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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,686 comments Add your comment
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2013
5:27 pm
Let me make that a little more clear- deciding to read or not read a post has nothing to do with correcting an error in fact.
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
5:29 pm
see y’all later dudes and dudesses…
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
5:30 pm
I am pretty sure that Harold is Lou, Murph. I doubt you can make him cry.
Lou has no soul… but that won’t stop me from trying.
Voice of Harold
January 3rd, 2013
5:31 pm
Murph,
you’re in no danger of making me cry. I’ll be alright. But, I and others were talking about the lack of civility and general concern for others well being that seems lacking in society as a whole, and your blog posts in particular. If you feel comfortable saying “I don’t give a rat’s arse about what other people think or feel”, then I’d say that’s incredibly insensitive. There are other adjectives I could use, but I would hope you get the point.
Voice of Harold
January 3rd, 2013
5:32 pm
I plead ignorance. Who is Lou?
Voice of Harold
January 3rd, 2013
5:32 pm
Later, nolie.
Shaun
January 3rd, 2013
5:36 pm
Harold, I just love baseball information. If someone can provide a better way to get a snapshot of a player, to get loads of information in one fell swoop without stats, I would be glad to go with something other than stats because I don’t feel I have a knack for math. Perhaps I’m better at it than I realize but I still add on my fingers, to be honest.
But math, stats, numbers as information and language is a helpful approach for me. Not all information is good information, so it’s a matter of examining your assumptions and biases and interpreting the information as best you can in ways that actually reflect reality.
Often times numbers do this better than anything else (unfortunately for those of us who don’t feel like we have a knack for math). There is just no language as precise as looking at a player’s stats from 2012 and, for instance, seeing that he was a firstbaseman playing his home games in a neutral park and that he hit .259/.340/.456.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
5:37 pm
The Diamondbacks are once again “very much open” to discussing Upton trades… and their demands have reportedly changed, although there’s no indication as to what they’ve changed to.
Simmons
Prado
Heyward
Upton
Freeman
Upton
McCann
Uggla
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
5:39 pm
If you feel comfortable saying “I don’t give a rat’s arse about what other people think or feel”, then I’d say that’s incredibly insensitive.
Well, obviously, if I were incredibly insensitive, I wouldn’t give a rat’s arse about what you think as far as whether I’m indeed incredibly insensitive or not… so… wait… ah… well, ok, your point is proven. I am incredibly insensitive.
Oh well.
Shaun
January 3rd, 2013
5:41 pm
Of course baseball language, if you will, is not limited to the appropriate statistics. That’s just a huge chunk of it. There’s also information about tools and positional profiles and all sorts of things that go in to even the basics of baseball language. I think that’s what makes it so fun. It allows us to escape in to almost this entire foreign world within the real world.
Nick
January 3rd, 2013
5:44 pm
Trade Ahmed, Bethancourt, Venters, and Delgado to AZ for Upton. Without a LF of his caliber, this ATL team will be below average.
Shaun
January 3rd, 2013
5:50 pm
Trade Ahmed, Bethancourt, Venters, and Delgado to AZ for Upton. Without a LF of his caliber, this ATL team will be below average.
I’m all for going after Justin Upton aggressively and all but below average? If McCann bounces back to something remotely close to his career norms and if everyone else plays to their normal expected skill levels, based on ages, etc., the Braves should approach a win total in the high 80’s to low 90’s.
fairbrave
January 3rd, 2013
5:53 pm
Would anybody trade Prado straight up for Justin Upton?
Nick
January 3rd, 2013
5:54 pm
high 80s to low 90s doesn’t win divisions and counting on 3-4 players having miraculous turnarounds is unrealistic.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2013
5:55 pm
Trade Ahmed, Bethancourt, Venters, and Delgado to AZ for Upton. Without a LF of his caliber, this ATL team will be below average.
