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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,304 comments Add your comment
Murph
December 19th, 2012
6:43 pm
I can’t wait when we lose Kimbrel, Heyward, and Freeman all to free agency or deal them away. The blog will self-destruct.
You’re looking forward to that? Considering what we’ve got in the minors, that will pretty much be the death knell for the Braves… at least until the current TV deal expires in ~20 years.
I’m not looking forward to it. I still remember what it was like to be a Braves fan in the 80’s. Wasn’t fun.
nolie
December 19th, 2012
6:44 pm
nah he woulda raked up there. prolly killed us every time we went there
FSUbRaVe
December 19th, 2012
6:44 pm
The front office is not showing they want to truly compete for the WS….This team is no better than it was last year, and is actually worse..no leadoff hitter, nobody to play LF..we are definitely a mid market 78-82 win team…..i thought wren was going to make a splash this year…i guess i was wrong…
nolie
December 19th, 2012
6:46 pm
takes two to tango
G
December 19th, 2012
6:47 pm
This would be a great scenario. Then maybe Wren could finally get fired!!
DS1
December 19th, 2012
6:48 pm
Like I said earlier, if the blog had a minimum baseball IQ level, a lot of folks in here would be shyt out of luck.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
6:49 pm
nah he woulda raked up there. prolly killed us every time we went there
Yup, you can confidently bet on that one.
But still, the Braves should have offered 12/yr instead of 15/yr. Would have beaten Phillies’ offer anyway.
MFin04
December 19th, 2012
6:49 pm
“nah he woulda raked up there.”
Yep, and Victorino is probably gonna rake in Boston too. Sucks playing in a park that dwarfs players numbers.
I’m fine with the BJ Upton deal as long as it is the 2nd best deal the Braves do this off-season. He isn’t an impact guy, he just isn’t. Still need a guy like Willingham in LF. As for leadoff, we screwed ourselves when we signed Upton to play CF. Gotta hope Simmons can hit leadoff.
SmokeyJoeWood
December 19th, 2012
6:50 pm
Nothing for Gillian Welch and The Harrow & the Harvest?
Can’t help but think Wren is kicking himself for letting Revere and Span get away to NL rivals. We coulda had them.
jeffrey d
December 19th, 2012
6:50 pm
This would be a great scenario. Then maybe Wren could finally get fired!!
Yeah, I’m tired of winning too
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
6:51 pm
The [ownership] is not showing they want to truly compete for the WS
nolie
December 19th, 2012
6:51 pm
well we know that now, and perhaps he did offer 12 and they said no. negotiators do not usually jump in with their best offer right away.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
6:53 pm
Phils offered 5/55… 5/60 shoulda worked!
nolie
December 19th, 2012
6:53 pm
it is not gonna be the second best deal I guarantee that, it might be the only big deal , not much left out there to covet at this point unless a trade pops up that nobody has contemplated
nolie
December 19th, 2012
6:55 pm
you think they knew what the Phils offered? c’mon man, that ain’t how it works
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
6:55 pm
FSUbRaVe- Surely you aren’t a ‘nole…. cuz any true Seminole would know that this team is competitive, the FO is trying to compete, and we are better than a 78-82 win club
MFin04
December 19th, 2012
6:57 pm
“it is not gonna be the second best deal I guarantee that, it might be the only big deal ,”
And that is perhaps why you get the best guy available and not try to get two really good players. Hamilton/Bourn/Greinke make an impact for this team, BJ Upton doesn’t. Not if he plays as he has lately.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
6:57 pm
Can’t help but think Wren is kicking himself for letting Revere and Span get away to NL rivals
Wren would have had to overpay [under Braves' standards, given the poor farm] for any of the two. Not worth it.
