Panhandling pressure downtown
Moderated by Tom Sabulis
Failure has marked the city of Atlanta’s attempts to curb panhandling, particularly aggressive begging from repeat offenders. The latest proposal calls for stiffer penalties such as mandated jail time for a third conviction. Homeless activists say the measures criminalize poverty; proponents add that tougher laws are aimed at a small group of incorrigible mendicants. Below, a business leader writes how panhandling affects commercial life and civic pride, while an activist says laws don’t get at the root of the problem.
Commenting is open below Joe Beasley’s column.
By William “Chick” Ciccaglione
Underground Atlanta is a major attraction, welcoming millions of tourists, convention goers, residents and office workers annually. The property sits on 12 acres and spans six blocks in the heart of downtown Atlanta and was acquired by O’Leary Partners, Inc. in 1999.
The panhandling “issue” existed then and still exists today, with more frequency and aggression.
Over time, aggressive panhandling has become a citywide issue, but it does seem as though the Five Points area is most plagued by the act.
The MARTA station is the nucleus of our transit system, flanked by one of the city’s most historic landmarks, city, state, county and federal offices, Georgia State University and residential buildings.
This area including Underground Atlanta is weighed down by things like quality-of-life issues, loitering, irresponsible property owners, unregulated vending and aggressive panhandling.
A number of laws, policies and procedures, task forces and awareness campaigns have been implemented over the years. Unfortunately, none have resulted in long-term effectiveness and, as a result, panhandling has become increasingly worse.
Responsible property owners are frustrated. Residents are frustrated. Law enforcement is frustrated.
At present there is no glue holding up the current panhandling ordinance in court, making it extremely hard to enforce any repercussions for participating in aggressive panhandling.
Underground Atlanta has its own policies and procedures in place that we enforce internally, but battling the issue is extremely challenging and creates additional expenses for the property: security, housekeeping and building maintenance.
Multiple real estate deals have fallen through based on these experiences and, depending on the economics of each deal, have resulted in loss of potential income from $10,000 to $1 million, which means less taxes collected and jobs created for the city, state and county.
We have issued approximately 350 criminal trespasses year-to-date and 50 to 60 percent of those were issued to aggressive panhandlers. That’s approximately one per day, and those are panhandlers who would not leave the property peacefully, many of whom are repeat offenders.
Earlier this year a group of Underground Atlanta business owners and a few allies in the district approached Mayor Kasim Reed on the subject.
In response, Mayor Reed spent an afternoon observing. As a result, a new task force was formed, spearheaded by Central Atlanta Progress (CAP), called Operation Best Foot Forward.
The group includes us at Underground Atlanta, a number of properties and business owners including Fairfield Inn & Suites, CAP staff members, the Atlanta Downtown Neighborhood Association, Atlanta Police Department, GSU police, MARTA police, the mayor’s office, as well as other invested stakeholders.
This task force is addressing a number of things: panhandling, quality-of-life issues, aesthetics and beautification, code enforcement and unified law enforcement.
We are pleased and optimistic the public safety committee chaired by Councilman Michael Bond, Mayor Reed and the City Council are taking a serious look at strengthening panhandling legislation and that this is a priority for more than those of us living through it daily.
We know things will not change overnight, but we are encouraged by the recent interest taken in this issue and glad to be heard that we need help.
The Five Points MARTA Station is the busiest in the system with 800,000 people passing through per month.
Therefore this entire area should be beautiful, clean, vibrant; a destination for our residents and visitors. An area that we are proud of.
Something has to be done.
William “Chick” Ciccaglione is general manager of Underground Atlanta.
By Joe Beasley
Panhandlers give downtown Atlanta a “black eye,” critics say.
They’re too pushy.
They frighten people when they beg.
They’re a threat to the city’s multibillion dollar convention and tourism industry because the very sight of beggars, the majority of whom are African-American men, appear to be threatening.
Panhandlers must be stopped to protect public safety, critics argue, even if it means locking them up in overcrowded jails for what some perceive as criminal behavior.
Atlanta has a long history of trying to criminalize homelessness that dates back to the early ’70s. Georgia State University professor Charles G. Steffen documents it in a study he published recently in the Journal of Social History called “The Corporate Campaign against Homelessness: Class Power and Urban Governance in Neoliberal Atlanta, 1973-1988.”
The most recent proposal, introduced by City Councilman Michael J. Bond, to jail aggressive panhandlers for a minimum of six months after a third conviction, is based on convoluted logic.
