BJ hasn’t hit above .250, or OPSd above .759 in the last 4 years… 4 year sample sizes are pretty commonly used. We can look at his career numbers, yes, but do keep in mind that Upton hasn’t come close to his 2007-8 numbers at all.
2007-8 .286/.384/.452/.836 121 OPS+ (BABIPs of .393 and .344) avg. 81 walks, 144 Ks
And in the 2009-12 stretch, his best year was 2011, when he hit .243/.331/.429/.759 (114 OPS+). His OPS+ the last 3 years, taking out 2009, where he did struggle shows a .242/.317/.436/.753 line (106 OPS+). He’s improving on power, not so much on walks and avg… babip is around normal for him.
and, as I’ve shown before, BJ doesn’t really replace Bourn…. offense and defense, and this includes Bourn’s sukkage in the 2nd half. He’s still a good 30+ runs or so better.
we’re basically hoping that BJ makes some major strides and somehow gets back to the player he was in 2007-8, or at least closer to that… he hasn’t really made any progress on that the last 4 years, as he was approaching and entering his prime, as one would expect him to. Maybe now is the time that he gets it together, we surely need it.
Glad to see the photos of Gattis and Mejia now corrected. When first posted the article showed a photo of Mejia but had Gattis’ name listed under it. JT Grace
No, it did not. I changed the photo because you wouldn’t stop with insisting Gattis photo was Mejia, when anyone could clearly see the guy (Gattis) wasn’t wearing batting gloves, and Mejia wears two batting gloves like just about every other hitter. Gattis wears none.]
I merely switched Gattis pictures so you’d stop. And I added a Mejia pic so you could see him in batting gloves with full beard.
You were wrong weeks ago on this subject, wrong again yesterday. But keep insisting otherwise, it’s all good.
Don (9:33) – Last year, you posted incessently over injuries to the pitching staff, blaming McDowell and Fredi. This year, the object of your constant scorn is the acquisition of B.J. Upton. Do your focus an equal amount of attention on things you like?
If it ticks off the politically correct crowd, then I am all in. I will be purchasing a cap in the near future. If that logo and the Braves name is politically incorrect, then Gattis’ nickname “El Oso Blanco” should be downright racist.
Thanks for being brave enough to share your true feelings, DOB, and not to cower to the politically correct mob. That took guts.
For those who can’t understand or just refuse to accept my explanation that the Braves aren’t talking about the logo and caps because they haven’t been acknowledged much less unveiled and put on sale yet, here’s the response this morning when I asked a Braves official in charge of such matters:
“We will respond with a statement when/if caps are officially released by MLB. Before then any statements will come from MLB.”
“If it ticks off the politically correct crowd [fill in the blanks with uneducated white people comments]”
Gosh, my view on this has nothing to do with political correctness. A LOL image of an Indian warrior head? Is this typical of what you’d see or are we taking liberties here? Gosh, some of you guys are nitwits. Exactly why would the warrior being laughing hysterically? Like somebody said yesterday, a couple braves interns looked at a couple vendor samples and liked this one because bubbas would snatch ‘em up.
“If it ticks off the politically correct crowd [fill in the blanks with uneducated white people comments]”
Gosh, my view on this has nothing to do with political correctness. A LOL image of an Indian warrior head? Is this typical of what you’d see or are we taking liberties here? Gosh, some of you guys are nitwits. Exactly why would the warrior being laughing hysterically? Like somebody said yesterday, a couple braves interns looked at a couple vendor samples and liked this one because bubbas would snatch ‘em up.
Thanks for not being afraid to write about such a topic, DOB. We need more of that in the media, in journalism, etc. It’s become too politically incorrect to avoid such topics, which gets us nowhere, in my view.
I tend to like the logo and don’t see the big deal, at first glance. But admittedly I think that sort of thinking could be offensive. If some logo is offensive or might be offensive to some in a particular group, probably best to avoid it, if for no other reason than PR. Why test the limits of offense? Why even come close to the line? Why not just stay far from the line, where possible, especially when bringing in something new?
I understand not changing team names, from a business perspective, when a brand has been built around a team name, as cold as that sounds. Plus I’m sure there are a lot of legal hoops to jump through with the league office and merchandising, etc. to completely change a team’s name. But maybe it’s wise, again if from nothing more than from a PR perspective, to make things as least offensive as possible.
This is one time when I’m glad our blog poll only permits one vote from any individual IP address. Believe it allows poll voting to reflect how our readers feel about the subject, rather than if the poll permitted individuals to vote multiple times and potential skew the results toward whichever folks had the most time and determination to vote repeatedly.
Thanks for not being afraid to write about such a topic, DOB. We need more of that in the media, in journalism, etc. It’s become too politically incorrect to avoid such topics, which gets us nowhere, in my view. — Shaun
Shaun – I understand what you are saying. But, where does the line get drawn? People and groups have different ideas of where the line should be? if we take the PC idea to the extreme, we would eventually have a team named the Atlanta Toys in non-descript solid uniforms playing the Miami Water in solid non-descript unifiorms.
It is &^%$*ing cold today. Minus 14 when I got up and a high of (maybe) 8 by this afternoon. If I’d known it would be this cold, I never would have scheduled everything I had to do for today.
Sorry for the bolding. When you get a chance, would you delete the comment from The Only Braves Fan at 12:49 am. It has a link to some personal information, a fundraising site, that I would not have posted here without clearing it with you first, if at all.
Cliff – Depends on what “Toy” you’d use for a Mascot. I’m certain we could find fault with anything they decided on. Political correctness knows no bounds, nor does insanity in it’s adherence to PC.
Pat Lackey @whygavs
The DH is coming to the NL sooner rather than later with regular interleague play. The sooner we all accept it, the happier we all are
Cliff Fiscal, I certainly think political correctness can be and perhaps has been taken too far in our culture and society, no doubt about it. But just because it may be difficult to find the line doesn’t mean there isn’t one or that people or businesses or sports teams should just ignore making their best judgements in where it might be.
