Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,686 comments Add your comment
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:06 pm
then it would certainly be worth it.
In the context of a single year, perhaps. Acquiring the second Upton almost certainly means that McCann cannot be re-signed, or that a stud SP can be acquired the following year, or…well, you get the idea.
I’m leaning to the idea of keeping financial flexibility and letting Gattis fly. I’ve watched as much video of the guy as I can find, looking for reasons that his bat might not play, and I honestly haven’t seen much. He’s quick to the ball, no gimmickry in his setup, his head is still, base is sound, excellent use of his lower half…there’s plenty there to like. No telling how long it will take him to refine his pitch recognition against big leaguers, of course, but I don’t see much in his swing to hold him back.
(The disclaimer, naturally, is that there just isn’t that much video to see, period, LOL. I could be looking at the 30 best swings he’s ever taken, for all I know.)
cabravesfan
January 4th, 2013
3:07 pm
Also, VJ’s twitter comment was not in response to DOB’s post- rather it was a comment on the topic in general and various tweets on the subject.
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
3:07 pm
nolie, right. Pitcher wins are essentially a team stat. A player’s WAR, whatever you think of it, is clearly an attempt to measure contributions of an individual player.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:10 pm
except that upton is the better player. if they want to win, wouldnt they keep the better player?
besides, i dont think they should trade either one of them, if they plan on contending. they need to trade geraldo parra if they want to make room on the roster.
Who would play CF in that scenario? Cody Ross? Please. And they have Adam Eaton ready to play CF as well, plus Gerardo Parra. I know you don’t care about handedness in lineups, but GM’s do and Towers absolutely does. Cody Ross was signed so that Upton could be traded. Jason Kubel isn’t getting you very much in trade. Upton will and given that they have tried to trade him for 2-3 years, that tells you they see the warts in him as a player.
RC
January 4th, 2013
3:13 pm
It’s not the $10 mil for this year that concerns me. It’s the $14+ mil the next 2 years. We’d blow pretty much any flexibility going forward (having all our money committed, and all our prospects probably traded), and it would make decisions on McCann and Prado all the more difficult.
In my opinion, the decision on McCann has already been made. It’d be great if it wasn’t, but short of the NL suddenly deciding to add a DH I don’t see how he makes sense for this team on a long-term deal, and I don’t think it makes sense for him to sign anything OTHER than a long-term deal. Everything the same, the savings of his salary alone would cover what Upton would be owed.
But everything wouldn’t be the same. Arbitration will raise prices of players already on the payroll, making it more and more difficult for the team to fill out a roster with the funds it has. However, it does seem doable to me to add J Upton to the payroll and still be able to keep the young and upcoming players, by letting the following players leave when their contracts expire.
McCann – $12 million expires after 2013
Hudson – $9 million expires after 2013
Maholm – $6.5 million expires after 2013
O’Flaherty – ~$3.75m this year, but will be a free agent in 2013
Uggla – $13 million expires after 2015
There seems to be plenty of flexibility there to sign Prado to an extension, and then Heyward/Freeman/Simmons when the time comes (using money from Uggla’s salary). I know you have to replace those guys, but Hudson and Maholm should be replacable with young pitchers already in the org, and Uggla seems most likely to be replaced from within as well.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:13 pm
I agree that Ross was signed so that they could trade Upton if they get a reasonable chance to. Kinda funny, but ‘zona has developed a history of ripping it’s own players and then trading them off, sometimes for less than they are worth
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:13 pm
Trading Jason Kubel makes the D-Backs incredibly right handed. Goldschmidt, Hill, Upton, Ross – they will be eaten alive vs. RHP all season long. Gotta have some balance in the middle of your order and the D-Backs have very little with Montero being a catcher and Chavez being a platoon player who isn’t that great anyway.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:16 pm
Simmons’ upside offensively is probably somewhere around a career average Edgar Renteria season. Renteria hit .286/.343/.398.
