10/20: Should Peachtree Corners become a city?
Moderated by Rick Badie
Cities are popping up across metro Atlanta: Johns Creek, Sandy Springs — where next? A report will help determine whether Brookhaven should pursue cityhood.
Residents of Peachtree Corners go to the polls Nov. 8 to decide whether to become Gwinnett County’s 16th town. Today, we offer two views — one that favors incorporation of that community and one that doesn’t.
What do you think?
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48 comments Add your comment
Dayshown
October 21st, 2011
10:40 am
Gwinnett already has 15 municipalities, do we really need one more? With annexations at some point all these burgs will literally grow together and the unincorporated county will cease to exist. What’s worst each little city means another new layer of government – public works, police etc., and even more taxes.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 21st, 2011
10:37 am
Aquagirl
October 21st, 2011
7:40 am
“If you live in an area with 800,000 people and expect the benefits of a small town of 34,000, that is indeed selfish.”
You mean just like if you live in a metropolitan region of six million people and expect the benefits of a county of 800,000 by living in Gwinnett or a small town of 11,000 by living in the incorporated city of Norcross which is right next door to P’tree Corners?
“You can’t have both—-unless you manipulate the system, which is what this little suburb is doing. Gwinnette has grown. If people there don’t like living with 800,000 neighbors, MOVE.”
Oh, you mean the same way that Gwinnett County has manipulated the system over the years by building endless residential, commercial and industrial overdevelopment with no regard whatsoever on the (negative) impact that said overdevelopment would have on the region’s already overstressed and undersized transportation infrastructure?
Every city, town and county outside of the incorporated City of Atlanta attempts to have it “both [ways]” by NOT wanting to pay into a regional transportation network and NOT wanting to be affiliated with the City of Atlanta locally yet when someone from the 10-county area goes on the road to visit another city, what’s the first thing they say when asked where they are from? ATLANTA!
Every the City of Atlanta and the State of Georgia has had it both ways by depending on Federally-funded and built Lakes Allatoona and Lanier and NOT wanting to PAY to build their own network of locally funded and controlled lakes and reservoirs for water supply and flood control until they absolutely had no choice.
Every muncipality plays that game, every where you cited in DeKalb, DeKalb County plays that game, although nowhere near to the extent that Clayton and ESPECIALLY Cobb and Gwinnett have played that game, claiming to apart of Atlanta while having their own “little fiefdom” the size of a county so that they can control and have access to tax revenues and public dollars collected inside of those counties, though at least DeKalb PAYS for MARTA and Grady, unlike Clayton, Cobb, Gwinnnett and the other counties in the region.
Aquagirl
October 21st, 2011
10:24 am
a county government that has been INFAMOUS for overbuilding and overdevelopment in the last three decades
I have little sympathy for people who buy in an area because of development, then turn around and complain because that development bites them in the @$$.
Gwinnett’s overdevelopment has bitten me too, and unlike the merry band of secessionists in Peachtree Corners, I have never had a voice on that development. I live in DeKalb, where literally hundreds of thousands of Gwinnett commuters clog the (bleep) out of our streets. See, I understand what happens when a local government decides they want to benefit themselves at the expense of surrounding communities. Peachtree Corners is Gwinnett all over again.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 21st, 2011
10:08 am
Aquagirl
October 21st, 2011
7:40 am
“What happens when a small municipality can zone for re-development and benefit from increased tax base, yet the costs are borne equally by those outside? If Peachtree Corners wants to zone for denser housing, more students will show up at the local County schools. That cost must be paid by all County residents, who have no say in the development and added tax burden.”
It’s too late for that, sweetheart, as all of Peachtree Corners is COMPLETELY built-out. All of the denser housing and multi-family developments that are going to be built in the neighborhood have already been built and long ago overcrowded the schools. Heck, a new building for Norcross High School had to be built in 2001 after it out grew the old complex and now the NEW building has exceeded capacity and has to use trailers to support the increasing enrollment and there is no place on the complex to build any new classrooms onto the school, nor is there anyplace in that part of the county to build a new high school because most of Gwinnett is built completely out from the years of overdevelopment permitted and ENCOURAGED by a county government full of land spectulators.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 21st, 2011
9:56 am
“The county must balance development against the costs. As an example, look at the local roads when a new McMansion development is built.”
You know that we’re talking about Gwinnett where for many years the county commission was chaired by actual LAND DEVELOPERS whose only cost benefit analysis was how much money they could personally fill theirs and their friends’ pockets with off of a development, impact on traffic and schools be damned. We’re talking about a county that has continued to permit the virtually endless building of strip malls to continue even though there’s no businesses to fill them, a county government that has been INFAMOUS for overbuilding and overdevelopment in the last three decades and won’t hesitate to fill the roads and the schools to overcapacity as long as they can personally make a healthy profit or get a healthy campaign contribution or even a sizable kickback out of it.
Aquagirl
October 21st, 2011
7:40 am
because the residents will still be PAYING the county to deal with those services just as before.
Again, you miss the entire point: The ELECTED OFFICIALS will not have to deal with the hassle of providing those services. They get all of the perks of holding office and none of the mess.
The county must balance development against the costs. As an example, look at the local roads when a new McMansion development is built. Big potholes will appear where heavy equipment is used. You can see this on North Druid Hills near Willivee. The entire stretch of road has been re-paved in front of brand new ginormous houses.
