Sunday issue: Transportation sales-tax project list
The AJC Editorial Board writes: The $6.14 billion in regional road and transit projects, while sorely needed, are far from bold. And the one exception, the Beltline, may be ill-advised. Is this really the best metro Atlanta can do?
We would have rather seen the Beltline funding — or at least most of it — go toward a project that would efficiently transport more people longer distances between homes and job centers.
Bob Ross, co-founder of the Fayette County Issues Tea Party, writes that the transit money would have been spent better elsewhere.
But Bucky Johnson, Norcross mayor and chairman of the Atlanta Regional Transportation Roundtable, believes that an historic moment could have a lasting impact.
What do you think about the project list?
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31 comments Add your comment
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 21st, 2011
8:39 pm
I’m not necessarily that crazy about the way that the list is setup and I think that there is a much better way that the money can be targeted, but seeing as though there has been almost no leadership from the state on transportation planning whatsoever during a period where the Atlanta Region’s population increased by more than two million residents and that this is the first time that there has been a regional approach to transportation planning ever seriously discussed, it’s no surprise that the funding may not be targeted at the exact right places that it needs to be targeted at.
Despite my reservations about where the funding on the list is being aimed at (Uh, has anyone in this freeway-overdependent town ever heard of COMMUTER RAIL?) and my objections, I agree that it this town DESPERATELY needs to demonstrate a willingness to make LONG-OVERDUE investments in its undersized and lagging transportation infrastructure to stay economically viable in the 21st Century.
But this long-overdue investment should only be the FIRST STEP in bringing our struggling and overstressed transportation infrastructure out of the 1980’s and into modern times.
The T-SPLOST is by no means is an endpoint, but should be approached as a start of a much-needed and long-overdue conversation about long-neglected infrastructure of all types in this fast-growing state, ESPECIALLY, transportation, water and education.
Even if the T-SPLOST does not pass, and there’s a strong possibility at this point that it will not, this should be the beginning of a long and neverending conversation about infrastructure investment as tax increases are not the only way to make necessary investments in infrastructure.
yuzeyurbrane
October 21st, 2011
8:52 pm
There are a lot of good things. But there is also a lot of crap buried in the details.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 21st, 2011
11:32 pm
With the Atlanta Region and the State of Georgia’s infamous lack of investment in transportation infrastructure over the past couple of decades, the advent of even a flawed T-SPLOST list and referendum looms large for this region and state.
Though the sentiment for many quarters, especially in the I-85 Northeast Metro Corridor anchored by the state’s second most populous county, Gwinnett, is that the recent bungled implementation of High Occupancy Toll lanes (HOT lanes) on Interstate 85 through Gwinnett and the resulting massive traffic jams have hurt support for the T-SPLOST referendum SEVERELY as taxpayers are not willing to vote themselves a tax increase if they think that officials are going to spend that money on projects that will make their commutes LONGER.
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11:35 pm
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Road Scholar
October 22nd, 2011
6:02 am
Will:”I’m not necessarily that crazy about the way that the list is setup and I think that there is a much better way that the money can be targeted, but seeing as though there has been almost no leadership from the state on transportation planning whatsoever during a period where the Atlanta Region’s population increased by more than two million residents and that this is the first time that there has been a regional approach to transportation planning ever seriously discussed, it’s no surprise that the funding may not be targeted at the exact right places that it needs to be targeted at.”
That is one long sentence…a mouthful! But you state that you’re not wild about how/what the project list
has and the lack of alledged planning by GDOT. First, ARC (Atlanta Regional Commission) is the agency responsible for transportation planning for the Atlanta Region. Secondly the original broad list of projects were developed by ARC and submitted to GDOT to ensure they met the criteria agreed for selection: addressing congestion. Then the list was culled down based on the return on investment of addressing congestion. yes then politics took over to develop the final list. But how could politics not be a factor in the project list?
You are also reminded that many forums were conducted to allow the public to weigh in on desired /undesired projects.Unfortunately, the public has always had problems seeing the future design, impact, and benefit of each project and how they relate to each other. Planning meetings are not as “sexy” as design PM since no lines are on a map to understand the scope with alledged impacts.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 22nd, 2011
7:15 am
Road Scholar
October 22nd, 2011
6:02 am
It’s not the alleged lack of planning by GDOT that is the problem, it’s that lack of vision, leadership and planning from the STATE that “manages” GDOT that is the problem.
