What will Braves do now that Phillies have Lee?
Cliff Lee has reportedly opted to rejoin the Phillies. (Matt Slocum, AP)
Free-agent left-handed pitcher Cliff Lee has reportedly spurned the offerings of the New York Yankees and Texas Rangers and opted to sign with the Philadelphia Phillies – the team that traded him away to land Cy Young Award winner Roy Halladay.
A fourth-round draft pick in 2000, Lee is 102-61 with a 3.85 ERA in nine major league seasons. He has excelled in the postseason, going 7-2 with a 2.13 ERA for Philadelphia and Texas in the past two years, including 3-0 with a 1.88 ERA against the Yankees.
According to the Associated Press, Lee has accepted the Phillies’ preliminary offer of a $100 million, five-year contract.
Lee passed up an extra $50 million from the New York Yankees to join a rotation that includes Halladay, Cole Hamels, and Roy Oswalt.
How does that stack up against Tim Hudson, Derek Lowe, Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens?
The deal clearly makes Philadelphia the favorites to win the N.L. East and the World Series. How should the Braves counter this move? With who? For how much?
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192 comments Add your comment
Roja
December 14th, 2010
10:11 am
When Cliff Lee last pitched for the Phillies, the Braves won the season series from the Phils. When has he led a team to a World Series Championship?
Bravo
December 14th, 2010
10:11 am
There’s no way to sugar coat this news – The Phils have to be considered the NL East favorites based on their rotation. Based on our rotation and bull pen, The Braves have to be considered the Wild Card favorite. With steroids being monitored more closely, baseball is retruning to a more normal game where good pitching trumps good hitting the majority of the time. The Phillies have very good to great starting pitching and the Braves have very good starting and relief pitching. The biggest question marks for the Phils will be an aging line up, loss of Werth, and suspect relif pitching. The biggest question marks for the Braves are centerfield, third base and first base. It should be an interesting 2011. Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels – damn!
Scott Boras
December 14th, 2010
10:11 am
Jordan Schafer will come out of this Spring Training as the CF starter and will finally be the player the Braves have been expecting him to be. The Braves will happily eat $3M of McLouth’s annual salary to ship him off to somewhere else and the Braves will have an awesome lineup top to bottom. Will the Braves lineup stack up man to man with the Phillies? Probably not. But, as has been mentioned previously, just having the best talent doesn’t always guarantee success.
lexbrave
December 14th, 2010
10:12 am
how long until we get wren’s response of “we feel really good about our team”
Braves Fan No More
December 14th, 2010
10:14 am
When the team gets a real owner, then I’ll be back. Until then I am, Braves Fan No More.
lexbrave
December 14th, 2010
10:14 am
“When has he led a team to a World Series Championship?”
When has he pitched in the same rotation with Halliday, Oswalt and Hammels?
Johnny Fever
December 14th, 2010
10:15 am
Why the gloom? We have KK!
Johnny Fever
December 14th, 2010
10:17 am
Roja
December 14th, 2010
10:11 am
When Cliff Lee last pitched for the Phillies, the Braves won the season series from the Phils. When has he led a team to a World Series Championship?
Ahhh….this year with texas rangers…
varoadrunner
December 14th, 2010
10:25 am
Some on the blog are not reading about KC’s needs. Clearly, they are set in pitching from within. What Dayton Moore wants is “up-the-middle” players. Who could we possibly send to KC? If we still had Escobar, he’d make a good match for the Royals, but he’s gone. Do we send Prado? NO! Do we send Agon, then who plays short? I still say we need to spend some money on a powerful CF and let’s play ball. On paper, our rotation does not match up as well with Philly’s but we are in another year with some awful BIG IF’S. If Shafer, if McLouth, If Freeman, if Chipper, If minor or Beachy and so on………. Cross your fingers folks and let’s see if Wren will pull the trigger on a trade.
