Time to start talkin’ Hawks
From Big Ray and Ando:
Ray: Welcome, everybody, to the new (hopefully improved) fan forum known as the Hawks Hacks. That’s right, “Hacks”, as in plural. You get TWO for the price of ONE!
What can we say, we’re fans of the game of basketball. Addicts even. More importantly, we’re diehard Hawks fans who are here to talk Hawks basketball till the cows come home….and leave again. All day, all night, we’re going to keep it coming hotter than a Mike Woodson sideline glare and tighter than Flip Murray’s head band. Hey, we’re just a couple of “armchair analysts” (but aren’t we all?), inhabiting a virtual version of a Hawks sports spot. So pardon all the personifications, hyperbole, and other made up stuff. My name is Ray. Homeboy next to me is Ando. If you’re a fan of Sekou Smith’s Beat Blot, you may already know either (or both) of us. Do we think alike all the time? Absolutely not. Are we like-minded? Absolutely? Sound contradictory? Of course! That’s the whole point, but you’ll see that soon enough.
Sure, we’ll be opening the doors to each blog, but we’re fans just like all of you, barkeeps, if you will. So grab a seat and have a drink. Or bring your own cocktail. It’s all good either way. Just to give you an idea of what’s going to be on the menu:
We plan on breaking down key points to each game, prior to the game. We may do a string of games together instead of just one at a time, depending on how the schedule and other factors go. We’ll also break down each game (or string of games) afterwards. Please feel free to add your own opinion/analysis. The way we see it, the more, the merrier. We’ll also talk about who’s stepping up the most during any given group of games, how the Hawks are relating, record-wise, to their division and the Eastern conference, and much more. So join in and bring everything you got. Doesn’t matter which seats you sit in, or how often. Once welcome, always welcome!
Ando: What is this tandem about?
Two heads are better than one? Not hot (not even twins), but still twice the fun? Only time will tell.
I can’t speak to the other “fan blogs”, but Ray and I were charter members of the Hawks’ beat blog. And, respectfully, like our peers/friends/foils, we cut our teeth, four years ago, on a team that was historically bad. Now, the Atlanta Hawks are legitimate playoff contenders. During that time, the volume of bloggers, and the quality of their collective, and diverse, opinions, has grown, exponentially.
So now we intend to provide a complimentary forum for anyone, and everyone, who considers themselves a Hawks’ fan. There’s no doubt that folks will disagree. But the great thing about this platform, about this country, is the inherent right to speak your mind freely. As I’ve suggested before, there are two primary kinds of bloggers: cheerleaders and armchair analysts.
Which are you?
As Ray mentioned, we also intend to talk about the league, at large, as the Hawks don’t exist in a vacuum.
We’re not looking for a consensus. We’re shooting for a perpetual discussion (a daily battle of wits, at the “Liar’s Table”, as one of our old friends would describe it). Heck, getting a consensus from me and Ray will be challenging enough.
Here it is, another avenue for every opinion that is the Atlanta Hawks. As Ray said, “Bring It”, and enjoy what we hope will be a twist on your up-and-coming Atlanta Hawks!
And as I like to say, “Babble On”………..
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118 comments Add your comment
mike
December 16th, 2008
3:17 pm
Lets destroy the OldGuys (celtics) tomorrow! Oh and if you are going to the game (like me) make sure you taunt Boston players and fans alike. Thats all I ask. The more personal insults the better. Make it a living hell for those guys and their bandwagon fans.
Bob
December 16th, 2008
3:19 pm
Glad to see a new Hawks blog up and running! I think we have a pretty good team this year. Al Horford is amazing! (I guess I am biased cause I am a Gator fan). Anyways, Go Hawks!!
JAMES KIRKLAND
December 16th, 2008
3:26 pm
WHAT EVER IT TAKES THE HAWKS NEEDS TO GET AL JEFFERSON FROM THE TIMBERWOLVES TO COMPLETE THIS RUN AT A CHAMPIONSHIP, GIVE UP MARVIN,AC, AND A #1 PICK. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?
Mychelfromatl
December 16th, 2008
3:26 pm
FINALLY!!!! God has saw fit to shine light on the Atlanta Sports Universe(Well except for the Thrashers)…I’m starting to lose my mind!! But one thing I do know is: Wednesday 7:00pm Hawks vs Celtics!!!!:) Time to show the world what we’re about, Philips Arena is going to be CRAAAZZZYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2008
3:33 pm
Congratulations! All I can say is one out of two ain’t bad! LOL!!!!
Much success on running the forum. Sincerely!
Volman
December 16th, 2008
3:36 pm
Ray and Ando, congrats on being appointed this neat position. I am sure you guys will do great with this! Very exciting!
Now can we get some break down on the Hawks/Cheaters game tomorrow? I mean Celtics.
I do not like Paul Pierce one bit!! You can add Kevin Garnett, Perkins (what has the guy done?) and Sam Cassell to the list!
Go Hawks!
Sautee
December 16th, 2008
3:37 pm
Enter your comments here
And so it begins!
Sautee
December 16th, 2008
3:40 pm
Enter your comments here
So do you think Jerome Jurenovich will call you the Hox Hax?
Hey Ando, you DID say “babble on”".
Slim Pickinz
December 16th, 2008
3:44 pm
It’s about time the Hawks get some recognition from the local media in this town.
The Atlanta Spirit may be broke and bouncing from one lawsuit to another – but our HAWKS are going to make Atlanta proud !!! Post Season is going to be a regular thing in the ATL from now on !!
We’re here baby !!!
mountain_jim
December 16th, 2008
3:45 pm
Congrats to you two from a long-time Sekou blog reader but only an occasional poster, as I don’t have the League Pass and get to see so few games on the TV. (Hawks network games blacked out here in NC) But I get to see tomorrow’s game! Go Hawks!