All of GDOT’s shortcomings are a direct result of the state government that has nearly mismanaged them into the ground with the legislative interference and blatant overpoliticization of the agency to the point of almost being completely ineffective.
Another problem with this process, except for a last-minute allocation of funds towards the long-proposed Atlanta-Macon line, has been the nearly total lack of attention to commuter rail as an alternative to (and as a means to relieve) the severely-congested freeway system. Commuter rail seems to be the 800-pound Elephant in the room that no one is talking about…a solution that should be talked about INTENSELY and acted on by the region and the state, soon, VERY SOON.
Though, I do admire the vision and ambition of such projects as the Beltline (there are linear parks in other major US and world cities that inspire it, but nothing else quite comes close to the breath and depth of its vision, very important investment for the city IMHO) and the Peachtree Streetcar (another very important investment in the city’s future).
Despite my concerns, the TSPLOST is, at the very least, a long-overdue start and is better than nothing and is MUCH better than the alternative which is Detroit-style DECLINE.
Joey
October 22nd, 2011
8:24 am
the beltline is the single most important project in the region.And here is why.
First, let me point out the flaws in this article. The beltline does move people between homes and job centers. It has direct connections to both downtown midtown and current marta rail stations. And there are plenty of homes along the corridor, in fact the beltline corridor may just be the most densly populated area in the entire southeastern united states.
It will help traffic by taking many of the people along the corridor out of there cars.
Secondly Jobs, baby boomers are heading towards retirement. In order for jobs to stay in the metro region there needs to be a healthy dose of young proffesionals ready to take there place. While the boomers enjoyed the suburban life style, most young profesionals do not. Most in the new generation want to live in cities with a high quality of life. And you can’t have a high wuality of life without good transit options. The beltine offers those transit options and also improves the quality of the core of the city, and infact the core of the state.Without the better options, young proffesionals will go elswhere and so will jobs and by then it coud be to late to catch up.
Without the beltline, we become Detriot.
RustyHinges
October 22nd, 2011
12:49 pm
I will not support this tax unless:
* Language is written in the referendum stating that it will uncategorically END in 10 years with no way of weaseling around it like the GA 400 toll fee.
* Transparent purchasing and acquisition policies are in place with a projects neutral oversight committee appointed to guarantee monies are wisely and correctly spent. With 6 BILLION DOLLARS up for grabs – yes, grabs – the potential for cronyism, fraud and mismanagement will be enormous.
RustyHinges
October 22nd, 2011
12:52 pm
WILL THE LAST DEMOCRAT
October 22nd, 2011
7:15 am
You lose all credibility with the remark that the Peachtree Streetcar is “another very important investment in the city’s future.” What do you think MARTA buses are for? The Streetcar project is a perfect example of wasting taxpayer money.
larry.333
October 22nd, 2011
1:40 pm
PASS E VERIFY !!!
SO THE JOBS ARE A BENEFIT FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS AND KIDS!!!
RCL
October 22nd, 2011
5:05 pm
The HEART of the Metropolitan Area is Atlanta. A vital Central City is important to the Region as a whole. The Beltline and the Peachtree Stret Car are mass transit for moving people around in a congested City.
The traffic conjestion is one of the most negative factors and had caused surrounding Cities to obtain jobs, while the Atlanta Region has stagnated and has produced very few jobs. Lets learn from our European friends, vital cities attract capital, and jobs.
Its time for a reeducation of the public in a positive way about mass transit and economic development. The State of Georgia is doing well with International Offices, it needs to do better with local public education about what makes our Primary Economic and Urban Center work and become vital.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 22nd, 2011
8:39 pm
RustyHinges
October 22nd, 2011
12:52 pm
WILL THE LAST DEMOCRAT
October 22nd, 2011
7:15 am
“You lose all credibility with the remark that the Peachtree Streetcar is “another very important investment in the city’s future.” What do you think MARTA buses are for? The Streetcar project is a perfect example of wasting taxpayer money.”