I’ll be stunned if that’s all the bat Simmons comes up with on his upside.
RC
January 4th, 2013
3:16 pm
Efrim,
If you were trying to construct a package to bring Upton to Atlanta that would interest Arizona, who would you include?
We were talking about it a little earlier and I said I thought that 1 of Delgado or Teheran + Graham + Pastonicky + O’Flaherty or Venters would likely be the strongest offer the Braves would be willing to make. That’s a heck of a package, but I’m still not sure it’d be enough for Towers.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:17 pm
And I totally agree that Upton is the better player. He’s also more valuable in trade and it’s pretty clear that they dislike whatever he brings to the table. Towers is not an Upton guy. He goes out and signs Cody Ross(Cody…..Ross) to a three year deal just to replace the kid.
I mean, they just traded Trevor Bauer for an all glove, no bat SS prospect in Didi Gregorius. Towers wasn’t a Bauer guy either.
It honestly looks as if they are okay with getting worse from an industry perspective, and Towers will sell it that they weren’t fits for the Zona model/clubhouse.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:18 pm
Upton has had several years where he barely OPS 800 in a great hitter’s park, like DOB said we have to be a bit leery of what he would do log term in the Ted. It likely is not going to be the totals that y’all are all excited about,
Couch Tater
January 4th, 2013
3:20 pm
TennPaul –
Thanks! It’s my New Year’s resolution to re-evaluate some of these expenses. TV, Phone, Cell Phone and lower my yearly costs. They creep up over time and I’ve been too lazy to search for alternatives. I’m probably severing ties with the landline, too.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:20 pm
RC, if the choice came to having a second Upton or having Brian McCann, I don’t see how any right-thinking guy could choose Upton. To me, there’s no comparison.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:21 pm
I’ll be stunned if that’s all the bat Simmons comes up with on his upside.
I’ll say it again, if Andrelton Simmons is going to OPS .750-.780, then the Fangraphs folks of the world will be voting him in as the National League MVP based on the WAR statistic. Hands down. His defense is that valuable to them within that stat and at that position. If Simmons is going to provide more than an empty high batting average, then he is your National League MVP based on Wins Above Replacement.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:21 pm
286/.343/.398. I’ll be stunned if that’s all the bat Simmons comes up with on his upside…scoots
really? you think he will slug higher?
74bravesjersey
January 4th, 2013
3:22 pm
I as a fan would love to hear about something established for our Bravo Hitters that would & should really seek out the hitting Coaches, work on these very needful things offensively to have a consistent mindset, approach if you will, that the guys 1 thru 8, our Bench guys establish themselves to be well disciplined offensively, conditioned clutch performers offensively. Key word “Conditioned” which a number of guys are not, but can go to work from this point on to rid of bad habits from what they’ve had in the past. Man, it’s easier said than done, but why not? Cut down the strikeout avg.(s), makes some goals of from 150 k’s to 110 this year. We heard BJ at his media conference that he’s going to work on cutting down the k’s, I’m sure wren & the coaches have some programs in place. All this rambling I typed in probably doesn’t touch the surface what the Braves are going to implement this coming season, that would be Awesome, Just expressed what most hear would love to see how the team would perform for’13.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:24 pm
I am offended by the characterization of high batting averages as being empty. I am contacting the ACLU immediately
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:24 pm
RC, you are probably right on with that package. Towers likes diverse bullpens and reliever type prospects, so EOF/Venters and Graham make sense. Toss in one of Delgado or Teheran to compete with Skaggs at the #5 spot and that will be a solid offer.
Not sure if the Braves or the D-Backs would do it. Tough to say what they are asking for.
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
3:24 pm
I realize Justin Upton isn’t perfect and may not be an MVP type that many thought he might become. But it seems the Diamondbacks are missing something and are being impatient and looking at what he hasn’t become more than what he is and what he’s likely to be going forward.
