Interchangeability… and a Missing Piece

Okay, everybody knows Cleveland just about can’t be beaten at home. Their lone loss there this season pretty much says it all. So a loss here, though not something you want to concede midway through the second quarter, is not something that would come as a completely unexpected occurrence.

But looking totally out of joint? Reverting back to a stagnant offensive approach that has rarely worked and had nothing to do with a 7-game winning streak? This is a surprise….or is it?

The Cleveland Cavaliers are arguably the NBA’s best team now, with arguably the NBA’s best player. They also have a very tough defense that is hands on ALL THE TIME. They’re not just tough, they’re smart. By baiting Josh Smith into 3 fouls (having to keep up with Lebron being the main reason why) , the Cavs have taken away one of the Hawks’ biggest offensive weapons. But this isn’t about the game against the Cavs, or the Cavs in general. This is about what happens when the Hawks are missing key players in their game. And how they will/can react to it. Unless they slip down to the 7th or 8th seed (unlikely) the Hawks will not be facing Lebron and his crew in the first round. No, this is about the teams most likely to meet the Hawks in the playoffs. Believe me, teams like Miami, Philly, and Detroit are watching games like this for clues on how the Hawks can be beaten. After all, they’re going to need it.

 Offensive sets should be taught as part of a system. Of course, starters are starters for a reason, and bench players are on the bench for the same. But any NBA player should be able to set screens in certain areas. And on a team like the Hawks, athleticism is neither rare nor sparse in supply. And certain plays which are the staple of a team’s offense should be run by bench counterparts as well as starters. For example, if you can throw a lob to Josh Smith, then surely you can do so for backup forward Solomon Jones. Of course, to take advantage of this, Jones has to get into the game when Josh Smith is out. In similar thinking, a perimeter shooter on the bench (ex: Gardner)should be able to come off of a screen for an open look at the basket in much the same way that a starter does (ex: Bibby).

Such execution will be very important in the playoffs, especially when starting players are either missing, injured or in foul trouble. And make no mistake, all three can happen. Possibly the most certain is foul trouble as opposing teams and their coaches will be devising ways to keep certain players out of the game. Nobody wants to face a determined Al Horford on either end of the court. Nobody wants to see Joe Johnson on a mission. And EVERYBODY fears and energized Josh Smith. So often, the plan will be to take one or both of our young frontcourt players out of the game, leaving Joe to do the bulk of the work by himself (though Flip will be around to help, it’s not the same). After all, have the Hawks got what it takes to interchange parts and continue to execute the greater part of the game plan?

Which brings me to my second thought. In the playoffs, rotations shorten, but a coach needs his options. Some people point to a series of wins (including a 7 game homestand in which the Hawks remained unbeaten) as a reason to believe that Marvin Williams is entirely disposable. Ask Mike Woodson is he thinks so. It may be easy to point towards Marvin’s stats and say that he has not improved. But to do so and ignore the decreased stats of Josh Smith is to not recognize the real reasons for it. The fact is, the addition of Mike Bibby has produced far more shots (and more points) from the point guard position than any of the pgs collectively in the past 4 years. Add to that the fact that Joe’s number of shots haven’t changed and Flip Murray has become a big part of the offense and you have an answer. The Hawks have spent much of the season scoring from the perimeter before finally involving their dynamic frontcourt in the fun.

Marvin Williams has become a legitimate 3-point threat, a steady defender, and a decent rebounder from the small forward position. When either Smith or Horford have been out of the game, Williams has quite often been moved to the power forward position (due to his weight, height, length, and strength) to compensate. Marvin is harder to push around or get past. So when Mike Woodson looks to his bench for somebody with size and versatility, who does he see? Mo Evans? Solomon Jones? Who among these guys on the bench has or can give you a 25-30 point/6-10 rebound performance, while effectively guarding the opposing team’s small or power forward? Who can give you this on a night Josh has 3 fouls in the second half, Horford is being fronted by a 7-footer, and Joe can’t buy a bucket because he can’t get away from double teams? You won’t need the entire Jeopardy song to figure it out. You know Marvin is needed. Just ask his coaches and teammates.

So back to the first point. How will the Hawks react and adjust to the inevitable schemes that will be thrown at us in the playoffs, particularly when a starter or two is out of the action? What are some good ideas? Do the Hawks have what it takes on their bench to survive and maintain when the going gets tough?

