Practice: Beyond closed doors
We all know that regular season games are where the story is told for teams and players. But what about the story behind the story? I’m talking about practice. Yeah, I know. Some are probably reacting to that much like Allen Iverson did (”Practice? Practice!”), but is there not something to be learned from this?
To be honest, I wasn’t thinking too much on the topic myself until talking to fellow Hawks enthusiast Sautee one day, and he put it in a different light. I was droning on about the benefits of having veteran big men Joe Smith and Jason Collins on the roster this year, and how many different frontcourt combinations we could use. And then Sautee said, “This also will probably give these guys some of the best practices they’ve ever had, particularly Horfy and Smoove.” Now you know that’s when I went Iverson. Practice? Practice! We’re talking about practice?! But then he explained, and it dawned on me that he was right in so many ways.
During the regular season, teams don’t see the same opponents every night. And, they may not see certain opponents more than a couple times a year. While the game is on, you don’t have time to work on a move over and over. There is no coach blowing the whistle and saying, “Okay, let’s run that again!” No, it’s perform or ride the pine. We as fans don’t have access to NBA practices, and we don’t think much about it. But this is where players get to work on things. This is where coaches get to work on things. This is where a team as a whole gets to stop, review, and do it over again. No time for that in games.
And for the first time in years, the Hawks should indeed have good, effective practices. Because now they have the personnel to do it. Think about it. If you’re a coach, you want your team to practice in various units. But you have two main units: the starting five, and the bench. Sure, you can mix them up, putting some starters with some reserves, but in the end, you need both units playing exclusively with each other to build chemistry. The starters will spend the most time on the floor more often than not, and they will also spend more time with each other than they will with reserve players. Yet, for this to be effective, the starters need reserves that can push them and compete with them to an extent.
In retrospect, can we say that the Hawks starters have had such a thing over the past few years? Who has Josh Smith been practicing against? Does it help make him better? I doubt it. How about Al Horford. Zaza Pachulia is a good reserve to have, but does practicing against him prepare Horford for what he faces night in and night out? Collins and Smith present a different dynamic to the practice atmosphere, at least for our two “post men.” Collins is a defensive-minded 7-footer with enough size (255 pounds) to offer a daily battle to the shorter and slightly lighter Horford. Where Joe Smith lacks the height and girth, he makes up for it with savvy and the ability to move out to the perimeter some. This mixture should mean better preparation for Al Horford and Josh Smith.
But what of the backcourt? Mo Evans was here last year, and I’m sure he’s had his fair share of guarding Joe Johnson in practice. On the other end of the court, Evans is solid, but certainly nobody that Joe has to follow too very closely. Jamal Crawford is another story. This guy likes to score, and can do it in a number of ways. Joe won’t be able to lay off of him. There isn’t a shot Crawford has met, that he didn’t like (just ask his field goal percentage). And then there is Mike Bibby. He will likely spend time trading jumpers with Crawford at times, but he will be doing so with Jeff Teague as well. More than likely, Bibby will be doing far more for Teague than the other way around. Or will he? Bibby knows the nuances of the game, and Teague can learn a lot from him. But Teague is faster, and Bibby is not exactly a defensive mentor. And word is, Teague can get his own shot. All the same, Bibby is the old bull, and Teague the young one. Practices should be interesting.
Before you say it, no I did NOT forget Marvin Williams. But that is the question. Who does Marvin practice against? Mo Evans is the first name that comes to mind. And while he will give good effort, what can Marvin learn against him, other than how to back a smaller opponent down? Not that this is something to scoff at, as the number of times we’ve seen Marvin do that can be counted on one hand (and not need all of your fingers). But seriously, where’s the challenging matchup? He can practice against Josh Smith, but that requires that you not have your starting five playing together. From this thought alone springs another question about training camp. Do the Hawks need to retain a combo forward or guard/forward combo?
What do y’all think? Do the Hawks need to retain a combo forward or guard/forward other than Mo Evans (he’s signed up for the year, so we can’t just cut him, before anybody suggests that)? Do you think practices will be more competitive and edifying with the new additions?
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96 comments Add your comment
niremetal
September 27th, 2009
8:01 pm
Who does Marvin practice against? . . . From this thought alone springs another question about training camp. Do the Hawks need to retain a combo forward or guard/forward combo?
Othello Hunter, anyone? And my guess is that failing that, you’ll see Joe Smith matching up against Marvin a decent amount during practice. He and Mo Evans will give Marvin different looks. Honestly, Marvin is either going to be taller or quicker than whoever is defending him nearly every night throughout the entire year, so those matchups might not be as far from real-game scenarios as we think, certainly given Mo’s intensity and vastly underrated athleticism and strength.
vava74
September 27th, 2009
9:22 pm
Big Ray,
Your post had an endorsement of Otello’s signing written all over it… we all know that you like him and you should have mentioned it…
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
10:56 pm
One thing at a time, Vava , one thing at a time.
By the way, I wasn’t thinking of Othello Hunter so much as I was thinking about something Nire said to me a while back. And, I’m not totally sold on the idea that he must be signed. I would like to see it happen, but there are some other things bangin’ around the ol’ belfrey at the moment, and we need to see how they play out.
HB Ando
September 27th, 2009
11:40 pm
My head must not be quite right, because after seeing my partners’ title for this blog submission, I can’t get the hook line, from an old 70’s song, out of my head:
“Cause when we get behind closed doors, and when she lets her hair hang down…….”
Wow, don’t know what to make of that. But feeling confident that no less than doc and Sautee, if not several other folks, will get a chuckle…….
Been thinking about our updated charter, from the AJC, to represent the “fan experience”.
Hmmmm, “Are you experienced?”
vava74
September 28th, 2009
5:41 am
I also think that Marvin needs a tall and physical opponent as a secondary practice/reserve squad opponent.
My view on practice is that it essential: team sports are a tight balance between individual talent, collective compatibility and repetition of set situations on practice.
