Hawks Soaring, Prepare to Feel the Heat!
Ladies and Gentlemen, YOUR Atlanta Hawks!!!!
Going in to tonight’s tilt against D. Wade and the Heat, the Hawks are 9-2 and a mere half-game behind Phoenix for the best record (the BEST record!) in the NBA! I’d ask “who’d a thunk it?”, but I know there are a lot of true believers/blog regulars who are ready to step forward and take credit for such foresight. Additionally, a few folks on the national hoops’ media scene have added to the excitement by placing the Hawks at the top of their “power” rankings.
Heady stuff, indeed!
So now we are at the place where folks start to draw conclusions about just what such a hot start means for the Hawks, and their potential for this NBA season. Truth is that no one knows how the following 71 games will turn out.
No one.
The coaches and players would be the first to say that the literal value of such a tremendous start is that we’re 7 games over .500 and that their confidence is sky high, which IS important to any team on the way up. So should our fans take the same approach, avoiding over-confidence, and acknowledging that the only thing that counts is the next game on the schedule?
Probably, but what fun is that?!
WHAT’S GOOD ABOUT THIS START?
Almost everything. The Hawks have nine wins on the books and nobody can take that away from them. The offense is more versatile than in any season in recent memory. Their firepower is such that they can overcome 3 quarters of so-so execution, against a very talented, playoff-bound Portland team, and still pull off an overtime victory. That simply wouldn’t have happened in years past, even last year. When the Hawks are pushing the tempo and attacking the basket, good things continue to occur.
Josh Smith and Al Horford both are taking their individual games to another level. And for all the concerns that exist (I’m a member of the group that is “concerned”, over the course of the full season) about how our front line is undersized, on the Defensive end, the facts are that, to date, their quickness and athleticism, on the Offensive end, are creating more match up problems for our opponents than they are for the Hawks.
Tonight they play a Heat team that doesn’t present the same kind of “size” challenges, for the front line, that a team like Portland did Monday night. And, having attended that game, I know that our guys won not only the game, but the statistical battle inside. But watching the game, and having a pretty lengthy historical knowledge of the NBA game, I couldn’t help but look ahead, over the course of the grueling, 82-game NBA schedule, and think about how a front line like ours tends to get worn down over the course of a season, by pounding with bigger players on a nightly basis. At this stage of the season, everyone is fresh. But, as I used an NFL analogy regarding the 6-0 start of the Denver Bronco’s last night (now 6-3), in an attempt to highlight that a fast start never guarantees that a team can maintain the pace that the Hawks have set so far, there’s another football analogy that bears consideration:
Football teams with a distinct size advantage, on the offensive and defensive lines, often trade the first three quarters of the interior line battle to a smaller, more athletic team, knowing that by the time the fourth quarter starts, they’ll have worn the other team down. And most games (seasons) are won in the fourth quarter.
So while the Hawks have added depth to their front line this season, so far Woody has largely neglected expanding his rotation and utilizing players like Joe Smith and Collins.
Let’s hear from you guys on whether you’re concerned about Horford and Smith wearing down over the season, against the front lines of teams like the Celtics, Magic and Cavaliers!
Clearly, we’re emerging as one of the top teams in the East. But with that acknowledgment, there should come the need to ask the tough questions about what it will take for this team to climb to the top of the East. If you’re a fan who just wants to enjoy the ride, and let the season and playoffs be what they will be, then I can understand your disinterest in getting too deep about things like “roster balance” and “bench utilization”.
But if you believe this team has the potential to play of all of the marbles, the NBA Championship, as early as THIS season, then looking to identify what, if any, changes are necessary to reach that goal, seems like a fair topic for conversation. And it’s never too early, in my opinion, for an organization to look for ways to improve their immediate opportunity, especially when your team, the Atlanta Hawks, are off to an East-leading 9-2 start!
I’ll leave that general issue for anyone to pick up, should any of you like to discuss it.
TONIGHT, WE FEEL THE HEAT!
This is a team, the Miami Heat, that we know about as well as any team in the league. We beat them in 7 games last spring, to win the first-round of the playoffs. There are no mysteries in how we match up.
D. Wade (with apologies to Joe Johnson and his most ardent fans) will be the best player on the court tonight. One early season issue that continues to create questions is how many points the Hawks have been giving up (while also significantly increasing their offensive production on a nightly basis). While our multi-headed group of back court gunners continues to apply constant pressure to opposing defenses, they haven’t exactly been stoppers on the defensive end. And with Wade and the lightning quick Chalmers, complemented by their own crew of “gunners”, in Q Rich and D Cook, the Heat will put major pressure on our perimeter defense (and if the perimeter guys don’t truly commit to staying in front of these guys, Horford, Marvin and Josh will be forced to work that much harder to defend the paint, causing them to rotate off of guys like O’Neal and a guy who showed during last years’ playoffs that he was a real match-up problem for the Hawks: Micheal Beasley).
This looks like it will be a real shootout, which will make for a seriously FUN game to watch. But the Hawks have to make sure that while they’re having FUN, and are providing us with a FUN experience, that they’re still taking care of the “W’s”. This is a conference match up, and losing a shootout, at home, to the Heat, would not only be a set back, but might really start to create a foundation for the way upcoming opponents prepare for playing the Hawks.
The sooner the Hawks return to making defense a priority, and this would be a great night to make such a statement to the league, the easier it will be to develop ongoing faith that this team’s start is more than a good, early season, run. The offense is there, unlike any Woody-coached team we’ve ever seen. But we need to see some of that defense that Woody has been known for, to really see that the potential for this years’ Hawks is truly unlimited!