DavidC23
December 14th, 2010
10:28 am
My main concerns are the corner infield positions. I love Chipper and he has been my favorite Brave of all time, and we wouldn’t have won as many division titles if it wasn’t for him. And I wish he would come back 100%, but lets face it he won’t. More than likely Prado will have to fill in at 3rd a lot. And that only leaves us with Heyward in the outfield. We need way more depth in the case that Chipper doesn’t make it all season. And then Freman. The dude has incredible potential. But can he step right up in his rookie season and produce big numbers, not likely. I am hoping for the best and like a kid waiting for Christmas Morning, I am waiting for Spring Training to start.
coach smith
December 14th, 2010
10:28 am
it is simple trade away anything it takes to get Upton from the D-Backs
Bravo
December 14th, 2010
10:28 am
Going into 2011, the NL East teams look like this:
Phillies look like the team to beat.
Braves look like the Wild Card favorite.
Nationals will be improved but not ready to contend.
Marlins, always pesky, will be good but not a contender.
Mets are in shambles and have a lock on the basement.
And yet, one never knows, and that’s the beauty of a baseball season.
bruce mac
December 14th, 2010
10:33 am
The game is not played on paper or the Giants would not be World Series Champs and the Braves would have more than one World Series ring. The Braves need an outfielder and it isn’t because of the Cliff Lee deal. With another talent in the outfield I like our chances. For whatever reason the straw (Rollins) ain’t stirring the drinnk anymore and that is the key to the Phillies. I guaranty one of these Philly pitchers will end up on DL for extended period. That is just the law of averages for 30 something pitchers. The Braves will have injuries too which is why we need another outfielder with pop or speed and a high OBP. We have plenty of pitching depth.
TB
December 14th, 2010
10:33 am
I must admit I didn’t know who Grienke was to all these trade rumors started flying. Neither did any of the people I talk baseball with on a daily basis. So I looked him up. 10 W & 14 L & a 4.17 ERA doesn’t impress me much. He puts up a lot of innings & Ks, but I wouldn’t trade Conrad for him, if it was up to me which it’s not. Fans are making a knee-jerk reaction to this & they shouldn’t. Our pitching is fine. We’ve beaten all the top pitchers before. The only place this really does them any good is if they make the playoffs. And I don’t recall that either the Yankees or the Phils made it to the world series last year. I still like the Braves chances.
ChrisfromSacrament,CA
December 14th, 2010
10:35 am
Im sorry but for the paople who say we have a great staff, you people are out of your minds.
Lowe is a inninges eater at best.
Hudson may be a top 10 pitcher in the National League. May be!
Hanson stuff can be electric at times.
JJ Just another young pitcher whos light has dimmed.
Beachy Funny
The Phils just won the National League last night.
Halladay Hof’er
Hammels WS MVP Allstar
Oswalt Can dominate teams
Lee Top three lefty in baseball
The Philie Phanatic is better than out fifth starter.
The Phils have a great rotation. Maybe more dominiate than the 90’s Braves. Sad to say the Braves dont have a dominate rotation that misses bat. POWER ARMS WIN IN THE POST SEASON. ASK THE GIANTS. Maybe with Greinke it makes it better.
The Phills pen is horrible, but they still hit way better than the Braves. It is going to be a long year
LivinInAL
December 14th, 2010
10:41 am
I hear you guys beating drum for Greinke, but I think the Yankees are going to after him in a rage after Lee dumping on them.
justin1
December 14th, 2010
10:45 am
Braves Fan No More:
You are a nerd.
Matt
December 14th, 2010
10:48 am
The Braves need to get another bat. It’s imperative we get a better option at CF. That’s going to be the difference.
hawaiibravefan
December 14th, 2010
10:48 am
Oooo scary. the phillies have cliff lee, roy oswalt, roy halladay, and cole hamels in a same rotation. Wasn’t how the yankees were last season with cc sabathia, andy pettite, phil hughes, and a.j. burnett? haha i won’t be surprised if oswalt stinks it up, cliff lee is average, and cole goes to waste. The Philies are the “YANKEE WANNA BE’S”
ExBraves Fan
December 14th, 2010
10:50 am
How should they react????? By purchasing their high school, college and pro football tickets right now for the 2011 season. The lowly Braves ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THE EAST. You heard it here first. Plus, the wild card is probably LONG GONE also. They simply will not compete this year. Before a couple more seasons are gone, even WA will be above the lowly Braves. Good luck Freddie. You are going to NEED it!!!