Tom O'Hawke
December 19th, 2012
6:58 pm
takes two to tango
We live in a high-tech world, and in over 100 years no one has been able to come up with a solo tango. Makes one shake ones head.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:01 pm
Well, with all the info that gets leaked in today’s media… you never know…
MFin04
December 19th, 2012
7:04 pm
“Phils offered 5/55… 5/60 shoulda worked”
Ok there is a HUGE difference between 5/55 and 5/75. I mean especially when the guy getting paid is coming off a sub .300 on base year and is a below average defensive CFer.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:07 pm
The Phillies offer was more in the neighborhood of what BJ should have gotten. But oh well…
TennBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
7:15 pm
I don’t understand how people think this Braves team as currently constructed is worse than last years team was going into the season. The starting pitching is much better than last years staff started out. The bullpen which was already the best in the league, actually got better with Walden. Chipper had 62 rbi’s and scored 57 runs. Juan Francisco will surpass the RBI’s I can promise you. I don’t know about the runs scored. Simmons in the lead off spot will finish with better numbers than Bourn I will promise that as well. That means that Upton just has to be better than Pasternicky.
nolie
December 19th, 2012
7:16 pm
we don’t even know what the Phils actually offered. I would not necessarily believe what thet said about it
Mr Pitts
December 19th, 2012
7:18 pm
Too bad we can’t have Chipper hurt in the dugout for the coming season.
Yuuup
December 19th, 2012
7:20 pm
I have had problems recently posting on these blogs for some reason, anyone else having these problems? Anyways, a post I did that didn’t post earlier, I stated that anyone on here bashing DOB, get a life. He is a Braves sports writer, he is not a shoe journalist, so if the Braves are quiet, he won’t have much to talk about, yet he does his best to get blogs up.
Now onto this story. DOB, do you really believe Wren when he says that if he can’t find a LF’er or 3B via trade that he is happy with his team? I for one don’t believe him, and if he truly does feel that way, then he is even dumber then I give him credit for. I’m sorry, but Juan Francisco is not the answer to being the starting 3B here. What has he done to warrant that talk? Losing weight? Well anyone that plays pro baseball shouldn’t be a fat ass to begin with, it should be apart of their contract. Hitting the way he is in Winter Ball? Well, he is seeing pitching that is not like what he will see in MLB. Kudos to him for putting up numbers in that league, but the best pitchers in the world pitch right here in MLB, and several of them are in this division.
So if his winter play is warranting talking about him being the starting 3B for the Braves, why don’t you just put Gattis in LF and move Prado to 3B? Gattis is having a monster winter as well, so why even have a platoon? Gattis is a RH hitter, Francisco is a LH hitter, see where I am going with this?
Still, the best fit is to trade for a player like Bonifacio or Fowler. They are both switch hitters and both legit leadoff hitters. They both get on base a lot, the both steal a lot of bases, and that is what this team needs, not a platoon with no real leadoff hitter. Sorry guys, Prado is better suited for either the 2 or 3 hole, or possibly the 5th spot with his contact rate, lack of striking out, and ability to drive in runs. can’t do that leading off.
Yes the Braves will have to give up more to land Fowler, but just like everything else in life, you have to give more to receive more. Fowler is under team control for a while, and would be a nice fit to this team. Cheap ass Wren won’t go this route though, we all know that. It makes to much sense to get a guy that can be a starter in LF and leadoff for us, which is why he won’t do it. He values his top prospects to much, well news flash Frankie, Delgado and Teheran won’t both be in the rotation to start the season. And if you can trade Delgado for 3 months of Ryan Dempster, you can certainly trade him for several years of a player like Fowler who this team needs.
This is Yuuup, and I approve this message.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:24 pm
There were reports on twitter stating that Amaro and the Phillies were quite mad after Upton signed with ATL.
So, maybe the reported offer was not all that accurate. Or maybe it was just because he signed with a Div. rival.
Or maybe he [BJ] gave them the impression of having reached sort of a principal/verbal agreement.
Anyways, you could say the Braves overpaid, but I’m just glad the Phils didn’t get him…
Bend Over Braves Fans!
December 19th, 2012
7:26 pm
Is this practice anything new? Bait and switch, say one thing and do something else.
Braves fans should be used to Wren and company promising the world and delivering little. Getting a left fielder was not a “maybe” it was a “definite.” Now it isn’t really necessary according to them.