And did y’all see Mario West on Lebron (on both plays) at the end of the 2nd half? You can’t tell me this guy can’t be used on a regular basis. He is a guided missile, waiting for release….

65 comments Add your comment

Sautee

March 21st, 2009
3:30 pm

Good point about Marvin, though I suspect that SamRod would disagree.

Solo and Rio should have seen a LOT more time today. We have some wasted talent on our bench.

Ariose

March 21st, 2009
3:54 pm

Great Post Ray,

I posted this a few blogs ago about Marvin but no one seemed to pay it any attention:

“You have to sacrifice numbers for wins. Look at the Celtics, you don’t see Ray Allen averaging 26ppg game like he was a few years ago…..the same goes for Pierce and Garnett as well. Career lows for all of them as far as numbers are concerned(But they WIN all the time and they all have rings now). They find the open man and play team oriented ball no ego involved.”

“David Lee puts up those numbers on a team 13 games under .500 there is a big difference. Like B-Roy dropping 29 on us the other night but they still lost by 18. Getting your numbers when your team is down by 20 points already doesn’t mean anything. Your opponent isn’t worried about you scoring because they know 1) The game is already over 2) You can’t stop them from coming back and scoring on you 2) If the game was in jeopardy they would shut you down.”

“That’s why players put up big numbers on scrub squads.”

“Marvin plays team ball. Joe Averaged 25ppg during the 06-07 season and we were still only fighting for the 8th seed before he went down with that calf injury. He’s not putting that up now but his assists are up and we’re WINNING more. Why do you think players accused of being offensively selfish like Steve Francis, Antione Walker and Stephon Marbury are always being shipped out of whatever team they are on…….usually because their selfish play results in a loosing effort.”

“Like I said before, it’s a TEAM sport, and Marvin is doing what was asked of him and what is necessary for the success of this team.……Most of the players’ numbers are down from last season…..but we have already won 2 more games than we did last season and we have like 15 more games to go…….If we can avoid five more losses we will hit the 50 mark.”

niremetal

March 21st, 2009
4:10 pm

Ray,

Haha – I was wondering why you were quiet for most of the game! I guess when you get a blog of your own on which to broadcast your thoughts, there’s no need to talk to us unwashed masses anymore ;-) .

I agree with almost all your points (surprise!). We need to come up with a balanced rotation where we bring in the “closest equivalent” off the bench of the player who goes out. We already do that with Marvin-Mo and Horford-Zaza. I agree that we need to work in Josh-Solo. But then you’ve got guys like Flip, Mario, Acie who don’t have any “starter equivalents” but who are potentially are three strongest players to bring off the bench. Flip is a combo guard who can attack the rim fearlessly and score in bunches. Acie is a big, defensively solid, drive-and-dish point guard who can also knock down the open jumper. Mario is an energy-and-hustle player who crashes the boards and gets after people on D like no other. Both Mario and Acie can be used to take the pressure off of our other perimeter players defensively and drain the energy of our opponents – which allows JJ to do his thing on offense. This is all a long way of saying that using bench players to give opponents a “different look” and disrupt their rhythm is just as important as spelling starters with bench players who have similar skill sets. I know that you know that (you’ve said that very thing before) – I just figured it was worth saying out loud.

And the last sentence of your post sounds wrong in so many ways. Haha.

hawkfan

March 21st, 2009
4:11 pm

now that i am thinking about it, it’s kind of funny that we ended their 11-game winning streak at our home, and now they ended our 7-game winning streak at their home, if we do face them in the playoffs, it will be really tough, i did like flip’s energy and hustle at the end, just shows we don’t back down from anybody

Big Ray

March 21st, 2009
4:39 pm

Ariose,

Very good points. Playing as a team and winning HAS to come before individual accomplishments.

Certainly, anybody willing to use Marvin’s stats as an argument against him would have to say that Allen, Garnett, and even Pierce have regressed seriously in the last two years. And odd how Pierce and the Awesome Celts were not so awesome with Garnett out. Pierce would be best served to remember that.

Niremetal,

Wow, that friendly bullet ALMOST hit me as it went to my left….ROFL!!

Good points from you that I didn’t cover. It’s true that we need to be able to give different looks, and versatility is a key. The idea was to have uniform execution of what should be the basics of the offense and defense. Sometimes, we are chaotic in that we don’t do this with consistency. Sometimes it works, and sometimes (usually against good teams) it is our downfall.

