2/26: A central transit vision
The AJC Editorial Board
Present-day struggles make the future difficult to discern. Yet that’s what great, leading-edge cities and states do.
The ability to assemble scattered hints and hunches into a vision for tomorrow, however hazy, sets apart leaders from followers. That collective talent enabled much of the Atlanta metro’s success.
All of which makes intriguing the still-on-the-drawing-board concept of the Multimodal Passenger Terminal (MMPT) proposed for that part of downtown known as the “Gulch.” This valley of concrete and steel was created as Atlanta grew up and out of the area around the Zero Milepost where the railroads began here. It’s no accident that Atlanta was first named Terminus. Two centuries later, that’s still an apt descriptor for this logistics and business capital of the Southeast.
The big, open question for Atlanta and the Gulch plan is what all that means in the 21st century, especially now as we continue to struggle away from a wicked recession. Questions of cost, commitment, feasibility and what exactly will best serve the future needs of Atlantans remain to be fleshed out. They are legitimate topics for further inquiry.
Read the rest of what the AJC Editorial Board has to say, along with commentary by A.J. Robinson, president of Central Atlanta Progress and the Atlanta Downtown Improvement District. Then have your say.
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21 comments Add your comment
Joey
February 25th, 2012
12:32 pm
A commuter rail system with a hub at the new MMPT would be a huge plus. Commuter rail is realitivly cheap, the biggest obstacle is getting permission from the freight companies that own the tracks.
A cool thing about the MMPT is that it was taken off the TIA project list because Mayor Reed said there was private interest that could get it built.
I would also like to see an expansion of MARTA heavy rail rather than new light rail. Also Central Atlanta would greatly benifet from a Completed beltline streetcar network.
Mike
February 25th, 2012
12:52 pm
I agree with Joey… we already have a decent system/technology in place… why not expand upon it? Yes, heavy rail is expensive, but it is faster and carries more people than light rail… also, expanding MARTA heavy rail would allow for seamless connections (instead of having to transfer from heavy rail to light rail)… for example, expand MARTA to Alpharetta, Cumberland/Cobb Galleria, and Norcross… they could also build a heavy rail line along 285 from Norcross/Doraville along 285 to the Dunwoody Station… so if you live in Gwinnett and work in the Perimeter area you can take the train there without having to go in-town.
Light rail is better for inter-city travel, like The Beltline, which will connect most of Atlanta’s neighborhoods together and to MARTA.
We really need to invest in commuter rail for long distance travel… like to Canton, Cartersville, Buford/Gainesville, Athens, Hampton, Peachtree City, Newnan, Conyers, Villa Rica, etc. GDOT already has a commuter rail plan that is collecting dust on a shelf… it’s a good plan and I’m not sure why they this state and metro area can’t get their crap together and see the bigger picture already!
In town longtime
February 25th, 2012
1:18 pm
The community that the “Gulch” served has long ago caught the last train out of downtown. There are no longer shops lining Peachtree and Whitehall streets, crowded midday streets with shoppers and workers. The trolley from King to Aquarium is a waste of valuable transit resources and likely to create another failed project, fulfilling the doomsay prophecies. We need a transit web that serves where the people are NOW not in 1965. East west trains from perimeter to cumberland. Downtown to Buckhead and Sandy Springs. The Belt Line is a marvelous idea and should be hastily built without the ceasless wrangling over the “design component.” Lay down the tracks, put up ticket kiosks and all aboard. We don’t need another trough for architects and “advocates” to suck out consulting dollars. Let the state get involved and ram the train lines to Cobb and Gwinnett — they will NOT cede control to the bungling MARTA board. There is no “Central Atlanta” any more – deal with it and get to work.
dc
February 25th, 2012
2:14 pm
I’d love to see a study of what we could have in the way of roads, buses, trolleys and light rail if the money sunk into the Marta debacle over these many years had been spent there instead……the cost to the taxpayers for marta rail is outrageous. And buses and trolleys can be redeployed at will, whereas heavy rail is stuck in place (thus the stations that cost hundreds of millions and are basically empty whenever the train stops there).
