atlanta? Might they see him as a two way asset, or has he proven himself to be indispensable? Jamal seemed to fit in pretty darn well, and that is not likely to change under new head coach Larry Drew. But, if the Hawks are very slow or otherwise noncommittal to signing him to an extension, what might it be an indication of? Of course, a number of theories could abound. Understandably, they may be more focused on preparing an extension offer to Al Horford. Or, they may have other moves up their sleeve. You just never know. But, for the sake of the sanity of blogger Steve Brown, I won’t mention one of the most obvious and talked about (by others, not just me) possibilities.

In the meantime, I wish I could be an invisible fly on the wall in training camp. If for no other reason than to watch Jamal Crawford playing against Jordan Crawford. That would have to be a fun matchup, no?

560 comments Add your comment

drmaryb (*_*)

July 29th, 2010
4:54 pm

Same Ole – Same Ole!

Re-Signing Collins should have no bearing on signing Shaq – whatsoever.

Astro Joe

You killing the “Straw-Man Theory” and everything in his path. They got no comeback,
They got NOTHING for you baby! Some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing.

“What we are having is a healthy, decent conversation.”. That’s all folks!
(- Cedric the Entertainer -)

Astro Joe baby, You do You! Excellent posts today!

Astro Joe

July 29th, 2010
5:01 pm

Dr. Mary… you’re a trip. As long as I keep the ladies happy, all is good :) .

The Eddie Jones thing had me laughing though. Melvin was straight irate at the notion the Heat were hiring the decrepid to join their squad. I was waiting for a post suggesting that Rony Seikaly was headed back to South Beach. LOL.

Speaking of conditioning, I hope the Hawks realize that a motion offense requires better conditioning than standing around on iso plays. I hope they are prepping for that now as opposed to waiting until October. It’s kind of hard to learn a new offense when you’re bent over gasping for air.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 29th, 2010
5:13 pm

Run Hard for the Money!

Astro Joe

I was thinking the same thing! These boys are gonna’ have to run hard for the money!
They asked for it – They got it! Toyota!

We Fans don’t wanna’ hear NO complaints about how HC working them top hard in practice and they got no legs for the games!

Remember them Pat Riley “Three – a – Days?”
Dwayne Wade told Pat Riley to stay upstairs and they would run through a wall for Spolestra! LOL!

O'Brien

July 29th, 2010
5:26 pm

AJ,

If im not mistaken, Ron Seikaly is a well known DJ in Miami so he probly wouldnt have to move to play for the heat.

Nire,

I think rick should have a weight clause for Jason Collins. Pat Riley is notorious for having it in his contracts.

And with a motion offense, guys need to be in shape. With our team being young and athletic, I also hope we press more (especially when teague is in the game).

I like how Miami has filled its Bench. Big Z, Mike Miller, Eddie house, juwan Howard, Jamal macgloire, James Jones. They are old though…

Astro Joe

July 29th, 2010
5:30 pm

Dr. Mary… exactly. I can hear the excuse making already. As if they don’t already know what will happen during the vet’s camp in what, maybe 60-75 days. They may not know the exact angles associated with the pentangle, but they shouldn’t pretend that it won’t require considerably more movement than what they have practiced in the past 6 years.

Astro Joe

July 29th, 2010
5:33 pm

DJ Rony? Really? I had no idea. Man, as if being tall, rich and looking like a Greek god didn’t help him back in the day with the ladies. Now he’s spinning records at clubs? Wow. Dude knows how to stay relevant to the finer half, huh? I ain’t mad at him.

Rufus1

July 29th, 2010
5:41 pm

Collins

I don’t care if he loses weight….I WANT HIM TO LIFT A WEIGHT.

A 270lb pillow is still SOFT…I will take a 260lb ROCK!!!