I think there is harm in being overly sensitive for no reason, when being insensitive is necessary. But I don’t see the harm in being cautious when it comes to possibly offending certain groups, especially from a business perspective when it could hit a business in the wallet.
Bat, thanks for taking the time to check in and clarify the Liberty/XM Sirius deal, the info I found wasn’t too clear with the facts. I just hope they don’t make massive cuts or changes with the basics, like Clear Channel does when they take over a radio station.
Plus, it’s good to see you and prayers still going up for your brother.
Shaun, did you see the post advising you Bill James is the guest on Clubhouse Confidential today? I’m even excited about that, he doesn’t do many of those shows on MLB.
Shaun- Agreed when looking at it from a business perspective. Caution is probably best, although it might be that the publicity and discussion taking place could impact the wallet positively. In any event, I would love to hear the opinions of native americans on this topic.
Sure thing. I don’t think Liberty would do much programming wise with Siri/XM but whatever they do with the company you can rest assured tax avoidance on their profits will be the driving force. That’s how they ended up with the Braves, asset swaps plus getting. Billion dollars in cash tax free.
Thanks for the thoughts and prayers for my brother.
Tim Brown @TBrownYahoo
Scout on Javier Vazquez in PR winter ball: Physically looks great, ball coming out of his hand well, could be a sneaky good pickup
Very well put in your 10:56 post. Whether it’s offensive or not, it seemed fairly predictable that it would be perceived as such by some, and in that light it’s just a poor business decision to introduce controversy where it could have been easily avoided.
DOB; Any word how Francis’co is look’n like lately? Is he a Lean Mean Thump’n Machine yet? El oso Francisco gonna Look Like a second com’n lefthanded Mike Schmidt?
I like the Florida State approach: Get approval from the Seminoles. I would think at least some Irish people had some say in Notre Dame’s mascot and team name. This seems like a good idea. I think it would do a lot of good for the Braves to present themselves as trying to be just a bit of a source of pride for American Indians, for what that’s worth. Baseball, like all businesses and entertainment ventures (and probably everything to some degree), should be about people.
Love the logo. Keep it! And I’m half Irish and not the least bit offended by the Fighting Irish logo. I wish people would stop being so sensitive and politically correct.
was just saying, sure BJ has a career line of .255/.336/.422/.758 (102 OPS+), .255/.338/.430/.768 (109 OPS+) since 2007 when he became a regular…. but the BJ Upton of 2007-8 who posted OBPs over .380, hit .270+. and OPSd near 800 hasn’t been seen the last 4 years. Highest avg. is .247, highest OBP is .331, and a .759 OPS
He’s been pretty bad the last 4 seasons, and I even took out 2009 when he really struggled, and it’s still not all that good. .242/.317/.436/.753. Hasn’t really improved in the last 3 years, as he’s approached his prime.
Now, if we can get him posting babips of .393 and .344 as he did in his first 2 seasons….
Damn, wish I grew up in the era of Sinatra, Mitchum and the Duke. Sure they wouldn’t spend hours being sensitive lil candy azz posting. nuff of the oversensitivity for the love of John Wayne.
Oh yeah, Jeff Keppinger would have been a solid fit here taking over hot corner. Missed the ball here.
tommyp I honestly can’t figure out how some intelligent people on here can’t see the problem with the logo. Or even the use of Native Americans as mascots.
The best comparison would be for a German sports team to name their team after the Jewish and then claim that they are honoring them.
um…do you consider yourself a intelligent person? if you do, and think the above comparison is logical, than im happy to not be in the same intelligence category as you.
“Did I say BJ was bad?” If not in those words, you paraphrased it in any other way possible.
For crying out loud – he hasn’t even played a game for the Braves yet and we’re already tired of hearing about it. If you keep this up for five more years someone will take out a contract on you.
average, or just above. Not a premium player, but given his age, he shouldn’t drop of on us at the end of the deal… still doesn’t replace Bourn’s production from last year though.
Jordan Schafer @JordanSchafer
@C_Johnson28 n u lost to NC state… What they ranked? N I’m still waiting for u to tell me last time ACC won a national championship
Thanks for the new goods. And the use of the old logo? Nothing but good, in my opinion. It reminds me of my first baseball game as a ten year old at Atlanta Stadium in 1969;short sleeve Sundays in the southern summer; the three piece Dixieland band that roamed the stands; the guy who brought his trumpet to home games, sat in section 107–field level–and would stand up to play “Charge” three times as the crowd bellowed the word; Marshall Mann’s voice booming around the stadium, “First baseman, Orrrr-land-oooo Ce-peeeee-da!; a large brown bag of roasted peanuts we brought from home–washed down with hometown Coca-Cola–and the ever increasing pile of shells at our feet; my dad’s cupped hands at his mouth as he yelled, “That wasn’t a strike!”; and my asking him one more time as I pointed to the on deck circle, “Dad, is that Hank Aaron?”.
Leave the braves new batting cap alone. The Indian logo looks great. No one should be offended. John Lukas has nothing better to write about. The Indian logo shouldnbenon the sleeve of the braves uniform.Next thing you know the ACLU will stick their noise in to a simple thing as a logo.Enough of this BS.
[...] From Other Great Blogs issue #1 Posted on January 3, 2013 by Dugout Online Editor On the Braves’ Indian-head logo, future catching and LF – blogs.ajc.com 01/02/2013 The Braves GM is back in the office after a holidays vacation, and [...]
[...] From Other Great Blogs issue #1 Posted on January 3, 2013 by Dugout Online Editor On the Braves’ Indian-head logo, future catching and LF – blogs.ajc.com 01/02/2013 The Braves GM is back in the office after a holidays vacation, and [...]