Chip
February 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
I find all this talk about “getting their crap together” and “deal with it” and “ram the train lines to Cobb and Gwinnett” both amusing and disturbing.
There’s a reason why the silly, useless, poorly-run, dangerous, crime infested, money-losing boondoggle known as MARTA doesn’t go to Cobb or Gwinnett. Here it is — are you listening? OK….
WE DON’T WANT IT!
If the fools living in Fulton and Dekalb want to continue paying for such a joke, that’s their problem but don’t bother us with it. Don’t want it, certainly don’t need it.
Oh, and the “Beltline”??? Please. Let’s just have a bonfire and burn a billion dollars in cash and save the headache and damage of construction.
surly jb
February 25th, 2012
8:21 pm
Ok, folks, has anybody actually taken MARTA from, say, Lindbergh to the Airport in late afternoon, or god forbid, at night? I didn’t think so. There are more threatening thugs per square foot on and off that train with absolutely ZERO visible security……….. think you’ll save a little money on the cab fare, and next thing you know you’re dead on the platform, shot 3 times for your iphone by a thrice-convicted felon who was (shock?) out, again. The murderer has yet to appear before a judge or jury…….or be mentioned in this newspaper, since. But the young man is still quite dead.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 25th, 2012
11:32 pm
surly jb
February 25th, 2012
8:21 pm
Chip
February 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
I wholeheartedly agree that MARTA needs to get their sh** together (quality-of-service, SECURITY, frequency of trains, etc) and focus on improving service in the areas of Fulton and DeKalb that it serves before it can even think of expanding outside of those counties to serve Cobb and Gwinnett, which both would be much better served by luxury liner commuter rail service on existing freight rail tracks rather than MARTA heavy rail expansions or light rail construction.
Logical Dude
February 26th, 2012
12:53 am
I’m still amazed at the ones posting about MARTA’s short-comings (crime!!! thugs!!!! we don’t want it!!!).
Welcome to the 21st century folks! A Centralized transit solution is a great idea, and if it’s MARTA, then that is the way to go. Maybe we should rebrand it TANG for Transit Authority North Georgia to make people realize what it really should be. Study after study after study has been done already.
We really don’t need any more studies until realistic funding is generated at the STATE level. Once we – as a STATE – realize that the 21st century is here, and transit funding is necessary to lead the way, then we can do another study to tweak the previous studies.
1) move from a cents per gallon gas tax to a percentage per gallon gas tax. Georgia is collecting the same revenue from gas taxes as the price of gas increases. Most other states charge a percentage, keeping the revenue stream in line with gas costs.
2) ignore those who say MARTA has all thugs and crime. It is comparably safe compared to other transit systems in the country.
3) Fund MARTA (or TANG?) to Mall of Georgia, Cobb County, and Lovejoy. This will help alleviate traffic as Atlanta grows. Plus a spur to Turner Field. (DUH).
4) Until the traffic allows, keep the HOT lanes HOV for two riders instead of three. The lane is underutilized because of this. change it back in the 5 or 10 years when it is forecast that ridership in the lane will have “too many” 2 person cars.
weary cobb commuter
February 26th, 2012
6:57 am
I agree with what logical dude says. We need to fund transportation so the state of Georgia can continue to be prosperous. The economy in Georgia over the last 10 years has not kept up with the nation and this is partially due to lack of leadership in transportation issues. Increase taxes for transportation, fund MARTA so that it can extend to Cobb. Continue rail up to Chattanooga. More HOV lanes with 2 persons until they gain use and build roads where necessary.
Factfinder
February 26th, 2012
8:39 am
Marta has its problems and has all but forfeited any role in the future of mass transit for Greater Atlanta. But let’s drop the racist rants about who rides the trains. It isn’t helpful. Gwinnett has a police department too – so there must be crime out beyond where the tracks end. But it’s hard to single out surburbanites for such talk as it was the same argument used by Druid Hills & Emory liberals to keep Marta from running a badly needed rail spur to their neighborhood.
The BeltLine will prosper and encourage nodes of growth but it needs to be built on the cheap.
