Hawks Fans: Are you okay with the bare minimum?

So far, not much is going on with the Atlanta Hawks in terms of free agency. As we all know, Joe Johnson has been re-signed, and Josh Childress has been signed-and-traded away to the Phoenix Suns (with a $3.6 million trade exception and a 2012 second round pick are what was recouped). While the return on Childress is less than exciting, it’s still better than nothing. So, what else is going on? Nothing. Or maybe something. It’s hard to tell right now, and the summer is still young. But who wants to hear that?

 

The Trade That Wouldn’t Go Away

While no one may be sure where this first started, the speculation on a trade that would bring Shaquille O’Neal to Atlanta and send Marvin Williams to Cleveland has yet to be completely dissolved. The AJC’s Mike Cunningham thinks it may be a dead issue, but some folks think differently. Follow those opposing views to the latest semi-sourceless twitter noise and one simply does not know what to think.

It could be that Shaq wants more money than the Hawks want to play, and a more prominent role than is good for the team. Of course, that is little more than speculation as well. And yet, what DO the Hawks think of Marvin Williams right now? Would they look to move more than one player for the purpose of getting more than a big center who while well past his prime, is still highly effective in certain situations, even if he’s all but guaranteed to not play 82 games? Are the Hawks really thinking about letting Marvin go? Do they really want Shaq enough to make a deal for him? Should they even be thinking about this? Do you want them to make this deal, or something like it?

 

If not Shaq…..

Some feel that Shaq is the best this team can do to add a center to the roster, to help out Al Horford and Josh Smith. Others feel that the Hawks could find better, and ultimately cheaper options at the pivot. Brad Miller floats in and out of discussion, but he could very well decide to stay in Chicago or go to a more “acceptably credible” contending team. However, the inevitable comes into play. What if the Hawks don’t go after Miller, or a young PF type like Anthony Tolliver, or any other of the somewhat more popular names floating around? What if they wait around for a player who simply would like to draw a paycheck while staying glued to the end of the bench? Could there be a Kwame Brown in our future, and are you okay with that? Rick Sund (and ultimately ownership) has talked about filling out the roster with veterans, but what level of quality are the Hawks seeking? Coach Drew and starting center Al Horford are looking for help, but what they would like to have may not at all be what ownership is willing to pay for. There is a line between trying to be shrewd and being flat out cheap. Which side of the line will Sund (and ultimately his bosses) prove to be on?

While it’s very easy to say that summer is far from over (and you’ve got to be tired of hearing this anyway), the fact is that players are flying off of shelves and several teams are making move after move. The analogy of the grass being greener may not apply so much as the idea that others aren’t letting it grow beneath their feet, regardless of the color. The Hawks seem to be, but we just don’t know the facts, the things that go on behind the scenes. At the same time, there isn’t a whole lot of reason to have more than a modicum of faith. Or is there? Again, it’s very hard to say. Waiting around for the proverbial dregs of the league makes a person question if the Hawks are expecting improvement with practically nothing more than a coaching change. I think we all agree that this is less than sufficient to effect significant change. However, this is how things might go. So….If the Hawks go “bare minimum”, are you okay with it, and who would you like to see them snatch up? Should Randolph Morris or Jason Collins be kept around? What about Joe Smith? If not any of them, then who?

 

A Few Summer League Notes

As I write this, the Hawks vs. Bucks summer league game is still in progress (4th quarter), with the Hawks holding a commanding 20 point lead. Highlights include a nice bounce back performance from Jeff Teague, who has had his struggles. Teague took control of the game by playing mostly solid defense, penetrating, and creating opportunities for others, as a point guard should. Jordan Crawford didn’t have a big scoring game, due in part to playing a number of minutes as the point guard, but he still showed an ability to get to the free throw line, make some good passes (3 assists), and snag a handful of rebounds (6).

While the highly active and larger tandem of Keith “Tiny” Gallon and Larry Sanders gave the Hawks fits, it was nice to see the activity level of the hustle-rific Alade Aminu, who never gave up on a play. Aminu fought the heavier and stronger Gallon nearly every play he was in the game, even succeeding with some blocks and rebounds. As with most prospects, consistency is the issue at hand. Hendrix was also a mildly bright spot in an otherwise spotty frontcourt. Beyond that, there wasn’t a lot to talk about, but it was nice to see the team settle down on the offensive side of the ball, and really dig in on the defensive side. As mentioned in past posts, if the rotation players give such an effort, this team will terrorize opponents. Lester Connor appears to be quite serious about the defensive effort.