Should be a great game tonight!
Let us know what you think about all this and GO HAWKS!
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145 comments Add your comment
mountain_jim
November 18th, 2009
5:54 pm
I think I wish I had the NBA Pass and could see the game…
KevinA
November 18th, 2009
6:23 pm
Ando you have put my concerns in a nut shell. How ever we have the potential to blow teams out and maybe relieve some of the concerns. We still have 5 tough games left and then on paper have games that look like less defense and more offense. We seem to do well in these types of games. Weaker teams will allow Woody to use more bench and break time for starters. We can only hope.
Looking at the schedule at the beginning of the year I felt we would be close to 10-10. The next 20 look easier. I felt that then we would make our move. Lets get through this next 5 and hope I’m right about the next 20. This is why I have not gotten to excited about our burn of the starters. In fact I think we are ahead of schedule on “burn” win or lose.
Ali
November 18th, 2009
6:27 pm
Hawks rule! for all of the phoenix fans out there i have a message:Suns will drop the next two games and Nash will get injured(I’m basically saying they’re not making the playoffs) Hawks will go all the way to win the finals against Portland. Celtics,Cavaliers,Magic, Suns, Lakers, and Portland suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
niremetal
November 18th, 2009
7:32 pm
Gotta say, I LOVE the defensive strategy Woody has used so far against Wade. Marvin and JJ seemed to be guarding him, switching off every possession or two. That both conserves energy (since Wade is constantly on the move) and keeps Wade off balance by giving him different looks.
Now that Crawford is in for Marvin, JJ seems to be guarding Wade every possession. But Wade still has no rhythm. Solid.
niremetal
November 18th, 2009
7:33 pm
And now Mo
vava74
November 18th, 2009
7:35 pm
Great move by Josh!
Wabe
November 18th, 2009
7:43 pm
Finally, Marvin making some buckets. Hopefully that builds the guys confidence a bit.
Wabe
November 18th, 2009
7:51 pm
Arroyo doesn’t look too bad.
niremetal
November 18th, 2009
7:56 pm
Oh man, that oop pass by Bibby was a thing of beauty
vava74
November 18th, 2009
7:59 pm
soooo simple coming of a screen!
Melvin
November 18th, 2009
8:01 pm
Great defense by the Hawks. The Heat look like a deer in headlights and don’t know what to do…
Wabe
November 18th, 2009
8:03 pm
Josh Smith having another good game.
vava74
November 18th, 2009
8:04 pm
that’s Josh!!!
Melvin
November 18th, 2009
8:07 pm
Miami look discombobulated. They are struggling in every facet of the game…
Melvin
November 18th, 2009
8:09 pm
Uh oh, Josh took his first 3pt shot of the year to end the half….lol
vava74
November 18th, 2009
8:09 pm
Gentlemen….
We have something in hour hands….
vava74
November 18th, 2009
8:10 pm
“our”
niremetal
November 18th, 2009
8:11 pm
Josh blew the doors off in the second quarter. My heart stopped when he came down on Crawford on that last play, though…
Wabe
November 18th, 2009
8:14 pm
Defense really stepped it up in that 2nd quarter. J Smoove is a monster.
All Star 2009-2010
vava74
November 18th, 2009
8:18 pm
I think we now have a legitimate 1-2 punch… and the rest is not that bad either…
Wabe
November 18th, 2009
8:36 pm
Pretty poor start to this half. Wade hasn’t really done much the entire night and they’re still right there.
Lead down from 17 to 6.
Wabe
November 18th, 2009
8:51 pm
Gotta play a better 4th quarter. Seems like we turned off the switch coming out of halftime.
Melvin
November 18th, 2009
9:12 pm
Nice to see Marvin hit some shots and play with a smile on his face…
Wabe
November 18th, 2009
9:23 pm
Another great win.
JJ gave his usual effort. Smoove and Horford had great games. Good to see Marvin getting some good looks and draining them.
6 in a row.
10-2.
I’m lovin this!!!
Melvin
November 18th, 2009
9:28 pm
Yes sir, I like the way we beat up on the Heat. Send them a message that they are not on our level…..
Wabe
November 18th, 2009
9:32 pm
Cleveland getting blown out by the Wizards in Washington.
103-85 with 3:00 minutes left…
Melvin
November 18th, 2009
9:44 pm
Another DNP-CD for Javale McGee in the Wiz win tonight. Hmmm, I wouldnt mine seeing that young big in a Hawks uni if the Wiz is going to let him rot on their bench…
niremetal
November 18th, 2009
9:49 pm
There’s a reason he’s rotting on their bench, Melvin. He sucks.
niremetal
November 18th, 2009
9:58 pm
Or put another way, if he’s not getting minutes there, he sure as hell wouldn’t get minutes here. Joe Smith and Zaza are far, far better than he is. He’d be fighting it out with Collins and RandMo for garbage time minutes, and I frankly don’t think he’d win. He’s weak, foul-prone, and a poor rebounder.
HB Ando
November 18th, 2009
10:26 pm
Simply a rock solid performance by the Hawks. They played the defense you want to see, holding the Heat to 90, without giving up the up-tempo offense that has emerged early this season. With each successive outcome, like this, it is becoming increasingly clear that the sky is the limit for this team.
Josh Smith is starting to put up rebounding numbers that recall Marion in his prime. Horford’s output increasingly begs the question, “why is this guy only getting 10 attempts/game?”. If these two can maintain this level of performance throughout the first half of the season, then there’s no reason the Hawks can’t similarly maintain one of the best records in the league. And it will be hard to argue against the idea that the Hawks should have 3 players on this years’ All-Star team, in JJ, Josh and Horford.