It’s not a coincidence that Phil Jackson’s teams have been successful: the triangle offense implies a discipline which emerges out of practice: learn the system individually and then learn how to execute it in a team concept.
By the way, Woody knows that he reached the 47 win mark and the playoffs sacrificing important things (freshness and more varied offense):
“You can complain all you want about how we did it, but we did it. My belief is that you push to take the next step and for bigger and better things than you’ve done before. …”
Now, we need to determine if these words are a showing of stubbornness or an acknowledgement that, first we had to establish ourselves as a playoff team, and now we need to establish ourselves as an elite team to, within 2 years, be a contender…
vava74
September 28th, 2009
7:56 am
… and that for this, we need an evolution on the way the roster is managed and in our playbook.
Sautee
September 28th, 2009
8:07 am
Nire,
Yeah, when Ray and I had that conversation, I mentioned both Hunter and Joe Smith as possible practice foes for Marvin. But we really need Smith to challenge Josh, who had Solo to work against last year. I’d say that’s a big point in favor of signing O.
And Ray, when have you EVER heard me call Al Horford “Horfy”? I know, literary license and all that. But NEVER have I used that sophomoric term, even if he DID just finish his sophomore season.
And, just to please doc, I’ve stopped calling Josh “Smoove”. I usually just say Josh, but at times, when he’s earned it, I’ll borrow doc’s J-Smash.
Vava74,
You said this about Woodson: “Now, we need to determine if these words are a showing of stubbornness or an acknowledgement that, first we had to establish ourselves as a playoff team, and now we need to establish ourselves as an elite team to, within 2 years, be a contender…”
Let’s hope so. But I’d say that mainly it’s for Sund to determine.
Sautee
September 28th, 2009
8:10 am
“… and that for this, we need an evolution on the way the roster is managed and in our playbook.”
EXACTLY!
jhan
September 28th, 2009
8:23 am
Ando – have you ever been experienced? Well, I have……
vava74
September 28th, 2009
9:13 am
The issue at stake is that I am willing to give Woody the benefit of the doubt due to several factors:
1. I believe that he is still evolving as a HC and that we should allow him to prove the doubters wrong.
2. There are several ways of evolving as a team in the food chain called NBA and sometimes it is important to leave some good practices on hold (extended rotations, large play-books, …) and concentrate in getting in the playoffs and stop being seen as the laughing-stock of the league.
I elaborate: if Woody had selected to use a dilated rotation, tried to develop the Acie’s and Solo’s, and tried to depend less from JJ, we could have missed the playoffs two years ago and last year we could have been a lower seed and fallen in the first round (or even missed the playoffs again, since the good vibes of the Boston series would not be there).
Right now, most predictions point us out as being a solid #4 seed in the East, and that is already an psychological advantage as we enter this coming year.
However, this is the year to move forward on those particular aspects, we need to, at least solidify the #4 seed and look to reach #3 spot AND have a good showing on the second round of the playoffs.
vava74
September 28th, 2009
9:14 am
The issue at stake is that I am willing to give Woody the benefit of the doubt due to several factors:
1. I believe that he is still evolving as a HC and that we should allow him to prove the doubters wrong.
2. There are several ways of evolving as a team in the food chain called NBA and sometimes it is important to leave some good practices on hold (extended rotations, large play-books, …) and concentrate in getting in the playoffs and stop being seen as the laughing-stock of the league.
I elaborate: if Woody had selected to use a dilated rotation, tried to develop the Acie’s and Solo’s, and tried to depend less from JJ, we could have missed the playoffs two years ago and last year we could have been a lower seed and fallen in the first round (or even missed the playoffs again, since the good vibes of the Boston series would not be there).
Right now, most predictions point us out as being a solid #4 seed in the East, and that is already an psychological advantage as we enter this coming year.
However, this is the year to move forward on those particular aspects (expand rotation and playbook), we need to, at least solidify the #4 seed and look to reach #3 spot AND have a good showing on the second round of the playoffs.
Sautee
September 28th, 2009
10:03 am
vava74,
about this: “I elaborate: if Woody had selected to use a dilated rotation, tried to develop the Acie’s and Solo’s, and tried to depend less from JJ, we could have missed the playoffs two years ago and last year we could have been a lower seed and fallen in the first round (or even missed the playoffs again, since the good vibes of the Boston series would not be there).”
This is conjecture on your part. Yes, we COULD have missed the playoffs, or fallen to a lower seed. We ALSO could have had the same seed with less fatigue for the starters. Or we may have actually won more games.
We have NO way of knowing how that might have turned out. At best we can guess.
But I’ll say this: I never remember a single game that I thought either Solo OR Acie was costing us the game with their mistakes. Of course, the less they play, the less chance of that happening.
What I remember most is how they would have productive outings followed by dnp-cd.
And this is not a Woody rant, as that is “old business” as they say. But let’s not re-write Woodson’s history with conjecture, ok?
I understand your point that “business as usual” may take the back burner at times. But from Woody’s comments, even HE realizes that the way he chose was less than ideal.
vava74
September 28th, 2009
10:23 am
Sautee,
You highlighted the right word on my sentences “COULD” not “would”.
Hence, I was never affirming that what I saying was true. I know that this is a mere conjecture.
What I meant is that it is quite evident that this was a conscious and deliberate choice with this specific objective: diminish the space for error and take a “safe route” towards the playoffs even if that meant accepting some negative effects.
I also mention that this is no longer an option and that I hope that Woody is ready to progress.
doc
September 28th, 2009
12:55 pm
id favor something more like “all along the watchtower” for this organization. hopefully the confusion is over and we can see some positive results as we the princes watch and wait for the relief..
Big Ray
September 28th, 2009
4:00 pm
Sautee ,
Pardon the misrepresentation of your use of nicknames.