However, we definitely enjoy versatility on both ends of the floor, and should make use of it to exploit advantages. And obviously if the bench players exhibited all of the same exact abilities of the starters, we’d be painfully predictable. You’re saying all of this is DEFINITELY worth saying out loud.

Sautee,

As you say, Cest la Vie!

Big Ray

March 21st, 2009
4:50 pm

Interesting article by Sekou on the Smith/Woodson relationship. A few parts that got MY attention:

But it’s not a love-hate thing, Smith said.

“People try to blow it out of proportion,” he said. “But if you’re not on the inside looking at it, you can only guess what kind of relationship you think we have. Players and coaches might disagree a lot and have their differences. At the end of the day, though, we still treat this as a work environment.

“We don’t come in here and turn our noses up at each other. We joke and have fun now like we always have in the past. This isn’t about two people hating each other. It’s not a personal thing like that. We just agree to disagree on some things.”

Okay, here is where people get the idea that Smith is not coachable. Players need to, and need to be ABLE to buy into the program, or there are problems. And yet, this leaves the same inevitable questions: Will Josh Smith get with the program under Woody? Will Smith get with the program for a different/better coach? Is Woody’s program worth the bother?

“They’ve had some tussles,” Hawks captain Joe Johnson said with a smile. “Too many to count. But it’s only a problem when something happens.”

What does this mean, exactly?

Things happen with Woodson and others players, too. He’s had rough relationships with players — Boris Diaw, Salim Stoudamire and Anthony Johnson, to name three — that never resulted in the blow-ups he and Smith have had.

The common denominator in all those situations was a frayed player-coach dynamic that doesn’t exist between Woodson and all his players.

Here again, you have to wonder about Smith’s personality. Is it Smith, or is it just how Smith is with Woody? I find it hard to believe that it’s “just Smith”. But that doesn’t mean I’m right. After all, Diaw left town. Salim got married to the bench because Woody didn’t need him. And lest any “lying in wait” Smith detractors forget, it was Anthony Johnson who literally walked out on Woodson and the team, before presumably coming back to his senses (and remembering he’d like to get paid) and coming back. Smith has never done that…and oddly enough, nobody cared about what AJ felt, now did they? Wasn’t big news…

During last Sunday’s blowout win over Portland, point guard Mike Bibby drew Woodson’s ire. On a 4-on-1 break he pulled up for a jumper and missed. Woodson lost it on the sideline and shouted at Bibby, who by then was on the other end of the floor. Bibby shouted something back and Woodson fumed for another 30 seconds before everything went back to normal.

Had that player been Smith, the fallout likely would have lasted longer and been far more contentious.

Woodson disagreed.

“You can’t compare it,” he said. “Bibby didn’t curse me out. Or tell me that the play should be for someone else, like Josh did in Philadelphia when we suspended him. It’s like what happened in Charlotte. But it ended that night.”

Funny how there is no mention of what Bibby DID say. And it’s not like this was the only instance with Bibby or anybody else. I remember Bibby screeching at Woody towards the end of the Dallas game. I was there….

Hawks veteran reserve Flip Murray reminded Smith that the Hawks are in the midst of their best season in more than a decade. They don’t need distractions.

“You’ve got to sit down and talk that stuff out,” Murray said he told Smith. “Because we got to get that stuff right. It’s too close to the playoffs for that stuff. We all have to get on the same page and get things right. It is what it is. But you can’t let it take you down.”

“These past few games,” Smith said, “if you notice, a lot of that hard stuff hasn’t been said, and you see the results. That’s all I ask for. I know you’re going to get on me when you need to, because I’ve still got a lot to learn and a lot of growing to do. But if you leave me alone a little bit … it’s just easier to do your job that way.”

Uh-huh. Well, Josh knows he has a long way to go. And it would be easy to jump on him for that statment of “just leave me alone a little bit.” But guess what? Maybe, just maybe he’s saying he doesn’t respond that well to Woody’s brand of communication. And I don’t care who you are. $58 million does not change the way you feel when somebody you don’t necessarily have any love for, hits your buttons just the way you don’t like it…

calico

March 21st, 2009
6:46 pm

The hawks have to run the offense through josh & al if we think we are going to beat a quality team like cleveland or any other team on that level we have to stay away from all the jump shots and josh cant guard lebron especially if the refs call a tight game josh does not have the lateral quickness to keep up with lebron- it has to be Mo or Joe you cant let mo-will, lebron and big z have good games more times than not you will not win. Lets go hawks

James Banks

March 21st, 2009
11:12 pm

Winning on the road against good teams requires a level of mental toughness, discipline and experience that this young Hawks team has yet to acquire. Good teams become great when they overcome this next to the last hurdle on the road to winning a championship. This year’s playoff experience will be beneficial to the future development.