It seems like he’s been around forever but he’s still only entering his age 25 season and has a career OPS+ of 117. I wouldn’t give up players as if he’s sure to be an MVP-type, superstar player. But I certainly wouldn’t mind the Braves taking a chance. It all depends on what they would have to give up, obviously. But I wouldn’t mind seeing the Braves get fairly aggressive, like giving up one of their top pitching prospects, like a Teheran or a Delgado, plus other solid prospects.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:24 pm
nolie, I think he’ll be a little higher in OBP and in SLG, both. He’s going to get some stronger, I think.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:26 pm
scoots, from your keyboard…….
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:26 pm
I am offended by the characterization of high batting averages as being empty. I am contacting the ACLU immediately
Heee.
Missed this place over the holidays. Won’t be around as much(which is probably still more than most) over the next few momths, but I love the conversation with you guys.
Gary O.
January 4th, 2013
3:26 pm
Thanks for the response DOB.
Fols
January 4th, 2013
3:28 pm
Hey I don’t have VJ’s Twitter to follow……..I don’t have any of your Twitter handles.
Great now I feel left out.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:29 pm
yeah you ran out on us for a while last year about this time ef, I assume it has to do with work
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:29 pm
I think he’ll be a little higher in OBP and in SLG, both. He’s going to get some stronger, I think.
An 8 win player. No joke. If he gets to .780. 8 WAR.
I’m a skeptic that he can do that with the bat, but I’ll be rooting for it. It’s not nearly as long of a swing as the scouting reports had said after watching him a bit. And he has a really good build right now and looks like he can add some.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2013
3:30 pm
Won’t be around as much(which is probably still more than most) over the next few momths
So, you’re a CPA…
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:30 pm
don’t Fols, only twits twitter
RC
January 4th, 2013
3:30 pm
ncscoots,
Up to this point in their careers, I’d agree with you that I’d take McCann over Upton every time. But that’s not really the choice that would have to be made. Starting in 2014, the choice would really be McCann for his age 30-34 year old seasons or Upton for his age 26 and 27 year old seasons, then $15 million for the next 3 years (not to mention getting to have BOTH of them for the 2013 season).
When looked at through that lens, I don’t see how one could objectively pick McCann.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:31 pm
yeah you ran out on us for a while last year about this time ef, I assume it has to do with work
Yup, it’s the busy season for me, noles. First half of the year is tough. But I’ll be here more often than last year, I hope. Not nearly as frequent as July – December.
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
3:31 pm
RC, if the choice came to having a second Upton or having Brian McCann, I don’t see how any right-thinking guy could choose Upton. To me, there’s no comparison.
I’m not so sure, when you consider both age and contract. It’s not so clear-cut when these things are factored in.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:33 pm
from your keyboard…….
Hey, I know his swing is a little long, and he’s apt to get a little antsy on some PAs, and he’s basically a rookie, and all that. I don’t know that he’s gonna be some .780 SS this year, I mean, but he has some hit tools and he supposedly is able to take instruction into the game fairly rapidly. I just think his offensive upside is a little higher than many here, I guess.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:33 pm
So, you’re a CPA…
Heee.
Those comments would lead you to believe that, but it’s the busy executional/planning season for the brands I work on(Digital Advertising), so I usually have to concentrate on that.
74bravesjersey
January 4th, 2013
3:34 pm
ncscoots; I like you’re assessment on Gattis, seems to show good plate presence, very savy as a hitter, I believe he battles in the count, his numbers show thus far.
RC
January 4th, 2013
3:34 pm
For my 3:30 pm post, I was assuming a 5-year contract for McCann next offseason at around $15 m a year. Probably should have put that in to start with.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:35 pm
Heyward, Freeman, Simmons – special core of 23 year olds.
Sadly, Heyward only has three years of control left and is 23 – insane.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2013
3:35 pm
Digital Advertising, does it bother you that I aim to block all digital advertisements from my life. Don’t take it personal. I was shunning them long before you had a crush on Heyward.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:36 pm
When looked at through that lens, I don’t see how one could objectively pick McCann.