Sautee
September 28th, 2009
4:18 pm
Big Ray,
No problem. As I said, I knew it was pure literary license. And I’m CERTAIN that I’ve misquoted you somewhere along the line. So pardon that, if you will and we’ll be even.
junebaby
September 28th, 2009
4:55 pm
i’ve just read a review(ballerblogger.com) that had marvin listed at about 29th among small fowards! one of the things that stood out, “he wouldn’t be able to start on any other team in the league”. actually they didn’t have anything nice to say about him, basically calling him a wasted 1st rd pick. maybe he should read that article and let it motivate him(like so many other players do). sort of proving his detractors wrong. i don’t know if there are 28 better small forwards than him, but it’s definitely time to raise his game after 4 mediocre yrs as a starter, and maybe shed that soft tag, so many people lable him with
Sautee
September 28th, 2009
9:11 pm
Rod will be thrilled.
Big Ray
September 28th, 2009
9:32 pm
Sautee ,
Ha! And here I was trying to think of a good act of penance. How about we just make official nicknames: J-Smash (in honor of the good doctor) and Big Al. We can even do a music video with charicatures of the two of them, and lip sync a Paul Simon song into it: “You can be my bodyguard and I will be your long lost pal…callll meeee Al…”
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
9:55 pm
Exellent Post Ray, We need STACKHOUSE!!!! Get him in here Rick!!!!
Oh, and sekou has a new blog up….and on the old blog I linked the stuff From Hawks Media Day go check it out guys!!!!!
Oh and Sekou has new articles out!!!
Big Ray
September 28th, 2009
10:11 pm
Junebaby ,
That is an interesting review on Marvin. I read the whole thing on the ranking of small forwards.
I can certainly understand the disappointment in production from a #2 pick overall, but we’ve been over that. In the end, draft positions say much more about what an organiztion thinks a player can do in the NBA, and about their college stats, then they do about the players themselves, and how their games will translate to the NBA. But, it’s much easier to scapegoat the player.
Okay, so Marvin finished with 13.9 ppg and 6.3 rpg last season. Okay, so stats aren’t the whole story, as guys like Luol Deng were injured for much of last year. But what is this guy using to rank people, exactly? He has Jarvis Hayes ranked ahead of Marvin. Jarvis Hayes?? Talk about somebody who wouldn’t start on most teams! If someone like Marvin is a disappointment, then what is a guy like Hayes (who I actually like), who has yet to play more than 42 games in a season (in 6 NBA seasons), and has NEVER, I repeat NEVER approached Marvin’s stats to this date. Hayes doesn’t even start for his own team. Marvin does. How do the Marvin comments and this guy’s rankings reconcile with each other?
But it’s not just Marvin that he has ranked oddly. The guy also has Rudy Gay ranked eight spots below Gerald Wallace. Huh?? He ranks Corey Maggette 27th. A guy who gives you 21 and 5 a season as long as he’s healthy enough to play 60+ games, 17 or so a game when he’s not. How is that better than Gerald Wallace, whom the guy ranks 9th, and ahead of guys like Tayshaun Prince, Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, Andrei Kirilenko, Rudy Gay, Thaddeus Young, Grant Hill, and Luol Deng. Riiiight….
As for that ranking, here are guys who outranked Marvin on that list, but either produced the same or less, statistically: Ryan Gomes, Jarvis Hayes, Michael Beasley, Travis Outlaw, Trevor Ariza, and Mikael Pietrus.
No, stats do not tell the whole story, but they do tell part of it. For instance, there is a valid argument that Pietrus is a 2, not a 3 (same could be said of Gerald Wallace), and Beasley deserves to go higher if he can prove that he’s more like the basketball player that shattered Kevin Durant’s college stats for a freshman, and less like somebody that makes Rashad McCants and David Harrison look sane.
Big Ray
September 28th, 2009
10:12 pm
Ariose ,
Much appreciated. The words, and the link.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
10:47 pm
I haven’t read the SF rankings you guys are refering to and I don’t plan on it lol. From Ray’s post I can tell it’s not worth my time.
HB Ando
September 29th, 2009
12:27 am
Sautee, “dilated” rotation? I thought you were a musician, not an OB/GYN. From the good doc I could expect such a term, but from whence do you derive your dilection of the term dilation in such a context?
Hmmm……
Ed
September 29th, 2009
2:23 am
Stack would be the perfect foil for Marvin in practice not to mention subbing for him when the real games start.
vava74
September 29th, 2009
6:05 am
doc,
is there any hidden meaning connected to the hawks in your use of bob dylan’s lyrics?
vava74
September 29th, 2009
8:46 am
Ando,
I used “dilated” and no, I’m not a MD.
It may not be the most currently used verb associated with roster use, however, you cannot argue with the dictionary:
di⋅late [dahy-leyt, di-, dahy-leyt] Show IPA verb, -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing.
–verb (used with object)
1. to make wider or larger; cause to expand.
2. Archaic. to describe or develop at length.
–verb (used without object)
3. to spread out; expand.
4. to speak or write at length; expatiate (often fol. by on or upon).
MannyT
September 29th, 2009
10:30 am
Kicking off the season with country music basketball talk…hmmm
Maybe that’s how they roll in the Hawks locker room
After all the post season roster moves, it is revealing that the one guy who has the least bench strength behind him is the oft-maligned Marvin Williams. He is the guy best suited to guard the premiere small forwards. Aside from LeBron, he brings some kind of advantage in almost every match up. He’s either quicker or physically larger than his opponent.
JJ & Marvin are the only starters that are usually more physically dominant than their opponent.
Marvin will be the key in the same way that Zaza was the only reliable big with bulk in prior seasons.
When the fan nest moves to evaluating the concession areas, let me know. I’ll be happy to investigate the value buys.
BWAF
Sautee
September 29th, 2009
10:44 am
Ray,
I like both nicknames.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
11:09 am
Lamar Odum=WOW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDPwKYEjUG8&feature=sub
Daniel
September 29th, 2009
11:18 am
Big Ray- nice blog, glad to have it back. Now, what do I have to do to get quoted? Man, Sautee getting props…. well, deserved.