I think we can agree that last year’s surprising playoff performance against Boston was a major reason Woodson was retained. Would a surprising first round exit against Miami be a major reason for his dismissal; especially in light of Sekou Smith’s recent article detailing Coach Woodson’s relationship with certain current or former players(Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, et.al)or has he already done enough to insure his return, with a long-term contract to boot?

jj

March 22nd, 2009
2:57 am

I know everybody likes to talk offense,but the Hawks willo only go as far as their defense take them.When they are playing good “d”,they seem to flow better and Josh and Al seem to be more involved.Woody don’t seem to realize what that little dynamo from GT does for the TEAM when he gets playing time early.He stays with Bibby too long sometime when his shot is awol.I miss Marvin because he brings it on defense and on offense and we haven’t really found one player that brings what he brings.Like I have stated in the past,we really miss CHILLS.Woody please expand the rotation and don’t go back to small rotation.This next homestand can get ugly if we don’t MANUP.Woody we need you…….

Sam from da Swats

March 22nd, 2009
10:13 am

Lebron didn’t really go off again, but Cleveland has a balanced offense, and they haven’t loss but one time at home. No Marvin and Lebron scored less points than when he was guarding him last game Sautee. We would have lost by 30 with Marvin.

Sam from da Swats

March 22nd, 2009
10:16 am

jj, what are you talking about? We haven’t found anybody to bring it like Marvin? Mo Evans had 15, one more than Marvin. We don’t need that dude.

Sam from da Swats

March 22nd, 2009
10:22 am

Ariose, Marvin is doing what’s best for the team? You act like he is a superstar getting held back by the system or something. Marvin is doing what he is capable of doing anyway. A serviceable player that should have been the 2nd pick of the second round in the NBA draft.

doc

March 22nd, 2009
11:06 am

dern, with the last comment, i just realized sam is beginning to sound like ando without the chris paul sound bite.

Native Son

March 22nd, 2009
11:34 am

I’ve been quiet for way too long y’all. A belated congrats to the new blogcasters. And the answer is!!!(Drum Roll Please) Marvin on a Lebron type player keeps the game closer. He’s an offensive threat himself, and Josh; while athletic enuff, can’t guard out on the perimeter. The keys to the playoffs believe it or not are Mario & Acie. 7th and 8th off the bench respectively. We need someone like Mario to keep harrassing their 1st & 2cd option scorers(Lebron, Mo Will, Brandon Roy, ya-da-ya-da-ya-da), and it’s time to pace PG with PG, let’s face it, Bibby is running out, and has just so-so D. The moral of the story is: Hell yeah! We miss Marvin. And Woody; while you’re steady on the improvements(and I’m pulling for ya’)put away that coaching 101 book, and use the rotation the way it should be used. “MAN EVERYBODY SEE’S IT BUT YOU” C’mon” Beuller! Beuller!

Ariose

March 22nd, 2009
11:45 am

Sam, All I’m going to say is that that the amount of FG attempts Marvin has when he scores 27-30+ is a lot higher than when he only scores 14…….

But usually whenever Marvin scores between 18-23pppg he’s usually NOT doing it on that many attempts which usually means he’s been the most efficient player on the floor that night……

Ariose

March 22nd, 2009
11:48 am

Also, I want to send a shout out to Mr. & Mrs. Acie Law who just welcomed a baby girl into their family last week.

doc

March 22nd, 2009
11:53 am

no wonder acie has a back ache. sooner or later it is going to spread from the low back to the upper back. heh heh

Ariose

March 22nd, 2009
11:57 am

Sam, now you know darn well, Mo can’t create for himself off the dribble that well. He is a below average finisher at the rim,with or without contact, and to top it all off he doesn’t draw nearly enough fouls to justify him missing those close-range shots like Marvin does. I love mo’s game and what he brings to the team…..but his fifteen points had no effect on LeBron whatsoever. When MARVIN was scoring his buckets against Cleveland, LeBron had NO CHOICE but to foul Marvin. Mo is a complementary player, and Marvin’s actions put pressure on the opposing teams defense, and he’s also a solid defender who can arguably guard up to four positions as opposed to mo’s2 0r three positions.

