Joe’s back, five questions follow

There may have been a couple of reasons for Joe Johnson to leave Atlanta, but he ended up with around 119 million reasons to stay. Many are unhappy with the size of the contract, but the Hawks only had two choices, really. Either pay your only established star player, or go in another direction with less overall talent. The Hawks knew it. Joe and his agent knew it.  Then again, how many choices did Joe really have, that he would have been happy with? What if the Hawks hadn’t offered him the max? Where would he have gone, and been comfortable? Personally, I think it was posturing more than anything else. After all, Joe would have been second fiddle almost anywhere else he could have gone, his destiny partially (and maybe largely) dependant on somebody else. A co-star at best, and paid like one. Were there any contract offers made by other teams, or did they talk more about signing him and then getting him to recruit somebody else?  Considering things like that, it’s probably no small wonder that Joe jumped on the Hawks’ contract offer within a day or two of it being made.

We could debate the merits of what the Hawks have done with this max contract, and we probably will to an extent. But let’s examine some issues and questions that must follow his signing. As these questions won’t cover all topics on the table, do feel free to add your own.

 

 

 

1) Can Larry Drew get more out of Joe Johnson?

Maybe we’re not looking for merely “more” as much as we are “better.” Joe has proven to be a 20 ppg scorer from one season to the next, but a combination of talent and being your team’s #1 offensive option gets a lot of guys to that level. Keeping that level of performance is no mean feat, however, when defenses key on you. And despite the fact that having the ball in your hands all the time helps you to 5 assists per game, you can’t get there without the ability to make good passes. Joe gives you 20, 5, and 5 every season, but the Hawks can do better things with him. What Larry Drew and the Hawks need, is to find a way to get Joe back to the form he had in 2004-2005 with Phoenix, or his 2006-2007 season with the Hawks. In other words, put him in a position to take better advantage of the shots he gets, so he can shoot a higher percentage. If Joe shoots around 47% from the field and at least 38% from 3-point territory, watch out. We’re talking closer to 25 points per game, with even more 30+ point outbursts.  If this works out, look for it to carry into the postseason as well.

2) Is Joe serious about recruiting?

Arn Tellem is a sports agent, which puts him right up there (or down there, depending on how you view it) with politicians. His suggestion that Joe is going to recruit for the team is…well…I don’t know what word should be used here. I never knew Joe cared that much, and the idea of him helping to snag Lebron is a joke, in my mind. Who has he recruited before? Who does he talk to? With a payroll ready to burst at the seams, what’s his pitch going to be? I’m having a hard time going for this one. Not necessarily because of Joe himself, but because of where the words came from. Does Joe even know who the Hawks might be targeting, and does he agree with the acquisition of such players? Does a max contract deal include provisions for recruiting and influencing decision-making processes (I thought they hired some guy named Bob to handle personnel stuff)? I can see Kobe with that kind of pull. Lebron, definitely. Wade, even. But Joe? Maybe he’s been tabbed as Hawks pitch-man to whomever they decide to try and sign, as part of his bangin’ new contract (insert mildly sarcastic tone here). Should we even take this seriously? Maybe we shouldn’t give this another thought until we hear something from Joe’s mouth.

 

3) What about those chemistry issues?

Love conquers all. Oops, maybe that’s supposed to be money.

If I’m Joe, and there are real, live issues in the locker room, I’d be on the phone discussing that with Larry Drew. Better yet, make it a “dinner date.” Then, I’d be on the phone with my teammates. Joe is getting paid like a mega-superstar and he is the team captain. Forget recruiting, how about reinforcing the idea of buying into whatever it is that Larry Drew is selling? How about helping to forge the team into a more serious, hard-working unit? How about working with guys like Al Horford to cultivate a winning atmosphere, rather than one where serious adversity results complete implosion? Sure, this is going to be Larry Drew’s job, but team leaders have to take on a role. Joe need not be the guy sounding the rallying cry on the court, or the fist-pumping and chest-thumping rah-rah type. But he does need to be a steadying, polarizing force. Help get the guys to work hard and serious in practice, everybody already knows how to have fun and act up. Help guys to stay focused in the locker room and in the huddle. Do the behind-the-scenes glue work. Isn’t that what “quiet” guys do?

 

4) Can Marvin Williams be salveaged?

Big question. Sund and Drew have to think hard on this, because there may be a deal right around the corner where Williams would have to be involved. Can Drew turn Williams into a viable offensive option? Some say Marvin’s problems begin and end with former coach Mike Woodson. Others say that he has never had the talent to be effective. Both lines of thinking tend to be on the far end of either spectrum, and neither has anything to do with his rebounding and defensive production. It does bear noting, however, that Marvin’s shot attempts have declined since the ‘07-’08 season. And before you say it, yes, he had more shot attempts this past season (664) than he did in ‘08-’09 (622). But you would be forgetting something. Marvin played in 81 games last season, as opposed to just 61 in the season prior to that. His shot attempts per game went down by 2 per game from ‘08-’09 to ‘09-’10. Still, this doesn’t explain his frequent hesitation to drive the ball without an open lane, his awkward angles to the basket, or his pedestrian shooting from the arc. Can Marvin remain a viable part of the core of this team, or is it time to move on? Any deals that come to the table involving a bigger player to help Al Horford in the post may only serve to complicate things.

 

5) What will happen with Josh Childress?

The Hawks lost Childress’ services for two years straight, but now he wants to come back to the NBA. Or so it’s being reported. Count me among those who think Childress won’t wear a Hawks uniform again in this lifetime, but I could be wrong. There have been reports that the Wizards and other teams are interested in him. Should the Hawks try to bring him back to the fold, or should they try to move him for other players/assets? When he was here, Childress was the perfect glue guy on the court by playing smart and hustling all the time. No doubt the Hawks could use that now. However, he may want to ply his trade elsewhere. With Joe back in the fold, the Hawks should be able to get moving on this front, and see how they can make it work for them. As unlikely as it may or may not be, Childress could come back and play for the one year qualifier of $4.8 million, just to get his foot back into the NBA door. Or, the Hawks could find a way to peddle him off for something else.

 

Summer is in full swing.

219 comments Add your comment

lou

July 5th, 2010
11:21 am

you spelled salvage wrong..

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Al Horford Fans. Al Horford Fans said: RT @ajchawks: AJC's fan blog: Joe’s back, five questions follow http://bit.ly/baTRp5 [...]

JSS

July 5th, 2010
11:57 am

Questions 3,4, and 5, the rest are just points of contention. But especially numbers 4 and 5, Marvin and Chillz and I don’t care if he pulls a Truck Robinson and gives his best for one season!

Melvin

July 5th, 2010
12:14 pm

Nire

“Marvin= underachiever with unfulfilled potential. Chillz= overachiever with significant holes in his game. If we trade Marvin and bring back Chillz as a starter, it won’t be long before we are looking for a SF.”

I think Chillz is a utility player. Jack of all trades but master of none. What makes him an overachiever is that he’s play the game within his abilities and stay in within his strong areas. Baseline to baseline and slashing to the rim….

Austin

July 5th, 2010
12:19 pm

Ray,
Do you think moving Marvin for a big would make sense? Or packaging chills and Marvin for a big? What are your thoughts?

bg3003

July 5th, 2010
12:53 pm

JJ recruiting? lol im as confused as you are, who is he going to bring in? probably a nobody

steve brown

July 5th, 2010
1:10 pm

Looks like I was wrong on a Joe Johnson sign and trade. Now go ahead and trade Jamal (Just kidding).

tjhook

July 5th, 2010
1:27 pm

What Coach Drew should do with Joe is send him to some leadership camps with other CEO because the paycheck has made him the Hawks’ chief executive officer by default. That check is not about what he has done, but what he is about to do. Hawks fans will not have tolerance for a player who flirted with other teams to get the ultimate paycheck. Joe got a max contract, now he needs to max out his experience with the Hawks. If he needs an example to go by, look at Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobelli of the Spurs.

i_am_soulstar

July 5th, 2010
1:55 pm

With the addition of Jamal and the improvement of Al Horford’s jump shot, Marvin’s role changed from third offensive option to utility guy, and he had a tough time adjusting. Happens to folks in different professions all the time.

Now I think that for what the small forward role has changed into, Josh Childress would be better suited than Marvin. So if Joe Johnson is in fact recruiting, his first phone call should be to Childress. I’m pretty sure that a sincere effort by management and the team captain could convince Childress to want to play for the Hawks again.

It’s a stretch for me to believe he’s seriously recruiting top free-agents, but I don’t think it’s too far-fetched that he can reel in one that’s recently strayed from the herd.

J

July 5th, 2010
2:09 pm

Marvin can’t even salvage himself. No passion, no fire. Just his duck-face for 48 minutes. Didn’t yall see that article where he was just happy about winning? So if he can basically be the 6th option with the team doing well he’s content.

doc

July 5th, 2010
2:29 pm

nice ray, if jj can help with this is what i would like and fairly reasonable based on the background noise heard thus far.

ok best scenario, id favor sending marvin to the warriors for beidrens and to sign over chills for henrich, then get a big for the mle and a smaller big with some change left over. i think salaries would match for the trades is my guess though it may not based on the language for sign and trades. i dont know if they are equal dollar for dollar or are based on some formula which puts us at a disadvantage. it may. all positions would be covered if jj pays more three and mo is the back up. the hawks would be in luxury tax land which they have been adverse to considering but that is where most teams are that seriously challenge for championships go. pretenders do less and spend less. additionally, might need to consider another vet for sf just in case.

newkid

July 5th, 2010
3:07 pm

For Joe this is potentially an opportunity to almost completely reset his image in the minds of many Hawks fans, and perhaps his teammates as well. Not sure how active he might have been in recruiting other players here in years past, but if he follows through on his recently avowed interest in doing so, and a major piece elects to sign – or be traded here – due to Joe’s influence, then his cache immediately jumps to untold heights. If I were a teammate, with that sort of recruitment success, I suspect my respect and admiration for him would leap forward. I’d be more inclined to defer to him both on and off the court, especially if it became apparent that the major additional piece was the missing link between a continued playoff mediocrity and deep playoff runs.

This is perhaps his opportunity to command the position of the unquestioned ‘leader’ of the Hawks, but he’ll need the cooperation of that ‘major’ piece and a willing & creative front office. He’ll also need to be predisposed to actively taking the leadership mantel once it’s presentated to him. Has he got the juice amongst his peers to be that magnet? If so, will he grow a pair of lungs and provide the vocal leadership that’s so sorely missing? I’m on record as putting him down as a perennial follower whose voice his house pet is not even inclined to heed; sure hope I’m wrong. Seize the time JJ.

BurbankDawg

July 5th, 2010
3:09 pm

Please trade Marvin! I don’t care if he turns into an All-Star somewhere else–he will never flourish as a Hawk! Trade him while he’s young and healthy!

Sautee

July 5th, 2010
3:30 pm

lou,

You failed to begin your sentence with a capital Y.

You also had two periods at the end of your sentence. ;-)

MannyT

July 5th, 2010
3:52 pm

1. If Drew gets more out of the group, then he’s done a good job. I don’t care if that means more Joe, less Joe, or no Joe…it’s all about results in terms of wins…probably in the playoffs.

2. I think Joe wants to be serious about getting some help in here. He knows he cannot pull this team to new heights by himself.