How does a team go from 94 wins to being below average, after seeing Chipper Jones retire, replacing Michael Bourn with a 30-30-type (albeit with a low OBP) in Justin Upton, and likely getting at least marginably better (and perhaps significantly better) production at SS, C and 2B than it got the previous season, when players at those positions missed significant time due to injuries and/or had career-worst seasons well before what should be the downside of their careers? Rotation should be as strong or stronger, bullpen as strong or stronger.
Nick
January 3rd, 2013
5:55 pm
fairbrave – YES! I would have traded Simmons straight up for him too though.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
5:56 pm
If McCann bounces back to something remotely close to his career norms and if everyone else plays to their normal expected skill levels, based on ages, etc., the Braves should approach a win total in the high 80’s to low 90’s.
Gotta do better than that if they want to avoid the play-in game… hell, high 80’s/low 90’s might not even get the team into the play-in game.
Voice of Harold
January 3rd, 2013
5:57 pm
In general, I agree with you, Shaun. I’m just cautious when making a player’s numbers the “end-all be-all” of that player’s ability. I tend to look as much at how hard a player plays, his decision-making, as much as the raw numbers. Tough to quantify really.
And I agree with you on Nick’s comment. No way we are “below average” as currently constituted.
Nowhere man
January 3rd, 2013
5:59 pm
Ken the name of the doc is The Union.
Nick
January 3rd, 2013
6:01 pm
DOB – Agree BP will be superb. Rotation worries me for obvious reasons and a lineup with 3 or 4 150 strikeout guys won’t win many games IMO. Last years 94 win team lost its leader and arguably most consistent hitter in Chipper Jones and lost its leadoff hitter in Michael Bourn and replaced him with a guy who can’t get on base. Oh, and they still don’t have an everyday LF. Too many question marks on this team to lead me to believe they will finish anywhere close to 85 wins (average-below average).
ncbravesfan90
January 3rd, 2013
6:05 pm
“The Diamondbacks are once again “very much open” to discussing Upton trades… and their demands have reportedly changed, although there’s no indication as to what they’ve changed to.”
According to reports the Diamondbacks are no longer asking for a shortstop in return for Upton. So we should match up much better on a trade with the DBacks now that they are not demanding a shortstop in return.
Bill M.
January 3rd, 2013
6:06 pm
I love the Old Braves Logo, wish they would use them all the time.I think all of the Native American logo’s shows their fighting spirit. I’m sick and tired of everything we say or do is polititcalley incorrect. About 7yrs. ago I started out on mission to research my family. I didn’t know much about my family, boy oh boy did I uncover a bunch. First I found that the name given to me at birth was wrong. Should have been another name. My grandpa changed his name before he married as he was born out of wedlock. There was murders and alot of other stuff in my family. My cousin just found out that her grandmother was not Native American but part African American. So if you don’t know about your family start researching it’s fun. I have indian bloog in me and I see nothing racist in the logo. Go Braves!!!!
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
6:11 pm
team isn’t below avg… not enough to catch the Nats imo, but still a good team. 88-90 wins. Problem is, Nats probably win 95+. We haven’t really replaced Bourn by adding BJ (based in value in runs)… Chipper shouldn’t be too hard to replace since he missed so much time
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
6:14 pm
I’ve got Qs on the rotation, but we’ll see… solid, but not exceptional. A bit better than average, I’d say, we’ve got a good collection of mid-rotation guys. No top guy who “scares” the competition…. or throws 92+
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
6:18 pm
There was a report on XM earlier this evening that both the Rangers and the Braves are in on JUpton.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
6:20 pm
No top guy who “scares” the competition…. or throws 92+
All we need (like it’s a small thing) is for our starters to get through the 5th/6th innings. Best bullpen in baseball with plenty of giddyup.
Tennbravesfan
January 3rd, 2013
6:21 pm
Fairbrave – If ATL can sign Prado to an extension, then NO I don’t trade him for Upton. In my opinion Martin Prado is one of the most valuable players in all of baseball. However, if Prado isn’t gonna get signed, then I trade 1 year of Prado for 3 of Upton. On a different note, Richard Justice on the MLB network just said he has Murphy on his Hall ballot.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
6:22 pm
There was a report on XM earlier this evening that both the Rangers and the Braves are in on JUpton.