Ariose

March 22nd, 2009
12:01 pm

Sam, LeBron scored less because THE GAME WAS OVER AFTER THE FIRST QUARTER. He didn’t even play in the 4th quarter…..

LOL@Doc hehehe….

Ariose

March 22nd, 2009
12:29 pm

ONCE AGAIN LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!!!………THE FOOTAGE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWC7RfUbMBg&feature=related

……..something tells me that with this kind of defense, Mo’s 15points really won’t matter…..yup

Kinda reminiscent of Tayshaun Prince running for his life in the Eastern Confrence Finals a few years back………man I miss Marvin…………yup.

……

doc

March 22nd, 2009
1:08 pm

duck baby duck.

Big Ray

March 22nd, 2009
7:25 pm

Ariose,

Keep fighting the good fight. I always have to say: ask Marvin’s coaches and teammates if they think they’re better off without him. Ask Josh Smith, who is one of Marvin’s biggest cheerleaders. But hey, they couldn’t possibly know anything, right?

I wonder how many other NBA teams feel like Marvin’s worth nothing. I guess that means he can’t be traded, since he has no value. Heh…

Congrats to Mr. and Mrs. Law on their young’un.

doc

March 22nd, 2009
11:34 pm

manny t, going to mn game? still need tix for lakers game?

HB Ando

March 23rd, 2009
12:13 am

Big Ray, good points and questions, with solid follow up from the collective group insight. I think the answer to your summary questions can be narrowed down a bit, as we exit this NBA weekend. We lost at Cleveland, which is a statistical, foregone conclusion this season. And today, the Heat took a road game in Detroit. We have 12 games to go, in the regular season, and a 3 and 1/2 game lead over the 5th seeded Heat, who we beat handily at Philips recently. So it seems to me that the questions you asked, about prospective playoff matchups, can be reasonably tied to how we project to match up with the Heat, with an expectation that we’ll have 4 homes games against them. Based on how we’ve played at home, even with Marvin out (or especially with Marvin out, recently?!), combined with our home win against those Heat a week or two ago, we look like pretty strong favorites (something I didn’t believe as recently as the road loss to Charlotte, when it appeared that chemistry-related infighting would unravel these Hawks) with home-court advantage against the Heat (though betting against a healthy D. Wade, at least against an unproven team like the Hawks, gives me serious pause), to advance to Round 2.

If we DO survive the first round, there’s really no amount of discussion and arm-chair analysis that makes an upset of the Cavs, with a grand total of 1 ONE!!!) home losses this season. the least bit plausible (short of Lebron getting hurt and missing the second round). No matter what happens with a second-round exit, there’s no argument that the Hawks coulda, woulda or shoulda done something different to beat the Cavs.

Now that’s a different discussion than what they will need to do in the off-season to change their potential to take it to the next level, and actually compete with any of the top-3 seeds.

As far as Marvin’s market value this summer, the status of his back, combined with both the current economy and the ongoing perception that all they usual “players” are holding onto their cap space or cash flow for 2010, will be the guiding forces. I just don’t think anyone realistically projects Marvin to superstar status in the NBA, so I just don’t see a big bidding war for his services.

And, as you and I have discussed (and a point that I’ve made to several other folks, in person), I don’t think there’s any amount of money that the Hawks should pay for keeping Bibby. If you go look at his post all-star numbers, he been nothing more than pedestrian. And almost every single game the issue of his defensive liability comes up with the nightly match up. He can’t guard his position, and that continues to create match up challenges for an otherwise upper-tier Hawks defense. There are too many folks around the league, who can replace Bibby’s role (Jack, in Indiana, for $2 million/year, has been providing a better version of the ‘3-point shooting/combo guard’). Bibby can only get slower, if that’s fathomable, in the next few years. Using all, or part, of his $15 million annual salary to obtain a true center, or otherwise rebalance this Hawks team, would make the most sense.

