Will the Boy Scouts allow gays?
Moderated by Tom Sabulis
The Boy Scouts of America said last week that it would delay until May a decision to reconsider its policy of barring openly gay people, a policy the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in 2000. Today, a Scouting activist endorses an end to the national ban. But a Christian leader argues that the moral absolute of Scouting has been put up for sale
Commenting is open following Jerry Luquire’s column.
Provide Scouting’s best for all families
By Gary B. Roberts
I am fortunate to work at an organization that values inclusion. I attend an Episcopal parish that is open and welcoming to all “sorts and conditions” of people. I am also an Eagle Scout and the father of an Eagle Scout. I’ve been a Cub Scout leader and an assistant scoutmaster at times in my life. I fully support the Boy Scouts of America.
For the past 10 years, I’ve been working with the Boy Scouts as the host for Merit Badge University at Kennesaw State University. This is an annual event where over 1,200 Scouts come to campus and participate in over 50 merit badge classes on a Saturday in October. Young men in khaki uniforms and merit badge sashes fill up our campus. Over 60 of my students volunteer to teach merit badge classes, serve as guides and even help park cars.
It’s a great event and very effective. Most boys leave having earned at least one merit badge, another step toward a Scout earning his Eagle award.
All of my students are required to have child protection training certificates from the BSA. We practice two-deep adult presence at all times. Safety of the Scouts is one of our primary concerns.
For the past three years, my graduate research assistant, Dennis, has been the primary project manager of this program. Starting almost a year before each event, Dennis has the primary responsibility for making things happen and coordinates between the university and the Boy Scouts. Without his attention to detail, the event would not be successful.
Here’s the irony. Dennis, who is 50 and working on his MBA, is a gay man in a committed long-term relationship. Currently, he is not allowed to hold any position with the Boy Scout organization. His work with Merit Badge University falls under the auspices of Kennesaw State University, where we make a good effort to protect our students from any form of homophobia.
Dennis volunteers his time working with an organization that would not allow him to be a member. Why? Because he sees the value of the program and is willing to “take one for the team” in order to make the world just a little bit better.
There are a lot of Dennises in the world. Many times, they receive no recognition and no reward.
I’m embarrassed for the Boy Scouts and their policy of excluding gay and lesbian adult leaders.
The proposed local option approach for Scouting puts the sexual orientation issue where it belongs. It is not, nor has it ever been, a core value of Scouting.
Every Scout leader I talk to about this clearly does not want to see Scouting divided into anti-gay troops or gay-friendly troops; they want to provide the best of Scouting to all boys and their families.
For some sponsoring organizations, sexual orientation may be fundamental. For most of us, it is not.
I just want Dennis to be accepted for who he is and for what he contributes.
Gary B. Roberts is professor of management and entrepreneurship at Kennesaw State University.
No right way to do wrong thing
By Jerry Luquire
About five months ago, I filled this space with an observation that the Boy Scouts of America had the right to make a decision regarding standards of its membership and leadership.
At that time, I agreed that the organization had correctly decided, in our opinion, to continue its exclusive inclusion of heterosexual males.
Recently, the national leadership indicated it was reviewing its 103-year history of providing character development with exclusive heterosexual acceptance, and possibly find a way for homosexual members and leaders to be accepted. This follows intense bullying from homosexual groups in demanding that corporate giving to the Boy Scouts be “outed” and to refuse further support.
The opposition says the Scouts discriminate, which they do. That is, if you apply the positive meaning of discrimination as “to detect or draw distinctions,” as defined in Webster’s dictionary. It is also known as membership standards.
The Boy Scouts of America’s National Executive Board had predicted a review but, with an embarrassingly absurd excuse, the board said, “Due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs more time for a more deliberate review of its membership policy,” until May.