The Peachtree Streetcar is a very important investment in the City of Atlanta’s future because it will inspire a level of street level investment present in major world cities that does not currently exist in Atlanta which aspires to be one of the world’s great cities.
If a city like Atlanta wants to be a great world city then it must have an active streetlife with lots of activity going on in its urban neighborhoods and lots of on-street social interaction, the kind that is seen in cities like New York, San Francisco, Paris, London, etc.
I have objections with the way that an initiative like the streetcar is being funded with tax dollars as I think that it could probably be better funded with bonds paid back over a period of 20-40 years like I think that all rail implementations, upgrades and expansions could be.
This TSPLOST is FAR from perfect, but I guess I’ll take what I can get, seeing as this region and state has gotten virtually nothing in the past 20 or so years since the “Freeing the Freeways” project.
IMHO, this TSPLOST tries to be too many things with quality-of-life investments like the Beltline and the Streetcar and maybe slightly off-target investments like light rail extensions in Cobb and Gwinnett mixed in with road investments and the recent commuter rail investments that are purely long-overdue investments in transportation infrastructure that keep people moving.
But make no mistake, the Beltline and the Peachtree Streetcar are important investments in the city’s future quality-of-life and vibrancy even if those investments could be better made and this TSPLOST could and should be more focused on helping improve mobility in the here-and-now.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
October 23rd, 2011
6:48 am
@ RustyHinges October 22nd, 2011 12:52 pm
Most people prefer rail transit over bus transit, especially local bus transit. Tourist and folks that normally wouldn’t ride transit will ride such things as a streetcar and subways. This will prompt more people to walk in our city and will also promote business development and economic development as a whole. More people out means more people spending and more jobs. That will make for a vibrant Atlanta.
Ga Values
October 23rd, 2011
6:59 am
How much will MARTA waste on mismanagement & corruption? Will Mayor Reed split the kick backs from the WASTE/belt line with the Jackson family or keep it all for himself? The TSPLOSH simply has too much waste for me.
A reader
October 23rd, 2011
11:33 am
I will vote NO to TSPLOST for one simple reason: The Beltline. The Beltline takes 10% of the budget. It is NOT a regional project, it is a very local project. And its primary purpose is economic growth, not transit.
Angus
October 23rd, 2011
12:39 pm
I’m not sure Atlantans can be convinced to vote yes and pay 1% for TSPLOST and 1% for MARTA.
I am sure that if the Beltline were removed from the list, the COA will overwhelmingly vote no.
Toby
October 23rd, 2011
1:47 pm
The infrastructure of the US at large is lacking & it should get more public funding.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 23rd, 2011
4:27 pm
Ga Values
October 23rd, 2011
6:59 am
“How much will MARTA waste on mismanagement & corruption? Will Mayor Reed split the kick backs from the WASTE/belt line with the Jackson family or keep it all for himself? The TSPLOSH simply has too much waste for me.”
VERY valid concerns given the history of mismanagement & corruption in Atlanta city government and within the management structure of MARTA and especially with the City of Atlanta seeming to be the catbird seat in guiding this thing.
Though there are actively ongoing discussions by the state to overhaul transit agency that we currently know as MARTA into more of a regional agency that serves more of the five-county core of the metro area by the end of the decade.
After years of blatant neglect, ignorance and no leadership, it appears that the state has finally been embarrassed into taking more of an active role in transportation planning and management in the Atlanta Region.
Frank
October 23rd, 2011
6:38 pm
There are well over a hundred special interest exemptions that apply to retail sales in Georgia.
These exemptions are examples of state sponsored economic discrimination. How can Georgia’s sales tax system that favors one merchant and his customers over another merchant and his customers be anything other than “state sponsored economic discrimination”?
—–ABOLISH ALL EXEMPTIONS AND LOWER THE SALES TAX RATE ACCORDINGLY—–
Then come back and ask me to consider voting to increase the rate for transportation.
seabeau
October 24th, 2011
7:06 am
We are facing another dry winter,our lake levels continue to drop, Alanta does not need additional growth she needs to properly manage the existing infrastructure she now has. Alanta needs additional water containment structures. Not new highways!!
zeke
October 24th, 2011
9:17 am
Here is what I think of this socialist agenda list of projects, VOTE NO!!!