Nice, nice win……..
KevinA
November 18th, 2009
11:47 pm
HB Ando.,
Two games in a row JJ has come through in the end. The stat for the night was 5-11 3 pt shots. 11 for 21 overall.
Here is what bothers me
Bibby 3-10
Jamal 3-10
Look I think players have to feel unencumbered emotionally as they look for their shots. But as Wade shows us – it only lasts for so long. Somewhere between the guards they need to sacrifice and give Al another 4-5 shots. Maybe Josh a couple more and ZaZa the same. Nire has pointed out to me how historically the top teams rely on a couple top players, I say lets rewrite history and go for more balance. Feed the ball to the big’s more.
When Joe is slow we hope Bibby and Jamal come through. And as in the past the bench has come through. This post is about Al and Josh. Give them a couple more attempts a night. For stat looking fans, how could you argue.
doc
November 18th, 2009
11:55 pm
i’ve been saying for a while i like these guys. i think i can change it to i am loving these guys.
j smash for mayor baby! the guy has become the three headed monster we knew he could. his sat sheet makes the best of the fantasy leaguers proud while staying within the concept of team and winning. bow down you doubters!
Melvin
November 18th, 2009
11:58 pm
I posted on Monday that this two game stretch with Portland and Miami would decide who’s the 2nd best 2-guard in the league behind Kobe and it showed did. With Joe lighting the Blazers up for 35 and then the Heat for 30 and his team winning both games. I think he secure his spot of the being the 2nd best 2-guard in the league. All this with his team tied for having the best record in the league. Handsdown, Joe is the man (behind Kobe)…
KevinA
November 19th, 2009
12:01 am
. nire,
we haven’t even had a chance to unleash the ZAZA
Ramon
November 19th, 2009
12:20 am
Melvin, you are saying you think Joe is a better 2-guard than Wade? I’m loving Joe recent contributions. But trade him with Wade, and Wade would produce better, without affecting the total number of wins.
About miami heat, thunder, atlanta hawks, game | Find me About
November 19th, 2009
12:32 am
[...] Going in to tonight’s tilt against D. Wade and the Heat, the Hawks are 9-2 and a mere half-game behind Phoenix for the best record (the BEST record!) in the NBA! I’d ask “who’da thunk it?”, but I know there are a lot of true believers/blog regulars who …Read Original Story: Hawks Soaring, Prepare to Feel the Heat! – Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]
HB Ando
November 19th, 2009
1:07 am
Kevin, I don’t think the Hawks have to “rewrite history” to go the balanced route. Detroit’s success, over the last 5 years, was predicated on that type of balance. I think the teams that Nire is highlighting have been led by some of the best individual players in the history of the league (Jordan and Kobe come to mind). For this Hawks team to compete for a championship, they really don’t have a choice but to be more “Detroit” than “Lakers/Bulls”.
Melvin, I don’t know that you’re going to get much support for the position that JJ is better than Wade, unless it’s from Rick Sund, on a call to Pat Riley….
Back to the point Kevin highlights, and that will continue to find its way into daily conversations about this Hawks team: this offense is extremely guard-oriented right now, and historically, those who live by the perimeter shot die by the perimeter shot. The production out of the front court is tremendously efficient right now, and increasingly begs the question why aren’t Horford and Smith, as well as Marvin, who seems to be the odd man out (it was obvious that someone wasn’t going to get the touches they thought they deserved, going into this season, based on the guard-heavy roster construction), getting a few more looks. Winning tends to ease the ever-present struggle, on all good teams, regarding a fair distribution of shots across the players. But when a team hits a slow spot, as far as winning, it’s equally likely that those players who have patiently subjugated their individual offensive games, for the better of the team, start to demand their perceived fair share of the offensive load, when things take a turn for the worse.
As this scenario covers no fresh ground, it is up to the individual teammates to resolve a sense of balance to the ongoing approach on the floor, to ensure that a common ground is established between a direction that seems to optimize the efficiency of the teams’ offensive productivity, while placating certain individuals who may not want to acknowledge that what best for the teams’ success, moving immediately forward may require the individual sacrifices of certain key players and the role each of them play in contributing to the offense.
At this juncture, Coaches MUST establish a firm, defensible pecking order for the hierarchy of touches/shots on the offensive end, while making sure that those players who might feel left out, or minimized by the evolving game plan, are still engaged by the value and importance of their role, as well as their opportunity to “get theirs” in far less traditional ways, such as on the defensive end, through steals and blocks, and in pushing themselves hard to get out in front of the break, for easy transition baskets.
NO matter whether a team is hopeless, or threatening the top of the food chain of their sport, there is stilll a very real necessity that the coaching staff effectively communicate specific roles and expectations to all the rotational players, if they want to minimize the potential for chemistry breakdowns and individual player dissatisfaction.
IT’s not easy keeping 12+ guys happy with their roles, especially when ten of them think they would be the answer to all the teams problems if they were just handed the ball and given the power to run the show.
This is a battle that is many decades old, and not new to the Hawks, or any other NBA teams this season. But the depth of the Hawks lineup, combined with their tremendous 10-2 start, bring this historical challenge to the forefront of the franchise. And the earlier it can be eliminated, or outright discounted as a non-issue, the sooner the Hawks can settle in to a groove and shoot for a long run of winning most every night.
Chemistry and focus, with solid guidance from the coaching staff and organization, will determine whether this compelling Hawks team marches forward in a direct and focused fashion, or whether they’ll be prone to being taken off course by nit-picking and individual agendas.
Hoping for a cohesive squad that places the opportunity for greatness ahead of most, if not all, personal agenda. If so, this could be a special season. If not, well the truth will be hard to mistake.