Criminalizing panhandling is like putting a Band-Aid on cancer.
It doesn’t heal the fact that we have a lot of desperate, needy people in Atlanta, particularly African-American men who have never really had a place in this country.
As descendants of slaves and sharecroppers, black men have been pushed off the land and into urban areas where they have never had a home.
But the city too busy to hate just doesn’t get it.
The formal leaders – Mayor Kasim Reed and Bond – and the informal, behind-the-scenes power brokers such as Central Atlanta Progress, the chamber of commerce, Coca-Cola and the Convention and Visitors Bureau, refuse to deal with the root causes of poverty and panhandling.
People are being marginalized in our society.
There are no jobs.
Social services are scarce and the needy continue to be locked out.
The systemic problem is racism and an unequal justice system where black males make up more than 50 percent of the jail and prison populations.
When they get out, they have a scarlet letter on their foreheads that makes them less likely to succeed in a capitalistic society.
Advocates for Bond’s proposal say they are targeting the “professional” beggar who is aggressive and who really wants the money for drugs or alcohol.
I’ve heard businessmen claim there are only about 60 who meet that criteria. If that’s the case, and Atlanta police know who they are, why not deal with them directly instead of adopting an ordinance that penalizes everyone?
I would be more than willing to work on such a project.
There are about 50,000 vacant homes and buildings in Atlanta.
The $78 a day it takes to keep a person in jail could be used to provide social services and housing for the homeless.
City leaders need to stop this habit of blaming the homeless, the real victims in this debate.
If something is damaged, you fix it.
We have a lot of damaged people in society who need to be repaired.
As long as we are in denial about that, the problem will not go away.
Joe Beasley is is vice chair of the Task Force for the Homeless, and Human Services director for Antioch Baptist Church North.
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43 comments Add your comment
Bernie
September 6th, 2012
6:11 pm
Chick ,This is not a NEW Problem. It has been here for many years and unlike you I have no faith and confidence in Mayor Reed or Councilman BOND to provide you with a workable or reliable solution long term. I can share with you that they will smile, laugh and talk with you and provide you with the same false sense of security that so many past Mayors and councilpersons have done over the years. All who have very limited and short lived success. there is no easy answer to be found here. the solutions will involve many movable parts with a lot of hands on attention.
Do not be lulled in to a sense of false hope for you and your associates to only be disappointed and disheartened. when their Failure knocks at your door. Knock it surely will, just after their next election or planned political campaign.
I personally do not have a complete solution for you to take home. But if you are told
that incarceration is the key and answer. The final results will only be short termed and short lived. It will cost the city far too much in policing and incarceration costs to keep up with the pace of arrests.
I would suggest that you seriously consider opening up channels of communications
with Joe Beasley and other community organizations and local social services if you
really want to find a longer lasting and more humane solution. From my experience these groups will not fill your ears with false hope and promises. They will openly and honestly share with you potential avenues to be taken, to put most of these issues in a workable and containable box. This issue will always be a work in process because of its location. Pan handling has always has been a problem at that location and surrounding area, since the late 1960’s. Long before the MARTA five points train station was even on the drawing table. That is the Truth my friend.
Downtowner
September 6th, 2012
6:58 pm
As a downtown resident and homeowner for the last 14 years, I have a different opinion that is rarely mentioned. My experience and observation is that most of the panhandlers are NOT homeless. They are professional and in many respects they are entrepreneurs, plying their trade without permits or paying any taxes.
They also make life worse for the truly homeless, who are ill prepared to out-hustle these professionals.
It’s also foolish to give any of these people your money. Once you do it, they know what pocket your money or wallet is in. They can probably estimate, very closely, exactly how much cash you have. Plus, you’ll be remembered by this panhandler and his “associates” or “competitors” in the future.
George
September 6th, 2012
7:29 pm
As a slightly OTP resident, I seldom go downtown for the reasons mentioned above. I would like to visit the city more often to try new restaurants, sports, culture, etc. but it is not worth the hassle or the “hustle”. It makes me uncomfortable. I do not want to take friends down from out of town to check out the Underground entertainment for fear of embarrasment, and that is too bad. The businesses could use the money and the city the tax revenue. This is not a complex issue as some suggest . It just takes leadership and some political guts. Atlanta will stagnate until issues like this are addressed.