Melvin Jenkins
December 16th, 2008
3:47 pm
I have been a Atlanta Hawks Fan all my life. I am 49 years old & I can’t ever remember a better looking Hawks team. The entire starting line is sound. We even have a gooding looking pench. This team should monday night 12/15/08 that we can not only compete with the best in the nba. But, we can defeat them. This team rivals the Hawks of 1958-59.
sksmith
December 16th, 2008
3:52 pm
Well, well, well. The boys finally showed up for work. It’s about time fellas. Glad to have you join the party. And maybe now instead of busting my dome over something I can join in here and bust yours. Ha. This ought to be a trip for us all.
doc
December 16th, 2008
3:54 pm
Enter your comments here
well, i can say we will certainly have a little more room on the sekou blog now that we have gotten rid of you two hacks so aptly named. thank you ajc!
heh heh, luv ya, mean it and good luck and form going forward.
Marvin Hamlisch
December 16th, 2008
4:01 pm
Not that I would be a better blogger (of course I would), but perhaps you might learn, Ray, that the punctuation goes inside the second quote mark. For example: “Oh boy, these Hawks Hacks are a couple of geniuses,” Marvin said.
Oh, by the way, what qualifies you to “break down,” anything but the salad bar?
Yon
December 16th, 2008
4:04 pm
Thank god they finally allowed people who know about the Hawks to run this. The last guy was a disgrace. Looking forward to finally having some real discussion about our team!
Rod Stone
December 16th, 2008
4:11 pm
Why does Speedy travel on road trips?
jhan
December 16th, 2008
4:13 pm
Congrats Ray & Ando. This should be more than interesting to say the least! Let’s roll!
Ryder
December 16th, 2008
4:13 pm
Glad to see that two of the faithful members of Sekou’s “family” have branched off on their own. Ando, are we going to be subject to a lot of debates regarding Atlanta’s financial status from time to time? Ray, hope you will be the calming yin to Ando’s raging yang LOL. Looking forward to the great blogs between you two. Congratulations!
tommyt
December 16th, 2008
4:14 pm
I’m so glad you guys restarted a fan blog…I’ll enjoy reading you and your reader’s comments during this excellent season. With the international market turmoil…it’ll be interesting to see whether Childress stays in Greece…I know there is an out for Childress…is there an out for the Greek team?
Sautee
December 16th, 2008
4:19 pm
Enter your comments here
OK, gang, let’s get a thread going.
How can the Hawks best maximize the talents of their two young big men, both good passers, but as yet not unstoppable in the post? Ideas?
I’ve posted in the past that we should use some high-low sets with them, with Bibby out high and JJ and Marvin on the wings. Any takers?
Josh
December 16th, 2008
4:41 pm
I hear all this talk about Boston or Houston signing Dikembe Mutumbo. How about the Hawks make him an offer to return. He’d be a good fit playing some minutes at center so Al could move to PF. The man can still play.
Daddyrich
December 16th, 2008
4:42 pm
Congrats Ray and Ando. I dont post much but do read Sekou’s blog quite often. You both definitely have the passion and guts to run a fan site. Good luck!
Greg
December 16th, 2008
4:52 pm
The main thing with the Hawks is we have to many guys playing out of position. JSmoove need to be moved to the 3 and Al to the 4. We need to offer Bibby a 2 year extention and trade Marvin or ZAZA for someone like Chris Kaman or Joel Prizybilla, this will give us rebounding and shot blocking that we miss against the elite team. I like our current team, but it won’t win a championship which is the goal of the Hawks.
MannyT
December 16th, 2008
5:01 pm
First, congrats to you new Hacks.
Now I wonder what will happen with 3rd shift on Sekou’s blog now that the late shift has its own gig. I wish you all the success of a Law & Order spinoff. They just keep going and going like that Energizer Bunny…or an Ando post
You want a leaguewide topic…How about you’re fired and you got the best end of that deal. With all the recent NBA firings, are any of those teams better off in the short or long run for getting rid of the coach less than 1/3 of the way into the season? No camp with the new coach in charge. No opportunity to select from a broader group of coaching candidates.
*Just checking to see if new blog has old formatting rules* or **do I need to learn new tricks?**
How is it that [we don't even make the list of games to be voted on](http://www.nba.com/FanNight/) for Fan Night?
BWAF
Alex
December 16th, 2008
5:06 pm
Congratulations on the position fellas! Hopefully yall will be better than the other guy who used to do this. I think the Hawks will win tomorrow but the key will be Bibby vs Rondo. Bibby is gonna have to play like his younger years in vancouver and sactown for us to win it tomorrow!!!
ant banks
December 16th, 2008
5:08 pm
keys to victory tomorrow:
1. Hawks need to shoot atleast 48% from the field
2. Shoot 80% free throw
3. Get 48+ rebounds
4. Shoot 40% from 3pt.
5. Score 100+pts
6. Fewer than 14 turnovers
7. 30pts from the bench
8. 18+ assists
Any 3 combinations will get the Hawks a victory. All of this came from analysis of last season’s stats.
one66soul
December 16th, 2008
5:09 pm
HEY RYAN CAMERON & HAWKS ORGANIZATION PLEASE HaVE A SOUNDBITE OF A CRYING BABY WEDNESDAY WHEN BIG BABY ENTERS THE GAME…
blackprix
December 16th, 2008
5:14 pm
GO CELTICS!!!!
Another Championship awaits the Cs in 2009!
Hawks are wannabees – not this year!
ant banks
December 16th, 2008
5:31 pm
watch how many people come to the game with celtics gear on. 3 yrs ago, not even the diehards wore celtics green, now everyone and their grannies sport the celtic green. if you are from atlanta, work in atlanta, pay state taxes in ga., YOU need to be cheering for the home team which is the ATLANTA HAWKS!! don’t ride jocks, it is bad for your health
ant banks
December 16th, 2008
5:35 pm
Coach Woodson, Doc uses his bench to perfection. It may be to late to go to our bench. You should have been using them during the indy, philly, charlotte games so that you can go to them in the big game. there is no way that you can put solo in against garnett or powe and he ain’t seen no time in 3 games. law would be a better defender on rondo than bibby, but you failed to get him ready.