Don’t really have an opinion on the cap apart from its ugly. It won’t see the light of day but who really cares it is a batting practice cap for god sake.
The only retro thing I want from this team is from the 90s and it is called winning, a butt load. Not leaving ?marks and platoons on the team and going for it.
Hats, banners, fan caravans, etc are just noise. Winning and investing in players to win are what counts.
DH, I think there is a difference in the standing of the Irish in America, ultimately, and the standing of the American Indian in America. That’s probably why some are offended by representations of one but not the other.
C – RH GERALD LAIRD / LH BRIAN McCANN
1B LH FREDDY FREEMAN
2B RH DAN UGGLA
SS – RH AL SIMMONS
3B RH MARTIN PRADO – RH utility / regular 3B / back-up LF / 2B / 1B
Bench
JUAN FRANCISCO – LH power bat / back-up 3B
ERNESTO MEJIA – RH power bat / back-up 1B
EVAN ‘Bear’ GATTIS – RH power bat. / platoon LF / back-up C
PAUL JANISH – RH back-up SS / 2B
REED JOHNSON – RH platoon LF
Does anyone else see why FRANCISCO is more likely than others to make the 25-man?
The best comparison would be for a German sports team to name their team after the Jewish and then claim that they are honoring them.
I don’t think this view is completely unfair. I can certainly see that side of things. Though I do think the history of American Indians is probably more complex.
DOB Happy New Year. Wanted to know why Braves are not looking at switch hitter Nick Swisher. With our only switch hitter gone in Chipper I think Nick Swisher would be a good fit. If not Swisher what about Stanton from the marlins. Thanks.
shaun I don’t think this view is completely unfair. I can certainly see that side of things.
no, it is completely unfair. i left out the part where tommyp said the logo would a skeleton looking person with baggy clothes. its not even close to the same thing, and comparing the two shows ignorance and a huge leap of logic. sorry, such a view is not viable.
are you sure avoiding controversy is a good business decision? – DAP
You are right. In some cases avoiding controversy may not be a good business decision. I’d even argue that in some organizations controversy is welcomed rather than avoided (hello Marlins). However, I feel that the Braves organization prides itself on being “professional” and trying to stay above this type of controversy. I think we will see from their reaction to this where they stand on it. If the reaction is to remove the logo from the new hats (or not admit that it was ever part of them), then to me that says the organization had things go in a way they didn’t anticipate, and I view that as extremely short-sighted and obtuse. If the organization stands by the design and moves forward anyway, then it would seem they knew what they were doing the whole time, and I’ll stand corrected.
How much could Vazquez possibly go for? $5mil a season? Seems he’s worth picking up with an option year… would make dealing Teheran or Delgado… or Maholm… hurt less at the deadline.
All this controversy about the caps is really a ploy to distract us from the fact no “premium” player has been acquired thus far for LF. Very sneaky, Braves’ management
Tim Brown@TBrownYahoo
Scout on Javier Vazquez in PR winter ball: Physically looks great, ball coming out of his hand well, could be a sneaky good pickup.
Dude was $$ for us… maybe he can do it again, move Maholm for a hitting prospect or two
January 3rd, 2013
10:02 am
BJ hasn’t hit above .250, or OPSd above .759 in the last 4 years… 4 year sample sizes are pretty commonly used. We can look at his career numbers, yes, but do keep in mind that Upton hasn’t come close to his 2007-8 numbers at all.
2007-8 .286/.384/.452/.836 121 OPS+ (BABIPs of .393 and .344) avg. 81 walks, 144 Ks
And in the 2009-12 stretch, his best year was 2011, when he hit .243/.331/.429/.759 (114 OPS+). His OPS+ the last 3 years, taking out 2009, where he did struggle shows a .242/.317/.436/.753 line (106 OPS+). He’s improving on power, not so much on walks and avg… babip is around normal for him.
I think he will stay around those numbers
*************************************************
Good day all
AGREED, What is very telling is BJ’s best full seasons were his first two, then the fall off. It means AL pitchers fould a flaw in his hitting and his numbers dropped, as soon as NL pitchers find that flaw WE ARE SCREWED. BJ will hit in low .240s and LAUGH all tje way to the bank with BRAVES money, It is NOT going to be pretty to watch.
The Braves are definitely sitting there with their fingers crossed with high hopes that Juan Francisco, Dan Uggla, and B.J. Upton have better than average years. Who knows maybe the Braves’ frugality will pay off in a big way and Juan will hit 20+ homers. That’s what they need if they want to beat out the Nationals: above average production from everyone because that’s how good the Nats potentially look to be. Maybe Uggla can turn it around again and the same goes for Upton with him going 30-30. Then they’re probably also sitting there hoping that they see an increase in production from both Heyward (higher OBP) and Freeman, which is definitely possible. The Braves definitely need McCann to bounce back in a big way. If all this happens, then damn, the Braves could wind up dominating. As an added plus, the Braves seem to have Strasburg figured out. So in my ideal lineup with everyone producing: 1) Simmons 2) Prado 3) Heyward 4) Upton 5) Freeman 6) Uggla 7) McCann Big Juan. The Braves need to start hitting with average again to make their offense as productive as possible. But if Uggla doesn’t produce, then they’ll be hurting in the worst way possible and same with McCann. If the two of them turn it around and the Braves get something out of the 25million they’re getting, then they’ll be in fine shape. I just hate how bad Uggla looks against certain pitchers, i.e. Cole Hamels. The Braves could be a top ten offense this year and to do so they’ll need big time production from Upton, Uggla, and Francisco. Those are the Braves’ “X Factors”.
Wonder if there’s any chance of getting Gyorko from SD to play 3B, since he’s blocked there by Headley. That would let Prado stay in LF and fill in the IF when necessary.
Wow – this blog has covered more topics than an issue of the National Enquirer! I’m almost surprised that the “let’s trade for Lastings Milledge” crowd hasn’t weighed in yet!