What happens when a small municipality can zone for re-development and benefit from increased tax base, yet the costs are borne equally by those outside? If Peachtree Corners wants to zone for denser housing, more students will show up at the local County schools. That cost must be paid by all County residents, who have no say in the development and added tax burden.
If you live in an area with 800,000 people and expect the benefits of a small town of 34,000, that is indeed selfish. You can’t have both—-unless you manipulate the system, which is what this little suburb is doing. Gwinnette has grown. If people there don’t like living with 800,000 neighbors, MOVE.
Residents outside these little fiefdoms should be aware of why they exist—people inside them want the benefits of a large urban area but run their own neighborhood as they please, and if it causes problems outside their locality, they don’t care. NO FREE RIDES.
Frankly I think you have a personal stake in Peachtree Corners and are intentionally playing dumb. I’m sure you’ll deny this but there is no other reason to deny these points.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 21st, 2011
2:24 am
Aquagirl
October 20th, 2011
11:25 pm
Each city in Gwinnett, except Buford which has its own city school district, also PAYS to receive public school services even though they are incorporated.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 21st, 2011
2:20 am
“Peachtree Corners wants power where it matters: taking more desirable areas for their tax base.”
But the neighboring City of Norcross is doing the same thing, taking more desirable areas for their own tax base from the P’tree Corners neighborhood association and Gwinnett County.
“Again, they get the good stuff (control of resources) without mundane pain-in-the-arse things like sewer, potholes, and the like.”
But it’s not like the a new “city-light/township” would be shirking any responsibility because the residents will still be PAYING the county to deal with those services just as before.
Now if the residents of P’tree Corners became a city and had found some way to get county services like police, fire, sewer and street maintenance without payment then one could say that the city-light/township of P’tree Corners was shirking their responsibility, but they would still PAY the county to take care of those “mundane pain-in-the-arse things” just like other cities in Gwinnett like Sugar Hill, Rest Haven and Grayson PAY Gwinnett County to provide police protection to varying degrees since they don’t have full-time police departments, if any at all.
Aquagirl
October 20th, 2011
11:25 pm
in reference to some in P’tree Corners wanting to have full control over zoning, land use and code enforcement issues instead of letting the county commission have full control over them
That’s EXACTLY my point. The County is obligated to everyone in the County. Peachtree Corners will be looking out for themselves as # 1, and if it negatively affects other parts of the County, too bad. The Metro area is a mess because we have multiple, overlapping local governments. All have politicians who get re-elected by placing their residents needs ahead of others when there is a conflict.
And really, your entire 10:36 is simply a re-wording of my post: Peachtree Corners wants power where it matters: taking more desirable areas for their tax base. That’s a sheetload of power for 1 mill. If you want the power, you should pay for it in all areas. These people want to cherry-pick.
Also, if you think the people leading this are motivated by deep commitment to the democratic process, I have a bridge to sell you. Who do you think will jump right into those government seats and control this newly created power? Again, they get the good stuff (control of resources) without mundane pain-in-the-arse things like sewer, potholes, and the like. What politician wouldn’t want that deal?
Like I said, sweeeet…..for a small group. Everyone else gets screwed. Frankly we get enough of that from government. Let’s not create a new pig trough.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
October 20th, 2011
11:08 pm
Aquagirl
October 20th, 2011
9:51 pm
“Sectioning off these little pieces of the metro area creates a problem for everyone. This breakaway of suburban areas which grew up BECAUSE of neighboring cities is indeed selfish. Those people would not be there without the area around them, yet they want to zone for their own local use.”
People wanting to control land use and zoning decisions within their own neighborhood so that they can more easily hold their incorporated town or small city officials accountable for the decisions they make than they can commissioners in a county of 800,000 people is not selfish, just a desire by some to have a smaller unit of government that is closer to them on a personal level.
And it’s not like people in Gwinnett County would have no reason to want to have more control over zoning, land use, code enforcement and garbage pick-up after years and years of the Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners having a notoriously close and intimate relationship with land developers never meeting a building permit they didn’t like, being in on numerous questionable land deals over the years, cutting back code enforcement to almos being non-existent and their very messy and unpopular overhaul of trash service to the county.
Even when areas incorporate into cities like they did in North Fulton and North DeKalb in full force a few years ago they still pay for basic county services like mass transit, schools, the justice system and the county hospital.
These areas are still very much part of the counties they reside in despite incorporation, they just have more immediate local control over zoning, land use and code enforcement issues and have a greater say over the tax revenues that are collected within their boundaries.
Besides, seeing more neighborhoods in unincorporated areas wanting to incorporate into cities after they’ve become more heavily populated isn’t anything unusual in that it’s a fairly recent occurrence in Metro Atlanta, but happened in older and more established large metro areas around the country years ago.
“Our traffic is a fine example of what happens with multiple small governments in one connected area…..People who want to create another little section for themselves are jackholes. Period.”
Our traffic problem in the Atlanta Region is a result of the complete failure of the State of Georgia to take the lead on transportation planning issues like every other state/providence in the industrialized Western world does and has to when their largest cities grow and expand into their surrounding regions to encompass multiple jurisdictions throughout a state.
The Atlanta Region is no longer confined to only Fulton and DeKalb Counties but now encompasses close to 30 counties in North Georgia. When a metro region becomes that big and all-compassing it creates a traffic problem that two core jurisdictions can no longer manage alone and MUST have the help and coordination of the state to do so.