O'Brien

July 29th, 2010
6:36 pm

AJ,

During his playing days, he was called the “spin doctor”, so I guess the name still applies. He even has a single coming out “Come With Me” (complete with vocals and lyrics Seikaly wrote) on August 3rd. Do you remember his supermodel ex-wife?

I wont be surprised if the Hawks start the regular season slow while adjusting, and Drew tries to find the best rotation. However, I expect them to finish the second half strong.

Ken Strickland

July 29th, 2010
6:43 pm

I don’t see how anyone can automatically say MBibby is better than JTeague. Granted, Bibby is better is certain areas, but Teague is better than Bibby in certain areas as well. The question is, what areas are most important in the particular OFF that’s being run.

In Woodson’s jump shooting, ISO dependent OFF, and its premium on shooting 3’s, Bibby was the better OFF option. But it appears LDrew prefers a quicker, faster, penetrating, DEF minded PG to run his motion OFF, which means Teague is the better option. You can’t get hung up or deceived by Bibby’s excellent assist to turnover ratio.

He takes almost no risks, seldom ventures below the 3pt line with the ball in his hands, and almost never penetrates, or make passes in the lane, except for an occasional pick and roll. If you look at the best PG’s in the league, you’ll see they have higher assist to turnover ratio’s. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE RISK REWARD THING.

Bibby might be perceived as a PG that does an excellent job of protecting the ball, but giving into pressure, handing it off above the 3pt line, and taking few risks is also why he’s one of the NBA’s least productive PG, and THE least productive starting PG’s. When you have the overall speed, quickness, athleticism and versatility of the Hawks, you can afford to take more risks and have more turnovers.

Ken Strickland

July 29th, 2010
6:56 pm

OBRIEN-I’m not so certain they will start the season slow, although it’s certainly possible. While I doubt if they’re familiar with LDrew’s entire OFF scheme, JJ, Teague and Drew indicated they ran it to some extent during practice throughout the season. And let’s face it, our players are probably going to be so excited, attentive, and motivated to prove something, they’ll probably absorb everything Drew and Connor teaches them.

Marvin, Teague and Smoove have been criticized and blamed far more than they’ve been encouraged, and that’s certainly going to change this yr.

K-Dogg

July 29th, 2010
7:30 pm

This has been the worst summer as a hawk fan ever!! Last year we did ok by getting the best 6 man in basketball the year before that got decent guys like Flip and Mo that were vets taht knew how to win and could play two postions and this year we re-sign Big Chimp munk collins and Josh 6′6 Powell to add to add another small undersized big man and add a coach that came from the same system we just ran out of town!!! Good Job Rick Sund and Hawks owners you sure now how to give your fan base something to look foward too.

K-Dogg

July 29th, 2010
7:33 pm

Man if im Crawford 2 im in the lab working on being a point guard b/c he can mess around and start b/c Bibby is better off coming off the bench at this stage and Teague based on the way he played in summer league may not last 5 NBA starts!!!! I would much ratehr have Crawford running a high pick and roll then Teague b/c i know they going to dare him night in and night out to knock down a 20 foot jumper!!!

Rev in Tampa

July 29th, 2010
7:49 pm

This whole idea of JC2 being the point is all hype. He had two games in the SUMMER League where he made some passes after he knocked down some deep 3’s. I doubt that he would want the point if it were offered because he is a scorer. Different mentality. The Hawks need someone who can penetrate, dish, create & score; in that order.

O'Brien

July 29th, 2010
7:55 pm

Ken S,

The players might be hyped, but I get the feeling that an offense like Drew’s requires players to be patient, and play under control. Whenever a player is in the zone, they usually say the game slows down for them.

That is what the players will have to do. Slow the game down, and not be too excited.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 29th, 2010
7:59 pm

Rev in Tampa

Preach that Truth – Brother! You definitely know your basketball, you will hear a lot of drama on these blogs.
Just keep on – keeping it Real!

northcyde

July 29th, 2010
8:07 pm

YEEEEEEAAAHHHHHHH!!