3. One of the easiest ways to change chemistry is to change players. I’d put this one on Sund to help Drew. Not saying that someone needs to go, but if you improve the team and its chemistry via a trade or two, do it.

4. Marvin can be more useful in a more collaborative offense. His defense is ok given what was asked of him. If Drew’s magic playbook makes Marvin better, that is great. Otherwise, you are still a year or two away from moving his contract for value. Hang on to him unless a magic beans deal is in the pipeline.

5. WILDCARD. I doubt Chills wants to play here, but I think he will play here for a 1 yr deal to be unrestricted or if the Hawks match a good offer. He’s the type of player that makes a team better w/o demanding the ball. He has developed something while in Greece. Those additional skills may help…a team that plays more of a Euro style. What can you get from the Spurs or the Raptors for him?

Melvin

July 5th, 2010
3:58 pm

Watching the Orlando Summer League games. I’m glad the Hawks didnt pick Daniel Orton out of Uk. He looks terrible… Paul George and Lance Stephenson for the Pacers looks good…

O'Brien

July 5th, 2010
4:29 pm

1) With Drew’s player interaction, I think he will get more out of the players. And with more ball movement, hopefully Joe will get some easier looks, which will lead to better efficiency. And if he can get another 2-4 FT attempts per game, watch out.

2) Players want to get paid, and all we have is the mid-level and the bi-annual. So how does Joe recruit players to come here? Tell them to take less money? Something that he didn’t do…

3) I think sharing the ball and player accountability will improve chemistry.

4) and 5) In a perfect world, we would pay Marvin $5 mil, and Chills $5 mil. And we would play each of them 24 mpg. But given Marvin’s salary, we can’t afford Chills, because there are cheaper options available.

Consequently, our best moves will be via trades IMO.

Doc,

I like the Marvin for Biedrins trade. I’m also willing to throw in Mo Evans if they give us Anthony Randolph.

doc

July 5th, 2010
5:02 pm

it is a problem in getting rid of marvin as you almost have to put jj in that position for extended minutes if there is no chills as there is no other guy to play there besides mo. i dont know too much about rudolph to comment on his fit to replace both guys. that would be a tall order for him to pull the load for both guys and i imagine the warriors dont need two sf though we could probably use losing two for the right players. i actually think it would possibly benefit jj to play three long term, dont know if he is ready for that.

Marcus

July 5th, 2010
5:12 pm

Good questions: JJ can directly control items 1 and 3 … but can influence (by his own behaviour) #4 to support Marvin if he is still here. 2 and 5 are more ASG/money issues. Out of all of them, I would luv # 2 to be a serious factor, but unless JJ donates some of his new-found money to help. it is probably more propaganda.

Soulja Boy Tellem

July 5th, 2010
5:17 pm

Watch me crank dat, watch me roll.

Mitun

July 5th, 2010
5:19 pm

why not get Bedrins and Ellis from GS for Marvin, Chills and Mo

i_am_soulstar

July 5th, 2010
5:21 pm

Melvin,

I was just about to say, it’s his first game, but Daniel Orton has played like crap

The Real Hawk

July 5th, 2010
5:27 pm

What would make anyone think the only team that decided to have the league minimum team last year would actually go over the luxury tax?
Unless the rumor is true that the owners will sell the Thrashers.

The Real Hawk

July 5th, 2010
5:27 pm

Why would anyone take Marvin the terrible.?

doc

July 5th, 2010
5:36 pm

mitun, that is what i almost suggested but it is so one sided it ranks up there with larceny at worst fantasy league basketball at the least. i dont think anyone here would turn that one down. send josh to minny for al jefferson then deal bibby and chills to the wiz for hinrich and a sf and we have rebuilt around the core and adressed many of the issues, no? maybe deal jamal for a rugged defender type sf, even better. again fantasy, short of suggesting maybe add shaq at the mle. yeah, that is the ticket.

doc

July 5th, 2010
5:40 pm

actually wouldnt throw chills to the warriors may need to send bibby which then i cant deal to the wiz so we dont get a sf except through the 2 mil extra we can spend after the mle. my fantasy got too carried away there.

Fundamentals

July 5th, 2010
5:54 pm

Doc, not sure Al Jefferson is big enough, not opposed to trading Bibby & Chills, who can we get for Jamal?

SAY NO TO SHAQ

Astro Joe

July 5th, 2010
5:58 pm

55+ wins are in the bag, addition by subtraction with Woody gone and Drew in. Even with a few injuries, the bench will be so much ore prepared to handle injuries that there should be nothing to stop them from 55 wins.

Obviously, Joe won’t be onvincing any big-time free agent to take a 67% pay cut. But maybe he could convince guys to accept the MLE. I think it is a safe assumption that one of the selling points the ASG used on Joe is that they wouldn’t stop by simply bringing back the identical team. So they have Joe convinced they will spend more, which naturally, has Joe thinking that he should be in recruiting mode. I recall that BK used a similar approach on Joe some 5 years ago… and how many FAs were signed over that period of time?

We’ll see what happens next. It may be good to see which FAs are represented by Tellum as a good place to start the speculation.

vava74

July 5th, 2010
6:00 pm

Mo can play the SG slot at a very good level and JJ would be an excellent point forward with chills and crawford off the bench

Fundamentals

July 5th, 2010
6:01 pm

Nice point Astro – who does Tellum represent that could sign our two spots or force a trade?

Fundamentals

July 5th, 2010
6:03 pm

Here’s the list – headed by Shelden Williams! HOORAY!!!! Sorry Astro, now to be serious there are some nice prospects here:

http://hoopshype.com/agents/arn_tellem.htm

Astro Joe

July 5th, 2010
6:03 pm

Melvin, I thought you liked those high risk/high reward players?

kwooden1

July 5th, 2010
6:24 pm

Ray nice blog

1) I’m not holding my breath. JJ is going to be under a lot of pressure, so if he continues his normal production I will be happy

2) I don’t know how much JJ can really help. I think the ASG giving him the max was the best thing for recruiting.

3) I think the saying “Chemistry Issues” is another way of saying we didn’t know what we were doing on offensive. I think the coach/system can solve the “Chemistry” issues. I never hear the Jazz talking about Chemistry problems, they just say they didn’t run the offensive or didn’t play good defensive.

4) I like Marvin, but with JJ’s big contract we have to make moves now. Marvin is the odd man out so I think he’s got to be used in a S&T.

5) I would like to have Chills. Hopefully he can fill the Marvin’s spot if we can use Marvin as part of a S&T for a quality big.

I’m looking to get Jermaine O’Neal, opposed to Shaq O’Neal. I like Jermaine’s offensive and length over Shaq’s bulk.

Big Ray

July 5th, 2010
6:32 pm

JSS ,

I’d say any questions constitutes a point of contention on a blog. I guess it all depends on your viewpoint, though. But you left us hangin’. What’s your view on questions 3, 4, and 5?

Austin ,

Yes, I think trading Marvin (and Mike Bibby) for a big man makes sense if said big man fits the scheme and the team. However, I would not do such a trade without following it up with the acquisition of another point guard. Preferably a veteran, but not an “old” veteran whose ability to contribute is very nearly at its end. Trading Marvin is a gamble, but I feel it’s far less so than before. Reason being, he’s going into year six with “unfulfilled potential” despite being on the same team. Can’t blame ALL of that on his former coach, either. By now, it doesn’t look like the potential that we once thought was there, exists. So, it wouldn’t be hard to replace his production at the 3 spot, and there is less use for a big, long SF, if you have the addes size you were looking to compensate for at the 5 spot.

doc

July 5th, 2010
6:33 pm

fundamental i hear you, but al j is about all out there to get when folks talk about getting a center to replace al h with. so i keep bringing his name up to only get shot down within minutes of making the post. ;-) kind of proves a point doesnt it?

as for josh to minny, well it is close to chicago isnt it? kinda?

Big Ray

July 5th, 2010
6:36 pm

Steve brown ,

Somehow I know you’re going to blame me if Jamal gets traded, LOL.

Doc ,

Sounds like a plan to me. I think that would be money well spent. And your point is taken: contenders spend, pretenders don’t. The only partial exception is when you draft well, which saves you money at least in the short term.

O'Brien

July 5th, 2010
6:37 pm

Doc,

Mo Evans is not a SF. He is best suited to play SG

doc

July 5th, 2010
6:50 pm

1. more efficiency maybe but how can you drive him any harder to get more out of him than the past few years?

2. no, not enough cred or clout

3. i think drew is the man for the job, trades before the season might help. then again sometimes it hurts to ask what you ask for.

4. marvin may be gone is my hope. best for him with the caveat we get back something of quality like a starter. otherwise he has to be allowed to pass/fail for his new coach.

5. we need to get something for him if he elects to come back. he has a lot of control still. he is probably weighing his market value now, maybe strike when the iron is hot. he has leverage at this point with the deal to go back if he wants, ability ot look at how the possible lock out affects him if at all, see who the possible suitors are, etc. for us the best scenario is a sign and trade for a top 7 player that can fit in and be an impact guy here.

there you go ray. did i pass?

doc

July 5th, 2010
6:51 pm

o’b you and i know that but he still has been the back up at three while he has been here. dont you remember mo was the heralded replacement for chills?

Big Ray

July 5th, 2010
6:53 pm

Sautee

Thanks! ;)

MannyT ,

Very good points. As much as I don’t see Chills in a Hawks uni, I DO see him playing here for the qualifier for a year if that’s what it takes to get his foot back in the door (as stated in the blog). I don’t know about Marvin, though. Really a question mark at this point, but it doesn’t kill us to hang onto him. However, if it brings us an effective big man, I’m all over a trade. I understand what you’re saying about moving his contract for value, though.

Astro Joe ,

55 wins? Or are you being precocious? To be honest, I’d take fewer wins (though not TOO many) for a team that’s tougher, more cohesive, and more succesful in the postseason. I recall these guys that won 50 games this past season, but ended up in the Finals. Of course, they did have more good players than we did, and a deeper bench. But how else do you explain winning fewer games than us, but soundly beating the team we couldn’t compete with?

Big Ray

July 5th, 2010
7:04 pm

Doc ,

Those answers are good enough for me, bro’. As far as JJ goes, I’m looking for more quality, not so much quantity. Hence, the mention of shooting percentage. I still think one of JJ’s best seasons in his career was his last one with Phoenix. Sure, he averaged just 17.1 ppg, but he shot 46% from the field, and 48% from the arc, and hit his career high for 3-pointers in a season. That’s the kind of shooting I’d like to see out of him, though I realize the 3-point shooting was due to him being open, and we won’t likely see that out of him again.

Again, efficiency to go with the current production (or maybe a bit more) is fine with me. Besides, why not get a bit more out of him? He’s getting PLENTY more out of that new contract…

doc

July 5th, 2010
7:04 pm

ray do you think astro is tongue in cheek setting drew up for the fall if they dont get more wins than his guy woody who achieved it under perfect circumstances before it got ugly?

doc

July 5th, 2010
7:05 pm

@ray….. heh heh

Big Ray

July 5th, 2010
7:08 pm

kwooden1,

I hear ya. And I want no parts of Shaq. Jermaine? Certainly, why not roll the dice. As for Joe, he came here to be the man. Same production is okay, but better efficiency is paramount. Enter Larry Drew….