129 comments Add your comment

Astro Joe

July 15th, 2010
10:28 pm

While I think it would be a bad basketball move, I would applaud if the ASG show some signs of life and acquire Shaq. It would at least show that they are willing to spend a dollar to make 2, as Shaq will put butts in seats in Atlanta. But again, it would be a bad decision for the coming 82 game season, even if it is a good business decision. And if Marvin is the guy leaving, then should we bring in T-Mac just for the sake of going for a ‘Nique, Theus, Moses sequel starring Joe, T-Mac & Shaq?

Sid

July 15th, 2010
10:43 pm

Shaq for marvin just isn’t trade great of a trade to me. The Cavs need to add something to the deal.

Chandler

July 15th, 2010
10:44 pm

Hawks have a history of putting together playoff teams. They do not have a history of going that extra step to secure a championship. Our tradition is make the playoffs and get into the 2nd round and the season was an accomplishment.

mike

July 15th, 2010
10:44 pm

i am torn between making this move.. can marvin thrive in LD’s “new” offense? will shaq’s presence steal zaza’s minutes and piss zaza off? when are where will he play (bench, starter,etc)? i am ok with keeping marvin i think the dude is a good defensive player (dont laugh)

Sid

July 15th, 2010
10:44 pm

“isn’t that great of a trade” is what I ment

Melvin

July 15th, 2010
10:50 pm

Get Shaq in here. Let Marvin start over fresh somewhere else. It’s probably better for him to leave ATL and get away from not living up to the expectations of being the number 2 pick…. Besides, SF is probably the easy position fill.

Astro,
Although I know you was being funny but I would definetly welcome T-Mac here…

SteveW

July 15th, 2010
10:53 pm

Only if it’s Marvin and Bibby for Shaq and Mo’ Williams with use using the trade exception and the 3m form draft day to swing it am I in favor of the trade. Marvin for Shaq straight up? No. Cavs throw in a 1st pick – maybe.

If not Shaq – Tolliver and or Kwame – let’s not do 3 vet minimums in Smith, Collins and RandMo. They said they were spending the 3m from draft day on a big – they better mean it or I hope ASG eats it!

SteveW

July 15th, 2010
10:54 pm

TMac and Stakhouse to fill Marvin’s spot? Maybe…

JSS

July 15th, 2010
10:57 pm

@ Big Ray…
I’m not a big fan of more of the same when it comes to our 9-13 spots. I know it causes an outcry from the non-reality based segment of our fan base; but we can only afford a certain “level” of player. Whether it is a reality choice like Mengba or a fantasy where worlds align and you get Shaq on our terms (that includes minutes); next week has to be where “rubber meets the road.”

SteveW

July 15th, 2010
10:57 pm

Sorry for the bad english in my 1st post – in a hurry typing! It should read basically, “I am in favor of the trade only if we send Bibby and Marvin to the Cavs for Shaq and Mo’ Williams, using our 3m trade exception and the 3m we got on draft day to make it work” I have a feeling we may only get a Jamaro Moon or something however if that were to play out.

SteveW

July 15th, 2010
11:03 pm

Man, or get Matt Barnes for the bi-annual in place of Marvin. Let’s see – Marvin for Shaq and a 1st pick – then sign Matt Barnes – ok, I guess I could live with that – still would like to see them take Bibby for Mo’ somehow- maybe we could give them our 1st pick next season.

Bibby, Marvin and next yrs.1st pick for Shaq and Mo’ – then sign Matt Barnes with the bi-annual

PG – Mo’ and Teague
SG – JJ – Jamal and JC2
SF – Barnes and Evans
PF – Josh and ZaZa
C- Horford and Shaq

Aminu and Dixon/Siler or somebody else on the bench – Ok, we can compete with that if everybody stays healthy.

SteveW

July 15th, 2010
11:05 pm

Actually, we can win a championship with that if everybody stays healthy, I think. Or at least come close.