Bernie
September 6th, 2012
7:31 pm
Downtowner @ 6:58 pm – LOL! oh yes, as with any thing in life you will have the Liars and the dishonest ….such is life. However, there are many that have had a bad turn life. Some by happenstance and many by their own makings and creations. Many are there due to mental illness as well. We cannot just throw them ALL behind bars and close our eyes and hope the disappear. That is a Fools game. In time they will return, because there is no other place for them to go. A portion of your statement is a gross exaggeration as well, just as they too will overstate the situation. but I understand what you mean.
Daphne
September 6th, 2012
7:45 pm
A co-worker and New Jersey native came down to our satellite office to drop off her daughter, who is attending a school in the Atlanta University Complex. When she got to Five Points station from the airport, she said she immediately knew the area wasn’t safe, and she was surprised by it all as an out-of-towner.
IMO, there are too many “personalities,” Atlanta “characters” who, suffering from the legacy of racism, are panhandling with an implied understanding that they are here to make society suffer back for its wounds.
A small racially mixed group of people recently toured the MLK district, learning some of the history of the Old Fourth Ward from a native here. As day waned toward evening, the group was treated to a heckling along its way to see the John Wesley Dobbs sculpture on Auburn Ave. The man sang loudly, as if to taunt, “Somebody’s gonna hurt someone, before the night is through.”
There are some sins that can never be expiated. So too with shameless behavior. Historical context is no refuge.
A Fed Up Downtown Worker
September 6th, 2012
8:42 pm
For individuals like myself who have a business or work downtown every day, people like Joe Beasley just make me sick. We work hard every day to try to put food on the table to feed our families in a tough economic climate and downtown workers are confronted by the same silliness every day. The drunks, the drug addicts and even able bodied men demanding you give them money to feed their sick habits or help them to maintain their lazy lifestyle. Women being verbally abused by nasty men showing their dirty underwear thinking they are cool. In all the years working downtown, I have never seen a person from Latin America ever beg me for money. They are usually seen on MARTA covered with dirt after working on a construction job or cleaning someone’s bathroom. If they were willing to crawl across the desert to find work in America, why can’t the panhandlers of downtown Atlanta at least try and do the same?
SAWB
September 6th, 2012
9:08 pm
While I am well aware of these individuals I personally don’t see it as much of a problem. When they start harassing me I very firmly tell them to” leave me the _____ alone” and they “leave me the ____alone”. The answer is really quiet simply just stop giving them anything and they’ll go away.
Bernie
September 6th, 2012
9:31 pm
The Pan handling issue is just another symptom of our societies many Ills. There is no easy solution or just one answer to resolve all of them at once. It will have to take the involvement of all involved to make it better. That will be the only way we come to a compromise with this ongoing problem. This is not a new issue for City Hall and those who work there. They are just as frustrated too! and sure exactly what to do.
It is going to take more action from the community as a whole to help reduce this problem. Without that approach we are just putting our sunglasses on leaving the problem to someone else to solve and keep on walking by. Just as many
do everyday!
Meli
September 6th, 2012
9:39 pm
The simple truth is the reason there has been little to no effect on panhandling in Atlanta is all the previous laws that have been passed on the matter are NEVER enforced. We have laws on Aggressive Panhandling, Public Nusicances, Urban Camping, etc. When was the last time any resident, vistior, or employee can actually say they’ve seen the Atlanta Police arrest anyone on those violations, other than an effort to drive Occupy Atlanta out of Woodruff Park? The ordinances that have been passed by the City Council and signed into law by three mayors now, are just a dog-and-pony show meant to show the people they’re ‘getting tough’, when they have absolutely no intention of actually following through. If the APD were to simply sweep through Five Points and Woodruff Park with a battalion of officers and 10 Paddy Wagons every other week, arresting people under the existing laws, you’ll clean up the area in no time.
shelly patos
September 6th, 2012
9:39 pm
Im sorry but Ive worked downtown for 10years and see the SAME faces over and over! They(most of them) do NOT want “help” they want MONEY.If you offer them food or work they come up with some B?S excuse.There are many jobs they would qualify for but they chose to live the lifestyle they lead.Ask any officer.If they wanted off the streets they would easily be able to do so. Go ask one next time theyre harrassing you for money if they want to come and rake your yard or help you do something.
Underarm pit
September 6th, 2012
10:11 pm
Underground has sucked since the 80’s when it came back. It’s never come close to it’s initial heyday that died in the early 70’s. Put a fork in it! Only tourists go there, and i bet there are quite underwhelmed by all the shifty folks and closed storefronts.