Please put Horford at the 5. He gets too many fouls at the 4 gaurding garnett.
Wink from Lithonia
December 16th, 2008
5:36 pm
Congrats guys, good to see someone seize the ball and run with it. Now bring it like always… do you! Hope Woody can get the team to run the Celtics out of town. It all depends on how the Bibby / Rondo match up shakes out; should be an exciting game. Again congrats Ray & Ando!
hometown hawk
December 16th, 2008
5:37 pm
Ha Ha, this is funny. Maybe you guys will start to get locker room passes etc with your newfound media position. I have been a longtime follower of the blog and have posted under various names throughout the years of both misery and celebration. I look forward to the breakdowns and will be sure to input my 2 cents. Good luck with it
ant banks
December 16th, 2008
5:37 pm
“BLACK PRIX” you are one of those jock riders that i was talkin’. were you supportin’ the celts 3 yrs ago? no! but now sense they are hot you are on them. i am goin’ to remember your handle, 3 yrs from now when they dismantle the team due to age/money, i want to see you supportin’ them then. i been wit’ the hawks durin’ the 13win season thats why i can scream so loud now. not a bandwagon jumper.
Kappy
December 16th, 2008
5:56 pm
Oh no. Not you two.
As a blogger on the original Sekou blogs of four years ago, I can honestly say that you Hawk fans are in good hands with Ray and Ando. There won’t be a pair that brings more honest, intense, and heartfelt love for the Hawks.
Good luck guys, I’ll be reading.
Don!
December 16th, 2008
6:03 pm
Grats on the blog guys!
I just wanted to make sure I got a post in here, so in years to come I won’t be labeled a bandwagon jumper. I can say that I’m OG and posted on the very first Big Ray and Ando blog.
I also think we need to get T-shirts for us persevering Hawks fans, to segregate us from the folks who just started paying attention post-Horford. I’m thinking something like, “I survived Lon Kruger” or “I remember 13-69″ or “I can’t believe we traded for J.R. Rider.”
And since this is a all-NBA blog, did anyone else notice that the nerdy disturbed guy in the new ESPN bus commercial is the same guy who did “the” Glibert Arenas video. If not, he’s a dead ringer for him. (NSFW link: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1893214 )
Later,
Don!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2008
6:04 pm
Haha this is dope as hell! I look forward to this blog having a bright future, full of commas.
Sha
December 16th, 2008
6:07 pm
Enter your comments here
Congrats Big Ray and Ando…do a good job here and you’ll have your own TV show (like Mike & Mike in the morning) “Ray and Ando Comin At You”….from the Big A
chuckw/deadjournalist
December 16th, 2008
6:10 pm
Congrats Ray and Ando – Good to see you guys running the blog.
MannyT
December 16th, 2008
6:15 pm
Hey DON
How did you put that link in the post? I know a guy that will need that info for 90% of his posts. I only need it for half of mine.
Because a site like this one is entirely too valuable for a serious sports fan that records games.
http://www.shouldiwatch.com/
BWAF
Don!
December 16th, 2008
6:24 pm
It looks like you got it MannyT — just post the address, and it will link up automatically. I think this is standard vBulletin command software. So you and do stuff like [i]italics[/i] and [b]bold[/b] type much easier.
Hopefully this new board’s software will carry over to Sekou and DOB’s blogs — because, to be honest, if it wasn’t for those two guys, I’d have quit coming to ajc.com a long time ago!
Later,
Don!
Don!
December 16th, 2008
6:25 pm
Well, the faces work.
But not the word script …
Later,
Don!
Banshee 29
December 16th, 2008
6:26 pm
I have been a Hawks fan for 20+ years. This team (and more importantly, coach) is NOT a serious playoff contender. We were nearly 20 games under .500 last year, never played anything close to a competitive game away from Phillips in the playoffs, and all of the suddden we are serious contenders? Lets start with an above .500 season and then let us get excited. Can Woodson!
rms
December 16th, 2008
6:52 pm
dang guys, nice job of moving from the sekou blog to having your own. personally i have been a hawks fan since i grew up here, but i moved around a lot still managing to watch them on t.v. Now I am grown now and can somewhat affort to actually go to the arena and watch them play. Would be nice to see them make a move and get some size down low in the paint. what do u think?
Matt = niremetal
December 16th, 2008
7:23 pm
Congrats, Ando and Ray. Y’all deserve the spotlight
.
Star of the Zanarkand Abes!
December 16th, 2008
7:34 pm
Blog software upgrade? ABOUT TIME, AJC!!!
This MAY even make up for the blatant lack of a Hawks Vent…ALMOST!
LET’S GO HAWKS!!! SHOCK THE WORLD!!!
cp
December 16th, 2008
8:09 pm
Enter your comments here
for some reason my first time responding did not go through. once again congrats guys.
Big Ray
December 16th, 2008
8:26 pm
Guys & Gals,
We really appreciate the support and encouragement in this endeavor. Ando and I feel very honored to get the opportunity to do this. Truthfully, any of us could do this. So many guys from Sekou’s Beat Blog have such incredible talent, and we are just two of those many, many contributors from that nationally famous blog. As always, pile in and pile on as you please. The more, the better!
Marvin Hamlisch,
Good correction on the grammatical error. I’d use the excuse of what I was drinking when I posted, but that’s poor sport. Now you really don’t want to go there with me on salad bars. I’ll break ‘em all down! As for what qualifies me to break anything sports related down….nothing. I’m a fan, and this is a fan’s forum. So if you can blog better, then bring it, because you’ll only make THIS blog the better for it! Looking forward to your contributions. Seriously.
Ben Halpern
December 16th, 2008
8:35 pm
If you are going to the HAWKS/Celtics game tomorrow, you better wear your shock the world tshirt that was giving out during the playoffs. The players want us to go NUTS so lets GO NUTS
HB Ando
December 16th, 2008
8:37 pm
And so it begins:
Sam, on the REAL blog just posted that he doesn’t believe tomorrow nights’ Celtics game is a “statement”, in his opinion (IMO, he says, forgetting the H? Guess not, huh, Sam).