Maybe we should ALL just decide to be offended at everything — then the team could play in dull gray t-shirts with no logo and no markings and no numbers. Maybe THEN we can win a World Series..! The team could be called the Atlanta _______. A blank can’t offend anyone!
Anyone interested in what some Native Americans think about the depiction of their culture should check out two documentaries: “Reel Injun” and “In Whose Honor”. Not the exact same issues but food for thought.
Anyone interested in what some Native Americans think about the depiction of their culture should check out two documentaries: “Reel Injun” and “In Whose Honor”. Not the exact same issues but food for thought.
Here’s a good question – will Uggla show up at spring training with even bigger biceps than last year? That’s what he did in the spring of 2012. It SEEMS like his off-season conditioning program would deal more with hand-eye coordination and flexibility. His problem isn’t a lack of biceps – it’s a lack of making solid contact. If his biceps become too big to fit in a jersey, can he play shirtless?
McCann’s rehab is going well, set to begin light throwing in a few weeks, then dry swings. When I asked someone familiar with the situation (not McCann himself) whether the 2-4 weeks missed estimate at start of season still sounded about right, he said it was too early to say and that McCann is actually targeting Opening Day.
Not that he’s taking any shortcuts or rushing things, he’s just aiming for Opening Day if no setbacks and things keep progressing. (Braves might determine they don’t want him to return that quickly, but I think just him targeting that date says something about how well things are going and his state of mind this winter.)
Reading all this talk about the logo for me is probably similar to most of you folks having to listen to my once every couple of years’ political rantings.
2,686 comments Add your comment
richbrave
January 3rd, 2013
9:56 am
Got to get me some screamin’ indian BRAVES batting cap. Will match my screamin’ indian logo tee I bought at East Cobb in 2011.
BYW, he sure looks like he’s smilin’ to me.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
10:02 am
BJ hasn’t hit above .250, or OPSd above .759 in the last 4 years… 4 year sample sizes are pretty commonly used. We can look at his career numbers, yes, but do keep in mind that Upton hasn’t come close to his 2007-8 numbers at all.
2007-8 .286/.384/.452/.836 121 OPS+ (BABIPs of .393 and .344) avg. 81 walks, 144 Ks
2009-12 .242/.316/.420/.736 102 OPS+ (BABIIPs of .310, .304, .298, .294) avg. 60 walks, 162 Ks
And in the 2009-12 stretch, his best year was 2011, when he hit .243/.331/.429/.759 (114 OPS+). His OPS+ the last 3 years, taking out 2009, where he did struggle shows a .242/.317/.436/.753 line (106 OPS+). He’s improving on power, not so much on walks and avg… babip is around normal for him.
I think he will stay around those numbers
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
10:05 am
and, as I’ve shown before, BJ doesn’t really replace Bourn…. offense and defense, and this includes Bourn’s sukkage in the 2nd half. He’s still a good 30+ runs or so better.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
10:07 am
we’re basically hoping that BJ makes some major strides and somehow gets back to the player he was in 2007-8, or at least closer to that… he hasn’t really made any progress on that the last 4 years, as he was approaching and entering his prime, as one would expect him to. Maybe now is the time that he gets it together, we surely need it.
JT Grace
January 3rd, 2013
10:08 am
Glad to see the photos of Gattis and Mejia now corrected. When first posted the article showed a photo of Mejia but had Gattis’ name listed under it.
Slowhiteguy
January 3rd, 2013
10:11 am
TommyP…Easy now.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2013
10:22 am
Glad to see the photos of Gattis and Mejia now corrected. When first posted the article showed a photo of Mejia but had Gattis’ name listed under it. JT Grace
No, it did not. I changed the photo because you wouldn’t stop with insisting Gattis photo was Mejia, when anyone could clearly see the guy (Gattis) wasn’t wearing batting gloves, and Mejia wears two batting gloves like just about every other hitter. Gattis wears none.]
I merely switched Gattis pictures so you’d stop. And I added a Mejia pic so you could see him in batting gloves with full beard.
You were wrong weeks ago on this subject, wrong again yesterday. But keep insisting otherwise, it’s all good.
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
10:26 am
Don (9:33) – Last year, you posted incessently over injuries to the pitching staff, blaming McDowell and Fredi. This year, the object of your constant scorn is the acquisition of B.J. Upton. Do your focus an equal amount of attention on things you like?
Abnerish
January 3rd, 2013
10:30 am
If it ticks off the politically correct crowd, then I am all in. I will be purchasing a cap in the near future. If that logo and the Braves name is politically incorrect, then Gattis’ nickname “El Oso Blanco” should be downright racist.
Thanks for being brave enough to share your true feelings, DOB, and not to cower to the politically correct mob. That took guts.
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
10:31 am
DOB – People often have a hard time admitting when they are wrong. Better to insist on being right than to be humble.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2013
10:39 am
For those who can’t understand or just refuse to accept my explanation that the Braves aren’t talking about the logo and caps because they haven’t been acknowledged much less unveiled and put on sale yet, here’s the response this morning when I asked a Braves official in charge of such matters:
“We will respond with a statement when/if caps are officially released by MLB. Before then any statements will come from MLB.”
Todd Gakk
January 3rd, 2013
10:46 am
“If it ticks off the politically correct crowd [fill in the blanks with uneducated white people comments]”
Gosh, my view on this has nothing to do with political correctness. A LOL image of an Indian warrior head? Is this typical of what you’d see or are we taking liberties here? Gosh, some of you guys are nitwits. Exactly why would the warrior being laughing hysterically? Like somebody said yesterday, a couple braves interns looked at a couple vendor samples and liked this one because bubbas would snatch ‘em up.