And don’t even get me started on the dolts that say it should be turned into a casino… Egads, they’ d have some lovely folks hanging out in there.
It’s just a few blocks too far from CNN, Olympic park, aquarium, dome, the Ted, and too much no mans land between all those places, which is really unfortunate. All the pieces are there but they are just too far apart to make it truly walk able. People want to feel safe as they walk along. And when the walk entails stretches of non-storefronts, it makes them wonder if they are heading into a sketchy area, ESP when you can’ t see the destination in the distance.
Some stupid peach tree trolley isn’t going to cure that I’ll either.
D Right One
September 6th, 2012
10:18 pm
The 60 mentioned that are the professionals should be rounded up and prosecuted. Shouldn’t be too hard to find several laws that they’ve broken. Once we get them all forewarned, the next act gets them thrown in jail for 3-5years. Show some backbone with these guys and the problem is partially solved.
Susan
September 6th, 2012
11:18 pm
“…particularly African-American men who have never really had a place in this country.”
News flash, Mr. Beasley. Most African American men DO have a place in this country. THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN MAN. You can’t claim an entire group is disenfranchised when no less than the leader of the free world is an example of the success that can be achieved with hard work and dedication.
Stop playing the race card as an excuse for bad behavior – it’s an insult to all hard working African American men to paint them as victims, and diminishes their accomplishments as an anomaly rather than from their capabilities and efforts.
I agree that the current economic situation and lack of jobs is a major contrbutor to our current homeless situation, but if you use the needs of “damaged people” (your term) to defend AGGRESSIVE panhandling, why not defend the homeless to commit other actions where they can obtain resources by intimidation…what about armed robbery? If they don’t physically attack you, does that make it ok?
We can’t condone this type of behavior – we can’t ignore the rights of residents and guests of Atlanta to walk the public streets without being harrassed. And we can’t wait for the problem to “be solved” before we take action.
Bernie
September 6th, 2012
11:37 pm
Susan @ 11:18 pm – One success does not make for millions of those who have been disfranchised for decades. Nor does a few bad eggs make the whole basket rotten.
Your simplistic view is not the answer either. This problem did not just occur in the past few years it has been there for at least 40yrs or so. The main reason why so much attention to it now is because of the Marta train station that brings thousands
more into its interaction. In retrospect the placement of the location of the Marta Train Station was a grave error in judgement. The issue of Pandhandling was altogether ignored and overlooked during the planning process.
Surely due to the location of the existing rail tracks made it more a desirable and cost effective location. This has always been the area of downtown Atlanta that was deemed to be primarily for the African American shopper only in earlier years.
An area where the behavior of panhandling was tolerated and allowed by city and police officials for many years.
Damius
September 7th, 2012
12:09 am
“…particularly African-American men who have never really had a place in this country”
What an inappropriate and unhelpful statement, shame on you Joe Beasley. If I’m not mistaken the African-American gentleman who delivered the final speech @ the convention in Charlotte Thursday evening is the President of the United States.
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
12:19 am
Damius @ 12:09 am – Just because there is one Man of Color in the whitehouse for 4 years in no way negate the hundreds of years of racism,intolerance and bigotry.
Joe is correct and it is a true and accurate statement 100%. Look at this group in a historical context and you could not come up with any other truthful and honest view.
Daphne
September 7th, 2012
12:27 am
No, a “few” bad eggs doesn’t make the whole basket rotten, and it is not race alone that is the drop of poison that spoils the whole glass of wine–huckster appeals and opportunists to the contrary.
Must the sins of the past poison Atlanta’s hope for the future–forever and always? There are more than “a few” hucksters here who would lend such sin-talk projects succor, just so long as they got paid or some recognition.
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
12:51 am
Daphne @ 12:27 am – Truer words have never been spoken…..:)
nelson
September 7th, 2012
6:26 am
Put the feeding stations away from downtown. Have services[support system] away from the urban center. Designate areas where panhandling is allowed. Orlando has had a serious situation and it has defied resolution. As Atlanta already knows, advocates for the homeless are quite determined. I see it as a problem that will always be there. Homeless people like the absence of responsiblity, why not start teaching responsiblity when the children are young instead of waiting for it to be a large unyielding issue.
Aquagirl
September 7th, 2012
7:08 am
As descendants of slaves and sharecroppers, black men have been pushed off the land and into urban areas where they have never had a home.