That lens looks a little microscopic to me, maybe you’re looking throught the wrong end.
In any event, objective or no, McCann is still my choice. Call me crazy, but there it is.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2013
3:37 pm
Sadly, Heyward only has three years of control left and is 23 – insane.
Yep, should start putting up the .400 OBP right in his peak years, as a key member of some other team after signing as a free agent.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:38 pm
Yep, should start putting up the .400 OBP right in his peak years, as a key member of some other team after signing as a free agent.
Just hush with that, now.
RC
January 4th, 2013
3:42 pm
In any event, objective or no, McCann is still my choice. Call me crazy, but there it is.
Certainly not crazy. Just a fan. If the Braves were somehow able to keep McCann, the fan side of me will certainly be happy as well. I just don’t view it as a very smart business decision, based on what it would likely take.
Still kind of hope it happens though.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:43 pm
I kept saying they should keep Hey in AAA for a few months, but no y’all demanded he come up immediately, now he is a year closer to the Yankees than he shoulda been
RC
January 4th, 2013
3:46 pm
Digital Advertising. So Efrim is the guy who can tell us the “One Weird Old Trick to Lose Weight!”
Or maybe he’s the guy who “Personal Trainers HATE him!”
Serious request though: Get rid of the random dancing people telling me I can save money on my car insurance or home loan. They are annoying.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:46 pm
Digital Advertising, does it bother you that I aim to block all digital advertisements from my life. Don’t take it personal. I was shunning them long before you had a crush on Heyward.
You mean you don’t like those beautiful home page takeovers from brands you want nothing to do with????
Yeah, things are a changin in my field. Lots more social media and mobile marketing. They get you everywhere now and smarthpone technology has also changed the shopper experience. Fun stuff…..for me.
It certainly isn’t like MadMen though. Heading to the whiskey bottle after every meeting rarely occurs…..but it is rare and not non-existent.
RC
January 4th, 2013
3:47 pm
I kept saying they should keep Hey in AAA for a few months, but no y’all demanded he come up immediately, now he is a year closer to the Yankees than he shoulda been
We also made the playoffs that year by 1 game, so I think it was worth it.
jbailz23
January 4th, 2013
3:49 pm
DOB – It’s always a good time for Johnny Cash to set the record straight!
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:50 pm
I just don’t view it as a very smart business decision, based on what it would likely take.
But aren’t you basing most of that on a projected degradation of McCann’s offense due to age, rather than a projection of Upton 2 reverting to some semblance of his previous performance? I mean, folks here talk about McCann as if he were 33, not 28, LOL. If he breaks down again this year, I might start buying that his health is a risk going forward. But one certainly can’t say that his offensive skillset is one that will suddenly tumble off the age cliff; he’s too good at too many things in the box.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:50 pm
Serious request though: Get rid of the random dancing people telling me I can save money on my car insurance or home loan. They are annoying.
So those are ad serving companies and media buying companies to get mad at. They place that stuff and those ads are not from ad agencies that can put together smart, engaging digital executions.
Honestly, a lot has changed and I am not an older guy. I haven’t been in the industry that long and technology changes so rapidly that it is difficult to keep up. I love it though. More and more as time goes by.
I still wish I was working in baseball, but that’s okay, because this is really my second passion. Or fifth after Niners, Penguins and Bulls.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:53 pm
no proof that we wouldn’t have made it anyway.
I don’t think it was worth it since he will be better from now on than he was that season most likely
actually I think it is almost never worth it
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
3:54 pm
I would expect Heyward’s best seasons to be right around the time he hits free agency or a little after, as it typical for a player that will hit free agency at around age 27.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:54 pm
Pointyball picks:
Bengals over Texans
Packers over Vikings
Ravens over Colts
Seahawks over Skins
nolie
January 4th, 2013
3:55 pm
exactly why I would want him an extra season at that point in his career Shaun
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
3:56 pm
actually I think it is almost never worth it
Never worth it. How many wins are we talking here? 1-2? He was 20, and they are lucky he performed that well the first two months. It’s really never worth it.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
3:59 pm
It’s really never worth it.