Big Ray

July 5th, 2010
7:09 pm

Doc ,

:lol: I’m gonna leave that alone, but yes, we do know our friend well.

doc

July 5th, 2010
7:54 pm

you know ray i think astro would rather be wrong to be right on this one. ;-)

O'Brien

July 5th, 2010
7:58 pm

Jermaine O’neal’s agent is Arn Tellem, who also happens to be JJ’s agent. I wonder if that increases our chances of getting him for the mid-level (if Sund is interested).

Even if we were to get JO though, I think Rick still needs to make some trades, because we have too many SGs, and a deficiency at SF.

Could ZaZa be an effective backup PF?

Fundamentals

July 5th, 2010
8:16 pm

Doc, I’m not down on Jefferson. I think he has a place on a decent team. I just wouldn’t give up Josh for him. I would give up some combination of Marvin, Bibby, Mo, Chills and ZaZa to see Jefferson and one of MN good guards. They’ll have Rubio coming over this year? That’ll give them too many PG’s? JO at backup with the midlevel might be attractive for the Hawks and JO? We wouldn’t need him for tremendous minutes. Use him a bit more than we did Joe Smith to protect him for the playoffs and then use him as the piece to help us succeed in the post season.

What kind of offers will Tayshaun Prince get this summer? Does Drew have ties back to Detroit like Woody?

Fundamentals

July 5th, 2010
8:28 pm

niremetal

July 5th, 2010
10:20 pm

Shaq? Oh man…I think I’m gonna need to go back to taking percocet if that happens…

Astro Joe

July 5th, 2010
10:24 pm

doc and Ray, so if you replace the head coach and essentially keep the players the same, are you supposed to expect the status quo? I suggested 2 more wins. 2. Surely, you don’t replace a head coach and expexct less than 2 more wins, right? Would I take less regular season wins and a better showing in the post-season? Will the blog world wait 82+ games before drawing an opinion on Drew’s effectiveness?

Ray, championship experience is how I would explain what Boston did. Those guys never doubted themselves when faced with adversity. I think we saw the Hawks, Cavs and Magic shrink when they were placed under the bright lights in the playoffs.

niremetal

July 5th, 2010
10:54 pm

Funny how Astro always forgets the small detail that NO ONE GOT HURT LAST YEAR. That had nothing at all to do with the Hawks’ win total, I’m sure.

kwooden1

July 5th, 2010
11:03 pm

Ray I understand what your saying about JJ and I agree. I think he can do that by getting to the line more, and getting more assists out of our offensive.

I saw that news about Shaq and I’m still more interested in getting J. O’Neal. I think his offensive is better and the games he played against Orlando, he held his own against Howard. (Miami always played Orlando tough) I think it will be a hard sell to get Jermaine to switch teams in division, but that is what free agency is all about. O’brien I think we’ll have to give Jermaine more that just the MLE to get him to leave Miami, that is why I suggested a trade with an under the cap team.

Nice to see the ATL in the FA hunt!

GO HAWKS

Melvin

July 5th, 2010
11:08 pm

Doc,

If all you can get for Josh is Jefferson than the Hawks should pass. Jefferson stock couldn’t be any lower at this point and Josh stock is probably sky high. I think Josh would start at PF for at aleast 75% of teams in the league. That move would be up their with the Nique trade. Jefferson numbers look good but he’s one of those guys who put up good numbers on bad teams. See Zach Randolph. Besides he and Horford do not compliment each other. Both guys occupy the same areas on the court and neither are true centers. Horford is more of a center than Jefferson and Jefferson couldnt guard his shadow on defense….

niremetal

July 6th, 2010
12:26 am

If all you can get for Josh is Jefferson than the Hawks should pass. Jefferson stock couldn’t be any lower at this point and Josh stock is probably sky high.

I might be misremembering that lecture in ECON-101, but isn’t buying low and selling high the goal?

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
12:45 am

Nire,

How would trading Al who makes more money than Josh would be buying low?

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
1:02 am

*trading for Al Jefferson

Alexander

July 6th, 2010
1:13 am

The Hawks are a joke and will never be a serious contender with moves like this. Paying Joe Johnson $109 million is just crazy. Needless to say I won’t be paying to see a single game.

doc

July 6th, 2010
9:01 am

quite a night of hoopla over at the other blog with the news of the shaq attack or sighting. i love shaq, always will and probably would like the idea of shaq at the appropriate price for the appropriate reasons with shaq ready to play a different role in his career rather than the free wheeling dealing shaq of old. just doubt it. so, i have 2 questions which would be easy for most here to answer?

who here really think shaq is going to stoop to pick up a MLE? raise your hand.

has his stock dropped that much?

those two kind of simplify the discussion, dont they?

MC has big doubts on shaq which is unusual as he usually holds his opinions close to his vest. i see similar probs unless drew has a real strong hand and a relationship with shaq already, does he? i know drew has some lakers days, were they with shaq? can he convince shaq to be the elder statesman and teach and support the continued growth of these guys or does shaq become an albatross like he did in phoenix who clearly became better without shaq?

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
9:23 am

If MC said that the guys need an AlonzoMourning type to help them get more serious (especially in practice) then I find it hard to believe that Shaq will be the voice demanding that guys start paying attention to the details. But as I mentioned on the previous blog, if this is about generating revenue AND fan interest, then I can’t knock the hustle. No doubt, the ASG will surely be able to pay Shaq’s salary from ticket sales alone.

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
9:24 am

Sekou interview from this morning… he discusses Joe’s deal and Shaq in the ATL.

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
9:27 am

nire, funny how you seemed to suggest that Gardner, Hunter and RandMo would have made a fine bench had they been developed properly. Something about an “epic collapse” as I recall.

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
9:29 am

kwooden, I agree, I’d rather have JON than Shaq.

doc

July 6th, 2010
9:48 am

shaq has been more productive the last two years than JON, who has had a hard time standing. why would you want him or is my impression misleading me. i doubt JON brings more minute per minute than zaza. shaq and the cavs were on a roll until his injury and very little was said about a problem with team chemistry all season in cav land. they were saying it was best ever and everyone was loose and playing at a win clip better than anyone other team. then came the hand injury, moving the the big i and inserting a 6 ft 9 pf in the center slot while bringing in jamison. they then tried to repair the damage in two games before the playoffs. so what went wrong? that was not shaq’s problem there. so why is shaq not capable of bring in something similar here if he accepts his role and MLE which he has to to play here? the last sentence almost makes it impossible to improbable that he appear here.

the nets or knicks will fill his coffers for fans if nothing else at whatever he wants when they end up without the guy they wanted. cuban will go after him or the bulls to support their big boys. look and follow the money if you want to see where shaq goes. just like anyone else who has the money to sppend? just not here is my guess based on the astro rule. we dont have the money needed to spend or we better get him now before the bidders come if we really want him. ultimately he goes to the best market for visibility and income, shaq rules.

niremetal

July 6th, 2010
10:06 am

Melvin,

Check the part of your post that I quoted. I would wager that Josh’s stock won’t get any higher than it is now. That’s the time to trade him, because that’s the time you can get the most for him. Having low and high “stock,” which was YOUR analogy and not mine, is different than salary. Why you changed the subject to salaries is beyond me, especially considering that I directly quoted you.

Astro,

Wow, way to fail to respond to my post. As always. My point was that Woody only obtained 53 wins because no one ever got hurt. Why change the subject to the usage/development of the bench (which is a separate subject, though also one that reflects poorly on Woody)? Oh wait, my bad. I forgot. This is you we’re talking about. The next time you respond directly to something inconvenient to your argument will be the first, and probably a sign of an imminent apocalypse.

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
10:09 am

Well, we can strike Chris Duhon off our wish list…

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5357340

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
10:14 am

Nire,

My point is, if Josh stock is high then why would you trade him for Al Jefferson? He’s overrated and does not compliment Horford. Besides, the Timberwolves can’t even give him away right now b/c of his terrible contract. Like Sekou said, Hawks has develop Josh and the next 3 or 4 years should be his best…

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
10:24 am

nire, let’s do the math. 53 wins with an incompetent coach and incredible health. How many with incredible health and a competent coach? 58? OK, so how many games would be won with average health and a competent coach? Maybe 52? So the range becomes 52-58? And I stated 55 above? Seems like that is within the range to me.

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
10:27 am

Melvin, obviously Duhon is going to be the 2nd sting PG at almost $4M/year. I suspect that our 3rd string PG (if we have one) will make less than $1M. Travis Deiner?

O'Brien

July 6th, 2010
10:30 am

If you’re Shaq, why would you sign with the Hawks, unless nobody else is interested. And the rumor is Boston and Dallas are also interested.

The Celtics could be w/o Perkins until later in the year, so Shaq would probably start for the first few weeks of the season. The Mavs are also a better team, and players like playing for Mark Cuban.

If Shaq waits around, maybe Houston will come calling (to backup Yao), maybe the Nets will change their mind and give him a look, maybe Cleveland will take him back if LbJ resigns, and if he goes back to Cleveland, they can pay him more money. He wil have lots of options

Either way, I think he will take his own sweet time (like Joe Smith did last year) to make a decision.
And I don’t want the Hawks to wait around for him while other players are being taken off the market.

AJ,

It’s tough to look at it like that, because other teams will not be the same as last year (some will be better, some will be worse). So just because we may have won 4 against the Wizards last year (for example), we could easily lose 2 or 3 games to them this year.

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
10:36 am

OB, so you’re saying that no one will be making pre-season predictions on wins this year? BS! Every new coach has a baseline… typically improve on last year’s performance. Drew knows that and said as much when he was hired. Obviously, there are a myriad of variables that will affect the ultimate outcome (Wizards may be better but someone else will be worse). If you’re not expecting more, then why make a change? If we sign Shaq, don’t we expect more out of the C position? Do we factor in injuries, better C play across the league, adjustments to new teammates, blah, blah, blah? Or do we say “every change is supposed to be geared to make us at least 1 game better”?

MannyT

July 6th, 2010
10:44 am

Similar to this blog–styles make fights.

In this context, it’s tricky and premature to estimate wins until you know what the rosters look like. If some of these major free agents drift to the Western conference, the Hawks look stronger. If the big free agent migration is to the East, it is harder on the Hawks. However, if the power concentrates on a few teams, that is better for the Hawks record, but worse for their playoff chances.

The 2010-11 record is a wild guess that has less to do with the coach & more about roster adjustments in the top 8 slots. Until this settles in August…it’s just show.

Speaking of show, WWE @ Philips t’night..bruthaaaaaaa

MannyT

July 6th, 2010
10:49 am

Given the current list of possibilities, I think Shaq goes to Dallas.

They would probably pay him above MLE if they can S&T.
They wouldn’t need him to be an everyday player with Haywood or Dampier starting.
They have a team that could compete for a championship.
There is enough marketing space there for Shaq to get his desired level of attention.

vava74

July 6th, 2010
10:58 am

I am still rubbing my eyes… I agree with Mark Bradley’s blog on Shaq? Shall I leave a commentary acknowledging something I never thought I would have to do or… shall consider this is just a fluke ocurrence?

doc

July 6th, 2010
11:01 am

is wimbledon over?