Todd Gakk
January 3rd, 2013
10:46 am
“If it ticks off the politically correct crowd [fill in the blanks with uneducated white people comments]”
Gosh, my view on this has nothing to do with political correctness. A LOL image of an Indian warrior head? Is this typical of what you’d see or are we taking liberties here? Gosh, some of you guys are nitwits. Exactly why would the warrior being laughing hysterically? Like somebody said yesterday, a couple braves interns looked at a couple vendor samples and liked this one because bubbas would snatch ‘em up.
chipl1960
January 3rd, 2013
10:47 am
Is this the same Don or .Don from last year? I hope not.
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
10:47 am
If the PC crowd had its way, we would have been singing last month “I’m dreaming of a multi-colored holiday.”
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
10:48 am
Chip – I believe it is the same Don. I could be wrong.
chipl1960
January 3rd, 2013
10:50 am
Enough about the caps already folks. Good God what has our society come to? Seriously?
chipl1960
January 3rd, 2013
10:53 am
David= alert for rampant idiocy on the blog.
Shaun
January 3rd, 2013
10:56 am
Thanks for not being afraid to write about such a topic, DOB. We need more of that in the media, in journalism, etc. It’s become too politically incorrect to avoid such topics, which gets us nowhere, in my view.
I tend to like the logo and don’t see the big deal, at first glance. But admittedly I think that sort of thinking could be offensive. If some logo is offensive or might be offensive to some in a particular group, probably best to avoid it, if for no other reason than PR. Why test the limits of offense? Why even come close to the line? Why not just stay far from the line, where possible, especially when bringing in something new?
I understand not changing team names, from a business perspective, when a brand has been built around a team name, as cold as that sounds. Plus I’m sure there are a lot of legal hoops to jump through with the league office and merchandising, etc. to completely change a team’s name. But maybe it’s wise, again if from nothing more than from a PR perspective, to make things as least offensive as possible.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2013
10:59 am
“Scream’n Braves”
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2013
11:00 am
This is one time when I’m glad our blog poll only permits one vote from any individual IP address. Believe it allows poll voting to reflect how our readers feel about the subject, rather than if the poll permitted individuals to vote multiple times and potential skew the results toward whichever folks had the most time and determination to vote repeatedly.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2013
11:01 am
“Braves Warrior”
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2013
11:02 am
Thanks for not being afraid to write about such a topic, DOB. We need more of that in the media, in journalism, etc. It’s become too politically incorrect to avoid such topics, which gets us nowhere, in my view. — Shaun
Thanks, Shaun.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2013
11:03 am
Shaun and Abnerish: Thanks.
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
11:04 am
Shaun – I understand what you are saying. But, where does the line get drawn? People and groups have different ideas of where the line should be? if we take the PC idea to the extreme, we would eventually have a team named the Atlanta Toys in non-descript solid uniforms playing the Miami Water in solid non-descript unifiorms.
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
11:04 am
It is &^%$*ing cold today. Minus 14 when I got up and a high of (maybe) 8 by this afternoon. If I’d known it would be this cold, I never would have scheduled everything I had to do for today.
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
11:07 am
That is, unless the names “Toys” and “Water” are offensive to some people.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2013
11:09 am
David O’Brien
Sorry for the bolding. When you get a chance, would you delete the comment from The Only Braves Fan at 12:49 am. It has a link to some personal information, a fundraising site, that I would not have posted here without clearing it with you first, if at all.
Thank you
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
11:09 am
So now we’re debating not just the logo but the team name too?
Ri-freakin-diculous.
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
11:09 am
Cliff – Depends on what “Toy” you’d use for a Mascot. I’m certain we could find fault with anything they decided on. Political correctness knows no bounds, nor does insanity in it’s adherence to PC.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
11:10 am
Hi Bat!
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2013
11:13 am
Hi Murph!
Happy New Year. How was Christmas and the now 5 year olds birthday?
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
11:13 am
Pat Lackey @whygavs
The DH is coming to the NL sooner rather than later with regular interleague play. The sooner we all accept it, the happier we all are
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
11:15 am
I forgot that the mascot would be ripe for attack by the PCers. This slippery slope is quite a problem.
Shaun
January 3rd, 2013
11:15 am
Cliff Fiscal, I certainly think political correctness can be and perhaps has been taken too far in our culture and society, no doubt about it. But just because it may be difficult to find the line doesn’t mean there isn’t one or that people or businesses or sports teams should just ignore making their best judgements in where it might be.
I think there is harm in being overly sensitive for no reason, when being insensitive is necessary. But I don’t see the harm in being cautious when it comes to possibly offending certain groups, especially from a business perspective when it could hit a business in the wallet.
kenhotlanta
January 3rd, 2013
11:16 am
Bat, thanks for taking the time to check in and clarify the Liberty/XM Sirius deal, the info I found wasn’t too clear with the facts. I just hope they don’t make massive cuts or changes with the basics, like Clear Channel does when they take over a radio station.
Plus, it’s good to see you and prayers still going up for your brother.
kenhotlanta
January 3rd, 2013
11:21 am
Shaun, did you see the post advising you Bill James is the guest on Clubhouse Confidential today? I’m even excited about that, he doesn’t do many of those shows on MLB.
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
11:22 am
Shaun- Agreed when looking at it from a business perspective. Caution is probably best, although it might be that the publicity and discussion taking place could impact the wallet positively. In any event, I would love to hear the opinions of native americans on this topic.
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
11:23 am
Shaun – I pretty much agree with you for once. However – The necessity of insensitivity? Yeah, that’s you all right.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2013
11:25 am
ken,
Sure thing. I don’t think Liberty would do much programming wise with Siri/XM but whatever they do with the company you can rest assured tax avoidance on their profits will be the driving force. That’s how they ended up with the Braves, asset swaps plus getting. Billion dollars in cash tax free.