I have to concur, and intended to address that very point tonight.
It’s not a “statement” game. But it is a measuring stick, in the truest since of the term. We should be able to measure quite a bit about the Hawks, after tomorrow night. We know what they did, in taking the C’s to 7 games last spring. We know what they did, 4 weeks ago, in about as quality of a game a team can have while still coming out with an L.
So now we’re playing the red-hot, World Champion Celtics, at home. And they know what we did last spring and four weeks ago (their quotes, in Sekou’s article, highlighted their respect for the Hawks, and the acknowledgment that they must bring their best effort if they want to win here in Atlanta). They know what we did against the Cavs on Saturday.
So the truth is that both teams go into this game with full respect for their opponent, and understanding the implications of a win. Or a loss. There can be know excuses from either team, should they lose. The outcome of this game will literally measure the level of the Hawks’ growth, from last spring to now.
Match ups are, as always, critical to the expectations for the game. I mentioned last night that the Bibby-Rondo match up is huge (something that many folks have noted, so it’s obviously not a novel comment). Both are playing great. Maybe Rondo caught Bibby by surprise last spring. Maybe Bibby wasn’t 100% healthy. Or maybe Rondo’s length and athleticism are just a challenging match for Bibby. But, again, we should be able to measure where things stand, NOW, based on how it goes down between those two.
More important is how Woody plans on handling minutes and rotations on his front line. The Hawks (Woody) have done a pretty good job of imposing their will on other teams, as it relates to matching up. But the C’s front line is one of the ones in the league that really challenges Horford-as-center. Me, I don’t think it’s the best, defensively, to have Horford guard Perkins, Smith cover KG, and Marvin take Pierce (if he’s limited, it will really minimize this point). Zaza on Perkins, Horford on Garnett, and Smith hounding Pierce, should be much stronger. Of course, that then limits Marvin’s minutes, and it makes us a much weaker shooting team, on offense. So the Hawks are going to have to pick their poison, on one end of the court.
This all goes back to the long-standing discussion regarding whether the Hawks can ever reach their potential, in the coming years, with Horford at center.
Sautee addresses utilizing the high-low with one of our young bigs, and notes that a strong post game, on offense, is still lacking with these guys. But the challenge, without obtaining a legit big who can face the basket and stretch opposing defenses, while allowing Horford to slide over to the four, is that Horford at the elbow still leaves us without a legit post scorer, other than JJ (versus opposing two’s). And we really don’t want JJ taking a beating down there, and minimizing both his outside shooting and play-making ability from the perimeter.
Guess we’ll see.
Should be crazy loud at Philips, and that’s one of the greatest things about an improved Hawks team!
Thanks to all our brothers from Sekou’s blog, as we feel like we represent all of us.
P.S. Astro, thanks for the props. But I know Ray is disappointed that you only approved of my half of the partnership……..
jhan
December 16th, 2008
8:58 pm
Good one Ando!!
Big Ray
December 16th, 2008
8:58 pm
Just read Sekou’s article on Hawks and Celtics players sounding off. It looks to me like we are getting much more respect out of these guys than we used to. Conspicuously missing however, is a comment from Kevin Garnett….
Big Ray
December 16th, 2008
9:14 pm
Don,
We’re trying to get something down about that. Apparently, the program that this runs on is a bit of a guinea pig. We’re also working on some other odds and ends. As it stands right now, this blog is not in the usual Hawks Hack spot. Hopefully, I will find out soon enough when and if it will be.
Don!
December 16th, 2008
9:34 pm
Big Ray, I would have never of seen this if not for the front page link. So someone on the web team loves you guys. Oh, and you have to give me the ! in Don! because there’s a lot of Don’s running around on the boards, and a couple of them are … well … not nice people.
Anyway, as a dislocated Atlanta fan living in Jersey near Philadelphia — if you ever want the talk radio scoop on this end about the Hawks, or just wonder what it’s like to live next to a town that boos Santa — just let me know. Right now it’s pretty funny listening about all the 76ers issues, and having the whole basketball-crazed masses ready to take pitchforks to the streets because their team is waaaaaaaaaaay under performing.
Trust me, there are days when the Hawks don’t look like they’re playing to their potential — but its been two solid months of under achieving up here. Let me tell you, the Sixers should thank their lucky stars that the Phillies won the world series, and that the Eagles consistently provide lots of cover drama — or else it would look like one of those really bad street demonstrations on game nights outside the arena here.
Anyway, I think the Hawks’ game tomorrow night will turn a long way on how good Pierce’s knee is. As good as the Celtics are, they can’t replace his scoring without losing part of their team rhythm. Pierce takes the pressure off of KG and Rondo to score, and when Ray has to ignite their offense, he seems to wear down pretty quickly.
Well, tomorrow will tell.
GO HAWKS!
Later,
Don!
bigjohnhawksfan
December 16th, 2008
9:44 pm
Someone please shut KG up for good! I’m tired of him pounding his chest like a baffoon!
Rise Up, Atlanta!
Big Ray
December 16th, 2008
10:16 pm
Don!,
I will try to remember to have your name typed right, but I swear it makes me feel like I’m yelling at you, LOL!
The Sixers are definitely underperforming, and the bad thing is that people who don’t know it, will soon find out that Maurice Cheeks wasn’t the real problem. Did Cheeks suddenly tell Iguodala to start underperforming? No. Did Cheeks fail to add some true shooters to the team? No. And there it is.
Having said THAT, can another coach come in there and be succesful with the squad? Possibly, but one wonders just HOW effective that coach would be. More often than not, the kinds of coaches that can take a squad and make it perform better than it ever has, are the same kinds that require creative control. Need an example? Try D’Antoni. He comes in an changes the climate in New York immediately. But he also has creative control (or at least some help from Walsh, the GM). Suddenly, Chris Duhon is the starting pg. David Lee is no longer coming off the bench. Out goes Crawford and Randolph. Marbury is a goner (sooner or later). And the Knicks are no longer such an eye-sore to watch.