Keith
December 14th, 2010
10:58 am
So now they have like 3 clutch pitchers in the postseason: Lee, Halladay, Oswalt.
Yes, we are playing for the division at this point. HOwever, Phils are one injury away from the Braves and Phils being even after the Uggla deal. We will see!
SALARY CAP PLEASE!
BeerDawg
December 14th, 2010
10:58 am
OK folks, y’all want to trade the farm for Greinke who has emotional and anxiety problems, this fact on a guy who played in that pressure packed atmosphere known as Kansas City……Really??
Dean
December 14th, 2010
10:58 am
Build up your bullpen as the Braves have. They simply can’t get anymore pitching for their bullpen cna they? Your not going to get a better top 4 than that so don’t even try. No need to panic, just go out there and win an many as you can. Get hot in the postseason and that’s the way you do it. As I remember, the other 3 didn’t get the Phils to the world series and Lee didn’t fare so well in the world series. it stinks, but don’t let it change our goals and what we have already built.
Keith
December 14th, 2010
10:58 am
*playing for the WC* meant to say
Keith
December 14th, 2010
11:00 am
Greinke had one stellar season, but is a basket case and his mental/emotional state definitely affects his play from year to year. Keep JJ. The upside of JJ is much greater than the upside to Greinke…and Greinke’s downside much greater than JJ’s.
Eric B
December 14th, 2010
11:01 am
Get Greinke!
Johnny Fever
December 14th, 2010
11:06 am
Ill sign with the braves for league minimum of 1 miliion.
Kentavo
December 14th, 2010
11:07 am
Do not subract pitching; if we can get Greinke another way, do it.
Then sign from this group: Branyan; Cantu, D.Lee, Nady, Damon.
Or say, F it, go for broke, sign Beltre and move to Chipper to LF, and 1b (spelling Freeman) – I know, I know, this will never happen, but this is a blog.
Johnny Fever
December 14th, 2010
11:08 am
jj is not dynomite. Very inconsistant. That is his problem. If he was a rookie, fine. You dont know who you are getting.
Jack G
December 14th, 2010
11:12 am
Hey folks—dont panic—-they still have to play the games.These high priced players dont always pan out.—Where did the Yankees with the big payroll finish last year??? World series champs (chumps)???
felix
December 14th, 2010
11:13 am
the braves shold play hard too so we have talent to make good trade for grenke
KevClo
December 14th, 2010
11:16 am
Call back Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddox. to the line up they can pull it back for two more seasons. They will be really CHEAP. Right Braves CHEAP……….
Johnny Fever
December 14th, 2010
11:17 am
grenke? con someone explain why?
justwanna win
December 14th, 2010
11:19 am
Hall & Upton….
BuckyD
December 14th, 2010
11:19 am
The Mets tried this 2-3 years ago.. it takes more than 2 great pitchers to dominate a league.. They still do not have as many quality startes as we do, they do NOT have the Bull Pen, and they lost a excellent hitter(Werth).. The team with the fewest injuries to their starters and the deepest Bench and Bullpen will Dominate this season.. Go Bravos….
TB
December 14th, 2010
11:21 am
Why don’t the Braves just concede now & let’s all crown the Phils world champs? Because they still have to play the games, you morons. Why don’t you do us all a favor & just pack up & move to Philly right now?
South Georgia Braves
December 14th, 2010
11:23 am
Come on everybody. Adding Lee certainly helps the Phils, but the games have to be played. And look at their W-L last year. Besides Halladay (21-10), it looks like this – Lee (12-9), Hamels (12-11) and Oswalt (13-13).
A few years back, when Randy Johnson signed with the Yanks, everyone crowned them champs in December…but it didn’t happen.
The loss of Werth has to be adressed. No, I can’t award them the series yet. It isn’t won on paper – it’s won on the field.