Beyond the perimeter, people will use rail – if it serves their needs. No one NEEDS to go to Central Atlanta any more. Just passing through to the airport, the dome, Turner Field, perhaps.
That said, it’s a pipe dream to think there is any hope for regional co-operation on this. The Atlanta political leadership is monomaniacal and the suburban politburo will listen to the rabid voices in their midst.
Same topic for discussion in 2022.
I hate Cobb County
February 26th, 2012
9:58 am
Chip is your typical Georgia idiot. Sigh…
Dumb and Dumber
February 26th, 2012
10:05 am
I ride MARTA every day (for the last 15 years) and I always laugh at those that claim its full of “thugs” and “gangsters”. I’ve never seen a crime, seen anyone robbed or even know anyone who has been robbed. Yes, there are non-white people that ride MARTA, but just because people look different than you does not make them a thug or a gangster.
As for the Gulch, sorry, but GDOT long ago forfeited any leadership on that issue when they left $80 million in federal funds on the table and walked away from the project 12 years ago. GDOT can draw up some awesome rail maps, but they have no intention of ever building anything.
Enjoy your cars suburbanites because there are no transportation changes coming to metro Atlanta this year, next year or 20 years from now. You want to know why? Peak under the Gold Dome and you will find your answer.
Robert Grunwald
February 26th, 2012
11:45 am
This first time i have seen the AJC finally say something about how we need to get our buts in gear to fix our transportion issues. For the last 10 lot talk and no action come around. Will some please tell the all congresman we need this fixed like yesterday. We so far behind that that charloote and Dallas laugh at soon Miami will be head of us. We light and heavy rail to compete in the bussines market. The article by Kevin Riley is so on target it tell the real truth about Atalnata we suck for relocation for corportions. So i challege the our elected officall get off but start working togerther and forget your stupid agendas fix this now
Out by the Pond
February 26th, 2012
11:15 pm
Mass transportation has been on the wrong track from day one. Forcing all riders to pass through the eye of the needle at Five Points (a bow to Dick Rich and Rich’s Department Store) which long ago was located at Five Points makes no since back then and even less since today. Other option that foresaw the development patterns emerging around the perimeter were available but they did not serve the Rich’s flagship store. And then there was that backwards financing plan of the penny sales tax. Until Georgia elects representative that have the intestinal fortitude to pass reasonable and nessecary taxes Georgia wii always be a loser state, 40 to 50 years behind.
Corey
February 27th, 2012
8:02 am
If you have nothing to contribute to the discussion regarding transportation woes in the region but your hated of MARTA you are wasting your time. We know that already. We already know you dislike having to share public spaces, to include rail cars, with poor and poorly educated blacks. You know Atlanta has a sizeable portion of poor and poorly educated blacks. We know and you know that you would love to have access to transit free of those people. That will never happen in metro Atlanta. Do yourself a favor. Move to Idaho, Nebraska or Iowa already.
Chip
February 27th, 2012
9:07 am
The hilarious underlying irony here is that the people screaming for a regional public transportation system because traffic is imnpeding growth… often turn out to be the same people who scream about “sprawl” and “rampant growth.”
I HATE COBB COUNTY: Boy, it sure hurts when we untermenschens (that’s German for “subhumans”) don’t just shut up and agree with you, doesn’t it? I know that dissent is so annoying to the elite such as yourself, but too bad. No one cares. Call me what names you will, but as anyone on this board can see… I posted a series of points and made my case. You adopted a label based on hate, called me a name, and ran away. THAT is why normal people in this country no longer care what liberals think… you’re hypocritical cowards who spout off snotty comments and run.
By the way, if you are so distressed by all of us Georgia citizens who you consider to be idiots, why do you lower yourself to living among us? Surely someone of your noble elite brilliance should be in NYC or Boston? Or are you just a Big City Wannabe, stuck in the silly provincial joke known as Atlanta?