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
11:01 am

Manny, fair enough. Although if we choose to believe the reports, the ASG is looking to improve the team and won’t be engaging in “non-basketball” transactions. So moving a member of the core will be done to acquire another asset and not as a salary dump. Again, the changes are to support improvement and not to stay still. If you give a lawyer a better paralegal, you should expect more wins (or billable hours).

niremetal

July 6th, 2010
11:06 am

OK, so how many games would be won with average health and a competent coach? Maybe 52?

Really, Astro? You think that average health instead of near-perfect health would have only made a 1-game difference? Are you f*cking kidding?

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
11:11 am

nire, it says WITH a competent coach. Read again. Two variables, son. Two.

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
11:15 am

INcompetent/Woody + perfect health = 53 wins
Competent coach/Drew + perfect health = 58 wins
Competent coach/Drew + AVG health = 52 wins
Or said differently for the math imparied…
Competent coach/Drew – perfect health = 6 fewer wins

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
11:18 am

Where did I get the 6 for the perfect health from average health? 47 wins in ‘08-09 with Al, Marvin and Josh each missing 10+ games. And those guys played virtually the entire season last year and we won 6 more wins. So since that was done EXCLUSIVELY because of health, we have 6 wins. Seems at least like a reasonable baseline.

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
11:20 am

… we won 6 more games…

doc

July 6th, 2010
11:32 am

astro forgot a variable. was it convenient or because he thought so poorly of it? … jamal crawford. wasnt he the 6th man of the year? so can i add that to the mix if there are more injuries from your 47 games. he was worth what 4 to 6 himself as he brought this team back on his shoulders at least that many times. will he come close to what he did last year? how does that one variable work out?

it is way to early anyway to project wins as the league is still undergoing change beyond what we have done. your math cant account for all of that unless you got some kind of einstein genius formula to bring forward astro.

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
11:43 am

doc, my Einstein formula is you make a change to get better. And better should translate into wins, not where Josh Smith is positioned on the floor. We’re past the days of changing coaches in conjunction with rebuilding. And again, Drew said as much after he was hired… maybe it would make people ffel better to quantify Woody’s incompetence… as there never seemed to be any resistance to the universal truth of his ineffectiveness. So how many losses were incurred because of our idoiot coach?

MannyT

July 6th, 2010
11:50 am

If you give a lawyer a better paralegal, you get more billable hours if the paralegal works quicker. If the hours are the same, but the quality of work is better, there are no more billable hours.

If the lawyer goes up against better competition, there might not be more wins, but more visibility. (Think about all the folks that were involved in the first OJ trial. The average person probably had not heard of most of them. After the case, many of them were household names–even those that lost.)

More visibility probably led to more revenue opportunities.

Getting back to the basketball point, the Hawks could make moves to get better. If their regular competition gets significantly better, their wins may not go up. The Hawks will play 52 games vs East and 30 vs West. If the East gets better, there is no guarantee of increased wins.

Even in the effort to get better, it is a guess. Health/injuries, team chemistry, and luck can make a difference. I am not trying to give LD an out, but I do believe you need to see how the rosters shake out before the expectation game on the record makes any sense.

One easy example from this past season–the Cavs got Shaq to help them with Dwight Howard. It worked in the regular season, but seeding (and Boston) removed that matchup as a factor in getting to the finals. Cleveland did worse in the 2009-10 regular season than the 2008-09 regular season. They still had the most wins, but not as many as the year before even after making moves to improve their team.

…and your win improvement based on health seems to have ignored the blog reknown organic growth hmmm… ;-)

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
12:02 pm

Manny I hear you and I hear doc. And the two of you were certainly not the ones who were so emphatically stating that the Hawks won last year in spite of their coach. I just don’t see how you can have it both ways. Health was strong, coaching was bad. So if the roster stays largely in tact, with a better coach, then you isolate the remianing variable, which is health. Obviously, there are several other variables that will be used AFTER the fact. Heck, there could be a series of blockbuster trades in February that significantly change the “market conditions”. Some player could be accused of dating a teammate’s mother, and that could have an adverse affect on team chemistry. Zaza may retire mid-season to grow his restaurant business. The list is countless. But all things being equal, you change coaches for one basic reason… to get better. Therefore, the starting point seemingly must be 57 wins over the regular season and 2 rounds of the playoffs.

MannyT

July 6th, 2010
12:08 pm

Or you change coaches for the same reason Mario won’t be on the team this year. Management does not deem him to be worth the raise he was due to get.

O'Brien

July 6th, 2010
12:17 pm

For me, what I will be looking for, is not necessarily an increase in regular season wins. What I am looking for is how do we compete (even in the losses), and how do we perform in the playoffs.

Because if we only win 49 games in the regular season, but finish as the fourth seed, win our first round matchup 4-2, and then lose in the second round 4-2, that will be an improvement to me.

Boston only won 50 games, but they made the NBA finals. Dallas had 55 wins, but they lost in the first round.

chuckw/deadjournalist

July 6th, 2010
12:22 pm

given the option, i’d rather have brad miller than shaq. and that is not to say that i’d want brad miller. it is good and fine to add another big; but frankly, it isn’t this teams biggest need.

to me, it’s the parameter defense that needs addressing. other than howard, there isn’t a big man in the east worth his weight in salt (maybe bogat, maybe). and the “bigs” that are good in the east are playing the 4 or – like amar’e are really 4’s playing the 5. (see, horford, al.)

to me, the hawks role player needs, in order, are:

1) lock-down defender at the 1 (even if teague is an upgrade defensively, i’d still feel a lot better with another true point on the roster)
2) jump-shooter at the 2/3
3) slasher/defender wing
4) defensive/jump-shooting big man

a few names for the above:

1) earl watson, please! maybe skip if bibby gets dealt. for a 3rd options: anthony carter or anthony johnson might come back for his 17th tour of duty with the hawks.
2) flip! bell, roger mason, kyle korver, quentin richardson, j.j. redick
3) matt barnes, jarvis hayes, trenton hassell
4) miller, udonis haslem, tony battie, kurt thomas

there’s going to be value on some, if not all, these guys. some will get paid, a lot will be working for the minimum.

O'Brien

July 6th, 2010
1:32 pm

chuckw/deadjournalist,

With Duhon getting 4 years, $15 mil, and Steve Blake getting 4 years, $16 mil, I think most of the good PGs will be out of our price range.

Given our PG budget (I assume to be $1 mil or less, if we do bring in a 3rd PG), I think Shaun Livingston is worth a look (low risk, high reward), but is anyone interested in former Hawks second round pick (#37) Royal Ivey? Decent defender, familiar with some of the Hawks players, and he only made $1 mil last year.

Also, what about Carlos Arroyo or Jason Williams? I like Keyon Dooling and Earl Watson, but I think they will be too expensive, and may not be interested to be a 3rd PG.

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
1:39 pm

Danie Orton was 1-8 in his 1st summer league game yesterday. And he’s 0-3 in the 1st half of his 2nd summer leageu game today…. Good thing Orlando chose this guy before our 31st pick….

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
1:42 pm

I think the Hawks should spend the whole MLE on Jermaine O’neal. Sign Kwame or Big Ben to the vet min.

Dan Morton

July 6th, 2010
1:48 pm

I admit that I don’t understand exactly how the sign and trade deal works but could the Hawks not work a sign and trade deal with Toronto where we get Bosh and they get Josh Smith? The differential is about $7M/ yr but even if that takes us over the cap and invokes the luxury tax it still would leave us about number 8 out of the 16 playoff teams in terms of salaries. They are about the same age but Bosh is long on performance and Smith is only long on promise

chuckw/deadjournalist

July 6th, 2010
1:49 pm

O’B – I had Ivey on my list to begin with, but I’m not sure he can play more than five mins a game. Livingston is talented, but with his injury background and his height I’m not sure he’d solve the small, quick point guard problems the Hawks had defensively last year.

So much depends on who, if anyone, is moved from the Hawks roster. If everyone is around for 10/11 then Ivey, Carter, Johnson are more realistic options. Watson is a pipe-dream, but one that would be a great option if the Hawks were able to move Bibby and didn’t get a point back in return.

O'Brien

July 6th, 2010
3:05 pm

Dan,

Bosh would have to agree to come to the Hawks, and Atlanta is not on his wish list. Also, even if Bosh wanted to come here, the Hawks cannot afford to give $100 mil contract to 2 guys.

chuckw,

Thats part of the reason why I think they need to make a trade. Currently, they have 10 guys who will get PT. If they add another big, thats 11. Does anybody really expect the Hawks to go 11 deep? Not to mention they still need a backup SF (Mo Evans is not a SF).

They probably wont get a third PG anyway, because Crawford and JJ can both help out.

Melvin,

I think Kwame will get more than the vet min ($900K). Probably more like the bi-annual (~$2 mil). If we sign JO, I think we will go cheap with another big like DJ Mbenga or even Johan Petro.

BrittishAnger

July 6th, 2010
3:14 pm

Marvin should have focused on three-pointers last off-season, that was his tragic flaw this season and something that should really be considered at that argumentative level. His PPG drop is equivalent of one to two of those 3’s a game, and it allowed him to play more with the Mo Evans/Flip Murray squad because the shooters could spread the floor on the perimeter with Mo and Marv’ in the corners and Flip running the show and using the front court for screens. He opts to improve his dribble game which does nothing to really improve anything except make him a third to fifth option in an iso offense. Marvin buried himself by not keeping the three-pointers dropping and in this season’s predicament not improving it and adding a few additional hot-spots. I’m interested to know what Larry’s offensive sets will look like during the Summer League, it’s going to give us an idea of who is going to prosper in it and who is going to flunk out…

In more optimistic news, the Joe Johnson signing does pretty much Guarantee a NBA Jam lineup of J.J., Jamal Crawford, and Smoov….Warms the heart inside of my heart….

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
3:42 pm

If we sign JON, then give me a 3rd big with some bulk. Rather that be Jason Collins, Etan Thomas, Magloire or Adonal Foyle… just someone with a different body type. Also, don’t forget about that ultra-talented Patrick O’Bryant. :lol: But seriously, anyone remember how well Chris Hunter played against us last year while with the Warriors? He’s a NBDL product and may be worth an investment as a project defensive center for cheap money. I’d gladly put him on the RandMo 2-year plan.

Big Ray

July 6th, 2010
3:59 pm

Astro Joe ,

All I want is a tougher team that can deal with the bright lights and the adversity, along the same lines that Boston did. Yes, it’s championship experience that does that. But it’s also a great sideline leader, and great floor leaders.

Both Cleveland and Orlando lacked the floor leadership Boston has, and I’d venture to say that neither team had the advantage on the sidelines, either. Who holds it together for Orlando? What about Cleveland? Lebron is a great player. A great leader? Not yet. The main veteran there is a choker for life (Vince Carter). Boston has three guys who can assume the role of team captain at any time. And that team has a chemistry that has overcome a lot. We don’t have that, which was my point. I’m not just looking for it from the sideline. I’m looking for it on the roster.

My side comment to Doc was not for the purpose of disagreeing with you. It was merely acknowledging what we both knew you were really doing – complaining about the hire of Larry Drew. Again.

Big Ray

July 6th, 2010
4:04 pm

I don’t know what we’re going to do about getting another big (or two) on this roster, but I see the reports about the Hawks listening to trade offers where Josh Smith is involved.