Thanks for the thoughts and prayers for my brother.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
11:27 am
Tim Brown @TBrownYahoo
Scout on Javier Vazquez in PR winter ball: Physically looks great, ball coming out of his hand well, could be a sneaky good pickup
RC
January 3rd, 2013
11:29 am
Shaun,
Very well put in your 10:56 post. Whether it’s offensive or not, it seemed fairly predictable that it would be perceived as such by some, and in that light it’s just a poor business decision to introduce controversy where it could have been easily avoided.
Joey
January 3rd, 2013
11:30 am
Why not picture a native american more in line with our Cherokee culture here in the south. Or just stick with the tomahawk.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2013
11:33 am
DOB; Any word how Francis’co is look’n like lately? Is he a Lean Mean Thump’n Machine yet? El oso Francisco gonna Look Like a second com’n lefthanded Mike Schmidt?
SC Dawg
January 3rd, 2013
11:38 am
Why not let the Cherokee Eastern Tribe in North Carolina if the Logo is ok. I for one like it.
Shaun
January 3rd, 2013
11:43 am
I like the Florida State approach: Get approval from the Seminoles. I would think at least some Irish people had some say in Notre Dame’s mascot and team name. This seems like a good idea. I think it would do a lot of good for the Braves to present themselves as trying to be just a bit of a source of pride for American Indians, for what that’s worth. Baseball, like all businesses and entertainment ventures (and probably everything to some degree), should be about people.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
11:44 am
Juan did well in winter ball last year…. stunk in ST and wasn’t real good during the season….
UKUGA
January 3rd, 2013
11:51 am
The more effort you make to stay clear of the line, the more closely the line will be pulled in.
It works the same going the other direction as well. Test the boundaries, and the boundaries will grow.
UKUGA
January 3rd, 2013
11:52 am
Meanwhile, it seems this hat, which hasn’t even been released yet, has generated quite a bit of buzz.
How much have the Braves paid for this attention?
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2013
11:53 am
TOBF – Yes, we get it!
BJ = BAD
Greinke = GOOD
Time, my very young friend, to move on to new topics.
DH
January 3rd, 2013
11:59 am
Love the logo. Keep it! And I’m half Irish and not the least bit offended by the Fighting Irish logo. I wish people would stop being so sensitive and politically correct.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2013
12:00 pm
Wait, when did the BRAVES bring in GREINKE?
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
12:03 pm
did I say BJ was bad? or just that I expect him to be what he has been the past 4 years….
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2013
12:04 pm
richbrave – Where ya been?
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2013
12:05 pm
Which you consider, at the most, not very good.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
12:09 pm
was just saying, sure BJ has a career line of .255/.336/.422/.758 (102 OPS+), .255/.338/.430/.768 (109 OPS+) since 2007 when he became a regular…. but the BJ Upton of 2007-8 who posted OBPs over .380, hit .270+. and OPSd near 800 hasn’t been seen the last 4 years. Highest avg. is .247, highest OBP is .331, and a .759 OPS
He’s been pretty bad the last 4 seasons, and I even took out 2009 when he really struggled, and it’s still not all that good. .242/.317/.436/.753. Hasn’t really improved in the last 3 years, as he’s approached his prime.
Now, if we can get him posting babips of .393 and .344 as he did in his first 2 seasons….
Frankie
January 3rd, 2013
12:10 pm
Damn, wish I grew up in the era of Sinatra, Mitchum and the Duke. Sure they wouldn’t spend hours being sensitive lil candy azz posting. nuff of the oversensitivity for the love of John Wayne.
Oh yeah, Jeff Keppinger would have been a solid fit here taking over hot corner. Missed the ball here.
DAP
January 3rd, 2013
12:11 pm
tommyp I honestly can’t figure out how some intelligent people on here can’t see the problem with the logo. Or even the use of Native Americans as mascots.
The best comparison would be for a German sports team to name their team after the Jewish and then claim that they are honoring them.
um…do you consider yourself a intelligent person? if you do, and think the above comparison is logical, than im happy to not be in the same intelligence category as you.
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
12:12 pm
“Did I say BJ was bad?” If not in those words, you paraphrased it in any other way possible.
For crying out loud – he hasn’t even played a game for the Braves yet and we’re already tired of hearing about it. If you keep this up for five more years someone will take out a contract on you.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
12:12 pm
average, or just above. Not a premium player, but given his age, he shouldn’t drop of on us at the end of the deal… still doesn’t replace Bourn’s production from last year though.
Jordan Schafer @JordanSchafer
@C_Johnson28 n u lost to NC state… What they ranked? N I’m still waiting for u to tell me last time ACC won a national championship
haggard
January 3rd, 2013
12:12 pm
David O’Brien
Thanks for the new goods. And the use of the old logo? Nothing but good, in my opinion. It reminds me of my first baseball game as a ten year old at Atlanta Stadium in 1969;short sleeve Sundays in the southern summer; the three piece Dixieland band that roamed the stands; the guy who brought his trumpet to home games, sat in section 107–field level–and would stand up to play “Charge” three times as the crowd bellowed the word; Marshall Mann’s voice booming around the stadium, “First baseman, Orrrr-land-oooo Ce-peeeee-da!; a large brown bag of roasted peanuts we brought from home–washed down with hometown Coca-Cola–and the ever increasing pile of shells at our feet; my dad’s cupped hands at his mouth as he yelled, “That wasn’t a strike!”; and my asking him one more time as I pointed to the on deck circle, “Dad, is that Hank Aaron?”.
haggard
January 3rd, 2013
12:13 pm
Later good folks
Joe casey
January 3rd, 2013
12:20 pm
Leave the braves new batting cap alone. The Indian logo looks great. No one should be offended. John Lukas has nothing better to write about. The Indian logo shouldnbenon the sleeve of the braves uniform.Next thing you know the ACLU will stick their noise in to a simple thing as a logo.Enough of this BS.