It’s really pretty simple. When you come away empty handed, with the exception of setting the over-paid outfield market for this off season, you spin it that you have all the pieces you need in-house.
It’s odd that even teams that may not normally be known as big spenders can get their needs met via the trade, but Wren seems to make mostly excuses for not getting his deals done.
ChattTownBrian
December 19th, 2012
7:28 pm
No way I believe Wren is just fine with that rotation circle for LF after losing Chipper and Bourn. No way.
Yuuup
December 19th, 2012
7:30 pm
TennBravesFan,
How can you guarantee that? You have a crystal ball? How can you say that Simmons will have better numbers than Bourn? So Simmons will hit as many triples, doubles, and steal as many bases as Bourn? Bourn had a career best 9 HR’s last year, I see Simmons hitting maybe 10 for the season, so a wash there. If you can’t steal bases at a high rate, you can’t put yourself in scoring position for the next guys, and Simmons can’t steal bases at a high rate.
Pretty confident on Francisco I see, so what has he done to make a guarantee like that? So that just leaves Upton having to be better than Pastornicky huh? How about Laird being as good as Ross? I don’t see that happening, and seeing as though we have a starting catcher who is injury prone and can’t throw out baserunners, I believe you have to have a backup catcher that can put up starter like numbers, which I don’t think Laird is capable of.
So yes, you see it as this team is stronger than they were last season, and many of us, me included, see this team as weaker than they were last season. That is the beauty of this blog, everyone has their own opinion, and we can voice it. I was just wondering how you can make bold promises like that with no facts to back it up?
Bend Over Braves Fans!
December 19th, 2012
7:30 pm
“Anyways, you could say the Braves overpaid, but I’m just glad the Phils didn’t get him…”
Considering that the Braves paid 75 mil for a guy the Phils only offered 55 mil for (and reportedly were the next best offer)….. I would say the Phils are actually pretty thankful!
Has Wren made some good trades? Yeah. Has he made as many bad moves? Yeah, probably more!
Norris Chuck
December 19th, 2012
7:33 pm
FROM MLBTraderumors.com
It appears that the Braves would be fairly comfortable going into the season with Martin Prado playing both left field and third base. They’d use Reed Johnson in left field against left-handers and Juan Francisco at third base against right-handers in that scenario.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#dvSkBlWeLrAPJZe7.99
Well folks, there you go. Just as we all feared but knew it was inevitable. What a joke!
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
7:34 pm
I would not have been unhappy to see the Phils sign BJ…
Bend Over Braves Fans!
December 19th, 2012
7:34 pm
How in the hell can you clear toxic payroll and yet not be able to put together a better team than you had with the monies available?
Rick C
December 19th, 2012
7:36 pm
Yuup, the Rockies asked for both Minor and either Delgado or Teheran for Fowler. That would be a huge overpay for Fowler considering his numbers away from Coors Field. And I’m not exactly sure why you or others see Bonifacio as that much of an improvement over the internal options we already have.
Bend Over Braves Fans!
December 19th, 2012
7:37 pm
I remember last time the Braves were happy with their in-house options in the off season.
His name is Tyler Pasternicky!
ChattTownBrian
December 19th, 2012
7:37 pm
Norris Chuck, that’s what I was refering to. I can’t see Wren not getting a LF before ST.
P'cola Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:37 pm
Yuuuupp
You do know that the Rockies asked for Minor AND one of Delgado or Teheran. With that asking price no GM will pay that.
P'cola Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:37 pm
Yuuuupp
You do know that the Rockies asked for Minor AND one of Delgado or Teheran. With that asking price no GM will pay that.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:37 pm
It’s odd that even teams that may not normally be known as big spenders can get their needs met via the trade, but Wren seems to make mostly excuses for not getting his deals done.
Other GMs are asking for players Wren is not willing to give up. Is just as simple as that.
Take AZ’s K. Towers for example. The guy was obsessed with Simmons. A deal could have been reached with AZ if not for that.
The Braves won’t and shouldn’t trade Simmons. They can’t trade both Teheran and Delgado. And considering the Braves don’t have any elite prospects, there’s just not much to do.