I think Philly has potential still, but it’s hard to say how you’d make it work. They were built to run, and then….enter Brand. Running? Uh, not Brand. Which is why I suspect he turned down an even bigger payday in Golden State (where the reported offer was in excess of $90 million). And we all know what kind of ball they play in Golden State. I don’t know how you make it work in Philly, but somebody has their work cut out for them. And that person should be Ed Stefanski….
HB Ando
December 16th, 2008
11:44 pm
Answers (OK, opinions) to questions posted here:
-JK, I don’t think there’s much we could offer Minny to dislodge Al Jefferson (and it would take some package including Al Horford if it was even possible). Now, as many, including doc, have noted, McHale is a perennial favorite for worst GM of the year. But he’s no longer the GM, and I don’t see Jefferson anywhere but Minnesota.
-Tommy T-I don’t think Chills’ team has an out. And given the economy, stateside, and worldwide, I’m not sure he’s thinking about returning to the NBA right now. His owners are billionaire brothers, so I don’t see him returning before he gets the full value of his 3-year, tax-free deal.
-Josh- I agree that Mutombo could be of value here. But I don’t see him going anywhere but back to Houston or up to Boston, for a shot at a ring.
-Greg- Been saying the same thing for six months. The long-term future of this team’s front line is built around Josh and Al. At this stage, the optimal scenario would see the Hawks adding a big man who could defend the five, and provide us with a consistent, legitimate face-up game, from around 20 feet. By stretching opposing defenses, Horford could develop his post game, and Josh would see far less crowded lanes to attack. Additionally, Horford could avoid the wear-and-tear of pounding on opposing centers, dominate opposing fours, and Josh could be the ultimate nightmare defending opposing 3’s.
-Banshee- We’re 15-9, so legitimate playoff contenders we are. I’ve been accused of being hyper-critical, over the years, but you have to call it like you see it. Beyond the record, a thorough observation of the other Eastern Conference teams finds no one else standing out, other than Boston, Cleveland (who we just beat), Orlando (who we’ve already beaten), and the uncertain memory of Detroit (who I can’t discount, but who looks awful vulnerable). After that, it’s a pretty wide open field, with lots of potential playoff contenders, and no real track record for any of their current line ups. Major injuries could end up playing a critical role in how the East shapes up (one only has to look at Washington, without Arenas and Haywood, for a team who’s expectations have been obliterated by health).
Sautee
December 17th, 2008
10:02 am
Well, I’m glad I bookmarked the site last night. Looks like the only way in now.
We need to pressure Pierce on the offensive end. Make him play defense (not that he doesn’t), but make sure he has to work so hard on that end that it affects his offense.
Whomever he is guarding should take it straight to his chest.
The other big need for tonight is offensive rebounds. When you play against a great defense, you need all the extra possessions you can garner to offset the lower percentage they will force us to shoot.
And if we’re gonna live by the three……… well I hope we hit a good percentage.
HOMEGROWN aka E.J.
December 17th, 2008
11:27 am
Enter your comments here
Well, Congrat on the new site. I got the link from Sautee on the other blog. You guys have taken this thing to another level and that should be commended. Hawks talk should be this way.
Bibby has to take care of business tonight. He can’t let Rondo break down the defence and dish/score. Bibby has to keep him out of the line and that will prevent the fouls to the front court. In the future how do i get back to the blog? I need my way in. Yes sir! Congrats again.
mountain_jim
December 17th, 2008
11:49 am
What’s it going to take for AJC to add a link to this area with the other ‘fan blogs?’ Without Sautee’s kind link in Sekou’s blog, I could not find my way back here. Now bookmarked, but jeez AJC, get the link out there on the main Sports page!
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
12:19 pm
Mountain Jim,
It’s my understanding that they are working on it. I don’t know when it will be up and running normal, and I’m sorry that I don’t have a better answer at the moment. Patience, my young Jedi. Or so I keep telling myself…lol!
HomeGrown aka E.J.,
You’re right that Rondo cannot be allowed to play his game against us, or it will be curtains, and very quickly. However, I would not lay that task solely at the feet of Bibby. I do not believe Bibby to have the speed (and certainly not the length) to contain Rondo, injury or no injury (as was the excuse during the playoffs last season). However, Bibby has been playing good, solid defense to the best of his somewhat limited ability.
Our team defense will be the bigger factor. Bibby will have to make some good individual plays on defense (as will others…and this is something that guys like Horford and Smith excel at), but it will be very important that guys rotate quickly and accurately. In other words, proper execution of team defense will be PARAMOUNT.
But that also leaves room for another idea that some will no doubt get sick of me bringing up: the use of Acie Law. While we also have Flip Murray as an option if Bibby is getting torched, and the others are unable to help him, Law is a guy you want to use. Why? Because good defense isn’t just about staying in front of your man. It’s also about making HIM work hard on defense when you’re on offense. Law and Flip will both drive to the hole, which means that defenders will have to work harder physically to stop them. It also means that they will be much more likely to draw fouls. We all know that drawing fouls causes problems on the defensive end. That’s one of the disadvantages with Bibby, although lately he has seemed to be a bit more aggressive in that area (whereas previously he would only drive or try to penetrate maybe once or twice in an entire game). We’re still going to need his shooting, but the Celts know this and will probably defend it like crazy. Enter Marvin Williams…
At the same time, our guys have to be careful about driving to the basket, as the Celts are not stupid by any stretch. They WILL try to draw charges. Maybe not early and often, but certainly after someone has managed to penetrate the defense enough times for it to be a concern.
HOMEGROWN aka E.J.
December 17th, 2008
12:34 pm
I agree with that thought. You have to make your man work on both ends of the court. If Rondo doesn’t have to keep up with Bibby on the drive, then that gives him that much more time to catch a breath or two. AC WILL drive the lane, and that will make him work on both ends.