Black women weren’t pushed off the land? Why aren’t they wandering around cursing, spitting, and threatening people? For that matter, Black men could vote and own property in this country long before I, a white woman could. A Black man has made it to the highest office in the land, beating out a white woman and her “cankles.” Since I’ve been more marginalized, maybe I should start hanging around L5P and disproportionally target Black men for harassment. Lord knows they zoned in on me and other women time after time when I’ve walked through the area. But then nobody would make lame excuses for me like I’m a helpless animal. Maybe I’ll behave like I can control myself, that usually pays off more in the long run.
Susan
September 7th, 2012
8:08 am
Bernie – I respectfully disagree…the problem is indeed very complex, but the SOLUTION is not. Look at other metropolitan areas that have also experinced problems with panhandlers. Which cities have been effective in reducing aggressive panhandling – those that implement more social programs, or those that crack down on the offenders? New York City comes to mind…
I don’t want to diminish the underlying problems. Poverty, mental illness, hopelesness and lack of opportunity DO, in fact, need our attention. But the question here is “what do we do about aggressive panhandling”, and in my opinion it is not accurate to say we can’t reduce that problem until the MAJOR issues are solved. And to say “African American men are victims, so leave them alone and let them continue to harass people” is simply unacceptable.
Out by the Pond
September 7th, 2012
8:33 am
The white panhandler in East Cobb is certainly less aggressive than the panhandler in downtown Atlanta, but there needs and circumstances are similar, and I tart them all the same. I invite them to break bread with me and to have a conservation. I have never been refused by the panhandler, I have had problems getting seated or served. A little respect goes a long way in healing a persons soul.
commoncents
September 7th, 2012
8:39 am
“There are about 50,000 vacant homes and buildings in Atlanta.
The $78 a day it takes to keep a person in jail could be used to provide social services and housing for the homeless”
Great message, Beasley… Don’t try to succeed, don’t try to work and change your life around, and eventually you’ll be given what you want.
P.S.- Becoming a public nuisance/eyesore/criminal will speed the process up.
The only thing you left out is that we should all be taxed more in order to pay for this.
Most Homeless are too Mentally Ill to Panhandle
September 7th, 2012
8:53 am
I seem to remember that during the Mayoral campaign, Kasim Reed made a big distinction between homeless persons and the aggressive panhandlers, saying that these were two different groups of people and that both situations need to be addressed. I am hoping that Mayor Reed will help both groups of people using two different strategies.
The homeless people in Atlanta have a lot of mental illness and it breaks my heart, but as someone else noted above, most of the panhandlers are savvy and aggressive – “reading” people and targeting them accordingly.
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
9:58 am
Aquagirl @ 7:08 am – before you make everyone aware of your uninformed IGNORANCE of African American history and its people. Next time learn your facts before you post! Historically African American women were treated better primarily because the had a “VAGINA”. this is something many southern white male favored in them more than anything in the world. This is why so many of US come in so many different colors and hues. When it came to “THEIR” bedroom they were equal opportunity employers. Affirmative action was not required there at ALL.
RAPE was the order of the DAY little girls,pre-teens,teenagers,young women,middle aged women and even the OLD! it was an official policy practiced by the majority of the slaveowners and whoever else happens to be around. It did not matter! However most would have said it was FORCIBLE RAPE of an entire group of women of color.
Now with that being said The Women were being held at a higher level of esteem. they were “MOST” times treated better. They received fewer beatings and lynchings. and at times even “”PAID” for THEIR SERVICES and not those of the kitchen.
Oh How do I WISH you were ONE of THEM! Your smug remark would be one of contrition,compassion and empathy for sure. None for which you have of anyone YOU perceived Less than YOU!
I will share a bit of wisdom with you.
“The SUN does NOT shine on a DOG’s BUTT, ALWAYS!”
have a NICE DAY!
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
10:35 am
Susan @ 8:08 am – While I do respect and appreciate your opinion and the well intention of it. What you are woefully unaware of and uninformed of is the complex issues that surrounds this very process in downtown ATLANTA.
The area we are speaking of where most of the most aggressive panhandling is done has been long considered historically as “THE NEGRO SIDE OF DOWNTOWN” an area where African Americans were allowed to shop in downtown Atlanta where they would not come contact with the average WHITE shopper of Atlanta. because lets face it…that is something ANY of them did not want to do and that attitude is still pervasive this very day…henceforth was the birth of the our most valued place Shopping at MALL! Where commerce is contained and reasonable control can be asserted if required or requested.