I know the price is going to be high, but I don’t see how the Braves can not go after J Upton with everything they’ve got. He’d completely change the landscape of the offense, take a lot of pressure off of certain players, etc.
keyLargo.
January 3rd, 2013
6:23 pm
14 States have Indian populations of over 100,000 but GA is not one of them. FL yes.
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
6:25 pm
And NO, I don’t trade Prado – straight up or as part of a ackage for anyone. Sign him top a four year deal and be done with it. You’re not going to find a better third baseman out there.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
6:26 pm
There was a report on XM earlier this evening that both the Rangers and the Braves are in on JUpton.
Nice…. but I can’t see us beating the Rangers. They’re desperate! Teheran, EOF/JV, and another prospect… Juan or Terdo? Nice start
Phil Sheridan
January 3rd, 2013
6:26 pm
The only good Indians I saw were dead.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
6:28 pm
Sign him top a four year deal and be done with it.
five…. but if only it were that easy. He’s got to agree to it to. Likely meaning he can’t be a yo-yo
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
6:30 pm
best bullpen in the game didn’t catch us up to the Nats….3 insanely good streaks got us within 5 games. Can’t count on that happening again. And their ‘pen is pretty good too.
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
6:31 pm
TOBF – Just because you keep beating a drum doesn’t make it so. There is not a damned thing wrong with Prado playing mulitple positions. He has every year he’s been in the bigs, will again this year for the Brave, will every year of any extension he signs with the Braves and will with whatever team he signs with if not the Braves.
It’s a strength and not a weakness and has not been an issue with him ever.
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
6:33 pm
Actually, had the Braves beaten the Nats twice more last season, they’d have tied for the Division lead.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
6:40 pm
Nats get Ramos back…. better than Flores and Suzuki…. Strasburg for a full year, Harper as well… Span in CF, giving them the leadoff hitter they need, and good defense. Upgraded their rotation by adding Haren over EJax.
We have Simmons for a full season, Medlen and Minor (but doubtful they will be as good for the full season as they were for the 2nd half… ERAs around 2 or lower), McCann should bounce back, and we lost production (runs wise) in CF. Chipper’s value shouldn’t be too hard replaceable, since he missed games. Despite the bad year at the plate in the 2nd half for Uggla, he still was worth nearly the same # of runs for the season as he averaged for his career… the walks helped.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
6:42 pm
but the season should be fun…. Braves Nats… start winning on Mondays and beat the Nats a few more games. Beat up on the Phils, Mets, and Fish. Looking forward to it.
kenhotlanta
January 3rd, 2013
6:48 pm
Voice of Harold: Murph is a pimp for Rally Strippers…you might not want to mess with him. He knows people.
Voice of Harold
January 3rd, 2013
6:54 pm
Hah!. I have no idea what that means, but I’m sure it’s hilarious.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
6:54 pm
If the Braves were able to land Upton they’d be more competitive with the Nats… at first… but… they’d have to give up a lot to get him. Delgado? Teheran? Both are likely to make double-digit starts for the Braves this season. Giving them up would also leave the team with basically nothing to trade at the deadline.
Talk about going all-in.
kenhotlanta
January 3rd, 2013
7:01 pm
BFChris28: Confederate Railroad is a country band from Marietta, GA and had some hits in the 80’s and 90’s.
The Kentucky Headhunters had one hit album in 1989 that had boogie-rock leanings and they have never came close to that sound or success. And they may not even be the original members.
John Anderson had the original massive hit “Swingin’” and ha shad a very good country career with lots of hits. His voice has a ‘twang’ that you either like or you don’t.
I am not familiar with Randy Houser, except he sings country.
Sounds like a crowd pleasing show for the masses.