That the stand was even questioned destroyed the integrity of the position. The refusal of this group to walk the walk that they talk gives the enemy a right to say the board is not really sure of its position; that it is saying it may be wrong; that maybe homosexuals camping with heterosexuals and being taught character by those who have heretofore been unacceptable is now somehow not a threat.
To an uninvolved observer, tragically, the 103-year-old moral absolute by the Scouts has gone to the auction block. Money, not morality, rules.
Just for discussion, forget who sleeps with whom and how. Look at what is really at issue here: the distribution of tax-free corporate dollars earned by profit-making corporations, owned by stockholders. If there is excess cash, let’s put it to a taxable use that will not cause arguments. These dollars belong to the stockholders, who expect the corporation to return maximum profits. If corporate heads want to support a nonprofit, let them do so as we do, from their personal incomes — a tax loophole that can be closed.
It does not matter now what the board decides in May. There is no additional damage that can be done. They have told the homosexuals, “You just might be right, and we may be wrong.” Which is all they wanted.
Scout leaders violated the organization’s best-known position and motto. When faced with choosing money or morality, they were not prepared. Perhaps they need to understand the saying, “There is no right way to do a wrong thing.”
Jerry Luquire is president of the Georgia Christian Coalition based in Columbus.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
30 comments Add your comment
Vashtai
February 14th, 2013
7:55 pm
When the Prop 8 came up for appeal, the only reasons the religious people could come up with was, 1) It’s in the Bible. 2) It’s how we’ve always done it. The third one (mostly unspoken) Gay people are icky.
BSA is going to find itself on the wrong side of history on this one. Ironic since the guy who founded BSA was a big old homo himself!
Roger L. Leonard
February 14th, 2013
8:23 pm
Just another crack in the moral foundation of this nation. God does not accept this behavior. It is immoral and unnatural! Read Romans chapter one.
SAWB
February 14th, 2013
8:56 pm
So, if there are certain phrases or words that get caught up in a filter or something could you guys let us know what they are. I’ve reviewed my post and they don’t have any offensive phrases or words, but they don’t seem to post. Maybe they got caught in an Information Superhighway jam or something. Oh wait I’ll call Al Gore for help…
SAWB
February 14th, 2013
8:57 pm
I have a novel idea respect the freedom and privacy of others and simply leave each other alone?
Dave
February 14th, 2013
9:36 pm
I do like the gay people are icky line.
I think people that are afraid of people that are different are icky, Mr. Luquire. You and the BSA have every right to hate and fear and exclude, the Supreme Court says so. But that’s a legal thing. Hopefully the BSA will decide that that’s not the way to go forward from a common sense and moral point of view.
An aside Mr. Luquire, were you against corporate donations when the corporations acquiesced to your homophobic view? I got a dollar says your weren’t; though, it’s the only valid point you made in your piece.
Roger L. Leonard
February 14th, 2013
10:12 pm
This “homophobia” catch phrase is nothing more than a pathetic defense mechanism. Homosexuality is immoral and repulsive to GOD. I am afraid of the immoral corruption of our culture and young boys (and girls), you bet. And the queer community wants to force others to embrace their filth! I hope the BSA stands strong on this and does not cave in.
Bernie
February 14th, 2013
11:16 pm
Be Patient everyone….It will happen as sure as Peachtree St. runs to Buckhead. This same attitude and decision was directed at African Americans during the civil rights ERA and before. The BSA Blinked then too! I remember when I was younger in Atlanta being an African American Male in 1966, being refused and scorned membership in the overwhelming majority of the local Atlanta Boy Scout Troops based primarily on skin color alone. Remember, Jesus was persecuted TOO!
Karma is a real you know WHAT!
Brad Shaw
February 15th, 2013
6:49 am
Heterosexuals abuse kids too…
All this talk about God and sexual orientation distracts from our real purpose. Scouting is about outdoor/survival skills, responsibility, leadership, community service and moral integrity.