The eyes of the Atlanta fans are watching, and I think the folks who know their basketball will be able to tell what’s what.
So here we go……..
Go Hawks!
Ed
November 19th, 2009
2:50 am
Another good win for the Hawks and Josh Smith has become a monster. His rebounding has been the most impressive to me as that shows how intensely he’s playing. Al is playing temendously and of course needs more touches. I still cannot understand why JT0 can’t get more burn as he will never improve at this rate.
Ed
November 19th, 2009
2:55 am
Amen, Ando.
Ed
November 19th, 2009
2:59 am
Saw some highlights of Eric Maynor with the Jazz tonight and he’s going to be a special player. He looked as if he was very prepared for the NBA and had some highlight moments against the Raptors.
vava74
November 19th, 2009
6:10 am
Charlie Rosen @ msn.foxsports.com:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/10395492/Young-Hawks-spreading-wings-and-flying-high
Amen!
niremetal
November 19th, 2009
7:25 am
KevinA/Melvin,
I think KevinA conflated two different things that I’ve said in the past: 1) That every title-winning team has at least 2 guys who are a near-lock to score 20ppg in every game; and 2) that on the vast majority of teams (title-winning or not), the perimeter players take more shots than the post players. That was definitely true, for instance, with the Detroit teams that Ando mentioned.
On a related note – if Bibby and Crawford were shooting 30% every game, I’d agree that they should be taking fewer shots. But they obviously aren’t. It ain’t broke now. Please don’t fix it.
niremetal
November 19th, 2009
7:25 am
Whoops, that was meant to be directed at KevinA and Ando, not Melvin.
niremetal
November 19th, 2009
7:29 am
And to clarify – Detroit is the only exception I can think of with regard to #1, but they fit the mold I described in #2. Actually, Detroit isn’t even an exception to #1 if you look at how much Hamilton and Billups scored on a per-possession basis. If the Pistons played at the same pace as most other teams in the league, Hamilton and Billups would have been averaging 20ppg. But since the team won with lockdown defense and by playing at one of the slowest tempos in recent NBA history, they averaged “only” 18ppg and 17ppg. Anyway…
Daniel
November 19th, 2009
8:29 am
OK, It is officially on. Josh is a rebounder!!!!! He is clearly playing at an All Star level. I would even submit that Horford is as well. Three Hawks in the All-Star game? Could it be?
doc
November 19th, 2009
8:44 am
ando …… For this Hawks team to compete for a championship, they really don’t have a choice but to be more “Detroit” than “Lakers/Bulls”.
amen to that bro.
also perimeter needing to balance interior another amen. we didnt do it for 3 quarters against portland and watched jj and jamal clang away then rush down court to defend to a double digit deficit. only when they went interior again did they eat away at the lead.
problem with jamal right now is he is shooting the three at a poorer rate than josh did last year. he may be the type of perimeter guy that has to score inside and get going that way rather than to sit and shoot.
nice stuff ando, concur.
E.J. a.k.a HomeGrown
November 19th, 2009
9:20 am
I hear the comparisons to the Detroit teams that won. Didn’t they have a half court offense that worked during the playoffs. If your main vechicle for scoring is to defend and rebound for the fast-break, in the playoffs doesn’t the game slow down to a half court game? The offense that we show in the half-court setting is not stellar to me. What do you think?
vava74
November 19th, 2009
9:36 am
E.J,,
We will get there. We are growing and improving in all facets of the game, including our half court sets where Al and J-Smoove are working in the paint and getting touches.
Melvin
November 19th, 2009
9:38 am
Only Ando can write a blog within a blog…This guy is “The Most Interesting Man in the World”…. ha,ha..
Sautee
November 19th, 2009
11:08 am
Great game to be in Philips (thanks again, doc). That second quarter was something to see.
Ando,
About this:
“But watching the game, and having a pretty lengthy historical knowledge of the NBA game, I couldn’t help but look ahead, over the course of the grueling, 82-game NBA schedule, and think about how a front line like ours tends to get worn down over the course of a season, by pounding with bigger players on a nightly basis.”
That’s a logical thought. BUT, last year Horford was third in the league among centers in double-doubles (Howard, Yao) AFTER the All-Star break. So how does THAT equate to “being worn down”?
Sautee
November 19th, 2009
11:12 am
Also, as always, it was good to see MannyT (and his ubiquitous box of popcorn) at the game. Looked for E.J., Jhan, and Ando at halftime but either they were no-shows or I just was in the wrong place.
vava74
November 19th, 2009
11:24 am
Yes, the wear and tear is a concern, however, CLE’s frontcourt only has 3 really big bodies, being that two of them are Shaq (37) and Z (34). Both of them old and Z cannot be called a physical C.
The 3rd really big body is Varejão. The rest are either comparable or smaller than our starting guys (JJ Hickson and Powe, if he comes back).
Boston only has 1 really big body in Perkins (280lbs).
Then you have KG, who is 33 but looking 37 right now and Rasheed who is 35.
Shelden should be manageable and Big Baby although wide, looks to play outside jump shooting on offense.
Orlando only poses one real challenge: Howard who is a beast.
Gortat is a lean C and Foyle a non factor. Bass is undersized and should be manageable.