12 games left, and the season-long issue of Woody keeping his critical pieces healthy becomes paramount to any potential playoff success. This is the time to cut JJ’s minutes at any logical time……..

jj

March 23rd, 2009
1:55 am

All I’m going to say is that this homestand will tell us a lot about our Hawks.If we keep our advantage over the Heat after these home games I believe it might be an interesting summer,but if we go we go south and Woody stay Woody……well you know……GO HAWKS ,MANUP

doc

March 23rd, 2009
7:26 am

the issue regarding the basg of replacing bibby’s salary with players vs pocketing it ando is the real game this summer. until then i stay focused on the really good season these guys are having.

i imagine that samuel is saying to himself that we are really stupid and woody has played his best card by not showing his best effort against a team that truly thinks it is superior until we meet thm in the second round. he is saving his best card to “steal” one. woody is crafty that way just like he played the josh card to get the team to go on a 7 game run at home.

again manny t, you there tonight?

Steve

March 23rd, 2009
10:01 am

Brilliant post. I hope the coaching staff is reading this.

Melvin

March 23rd, 2009
10:33 am

Doc, if MannyT can use them this weekend than let me know….

Melvin

March 23rd, 2009
10:34 am

That should have read,

Doc, if MannyT can’t use them this weekend than let me know….

RedTailHawk

March 23rd, 2009
11:41 am

It all comes down to Woody. If he can see the value of Mario and Acie. That is it in a nutshell. Most people feel (me included) that Woody has not been wise in the use of his bench. He has been pathologically stubborn in regards to any change to his gameplan which was probably written in stone before the season began. At times he has been forced to play his bench, resulting in brief glimpses of what these Hawks could be. I hope I am wrong bit I just don’t think Woody will ALLOW these Hawks to succeed.

doc

March 23rd, 2009
1:34 pm

got an extra ticket to tonight’s game.

Rod from College Park

March 23rd, 2009
5:08 pm

Big Ray,

Great article. I see all my posting has not gone in vein. But, you know I have to disagree. First this Marvin three point thing. Again Mo evans shoots a higher percentage from 3 than Marvin. Look at the numbers. Oh, but then you guys will say numbers don’t matter. I am not saying that we don’t need Marvin. I am telling you that he is the most replaceable person in our starting lineup. I personally think he should come off of the bench, but that is another argument. He is not a great defender. I don’t know when this myth started, but that is not a true statement. He can not guard the 4 position. Any legitimate 4 in the league’s eyes light up when they see him guarding him. There is a reason he never guarded KG in the playoffs last year. It was either Josh or Horford. He has improved his rebounding but all of his other numbers are the same or worse. Oh, I forgot the numbers don’t mean anything. Another myth is that he can create his own shot. I really have to question your basketball knowledge if you make that statement. He is a stand still jump shooter, who can drive, but he always goes one way, and he can’t finish. His handles are very suspect. When have you ever seen him cross someone up, change directions and finish at the rim? You state he plays great defense, but he has not contained any great player this year. Oh, I forgot, stats don’t matter. Lebron scored the least amount of points against us this year without him, but I forgot the stats don’t matter. If you are going to argue a point, you have to post some sort of evidence to prove your point. When evidence is posted you say it does not matter. His other teamates treat him like what he is, the 5th or 6th best player on the team. My views on Marvin Williams are not based on what I have seen this year only. It is based on the first day he became a Hawk, to now. Based on what I have seen over 3 years, plus his draft position (I know draft position does not matter (LOL)), I do not feel that we should pay him the money he will want this offseason. Simple as that. He can be replaced. He will not be a star is this league, for us or any other NBA team. My opinion, and I’m sticking with it. If you don’t agree, post something substantial that proves your point. Simple as that. Big Ray, I have some other topics that can stir up the pot you as well. Get at me.

MannyT

March 23rd, 2009
5:35 pm

Hi doc. I worked out my Lakers issue. Now I do know someone who might be interested. Then again, that’s almost like saying I know someone who would be interested in winning a lottery.

I will be there tonight due to a sudden change in plans.

BWAF

MannyT

March 23rd, 2009
5:41 pm

Ando, the ASG needs Bibby’s cap space for an older, slower guard named Belkin ;-)

I thought you would get a kick out of this as well. I think I’ll register myself as a financial accountant for the kinesthetically enhanced, yup, that would be FAKE
The link explains that I have to have that designation as I have neither coached AAU nor been related to an NBA player.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-38-350/How-Millionaire-Athletes-Go-Broke.html

BWAF

jhan

March 23rd, 2009
7:17 pm

Rod – I think that many 4’s & 5’s in this league get excited when they play the Hawks. Neither Marvin or Josh can handle a legit 4 by themselves. The Hawks must play good “team” defense to win. That’s the benefit of having Marvin, Josh & Al on our frontline.