Rod from College Park
September 29th, 2009
11:19 am
“i’ve just read a review(ballerblogger.com) that had marvin listed at about 29th among small fowards! one of the things that stood out, “he wouldn’t be able to start on any other team in the league”. actually they didn’t have anything nice to say about him, basically calling him a wasted 1st rd pick. maybe he should read that article and let it motivate him(like so many other players do). sort of proving his detractors wrong. i don’t know if there are 28 better small forwards than him, but it’s definitely time to raise his game after 4 mediocre yrs as a starter, and maybe shed that soft tag, so many people lable him with.”
Wow. Maybe I work for ballerblogger.com. It’s not hard to realize these things about Marvin. Marvin only scores the points that he does as a function of Joe being double or triple teamed. There are a number of NBA caliber SF who can hit a wide open jumpshot or a 3 pointer when the defense leaves them wide open. I would not rank him 29th, but he is in the 20’s. If he is able to raise his level of play, and become a real scoring threat, you might see the Hawks in the conference finals. As I have stated many times, out of all of our starters Marvin is the weak link. He might play defense better than that Bibby, but he won’t make you pay on the other end of the floor like Bibby can. Teams are scared to leave Bibby open, not Marvin or Josh. But at least Josh will get to the rim, when he is not taking stupid jumpshots. Hurt or not, I saw Lebron almost daring him and Josh to shoot in the playoffs. Again I will state like I said earlier in the year, that come playoff time, just like last year with Flip, our most productive lineup will come with Marvin on the bench. Bibby (Teague), Crawford, Joe, Josh and Horford will be on the floor in crunch time. Especially in the matchups with Cleveland and Boston. Our problem in the playoffs was scoring or going long stretches without scoring, not defense.
Rod from College Park
September 29th, 2009
11:22 am
Manny T,
“He’s either quicker or physically larger than his opponent.”
Physically larger (yes). Quicker (NO!!!!!).
Sautee
September 29th, 2009
12:36 pm
Rod,
That’s the most balanced view I’ve seen you take of Marvin. Good job.
Did you actually DEFEND him? (not 29th but in the 20’s) WOW!
And I agree with much of what you said.
O'Brien
September 29th, 2009
2:11 pm
I dont know if Othello is the kind of guy to push Marvin in practice. But I dont know if Gerald Green is the answer either.
With JJ not signing the extension, it magnifies even more the move that Sund made for Crawford. Someone mentioned it (maybe it was Ray) that trading for Crawford along with helping the team this year, it is also insurance for next year, in case we lose JJ.
If JJ wants to leave the Hawks, then it might be possible to do a sign and trade. And with Crawford in the mix, it would give the Hawks more options.
That being said, I hope JJ resigns with the Hawks.
doc
September 29th, 2009
3:04 pm
vava 74, yeah there is more to it than face value. check the words out and you might see some of it. btw good discourse with the regulars here.
Sautee
September 29th, 2009
3:29 pm
Manny T,
“When the fan nest moves to evaluating the concession areas, let me know. I’ll be happy to investigate the value buys.”
You can review the popcorn and doc the pretzels. I’ll review the beer and Clyde the bourbon.
junebaby
September 29th, 2009
4:07 pm
i would agree that marvin has more value to his team than that 29th ranking would indicate. but this ranking, or something close to it seems to be the prevailing view around the league(writers). why don’t he receive more credit for what he brings to the floor. is he an underachiever, or is it because he’s injured so often? with his size at that spot, shouldn’t he be posting smaller 3’s more often, aver. more than 14 pts a game at this stage in his career. or maybe as r.f.c.p. says, coming in with the 2nd unit!
Sautee
September 29th, 2009
5:32 pm
Ando’s and doc’s musical quotations sent me on a long trip that I’ll now pass on to you all. I’ve been reading Mark Lewisohn’s excellent book The Complete Beatles Chronicle and I started wondering which Beatles song I would dedicate to my favorite players and team. So, with that in mind, here you go:
For distributors Mike Bibby and Jeff Teague: From Me To You
For Josh Smith and Mike Woodson: We Can Work It Out
For Mike Woodson: All Together Now
For Josh Smith: Flying
For Mario West and his unrelenting defense: Eight Days A Week
For Al Horford: Carry That Weight
For Marvin Williams: Getting Better
For the much traveled Jamal Crawford: Here, There, and Everywhere
For Flip Murray: Hello, Goodbye
For 34 year old Joe Smith: Yesterday (yes, that was cold)
For no extension Joe Johnson: Don’t Let Me Down
For 08-09 Joe Johnson: I’m So Tired
For Josh Childress: Love Me Do (or should it be Love Me Fro)
For Yaroslav Korolev: Back In The USSR
For Sekou Smith: Paperback Writer
For Rick Sund: Fixing A Hole
For Billy Knight: I Should Have Known Better
For HB Ando: Get Back (to where you once belonged)
For Big Ray: Happiness Is A Warm Gun
For Sautee: Fool On The Hill
For doc: The Inner Light, OR, Doctor Robert
For Manny T and Niremetal: Money (That’s What I Want)
For truth-serum: All You Need Is Love
For The 09-10 Hawks: With A Little Help From My Friends
For The BASG: Baby, You’re A Rich Man
For our 7 year rebuilding project: The Long And Winding Road
For our Championship aspirations: Let It Be
Rod from College Park
September 29th, 2009
5:35 pm
junebaby,
He does not receive more credit around the league because he does not deserve any. Yes, he has been an underachiever, he is injury prone, he should be dominate with his size and wingspan at his position, and he should be able to post any small forward in the league and demand a double team, but he can’t. On this team with his skill set and ability to hit the open jumpshot, along with the fact that Joe commands a double team everytime he gets the ball, he should be a 20 point a nite scorer easily. He should be a dominant player on the level of Danny Granger, Durant or Melo, but he is not even close. Only my opinion, and apparently other people agree also.