In a custom made ration of height/weight/age our front line roster (PF/C) is the best served in the Eastern Conference, even though our starters are undersized.
niremetal
November 19th, 2009
11:28 am
Sautee,
Agreed. Also…why would someone young, strong, and athletic “wear down” more quickly than someone taller but slower (not to mention older, in the case of Shaq, Ilgauskas, Duncan, etc)? I actually expect that Horford will wear down LESS than his taller counterparts – as he did last year.
niremetal
November 19th, 2009
11:32 am
You can’t consider the “wear and tear” involved in banging with big bodies (which Horford can do just fine, thanks, since he can bench press a freaking SUV) while ignoring the wear and tear of running up and door the floor, jumping, and changing direction for 82 games.
Lacsho
November 19th, 2009
11:58 am
Sautee, I agree 100%. My concerns is with Teagues development. Woodrow is a confidence killer, and no one can justify to me Teagues current playing time. This kid is a gamer and he should be playing in the rookie sophmore game, but with limited playing time it’s not going to happen. Check out my new signature below.
Doc, what’s up my good friend?
Pay me man(you know who you are)
Daniel
November 19th, 2009
12:15 pm
Lascho- Woody killed Josh Smith, Al Horford and Marvin’s confidence? Whose confidence did he kill? Speedy Claxton, Acie Law and Salim? Give it a rest that OLD idea has been beaten to death. Did you even watch the Portland game? Teague got some serious minutes while the team was still trailing. He is not stuck in the doghouse or in garbage time. Woodson is using him in game situations giving minutes without putting undue pressure on the kid. He should be in the rookie/sophmore game? Why? Because you said so? Top tier teams don’t have their rookies playing major minutes, BECAUSE THEY ARE A TOP TIER TEAM.
Tell the truth are you just looking for something, anything to pick at?
Sautee
November 19th, 2009
12:35 pm
Daniel,
I don’t think Lacsho is looking for Teague to play “major minutes”, but look at the Spurs (a Top Tier Team) giving DuJuan Blair almost 17 a game. That’s the kind on consistent court time that could give Teague’s confidence a boost. I’m guessing that’s the kind of thing Lacsho is looking for.
Two things:
One, Woody still hasn’t figured out the backcourt minutes and how to best work Crawford in.
Two, Woody is not NEARLY as self-confident a coach as Pop.
All of that to say that I agree with Lacsho that it’s a mistake to not work the kid in more early. And just because we are 10-2 doesn’t preclude any and all criticism.
Ramon
November 19th, 2009
1:00 pm
Daniel, is Denver not a top tier team? Was Rondo not an inexperienced point guard when the Celtics won a championship? Does Cleveland not wish they had a rookie to bring some athleticism to the team now? Didn’t Harris see a lot of time as a rookie in Dallas? Who gains experience quicker? A rookie who averages 20 min a game during the entire season, or a second year player who’s averaged 9-11 min his entire career?
doc
November 19th, 2009
1:02 pm
lacsho., good to hear from you my friend. just thinking about you the other day. honest was around the neighborhood, miss my myk out in san fran. nothing but good stuff. they will come down sooner or later but these guys know how to fly.
Daniel
November 19th, 2009
1:13 pm
Teague is getting 10-12 min. a game. Blair is a forward who is asked to defend and rebound. Quite a different position than a pg. Also, as you mentioned the back court rotation is still being worked out. Why is it a mistake? Because we won’t win as much without him? Because Woodson is a “confidenc killer”? C’mon that is simply not true.
Would you be happier with Teague getting 17 mpg and an 8-4 record?
I want Teague to get better slowly over the course of the season. He is seeing good pt in games, a couple of games he is not getting in. So? He is a rookie.
It really seems like nit picking. I mean if Teague couldn’t get in the game at all, and Woodson was being critical, then I could see your point. But, that is just not happening.
Daniel
November 19th, 2009
1:20 pm
Ramon- Denver is(?) a top tier team, but they have no one behind Billups. Clevland played the hell out of Boobie his rookie season, how is that going? Harris played well for Dallas as the season went along. But, that went so well that they traded him for Kidd.
Who else did Boston have to play pg?
Yes, there are exceptions, but do really see anything about Teague at this point that makes you think that he is the next Magic Johnson? I am not down on Teague at all, but it seems that an overly sensitive criticsm, to pick on his mpg after 12 games into his rookie season. He is currently getting 10-12 minutes a game. What is there a magic number? 20 minutes? Then who plays less Joe, Crawford or Bibby? Is it not also important for Joe/Mike to develop on court chemistry with Crawford?
vava74
November 19th, 2009
1:28 pm
On DeJuan Blair: I would also like to point out that SA has had many injuries and is undermanned up front, so DeJuan HAS TO PLAY.
Also, SA are 4-5…
In relation to Ty Lawson, Ty had 4 years of college ball and was pointed out as a mature product coming from a championship team (if you want a comparison, Ty is like Al Horford) while Teague is a prospect with a lot of upside.
niremetal
November 19th, 2009
1:59 pm
Co-sign Daniel. Y’all know that I’m rarely one to defend Woody, but I think his use of Teague is right where it should be 12 games into the season and right after the Hawks acquired another player (Crawford) who also is new to the backcourt rotation. Teague’s minutes will increase as the year goes on, I think. But right now, it’s more important to see how exactly to best use Crawford, since he is going to be a more important piece of the puzzle for at least the next year or two. Sautee – you said yourself that “Woody still hasn’t figured out the backcourt minutes and how to best work Crawford in.” So shouldn’t we give him the chance to hammer down how he wants to use our Sixth Man before we start worrying about Teague’s minutes?
I realize Teague needs experience to get better. But we’re not at the stage of the year yet where I’m ready to criticize Woody for failing to play Teague “just because.”