I think it’s a good thing that they are exploring this notion. No, I don’t WANT to see Josh go, but I’ve always maintained one thought on that. If you can make this team better and more balanced, then TRADE HIM.

The idea of this team’s core has about run it’s course, in my opinion.

Big Ray

July 6th, 2010
4:09 pm

That is to say, this team’s “core” can’t be what it was advertised as 2 years ago. Cutting off any snarky comments before they get here, I never believed that simply changing coaches would be all that’s necessary to get better results out of this team. Do I believe it was a necessary element in achieving that result? Yes. But that isn’t, and never has been, the end-all, be-all. Roster changes need to be made, and they need to be serious ones.

Will they be easy? Absolutely not. And this is nothing new. We were talking about having to make choices between Josh Smith and Marvin Williams years ago. Now it’s between Al and Josh, it seems. The “core” of this team is still somewhat youngish, but I don’t think it can continue the way it has. At some point in time, you cut bait and run. As much as we’d like to see what these guys can do under Larry Drew, there are windows of opportunities that could close while we’re still “experimenting.”

It’s up to Sund to figure that one out. Good luck.

Astro Joe

July 6th, 2010
5:01 pm

Obviously, a team that hasn’t advanced beyond game 4 of the 2nd round doesn’t need to have an 8-deep roster of untouchables. If they trade Josh, I hope they get at least 2 years of someone really, really good. That excludes Tony Parker as he only has 82 games left on his deal. If they signed him to an extension, then I’d be on board. I’d also would suggest that waiting until February could make sense to try and grab that elusive big man. Maybe you roll the dice with someone like Ilgauskas to start the year and then possibly trade Jamal in January/February (especially if the pentangle offense is potent enough that we can sacrifice Jamal for a big body). Bottom line, the playoff roster doesn’t need to be set in November.

And please, STAY AWAY FROM SHAQ!!!!!!

O'Brien

July 6th, 2010
5:26 pm

AJ,

I think its too much of a risk to wait until the trade deadline to move Jamal. If we trade him now, I think there are more teams that will be interested, and whichever new piece we get will have training camp etc to get into the pentangle offense.

Plus Jamal’s value is high right now. Also, I dont want us depending on a different person for bench scoring in February, and trying to mix and match Al with our new big man in February. Do it from the start of the season so everybody is on the same page.

O'Brien

July 6th, 2010
6:50 pm

Melvin,

Celtics are scheduled to meet with kwame brown tomorrow.

I hope Hawks don’t wait around for shaq only to be turned down (which I think we will). Because by then all decent big men may be off the market.

Big Ray

July 6th, 2010
8:26 pm

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
8:37 pm

OB,

I have a strange feeling that the Hawks are going to be shut out of FA bigs…

O'Brien

July 6th, 2010
9:05 pm

Melvin,

I dont think we’ll be shut out of FA bigs. I think we’ll end up signing a guy like Johan Petro (who Sund drafted back in Seattle) or somebody’s thrid string center.

I think Sund needs to make a trade though, because if he signs a big, that gives us 11 players who could deserve time.

PG – Teague, Bibby
SG – JJ, Jamal, Jordan, Mo Evans
SF – Marvin
PF – Josh, FA Big
Center – Al, ZaZa

Thats 11 guys. And we know the Hawks are not going to play 11 guys, especially when 4 of them are best suited at one position (SG).

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
9:23 pm

OB,

If Petro is the best big we sign then that’s just like being shut out. I’m sure Joe was not referring to Petro or a player his caliber when he said he’s going to help recruit…

O'Brien

July 6th, 2010
9:43 pm

Melvin,

For the record, I think it was Joe’s agent who said he would help recruit. We are yet to hear a word out of JJ. And as quiet as he is, I have my doubts as to whether or not 1) he will really help recruit or 2) he will be successful recruiting.

My impression of JJ is people recruit him to play with them, he does not recruit people to play with him. I hope I’m wrong.

Melvin

July 6th, 2010
10:19 pm

From the Huffington Post Report on 7/6/10 (The Arn Tellem interview):

“For his next act, Joe plans to actively recruit other top free agents to Atlanta, a place not unlike his hometown, where he feels comfortable and appreciated.”

vava74

July 7th, 2010
6:01 am

I had a vision:

We will end up with Rasho Nesterovic’s last remains as the bulky C off the bench.

Big Ray

July 7th, 2010
7:30 am

O’brien

I get the feeling JJ could care less about recruiting. He’ll sign his contract bright and early tomorrow, then fade back into quiet solitude until training camp. As for acquiring a big man of worth, I think I see a trade coming. I’m not sure how else it will happen, and I have a feeling that Shaq ends up in Boston if Lebron leaves Cleveland. I doubt he has any real desire to come here. Dallas won’t give up Haywood without exacting an uncomfortable price, and Haywood would probably like to stay there.

Melvin

I don’t believe anything any agent has to say. It’s always coming at an angle. “For Joe’s next act…” For Joe’s next act, he can average 20+ppg in the playoffs next season. Leave the recruiting to people who care about it and can lay out some $$ terms..

Big Ray

July 7th, 2010
7:31 am

VaVa,

I laughed at that…too funny…then I realized you may be clairvoyant, and I started crying…

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
7:50 am

Big Ray,

Co-sign. For an impact guy to come here, he would probably have to take less money. And since JJ did not take less money than what he might have gotten on the market (like what Dirk did, and what Paul Pierce did), how is he supposed to convince somebody to take less money to come here? Plus with his quiet nature, I just dont see him doing much recruiting (or being successful at it).

Shaq to Boston or Cleveland makes sense, so unless we sign JO, I think Rick’s best move is to make a trade for a big man. And even if we sign JO, we should still be trading.

As for JJ, what I would like to see from him on the court, is a commitment to defense. Although Josh got criticized a lot last year, I have seen JJ take plays off on defense too, and then turn it up when he wants to.

He was carrying most of the offensive load, and handling the ball a lot, so maybe he was saving himself. But assuming he doesn’t dominate the ball on offense and becomes more efficient, I would like to see a commitment to playing defense capable of all NBA defense.

As a team, we need to improve our defense in the paint, and defense on the perimeter. Teague and less switching should help, but I think JJ is also capable of playing better and more consistent defense.

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
8:19 am

I hope Joe is trying to do some recruiting. Heck, even I’m trying to recruit for the Hawks. I saw Jermaine O’Neal in Red Robin during the NBA Final game 5 and told him I wanted him to sign with the Hawks. Of course he was on the phone, so he smile and shook my hand. Don’t worry guys, I have peoples that has direct contact with him. I’m going to put in the word for the Hawks again….

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
8:22 am

The word this morning is that Bosh will sign with the Heat and the Heat has interest in Haywood/Felton. If the Lebron doesn’t go to Miami then I can see the Heat signing Haywood and possible Felton. That would be a pretty tough lineup with Beasley and Wade… The Hawks better get moving b/c the Heat and Wizards could be very improve next season and we know the Magic will be tough as well….

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
8:26 am

Sund, give this guy the whole MLE so we can have a true Big…

“Not that he’s a player that the guys have spoken to, but this all brings to mind a conversation I had with Jermaine O’Neal back in February about this very thing. O’Neal just wrapped up the final year on a gigantic contract that paid him over $20 million in his final year.

“I’ve talked to so many guys who have been around this league and done some really great things—and I don’t want to say any names, but everybody’s saying the same thing… they’re talking about going somewhere as a crew to have that opportunity,” O’Neal said.

In other words, the idea that there are players willing to give up paychecks for a chance to win isn’t as far-fetched as some may think.

“I’ve experienced a lot of things in my career,” O’Neal continued. “I’ve had my own shoe, national commercials, All-Star games, USA teams, big contracts—and I don’t feel validated because I haven’t had the opportunity to play for a championship. That’s all I’m worried about right now.”"

kwooden1

July 7th, 2010
9:18 am

Melvin I’m still good with doing a S&T with a team that is under the cap to sign Jermaine. (or even Shaq after thinking about it last night) I think the S&T will allow us to give some more money to Jermaine or Shaq and also allow us to upgrade at another position without having another body on the roster. I would like to S&T Marvin and/or Evans, then bring back Chills.

GO HAWKS!

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
9:46 am

KW,

Do the Hawks have anything the Heat may want? If I’m correct, i think the Hawk would have to send back almost equal salary in a S&T. Not sure if the Heat would be interested in taking back salary for a guy who they have no plans in resigning.

kwooden1

July 7th, 2010
9:55 am

Melvin please correct me if I’m worry but I think Jermaine is a true FA and can sign with anyone. So I think the HAWKS just have to find a team that is under the cap like NJ, or NY and get them to sign Jermaine then we do a S&T with that team. I think NJ or NY could use a young guy like Marvin and wouldn’t want to keep an old guy like Jermaine.

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
10:02 am

KW,

Not sure about that. I will let CBA guru’s Nire or MannyT answer your question.

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
10:05 am

Melvin,

If Chris Bosh signs outright with Miami for 5 years $97 mil (instead of SNT), then they should have enough money for 2 solid free agents (and if I was Miami, I would stay away from LeBron). They still need a shooter though.

I still like Chicago. I would go after Carlos Boozer and a shooter (Kyle Korver or Ray Allen maybe) and still have the money to add another solid piece.

kwooden1,

I think it will be very complicated trying to find a S and T partner for free agents like JO and Shaq. I just dont think our players have enough trade value for a team under the cap to accomodate us.

I think Rick needs to make some trades, preferrably using Marvin, Bibby, Mo Evans, and Chills (and Jamal if necessary).

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
10:25 am

OB, so we have a 53 win team full of players (and contracts) that no one wants? That seems strange. Miami has virtually 0 players and JON and Bosh failed together in Toronto. Would Miami take Zaza? Yeah, I think they would. Bibby? Maybe in a Jason Terry role. I would NOT trade Marvin for the remnants of JON. But Zaza and Mo? That would allow us to give JON close to $7M.

Just because Joe doesn’t speak to the media or provides locker-room leadership, it doesn’t mean that dude is friendless. He’s played in 4 ASGs and participated in the Olympic try-outs a few years ago. He’s played for 3 different teams. My guess is that he does in fact have some relationships with guys across the league. No, he won’t recruit a $10M player to take a 50% pay cut (exactly who is able to do that?) But can he convince JON who shares the same agent to join the Hawks? Did Tellum already begin those discussions with JON when he made that statement?

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
10:33 am

Childress + Zaza + Mo for JON + Dorrell Wright + Joel Anthony. If you make that deal, the Hawks could add some filler for <$1M each and be done. The 3 new guys become our bench frontcourt to pair with Jamal and Bibby/Teague. And Wright would definitely push Marvin (he played quite well last season) and we'd have a lot of flexibility across the frontcourt. Miami gets 3 guys who are ready to play a suppoting role immediately. Zaza & Chill could start with Bosh on the frontline.

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
10:56 am

AJ,

I didn’t think about Miami, but they would make sense, especially since they have JO’s rights. And JO does share agents with JJ, which always helps.

On a 53 win team, everyone contributes (players and coaches), but the main reasons were JJ, Jamal, Josh and Al.

So who wants marvin, unless they are dealing from a position of strength, or getting rid of a player (or contract) they dont want?

I Dont think Miami wants Zaza for $4 mil when they can sign Joel Anthony for $2 mil.