South ga boy
September 29th, 2009
7:01 pm
Don’t know why ppl r always on Marvin. There s only 1 ball and 1 basket. When u have a pg who main contribution is scoring, along with jj, then thereis only so many points we need from Marvin. When teague takes over and we have a more conventional pg who distributes, plays def, and runs the break then Marvin will go from 14 to 20 plus a game. Don’t get me wrong, I like bibby but with his lack of def he has to be a scorer to give value to the team. It s begining to look like Marvin will have a chance to become a bigger scorer in 13 months because it seems jj is determined to leave the Atl. Good thing Sund picked up Crawford.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:14 pm
Micah Bolgs About the 1st day of Actual Play:
http://www.hawksbasketblog.com/2009/09/29/hawks-open-2009-training-camp/
J-Smoove interview with Hometeam Brandon Leak:
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/opening_night_2009.html
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:15 pm
AJC Media Day Photos:
http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/sports/hawks/hawks-camp-2009/
AJC Training Camp Photos:
http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/sports/hawks/hawks-open-camp-2009/
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:15 pm
Hawks Offical Website now has Training Camp Central:
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/2009_training_camp_central.html
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:16 pm
Tweeet From Hawks PR Man Arthur Triche:
“Hawks participating in annual media training seminar. In addition 2 reminding them of their obligations, informing them about social media.”
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:17 pm
Hawks Website(Micah Heart) Photo gallery from the first day of camp: http://bit.ly/4jNImB
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:17 pm
Mike Bibby rocks the flip cam: http://bit.ly/169gBw
New blog post: Mike Bibby Rocks The Flip Cam http://bit.ly/44fnyl #hawk
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
7:19 pm
Sautee,
Here’s a few you left off:
Woody’s offense: “Helter Skelter”
Billy Knight 2: “Don’t Bother Me”
Acie Law: Free As a Bird
Mario West II: “Here, There, and Everywhere”
Flip Murray: “Ticket to Ride”
A certain blogger I’ll let you guess: “I Am the Walrus”
And I prefer “Come Together” as the song for the ‘09-’10 Hawks.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:28 pm
Crawford ready to fill role as Hawks’ scorer off bench:
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/09/29/hawks.camp.ap/
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
7:35 pm
PS – Anyone else around here get the new Beatles Remasters yet? If not, you need to. Amazing.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:36 pm
Whoo!!! I Found it!!!!Hah!!!!
http://www.nba.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0907/summerdeals09/content.21.html
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:45 pm
Nire, Havent heard them yet but looking forward to it.
Sautee
September 29th, 2009
7:51 pm
Nire,
Good ones.
You can’t afford cable but you bought the remasters?
Hey, I can appreciate the priorities!
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
8:39 pm
Hawks geting third Jersey!!!!
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/29/1061212/hawks-getting-a-third-jersey
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
8:42 pm
I bet there gonna be red, Or the old retro ones we wore with the old uni’s I like that one too…
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
8:46 pm
langwhitaker RT @YahooSportsNBA Delonte West missed his second straight practice Tuesday night. Associate says he’s in his Cleve apartment.
junebaby
September 29th, 2009
9:22 pm
does anyone have an idea of what the last 1/3 of the roster will look like, or should look like?? is there ANY CHANCE the hawks will make a move before camp breaks? i like the make-up as it stands, but i hear all the clamor about Jerry Stackhouse, and i’m wondering how he feels about the hawks? could we afford him? and would the minutes be there? i’m not so concerned about the minutes, as it’s a long long season(injuries, susp’s etc.), but moreso attitude(with his hist. of clocking people in the past). there have been times in the past when he let his emotions get the better of him. now, fire and desire is a good thing, but i’m wondering.
junebaby
September 29th, 2009
9:41 pm
SOUTH GA. BOY,… good points, but i’m thinking if he posted more it wouldn’t need to be a lot of extra shots for him, just natural ball movement that would possibly free up more shots for smoove and horford, and less reliance on long jump shots. and better rebounding position for him also. and we know how the hawks struggle at times if jj and bibby aren’t knocking down those j’s
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
10:35 pm
Sautee,
It was an easy decision
Choice A: $50 (or more) each and every month on a cable package featuring “Who Wants to Screw My Sister” and “The Liechtenstein Poker Championships” (not real shows, but you get the drift)
or…
Choice B: $180 on a one-time investment into the entire remastered discography of what I think is still the greatest band that ever was.
Seriously, all I’d watch on TV would be NBA games and tennis matches (which are never televised except during the Slams). Gimme the Beatles and TV on DVD, and I’m set for life
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
10:35 pm
Oh, sorry – I need NBA League Pass Broadband too. And then I’m set for life.
Big Ray
September 29th, 2009
11:32 pm
WOW.
Y’all have really taken this musical reference to new heights!
Big Ray
September 29th, 2009
11:34 pm
Ariose ,
As always, thanks for the links. And if you can, link us back…
seed
September 29th, 2009
11:49 pm
Wow Big Ray!
U a bad boy!
Have you no shame?
http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/339651-we-talkin-about-practice/
Looks like you got a bright future working for the New York Times.
Melvin
September 29th, 2009
11:58 pm
Aroise, thanks for the link to here.
I’m in the Nest yall, I’m in the nest yall
My name is Melvin and I came to rant and shout yall
I’m in the Nest yall, I’m in the nest yall
I’m gonna be here to the Hawks season plays out yall…
Big Ray
September 30th, 2009
2:53 am
Seed ,
I hate to disappoint you, but I must say that your dagger has missed it’s mark.I don’t read Hawksquawk. No particular reason, other than that I’ve always read Micah Hart’s stuff on the NBA.com link to the Hawks, and Hawks Beat Writer Sekou Smith (both guys are great at what they do).