And Greinke?? Anyone look at his stats last year? He had a great year two years ago and won the CY Young. Anyone remember Jake Peavy or Pat Hentgen?
stew
December 14th, 2010
11:26 am
Tyler
I couldn’t agree with you more. Yanks are desperate for pitching. We can now dump D Lowe and his 15 mill per year which the bottomless pit (Yanks) will go for. He ain’t gonna pitch like he did at the end of the year. After that trade for Greinke. Keep JJ and let them choose from Minor/Beachy/Vizcaino/Hoover. Teheran and Delgado should be untouchable.How is it that Phils can now afford Lee after trading him 2 years ago because they couldn’t pay Hallyday and him. Yanks are desperate! DUMP LOWE WHILE WE CAN!
Rocky Mountain Bulldog
December 14th, 2010
11:27 am
Be prepared to play, for a wild card spot. Barring a major Phillie’s injury.
feartheBraves
December 14th, 2010
11:28 am
If the Braves are willing to consider a trade for Greinke, they should also check with the Mariners about Felix Hernandez – he’s more consistent anyway. It would probably take a package including 1 or 2 of these 3: Jurrjens/Beachy/Minor, and 1 or 2 top prospects – yeah, it’s a steep price, but King Felix is still young.
Or maybe the best thing to do this season is nothing at all. The Braves will be starting young players like Heyward and Freeman (potentially Schafer as well). Plus, they’ve got all kinds of young pitching talent. Do you wait and give the younger guys time to develop, or do you trade a few away for a proven star?
DieHardPhilsFan
December 14th, 2010
11:30 am
oh you guys are so adorable. You keep mentioned what did all that pitching in the 90’s bring the braves? except, you forget you need hitting too…of which the phils have plenty. I love the comment about if the braves hadn’t had injuries to…what was it…3 forgettable players they’d have won the division. Priceless!!! Lets play that game…if the phils hadn’t had injuries to…Utley, Rollins, Howard, Ruiz, Victorino, Polanco, Ibanez, Madson, Romero, among others…they’d have won the division by 15 games. Did you happen to notice their record in the end of the season? Despite bad offense they finished 45-17. Imagine what’ll happen when their offense returns to normal, with this pitching staff.
And the phils worked their way into elite company like the red sox and yanks. Braves could’ve too, so stop whining about it. man this is gonna be a great year!
Brooklyn Braves Brawler
December 14th, 2010
11:40 am
I am amazed at how people are calling Zach Greinke a “basket case” or a “head case” when the fact of the matter is that we had knuckleheads like John Rocker and Deion Sanders in our organization.
Lets be clear, Grienke is better than any pitcher we have in the Bravos org right now, period! Huddy and DLowe have one 20 win season each while Grienke has a Cy Young award in the hitter friendly AL.
Prospects are just that, prospects and they are all “can’t miss” until they do miss. Grieke is as dominant as King Felix and narrows the gap for the Bravos if acquired. The goal is to win games at the MLB level.
Minor league glory does not equate to pro success. You make the deal with the Royals and that means that JJ/Beachy/Viscaino or Teheran/ goes. If you can get them to take KK or Nate then throw that in as well. You make the deal to win and compete now.
Johnny Fever
December 14th, 2010
11:43 am
@South Georgia Braves
December 14th, 2010
11:23 am
Im sure KK was awesome in japan years ago. Whats your point?
bvillebaron
December 14th, 2010
11:44 am
Keith:
There is no way that JJs upside is greater than Greinke. 27 year old pitchers who consistently throw in the mid 90s, have excellent secondary pitches and have already won a Cy Young award in the AL despite pitching for a truly lousy team don’t grow on trees. I saw somewhere where there were something like 10 or more games that the Royals scored ZERO runs while Greinke was still in the game pitching last year. I don’t care how good you are, zero run support adversely effects EVERY pitcher. Despite last year, Greinke’s combined ERA over the past 3 seasons in the AL is 3.24. If you accept the idea that on average an AL pithcer’s ERA in the NL will be about a half a run lower, this equates to 2.74.