Either way, my point to kwooden1 is teams under the cap will find better deals with other teams (IMO) than they will the hawks.

MannyT

July 7th, 2010
11:18 am

If you ask the basic question – what’s in it for me? Why would a team with cap space, S&T a player to another team? The closest I can get is to move a player to a different conference. It makes it easier to win in your conference, but you may sacrifice some revenue when that guy comes to town (once vs 2 or 3 visits)

S&T normally involves the team that has Bird rights for the player. No real advantage to doing a S&T to move a player if you do not have his Bird rights (unless you are so against another team that you see it as a way to screw them over. I don’t think you see that happen in such a visible way from a team perspective.)

MannyT

July 7th, 2010
11:22 am

Looks like Miami will be a stronger team. Looks like Toronto may be weaker. If Miami is strong enough to move past the Hawks, that would be the difference between a 3 seed and a 5 seed (using this season as a comparison.) That doesn’t factor additional free agent moves by all the teams that have cap space and lose out on LeBron.

This will be a tougher season unless there is an out of the blue deal for LbJ to go West. Cleveland will drop hard & fast, but his new team will likely rise above the Hawks in wins.

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
11:27 am

MannyT,

I think Chicago still has the cap space to become a stronger team as well.

I know that we have been waiting for some news on Drew’s coaching staff. Well, it is being reported on Indy website that Lester Conner will be LD’s lead assistant. From indystar.com;

Lester Conner landed on his feet pretty well after not having his contract renewed by O’Brien last month. Conner is expected to sign a three-year contract to be coach Larry Drew’s lead assistant down in Atlanta. Conner will coach Atlanta’s summer league team in Vegas.

Who is Lester Conner you ask? From wikepedia.com;

Conner began his NBA coaching career in 1998 as an assistant to Rick Pitino for the Boston Celtics. He also was twice the assistant coach in Milwaukee for head coach Terry Stotts, leaving after Stotts was fired following the 2006-2007 season.

Conner credits current Indiana Pacers head coach Jim O’Brien for his start in coaching.[3] and has worked under O’Brien on three separate occasions. The first was with the Boston Celtics from 2001-04.

The second was as associate head coach for the Philadelphia 76ers in the 2004-05 season. In June, 2007, Conner moved to Indiana, to once again work for O’Brien and the Pacers.

If Connor is indeed the hire, I must say I’m not impressed by his resume.

Tech First

July 7th, 2010
11:36 am

ALL DO RESPECT TO MR. SUND LAST OFFSEASON YOU DONE A GREAT JOB DRAFTING TEAGUE EVEN BIGGER JAMAL CRAWFORD THIS YEAR ATLANTA FANS WILL LEAVE GIVING JOE JOHNSON 12.6 PER GAME IN THE PLAYOFFS DOES NOT ADD UP TO 120MILLION DIRK GOT 4 YRS 80 MILLION PIERCE GOT 4 YRS 61 WE SHOULDOF OFFER JOE 5 YRS 101MILLION AT MOST 1MILLION MORE THEN THE HIGHEST PAID FREE AGENT AND SO FAR THATS AMARE 5 YR 100MILLON IN NEW YORK DIRK PLAYED IN A FINAL PIERCE 3 FINALS ONE RING JOE CANT LEAD A TEAM PASS THE SECOND ROUND AND TO GIVE JOE 40 MILLION MORE THAN DIRK OR PIERCE IS A NOT GOOD MANAGEMENT I SPEAK FOR ALL ATLANTA FANS WE DONT WANT JOE TRADE HIM TO NEW YORK FOR DAVID LEE AND ANYBODY WE ARE THE ONLY TEAM TO OFFER A MAX DEAL OTHER THAN WADE AND LEBRON JOE IS NOT IN THE SAME BALL PARK AS THESE GUYS MAKE ATLANTA HAPPY TRADE JOE TAKE A LOOK AT THE PISTON THEY HAVE PCS TRADE JOE FOR RIP AND A BIG ANYTHING JUST DONT BRING JOE BACK WE HAVE SEEM HIS LEADERSHIP AND ITS NOT WORTH 120MILLION 0-8 IN THE SECOND OF THE PLAYOFFS.

chuckw/deadjournalist

July 7th, 2010
11:39 am

just a though … the hawks have matched up pretty well with d-wade and bosh in the past. but if lebron signs with the heat – as the rumor of the minute is suggesting – it would seem that childress’ value to the hawks would increase because he has the length and ability to chase/defend the wings. childress should have been the hawks’ version of t. prince … and still should be.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
12:04 pm

If LeBron returns to the Cavs, it will likely be for 3 years. He won’t have another big time FA joining him (Mike Miller, maybe, but not exactly big time). I think that he is headed down to Miami.

Meanwhile, Mo Williams, Varejao and Jamison aren’t exactly chump change. They should (at least) make the playoffs, somewhere in the 4-6 range).

kwooden1

July 7th, 2010
12:18 pm

MannyT, O’Brien

The HAWKS need to be creative and explore all options. In terms of JO its my understanding that it takes 3 yrs to get Bird rights and Jermaine has only 2 yrs with Miami. It looks to me that Jermaine is a true FA and can get the same money anywhere, but more money with teams that are under the cap, except for S&Ts. We need to be one of those teams that figures out an S&T. I believe the only way for the HAWKS to get either O’Neal is to pay more than the MLE.

MannyT

July 7th, 2010
12:31 pm

If LbJ returns to Cleveland, I think they finish in front of the Hawks. They still have the MLE and folks will want to play on his team. They can get something for the guys they are willing to trade.

W/o LbJ, Cleveland is free…free fallin’.

The Miami problem isn’t Bosh & Wade, it’s that they will attract some above value “others”. It’s those others that will likely cause the Hawks problems. To be on the fast track for a ring would a minimum salary guy come here, play w/LbJ or go there! We finish 3rd in that race.

@OB–I think if CHI & NJN lose out on LbJ, they can become winners in the long run, b/c they can get some quality replacements for less. Instead of 2 max players, they might get 3 good players. Add 3 of Boozer, Lee, Miller, Jefferson, JO’Neal, Shaq to one of those teams depending on need. Both already have strong PGs and a solid big man so the money allows them to be competitive quickly if they want to spend now.

MannyT

July 7th, 2010
12:37 pm

JON Bird rights followed him to Miami. They have his rights unless they renounced them (which they may have to sign Bosh.)
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q25

If you want the Hawks to get creative and get a big, think trade…possibly 3 way where we move either Jamal (b/c of talent AND expiring contract), Josh (talent and big, but tolerable contract), Marvin (if you are willing to accept lesser value due to unfavorable trading contract) or Bibby (magic beans trade and Sund has found a village idiot).

Those are your options aside from a Chills S&T.

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
1:13 pm

Astro,

Looks like I’m not the only person who wass not impress with Daniel Orton. From Hoopsworld:

“Daniel Orton – When you’re a first round pick, everyone expects you to be nervous or get off to a slow start. They know your game is going to be raw, especially when you’ve been labeled as a project that still needs a lot of development. But there is no excuse for Daniel Orton’s lack of production in the first two games.

Many have made the leap from believing he’s raw to saying he doesn’t belong on the court. Players and media alike have said that he’s one of the worst players and he just doesn’t seem to get it out there. After the worst possible debut on Tuesday, Orton came back on Tuesday to post 2 points on 0-6 shooting, 2 rebounds, and one block.”

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
1:16 pm

At least 20 teams are going to regret not drafting Lance Stephenson… I hope Jordan Crawford can play….

“vLance Stephenson – After shining on day one, the Lance Stephenson show continued on Tuesday. The Pacers as a whole struggled to find their shot but Stephenson was the lone bright spot offensively, scoring 15 points on 7-10 shooting.

He feels very comfortable at this level and believes that the spacing and speed of the game benefits him. Paul George’s stat line was impressive (10 points, 8 rebounds, and 7 steals) but it was Stephenson who turned heads for the second straight day and kept the game from turning ugly.”

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
1:16 pm

If I’m Orlando, I would be calling Utah about a sign and trade (Boozer for Bass and Gortat). Because if you give Howard a traditional front court presence, and move Rashard to SF, I think that will take some of the offensive pressure (and double teams) away.

If I’m the Knicks and I lose out on LeBron, I’m calling Golden State about a sign and trade of David Lee for Monta Ellis.

I’m looking forward to Friday, after the LeBron circus is over, to see other teams start making moves.

Dan

July 7th, 2010
1:17 pm

Yes sign Jermaine O’Neal and Sean Livingston!!! Our big and our point guard. I actually like Livingston at point if he is healthy

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
1:19 pm

Oh well, Wade and Bosh is a done deal. Just saw their interview with Mike Wilbon on ESPN… I hope the Hawks are working the phones b/c this division just got tougher.

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
1:21 pm

OB,

I hope one of the those teams on Friday that’s making moves is the Hawks. We can not go into next season with the same top 8 players and expect to be a better team.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
1:55 pm

Melvin, dude played like 50 minutes of rkentucky the entire season, he won’t need to do much for another 2-3 years for Orlando. And regarding your last comment, don’t forget, we now have a competent coach.

OB, I agree. And if not Ellis, the Knicks should try to grab Arenas. We know that Arenas can handle the NYC media… and his health shouldn’t be anymore of a concern than their new $100M player. Assuming he stays healthy (and away from guns) Arenas is the perfect player to ignite the NYC fan base.

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
2:22 pm

Orlando has Howard and gortat, so orton isn’t going to get much PT anyway, (unless somebody gets injured), so Orlando can take a chance and wait on him.

I hope hawks are prepared to Make moves quickly though, because with so many teams with cap space I think dominos will start falling on Friday.

I hope hawks make a move early, because the longer we take, the more likely we will have to settle for leftovers.

AJ,

Arenas is another good fit. Them trading Arenas for Lee could be beneficial for the hawks, especially if they want Chills.

They could take chills and bibby, and we take Hinrich and one of their bigs.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
2:22 pm

Manny, I know that you’re not interested in making predictions, but I think the Cavs make the playoffs… comfortably, without LeBron. I don’t know how you’re defining a big fall, but they won’t become the Knicks.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
2:56 pm

OB, the info I saw on the Hawks website a few days ago suggested that Drew would be coaching the summer league team. I don’t really care who does it, I’m sure Drew will be there to watch his young guys. Strange, though, that Connor may be coaching the team when they start playing in less than one week and there has yet to be a formal announcement. But then again, they haven’t announced the players yet either.

I kind of recall Connor as a supposed defensive specialist when he played in the league.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/connele01.html

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
3:04 pm

OB, did you see this about Connor? Sounds like he’s an assistant who previously had different opinions from his boss. Sound familiar?

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/06/conner_to_retur.html

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
3:26 pm

AJ,

after reading that, I’m Starting to warm up to Connor LOL.

I like the fact that he spoke up and made a change when he had the opportunity. And If somebody asked Drew how much of woody’s coaching style would he be using, he would probably say “not a whole lot” too.

Hopefully connor’s defensive coaching will be more technical than ‘guard you man or else’.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
3:38 pm

Stan Van Gundy is my new idol. Talk about “keepin it real”? This is the most honesty we’ve heard from a coach in, well, like forever! And I agree with virtually each and every word.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2010/07/stan-van-gundy-will-not-watch-lebron-james-espn-announcement-special.html

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
3:40 pm

OB, yeah, I thought that you (and Melvin) would like that. Let’s hope that Drew allows him the chance to shape this team (unlike Woody provided to his previous assistants).