I also agree about the team defence. Al and JSMOOTH do a great job of rotating to the open man. This makes us very hard to score against because they are both long and can block shots. No easy looks means the shot clock is running down and that creates a desperation, shot clock beating basket. If they make those, then fine, but it is still good defence.
How will AC deal with the length of Rondo?
Sautee
December 17th, 2008
12:36 pm
So Ray, what’s the over/under for Flip committing charging fouls tonight?
I’ll say 3.
Sautee
December 17th, 2008
2:10 pm
HOMEGROWN aka E.J.:
About this: How will AC deal with the length of Rondo?
If the recent past is any indication, he’ll watch Rondo’s length from the bench.
HOMEGROWN aka E.J.
December 17th, 2008
3:01 pm
As Doc would say: “Heh Heh Heh”
Sautee
December 17th, 2008
3:16 pm
Actually E.J., doc (all lower case) would say heh heh (no punctuation) but I see you’re starting to learn the ways of the Liar’s Table.
blast
December 17th, 2008
3:22 pm
Congrats, HB and Ray. Way to go, fellas.
Go Hawks!
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
4:08 pm
Sautee,
Good point on the offensive rebounds. An offensive rebound is demoralizing for a defense, especially if you’ve been making that defense work hard. In some ways, it’s like making the extra pass: good things usually happen, and you can catch guys off guard. In fact, it’s not too uncommon for one or more of the five guys on the floor to slack off a bit, due to fatigue or otherwise, when the opposing team gets a fresh 24. Sounds like a good time to throw an alley-oop to Smoove, Solo, or big Al…or Mo Evans…or Marvin.
Another thing involving the offensive rebound is how to make use of it. Going back up with it is not a bad idea, particularly if you have good position down on the block. But do you go back up to score, draw the foul, or both? If you’re not a notoriously strong finisher, trying to draw the foul may be the best route. That’s not to say that you shouldn’t try to make the shot, but if you draw the foul, then you at least have a chance at two uncontested points.
On the other hand, you could pass the ball back out. I’m in favor of this as well, when the situation calls for it. But I also think there are better ways to do it than to just pass it back out, let the defense settle in, and then try to figure out how to get a shot. And too often, that’s exactly what we do. I think a better idea is to pass the ball back out (if it’s feasible in the situation…no need to force turnovers) to one of the guards, then immediately have one of the bigs (preferrably Horford) come back out to the high post and receive the ball. Then run a variety of plays through the high post. That is so much better than constantly dribbling the clock back down, only to get a contested long ball shot from one of the guards…or an uncontested, but misguided long ball shot from Smoove…
HOMEGROWN aka E.J.
December 17th, 2008
4:26 pm
Sautee, the more time I spend on this thing, the better I will get. Pratice makes Perfect! Just one question: What is the Liar’s Table? I have learned about BWAF, now the Liar’s Table, What’s next? I am!
Melvin
December 17th, 2008
4:29 pm
Congrats Ray and Ando. How fitting that you guys are the new Hacks, after being the backbone of Sekou Blog for so many years. Also, kind of ironic that Ando is one of the new Hacks after he blasted the old Hack into never, never land with one of his classical departure comments. Good riddens to the old Hack and glad to have you guys to replace him. I will be following along. Good Luck…
HB Ando
December 17th, 2008
4:36 pm
Interesting side-by-side of this years’ Celtics and and Lakers, and the 95-96 Bulls, who were also 23-2 at this point in their record-breaking season. The Bulls lost game 26, on the road, to a talented, young Pacers team, led by a great shooting guard in Reggie Miller (see any similarities).
This game couldn’t be more hyped, with prime time coverage on ESPN (how long since the Hawks played to this kind of TV access).
I truly expect that the Celtics players know how important this game is to the Hawks and their fans, and that they see a value in not letting us get the kind of confidence and momentum a win would generate. They know this is still a young team, learning how to win, and believe that a loss tonight could break our will and have us question whether we are legitimately ready to play with the big boys.
The great value in that thought is that the Celtics will have no excuses if the Hawks win, and our confidence will rise to unprecedented levels, giving the organization a real opportunity for major momentum going into the new year.
There truly is a lot riding on this game, psychologically.
They have to get it done on the boards. They have to keep Rondo from having his way, as he is STILL their fourth wheel. And, watching the way guys like Powe and Allen have been playing, we need to minimize the impact of their second unit, which is really athletic and aggressive, on both ends of the court. Mo Evans and Marvin will be critical in those secondary match ups.
As I mentioned before, I’m anxious to see if Woody goes to Zaza, early and often, to match up with Perkins and rotate Horford and Smith over to KG and Pierce. Gotta go to the boards hard tonight.
GoSPYDER
December 17th, 2008
5:37 pm
Enter your comments here
I’ll be watching BIBBY’s play in the offensive zone, and whether the CELTICS successfully iso on him on defense as they did this spring in the play-offs. Its time to rise up MR.B and show HAWKS fans what you’ve got.
honest_abe
December 17th, 2008
6:21 pm
Enter your comments hereyo yo!! i leave for a little bit and come back to you two running a blog. how sweet is that. kudos to both of you. i do wonder if ando still has free reign to blast people like he always does. HAH!
The Hawksta
December 17th, 2008
6:25 pm
Well…well…well, my two sons! You’ve finally made the bigtime! lol! That’s what’s up. Looking forward to hackin it up witcha. Great way to get it started on the biggest home game of the season!
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
7:32 pm
The Hawksta,
Hack away, my man!
After a solid, but slightly jittery start, our guys have calmed down and gotten right to business. GREAT ball movement so far, and ya’ll know you have to give Josh Smith mad props for fakin’ the three (okay, he probably WAS thinking about shooting it) and then passing to Marvin for a pretty deuce!
Then there was the marvelous Marvin fast break pass to Horford!
Big Al already looks like he’s going to try and get more rebounds than anybody else. The lid on the basket is going to come off any second now.