Just keep ‘em all at AAA until they are Rule V eligible, LOL. Make sure you get all their prime years under club control.
cabravesfan
January 4th, 2013
4:00 pm
Efrim-
I’ll agree with the Bengals (mainly because Houston has looked really bad lately- I do think they are the better team) and the Packers
I’m taking the Colts (again, Baltimore is probably much better, but they have not been playing well lately) and the Skins (The Seahawks are really bad on the road)
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:01 pm
6 weeks scoots
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
4:02 pm
nolie, I guess it’s a tough judgement to make. The Braves barely made the playoffs in 2010. So it’s possible they don’t if Heyward’s not up for the entire 2010 season. If that’s the case, it was probably worth calling him up for the whole 2010 season. But we can never know if they would or wouldn’t have. I tend to think they wouldn’t have. But maybe the player(s) that were there instead of Heyward would have played out of their minds for a month or two until Heyward was up. And maybe the long-term benefits of keeping Heyward in the minors for at least a month or two would have been worth the risk of any sort of hit in the team’s 2010 win total.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
4:02 pm
Just keep ‘em all at AAA until they are Rule V eligible, LOL. Make sure you get all their prime years under club control.
Prospect eligible too, scoots. And we need that talent for the org. lists. That trophy is so much better to have than that World Series one.
rico carty
January 4th, 2013
4:05 pm
I like Brian McCann but if Wren can bring Justin Upton to Atlanta, I wouldn’t feel a need to resign McCann. With Upton in the lineup we could afford to start a young catcher (Bethancourt) or platoon him with a inexpensive vet–not necessarily Laird. McCann can’t catch forever–eventually, he’ll have to find another position (and where would that be in Atlanta?) or be a DH in the AL. McCann is an average defensive catcher at best and given the rigors of the position, he can’t be expected to improve. Justin Upton is only 25 and he could take off in a potent Atlanta lineup and playing next to his brother. Wren should do everything possible to bring him to Atlanta.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2013
4:05 pm
It certainly isn’t like MadMen though. Heading to the whiskey bottle after every meeting rarely occurs…..but it is rare and not non-existent
pbshhh. I hit the bottle after every post.
And here comes another snort.
VaBravesFan
January 4th, 2013
4:05 pm
To me a Justin Upton addition puts us out in front for the division. Definitely someone who puts us over the top. No more question marks about 3B and LF..
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:06 pm
you have to make the decision without hindsight obviously, I would almost always take the extra year at his prime than one season less and it as a rook, especially on a team like the Braves which has a pretty good chance of getting there every year.
If I had an old team which looked like it might have just one last chance for a while I might go for it, but with the Braves and similar teams prolly never
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
4:08 pm
Were I an agent, I’d burn those six weeks into my player’s mind forever, nolie. As a player, I’d refuse arb every year, make them renew me unilaterally. I’d spit on extension talks. I’d remind them every day that, when you had the chance, you decided to cost me money, and that I planned to make them eat that choice.
I’d make Lastings Milledge look like a p***y.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:08 pm
I think y’all are over rating what Justin would do in Atlanta. Most likely a bit speedier Prado minus the intangibles that make up much of his value
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
4:09 pm
cab, I think the read option offense that the Seahawks are running has completely changed the way they move the ball on offense. Wilson runs it to perfection. They absolutely struck gold with him. Their 2012 draft class(Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, Robert Turbin) was close to as good as our 2011 draft class(Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter). Special young team, imo that is lined up to go 8-0 or 7-1 every single year during this run with that home field advantage. Gotta imagine they can go 4-4 some years on the road. That’s good enough for a bye most all years.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
4:14 pm
I love Justin Upton. But I don’t like the idea of having the brothers in Atlanta together. Would of rather traded for Justin and signed a CF free agent not named Upton and kept the pick.