WE SIGNED COLLINS !!!

I can’t wait to get my Collins jersey in November.

**********

I bet Sund and Drew had this convo today in his office . . . .

SUND: “Larry . . we got you some big man help”.

DREW: “Wow . . are you telling me that you got Shaq? I can’t believe you closed the deal. Rick . . you da man! You da mudda-frickin . .

SUND: ( interrups ) . . . “Larry . . Larry slow down. We didn’t sign Shaq.”

DREW: ( curious ) “Oh? . . . So who did you sign?”

SUND: “Jason Collins”

DREW: ( mouth open, speechless )

SUND: “Come on now Larry. You know my hands are tied. You know that Gearon and the boys refuse to go into the Luxury Tax. I can only sign minimum contract players now. Don’t act surprised Larry.”

DREW: ( head down, talking in a low, disappointed voice ) . . . “Yeah Rick. I know. I was just hoping that . . .”

SUND: ( interrupts again ) . . “Just stop hoping. It’s not going to happen.”

DREW: “So have you told Al yet? He’s gonna be pizzed that we didn’t bring in another rebounder.”

SUND: “No . . I haven’t told him yet. I’ll leave that to you.”

DREW: “Me? Oh No. You’re the GM. That’s YOUR job sir. He’s not biting my head off.”

SUND: “Larry, we discussed this before the draft. All of us personnel people have to rotate when talking to the media. And you know it’s your turn today. So it’s you that will face Al.”

DREW: “Can I resign?”

SUND: “No . . . ( laughs ) Time to face the music and feel what I go through on a daily basis. And make sure you make up a good lie for why we brought Collins back.”

((( Al Horford busts through Sund’s office door . . mad as hell )))

SUND: ( nudging Drew ) “Here we go”"

HORFORD: “I just checked my Twitter. COLLINS, Rick? . . COLLINS???? . . I asked for rebounding help, and you signed THIS (( bleepa bleepa )) back here????

SUND: “Calm down Al.”

HORFORD: ( spinning around like Chris Tucker in Rush Hour 2 at the Craps table ) . . . “I ain’t calming down!!! WTF are me and Smoove supposed to do?”

SUND: ( pointing and walking toward the door ) . . “Welp . . time for me to go. Handle this Larry.”

( Sund runs out the door as Horford is cussing him out in Spanish. Horford turns to Drew. )

HORFORD: “But you know he can’t do ish, Coach. He can’t rebound. He can’t block a shot. He can’t score. WTF can he do coach? Huh? Tell me!! What can he do?

( Al storms out of the room, cussing in Spanish )

DREW: “Damn . . . what did I get myself into.” ( thinking – WWWD? . . . .”What Would Woody Do”? )

Big Ray

July 29th, 2010
8:38 pm

ROFLMBAO…@ Northcyde

[...] Hawks pieces and piecesAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)As we plead those, I keep meditative about the blank Lorenzen Wright. Missing persons cases some-more mostly than not have been possibly a fake alarm, or they don't … [...]

O'Brien

July 29th, 2010
8:53 pm

DREW shouts into the distance: “But Al, you know they are worried about Chemistry. And Jason is a big locker room presence”.

Al turned around in disgust: “Of course he is a big presence. Have you seen how huge that dude is?”

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
8:58 pm

Ray,

BA = Black Ass?

Mike is back

July 29th, 2010
9:00 pm

Dang northcyde, its going to be hard to recover from that one broooooooooo.

Great stuff folks…keep bring the heaT..in this motha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Truth

July 29th, 2010
9:01 pm

northcyde

You done earned yourself an ocar with that performance. I’m lol as I type :)

Wabe

July 29th, 2010
9:20 pm

8:07 post by northcyde…

hilarious

Astro Joe

July 29th, 2010
9:32 pm

You have to laugh at the sameness.