JoeFan
January 3rd, 2013
7:01 pm
Wren’s been burned to many times by over paying for players. He want go all in for Upton and mortgage the future. He will see what he has in Gattis before he makes any trades and that likely means late March.
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
7:01 pm
Murph is a pimp for Rally Strippers…you might not want to mess with him. He knows people.
Don’t make me invoke The Hanna Rule.
I’ll do it.
ncbravesfan90
January 3rd, 2013
7:02 pm
“If the Braves were able to land Upton they’d be more competitive with the Nats… at first… but… they’d have to give up a lot to get him. Delgado? Teheran? Both are likely to make double-digit starts for the Braves this season. Giving them up would also leave the team with basically nothing to trade at the deadline.”
The locks in the rotation are Medlen, Minor, Hudson, and Maholm…that leaves one spot left for either Teheran or Delgado, not both. If you send either one of them back to Gwinnett for the third year there at Gwinnett their trade value takes a huge hit. Not to mention that Beachy comes back around the all star break which means they both could be in AAA at that point. Therefore, I think Wren trades one of them before Spring Training.
George_George
January 3rd, 2013
7:02 pm
Murph
January 3rd, 2013
5:37 pm
The Diamondbacks are once again “very much open” to discussing Upton trades… and their demands have reportedly changed, although there’s no indication as to what they’ve changed to.
Simmons
Prado
Heyward
Upton
Freeman
Upton
McCann
Uggla
**************
Murph
Your posts are great , but PLEASE one UPTON is one to many. The BRAVES got SCREWED on the BJ signing. He will hit in the high .230s to low .240s with 10 to 15 HRS 55 RBIs, another NATE THE GREAT.
George_George
January 3rd, 2013
7:09 pm
Lew
January 3rd, 2013
6:25 pm
And NO, I don’t trade Prado – straight up or as part of a ackage for anyone. Sign him top a four year deal and be done with it. You’re not going to find a better third baseman out there
**********************************************************************************************
AGREED , most likely the best all round position player on the team.
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2013
7:09 pm
George_George-
BJ has averaged 18.8 home runs a year for the last 6 years (which covers his full seasons in the league) and 23 his last 3 seasons. What makes you think he won’t hit for power anymore?
As for RBI, his average over 6 seasons is 70.8 and 73.6 over the last 3. Again, what makes you think they will be as bad as you claim?
George_George
January 3rd, 2013
7:17 pm
Hi cab
BJs best full seasons were his frist two BA .286 next four years BA .242 normaly a player of his age would be getting better not worse. It tells me AL pitchers found a flaw in his hitting, when NL pitchers find it, it will not be good.
BFChris28
January 3rd, 2013
7:18 pm
kenhotlanta
Thanks.
Should be a good festival this year.
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2013
7:20 pm
George_George-
That is not what I asked. His home runs have gone up each of the last 4 years and again, he has averaged over 73 RBI over the last 3 years. (62, 81, 78) so why do you think there will be such a drop in those numbers? THAT is what I asked…
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2013
7:22 pm
And NO, I don’t trade Prado – straight up or as part of a ackage for anyone. Sign him top a four year deal and be done with it. You’re not going to find a better third baseman out there
Now I’m a big Prado fan, but you can’t expect to get anything without giving up anything.
keyLargo.
January 3rd, 2013
7:24 pm
So many obviously do. Constanza and Schafer for Upton makes sense to them.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
7:24 pm
he won’t be that bad George…. no reason to expect him to get worse, he’s been consistent he last 3 years… . .242/.317/.436/.753 23 HR, 71 RBI… I could see his HR numbers going down, as he has usually hit most of them in a 2-3 week stretch, and may have gotten some in stadiums like Fenway and Yankee…. but no reason to expect that, even if Turner is hard to hit HR in. He is in his prime (for a year or two now), and may still get a bit better.