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Roberts, Michael Cunningham. Michael Cunningham said: AJC's fan blog: Hawks Fans: Are you okay with the bare minimum? http://bit.ly/9l3L5v [...]

dstdeelite

July 15th, 2010
11:36 pm

ASG,

Please don’t do this trade. I cannot justify giving up a 24 year old player with potential for a 38 year old sloth who thinks he’s worth more than he really is. Other than Howard, what center in the NBA does Horford have a huge disadvantage against? Bynum? Injured most of the season…..I just really, really, really cannot not get behind this trade. If Shaq is a cancer in the locker room, I would not introduce him into an already fragile group. Is he going to be happy with a limited role? I think not. Please say no to the Shaq trade.

David k. Reed

July 15th, 2010
11:38 pm

Here is a list of the NBA players that I would like the hawks to go after in the offseason.
1. Shaq 2. Josh Howard 3. Tracy McGrady 4. Alade Aminu 5. Carmelo Anthony 6. Brad Miller 7. Scottie Reynolds 8. AJ Abrams 9. Jon Scheyer 10. Chris Paul

PD

July 16th, 2010
12:19 am

Courtney Sims should be picked he is young athletic 7 footer played for the Hawks last summer. Played overseas because he did not get any offers. Pulled down 14 rebounds in the summer league this summer with the Lakers. He is worth the look

PD

July 16th, 2010
12:21 am

@SteveW i like Shaq, 1st round Pick and Matt Barnes after a Marvin departure

PD

July 16th, 2010
12:25 am

Personally I think they should have kept Childress watch game 4 of 2008 Playoffs vs Boston. He has so many skills that Marvin lacks like athleticism, passing, rebounding, balance, footwork and a better bball IQ. Just watch that game when get a chance.

When Marvin is subbed out in the 1st quarter Chilly sparks the offense with a variety of plays. He will be sorely missed.

Oh well

vava74

July 16th, 2010
4:06 am

Beaubois’ line against Wall:

R. Beaubois G MIN15:49 FG0-3 3pt0-2 FT0-0 (+-) -17 oreb1 dreb0 treb1 ass1 fouls5 stls0 to3 bs0 ba0 pts0

Now, can everyone lay off Teague’s back on account of ONE bad game?

Or do you want to question Beaubois’ ability too?

dap01

July 16th, 2010
6:39 am

Why do we always have to pick from the bottom of the barrell? Why do other teams have a plan and they execute that plan with conviction? Why are we so indecisive? Why does it take us so long to grasp the salary cap? Why do we constantly trade assets for intangible assets that are never used (draft picks, exceptions)? How can a team that spent years in the lottery still not have a PG or center? Atleast JT has potential, we do not even have a CENTER on the whole team?

The Real Hawk

July 16th, 2010
6:53 am

Will will NOT aquire Shaq or Miller because they both cost too much in the eyes of the owners.
They will not pay the tax. They will carry the minimum number of players again next season. It is all about the money. Why else would you let Childs go for a pick that will nver see the light of a NBA day? MONEY!

The Real Hawk

July 16th, 2010
6:55 am

dap01-MONEY!

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
7:19 am

In terms of on the court, I’m not sure if Shaq would work, because there are a lot of potential issues (injuries, chemistry, over-priced). However, I think it would be a good move (if the second year is not guaranteed).

Bringing Shaq here would give us a legit big body who still gets respect from the refs, still has decent moves in the post, and he will allow Horford to spend some time at PF.

Plus he would sell extra tickets, extra jerseys, and he might even get the Hawks more games on TV. And he would help JJ’s marketability (maybe even give him a nickname).

And signing Shaq would show that the ASG are going for it (even if it doesn’t work in the long run). I’m tired of hearing about “we like our core”.

Plus we get out from 4 more years of Marvin’s salary, and we should be able to find a cheaper replacement.

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
7:52 am

Assuming the Shaq deal is not happening, I think the best pickup for the Hawks has been our assistant coach Lester Connor.

“We told them no layups,” said Lester Conner. “We told them if somebody goes by you, you are coming out of the game.”

That sounds similar to what Larry Drew said (guard your man or else). But it will be interesting to see how our vets respond to the challenge. And how do the coaches respond when the games count.