Notice that the Celts aren’t letting Joe even get a look at the basket….AT ALL. And we are still right on them….
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
7:38 pm
What a wild first quarter! Time to get a lead, though.
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
7:46 pm
Okay, Joe needs to just take what the defense is giving him and stop trying to force a way to find his shot. Clearly Boston wants to make us beat them with other players. We can do that. Pass the ball Joe, your opportunity will come….
bigjohnhawksfan
December 17th, 2008
7:48 pm
Stop giving up the paint when the shot clock gets low: can’t bail them out like that.
LET’S GO HAWKS!!!
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
8:36 pm
Josh Smith doesn’t need to be trying to “shake and bake” anybody from 20-something feet out. All he’s going to do is lose the ball….which he did. Better to set up closer to the basket, make his move, and continue to draw fouls.
But he’s not the only one trying to force things. Joe doesn’t have any turnovers, but he’s forcing some shots. We can beat Boston without Joe scoring 30. We just have to keep running, keep playing good defense, and keep sharing the ball.
Josh needs to start fighting harder for rebounds. Big Al is already giving a herculean effort in this area, but a little more effort from Josh will result in us dominating the boards. Good thing our guards are helping in this area as well.
Mike Bibby is playing his butt off…His effort is dwarfing JJ’s. Wow.
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
8:47 pm
Okay, how many bogus calls can you expect to have to endure ON YOUR OWN HOME COURT??
First the OBVIOUS double dribble by KG when Josh had him all bottled up, and then the sham Pierce grimaced and groaned his way into against Marvin. That is just straight up BS. Marvin is playing great, and on that play, all he did was put a body on Pierce. All I can tell Pierce is tie a kerosene rag on both of your ankles….that way no ants crawl up your legs and try to eat your candy arse!
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
9:31 pm
Yes, Josh! Now THAT is the way you do things! Dunk on their heads, no more George Gervin imitations with finger rolls. Just dunk it!!!
Here we are late in the 4th quarter, and all I can hope is that our guys have enough left in the tank to finish it off. The bench hasn’t been playing much.
Sautee
December 17th, 2008
9:50 pm
Gotta Say it. When your legs are tired it’s harder to shoot free throws.
See y’all tomorrow
Big Ray
December 17th, 2008
9:58 pm
Celtics take another heartbreaker from us, and MAN does this hurt. This time we gave it to them.
Almost no bench play on our part, while Rivers uses his bench to wear us down in the late third and early fourth quarters. An early assessment of minutes played by both teams’ benches would be misleading. Boston had 4 bench players in double figures in minutes. We had 3. Not a big difference, right?
Wrong. It’s all about WHEN these guys played. Our bench players played mostly in the first half, very sparingly (or not at all) in the second half. Meanwhile, Doc Rivers used his bench with one starter (Ray Allen) for a good stretch, then brought in the rest of the starting lineup with about 5 or 6 minutes left to play….fresh and ready to go.
Hmmmmmm….
Alex
December 17th, 2008
10:27 pm
I was ready for someone to punch KG in the head. I mean this guy is the biggest douchebag in the history of the NBA. We saaw his true colors last year when somebody stands up to him like ZaZa did. I mean this guy got punked at by Matt Bonner at one time!!! I think the Hawks should trade for Brian Scalabrine hahaha!!!!!!
GreenMachine
December 17th, 2008
10:39 pm
Hawks have tons of energy and athleticism – a great young team. But maybe their whiney fans (that couldn’t even fill their home court for “the biggest game of the year”) need to cop to the fact that the Celtics are OUTSTANDING. 24-2! 16 straight wins! And two of those 24 came at the expense of the Hawks. Stop acting like a regular season game against the C’s is the be-all/end-all. Just get into the playoffs. You’d kill to have Pierce, Garnett, Allen and Rondo wearing those stupid looking Hawks jerseys. G’night, bitches. Better luck next time.
cp
December 17th, 2008
10:44 pm
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Like I said on SS’s blog, the missed free throws hurt. Not only from Joe but Marvin and Josh..The lack of an offensive scheme is also a concern… It looks like we just make up play as we go…. Evans is not a finisher. For all of his athletic ability he struggles finishing at the rim for some reason. The past few weeks he has blowed a lot of easy lay ups and dunks. This is where we miss Chill. He was a great finisher… Chills sounds like he made a mistake chasing the money… I’m guessing we use his rights to add some pieces next year…. Hard fought game that I felt we should have won.
GoSPYDER
December 17th, 2008
10:48 pm
Enter your comments here
BIG RAY: I certainly agree in regard to your takes on two points. ONE, the celts were determined to lock down jj tonight. He just HAS to pass the ball. The commentary of Marc Jackson lauded JJ’s unselfish play and how he was passing to teammates. Yet at the end of the game, I saw a lot of dribbles from joe, some attempted drives on his part, a LOT of wide-open Bibby and Williams, and not a lot of that unselfish play that Jackson was crooning about. That fact alone may have cost the Hawks the game. Of course, he may have just been doing what he was instructed to do by Woodson. Who knows. I wasn’t in the huddle. And TWO, until the bench contributes in big games like this one, the Hawks are going to fall short against the strongest teams in the NBA. Good points.
DecDawg
December 17th, 2008
10:51 pm
It’s not rocket science…we will always struggle in the last 3 minutes of a close game because our coach does not believe in running plays. The only play in the playbook is the high guard screen outside of the arc with Bibby and JJ. And for the record, ISO JJ is not a play. That’s just what we do.
These guys need to take a page from the Romy and Witten with the Cowboys and just make up their own plays in the hotel rooms…
GoSPYDER
December 17th, 2008
10:55 pm
Enter your comments here
Did like Bibby’s play for the most part. His height is a distinct disadvantage, but he kept it together tonight. He even foiled one late jumper with great defense. Overall, I give him a B+. He played a good game, and should have received more passes from johnson when he was open.
Star of the Zanarkand Abes!