When you replace Marvin with Mo – our team defense will suffer against larger teams (Cleveland, Orlando, Boston) & that’s who we can’t beat. When we are playing smaller teams I like having Mo in the starting lineup. Unfortunately we won’t be facing teams like that after the 1st round.

KevinA

March 23rd, 2009
7:25 pm

We always shoot a higher percentage when we go inside. So why do we start all games with jacking jumpers from the outside. Once we get down 10 we get a sence of urgency and start driving which translates to better defense. It boggles my frigging mind why Woody dosent force an inside out game.

MJ3

March 24th, 2009
1:09 am

RodSam,

How about this stat, moron. LeBron scored 12 of his 26 points against the Hawks on March 1 in a run while Marvin was on the bench. With Marvin in the game, he shot 4 of 15 from the floor and scored just 14 points. And some of those were off on-ball switches after a pick. For the 35 minutes he was on the floor, he played the most effective defense LeBron has probably seen all season. Watch the damned game or at LEAST check the play-by-play before you make another RETARDED statement.

And you’re criticizing our starting 3 by saying “he’s never asked to guard the opposing team’s 4?” REALLY?!? And didn’t someone ever tell you that getting to the line IS creating your own shot?!? My GOD, how RETARDED ARE YOU?!?

Go back to your “No comment” post. That was the only smart thing you’ve ever said.

Rod from College Park

March 24th, 2009
10:26 am

MJ3,

That is probably the dumbest stat I have ever heard in my life. What about the game before that when we played Cleveland. What about when we played Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Rudy Gay, Durant…… Why did he not shut those people down. If you actually think Marvin Williams can shut down Lebron James you are The biggest DUMMY there is. When have you ever seen Marvin guard a 4. You have not DUMMY, because he can’t. That would be Josh Smith. I am not gay, so stop referring to my private parts, as you did on the other blog. Take that to Lenox Square on Saturday, if that is what you are in to. DUMMY, creating your own shot is not getting to the line. So if someone gets an offensive foul in the penalty, thats creating you own shot huh. Shooting a TECH is crating you own shot? DUMMY!!!! If you don’t like what I say fly away (GOODIE MOB). I am RETARDED anough to realize that you might be a homo, and I don’t swing that way. If I don’t respond to you, it is because I don’t feel like you are worthy of a response. Read the article Big Ray wrote first before you resond to my post. I was responding to his post DUMMY. SCROLL when you see my name. “The most effective defense Lebron has seen all season” (LOL). As Fred Sanford would say, YOU BIG DUMMY. I am not gay. Leave me alone. I don’t eat fruitcake. I am allegic to nuts, my wrist is not broken, I don’t wear tight jeans, I don’t hang out at Peidmont. Stalking another man. WOW!!!

niremetal

March 24th, 2009
11:09 am

Wow. Homophobes galore. Gotta love the tenor of this blog today.

niremetal

March 24th, 2009
11:31 am

Ok, I promised to scroll, but I just couldn’t resist:

DUMMY, creating your own shot is not getting to the line. So if someone gets an offensive foul in the penalty, thats creating you own shot huh.

Ok. Wow. Just wow. If you knew the basic rules of the game, you’d know that offensive fouls never result in free throws, regardless of whether a team is in the penalty. Offensive fouls don’t count towards the penalty and they don’t lead to free throws except in one situation that has never occurred in an NBA game (when a team is reduced to five players due to disqualifications and one of the remaining five commits a sixth foul).

Wow. Just…wow.

niremetal

March 24th, 2009
11:43 am

(PS – This obviously is exclusive of technical and flagrant fouls, which operate under separate rules)

Rod from College Park

March 24th, 2009
11:53 am

Niremetal,

SCROLLLLLLLLL. How about this. How about you name the place, the amount, and we can see how much you really know. Then you can make a sound judgement. I realize you might be in another city, but I would be more than willing to come to you. Surely a guy who doesn’t know basketball could not win. Step up. The point is just because you are shooting free throws, does not mean you can create your own shot. If you think Marvin can create his own shots then you are in the DUMMY category too. Stick to the legal updates. You seem to be pretty good at that. SCROOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. Don’t read my post please. Thanks!!!!!