Lacsho
November 19th, 2009
2:16 pm
Sautee and Ramon, you nailed it. Teague doesn’t get 10-12 minutes per game. The majority of his minutes is garbage minutes. Teague deserves no less than 17 per game. He saved the Hawks from getting embarrased in LA. This guy can flat out play. For five years Woodson has had problems managing minutes.
doc
November 19th, 2009
2:26 pm
ej, good to see you back in the fold.
Daniel
November 19th, 2009
2:33 pm
Lascho- well he actually does get those minutes. I also happened to be seated behind the bench for Portland while he played during a stretch in the 2 quarter. So, until you can at least speak about the facts and not your “feelings” about Teague’s minutes there is no point. Against the Knicks and Heat, he got “garbage” minutes. Wait you actually pointed out his significant minutes against the Lakers. You do realize we have only played 12 games right?
Lacsho
November 19th, 2009
3:01 pm
Daniel- I have a nice HDTV in my basement, and I watched Teague get garbage minutes last night. Maybe your feelings for Woodrow is clouding your judgement lol (just kidding just a little jokey joke).
I am so glad to see this team finally starting to reach their potential, and I hope they continue to soar.
Ramon
November 19th, 2009
5:08 pm
I just believe the Hawks could create more opportunities for Teague to get on the court if they truly wanted to. Daniel, Teague hasn’t lost the Hawks a single game, unless Teague not handing JJ the towel the right way when he was on the bench in LA dampened the spirits of the Hawks that game. The Hawks could even experiment sometimes and have Teague replace Williams during different stretches of the game. The fact is Evans gets in the game before Teague does every game. I think if Teague got more playing time with a couple of the starters on the court (no not start him), that he’d be able to relax more. Am I upset that Teague hasn’t gotten more minutes? Not at all. What could anyone be upset with when you’re 10-2. My statements about Teague getting more minutes, are moreso related to the immediate future, than the past. And when I commented on what you said it had more to do with you saying top tier teams don’t play rookies. When truthfully, its only Jackson and Brown who are infamous for not playing rookies. By the way, Denver also has Atkins at PG, who has great experience as a back up PG.
HB Ando
November 19th, 2009
5:13 pm
Lacsho, send Ray or doc a way to handle it, and it will be done. Not like I’ve seen you or know how to touch base with you, bro. But Ray will tell you that you were always in line to settle up….
newkid
November 19th, 2009
6:55 pm
Seems Josh is beginning to be more selective about running the point on a break after he has collected the rebound. Last night he seemed to defer to the PGs a bit more. The cerebral part of his game seems perhaps the area where he has improved most. The handles and footwork improvements he has made over the past three summers, when combined with a continuing real understanding of when to use what skills, is gonna create a monster. If this continues (hope it does), lookout NBA.
Horford should follow Josh’s lead on this. Al sometimes tries – with good intent – to lead the break, only to pull up and pass the ball to a guard after he crosses mid-court. Unfortunately this derails the break rather than hasten it. Al needs to get the ball off the board and quickly into the hands of a guard, then – with his tremendous speed – fill a lane. He doesn’t yet have the handles to take the ball coast-to-coast as Josh sometimes does; he should allow the guard to execute the proper pass at the proper point in the break and concentrate of being at the receiving end of the pass.
On the positive side, Al’s becoming the prototypical power forward with his greatly improved shooting range (1st career 3-pointer on Monday) and his ‘bigger than 6-10′ game in the post. With Josh now increasingly adapting his game to more that of a super athletic power forward, and Al becoming a de facto TRUE power forward, what would we do with a classic post player if we had one? You can’t sit Josh for Al, nor Al for Josh. You don’t reverse Josh’s progress by asking him to play the 3. If in two years, we have 2 of the top 3 power forwards in the league in Hawks’ blue, does this create a dilemma?
With what we’ve seen in 12 games from the new additions, Al, and Josh, it seems what stands between this team and ’special things’ (Larry O’Brien?) might just be good health, time, and Marvin soon adding the dimension we’ve all eagerly awaited since ‘05. If Marvelous doesn’t get there this year (hope he does), gotta do a reasonable SNT with Memphis for the 6′9″ shooter/slasher Rudy Gay during summer ‘10.
Sautee
November 19th, 2009
6:59 pm
Daniel, Ramon, vava74, and Nire,
Good points all. I’m not hung up on a number, but I WOULD like to see him get the kind of meaningful minutes that he got against Portland on a consistent basis.
Otherwise, if Bibby or Craw were injured, he’d be less ready.
Blast
November 19th, 2009
7:23 pm
Hawks must be doing something great if all we have to complain about is the rookie not getting enough minutes!
Sautee
November 19th, 2009
7:37 pm
Blast,
We can always complain that we don’t have enough to complain about!
Lacsho
November 19th, 2009
8:53 pm
Ando, I’ve spoken to Ray, and I know the deal. I just wanted to give you a hard time.
Newkid, I think Marvelous is there. If JJ and Bibby continue to play unselfish, Marvelous will get his shine on. Its really beautiful watching JSmash crash the offensive boards. Smash and Big Al are becoming one helluva two man low post tandem.
Peace
doc
November 19th, 2009
11:29 pm
one more link to the new flying hawks:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/hawks/2009-11-19-bench-boosts-atlanta_N.htm
BA
November 20th, 2009
12:36 am
I haven’t seen anything that would neccesitate a position change for either Smash or Horford. On the contrary, I like the chemistry they’ve developed over the last few seasons, and the Hawks patience is paying off in double doubles this year.
I also don’t think, with Johnson/Bibby/Crawford playing as well as they have been, that Teague should be playing more minutes. Teague is something like thirteen years old, there’s no need to rush him.
Nice article, H.B.