Morals come from within. It’s about how you conduct your life and how you treat others that matters… not your religious beliefs or who you sleep with.
n
February 15th, 2013
7:29 am
The boy scouts are partisan towards heterosexual members and they have the right to do so. Now if they were biased towards gay members they would be prejudiced.
We all have the right to be partisan. Being biased is something more, like admitting gay boys to the scouts and the segregating them from the rest of the scouts.
Prejudice, like denigating John McCain because he is a republican,
that smacks of bias. Trying to segregate John from the mainstream because of his political views. A highly decorated war hero deserves better. A combat pilot spending years as a prisoner of war.
Little Bird
February 15th, 2013
8:05 am
Why do gay men want to define their entire public personality based on their sexuality? Most people have interests, talents and skills that are not needed for sex. Maybe if they promoted those aspects of their personality, they would not feel “discriminated” against for their sexuality.
Boy Scout meetings are the perfect time for “don’t ask, don’t tell”
Whirled Peas
February 15th, 2013
8:11 am
If you send men with strange urges out into the woods overnight with young boys, bad things will happen. Ask me. I know. I spent three years in a catholic seminary. Enough said.
Dennis
February 15th, 2013
8:14 am
As the “Dennis” of the story, I felt I must comment as well. I was an active Boy Scout and served as a Den Chief for the Cub Scouts as well. I was there when the black troops were brought to camp at the same time as the white troops. Interestingly, it was mostly parents and leaders who were concerned about this integration. We were already attending school, playing sports and building friendships across racial lines. Yes there were some bullies who were very outspoken on the issue, but the majority of the boys were able to ignore them. The message from us kids was clear – we didn’t care anymore about racial divisions neither should our well meaning leaders care.
Similarly, the kids today don’t care about the gay issue. We have raised a great group of young men and women who are inclusive and accepting. Most don’t understand what the debate is about – these are my friends with whom I go to school and play sports. Maybe there friend has two fathers or two mothers – they question why aren’t their parents active in our troop?
Scouts did not teach me about sex or sexual orientation. It taught me to be a man – not a gay or straight man, just a man. It taught me to strive to be the best man I can. It taught me not to judge others. It taught me to give back to my community. These are the reasons I give back to the scouts now as an out gay man with limitations on what I can do. The program is good, the results are exceptional even despite the controversy surrounding it. Please fix the problem before you begin teaching our next generation that it is OK to be intolerant of those who believe or look differently than you. Learn from the past – integration did not kill the scouts as predicted – it made them stronger.
agent
February 15th, 2013
8:25 am
Might as well, this country has already turned into a liberal toilet.
zeke
February 15th, 2013
10:04 am
Typical liberal extortion politics against the Boy Scouts! Good people should stand up and fund the Scouts and tell the perverts to take a walk on I285 during rush hour! I personally decided years back when Levis stopped their almost century long support of the scouts that I would never ever again buy Levis or Dockers! And I love the Dockers clothing! My own little personal boycott! And Levis went bankrupt and had to ell itself! Good! Same should occur for every company that abandons the Scouts!
Extortion by a bunch of perverts is no reason to abandon your moral code!
Lars
February 15th, 2013
10:53 am
Thanks for what you’ve done and are doing, Dennis. And you’re right: today’s kids care less and less about such things, which means (thankfully) it’s only a matter of time before this archaic injustice washes away in the tide of history, too – just like segregation did. I seriously doubt gays are any greater percentage of the population today than they were fifty or seventy years ago, they’re just more noticeable because there’s less of a stigma attached than there was in those days. More and more people are becoming aware that they, too, know at least one – and often several – people in their own lives and their own communities who are both gay…and as ordinary as everyone else. Not predators or pedophiles or even particularly noticeable. And the more people recognize this, the less of an issue this will become, until most people can neither remember nor understand what all the fuss was about in the first place.