MannyT

March 24th, 2009
1:45 pm

Melvin

March 24th, 2009
2:24 pm

Rod, you seem to be on FIRE today…lol

MannyT, will you be there for the Celtics game?

jhan

March 24th, 2009
3:16 pm

I seem to recall Marvin shooting 20 free throws in one game. If he didn’t create those shots for himself then who did? It is my understanding, and I may be mistaken, that whoever gets fouled actually shoots the free throws. Did the Hawks designate Marvin as the official free throw shooter that game? I’m not from Atlanta so maybe Rod can educate me on how this whole game of basketball works.

MannyT

March 24th, 2009
4:08 pm

I will be at the Celtics game ready to continue the playoff tradition of cheering wildly while we beat them in Atlanta.

For all the Marvin detractors, I simply say that you will miss him when he’s gone. He draws a lot of fouls and converts his free throws. He is our best scorer who is taller than Joe, and his defense has definitely picked up this season. He matches up better with the bigger, stronger SF than anyone else on the team.

When Joe has to guard the likes of LeBron or Pierce, it takes a lot of his energy. Mo is too small to do it effectively.

BWAF

Rod from College Park

March 24th, 2009
4:51 pm

jhan,

So you base your oinion on (one) game. Come on man. Lets get real. Base it on the three years that he has been playing for the Hawks. The numbers simply do not match your point of view on Marvin. Josh Smith goes to the line more than Marvin, so what does that mean. Answer that one smarty. Does that mean that Josh is good a creating his own shot. No it does not. The only two players on the HAwks who ca actually create their own shot are Joe and Flip. Marvin is not in that class. Come on Jhan, you can do better than that. One game (LOL). If I remember the game everybody keeps bringing up, he was playing against the Wizards with everybody hurt or the Bobcats when they made the trade.

Ariose

March 24th, 2009
6:09 pm

TECHNICALLY, If your stat sheet shows that you put points on the board for your team, then you’ve created offense for yourself….

1) Josh gets to the line, but he misses a lot of his free throws. Marvin doesn’t miss too often.

2) If you go through all of the previous posts, including mine(on this particular blog), most of your rant was already refuted and proven wrong(Before you posted) so why do you insist in going forward with this argument?

3) Building on what Manny said, Marvin is 6′9 245 (The prototypical size for the Small Forward). LeBron is 6″8 250. Mo is 6′4-6′5 220 and Joe is 6′7 235………there’s a reason Mo’s been posterized by LeBron and Marvin hasn’t yet. LeBron’s also not forget that the TEAM comes first when it comes to defense, but on the ball, defending LeBron, on our team Marvin is our best bet and he has done a nice job so far with the support of his teammates.

4) What about the Denver game where Marvin Worked Melo for 31 points? Regardless of how much melo put up, 31 points is 31 points…….and we lost on a buzzer beater….

5) No one ever said Marvin was a power forward, but if the opposing team is going to play Boris Diaw or Shawn Marion at that spot, then Marvin gets the assignment.

6) The Whole “12-2 with Mo starting” thing is flawed because all of our players aren’t playing whebn he get’s these starts.

jhan

March 24th, 2009
6:43 pm

Rod – Steve Nash has taken 77 FEWER free throws than Marvin. Please convince me that Nash can’t create his own shot.

Birddawg

March 24th, 2009
6:46 pm

This article pretty much points back to one glaring conclusion. The Hawks are winning in spite of Mike Woodson, not because of him. Don’t get me wrong, I like Woody, as a person and a coach…just not for this team. This team is winning on talent, athleticism and determination, not coaching. Give Woodson a veteran team of players with clearly defined roles and he could coach them deep into the playoffs. Unfortunately, the Hawks are not a veteran team of players with clearly defined roles, they are a YOUNG veteran team of players that are mostly still trying to find their niche in the league. Mike Woodson is obviously not the coach to help them along with that. With a clearly defined attack, Joe Johnson could be Kobe Bryant(Light), Mario West should be Bruce Bowen(early years) Acie Law should be CP3(version 2.0), Marvin Williams should be, well, Marvin Williams(for real) and Horford and Smith together should be downright unstoppable.