The Downtown five points area of Atlanta was not of any concern to the city of Atlanta and its white residents. they did not shop there or go there. Only White MALES worked close to that area. So whatever, happened there it was the Negroes PROBLEM and not theirs! City Officials were unconcerned until there was some type of ROBBERY of a white shop owner, then they would SPRING into ACTION! with overwhelming Force to find the offender. However, that did not occur to often or with great frequency.
Panhandling was the Norm. it has been allowed and winked at and accepted as a part of the NEGRO behavior by the White citizens of ATLANTA for decades. In fact many prided themselves into giving small amounts of change to a people who were always seem to BEG! for money. they Laughed at them and joked as if they were orphan children. A more Paternalistic view if you will. Many Negroes would sing,dance,perform acrobatic moves to gain attention, play instruments created out of nothing. Ever been to NEW ORLEANS?
So for you to have a better understanding this is the historical aspect of this long and ingrained and widely accepted behavior. Unfortunately it has gotten out of control and has become more of an ACT of Aggression,Demand and hostility. So while this may have become an issue with you. Atlanta has embraced and contributed to the continuance and allowance over the years. it has been part of the Southern Culture since the arrival of THE GOOD SHIP JESUS. you may disagree with me but you cannot avoid the disagreement with this City’s long SORDID history when it comes to the DARKER skinned citizens of ATLANTA.
Now what has contributed and exacerbated this issue was the placement location of the Five points station. unfortunately due to existing infrastructure of the rail tracks flowing East to West going through downtown that was the most logical place to put it.
Unfortunately that placement put this complex issue right in the middle of an already ongoing problem. Instead of a few thousand a week flowing through. we now have easily a million or more more going every week. A larger, wealthier and more affluent target for panhandling. These gentleman are only playing a numbers game.
roughly a small percentage will give everyday and ALL day. Its more akin to feeding the SHARKS! ( I hate using that analogy,please forgive me) however a point is to be made in simplistic terms.
I do hope this information shed some light for your understanding just how complex it is and it will take corporation from ALL of us to correct and changed a learned acceptable behavior. There is Blame to be placed on all sides to this problem, as you
should be able to see. Atlanta is my home…I am 55years old, I lived on the southside and went school on the eastside of Atlanta and rode the cities bus back and forth everyday starting in the first grade. Panhandling was an issue and a problem even then and in many ways just as aggressive but on a smaller level.
MANGLER
September 7th, 2012
10:50 am
Bernie, in each thread that you post comments on, there is one common idea that you bring up ad valorem, and that is you feel blacks are disenfranchised because they are black. It is the one issue that you cannot see past. You write eloquently and make good points, but each time you fall back on the “because we’re black” card, and then you typically shout out against anyone who tries to point that out or suggest that perhaps not everyone blames skin color today like you still do (as I’m sure you will yell at me in a minute). It unfortunately reduces the power of your message in similar ways that hate speech diminishes the quality of whatever it is being used for. Continue to ad to discussions, but man, come on, back off the race card and show us more of what you have in your deck.
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
11:18 am
MANGLER @ 10:50 am – I will share with you a quote from one of all time favorite movies. “THE TRUTH…..You cannot HANDLE The TRUTH” – Jack Nicholson, a few good men.
Part of the problem you are dealing with your internal consternation of this issue and that, sir I cannot help you with. only you are the Captain of that ship. My comments were not so much an opinion but as a laying out of historical facts surrounding a very serious and complex issue we are all dealing with. If it makes you uncomfortable, I suggest you step away and put on your BIG BOY pants and grow a pair. however this does not change or deny the complex community involvement that is based historical fact.
While many like you prefer to stick their heads in the ground like an OSTRICH. I prefer to face my challenges with my head up,eyes open and aware of the history and all that surrounds me. this is so that it will allow me to make the correct decision going forward and make the mistakes of the past . Unlike you who do not want to know with eyes closed hoping someone else will take care of the problem. Sir that is the true difference between you and I.
What suggestions or information do you bring to the table other than what is planned or being said? i will not hold my BREATH waiting for a response.
Susan
September 7th, 2012
12:02 pm
Bernie – Thanks for the historical perspective..it does help illustrate how we have arrived at this point.