S.r.gregory
February 15th, 2013
10:59 am
Enter your comments hereIT COMES DOWN TO THIS, GOD DID NOT CREATE EVE TO GIVE MAN A CHIOCE NOT THE POINT THE GREAT I WAS GOING FOR, SO STOP TRYING TO TELL US IT,SOKAY AND WE HAVE TO EXCEPT IT. NO I DON,T THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE, COLOR , C REED OR RELIGION BSA EXCEPTS ALL OF THIS RESPECTS IT. THIS IS ALL MORALLY WRONG, GAYS SHOULD FIND THERE PROGRAM, AND LEAVE BSA ALONE . IN CLOSING SINCE WHEN DID ANY CORPERATE MPNY TRICKLEYW DOWN TO THE TROOP PROGRAMS ANY, IT ALL GOES TO THE EXECTS ON NOT US, SO WJAT DIFERANCE
Kenny Merriken
February 15th, 2013
11:00 am
I have a question for Mr. Jerry Luquire: Is the “103-year-old moral absolute by the Scouts” based on the Holy Bible (chapter and verse please) or is it based on another “moral absolute” standard?
Please answer the question. Thank you
Scrivener
February 15th, 2013
11:02 am
Dennis, I agree with most of your post. There is no room for discussion of sex or sexuality in Scouting. Scouting is a God-centered organization. It primarily adheres to Biblical principles. You admit that principles helped form you into the man you are today, and that is laudable. Opening inviting homosexuals into Scouting would be “inclusive” but also destructive to the organization. It would open the door to myriad lawsuits over who can wear what, who can camp out with whom, whose feelings get hurt, etc. It defies common sense to have openly gay men taking boys on Scouting trips. I’m sorry; it just does. You sound like an upstanding person, but there are plenty of men who are not, and they would welcome an opportunity to prey on young boys. Whether you care to admit it or not, the rich Scouting experience you had would not be what it was if their standards weren’t so high.
SBinF
February 15th, 2013
12:18 pm
“If you send men with strange urges out into the woods overnight with young boys, bad things will happen. Ask me. I know. I spent three years in a catholic seminary.”
Right, because homosexuality is synonymous with pedophilia.
You sir, are brilliant!
Of course the Boy Scouts will cave. They love the corporate donations, so they will sell out their beliefs to keep the cash flowing. If they had any balls, they would say to hell with the gays and stand by it. Hardly honorable either way. It’s a silly policy to exclude gays, and even sillier to go back on that policy for the love of money.
larry
February 15th, 2013
12:28 pm
No one is stopping gays from started their own scout program with the sexual preference standards they choose !!
DO NOT EXPOSE YOUNG KIDS TO SEXUAL PREFERENCES THAT ARE DETRIMENTAL TO THEIR MATURING PROCESS !!
Different strokes for different folks, different sexual oriented scout programs for those who are gay !!
SBinF
February 15th, 2013
12:40 pm
larry,
Sounds like your lack of grasp on reality is detrimental to your maturing process. There are gay people in the world. Get used to it. They operate in every strata of society. Police officers, teachers, cashiers. They’re everywhere! Better retreat to your underground bunker, lest you be forced to interact with one of them.
bookman parrot
February 15th, 2013
2:18 pm
even with potentially allowing gays into Boy Scouts you are still excluding by gender and age… you discriminatory animals … why not complain about that too lib wacks
LOL
Debbie
February 15th, 2013
4:06 pm
Tell me why can they not have their own group gays with gays and leave the rest of the boys alone why do they have to infrindge on where they are not wanted. I know that I do not want my boy around it and I will be pulling him out. No one should be pushed into this just because they want it its not right. I am tired of gays saying we have rights and we are going to get them. Well what about the rest of us we dont have any rights. ITS NOT RIGHT what happend to our form of RIGHTS.
Dave
February 15th, 2013
5:27 pm
I probably shouldn’t say this; but, I will – the anti-gay folks commenting here need some remedial spelling, grammar and syntax. I tried to read around the fourth grade writing but then all I was left with was hate.