By the way, why does every other team love their draft picks except us? No mid-market teams give up picks like we do. None. I guess it’s the price for being good over the last four years, but yikes, it’s just hard to justify.
74bravesjersey
January 4th, 2013
4:14 pm
Man, The dual hitting Coaches that are working well for the Giants, Hensley Meulens,Hitting Coach; Joe Lefebvre asst, hitting Coach, have really nailed it in for the Giants in the past 3 yrs. I commend them for their success. I’m glad the Bravos are trying the same approach w/ Walkn’Fletch. Now Hope the Bravo Hitters will follow suit & do likewise, as far as getting on the same page, some that have looked lost up there at the plate have renewed focus in hitting approach. Clutch it’ up in 13′ Baby!
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:14 pm
I did not really cost you any money scoots except 6 weeks worth, I simply made sure I got an extra year of control. If you are as goof as I think you are that I want to do that, you will still make a ton of money in those three arb years
VaBravesFan
January 4th, 2013
4:15 pm
Even during Justin’s down years he’s still maintained his OBP while his power seemed to be up and down. Even playing in Atlanta I still see him being a 20/20 guy who produces a OPS over 800. He also sports a career 117 OPS+
Current Players
Career OPS+
BJ 105
Freeman 113
Heyward 116
Prado 109
McCann 117
Uggla 113
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:16 pm
Even playing in Atlanta I still see him being a 20/20 guy who produces a OPS over 800.
there have been a number of years where he has not even done that in ‘zona
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:18 pm
he is a 731 OPS hitter away from home, even if he adds 50 points to that after adjusting it is not worth what a lot of folks here are willing to trade for him
VaBravesFan
January 4th, 2013
4:18 pm
He’s only 25 years old with massive tools, if we can be optimistic enough about BJ Upton doing better than 242 AVG 316 OBP like he has the past 4 years, we should be extremely optimistic that he’d continue to play at a high level.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:22 pm
the difference is that BJ is coming to a park about the same as what he left (and not all of us are all that optimistic about it anyway), Justin would be leaving one of the best hitting parks in baseball for a park that is much less friendly
VaBravesFan
January 4th, 2013
4:22 pm
nolie
I guess I’m just a bigger Upton fan than most, since I’m from where they are and have kept up with them when they were in high school and such. You make valid points and I can see the concern tho.
VaBravesFan
January 4th, 2013
4:25 pm
Still say go get em! If the price isn’t too crazy
I do like Efrim’s thought tho, I wish we’d have traded for Justin and did something else in CF. Regardless there’s no way to say Justin Upton for 3 years 39 million isn’t a big bargain. We’d just have to say good bye to some youngins.
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
4:25 pm
Were I an agent, I’d burn those six weeks into my player’s mind forever, nolie. As a player, I’d refuse arb every year, make them renew me unilaterally. I’d spit on extension talks. I’d remind them every day that, when you had the chance, you decided to cost me money, and that I planned to make them eat that choice.
I’m not sure if a player could refuse arbitration or if that would gain anything for him. I guess he would have to accept the team’s offer and they would certainly low-ball him, obviously costing him. This would be all fine and dandy, assuming that the player doesn’t get hurt or something doesn’t happen, like a significant injury, before he hits free agency. But if I were an agent, I’d just advise my player to get as much as you can before free agency, because you can’t guarantee health and a career beyond your current contract.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:26 pm
I’m not saying that he is not a pretty good player though I think the totals he puts up in ‘zona turn a lot of folk’s heads some, I am saying that I do not think he is worth what many here seem willing to give up; some are suggesting whatever it takes no matter the cost.
also with a BA degree in Personel Management and Industrial Psych, I remember a million lectures about the potential pitfalls of havinf family working together. If something goes wrong with the weaker link there is a pretty bif chance that it will infect the relationship with the better one to some extent
DAP
January 4th, 2013
4:28 pm
ward where in the line up would you put Justin Upton
4th.
scoots Is it $10MM better than Gattis at the end of the other 7 guys, though? I’m not so sure.
id say yes. especially since there is room in the payroll, and its not like they distribute the money to the top 100 blog posters from 2012, if they dont spend it.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:29 pm
distribute the money to the top 100 blog posters from 2012, if they dont spend it….DAP
great idea though…..