I wonder if the ASG and Sund told Joe that they would continue to “add” like BK told him some 5 years ago? I wonder if they told Drew that the roster would be even slightly different or that they would try to keep it virtually identical? Bottom line, I wonder if guys are cool with having the same teammates or if someone is grousing right now (other than northcyde’s depiction of Horford’s reaction). I hope these guys are slap-happy excited about the transactions of the past 5 weeks. If nothing else, they won’t have to spend money on name tags… the big new guyy is Josh and the little new guy is Crawford. All else is sameness.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
9:44 pm

Last Year spots 10-13 – Mario West – now JC2 a rook – better Offense, assuredly worse defense. Maybe better potential for the future.

Joe Smith – now Josh Powell – by almost every measurement, Joe Smith was better than Powell last yr. – see Hoopinion blog.

Jason Collins last year – Jason Collins now 1 year older – probably worse.

Kwame, Josh Boone, Rasho, or Shaq – all are better than RandMo! So this is how we improve or team? Or is RandMo coming back? Or sheer terror – Jarron Collins taking his place so ASG can have the twins angle in marketing!!!!

We got 3m on draft day to spend on 3 veteran bigs – and the 1st two are for the league minimum basically – and the NBA makes you have 13 guys so we have to have 1 more. Somebody – make ASG spend the money, the 3m they said they would – quick – Jeff, Mark, Micheal – all 3, right lead stories on the lie until they spend the money!

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
9:45 pm

“Right” should be “write” in my previous post – my bad.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
9:50 pm

The progression – Yahoo Sports reports that the Hawks are shopping the no.24 pick for 3m. Hawks fans scream bloody murder. Sund then sells the no.31 pick while swapping 24 and 27 with the Nets – 3m pocketed. Sund then says 3m for a vet Big Man – 1 roster spot left – better make it happen. They kick politicians out of office for this kind of stuff! Hawks fans of the world unite! We have nothing to lose but our chains! Ok, so I’m being over dramatic -Northcyde inspired me.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
9:57 pm

Let’s see, as constituted, with bench – Miami versus the Hawks

C- Hawks 10-7
PF – Heat 10-8
SF – Heat 10-7
SG – Heat 10-9
PG – Hawks 10-9

Total – Heat 46 – Hawks 43 – so unless something weird happens – Heat are just better than us, end of story. And that is being kind to Marvin and Mo’ because of Defense.

Bosh and Haslem are just better than Smith/Powell – wish they weren’t just a fact.

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
10:00 pm

SteveW,

Sund never said the $3M would be used to sign a vet big man. He said he sold the #31 pick because he wanted to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans:

“I think we need more veterans,” he said. “We are one of the youngest teams in the league still. I think we need to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans.”

And whaddya know – they have. Last time I checked, Powell and Collins were veterans.

It was fans obsessed with ASG’s spending habits that connected the $3M to signing more expensive veterans. Sund never said it. He never even came close to saying it.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
10:02 pm

Bulls – Hawks – match up:

C- Hawks 10-7
PF – Hawks 10-9 (some will disagree with that)
SF – Bulls 10-9
SG – Hawks 10-8
PG – Bulls 10-6 (almost 5)

End results – Bulls 44 Hawks 45 – almost equal – and that is ranking Josh over Boozer/Gibson – and Horford/ZaZa way over Noah/Thomas – the case could easily be made that the Bulls are better than the Hawks.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
10:05 pm

The point of the above posts are that the Hawks must improve – treading water is going backwards in this league – we traded out West for JC2
We switched Smith for Josh Powell

And that’s it – you don’t win in this league unless you improve

Some think Drew for Woody is the magic formula, but you’ve gotta have the players….

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
10:05 pm

SteveW,

You really think JJ/Crawford is only a 10-8 over Ronnie Brewer/Kyle Korver????????? What??????? I’m sorry, but that’s at least a 10-6.