Ed
November 20th, 2009
1:24 am
Nire, Daniel if you check it out Teague is getting nowhere close to 10-12 mins a game. The serious play you speak of against Portland was 3 mins. If Teague was getting a fair share of time he would have most likely shown marked improvement or he’s not the player we thnk he is. The comment about Pop having more confidence is dead on as Woody is still coaching scared. Comparing the playing of Josh, Marvin, or Al when they were rookies is an unfair example We were godawful then as opposed to now and Woody had absolutely no one else worth starting ahead of them.
Ed
November 20th, 2009
1:33 am
Well I am wrong on average mins per game for Teague (10.0 thru the first 11 games) but against Portland he got 5:22. I guess what bothers me is there’s no consistency as there are far too many games in the five minute range.
niremetal
November 20th, 2009
7:16 am
As I said, I think it’s unrealistic to expect Woody to play Teague in a clockwork-like manner this early in the season, when he’s still figuring out how to use Crawford and seeing who Teague does and doesn’t mesh with.
Lacsho
November 20th, 2009
8:57 am
Nire, I think that’s what preseason is for. This is going to be a good game tonight.
Lacsho
November 20th, 2009
9:08 am
This is Woodrows comment in the USA today link provided by Doc.
“People were on me in the past about not using my bench,” Woodson says. “But … if I’m not comfortable with it, I’m going to go with who I can win with.”
Nothing else needs to be said.
vava74
November 20th, 2009
11:41 am
Lacsho,
Woody is consistently using 9-10 man rotations.
This is what normally happens will all playoff teams which are not trouncing opponents for more than 20ppg and can have the luxury to extend minutes to the end of the bench.
I would also love to see Teague more minutes and I am truly convinced that he is the real deal, however, we have to be realistic and privilege winning right now because we need to keep this momentum going as long as we are able to.
I am sure that as soon as we hit a slump or one of our guys goes down with an injury Woody will try new things.
Daniel is right: we need to get Crawford completely inserted on the rotation (he is basically doing the same shifts that were done by Flip) before we start making other adjustments.
I think if we keep up this rhythm and stay in the mix for a higher seed than #4 – which can only be accomplished by winning our division and finishing ahead of Orlando – we have to accept that Woody will have to keep his rotation tight.
Sautee
November 20th, 2009
12:35 pm
vava74,
“I would also love to see Teague more minutes and I am truly convinced that he is the real deal, however, we have to be realistic and privilege winning right now because we need to keep this momentum going as long as we are able to.”
What makes you so sure that giving Teague more minutes and winning are mutually exclusive? Other than Teague’s awful performance in that preseason debacle with ORL, I have yet to say “Well, the way he’s playing, he’ll lose that game for us”. And of course NOBODY would expect Woody to leave him out there on a 0-10 night.
I think, as I’ve said, that the main problem is finding Crawford’s precise role first. Once that is firmly in place, I’d envision more minutes for Teague. But to infer that his increased minutes would definitively lead to losses is just conjecture on your part. We have NO way of knowing that.
But if you are indeed convinced that he’s the real deal, wouldn’t a bump in his “meaningful minutes” be good for all? Particularly if we have backcourt injuries down the road?
Lacsho
November 20th, 2009
12:39 pm
Vava,
I agree and this is just my opinion. I think we would start off stronger if we started Teague and let him play the first seven minutes with the starter, then bring Bibby off the bench with Crawford. I think Teague would increase the movement on offense. Every team we face instructs the opposing guards to go hard at Bibby or look for the pick and roll miss-match. Bibby may be a step slower, but he can drain the open jumper at will. But hey, I pay to watch them play, whereas Woodrow gets paid to manage this team. So with that being said I will sit back and enjoy this season.
Peace
Hawks Fan
November 20th, 2009
12:51 pm
DID ANYONE SEE AL HORFORD ON TNT last night.
If you did, you saw the “new” red Hawks jersey that the team plans to unveil for our nationally televised game against the Orlando Magic on Thanksgiving night.
Let’s get ALL of our fans to wear “RED” to the game that night as our NBA- leading Hawks are wearing their “new” red jerseys.
What do you think?
Let’s get the word out NOW!!!!!
I sent an email to the folks over at AJC to see if we can get them onboard and start a blog telling the fans to wear red to the game.
What better way to SHOCK THE WORLD than to send a “RED WAVE” across the country by our fan base.
This would also be sure to ENERGIZE our team and fanbase.
What are your thoughts?
Lacsho
November 20th, 2009
12:53 pm
Sautee, I don’t know why everyone thinks “once Teague enters the game he’s a liability”. However, everyone in the league knows Bibby has lost a step.
vava74
November 20th, 2009
1:05 pm
Sautee and Lacsho,
First, I never said that giving Teague more minutes would automatically mean that we would lose more games.
However, we have a sure thing right now (winning) and don’t think it is wrong for Woody not to trade that for the unknown.
Teague has shown in several games that he is not ready yet and that he is strill struggling to adjust to the speed of the pro games. In recent games he has shown – and even admitted personally – that he was a bit lost.
In the meantime he has regained his confidence and gave us good minutes against Portland. However, you should remember his naive foul against Blake as the time expired which game POR 2 easy and unnecessary points.
He will get there and Woody will use him more and more as the season progresses.
vava74
November 20th, 2009
1:09 pm
Hawks Fan,
If I could, I would attend that game and would get me a new Hawks just for that!
Big Ray
November 20th, 2009
1:15 pm
Speaking of “red” let’s beat that color out of Houston tonight…
Lacsho
November 20th, 2009
1:21 pm
Big Ray- my man 50 grand. How you doing potna? I’m with you on the Houston comment. I actually think this is going to be a tough game. Houston will definitely bring the fight to us.