.240/.320/.440 22 HR, 75 RBI…
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
7:24 pm
I would not trade Prado even for Upton
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2013
7:29 pm
Well it’d be dumb to trade Prado, given that unless we got some weird 3B/LF combo for him we’d just be opening up another hole. Just saying….unless it’s Juan Cruz or Edgar Renteria, you usually won’t get much value for scrubs or aging expendable players.
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
7:33 pm
agreed Jeffrey, though Frank has skinned a GM a couple of times so far
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
7:36 pm
Sign him (Prado) to a four year deal and be done with it.
Just sign David Ross to a one or two year deal to stay in Atlanta and be done with it…. he wants to be here.
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
7:38 pm
just sign Chipper to an extension for a coupla years….
Nowhere man
January 3rd, 2013
7:39 pm
Chipper is busy ripping the Gators on Twitter.
Wes Jorga
January 3rd, 2013
7:39 pm
Is it wrong to assume that Fredi will be better this year?
Nowhere man
January 3rd, 2013
7:40 pm
Where is Bourn going to end up?
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
7:41 pm
if I tweeted I’d rip the Gators too
Nowhere man
January 3rd, 2013
7:43 pm
We have to hope Fredi will be better. He has never won a playoff game.
Nowhere man
January 3rd, 2013
7:43 pm
We have to hope Fredi will be better. He has never won a playoff game.
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
7:43 pm
I didn’t think Fredi was all that bad last year
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
7:46 pm
spear and chop the Gators….
Nowhere man
January 3rd, 2013
7:48 pm
I see, it okay to rip the gators but not okay to rip Chipper for throwing away a playoff game.
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
7:51 pm
the Gators are not a person in case you didn’t notice that
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
7:54 pm
only you would come up with such a comparison
It is like ripping the Phils, if you wanna rip them I ain’t gonna complain. sigh
George_George
January 3rd, 2013
7:55 pm
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2013
7:22 pm
AWW jeffrey, PRADO for J UPTON ? Oh PLEASE NO WAY.
George_George
January 3rd, 2013
7:58 pm
I believe the BRAVES mostly because of good pitching will be over a 90 win team again this year.
HooRah
January 3rd, 2013
7:59 pm
You are wasting your time with that schmuck noles
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
7:59 pm
one always hopes……
Wes Jorga
January 3rd, 2013
7:59 pm
I thought Fredi lost games by unneccesarily putting marginal relievers in high leverage situations. He did improve as the year progressed. His lack of faith in Heyward was scarey.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2013
8:00 pm
SOUTH OF THE BORDER
No news yet from DOMINICA or MEXICO.
No BRAVES playing in PUERTO RICO.
VENEZUELA
LARA CARDINALS
LHSP YOHAN FLANDE on the bump tonight. Two strong innings so far.
C JOSE YEPEZ pulling an O’fer to this point.
ZULIA EAGLES
1B ERNESTO MEJIA 0-1, 1 SO bottom of the first.
EL OSO BLANCO not in the line-up. What’s up with that?
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
8:02 pm
and the year before he was lambasted for using his good receivers too much. someone can complain about either approach
nolie
January 3rd, 2013
8:04 pm
Gattis is gone rich, not playing any more there this winter
Hugo Z Hackenbush
January 3rd, 2013
8:04 pm
Mmmm…believe Gattis is done with winter ball.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2013
8:06 pm
Several on here will cook up any old trade scenerio and throw it out there willy-nilly. I’ve given up trying to make sense of it, or provide rational analysis to them. I just leave them alone.
ncbravesfan90
January 3rd, 2013
8:07 pm
From MLB Trade Rumors:
The Braves and Mariners have inquired on Upton along with the Rangers, major league sources tell Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. One source said that Atlanta “made strong overtures” for Upton earlier in the offseason but came away thinking that the Diamondbacks were not motivated to trade him.
And from Rotoworld:
FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi report that the Rangers, Mariners and Braves have all “expressed strong interest” in Justin Upton.