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
10:12 pm

I really think that the Hawks are one of only 3-4 teams in the NBA that can boast:

1) Four All-Star caliber players (Joe, Al, Josh, Jamal); and
2) Eight guys total (+ Marvin, Bibby, Mo, Zaza) who would be rotation players on pretty much any team in the league.

Even if you knock #2 down to 7 guys because you loathe one of the four players, the combo would still hold true. And the guys at spots 9 to 11 – Teague, Powell, and Jordan – are not slouches either.

I don’t know if familiarity just breeds contempt, but it’s something I came to believe more and more as I watched the team last year. The Hawks have the talent to compete with any team in the NBA with the possible exception of the Lakers. In my view, this is a championship-caliber roster that was being held back by a terrible coach. That’s not to say that I don’t think the roster can be improved – I still want to see the Hawks sign a decent-sized SF to back up Marvin. But I think this roster is way, way better than people give it credit for.

As I said, I think familiarity breeds contempt.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
10:14 pm

niremetal – hope your right on Brewer/Korver – but i probably went a little high on Powell/Smith over Gibson/Boozer – and I’m gonna hunt for that story by Sund – let you know if I find it.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
10:17 pm

Niremetal – don’t think Jamal is quite all star calibre – just below, but not quite.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
10:37 pm

Sund said the focus would getting bigs for the last three roster spots. That’s good news to Al, who thinks the Hawks definitely need to acquire a bona fide center.

Niremetal – that is the quote – we have to have 13 guys per league rules – so the 3m should be on top of the League Minimum – and he said he wanted bigs for the last 3 roster spots – So 2+2=4 Spend the 3m on vets – last 3 roster spots bigs – so 3m on top of what the league requires on a vet bigs – He said it

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
10:44 pm

SteveW,

Where did he say that the $3M would be used for that purpose? Where?

You say he said it, but he never did. All he said was that he wanted to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans. He never, ever tied “filling out the rest of the roster with veterans” to the $3M. Never.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 29th, 2010
10:54 pm

“Bosh and Haslem are just better than Smith/Powell – wish they weren’t just a fact.”

I am with you on the Heat being a better team than the Hawks; their 2nd best player is better than anyone the Hawks have. But Bosh does not do a single thing better than Smoove other than scoring. On a team that already has two of the best scorers in the league, Bosh’s main contribution is going to have to be in defense, toughness, and rebounding; he has never been tough or a good defender, and his rebounding stats are way inflated thanks to playing on a team where nobody else was interested in rebounding.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
11:07 pm

He said he sold the #31 pick because he wanted to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans:

Niremetal – the above quote is from you a few posts up. Sund would not have to sell the #31 pick to fill out the roster with veterans – he is required by league rules to have 13 guys on the team. He could have traded the #31 for a veteran big – or traded it for a future 2nd etc. – but he sold it. Why? To fill out the rest of the roster with veterans – bigs to be exact (see above post) – spending the 3 mill. on them! That’s when he said it. I’m not following your logic – are you saying Sund sold #31 to add 3 guys at the minimum? You already said he sold it because we needed more veterans. Now you have been shown he meant 3 veteran bigs. Now your using some kind of logic that says he sold it so we would not use it? I guess that is what your are saying? Instead of trading and early 2nd for a valuable piece – 2 future 2nds etc.? Speak up and tell us what you mean.

SteveW

July 29th, 2010
11:23 pm

Sund suggested the money earned from selling the pick would be used to add proven players to the roster.

“I think we need more veterans,” he said. “We are one of the youngest teams in the league still. I think we need to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans.”

And we later find out those veterans would be bigs. Did he sell the #31 pick to pocket the money or too spend over and above the league minimum on the last 3 players? 2 of the last 3 roster spots have been for the league minimum basically – so 1 to go to spend the 3m over and above the vet minimum – let’s see if they do or have we been lied to?