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
4:29 pm
Shaun, no one gave you the humor gene for Christmas?
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
4:29 pm
Justin’s 117 OPS+ accounts for him playing home games in a hitter-friendly park. So, given his age and barring injury or something, we certainly shouldn’t expect him to post an OPS+ much below 117 over the next few seasons, regardless of where he plays. In fact, we should probably expect his OPS+ to be at least a little higher than that over the next several seasons, perhaps noticeably higher.
cabravesfan
January 4th, 2013
4:29 pm
Efrim-
They aren’t going undefeated at home every year, especially in the vastly improved (if you subtract the Cardinals) NFC West (yes, even the Rams are getting better). I’m just not sold on them having to win 3 games in a row on the road to get to the Super Bowl
DAP
January 4th, 2013
4:31 pm
efrim Cody Ross was signed so that Upton could be traded.
see, now there is a statement that doesnt make sense. to me anyways. i guess towers just really wants to dump upton, if he is getting cody ross in order to make him available.
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
4:31 pm
ncscoots, sorry. Sarcasm is not so easy to pick up from just black letters on a white background.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:32 pm
Justin’s 117 OPS+ accounts for him playing home games in a hitter-friendly park.
Justin does not have an OPS+ in hitter friendly parks, he is a 730 OPS hitter in those, and he would lose all those games in Coors and ‘zona that make his totals shine . like I said prolly a Prado type hitter without all his favorable intangibles
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
4:34 pm
id say yes. especially since there is room in the payroll
But then isn’t the futher question going to be, “Is the team better with Upton 2 and Bethancourt or with McCann and Gattis?”
Based on available information to date, I got to go with the latter.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:34 pm
is there really much question after all this time and all the on-again off-again attempts but that Towers really wants him gone for whatever reasons?
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
4:34 pm
DAP, signing Cody Ross in the first place didn’t make any sense when they had Jason Kubel, Justin Upton, Adam Eaton, Gerardo Parra and AJ Pollack as their outfield depth. Trading Trevor Bauer for Didi Gregorius didn’t make any sense either. Towers isn’t going with the industry here. He’s after clubhouse chem. and getting rid of players that aren’t his guys. I think Upton is a goner.
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
4:36 pm
the difference is that BJ is coming to a park about the same as what he left (and not all of us are all that optimistic about it anyway), Justin would be leaving one of the best hitting parks in baseball for a park that is much less friendly
Turner Field is less pitcher-friendly than the Trop.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
4:37 pm
Sarcasm is not so easy to pick up from just black letters on a white background.
You’ve been here, what, six or seven years? You really should be able to pick up on that stuff now, LOL.
But, in any event, happy new year to you and yours. I think this is the first time we’ve both been here in 2013, so, glad tidings.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
4:39 pm
They aren’t going undefeated at home every year, especially in the vastly improved (if you subtract the Cardinals) NFC West (yes, even the Rams are getting better). I’m just not sold on them having to win 3 games in a row on the road to get to the Super Bowl
Okay, lots of 6-2 and 7-1 seasons at home with that sort of team. And I get that the Rams are really talented too. Just a different animal to go up there and play against a good team with that crowd noise.