The Rangers, of course, have long held interest in the talented outfielder, and the Mariners were mentioned earlier Thursday by ESPN’s Buster Olney as a potential landing spot. The Braves reportedly dropped out of the Upton sweepstakes last month after the D’Backs insisted that Andrelton Simmons was part of the deal, but Arizona has other needs now after the acquisition of Didi Gregorius. The report notes, though, that the D’Backs “continue to send mixed signals about their intentions” regarding Upton, as some believe they’re still more likely to deal Jason Kubel. They’ll almost surely trade one or the other.
George_George
January 3rd, 2013
8:07 pm
Nite all.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2013
8:08 pm
Thanx guys….hadn’t caught that change on GATTIS’ status.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2013
8:10 pm
And I approve. Time for some R&R before ST. Keep in shape, do some BP. Make sure that wrist is completely healed.
keyLargo.
January 3rd, 2013
8:11 pm
I heard the Braves shut Gattis down due to an agreement made before he left for Venez.
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2013
8:11 pm
I guess George_george didn’t want to tell us why he thinks BJ Upton will have such a drop in power or RBIs this year…
richbrave
January 3rd, 2013
8:16 pm
Looks to me as if MEJIA stays in VENEZUELA because he’s a native playing in his country’s baseball league. I wonder if he might also have been called home except for that. Obvious to me, the BRAVES are very serious about GATTIS’ role on the big club in 2013. They wanted him home, rested, and ready for ST.
TheOnlyBravesFan
January 3rd, 2013
8:16 pm
what exactly do the Snakes want? Already got their SP in McCarthy, and a SS in Didi… and imo they almost have to move Upton… a LH reliever and a top prospect to replace Bauer? Maybe a 3B?
JasonInFL
January 3rd, 2013
8:19 pm
Yes, it will be hard to replace Chipper’s production despite the fact that he missed some games.
Mark
January 3rd, 2013
8:21 pm
BJ will hit a few HRs but will strike out at least 180 times. Thats a little over 6 and as half games of Ks just for BJ. Then you have to add in Uggs 6 games worth…
We will set the major league record this next year for Ks by one team! Since Ks don’t seem to be a concern we should go ahead and sign Bourn for 1 year and fill it with incentives. He would be a better fit than the nothing we have in left presently.
JasonInFL
January 3rd, 2013
8:26 pm
Chipper was still top 10 3B in WAR and was top 8 in wRC+. He also was in the top 7 in OPS and top 3 in OBP.
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2013
8:27 pm
BJ will hit a few HRs but will strike out at least 180 times.
He’s never struck out that many times in a season- why do you think he will now? (genuinely curious…)
JasonInFL
January 3rd, 2013
8:27 pm
Prado
Upton
J-Hey
Upton
Freeman
Uggs
Mac
Simmons
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2013
8:31 pm
That was quick…
Mark
January 3rd, 2013
8:37 pm
cabravesan
He struck out right at 170 times last year. Actually 1 more time than Uggs I think. Can you imagine watching another Brave in the same lineup as Ugg strike out more and watch it day after day. Its going to be brutal.
Hope I’m wrong but I didn’t like the signing but nobody asked
JasonInFL
January 3rd, 2013
8:37 pm
Man, Chipper was remarkably consistent throughout his career. Home/Away, batting Left/Right, 1st half/2nd half, by month, Day/Night, etc.
Mark
January 3rd, 2013
8:39 pm
cabraves
Sorry I forgot to put my answer to your question. I’m afraid he’ll try to liv up to the contract and be a 75 million dollar player and pressing more to drive the ball will account for at least 10 more Ks. IMO
Wes Jorga
January 3rd, 2013
8:42 pm
Upton had 14 more strikeouts than Bourn did.
DiamondDave
January 3rd, 2013
8:44 pm
In all the fuss over the Braves name, has it ever occurred to anyone that they were originally the Boston Braves, and that the name is a reference to the disguise worn by those who took part in the original Boston Tea Party?
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2013
8:45 pm
Mark-
Fair enough