The comment about Greine being a “basket case” because he suffered from an anxiety disorder at age 20 is frankly a cheap shot. He has gone to the post consistently since he received treatment for it in case you haven’t noticed. Maybe you recall a pretty fair pitcher who became really good after he started seeing a sports psychologist. Does the name John Smoltz ring a bell for you? Did you consider him to be a basket case too?
I for one would love to see what Greinke could do on a winning team in the NL such as the Braves. In my opinion, Hudson, Greinke, Hanson and Jurrjens match up very well with Halladay, Hamels, Lee and Oswalt and, with the exception of Hudson, are all much younger.
Brooklyn Braves Brawler
December 14th, 2010
11:47 am
I’m a big KK supporter having seen him pitch in Japan years ago. He is a really good pitcher but MLB hitter are the best in the world and even good pitches get hit at the MLB level. KK will be good somewhere else but as much as I love the Bravos, we weren’t equipped to handle Japaneese players.
KK would be better suited in Boston or Seattle, IMO!
Buster
December 14th, 2010
11:49 am
Bill Hall and J Upton….
bobbymahlon
December 14th, 2010
11:50 am
If my memory is correct JJ’s agent is Boros so this will be his last year with the Braves so why not try and get Greinke for JJ and a minor leaguer. Also if we could find some way to get Matt Kemp I like our chances just as good as the Phillies. Call me a dreamer if you want but I’m going to keep on dreaming. Good luck Wren.
Homer in Athens
December 14th, 2010
11:50 am
How old is hudson now? He will be 36 i believe this season. He had a great year but his age will show soon. We should trade him and get a young stud pitcher in return so we can re-set this staff with young talent. We should have traded chipper as well because he is done IMO. He will miss half the season because he has health issues and now another blown out knee. We should unload his ass too for another 3b or perhaps a talented young CF prospect. You gotta get something for players while they are worth something. We can get something good for huddy and maybe with chipper just because of his name. All wren has done is put a band aid over issues. We are gonna rely on freeman at 1b? Likely not a good situation there. I don’t think he is close to ready yet. We have a terrible OF and mcsuck is gonna start this year? Not again…i can’t take the 4 hoppers to 1b and all the strikeouts. Gonzo hit bombs in toronto but didn’t do much with the braves along with some silly errors. The braves are talking up a kid to possibly play LF who is hitting over .300 in the mexican league?? THE MEXICAN LEAGUE?? Jesus, we are NEVER going to win in the postseason with this lineup people! GET REAL! I can’t believe some of you claim “just get in the postseason”… and then what? Set a strikeout record in a series again? Lead all postseason teams in errors? This team still has a crap defense! Heyward is overrated as he*l! He reminds me of francoeur all over again. He takes biscuits down the pipe and swings at garbage. Look for the rockies to take the wildcard in 2011 not the braves. I would bet my house the braves don’t even make the playoffs in 2011! This team is average on paper as it gets. Decent pitching with an average lineup= NOT GONNA GET IT DONE!
GeuaxBravos
December 14th, 2010
11:51 am
Counter for Lee going to the Phils has to be done in combination bcuz their is no one player in Free agency..
Go for Grienke? yes..Trade JJ for him?no
Lowe and Conrad plus a low-mid level prospect should be a basis for that trade, and later trade Beachy and some other prospects for Upton. If we cant get Upton then go Beachy for Cain of the Brewers straight up maybe KK in the deal..Bill Hall can help counter as well..That combo gives us a leadoff/CF, another pitcher who will win 20 games with his pitching,an Omar Infante type Utility man and free ourselves of those money bugs..
“Injuries Bug” can still be a role player for the Braves,but they look pretty much out of the division..One homer from Howard with the Phils rotation can win games for them..
We cant get over the hump with Lowe( innings eater only),McClouth(Position player Bust), and KK(Pitching Bust) taking up alot of money as well..Those 3 need to be moved..
birddawgbill
December 14th, 2010
11:52 am
As a Braves fan I hate this. As a human being I gained much respect for Cliff Lee. According to The Herd on ESPN Radio, Lees son is in remission from leukemia and Philedelphia has the #1 childrens Hospital in the U.S. Thats why he went there and left money on the table. My hats off to you Cliff Lee.