It’s simple logic, if you’re gonna make a trade to fill a need, you don’t do it by creating another need. And can’t expect to trade for impact players if you don’t even have attractive prospects.
nolie
December 19th, 2012
7:37 pm
WHAAAH!!!
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:40 pm
I would not have been unhappy to see the Phils sign BJ…
But you would have been happy seeing the Braves trading talent for Bour… Holy crap I almost said that name again!
P'cola Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:43 pm
I know Francisco didn’t deliver anything last year to make people comfortable with him starting. That being said, anyone who has ever played the game knows that it is difficult to get into a rhythm or groove with inconsistent playing time. I for one would like to see him get a shot. His minor numbers show he has the potential (.286/.317/.502/.819) but he needs the chance to prove it. Sure would like to see him take a few walks though. I would much rather have an established LF or 3B but if not Francisco is an interesting option.
old man
December 19th, 2012
7:48 pm
TennBravesFan:
I like the cut of your jib! I’m not flirting, OK? It’s people like you and me that need to stand up to these nattering nabobs of negativism.
The greatest assets the Braves have are some young studs who will continue to improve and two guys–Uggla and McCann–who are very unlikely to both repeat career worst years. Everyone wants to overlook that, pretend it does not exist. It’s like saying, “you’re not rich, that billion dollars you have in the bank was there last year–you’re only rich if you have new money. Everybody knows that!”
Well, some of our existing assets are going to pay dividends and interest next year.
Angry acworth man
December 19th, 2012
7:48 pm
Frank Wren has got to go! I really hope we go into spring training with a platoon in LF. That way we know that this will be our last season dealing with Frank Wren’s inadequate decision making!
And stop telling me about Mejia’s and Gattis’s stats in the winter leagues!! They are facing AA pitching at the best!!
Lew
December 19th, 2012
7:48 pm
Yes – everyone has problems posting on the blog and it’s been going on for weeks now.
And who do you think Wren could have gotten that he claims he couldn’t?
Tom O'Hawke
December 19th, 2012
7:50 pm
P’cola Brave
I didn’t like him when the Braves first got him because it was reported he was lazy (see Dusty Baker).
However, at least for now, he seems to be working hard. He’s still pretty young (25?) and maybe he’ll become a more patient & better hitter.
Mixxo
December 19th, 2012
7:51 pm
Nothing for Gillian Welch and The Harrow & the Harvest? – SmokeyJoeWood
What a great album!
Couch Tater
December 19th, 2012
7:52 pm
Parkway – Thanks for the Minneapolis NPR link. Nice tunes.
If, ya’ll read this post, go wash your hands and load up on the vitamin C. I’m sickly. A friend told me she went to the doc in the box and couldn’t find a parking place.
Bahhum bug. [cough cough hack hack snort honk]
Angry acworth man
December 19th, 2012
7:52 pm
It’s all a bunch of smoke screens in regards to players that we “pursued” aggressively! Frank Wren is just talking garbage so people think he really cares about this teams needs. The Braves are no better today than they were at the end of the season!
Bend Over Braves Fans!
December 19th, 2012
7:53 pm
“Other GMs are asking for players Wren is not willing to give up. Is just as simple as that.”
Are you looking at any of the pieces that are being moved? Why are other GM’s asking Wren for these untouchable players yet they aren’t asking other GM’s for equal talent to what they asked the Braves for? Either Wren is a real P^%ck and no one wants to deal with him….. the Braves are trying to acquire the wrong pieces…. or the Braves are lying about what opposing teams are asking for.
BTW…. the only team I have heard that demanded Simmons was the DBacks for Upton. Last time I checked, Upton was still in AZ. And yes…. Rockies are asking too much for Fowler. Fowler isn’t the answer but I fear Wren will make a stupid move and over pay for Fowler.
Wren set the outfield market by signing Upton for 75 mil. The Braves are going to have to deal with the fact that Wren looked like a sap and MAYBE its understandable that other teams think he’s a stooge they can walk over. Maybe that’s it.