To at least two others of you who implied my comments are racist: exactly where in my post did you see any reference to skin color? The answer is that you did not, you simply assumed that I am a racist because I oppose a useless government program that has proven itself to be a failure, just because that program operates in a minority-dominated area. Anyone who thinks crime is not a problem on MARTA is a silly fool in denial… and here’s a clue for you: a mugging victim doesn’t care if the person trying to kill him for the $40 in his wallet is white, black, brown, yellow, red, green, or purple… the victim doesn’t want to be killed. Skin color is irrelevant in a violent crime.
Yet you good liberals just know all about us out in the suburbs, don’t you? To quote JB Stoner… “They (we suburbanites) ain’t like us” (you noble, superior, enlightened liberals.)
Of course some of you Lefties are going to scream “racism” at the drop of a hat. Normal people expect you to do that because you’ve been so well-trained by the dominant pop culture. (The last thing we expect you to do is stay calm and think in a rational manner.) But what I DO find disturbing is the attitude of some posters who think the government should just do what it wants, and to hell with the will of the taxpayers and the citizens who would be affected by the grand schemes of the central planners. Some of you don’t seem to understand: the concept of government serving the people doesn’t mean the governemnt takes money from the majority to run programs roughshod over that majority in order to please a small percentage of the population screaming for soom freebie or subsidized service… the idea is the government serves the majority of taxpaying citizens, following the lead of those citizens. THAT is why we don’t have a regional public transportation system… so, to repeat my previous post… NO ONE WANTS IT!
I don’t usually post on these boards because I long ago realized the utter total truth of an ald saying… “Never try to teach a pig to sing or a liberal to think. It wastes your time and just annoys them.”
Miss Priss!
February 27th, 2012
9:21 am
Ease traffic by paying people to leave the Atlanta area.
WeNeedAlternatives
February 27th, 2012
9:39 am
I love it when people like ‘Chip’ provide such inspiring, entertaining satire, just as if his head was really stuck, giving his backside an incurable curvature.
The world is changing, not static. If we don’t do anything about improving our transportation system, the rest of the world will pass us by – and the outer counties will wither along with the city. (There are plenty of examples of this around the country and world.)
As for MARTA safety: maybe some of the writers need to actually ride it for a change. You shouldn’t have much money left in you wallets after paying for your gasoline anyway. Yes, I have ridden it at night, and during the day – not bad. It is safe and reliable, but could use a serious pass with a pressure washer!
I’m just glad that there are some people that do actually think we need to think of the future, creating grand plans, and far reaching projects, instead of wondering how things affect me, me, me….
bu2
February 27th, 2012
11:29 am
The beltline light rail is nothing BUT a trough for engineers, advocates and real estate developers. When they figured out the circular design they were planning for decades wouldn’t have any riders they changed it just before TSLOST project selection to take out lanes from already overburdened east-west streets. This Gulch project is even worse. It is a transportation node with NO transportation. They have no idea how it will ultimately be used. None of the modes connect to it. Its nothing other than, once again, taking scarce transportation dollars and giving it to developers.
MARTA probably could have built the Doraville extension or either of the east-west line extensions with all the money they have spent on consultants and staff on projects they have never done. Its ridiculous all the studies they have done over the last 15-20 years with no results.
Dumb and Dumber
February 27th, 2012
12:53 pm
Let me see, MARTA accounts for some 300,000 to 400,000 trips per day.
Yep, that sounds totally useless. Lets toss the whole rail system into the dumpster just because Cobb Countians don’t like it.
Michael Hammock
February 28th, 2012
12:46 pm
Utilizing underutilized real estate in the city of Atlanta will benefit it, the state and the region. Further, commercial development naturally follows infrastructure improvements and brings other economic benefits along for the ride. A coherent, viable, flexible transportation plan is vital for the future of the ATL. As your editorial board opined, slower-than-a-crawl car traffic creates a major obstacle to further development and expansion. When, not if, alternative forms of transportation are developed, an efficient central hub becomes critical. People and business will benefit. The mayor is a visionary because he understands that private interests want this, so private interests should ante up. The private sector allocates resources more efficiently, so let them at it. The city should have input, but private interests should take the lead. Let’s hope such a plan, with a grand central hub, comes together.