As a woman in her 50’s, I too remember earlier days when the segregation in Atlanta was much more prominent. And as the white and black communities start to merge together into areas historically occupied primarily by a single race, there will always be adjustments.
Your description of L5P is as a historically African American area where panhandling was common, and in some ways even accepted (both by the African American community and – due to indifference – by the City of Atlanta). However, our city is becoming more homogenous, and the location of the MARTA station has escalated that process in the L5P area. If we are to progress towards a true sense of equality we must deal with issues not as a white issue or a black issue, but as an issue that affects everyone. And NO ONE (black or white) should be subjected to aggressive panhandling.
I want to clarify, I’m talking about the most aggressive forms of panhandling. It is this nature that makes it so aggregious, and makes downtown Atlanta less attractive to residents, visitors and employers alike. I can’t ascribe a specific number to aggressive panhandlers in Atlanta, but if it truly is 60 or so, should we let our city’s progress be held hostage by this small group?
We must find ways to make our city shine again if we have any hope of rising up, either socially or economically. We can’t make excuses for the agressive panhandlers – their behavior is wrong, and they’re hurting our city as a whole. Ironically, they are probably hurting themselves most of all…if our city doesn’t flourish, we have virtually no hope of having resources to help those in need.
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
12:09 pm
Susan @ 12:02 pm – Thank-you!
and I too am in agreement with you 100% in your comment.
Lame Blame Game
September 7th, 2012
1:49 pm
Bernie, grow up. I have taken the time to chat with panhandlers when they approach me and I always ask them where they are from originally. News flash: they are mostly from smaller towns, and they were given a choice of a bus ticket to Atlanta or jail. Yep, they were the town trouble maker and were shipped off to Atlanta because the small town grew tired of the hassle of dealing with them week after week. All of your historical context about pre-1970’s Atlanta and where people used to shop is just a bunch of diversionary nonsense. Many of these panhandlers are fairly recent arrivals to Atlanta. Atlanta has become the dumping ground for other cities unruly citizens. They are not all African American either. I talked to a white panhandler near The Varsity who was from Eufala, AL. Vietnam Vet, who had obvious mental impairment and his family shipped him to Atlanta. His own family. They could not manage him any longer.
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
1:57 pm
Lame Blame Game @ 1:49 pm – If you like keeping your head where it is all dark and smelly, who am i to suggest a change?
Robyn Jackson
September 7th, 2012
2:14 pm
As a downtown resident since 1994 and daily walker through all parts of downtown I must say that panhandling has gotten worse. It’s not just homeless people – I’ve followed panhandlers to their cars parked in a $20/day parking garage. Several weeks ago I was talking to a drug addict that frequents Broad Street south” “Todd – what’s the drug of choice on Broad Street?” “Crack” “How much is crack these days?” $5 for a single hit says Todd “where do these people get $ to buy crack?” “Panhandling” says Todd…..enough said. If we can control panhandling then maybe we can stop drug addicts on the sidewalks in downtown.
Downtown Resident
September 7th, 2012
3:03 pm
As Councilman Bond has said in numerous interviews- this is about the 60-80 people who are making a living as panhandlers. I have witnessed people getting out of cars and start to ask for money. They know the convention schedule better than the ACVB. If we continue at this pace, we will continue to lose conventions to other cities. What impact is that? Jobs and Taxes.
There are jobs for hardworking individuals. The problem for our aggressive panhandlers is that they want to make their own schedules and play be their rules. If I did that, I would not have a job either.
Grob Hahn
September 7th, 2012
5:00 pm
Trying to blame today’s panhandling problem on slavery is trite and preposterous. Many of the people being hustled for money are professional black people. Unless panhandlers have some mystical way of determining which black people participated in the slave trade centuries ago, there might have to be another way to explain this. Since they are NOT targeting by race when they beg, is this really a racial problem at all? NO, it’s a commercial problem.
Atlanta can’t afford ANY of this kind of crap. We don’t have the extended convention facilities that Orlando built many miles from downtown and heavily patrolled. Downtown Atlanta is perfect for conventions. So perfect people should need a pass just to get into the tube-connected areas. The streets surrounding our convention district MUST be clean and parasite-free. The ONLY way to solve this is with law enforcement first and diversionary programs second. Doing it the other way around will fail. Orlando actually attempted to have areas of sidewalks marked as panhandling-approved zones.