Posts about The Braves From Other Great Blogs issue #1 | Atlanta Braves Dugout Online | Atlanta Braves Blog
January 3rd, 2013
12:21 pm
[...] From Other Great Blogs issue #1 Posted on January 3, 2013 by Dugout Online Editor On the Braves’ Indian-head logo, future catching and LF – blogs.ajc.com 01/02/2013 The Braves GM is back in the office after a holidays vacation, and [...]
Posts about The Braves From Other Great Blogs issue #1 | Atlanta Braves Dugout Online | Atlanta Braves Blog
January 3rd, 2013
12:21 pm
[...] From Other Great Blogs issue #1 Posted on January 3, 2013 by Dugout Online Editor On the Braves’ Indian-head logo, future catching and LF – blogs.ajc.com 01/02/2013 The Braves GM is back in the office after a holidays vacation, and [...]
klaus
January 3rd, 2013
12:23 pm
Don’t really have an opinion on the cap apart from its ugly.
It won’t see the light of day but who really cares it is a batting practice cap for god sake.
The only retro thing I want from this team is from the 90s and it is called winning, a butt load. Not leaving ?marks and platoons on the team and going for it.
Hats, banners, fan caravans, etc are just noise. Winning and investing in players to win are what counts.
klaus
January 3rd, 2013
12:25 pm
Full disclosure I have a headache today
Hat is still ugly though
Shaun
January 3rd, 2013
12:25 pm
DH, I think there is a difference in the standing of the Irish in America, ultimately, and the standing of the American Indian in America. That’s probably why some are offended by representations of one but not the other.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2013
12:25 pm
OF
LF – RH PRADO/JOHNSON
CF – RH UPTON
RF – LH HEYWARD
Inf
C – RH GERALD LAIRD / LH BRIAN McCANN
1B LH FREDDY FREEMAN
2B RH DAN UGGLA
SS – RH AL SIMMONS
3B RH MARTIN PRADO – RH utility / regular 3B / back-up LF / 2B / 1B
Bench
JUAN FRANCISCO – LH power bat / back-up 3B
ERNESTO MEJIA – RH power bat / back-up 1B
EVAN ‘Bear’ GATTIS – RH power bat. / platoon LF / back-up C
PAUL JANISH – RH back-up SS / 2B
REED JOHNSON – RH platoon LF
Does anyone else see why FRANCISCO is more likely than others to make the 25-man?
DAP
January 3rd, 2013
12:26 pm
RC it’s just a poor business decision to introduce controversy where it could have been easily avoided.
are you sure avoiding controversy is a good business decision?
besides, you have to know your audience. the braves’ audience is not offended by such things. (very few people are)
Shaun
January 3rd, 2013
12:28 pm
The best comparison would be for a German sports team to name their team after the Jewish and then claim that they are honoring them.
I don’t think this view is completely unfair. I can certainly see that side of things. Though I do think the history of American Indians is probably more complex.
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
12:33 pm
still being lectured by the PC Po-leece I see
lefty Dave
January 3rd, 2013
12:33 pm
DOB Happy New Year. Wanted to know why Braves are not looking at switch hitter Nick Swisher. With our only switch hitter gone in Chipper I think Nick Swisher would be a good fit. If not Swisher what about Stanton from the marlins. Thanks.
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
12:34 pm
WASP guilt rules
DAP
January 3rd, 2013
12:35 pm
shaun I don’t think this view is completely unfair. I can certainly see that side of things.
no, it is completely unfair. i left out the part where tommyp said the logo would a skeleton looking person with baggy clothes. its not even close to the same thing, and comparing the two shows ignorance and a huge leap of logic. sorry, such a view is not viable.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
12:37 pm
MLB Trade Rumors @mlbtraderumors
Nationals Interested In Javier Vazquez http://bit.ly/10UeGTr #mlb
Damn. Strengthening a strength, they’ve got a top 2-3 rotation.
RC
January 3rd, 2013
12:38 pm
are you sure avoiding controversy is a good business decision? – DAP
You are right. In some cases avoiding controversy may not be a good business decision. I’d even argue that in some organizations controversy is welcomed rather than avoided (hello Marlins). However, I feel that the Braves organization prides itself on being “professional” and trying to stay above this type of controversy. I think we will see from their reaction to this where they stand on it. If the reaction is to remove the logo from the new hats (or not admit that it was ever part of them), then to me that says the organization had things go in a way they didn’t anticipate, and I view that as extremely short-sighted and obtuse. If the organization stands by the design and moves forward anyway, then it would seem they knew what they were doing the whole time, and I’ll stand corrected.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
12:39 pm
How much could Vazquez possibly go for? $5mil a season? Seems he’s worth picking up with an option year… would make dealing Teheran or Delgado… or Maholm… hurt less at the deadline.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
12:40 pm
DOB Happy New Year. Wanted to know why Braves are not looking at switch hitter Nick Swisher.
He’s no longer a free agent. That might have something to do with it.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
12:40 pm
Wanted to know why Braves are not looking at switch hitter Nick Swisher.
Indians won’t be trading him, and I believe they’re banned from doing so anyway… newly signed FA
Cliff Fiscal
January 3rd, 2013
12:42 pm
All this controversy about the caps is really a ploy to distract us from the fact no “premium” player has been acquired thus far for LF. Very sneaky, Braves’ management
TDub
January 3rd, 2013
12:44 pm
…Doesn’t the old Brave logo look a little like Scatman Crothers?
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
12:44 pm
Tim Brown@TBrownYahoo
Scout on Javier Vazquez in PR winter ball: Physically looks great, ball coming out of his hand well, could be a sneaky good pickup.
Dude was $$ for us… maybe he can do it again, move Maholm for a hitting prospect or two
Cliff- Ha!
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
12:47 pm
move Maholm on the off chance that Javi can come back effectively after a year off?