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
3:56 pm

Astro,

I enjoyed both links. Again, I think LD is ready to be a head guy. Good thing for him, he gets a team that’s very talented and not in rebuild mode. As for SVG, I agree with everything he said. From the free agent circus to Lebron staying in Cleveland. I can’t see him turning his back on that city (state). I think he really wants to deliver a championship to his home. If he does that in Ohio, he would become immortal…

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
4:55 pm

Wow, Bulls sign Boozer.

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
5:05 pm

AJ,

I like the Bulls signing of Boozer. What I dont like is $16 mil per year. Wow.

I can’t help but wonder if David Lee would have been a better option (younger and no injury) for $12-$13 mil (which is what I think he will get). Plus that would have hurt the Knicks.

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
5:14 pm

That was a good pickup for the Bulls. I expect to see them sign a shooter next. I’m glad to see them go after Boozer, hopefully that would take them out of the O’Neal sweepstakes…

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
5:21 pm

How dumb does Joe Dumars look now. Instead of saving the cash last summer and being a player in this summer great FA class, he spends the money on Charlie V and Ben Gordon. That comes after the Darko and Stuckey pick and Billups trade. Why is he still employed as a GM?

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
5:24 pm

Boozer and Amare will be in the east next season. Will the west have any bigs next season? Heck, even if we move Al to the PF, I can’t seeing him make the ASG as forward over Boozer, Amare or Bosh. You know KG and Lebron will be the starting forwards….

MannyT

July 7th, 2010
6:10 pm

Now let the Bulls not get LbJ but add 2 pieces that get above MLE. That could be a very good team.

@Astro, if comfortably is 6th or 7th seed, that could be. If comfortably is playoffs locked by April 1st, I would be very skeptical. All this is w/o LbJ.

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
6:35 pm

If I’m the bulls, and I miss out on lebron, my 2 shooters would be Kyle korver (starting SG) and Anthony morrow off the bench.

I would also sign a Guy like Matt Barnes to come off the bench, and of course a backup PG.

and the bulls would still not be over the cap.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
6:55 pm

Manny, yes, I’m thinking no worse than a 6th seed, I think those guys will respond like UGA after ‘Nique left and they made the Final Four. Guys will have to play and not defer (or stand there and watch) and that should help the team. Just like some believed that a Hawks team without iso Joe (and the player) would survive, I think the same of the Cavs. The long-term problem is that not too many FAs will be interested in going to Cleveland, so they may not get too much better any time soon.

OB, I agree, Korver or Roger Mason or Ray Allen would top of their season. They have to allow room for the raises that are coming for Rose and Noah. And those guys will likely take a 2-3 year deal that is easy on the ledger.

I wonder if all of the pundits will continue to wax poetic about the Western Conference after the summer is complete. Weren’t Amare and Boozer the biggest FAs from that conference this summer (other than Dirk who stayed home)?

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
7:04 pm

Another one speaks the turth:

John Krolik of Cavs: The Blog on Chris Bosh: “It may behoove us to take a look at Bosh’s NBA career to date. He was drafted in 2003, just like LeBron was. He has won a total of three playoff games in seven seasons. He has not played a playoff game since 2008. He has been named to the All-NBA second team once. He has fewer player of the month awards than LeBron has MVPs. He was the starting power forward for the worst defensive team in basketball last season. This dude is NOT a franchise player, but he’s become part of the ‘LeBron-Wade-Bosh’ trinity because he’s a very good young big man in the summer of 2010 and doesn’t have Amar’e Stoudemire’s baggage.”

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
7:23 pm

AJ,

Mike Miller is also available. The one thing messing up the bulls is the horrible contract they gave Deng.

I’m a GT fan and a bosh fan. But he is overrated. Miami will have to get a defensive center (and probably resign Joel Anthony for backup), and get a defensive guard to start at PG. Plus they still need a shooter.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
7:44 pm

Good news for the ASG, I’m pretty sure this luxury tax threshold is higher than expected.

ajchawks League just announced 2010-11 cap set at $58.044 mil and luxury tax level is at $70.307 mil. MLE=$5.765 mil

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
8:05 pm

Joe probably picked up an extra $2M with those cap numbers also. I wonder if he can walk into a car dealership with an article about his new contract and ask for one in red, black and white be delivered to his house by dinner time and then walk out? He could certainly do that at a few gentlemen establishments in Atlanta :twisted:

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
8:15 pm

With a 70mil lux tax, shoul we expect to see the Hawks payroll at 73 mil… 70 + 3 mil from selling the 31st pick…

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
8:49 pm

Melvin,

More like $70 mil + $1.5 mil into tax (because they have to pay $1.5 tax penalty).

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
9:31 pm

Looks like the Hawks has the league min for summer league roster…

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010-nba-las-vegas-summer-league-game-schedule-rosters

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
9:33 pm

OB,

I thought the idea was to use the entire 3mil on the lux tax. In your example, they would only be using 1.5 mil….

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
9:50 pm

Melvin, the tax is double. So if you spend $1.5 over the threshold, Stern will issue a tax for another $1.5M. And that extra $1.5M gets distributed to non-luxury tax teams.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
9:52 pm

daldridgetnt Breaking: Ray Allen staying with Boston with two-year, 20M deal. story up soon on NBA.com.
.
WojYahooNBA Jermaine O’Neal is leaning toward signing with Boston, but still considering Denver, league sources tell Y! Decision will come soon.

Astro Joe

July 7th, 2010
10:00 pm

Melvin, that link is dated from like 2 weeks ago. Chances are that a few more players will be added after the Orlando league and the Hawks rookie camp in a few days.

MannyT

July 7th, 2010
10:10 pm

You guys are also leaving out the loss of the payment for being under the cap. That’s probably a loss of $3 mil right there.

On a looking down the road a year, the chances of a lockout just went up with the higher salary cap. Revenues went up this year. Cap goes up. Why would players want less? Owners want players to have less. 2011-12 is the year of the lockout or the year of the players take a pay cut.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/nba-salary-cap-to-increase-next-year-which-sadly-means-a-lockout-is-more-likely.php

JSS

July 7th, 2010
10:32 pm

@ Big Ray…
This is the beginning of the start of “freshing” scripts for all of the new dramas which will be rolling out into production this month. I was juggling those over the holiday and watching the Orlando Summer League and the World Cup.

Well you asked…
“3) What about those chemistry issues?”
Well that the ‘64,000 Dollar Question,’ can Joe Johnson realize that he’s our George Gervin and do it within the context on the team game. Josh Smith and Marvin Williams need gurus. People who can get inside of their enigmatic personalities and clean out the goop. I said in a post that was eaten up by the blog monster the other day that Scout Greg Ballard needs to take Marvin and Josh aside and introduce them to tapes of Bob Dandridge and himself during their 1977-1980 run in Washington. I had the pleasure and pain of watching 1979 NBA Eastern Conference Finals when Gervin and Dandridge within the context of their respective teams offenses went off like 4th of July fireworks. No long range bombs, mid range jumpers and driving to the rack by marginal ball handlers in a smart way! Beautiful!!! Josh should never be a 3 in the classic sense; but he can play it and still be a help defender. It takes the 1 and the 2 shutting their counterparts. Remember, the only Hawk that made LeBron even flinch once was when Woody reluctantly put Josh on him during waning minutes of the 1st half of Game 3 in 2009.

So chemistry, is it a matter of Bibby? Jamal? Or the “Squirrelly three” (Joe, Marvin, and Josh)? It is up to Larry Drew to work out the therapy and cure the patients! It is not a “Joe on the phone” issue. He needs to get on a plane, bring his teammates together and Oakland A’s style hash it out!

“4) Can Marvin Williams be salvaged?”
See above… I’ve talked that one blue, should have been Larry Drew’s 3rd phone call… 1. Joe, 2. Josh, and 3, Marvin… A FedEx package of clips of “Disappearing Marvin” should have been arriving at the moment he made the call. He has till the trading deadline… Hasn’t been the same since before he got hurt and exposed before the beginning of the ‘09 playoffs…

“5) What will happen with Josh Childress?” Something has to give, I think they are making their play for a MLF center before facing the music on Josh C. If they get what they want and get over the Luxury Tax cap, then I think bring Chillz back and roll the dice. If they implode, expiring Jamal and Chillz get fed to the UFA wolves next Summer. Marvin is gone by the trading deadline at a loss.

That’s how I see it…. Thanks!!!

JSS

July 7th, 2010
11:19 pm

Oh well gloom and doomers, the cap is Two million higher!!! Go get us some players!!!

Melvin

July 7th, 2010
11:21 pm

Astro,

Look like we will have to cross Jermaine off our list. Probably Shaq as well…. Man it sucks to be a Hawks fan sometimes…

O'Brien

July 8th, 2010
7:53 am

Melvin,

I think another thing that will hurt the Hawks, is we seem to do a lot of waiting around.

Our best bet might be to go (aggressively) after some young (maybe unproven) guys, like Anthony Morrow, Joel Anthony, Rodney Carney, because most veterans tend to choose contenders (if the money is close).

Also, we traded for Jamal at the end of June last year. I think Rick needs to be ready to made trades once LeBron signs, because teams with cap space will act quickly.

I know that we are interested in Shaq, but I think its interesting that a team like Boston with established team leaders and an established coach, are concerned that he might mess up their chemistry.

I still think he is a risk worth taking though, if he accepts his role as 20 mpg off the bench.

kwooden1

July 8th, 2010
8:12 am

Manny, thanks for the cap information.

Melvin, looks like your right, we won’t be able to get a quality big again for another season. I think were going to have to get another Collins type guy and hope he can perform.

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
9:16 am

KW,

If that’s the case, then let’s start the rebuilding now (AGAIN) b/c another Collins or Joe Smith type player will not make us championship caliber. At the end of the day, talent wins… Either you have it or you don’t…

kwooden1

July 8th, 2010
9:38 am

Yahoo is reporting that the Raptors have signed Kleiza a 4yr 20M offer sheet. This could be a sign that Chills is ready to come back from Greece also. If Chills gets the same offer, I think we should match and then look to make a trade.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
10:21 am

Kleiza is better than Kapono but they have very similar skill sets. That seems like a strange use of limited funds, unless they plan to move Kapono. Denver may be in a tough position because if Melo doesn’t sign his extension, then Kleiza becomes more valuable for them long-term.

Meanwhile, Childress has about 1 week to notify his Greek team if he staying or going. If he returns, he has to deal with tax issues AND a likely lockout next summer without a guaranteed contract.

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
10:36 am

Astro,

I think some team will show Chills the money this summer. I’ve read that alot of teams are looking at him. Now if a team sign him to MLE or higher then will the Hawks match? Remember, Sund told him to go find an offer 2 summers ago. Will the Hawks let Chills walk for nothing?

WWSD????

O'Brien

July 8th, 2010
10:58 am

I think Chills will sign an offer sheet before July 15, so that will let his Greek team know he is leaving. But with us having Marvin for 4 more years, $30 mil, we can’t afford Chills anymore (even at $5 mil per year).