Fundamentals

July 16th, 2010
8:33 am

Amen dstdeelite. I can see O’Brien’s point about boosting sales & TV, but not at the cost of Marvin.

We need an honest, candid interview with Mike to discuss the new offense and how he thinks he can fit in. What does he think of Drew and Conner’s new defensive philosophy. Can he make the transistion to spot up shooter off the bench and help Teague thrive?

wordsmithtom

July 16th, 2010
8:55 am

While I think Shaq still can play, a swap for Marvin is shortsighted. Note the trade Braves made this week at shortstop. They swapped a younger player for an older one. However, the story was one where they got rid of a bad attitude guy. Underperformance = Marvin Bad attitude. NOT. Marvin is always on the bench rooting for his teammates. He defers too much, rather than being shelfish. Swapping him for Shaq even up would be selling the family horse for a mule with 20 year teeth.

I’m betting LD has plans for Marvin in this motion offence. MW certainly fits the run and shoot game Drew likes. If you have Teague pushing the ball and Williams, Horford and Smith running like the racehorses they are, think Boston only much younger. I like this core.

Wouldn’lt mind Shaq for the midlevel; he can still play. But for MW….JUST SAY NO

Fundamentals

July 16th, 2010
9:02 am

I still say Shaq is too slow to run with our team unless we want a snail squad for our bench = Bibby, Crawford, Mo, ZaZa and Shaq.

Marvin deserves real plays run for him. If LD can involve him and push his talent he can be sensational. He’s shown great flashes when Joe went down. He has been timid since hurting his back, but prior he was really looking up. It’s LD and Conner’s job to show they can get the most from him. I’d say at least keep him till Feb to see if we can incorperate him into a real system.

Teague couldn’t develop b/c he had 1 year with no system. Dribble it up, drop it off at 1/2 court and hide? What an awesome play to help him learn and develop.

This year should show great change if LD and Conner can push the new system. Conner for MVP with his defensive philosophy!

Melvin

July 16th, 2010
10:57 am

Doc/Manny T,

I doubt if I will see yall at the Pretzel stand this year. Especially if the Hawks doesn’t make any moves this offseason. I was contemplating on spending the 2K on the season tix package but I think I will hold off and keep my funds until I see this organization pony up to challenge the elite teams or sell out.

MannyT

July 16th, 2010
11:50 am

@Melvin…it’s still early. I expect to see you at SOME games. You can at least be a typical Hawks fan and show up when the big names come to town ;-)

I’ll be closer to the pretzel stand & mid court this year…just in the 200 level. Will move for better value!

Besides, they still have to fill out the roster and are about 5 mil short of the luxury tax. There could be a big offer to someone for Mo Evans type money :-)

Swingman912

July 16th, 2010
12:01 pm

DAL is looking to move Alexis Ajinca, the 22 y/o 7 footer that Charlotte drafted in 2008. Get him for cheap now and see if he grows into the post defender i think he could instantly be…..or watch another team do it. Seems to be the theme lately………….CHUUUUUUUUUUUUCH

doc

July 16th, 2010
12:48 pm

melvin, manny t, i still have some residual to spend. may need to find where my buddy manny t is to cont my value package as my old seats went up significantly. since the asg bill didnt go up i gotta spend the same, too. unlike northcyde who only acts like a broker telling me what i should do with my money, i got a cap too. if they do nothing i might do the pay for the best and be done with it to spend my carry over.

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
1:08 pm

Orlando is already in luxury tax, but what have they done this off-season? Sign Duhon to replace Jason Williams, signed a SF to replace Matt Barnes, and matched the 3 year $19 mil offer to JJ Redick. So their payroll is going up again.

We have been to the second round the last 2 years. I was hoping the ASG would spend a little extra to give us an extra push, and give us a chance to get to the ECF (I dont think changing coaches will be enough).

i_am_soulstar

July 16th, 2010
1:34 pm

The ASG aren’t going into the luxury tax. It’s painfully obvious that their perception of this team winning it all as currently constructed is motivated by the amount of money they keep in their pockets. If they prove me wrong, I’ll never say anything bad about these guys again. But if they’re full of feces, I wish they’d stop pedaling propaganda.

i_am_soulstar

July 16th, 2010
1:40 pm

Swingman,

I with the Ajinca move. He can be had for very cheap and would be a good 3rd string center w/ room for growth.

i_am_soulstar

July 16th, 2010
1:43 pm

Our MLE will collect dust for another year.