Daniel
November 20th, 2009
1:23 pm
Lascho- did you really suggest that we should start Teague? Is this about no liking Bibby? Or is this about you still believe that Acie and Salim are secretly superstar players that were held back by Woodson?
niremetal
November 20th, 2009
2:30 pm
Sautee,
Stats never tell the whole story, and Teague’s play right now is NOT my main concern (he is, after all, a rookie), but Teague is shooting 32.6% from the floor. That’s Ed Gray bad. Not only that, but he seems to be relying on his athleticism and quickness-of-hand rather than moving his feet on D. He’s reaching in an awful lot on defense and racking up way more fouls than a guard should be in the minutes he’s getting. I don’t really see any signs yet that he’s ready to be a rotation player.
Again, our top priority should be figuring out how to use Crawford. After that – and I really think this should be just a few games from now – we should start playing Teague more consistently. THAT is my main concern.
Big Ray
November 20th, 2009
2:37 pm
Lacsho ,
Doin’ alright, my man.
Houston will definitely bring it. Wish I had time to throw up a blog for y’all, but I’ll go with my game maker/breaker picks real quick:
Aaron Brooks and Shane Battier.
Battier is one of the elite defenders in the NBA…as good or better than Artest (he has more patience than Artest and is easily less volatile, so Battier gets the edge here). Joe Johnson will get to see more of Battier than he really wants to, believe that. And unlike many in the league, Battier relishes the idea of guarding the league’s better players, more specifically the better one-on-one players. Battier studies and hones his craft on a consistent basis. He studies his opponents. No night against him is an easy one. By far.
Then there’s Aaron Brooks. Dude comes off a screen as quick as Isaiah Thomas, and has a very quick release. In fact, everything ABOUT Brooks is quick. Oh, his shooting percentages aren’t impressive (43.6% FG, 35.5% 3PT), but he’s dangerous. 17.7 ppg at THOSE shooting percentages dangerous. Fail to close out and/or pressure this guy, and he’ll drop 25-30 on you. Quickly.
On the flip side of the ball, Marvin Williams has a chance to shine on defense by putting the clamps on an 18.4 ppg-scoring Trevor Ariza. Perhaps Marvin can permanently bust out of his slump by giving us his usual 12-14 points this game (as he did against Miami, I believe it was), but his impact in THIS game is more likely to be on defense. Then again, you never know. Maybe he makes an impact on both sides of the ball, as Ariza’s defense hasn’t been what it was in L.A., and Battier will be concentrating more of his efforts on the recently very nasty Joe Johnson.
Hmmmmmm….
Another thing. Al and Josh have been doing quite a number on opposing teams lately. It’s been a thing of beauty, and probably the single biggest reason why Joe has scored roughly 29 points per, over the course of the last 5 or 6 games. They’ll get yet another test from a rather resilient/determined/scrappy group in Louis Scola, Carl Landry, and Chuck Hayes. All three are averaging above 5 boards a game, and really you have to include Ariza in that group. Can’t take a night off here…and we’ll need a good showing as well from Zaza and Joe Smith.
Oh yes, one more thing. The Hawks get to take a firsthand look at David Andersen…”The Hawk That Never Was”…..
FOR THE LOVE OF PETE....
November 20th, 2009
2:45 pm
posted by SAUTEE at 12:35 p.m.
I think, as I’ve said, that the main problem is finding Crawford’s precise role first. Once that is firmly in place, I’d envision more minutes for Teague. But to infer that his increased minutes would definitively lead to losses is just conjecture on your part. We have NO way of knowing that.
posted by NIREMETAL at 2:30 p.m.
Again, our top priority should be figuring out how to use Crawford. After that – and I really think this should be just a few games from now – we should start playing Teague more consistently. THAT is my main concern.
When arguing a point ends up as a head on collision
Sautee
November 20th, 2009
3:17 pm
Huh?
For The Love Of Pete Babcock
November 20th, 2009
3:31 pm
[Fatal Error: Does Not Exist]
niremetal
November 20th, 2009
3:46 pm
I was just responding to Sautee’s (and a couple other people’s) posts suggesting that Teague hasn’t been playing badly. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think he most certainly has been playing badly. Quite badly, in fact.
Now, that doesn’t bother me too much. I’m not convinced that he’s the “real deal,” but I’m also not remotely close to being ready to write him off yet (many rookies have a rough start). I don’t disagree with the notion that Teague should be getting more rotation time soon. I just disagree with what Lacsho argued that he should have started getting it already.
doc
November 20th, 2009
4:05 pm
teague is not ready by what i saw on the court in the portland game. as i said earlier he has that acie look about him as where do they want me on the court to stay out of everyones way and avoid a whooping when i get back to the bench.
Lacsho
November 20th, 2009
5:06 pm
Doc, its hard coming off the bench for 3 minutes spurts. How do you get into the flow of the game? I saw a mistake or two, but I see numerous mistakes from the other starters. The difference is they get a chance to play through their mistakes, whereas Teague gets yanked like Acie. If you give this kid minutes, I think he will produce.
Hey I like this dialogue, it’s ok to disagree. Bottom line we’re all Hawks fans. However, on another note, you can’t just go by stats. One must actually view the game. Smash, Big Al, and Marvin do a lot of things that don’t show up on the stat sheet.
Dude-pump your breaks on that Salim comment (lol). I think you got the wrong guy. Perhaps that comment was directed to Sir LInks alot, not me. I don’t dislike Bibby, I think he’d be better utilized coming off the bench.
Peace
Ramon
November 20th, 2009
5:12 pm
Check this article out: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-091121-22