However, I followed your link and I now see the comments you and other members of that site made. It would seem that our thought patterns were somewhat similar, at least where Allen Iverson’s famous and much-used quote is concerned. I also see that we agree the practices should be intense. Beyond that, I fail to see any cognitive similarities. I give public credit to anybody that I quote, and the only person who had any input to my blog topic (besides me) was Sautee . I can’t quote what I don’t know about, and I have a hard time apologizing for having a couple of the same thoughts as another person.
I am not doing this as a source of income, don’t have (nor am I interested in) a career in journalism (particularly not in New York), and don’t see the point in committing plaigaristic acts, especially by trying to glean something from a chat room or other blog. The only thing more distasteful than doing that is falsely accusing someobody of such an act. Or are you also going to take credit for the rest of my thoughts in this blog post? That , my friend, would be shameful.
Having said that, I hope you come back and share your thoughts on the Hawks, and the fan experience. If not, no hard feelings.
Big Ray
September 30th, 2009
2:55 am
Melvin ,
Glad to see you! And the blog should be on the front Hawks page by now, so you should not have an issue getting to it. Looking forward to your comments, as always.
seed
September 30th, 2009
6:50 am
Come on Big Ray.
…y’all in here talkin’ bout… practice… practice…
If I can’t get my props and what not. Nobody wanna face the music then… “Dat’s Dat”.
I mean, if the overall theme and the twist is gonna get ripped like that then… “that’s enough”.
If I write a post and it get’s ripped then… it got ripped… simple as that…
It ain’t about that… it’s not about that at all… but it’s easy to sum it up… Y’all talkin’ bout… practice.
The least y’all can do is give me a one day press pass. I wont even sign my name to the write up. I mean I can work for free too. I’ve already done it once?
I mean, we sittin in here… I’m tryin to be the franchise and you gone give me an 18 page retort. I know you gotta write articles and this and that but bro… You say it’s different, but everything of substance in this article is covered in the other one and now you gone get outraged? You gone get Jazzy? How in the world you gone make this better by gettin’ Jazzy…
I mean cut your losses bro. How y’all gone be over here talkin’ bout… practice. When we already over there talkin’ bout… practice.
niremetal
September 30th, 2009
7:14 am
Seed,
Except for the fact that both posts mentioned AI’s famous “practice” rant and the rather obvious point that a deeper team should result in tougher and more intense practices, what exactly did the Hawksquawk post cover? Get real.
Sautee
September 30th, 2009
9:22 am
Seed,
Ray’s topic came from a phone conversation he and I had over Labor Day Weekend. He decided then to save it for when the fan blog re-opened.
You’re deluded if you think Hawksquawk had anything to do with it. Labor Day is BEFORE Sept. 22nd., by the way.
Personally, I NEVER read Hawksquawk because I was put off by the way certain fools would come on Sekou’s blog and plug themselves shamelessly. It got old.
doc
September 30th, 2009
3:09 pm
seed, you da fool dude. shame your seed didnt bring any fruit. try squawking somewhere else. finally, dont need the squawk to keep conversations going here. practice line is too easy anyway to claim plagerism, used it plenty of times to make points. ai is a hall of famer for nothing else for that classic one.
Big Ray
September 30th, 2009
4:50 pm
Seed ,
Thanks for coming back. I knew you would.
Once again I hate to disappoint, but I don’t have the authority to grant a “one day press pass.” I’m not a member of the press. Incidentally, “working for free” is not the same as “not doing this for a source of income.” I’ll leave the nuances of those two phrases for you to ponder.
Sorry if my 3 and 1/4 paragraph response to your mildly-understandable-but-false accusations seemed excessive. The fact that you see it as an 18 page retort makes me wonder how you managed to compare a handful of spaced out sentences over several posts, to an 800-1000 word blog post that contains a complete thought……
I have to admit, you are entertaining!
Well, I won’t belabor the point. I hope you’re not upset with national writers and television producers as well, because they all have been writing about practices, all have mentioned Iverson’s famous words, and are even featuring training camps. How dare they! Surely no two people in the world could possibly think about the same thing at any given time. It’s just not possible, right?
Anyhow, if you’ve made it to the 19th page of this retort, I’ll extend the invitation again to bring your basketball knowledge and ideas, and share them here. You can even use your Hawksquawk name if you want (Sasquatch), instead of Seed. That way nobody will ever doubt what YOU said, versus what anybody else said. Although, I hope you don’t get upset if somebody has the same thought and posts it either before or after you do. Happens all the time. It certainly did on your blog site, from what I read….
Sautee
September 30th, 2009
5:50 pm
“When I’m out there, I don’t want to come out,” Johnson said. “I just pay the price later. In the heat of the battle, I don’t ever want to come out.”
That’s why Johnson cringes every time he hears complaints about Woodson playing him too much.
“I can’t put a lot of that on coach,” he said. “You have to put it on me, because even when he asks me if I want a break or if I’m tired, I always say no. Even if I’m tired and I can’t breathe, I still tell him no. That’s not me being selfish. I’m just a competitor to the point that I feel like I can really do something to help my team win.”
Joe, TRUST YOUR TEAMMATES!
And you are kidding yourself. It IS being selfish (or at the very least shortsighted) if you are fatigued enough that you can’t breathe, but think YOU can do better than a rested teammate. I like the competitiveness, but don’t hurt the team. This troubles me.
doc
September 30th, 2009
6:22 pm
sautee, though ti may sound good to him and that he is a supreme competitor, it i downright insulting to coach and his team mates. a warrior knows how to come into battle refreshed and ready to win not lose. kobe had to learn, he does too. maybe his coach will get some balls or see the same thing we do from the sidelines, a gassed and ineffective player at the end of games. sorry nire too few steals pr blocks last year to consider him other than an offensive minded player. took time off on defense is my guess to catch his wind.