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
October 24th, 2011
9:47 am
@ A reader October 23rd, 2011 11:33 am
I think not voting for something that will obviously benefit the region because of ONE project is just stupid and holds the entire region back.
Please explain how the Beltline isn’t a regional project. Doesn’t the entire region benefit from the success of Atlanta? Yes! Does this project provide a rail system for the inner core of Atlanta? Yes! Isn’t economic development what we want for the city of Atlanta? Yes! Doesn’t dense development, like the Beltline will spur, what we want to get people walking and utilizing transit? Yes!
Why don’t you look at how many ROAD projects are just in that county. Most of them are. How are they benefiting the ENTIRE region? They don’t! They benefit the people of that county that use them but want the entire region to pay for them. Most of the people using them are probably trying to drive to Atlanta in the first place!
People like you and Ga Values hold the Atlanta region back. This is not 1950. Lets move forward and stop holding Atlanta and the region back from being a world class area.
sirwinston1941
October 24th, 2011
9:48 am
Far from the truth is the way highway funding is being used; rather than widening if required; completed roads and highway that should be;sending mountain of traffic downtown in the “Grady Curve” rather than around the city, keeping 400 open; using driver funds instead of closing the toll, fast lanes are no different; so we come to say that this poor, poor planning on the transporation administration part for continuing to do the same things, charge and charge again…and traffic for this city is getting no where but a lot of talk. I agree, VOTE NO! It takes a real transportation engineer to really get traffic and highways here in Georgia right; we continue to see and do the sames old things, “beltline” where is it going; street rails and trolley cars, for what, narrow streets already in Atlanta make it hard to drive and park forcing people to do stupid parking and using unsafe parking stall at those buildings and yet, we call this Atlanta a city who can’t hate! I think good planning and good road-work with good engineering around the city instead of traffic continuing to go right back into the city will solve a lot of congestion here in Atlanta. Nobody is seeing the real truth about Atlanta’s highways and byways. Instead, they are continuing to bring all traffic, parking, events back int the city thinking it will raise a lot of revenue. It won’t!
Sallie
October 24th, 2011
9:58 am
If TSPLOST were focused on real transportation improvements and not on special interest, ideology driven projects like the beltline or light rail from Cumberland to the Arts center I would vote for it. As it stands, too much of the money is going to address needs other than traffic. I think we could have done much better than the list of projects we have.
I will vote no.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
October 24th, 2011
10:07 am
For all those voting no I want to here what you would have added or what projects you would have on your list. What would you have voted yes for?
Burke Sisco
October 24th, 2011
3:45 pm
Shame on these people who are trying to divert money away from a world class alternative transportation project like the BeltLine to building and widening roads. We’ve already seen where that leads. They should be made to run through a belt line of the whuppin’ kind.
Ga Values
October 24th, 2011
4:20 pm
Bryan — MARTA supporter
October 24th, 2011
9:47 am
If you had been in the 1950’s Atlanta, you would like to go back. I know we can’t go back but we could replace the current MARTA “management” team with competent managers. The Wasteline is just a mtheod of bailing out the politically connected developers and making the Jackson family richer.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 24th, 2011
5:18 pm
I personally like the concept of the Beltline, but it probably should be funded either through a local SPLOST referendum in the City of Atlanta, since it is an economic redevelopment project for and within the City of Atlanta or through bonds sold to investors and paid back over a period of 20-40 years.
Seeing as how important of an economic redevelopment project it is to the City of Atlanta, either a SPLOST or using bonds to pay for it should be an easy sell.
The way that the Beltline and some of the economic development projects are being funded with this regional TSPLOST is the problem. The TSPLOST tries to pay for both local economic development projects and regional congestion relief projects.
In other words, the TSPLOST tries to do too much by funding local economic development projects like the Beltline and the supposed light rail lines from the Arts Center MARTA Station to Cumberland and from the Doraville/future Norcross MARTA Station to the Gwinnett Civic Center and local and regional congestion relief projects like road widenings and road modifications like the I-285/GA 400 and I-285/I-20 West interchanges.