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
11:36 pm

SteveW,

The “logic” in your post is based on a bunch of assumptions that you take for granted; in other words, there are big gaps in your logic. The biggest one is the one I’ve said already: Sund never made any connection whatsoever between the $3M and the last three roster spots. None. Ever. He DID make a connection between trading away the #31 pick and the last 3 roster spots, but he never said that what the cash the Hawks acquired in that trade would be used to fill out the roster.

Maybe my use of the word “sold” is what’s throwing you. So I’ll put it a different way: Sund said that the Hawks got rid of the #31 pick (rather than keeping it) because he wanted to fill the last three roster spots with veterans. The alternative to getting rid of the pick was using the pick to draft a rookie who would take one of the last 3 roster spots instead of the veteran. Sund said that instead, those roster spots are going to go to veteran players instead of rookies (or other “young” players).

Now, of course, the Hawks did not simply give away the #31 pick. They sold it. But that does not mean that the $3M that they acquired in the trade was earmarked to be used for any particular purpose, and Sund never said that it was. The $3M from the trade could have been earmarked for a thousand different possible purposes. That could have been the money the Hawks needed to pay Joe’s new max salary. Or it could have been the money needed to pay off a debt to a supplier/landlord/etc. It could have been to make sure that the Hawks pays its share of necessary maintenance costs at Phillips Arena. Or for marketing/advertising. Or for some combination of all of those things. Sund never, ever, ever said that it was going to be used to sign more expensive veterans to fill out the bench; that is one of the thousand possible uses for the money, and it’s the one that you and some other fans seem to think it SHOULD be used for, but Sund never said that that’s what it WOULD be used for.

And where are you getting veteran BIGS from?? No one said that except you. I follow your logic on that even less than I follow your logic tying the $3M to signing more expensive veterans.

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
11:40 pm

Let me use an analogy that, while not directly on point, might make my point clearer still. Let’s say I own an ice cream shop that sells ice cream and fruit sorbet. The sorbet and ice cream are made with different machines. One day in July, I look at my sales numbers and realize that in past years, I always have my best sales months in June-August, and that sales drop off quickly after that. During September and October in past years, I usually have trouble paying the bills because of the sales dip. I also look at my receipts and realize that at any time of year, the ice cream sells way better than the sorbet. So I decide to sell my sorbet-making equipment and focus exclusively on making ice cream. So I sell the sorbet-making equipment for $3k and tell my employees that I have sold the sorbet equipment because I decided to focus exclusively on selling ice cream from now on.

Now some of my associates might have hoped that the $3k from the sale of the sorbet stuff would be used to buy more expensive (and, in their eyes, better) ice cream equipment. And since the $3k was acquired at the time I got rid of the sorbet equipment, it might even be tempting to assume that that’s what I would use that $3k for. But I never said that. I just said that I had sold the equipment because I wanted to focus exclusively on making ice cream. It might be that I needed to set the $3k aside to pay the bills during the lean months of the fall and winter, and that the money from the sorbet-making equipment was for that.

Just as my statement that I sold the sorbet because I decided to only sell ice cream does not indicate that the sale of the sorbet equipment would go to get more expensive ice cream making equipment, Sund’s statement that the Hawks traded/sold the draft pick because he decided to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans does not mean that the money from the sale of the pick was earmarked to sign more expensive veterans.

Melvin

July 29th, 2010
11:49 pm

Nire,

The belowed the entire quote from MC article. Which is why I think so many bloggers are tying the 3 mil from the 31st pick to signing FAs…

‘While the Hawks could have selected a project center or wing with that pick, Sund suggested the money earned from selling the pick would be used to add proven players to the roster.

“I think we need more veterans,” he said. “We are one of the youngest teams in the league still. I think we need to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans.”

Melvin

July 29th, 2010
11:52 pm

*Below is the entire quote from MC article.