Sautee
September 30th, 2009
7:28 pm
Seed,
KCFlightt says you stole the phrase “Get Jazzy”.
And you accuse RAY of plagiarism?
Just kidding, man. C’mon back and visit again.
MannyT
September 30th, 2009
7:35 pm
@Rod–Marvin is bigger than most folks that play the 3 except LeBron. There are odd situations like the big front court experiment in Toronto last season where he would clearly be quicker than C/SF Bargiani.
@ray & @sautee I believe I used the word practice on multiple occasions last season. I’ll turn this matter over to the (virtually) local barrister, niremetal, for further review as I look to retain his services for this coup that may end up on the People’s Court. However, you might be able to settle out of court for another complete musical collection (U2, Sting, Billy Joel?). Niremetal, as long as I get to turn the CDs into MP3s I’m sure we can share
As for selfish JJ–it is a part of who he is. It is Woody’s job to see the physical cues and take him out. I don’t blame either for wanting him in the game. However, it probably hurts Woody’s job prospects more if JJ makes errors due to fatigue.
Nice job of the ASG to swap flood donations for free tix to October Hawks & Thrashers games.
BWAF
doc
September 30th, 2009
8:25 pm
manny t, i beg your pardon. i said it first, that i WAS indeed the first to use the phrase practice in the appropriate context of the game of basketball on this blog. you sir are an imposter. ray take him in for a blog collar and the hearing will begin when nire is ready.
SWATlantadolfan
September 30th, 2009
8:38 pm
STACKHOUSE
MannyT
September 30th, 2009
8:43 pm
But doc, I capitalized it at the beginning of a sentence.
chuckw/deadjournalist
September 30th, 2009
9:32 pm
ando – if i show up at a game wearing a charlie rich tee (which i own, straight-up ‘70 heat-seal) you’ll know it’s me.
the contention already around here … not exactly mid-season form, but dang.
i’ll recount something i heard in an interview with the yankees v.p. of operations early today. (and yes, i know there are significant differences between baseball and basketball, but hear me out.)
one of the things he was talking about was how the yankees have process and procedure for everything – everything – the team does. this includes how they run drills at practice – not just at the major league level but throughout their entire system. practice is critical and with both sports having a long season the best time to institute most effective habits are in the pre-season.
i’ve said it several times in the last few years – and it’s one of the reasons why i still think ‘rio has a chance to stick again this season – practice does matter. who wouldn’t like to see ‘rio in teague’s grill or crawford just because you know he isn’t going to back down or go away.
here’s another important point – the team has to learn to finish teams. how many times last season did they let a lesser team back in the game in the 3rd quarter? that’s focus and intensity. can practice cure that? probably less than maturity can – but it’s another reason this deeper bench is important.
when was the last time would the hawks be able to pull all their starters off the court if they were stinkin’ up the joint and replacement with effective, nba -caliber players? that’s what the team can do now.
82 games is a long season but, just like in baseball, a bad stretch early in the season can come back to bite a team if they aren’t focused and effective from game one.
doc
September 30th, 2009
10:34 pm
CAPITAL, YOU MEAN CAPITAL! WHAT IS SO IMPORTANT ABOUT CAPITALS!
it will be thrown out.
Ariose
September 30th, 2009
11:13 pm
Photo gallery from Day 2 of Hawks training camp: http://bit.ly/p4Qps
Micah Blogs about Day 2 of training camp:
http://bit.ly/eq9OU
~Sir Links A Lot~
Ariose
September 30th, 2009
11:15 pm
Re Post for those of you who havent been overat Sekous spot in a min:
Peachtree Hoops has some VERY good new entries in. Check them out!!! Oh, and a few good ones about JJ…
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
The guy over at Hoopinion got in on the mix as well…CHECK IT OUT!!!! GOOD STUFF
http://www.hoopinionblog.com/
WTF!!!
September 30th, 2009
11:25 pm
WHAT THE HELL, WHY ARE YALL MAD @ JOE CAUSE HE WON’T SIGN , DAMN IF YALL CAN READ AND STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT BIGGER THEN WHAT IT IS, HE CLEARLY SAID HE’S NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT NOW, WHY??? CAUSE THAT WILL CAUSE SO MUCH ATTENTION ON HIM, HE TOLD YALL HE IS WORRIED ABOUT THE TEAM, AND TAKEN THEM TO THE NEXT LEVEL, THE HAWKS HAD ALL SUMMER TO OFFER HIM , AND NOW WHEN TRAINING CAMP COMES THEY WANT TO DO IT, THATS NOT HOW U HANDLE BUSINESS, ITS PRACTICE TIME, U DO THAT ON UR OWN TIME, AND THATS THE OFF SEASON, AND YALL KEEP COMPARING JOE TO WADE AND JAMES, HE WOULD KILL BOTH OF THEM 1 ON 1, AND U SEE WHAT HE DID TO KOBE LAST YEAR HELD HIM UNDER 15 POINTS, AND CROSSED HIM OVER, I DONT KNOW WHAT GAMES YALL LOOKIN AT, I GUESS CAUSE HE’S NOT ON SPORTCENTER TOP 10 EVERY