This TSPLOST might be more effective if the funds were aimed much more at improving our lagging and undersized surface road network throughout the region while taking the one percent of the state gas tax that currently goes into the state’s General Fund and diverting it to become a base level of funding for transit improvements by using it as collateral for transit projects constructed with bonds and paid back with fares over a period of 20-40 years.
Bonds paid back with fares over a period of 20-40 years should be the primary method of funding transit upgrades from well thought-out and well-placed extensions to what is currently known as MARTA to bus service and commuter rail.
Financing transit upgrades through bonds can get the projects constructed and up and online much quicker than being dependent solely upon politically-unpopular sales tax increases.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 24th, 2011
5:45 pm
Or even better, make the TSPLOST a referendum to fund mostly transit upgrades in more densely-populated and more urban Fulton and DeKalb Counties and make the TSPLOST a referendum to fund mostly (but not all) road upgrades in the rest of the region outside of Fulton and DeKalb Counties.
I know that lots of people, especially hardcore transit advocates will say that dividing up the TSPLOST multiple ways between different jurisdictions will only help to build more roads that we don’t need.
But that’s necessarily true as the Atlanta Region’s road network is in just as severe a need of upgrading as our increasingly severely outmoded transit network.
Despite being an auto-dominated region, Metro Atlanta has a worse surface road network than the Washington DC Metro area, which is a transit-heavy, and by most accounts, a transit-dependent region.
Georgia’s failure to invest in both its transit network and surface road network during a period of extreme population growth over the last 20 years has made Atlanta extremely overdependent on a freeway system that for all intents and purposes was designed to handle the heavy vehicular traffic of a metro region with a population of three million NOT a metro region with a population of SIX MILLION.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
October 26th, 2011
1:21 pm
@ Ga Values October 24th, 2011 4:20 pm
As a young black male I think I’ll pass going back to the 1950’s Atlanta.
I think Dr. Scott is doing a great job and I think overall MARTA managers have done great with limited resourses. Were there some blunders (Nathaniel Ford’s era)? Yeah,but hasn’t MARTA continued to grow and expand without a true stable funding source, up until the recent reccesion? Yes! All while not raising fairs for a number of years at the turn of the century. If MARTA would have raised fares back in the mid 2000s instead of doing what everyone wanted, which was keep fares the same MARTA may not have had to come with the threat of cutting services every year. If MARTA got assistance from the region that uses it instead of Fulton/Dekalb paying for for the entire region there would be MORE MARTA! Where is the help from the state? The same state that helps with CCT, GCT, and especially Xpress.
At this point I say to Fulton/Dekalb let’s not pay the additional penny to help fund other projects in counties that don’t know the benefit of supporting the inner core. Let’s do our own penny tax and split it 50/50 with MARTA and roads. That would be 1/2 cent for roads and 1 1/2 cent for MARTA, just within Fulton/Dekalb. If the idiots of Cobb and Gwinnett want to be stuck in the past and in traffic let them. Clayton, do a BINDING vote for MARTA. Yeah it’s going to be more out of your pocket but look what you’ll get with a 2 penny tax. Improved roads in the county and a rail line (or 2) with good bus service withing the county. That’s going to bring more jobs and development to your county, while helping with traffic relief. Counties like Fayette don’t even consider being a part of metro Atlanta. I know Cobb and Gwinnett will eventually get on but the people out there please stay there. Don’t come into Atlanta at all!
Also, the SRTA needs to set up toll roads on all the interstates that come into Fulton/Dekalb and let that money be used for additional revenue for roads and transit within F/D!
Ted
October 28th, 2011
1:59 pm
Cobb County’s lack of vision in only wanting to invest in road improvements is off target. A planned commuter rail system to Cumberland is also off target. A commuter rail system to the Town Center area, East Cobb, and West Cobb County will reduce the public’s dependency on gasoline when traveling through the county. An article in the AJC talks about increasing the diversity of Kennesaw State University. A mass transit system will remove barriers, increase the likelihood of the regional population seeking a quality education, and better serve the citizens of the metro area. Cobb County’s investment in a commuter rail system will improve the quality of life and reduce the need for gasoline based transit.