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
11:55 pm

Melvin,

You’re right that that’s what the original article said, and I don’t doubt that was a part of it. But unless there is a part of the quote that MC left out (which is possible, but it would be odd that he excluded it if he included the rest of that sound byte), it strikes me that MC simply fell into the same “trap” that the ice cream store associates did in the story above. MC asked Sund why the Hawks made the trade where they gave up the #31 pick for $3M. Sund responded “I think we need more veterans . . . we need to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans.” MC interpreted that as “the $3M from the pick would be used for that purpose” even though that’s not what Sund actually said.

I actually will email MC about this when I get back, and I’ll include the ice cream analogy just to be safe ;) . It is possible that there’s more to the quote that does suggest the money was earmarked for that purpose. If so, I’ll say “my bad.” But I think that sentence, which has caused so much angst, was MC unintentionally letting his assumptions seep into the article.

niremetal

July 29th, 2010
11:56 pm

* I don’t doubt that was a part of the reason why Hawks fans connect the two.

Come to think of it, I think that might be the MAIN reason why Hawks fans think that, which is why I’ll email MC when he returns…

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
12:20 am

Niremetal – MC connected the two. Horford looked forward to the new bigs – if no more money than the vet min. used, we could have had the same vet bigs – Collins, Smith, and RandMo – so obviously he (Horford) was connecting the two.

And in your below post – he could have done anything with the number 31 pick besides sell it – trade it for a future pick – trade it for a marketable player etc.

You said he wanted vets – never bigs – I showed you were wrong, that the last 3 vets were to be bigs.

I showed you that Sund implied, that MC took it that way, and that Horford took it that way, that the 3m was to be spent over and above the vet minimums.

Problem admitting your wrong? Looks like it to me.

Maybe my use of the word “sold” is what’s throwing you. So I’ll put it a different way: Sund said that the Hawks got rid of the #31 pick (rather than keeping it) because he wanted to fill the last three roster spots with veterans. The alternative to getting rid of the pick was using the pick to draft a rookie who would take one of the last 3 roster spots instead of the veteran. Sund said that instead, those roster spots are going to go to veteran players instead of rookies (or other “young” players).

I will repeat the story – yahoo sports reported that the Hawks were shopping their 1st pick for 3m. The fan base squawked – look up the blogs.

Sund then sells the 1st pick in a back door way – while pulling a coup and still getting a 1st pick. To cover, he says the 3m is not for the owners – but will be spent to obtain veteran bigs. End of story.

Now I don’t care if ASG takes the 3m and smokes dope with it – I do care that to cover, they claim it will be used on veteran bigs, over and above what the League requires them to have, when in reality they lost 20m this year and wanted money.

And you can parse words and phrases and slight inaccuracies all you want and defend the lie (to this point, they may sign a veteran big like Shaq, Kwame, or Josh Boone with the cash) – but that’s the truth – deal with it!

niremetal

July 30th, 2010
12:26 am

SteveW,

You’re accusing me of parsing words? You should be a ghostwriter for Oliver Stone with that stuff, man.

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
12:28 am

Niremetal – I think in a court of law, it would be interpreted in a way that MC, Horford, myself, and a ton of Hawks fans have interpreted it as well.

MC asked Sund why the Hawks made the trade where they gave up the #31 pick for $3M. Sund responded “I think we need more veterans . . . we need to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans.” MC interpreted that as “the $3M from the pick would be used for that purpose” even though that’s not what Sund actually said.

Dude, the whole fanbase whose been following this issue this summer is waiting for Sund to spend the cash. That’s been the impression given to the fans. Spend the cash for veterans, later defined as bigs, to help this team!

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
12:31 am

Why would Horford be excited about bigs, when we had 3 scrub bigs from last year, unless he was under the impression the 3m would be used for better bigs?

So last year we have 3 scrub bigs basically, for the vet minimum – and Sund is giving Hawks fans hope with 3 more scrub bigs at the vet minimum? Doc, it just doesn’t make sense.