NIGHT DUNKIN ON PEOPLE OR CAUSE HES NOT ON ANY COMMERCIALS, YALL FORGOT IF IT WASNT FOR HIM THERE WOULDNT BE NO PLAYOFFS, NO MORE THEN 13 GAMES WON, NO GAME 7 AGAINST THE CELTICS, NO SECOND ROUND AGAINST CLEVELAND, HE GAVE WADE THE BUSINESS SHOOTING EVERY WHERE ON HIS ASS EVEN FROM THE WING OF THE BIRD, BUT YALL STILL WANT TO DOG THIS MAN, HE PLAYED THROUGH A SPRAINED ANKLE, AND NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT NOTHING, NOW THATS A PLAYER WITH HEART, WADE, KOBE, AND JAMES, HAD A SUPPORTING CAST THAT THEY CAN DUMP IT OFF TO ANYTIME THEY WILL MAKE A SHOT, JOE DIDNT, ITS NOT ABOUT HOW MANY POINTS YOU SCORING ITS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS, KOBE HAS ONE CAUSE OF SHAQ, WADE HAS ONE BECAUSE OF SHAQ AND OTHER ALLSTARS ON THE TEAM, LEBRON HES OUT THE PICTURE HE SUCKS EVERYTIME IN THE PLAYOFFS, YALL JUST SOME D!@% RIDERS, DONT KNOW NOTHING BOUT A GAME, AND DONT WATCH I SEE, JUST A BUNCH OF BLOGGERS TRYING TO GET ATTENTION, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY YALL THE ONES UPSET, BLOWING YALL BRAINS OUT, WHILE THEY JUST CHILLIN LAUGHING AT YALL ASS, WHILE THEY GETTIN PAYED AND HITTING THE CLUB AFTER A WIN OR LOSE POPPING BOTTLES ON YALL LAMES, KEEP HATING ON HIM AND WISH HIM AWAY, I PROMISE BASKETBALL WILL NOT BE THE SAME AROUND HERE, IT WILL BE BACK TO 13 GAMES, MAR MY WORD, AND WHOS SAYS JOSH SMITH CAN CARRY THE TEAM, MAN PLEASE, KILL YO SELF, HE CANT DRIBBLE OR SHOOT, NO LOW POST MOVES AT ALL, ALL HE CAN DO IS GIVE U ONE GOOD BLOCK, AND A HIGHLIGHT DUNK, BIBBY CAN SHOOT BUT NO DEFENSE, AL CAN REBOUND BUT NO OFFENSE AND JUST A LIL DEFENSE, BUT KNO LOW POST MOVES, MARVIN TOO CLUMSEY,AND YALL CAN BLAME IT ON THE COACH ALL DAY, HE JUST DONT HAVE THE PLAYERS, BUT JOE THATS WHY HE USED HIM SO MUCH, GET YALL FACTS RIGHT MAN BUT THE HAWKS WILL BE BETTER THEN EVER THIS YEAR, THIS IS THE SUPRISE TEAM, GO HAWKS!!! AND JOE JOHNSON #2 ALOT OF YALL HATE HIM BUT I PROMISE MANY MORE PEOPLE LOVE HIM!!!! REMBER THAT!!
HB Ando
October 1st, 2009
12:00 am
This may be a first, but I don’t think I’ve ever offered a complete response, to another blogger, that was summed up by that blogger’s handle. That being said, to “WTF???”
WTF???
For all those folks out there who believe ADHD isn’t a real clinical condition (ok, or maybe just your everyday crack habit), I give you “WTF???”.
LOL…..
O'Brien
October 1st, 2009
3:03 pm
Now that we have Crawford, I hope JJ will realize that he can take a break. JJ needs to be fresh in the 4th quarter and playoffs.
Ultimately though, it falls on Woody, so I’m glad he told Joe that his minutes will be cut.
niremetal
October 1st, 2009
8:32 pm
Ando,
Yeah. It’s like reading James Joyce but in all caps…
Big Ray
October 1st, 2009
9:13 pm
Nire,
That’s one way to put it.
O’Brien,
I agree. Woody will have to follow through on that, for the good of Joe, and for the team.
niremetal
October 1st, 2009
9:56 pm
(For comparison):
MALEESH! HE WOULD BARE TO UNTIRED WORLD OF LEIMUNCONONNULSTRIA (AND WHAT A STRIP POKER GLOBBTROTTEL THEY PAIRS WOULD LOOKS!) HOW WHOLEFALLOWS, HIS GUFFER, THE SABBATARIAN (MIGHT FACTION SPLIT HIS BEARD!), HE TOO HAD A GREAT BIG OH IN THE MEGAFUNDUM OF HIS TOMASHUNDERS AND HOW HER LETTYSHAPE, HIS GUMMER, THAT CONGEALED SPONSAR, SHE HAD NEVER CESSED AT WAKING MALTERS AMONG THE JEMASSONS SINCE THE DUFT THAT MEATAXE DELT HER MADE HER MICROCHASM AS GAP AS DOWN LOW. SO THEY FISHED IN THE KETTLE AND FOUGHT FREE AND IF SHE BIT HIS TAILIBOUT ALL HAT TIFFIN FOR THEA.
Big Ray
October 1st, 2009
10:33 pm
LOL.
Heck, after that I might have to go and watch the movie “Snatch” again, just to thoroughly enubriate myself with pseudo jargon and dialect that is both confusing and nearly to the point of grotesque, if language can be described as such.
Earl Cedonia
October 2nd, 2009
12:22 am
WHY DO THE FANS IN THE N.B.A HATE ON JUAN DIXON. DUDE CAN PLAY. HE WOULD BE A GOOD PICK UP FOR THE HAWKS.
Sautee
October 2nd, 2009
5:39 pm
James Joyce has got GAME, but he’s holding out for the Celts.
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
11:02 pm
Sautee, I heard the Celtics are more interested in ee cummings – word is that they feel comfortable in their depth at prose but need some help at poetry.
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
11:05 pm
Clearly, we need a new blog post. Ray/Ando help us out!
Big Ray
October 3rd, 2009
12:24 am
Heh, heh. Looks that way. Okay, comin’ right up…..
Earl Cedonia
October 3rd, 2009
2:38 pm
Enter your comments here
icecold
October 5th, 2009
12:15 pm
does anybody think it would be better for jamal crawford to start at the 2 and have jo johnson move to small forward. jamal is 6′5, he is not short. and he can play deffense in mike woodsons rotation deffense… and joe can play the 3 in woodsons offense.. and he is 6′7.. He can guard alot of the small forwards in the league. until we play the cavs, or orlando who have big line ups.. if so then we can go back to the regular starting five with marvin williams in. what yall think????