I don’t think so
George_George
January 3rd, 2013
12:50 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
10:02 am
BJ hasn’t hit above .250, or OPSd above .759 in the last 4 years… 4 year sample sizes are pretty commonly used. We can look at his career numbers, yes, but do keep in mind that Upton hasn’t come close to his 2007-8 numbers at all.
2007-8 .286/.384/.452/.836 121 OPS+ (BABIPs of .393 and .344) avg. 81 walks, 144 Ks
2009-12 .242/.316/.420/.736 102 OPS+ (BABIIPs of .310, .304, .298, .294) avg. 60 walks, 162 Ks
And in the 2009-12 stretch, his best year was 2011, when he hit .243/.331/.429/.759 (114 OPS+). His OPS+ the last 3 years, taking out 2009, where he did struggle shows a .242/.317/.436/.753 line (106 OPS+). He’s improving on power, not so much on walks and avg… babip is around normal for him.
I think he will stay around those numbers
*************************************************
Good day all
AGREED, What is very telling is BJ’s best full seasons were his first two, then the fall off. It means AL pitchers fould a flaw in his hitting and his numbers dropped, as soon as NL pitchers find that flaw WE ARE SCREWED. BJ will hit in low .240s and LAUGH all tje way to the bank with BRAVES money, It is NOT going to be pretty to watch.
Peter R.
January 3rd, 2013
12:51 pm
The Braves are definitely sitting there with their fingers crossed with high hopes that Juan Francisco, Dan Uggla, and B.J. Upton have better than average years. Who knows maybe the Braves’ frugality will pay off in a big way and Juan will hit 20+ homers. That’s what they need if they want to beat out the Nationals: above average production from everyone because that’s how good the Nats potentially look to be. Maybe Uggla can turn it around again and the same goes for Upton with him going 30-30. Then they’re probably also sitting there hoping that they see an increase in production from both Heyward (higher OBP) and Freeman, which is definitely possible. The Braves definitely need McCann to bounce back in a big way. If all this happens, then damn, the Braves could wind up dominating. As an added plus, the Braves seem to have Strasburg figured out. So in my ideal lineup with everyone producing: 1) Simmons 2) Prado 3) Heyward 4) Upton 5) Freeman 6) Uggla 7) McCann
Big Juan. The Braves need to start hitting with average again to make their offense as productive as possible. But if Uggla doesn’t produce, then they’ll be hurting in the worst way possible and same with McCann. If the two of them turn it around and the Braves get something out of the 25million they’re getting, then they’ll be in fine shape. I just hate how bad Uggla looks against certain pitchers, i.e. Cole Hamels. The Braves could be a top ten offense this year and to do so they’ll need big time production from Upton, Uggla, and Francisco. Those are the Braves’ “X Factors”.
Macdaddy
January 3rd, 2013
12:53 pm
Ahhh!!! Caravan Schedule is out. I wonder when they’ll put up the players at each stop?
TDub
January 3rd, 2013
12:54 pm
Wonder if there’s any chance of getting Gyorko from SD to play 3B, since he’s blocked there by Headley. That would let Prado stay in LF and fill in the IF when necessary.
Simpson's Homer
January 3rd, 2013
12:55 pm
Wow – this blog has covered more topics than an issue of the National Enquirer! I’m almost surprised that the “let’s trade for Lastings Milledge” crowd hasn’t weighed in yet!
Maybe we should ALL just decide to be offended at everything — then the team could play in dull gray t-shirts with no logo and no markings and no numbers. Maybe THEN we can win a World Series..! The team could be called the Atlanta _______. A blank can’t offend anyone!
NashBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
12:56 pm
Anyone interested in what some Native Americans think about the depiction of their culture should check out two documentaries: “Reel Injun” and “In Whose Honor”. Not the exact same issues but food for thought.
NashBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
12:56 pm
Anyone interested in what some Native Americans think about the depiction of their culture should check out two documentaries: “Reel Injun” and “In Whose Honor”. Not the exact same issues but food for thought.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2013
1:02 pm
“Bear” Gattis; Very Cool nickname; The Bear, hat’s the sub name for the Radio station down in Senoia.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
1:02 pm
move Maholm on the off chance that Javi can come back effectively after a year off?
I don’t think so
No no no… sign Vazquez and, if he does come back strong, you have then have more options come trade deadline time.
Simpson's Homer
January 3rd, 2013
1:05 pm
Here’s a good question – will Uggla show up at spring training with even bigger biceps than last year? That’s what he did in the spring of 2012. It SEEMS like his off-season conditioning program would deal more with hand-eye coordination and flexibility. His problem isn’t a lack of biceps – it’s a lack of making solid contact. If his biceps become too big to fit in a jersey, can he play shirtless?
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2013
1:15 pm
McCann’s rehab is going well, set to begin light throwing in a few weeks, then dry swings. When I asked someone familiar with the situation (not McCann himself) whether the 2-4 weeks missed estimate at start of season still sounded about right, he said it was too early to say and that McCann is actually targeting Opening Day.
Not that he’s taking any shortcuts or rushing things, he’s just aiming for Opening Day if no setbacks and things keep progressing. (Braves might determine they don’t want him to return that quickly, but I think just him targeting that date says something about how well things are going and his state of mind this winter.)
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
1:17 pm
I think that Indian is laughing at all the white folks on the blog agonizing over him.
DS1
January 3rd, 2013
1:18 pm
Reading all this talk about the logo for me is probably similar to most of you folks having to listen to my once every couple of years’ political rantings.
Not enjoyable.
What about them Braves???
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
1:18 pm
OD… hmm. Certainly sounds as if things are going well….
… then I remember how he came back from the oblique. Take your time,man!
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
1:19 pm
you obviously never saw Steve Bilko or Ted Kluszewski play, Simpson
Dum-Bass
January 3rd, 2013
1:22 pm
DYSOBWTSTIPM
Different year, same old Braves with the same totally inept pathetic manager! Mediocre is the best the Braves can be expected to attain.