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
1:54 pm

I think we could have been alright with Jamal and Jordan vs signing Joe. We aren’t going to win a championship so why pay all that money for one person.

Melvin

July 16th, 2010
2:29 pm

I read yesterday on hoopshype that the Jazz are expecting to spend deeper into the luxury tax this season to upgrade their roster (i may posted the actual link later, too lazy to search for it right now). And I feel the Hawks are a better team than the Jazz with Boozer. So why why can’t the Hawks ownership have the same approach (Win Now)???

Melvin

July 16th, 2010
2:56 pm

From Kevin Durant twitter page:

Now everybody wanna play for the Heat and the Lakers? Let’s go back to being competitive and going at these peoples!

Amen, KD.

doc

July 16th, 2010
3:13 pm

melvin, it is obvious, they dont feel the love from the fans bro. heh heh.

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
3:16 pm

Bulls keep getting better. They have signed Ronnie Brewer.

Melvin,

The ASG has the same “win now” approach. Except theirs is:

1) “win now” without going into luxury tax.

2) “Win now” by changing the coach.

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
3:17 pm

3) “win now” with the same guys from last year

doc

July 16th, 2010
4:19 pm

doc

July 16th, 2010
5:00 pm

here is your free agent play

lishttp://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArkGNH89UwJH__7Ao6F9vAy8vLYF?slug=ys-nbafreeagenttracker2010

not much left,anyone see any particular bargains that might be upgrades on last year?

MannyT

July 16th, 2010
5:50 pm

@doc…some good fortune during select a seat put me in section 212 row D near midcourt. I think I’ll like it better than my old 108. I’ll miss the parking deal, but I used to pay less for a parking spot I liked better when I was in the 300 level.

…and there were a few extra characters in your link, so it didn’t activate.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArkGNH89UwJH__7Ao6F9vAy8vLYF?slug=ys-nbafreeagenttracker2010

As for the free agent wish list, I’d like a backup 3/4 guy that is stronger on D, a 5 that also leans toward D and a best player available from summer league to finish the roster.

High end of that (budget focused) list is probably Matt Barnes

The low end may look like Joey Graham.

Ex-Season Ticket Holder

July 16th, 2010
6:09 pm

It’s a given that you have to spend to win – it was not a smart move to give 100+ million to one player (Joe Johnson) that has proven he is not a superstar in the playoffs… championships are won in the playoffs and not the regular season. Joe Joe give some of that money back to help “your team” put some pieces together to be competitive in the playoffs – this feels like last summer. Everyone is putting pieces together to get better and the Hawks are just sitting back as if the team in place is going to win it all – how’s that working for you (in my Dr. Phil voice).

jj

July 16th, 2010
6:13 pm

I don’t understand or know what the vision is for this FRANCHISE but right now i’m a little let down.They talk a good game but it don’t translate into action.They blame Woody at the end but he served their purpose.That was to just win more games than they did the year before.They could have made changes years earlier but had no desire to move Woody and this Franchise is like whats been happening in the Gulf,except they have seemed to finally capped the thing,but again this FRANCHISE has been capped for years.There is help out there for the CORE but no MONY.SOS from this group.They make promises that they know they have no desire or MONY they are willing to invest into this FRANCHISE beyond what it takes to be viable.I know we the Fans will be blamed for our lack of support and there is some truth to that BUT they have not made the BIG move to make us say WOW.They can’t even sign K.Brown who would help on the boards.Darn shame………..

doc

July 16th, 2010
6:52 pm

doc

July 16th, 2010
6:54 pm

oh you already got it, heh heh

MannyT

July 16th, 2010
6:56 pm

I look out for the @doc :-)

doc

July 16th, 2010
7:03 pm

thanks manny t.

here is something interesting on how a gm has to act. for those that said ti was all about d wade convincing james to come hither think again. riles was the man here to make it happen in so many ways.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArZm5ZhTrlPvRa1S3TEtYQE5nYcB?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

proactive rather than reactive is what we see here.