Regardless of his offer, I don’t think the Hawks will match. Hopefully he will sign somewhere we can work out a trade (like Washington maybe).

kwooden1

July 8th, 2010
10:59 am

Astro,

I watched a few videos of Kleiza and Chills in the Euro league and Kleiza actually much more of a scorer. He likes the ball in his hands and wants to make things happen. I think he’s going to Toronto because he wants to start, probably in DeRozan place. Kleiza has the body type of a SF/PF but I think he likes to play like a SG.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
11:16 am

kw, it almost sounds like you’re describing another Raptor. A Euro player who prefers to play with the ball in his hands. Sounds remarkably like Turkaglu.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
11:27 am

Melvin & OB, I agree, but it need to happen sooner than later. I doubt that they will want to wait until the day of 7/15 to notify the Greek team. And for the reasons previously stated, retunring may not be the best financial move at this point. It was the right financial decision during the first 2 years of the deal, but I don’t think that is the case in this last year.

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
11:32 am

JSS ,

Good answers.

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
11:42 am

I think the Bulls did well to get Boozer. Yes, his contract looks ugly. They all do. But Boozer is a better defender than he seems, he’s a quality 20 and 10 guy, and he presents an opportunity that is very important, but overlooked: He can be the team’s top scorer or top co-scorer, taking that pressure off of Derrick Rose. You don’t want your pg to have to be the top scorer, no matter how good he is.

I think Boozer is a better defender in the post than Chris Bosh, who seems to be tagging along with Wade, despite all the yapping about wanting to be a team’s centerpiece. If Boozer remains healthy, he helps Chicago be a much more dangerous team than they’ve been in the past. Finally, a solid low post scorer who rebounds as well. Taj Gibson off the bench in a 25-28 mpg role, Noah manning the 5 spot as a hustling/defending/rebound gobbling presence. We won’t be able to beat these guys like a drum, like we used to.

I’ll be working on a new blog after the LBJ foolishness is over. I hate to wait for it, but the nature of this blog kinda depends on the fallout from that…

O'Brien

July 8th, 2010
12:00 pm

AJ,

I think its in his best interest to come over now before the new CBA (even if there is a new lockout next year). And the rumor is the Greek team does not want to pay all that money due to the nex tax laws over there.

Ray,

If LeBron really wants to win, I think Chicago is the place to go. because you add him to that team, they are better than Miami with minimum salary guys

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
12:12 pm

That, and he doesn’t share the ball and spotlight with Mr. T-Mobile.

Is it just me or has Chris Bosh become the new Mo Williams? I hate to see a grown man tag along behind another one the way Mo Williams did with Lebron in Cleveland, and the way Bosh is now doing with Wade.

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
12:14 pm

I don’t think Lebron has the winning mentality and drive that guys like MJ, Magic, Larry, and Kobe had/have. That’s why he doesn’t win.

How can you let yourself be called the King when you haven’t won a dang thing (besides some MVP awards)? He even sucked in the Olympics. Well, not sucked, but he wasn’t too good. Dwight looked better than he did. Stephon Marbury looked better than he did. All I can remember about Lebron and the Olympics is his best John Starks impersonation from the free throw line. That was the time we didn’t make it, before Kobe came on the scene and led us to the gold medal.

O'Brien

July 8th, 2010
12:58 pm

From Bill Simmons on espn.com;

If one more person refers to Bosh as a “superstar,” I’m going to scream. His résumé: seven seasons, 11 career playoff games, one second-team All-NBA selection, never played in a big game in his life other than the gold-medal game of the 2008 Olympics.

Now he’s fleeing frigid Toronto for South Beach, no state income tax, Dwyane Wade, max money and the playoffs … and this makes him a “superstar”? Did we really drop our standards that low?

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
1:08 pm

After watching what Damion James is doing for the Nets in the summer league, my pang of buyer’s remorse hasn’t gone away.

I sure hope Jordan Crawford impresses. That’s really all I can say right now…

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
1:09 pm

O’brien ,

No matter what anybody thinks of him, Bill Simmons hit the mark on that one.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
1:20 pm

I previously posted another writer’s view on Bosh. OVER-RATED. I once heard someone call him the modern Shareek Abdur-Rahim. That may be a little strong but it is a lot closer to being true than this current adoration for him.

Anyway, here’s a good article on Joe’s contract by Lang Whitaker, a vocal Hawks fan:

http://www.slamonline.com/online/blogs/the-links/2010/07/links-about-that-joe-johnson-contract/

doc

July 8th, 2010
1:21 pm

heh heh, i’d call bosh a rich man’s version of pippen. shameful but laughing all the way to the bank.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
1:23 pm

Ray, what did James do in the summer league? I haven’t been paying close attention to any of the games (yet). I did watch a llittle of the Thunder-Sixers game yesterday and was impressed with Mustafa Shakur, as a 3rd PG prospect.

doc

July 8th, 2010
1:26 pm

jss, glad you passed, too! big ray can be a pretty hard judge from time to time. power freak you know, cant wait to push the in the can button he wields or some think.;-)

what is the betting line of la queen staying or going, las vegas or great britain got a line on it?

cant wait, yawn. it can topple the nba world if riles gets his way.

niremetal

July 8th, 2010
1:36 pm

Did someone say something positive about Bill Simmons :evil:

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
1:48 pm

And I have to say, listening to Steve Smith broadcast the summer league games made me sad. He’s not exactly Hubie Brown, but he is SOOOO much better than our beloved local legend.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
1:56 pm

OOF, James scored 30 and went 3-5 from deep. OUCH! Melvin, I see that Orton pulled down 0 rebounds in 17 minutes. How do you manage that as a center? 0 boards?

niremetal

July 8th, 2010
2:06 pm

Didn’t Shelden and Acie make the all-Summer League first team way back when? Sorry, but these are one step above pickup games. I give them zero weight.

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
2:06 pm

I haven’t seen James game today but I will watch the replay tonight (instead of the Lebron special) but until today his play has been ok. He was shooting it everytime his hand touches the ball. Now who really impress me is Lance Stephenson. I think a lot of teams are going to regret passing on him. 6-5, 220 and he can play PG. Dude has been ripping it up in the summer league…

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
2:16 pm

With news of Jermaine agreeing to sign with the Celtics along with a 4 team (Hou,Char,Tor,Mia) trade. We can cross JON and Chandler off the Hawks FANS wish list of bigs….

doc

July 8th, 2010
2:26 pm

nire i think shels looked like a bust even in the summer league. that was the first suggestion of what was to come.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
3:16 pm

James was drafted after pick #20, so no need to pay any attention to those guys anyway. They are just destined for a practice squad role (at best) or bus rides in the NBDL.

Melvin, did you see our summer league roster yet? It looks like Teague may get every minute at PG. He should arrive at the vet’s camp full of confidence and with a coach who will give him every opportunity to shine.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
3:17 pm

Melvin, can you post info about this 4-way trade?

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
3:38 pm

Astro,

I can’t post the link at this time. Check MC blog. I think someone posted it there or check hoopshype. I should add that it was a rumor trade that could happen.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
4:06 pm

Melvin, I found it, but to your point, it doesn’t appear to be a likely scenario:

ChrisMannixSI Source calls deal “unlikely to happen” at this time. If it can be revived, it would give Miami more cap space and guarantee Bosh a 6th year.
10 minutes ago via UberTwitter
Reply Retweet .
ChrisMannixSI Framework is Bosh to Miami, Tyson Chandler to Houston, Jared Jeffries and Michael Beasley to Charlotte and a fill in player from HOU to TOR
11 minutes ago via UberTwitter
Reply Retweet .
ChrisMannixSI Four team deal still being discussed among Toronto, Houston, Charlotte and Miami, source told SI.

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
4:10 pm

Astro,

I couldn’t understand why teams would help Miami with their cap situation by taking Beasley off their hands? That would only improve their chances of landing Lebron.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
4:31 pm

Melvin, yeah, I’d have to be getting back a ton of value to help out Miami at this point. And Beasley ain’t it.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
5:22 pm

Michael Beasley, Tyrus Thomas and Stephen Jackson coached by Larry Brown? That sounds like a reality show. And Boris Diaw sitting in the corner in a deep depression because no one is actively managing his self-esteem. No way LB would support that trade. That’s a job for a sports psychologist, not an NBA head coach.

O'Brien

July 8th, 2010
7:42 pm

Am I the only one who thinks Lebron goes back to Cleveland for a 3 year deal?

Is his ego that big, and his disregard for Cleveland so much so that he will announce on TV that he is leaving?

Although he is not a fan of Cleveland teams (he roots for Yankees and cowboys), it will be interesting to see fan reaction in Cleveland if he leaves.

niremetal

July 8th, 2010
8:06 pm

Although he is not a fan of Cleveland teams (he roots for Yankees and cowboys), it will be interesting to see fan reaction in Cleveland if he leaves.

Their entire economy pretty much exists of LeBron billboard sales companies. They’ll be too busy figuring out how to avoid becoming the new Flint to hate him.

O'Brien

July 8th, 2010
9:29 pm

Miami it is. I’m just glad its over with so other teams will move on and make their signings and trades (including the Hawks).

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
9:45 pm

The three amigos are in Miami. Now what will the Hawks do? You still want to talk 53 wins from last season.

Astro Joe

July 8th, 2010
9:47 pm

OB, I was convinced that he would return to Cleveland. That’s about the 10,000th time I’ve been wrong so far this year. How will I ever live with myself?

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
9:48 pm

How dumb is Cleveland for giving away Big Z expiring contract for Antwan Jamison terrible contract…

Melvin

July 8th, 2010
10:25 pm

Take this you Acie Law haters….:

“Alex Kennedy: What are the Cavaliers doing two hours before The Decision? Meeting with Acie Law and giving him tour of facility, according to sources. Twitter”

samuel

July 8th, 2010
10:35 pm

It doesn’t matter what the Hawks do, can they beat Orlando with the same team? With Dwade, Bosh and Lebron James, Miami is the team to beat. Who can Joe Johnson recruit to make the Hawks better? Give me a break!

O'Brien

July 8th, 2010
10:36 pm

Why would the Knicks take Randolph, Turiaf, and Azubuike for David Lee? Do they really think they will get Tony Parker or Carmelo next year?

I thought they would have asked for Ellis. That would have generated some excitement (him and Amare in D’Antoni’s system), and he would cost 4 years, $44 mil.

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
10:36 pm

Melvin,

Interesting. I wonder if Law gets a job there. Here’s a better question: what will Mo Williams look like for Cleveland now ? For some reason, I just don’t think he’ll return to the all-star game…

Astro Joe ,

Hah! Got you beat, I’ve only been wrong 9, 999 times. Wait a minute, my wife just said something from the other room…..ok, nevermind, we’re tied…

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
10:37 pm

I guess Arn Tellem was wrong about that bit where Joe convinces Lebron to come to Atlanta…

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
10:39 pm

O’brien,

That’s called spending stupid. The Knicks have just saved every other team in the league. Again. Even the Nets and Clippers will look better than this. This is why the Big Apple can’t attract enough star power. Dolan is an idiot, and Walsh and D’Antoni are just taking his cash before they move on.

Big Ray

July 8th, 2010
10:40 pm

And trust me, they will MISS David Lee. Without him they don’t have a single dirty work player beyond Turiaf. Only problem is the guy is a foul machine with little to offer on offense.