Shamehia
February 15th, 2013
6:20 pm
“…Scouting divided into anti-gay troops or gay-friendly troops…”
I heard one news report that they’re actually considering that option, when you sign your kid up for Scouts you would designate gay troop or straight troop sort of like choosing paper or plastic in the grocery checkout. Having been in Scouts in another day and age that to me is just surreal and bizarre.
Scrivener
February 15th, 2013
6:30 pm
So, Dave, along with calling people hateful, homophobic and fearful you are now putting people down for their English skills. Charming.
Dave
February 15th, 2013
6:50 pm
Yes Scrivener. Your comment was the exception with one other, which I should have said. I’m still waffling on having made the comment; but, too much of what I consider hate speech comes from people who have poor English skills.
I disagree with you based on logic. You apparently think gay adults who would participate in Scouting are necessarily pedophiles. Does that mean that all straight males coming in contact with kids necessarily prey on little girls? There’s no difference in the logic. If straight males can deal with little girls, gay guys can deal with little boys. Or, please do enlighten me. And this God thing, you might want to take a survey on who believes in what. And because many are religious does that fill the field? No non-religous need apply?
I’m being strident which I don’t like to be; but, I’m tired of the religious right, many members of which aren’t well educated, co-opting morality and dictating to others. Not charming; but, realistic.
Back Atchy
February 16th, 2013
4:23 am
And I’m sick and tired of advocates of perversion, defending it by calling those that advocate morals homophobes, intolerant, bigotted, non-inclusive, haters. Try calling God that and see how that works out for you. He made the rules. Don’t try to counter by taking bible verses out of context, or comparing old testament examples of barbarous behavior to new testament teachings. Will it be pedophillia or beastiality next. Oh those are illegal. Hmmmm so was homosexuality.
Dennis
February 16th, 2013
3:19 pm
Scrivener,
I understand your position, but it does come with a flaw. You are assuming that there are no gay people who support the scouts, and I am an example of one who does. There are also scouts them selves who are gay. The issue is truly we tell these boys that they are substandard and not good enough to be a scout. The important things that the boys learn from scouting is self-esteem and leadership qualities. It also teaches them to be honest. Don’t ask – don’t tell creates an environment of lies and deception neither of which is a quality of a good scout. Was I not gay as a child? Yes, I knew when I was young that I was different, but I went through the motions of being what was expected and hurt several people along the way unintentionally.
As far as the rest of you who are worried about openly gay men around young boys, we are open for a reason. My partner and I are often mistaken as straight men, and could blend right without issue. We chose to be open with our friends, family and colleagues because we try to be an example to society. Also, when we keep this secret away from them, do they really know us or just the mask we portray? I value honesty too much not to be honest to the people around me in my life and my community. It is the people who are not open and honest about who they are that are the pedophiles. They are good at wearing the mask and are your neighbors, preachers, youth ministers and yes, sometimes scout masters. No parent says, “I knew he was a pedophile” after their child is molested. Also, keeping open gays out of leadership positions has not removed the problem. Children are still being molested by sick people often by people with children of their own.
Again, I truly support Scouting and will abide by their decision. I will not boycott companies that support them or that withdraw their support. I pray that they reach the right decision soon, as it is indecisiveness that will destroy an institute that I cherish fondly. If I had adopted a child, I would strongly encourage their participation in the program (with or without me as a leader). I support my community troops (boys and girls) by buying, applauding and supporting their activities. I am proud to be part of organizing of the largest inclusive (Boy and Girl Scouts) Merit Badge day in our region. I indirectly touch the lives of nearly 1000 children each year through this event. Children ARE our future, and programs like these and many others are making our future brighter.
Dave
February 16th, 2013
6:29 pm
Back Atchy, whose morals? I assume you consider yourself to have a monopoly? Being black and free used to be against the law. Do you think God is still, if there’s been a change, on that side of that question? I’d appreciate you explaining the difference between gay and black when it comes to God.