December 17th, 2008
11:00 pm
And Bibby was open most of the 4th quarter… :p
doc
December 17th, 2008
11:08 pm
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gee it is great to go through this blog and see how well received the dynamic duo is … batman robin extraordinaire. also good to see it is sooo positive here that i feel good. it is so much better than that other negative blog.
i cringed when biiby seemed to get suck with pierce, though even with that pierce didnt go off. well fought game.
MannyT
December 17th, 2008
11:10 pm
Where is the love for Marvin? He played a heck of a game tonight. He was scrapping on defense and on the boards. While Josh played fumblerooski, Marvin’s hands were much more steady than usual. Maybe he needs that UNC style big spotlight on his game to calm down.
I wish Woody had played Zaza more in the first half. He seemed to be in the right place at the right time to scrap inside. However, the egg timer went off and back to the bench–no regard for his positive impact on the game.
As for Joe and passing out of the double team, it seems that the most successful teams have the defense spread out and the 2nd pass after the double is the one that gets the open shot. We don’t seem to move the ball well with that 2nd pass to get an open look. Probably something to do with our offensive scheme or is it the offensiveness of our scheme…hmmm
Oh well, let’s take it out on Golden State on Friday.
BWAF
Star of the Zanarkand Abes!
December 17th, 2008
11:13 pm
Hey, blogmasters! Tell AJC to code this comment box so the “Enter comments here” text disappears when you click in this box. I’m just sayin’
HB Ando
December 17th, 2008
11:21 pm
Spyder, bench has got to play to contribute. There has been an ongoing discussion, amongst long-standing blog members, about Woody’s unwillingness to use his bench. Early in the season, he seemed to have evolved. But in the last few games, he’s reverted to his old ways. Tonight, the starters played 199 of a possible 240 minutes, with an 8-man rotation. These numbers are even more drastic than Saturday’s win against the Cavs, when the bench combined for 53 minutes.
While you can’t argue with the win against the Cavs, or the near-win, against the Celtics, the fact that Woody has reverted to overplaying his starters just revisits the old concerns about him risking the teams’ playoff potential for immediate gratification. The fact that the Hawks had a 6-9 run, while Josh was out/shaking off the rust, underscores just how quickly things could turn south if a key member of the team had a serious injury.
The seemingly accurate observation that the Hawks have to lean on the high guard screen is less about a lack of creativity, and more a concession that we still don’t have a legitimate low-post scorer. The reason that flaw seems to be exposed late in games is that ALL NBA games grind down to half-court sets, when the outcome is close, or during the playoffs.
As far as Bibby needing more passes when open, I’m not seeing him open that much. Clearly his game is now built on catch-and-shoot. But JJ has never been selfish, and Bibby isn’t that quick. And the box score suggests that, once again, young Rondo got the best of the PG match up.
HB Ando
December 17th, 2008
11:23 pm
Star, no doubt. I’ll add that to the list of kinks that need working out…….
Star of the Zanarkand Abes!
December 17th, 2008
11:24 pm
**Ando** Thanks, and kudos for getting us a blog by fans, for fans!
one66soul
December 17th, 2008
11:37 pm
Free Throws Killed Us!
MannyT
December 18th, 2008
12:02 am
Why do I suspect that Woody will use the easy double talk to justify his lack of bench play.
If we are winning, it is important to keep a good thing going. He’ll monitor the starters minutes (but he won’t decrease them.)
If we are losing, it is important to have the best 5 on the court. No time for on the job training. That’s why we have practice.
He’ll apologize at the end of the season about not using AC & Solo enough.
New year, more success, but similar patterns that make me cynical.
BWAF
HB Ando
December 18th, 2008
12:21 am
Manny, you know that I struggle to identify with cynicism, but I feel you. Ray hit it on the head, regarding the Hawks playing starters against the Celtic bench, early in the fourth quarter. We were on the phone, and it was so obvious that the implications of that match up would result in Boston playing well-rested starters, against our tiring starters, at the end of the game.
But that point seems like a micro-analysis. I posted about KG wandering his way to a 2-10 night, mid way through the 4th quarter, over on SS’s blog. And then, seemingly out of nowhere, there’s the KG that folks think of, when discussing the best players in the NBA. Next thing you know, he’s closing with a 5 for 5 FG performance.
As I’m typing, Walton is dogging our offensive approach, and highlighting how Rondo is the superior PG, over Bibby. OK, Sekou, I know you don’t like Walton. Who does? But the numbers, and a thorough observation of the whole game, actually support his points…..
MannyT
December 18th, 2008
12:44 am
I did not see/hear Walton and I am not trying to put Bibby above Rondo, but they play very different roles for their teams. Bibby is more like our version of Ray Allen. Hit the open jumpers and give us a good punch on offense. We don’t expect much defense from him.
Rondo needs to play strong D for the Celtics. He is a younger version of what Claxton was supposed to be in Atlanta. Provide on-ball pressure and disrupt the offense without letting the other PG break you down and attack the lane.
As for our bench, the proper time to give them a chance was during the first 23 games when we had 8 back to backs (16 games). If Mario only gets 5 minutes, do I worry about him fouling out…probably not. If AC makes a mistake or two in his 10-15 minutes will that cost us the game? Maybe, but it’s more likely that one of the rested starters will make up for it because of 32 very active minutes instead of 32 good minutes and 10 energy conserving minutes on the court.
The only thing more frustrating than Woody is the radio broadcast joke on 790. Sometimes you hear some games unless there is a GaTech game, or there are too many stars in the sky. I was in the parking lot just before the game started and I laughed when they said they were cutting over to the Tech game, but you could hear the Hawks on NBA.COM I guess I need to get my ride upgraded with a high speed internet satellite connection ;-0
Next season maybe I’ll team up with Bill Nye, the science guy, to make a bid for the radio rights. Off to Costco for a stack of batteries! http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/radio6.htm
BWAF
Brian
December 18th, 2008
12:57 am
Typical of the Hawks. Can’t trust them to do anything that meaningful. You surely can’t trust JJ when the game is on the line. He proved that.