It didn’t matter, the bums and head cases always prowled Orlando day and night. The public library in downtown Orlando always smells like urine and often you find it inside as well. They also can’t control their red light district which is nearly 10 miles long. Why? Because the police are the number 2 priority in dealing with this obvious problem. Atlanta has always had beggars and they have been as aggressive as ever. THAT is the only history that needs to be examined. If it is to stop being our present and future, it’s time to pull some people off of the street and toss them into a cage. THEN we can find out where they really belong. As I understand it, the taxes to pay for such a plan have already been collected!
Grobbbbbbbbbbbbbb
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
6:04 pm
Grob Hahn @ 5:00 pm – Either I am missing something or you have a serious reading and comprehension problem.
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
7:01 pm
Grob Hahn @ 5:00 pm – Actually enclosed connections were at one time considered by the planners of Marta so that the suburbanites could whisk in & out of Atlanta and gain access to the many concentrated areas without having them exposed to the undesirables of the streets of Atlanta. However at that time it would have cost even more for such a convenience. White Flight of downtown Atlanta after 6pm was already a norm even then. Their presence after that time was stark and noticeable.
Retired Vet
September 7th, 2012
7:18 pm
Do you think there enough jail cells to just lock these people up? Fulton county jail already ships prisoners to far reaches of the state due to overcrowding. In case you didn’t know, if the arresting officer does not show up for the arraignment all charges are dropped. Let’s say you are a cop on the beat in downtown. You get off at 12, 1AM. How anxious are you going to be to show up and present your case against a bum the following morning? People who feed pigeons encourage pigeons to keep showing up. In other words, beggars in downtown Atlanta know it is a lucrative trade. I am keenly aware that there is a plethora of help organizations in downtown Atlanta providing food, clothing etc. When have you heard of anyone starving to death on Atlanta streets? Don’t feed the pigeons, and do not feel guilty when you do not. In other words, when you allow them to tug at your heart strings and you reach for your wallet you are adding to the problem. Not meaning to disparrage Hosea’s Feed The Homeless and Hungry, but I often wonder why that organization ask for volunteers when they could encourage the able bodied men they feed on holidays to help prepare, serve and clean up after themselves?
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
8:07 pm
Today I sought some inquires from Older African Americans around Atlanta about this issue. OH BOY! The stories i was told about this City’s rich history and panhandling in downtown Atlanta. At one time it was a thriving and successful business right in five points. With a participation and patronage of many citizens of
Atlanta, BLACK & White, Affluent & Poor.
Many were quite ingenious in their operation and profits generated. A great Tribute to the American spirit of Entrepreneurship. Something that is so Beloved by today’s Republican Party. Make & get profits at the expense of ALL of the others.
Lame Blame Game
September 7th, 2012
9:38 pm
Bernie, please get some perspective. Many of the comments here are thoughtful and articulate, yet your response is grade school level mockery. If you can’t participate in an adult discussion then leave and let the adults weigh in. The 1970’s was four decades ago! I doubt we have panhandlers who can blame events of 40 years ago for their present circumstances. Life is a compilation of one’s decisions – good and bad – over several years. You are what you eat, and you get out of life what you put into it. Panhandlers set their own hours, they don’t have a boss and they don’t have peer performance reviews. It beats working! There are plenty of white panhandlers out there too, so you can drop the racial posturing. This is a nuisance at the least and a safety concern at the worst. We are being burdened with every drunk and drug addict from every small town in a 250 mile radius of Atlanta; we need to put them right back on the bus and have the local cops contact their family to claim them. Nobody hatched from an egg, so the families need to take care of their own.
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
10:03 pm
Lame Blame Game @ 9:38 pm – Your name fits your comments. empty and void of any and all usable contents.
Lame Blame Game
September 7th, 2012
10:37 pm
Bernie, give us your idea of a workable solution. What do you think would fix the problem?
Bernie
September 7th, 2012
11:37 pm
Lame Blame Game – 10:37 pm My friend it is you who needs to Read. Something by your comment says about you, that you have failed to do. Then, You are the one who needs to present a position and be prepared to defend it, if that’s possible.
I know you, have known the likes of you, all of my life so has my many relatives before me. However, in this time you can not strike with the vengeance and anger of your predecessors. The tables have been turned. Your anger and frustrations says you need a new zip code. But you are such a poor little church mouse who is in a bad market and is stuck like a RAT in a cage. surrounded by a mass of people whom
you despise their very being. You my friend are in a very BAD position and place.
We will wait for your presentation…. if… it arrives.