I do not believe they will win the Super Bowl. 3 games on the road is too much for a team that young. But we’re just talking one win against an overrated Redskins team(because of injuries on defense, I believe) with a hurt QB. I won’t pick them vs. the Niners or Falcons on the road.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
4:45 pm
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/01/04/theo-epstein-on-why-a-second-round-pick-matters/
Theo Epstein on why a second-round pick matters
“There aren’t multiple paths into the amateur marketplace anymore. In the past, you could give up a high pick and realize you were going to overpay someone later on. You could give up a couple draft picks and realize that you’d just go out and try to dominate international free agency that year. You just don’t have the ability to do those things anymore,” said Epstein
However, he does say….
“You can’t be dogmatic about it. Clearly, there are major-league free agents who are talented enough to justify surrendering a first-round pick and certainly a second-round pick,” said Epstein. “It all depends on – not just the player – but the contract and then potentially what you could get out of the player in terms of contributions on the field or a potential trade down the road.”
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:45 pm
hey one year the Trop was 17th and theTed was 26th shaun, but yean in general Ted is neatral and the Trop pitcher friendly.
I do actually hope that BJ will pick it up in Atl, but what I most want to see him improve in is OBP and that is less park related that some other stats IMO.
Like I said, my point is more about trade costs than that he is not a decent hitter. Get me a reasonable deal and I am great with it, but not what some here are saying.
I still do have reservations about two brothers on the same team, especially when bot have a bit of a rep for stubbornness and hot headedness, but stats don’t have any play there at all
cabravesfan
January 4th, 2013
4:46 pm
Should be fun to watch, regardless…sticking with the Skins, though
Shaun
January 4th, 2013
4:48 pm
ncscoots, happy new year to you, as well. And to all.
Efrim, yeah, I think they realize they can reload by trading Upton. He has the youth and the skills and some history of a past performance that would allow them to get a return of significance but at the same time he’s only one player with some deficiencies who hasn’t quite lived up to what some expected.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
4:49 pm
I guess the Braves never used to spend big in the draft anyway, so this isn’t that crazy of a shift for them. It almost makes it easier for them to give away draft picks. I guess we’ll just have to see what it does to their farm system over time. I know that it’s already hurt their org., but I’m talking it starting to reflect on their major league team – that’s when it gets a bit more serious. If you’re lucky enough to win with a crappy farm system, then it will be okay – Chicago White Sox and Detroit Tigers have historically had a bad farm system, but continue to win.
Efrim
January 4th, 2013
4:54 pm
Does anyone read Nick Piecoro? I know DOB has posted his articles here before. He’s their DOB for the Zona Republic, I believe. Ask him why the D-Backs are trading him. No clue is the answer, from a baseball standpoint. Doesn’t make any bit of sense, but Towers doesn’t like him at all so he’s the GM and gets to pull the trigger. Owner loves Towers too. So again, thank your lucky stars we have Frank Wren who values production moreso, imo. Towers is not someone I’d want to run my club….
But, if he wins the World Series this year – he is the bestest GM ever. That’s the way it goes. 11 wins in the month of October and every single move you’ve made to date doesn’t matter one bit to some. Hence, Brian Sabean is the bestest GM ever.
And please, spare me the “baseball front office folks are the smartest people ever”. Obviously, they know what they are doing – but I do not believe that they are all equal and I am sure as heck glad we have Frank Wren and not Sabean or Colletti. Damn the rings they’ve won.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:57 pm
I think that we should expect the farm system to be weak now as much as we have mined it the last several seasons for such good talent, and as most of the tears they pick very late to begin with. I was not happy though when Wren brought in his guys and I am still not happy after seeing pretty much the approach that I was afraid of seeing. I hope it picks back up.
nolie
January 4th, 2013
4:59 pm
I know that one of the ‘zona writers was VERY negative about Justin though I don’t remember which one it was Ef
ncscoots
January 4th, 2013
4:59 pm
And please, spare me the “baseball front office folks are the smartest people ever”. Obviously, they know what they are doing – but I do not believe that they are all equal
Just remember that only great men get to make great mistakes; fools are never given the opportunity.
(I don’t know if this applies to baseball owners, however. Opportunity to make great mistakes in that area is more a function of money than greatness, LOL)