The bottom line is it really doesn’t matter why Wren hasn’t made that deal. He has some time left, if he makes the deal, then fine. If he doesn’t, then he can continue to make excuses.
richbrave
December 19th, 2012
7:53 pm
Just back from JOHNS HOPKINS sports fans. Did I miss any fireworks by GATTIS, MEJIA or FRANCISCO? How about TEHERAN, DELGADO, or AVILAN?
P'cola Brave
December 19th, 2012
7:54 pm
Tom
I remember them saying that he had worn out his welcome after coming into ST overweight. I know it kind of lingered in the beginning here. I remember it being said that Freddie sat him down and had a heart to heart, after that he played with a little more hustle. I don’t think hes the answer but hes certainly got potential and some thunder in that bat. I think we could do worse.
Lew
December 19th, 2012
7:55 pm
Somebody earlier mentioned DOB not including any Souther rockers on his list. He did – Baroness. They’re a Southern Metal Band from South Carolina. Lots of great Southern Metal around – also Mastadon and Black Stone Cherry – who’s newest album is very hard and headbanging.
richbrave
December 19th, 2012
7:55 pm
Welcome back PL
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
7:56 pm
Hanson is talent?
Hanson+ Spruill, Jaime, or EOF should have been enough for both PB and Walden. He posted a better season in 2011 than BJ has since 08… and he wouldnt have costed a draft pick and 15mil a season.
I mean, if BJ has potential still at age 28 after sukking for 4 straight years, surely PB has potential after sukking in just 1, where he was injured and became a part-timer due to Trout
Lew
December 19th, 2012
7:57 pm
No better than at the end of last season? Ypou mean where we won 94 games and were one of the six or so best teams in MLB?
nolie
December 19th, 2012
7:57 pm
only thing i have against him is his so far crappy OBP
nolie
December 19th, 2012
8:00 pm
they may be Southern bands, but that is not Southern Rock
Tom O'Hawke
December 19th, 2012
8:03 pm
Welcome back PL — richbrave
So you think the Bend Over- dude is the Dentzman, huh, richbrave?
You may be right. His moniker is appropriate for someone that lives in San Fran… that’s for sure.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
8:04 pm
he showed up fat and not having properly rehabbed and conditioned a leg injury if I recall correctly. My bigger issue is his lazy eye at the plate… dude swings and misses a ton!
smoltzie
December 19th, 2012
8:04 pm
The solution to the LF / 3B problem is simple. Martin Prado can play BOTH of these positions at the SAME TIME. After all, he’s MARTIN PRADO! He can play both positions, and announce the game, and fix the admin computer with no problemo.
old man
December 19th, 2012
8:04 pm
nolie, I held my tongue twice, but the third time, I cannot:
Yuuup
I’m sorry, but Juan Francisco is not the answer to being the starting 3B here. What has he done to warrant that talk? Losing weight? Well anyone that plays pro baseball shouldn’t be a fat ass to begin with, it should be apart of their contract. Hitting the way he is in Winter Ball? Well, he is seeing pitching that is not like what he will see in MLB. Kudos to him for putting up numbers in that league, but the best pitchers in the world pitch right here in MLB, and several of them are in this division.
Dang it, Yuuup, nolie is right, it’s a small sample size. 226 ABs. MLB pitching. That stands for “Major Leage Baseball” They propose to use him against righties, not pinch hitting. His line is:
.306/.356/.551/.907
In response to that you can say:
small sample size
I don’t like Hispanics
BABIP was too high
He wears an earring
I haven’t seen his “papers”
You could even say, that slash line is cherry picking [even though that's exactly the role envisioned for him, no lefties and no pinch hitting.]
But you can’t say “it’s just winter ball pitching.” That’s misleading. It’s MLB pitching.
richbrave
December 19th, 2012
8:05 pm
98.6
AdirondackDave
December 19th, 2012
8:06 pm
Looks to me like Gattis and Mejia are both mlb-ready or will be soon. In my mind, Gattis is going to win the left-field spot coming out of ST or in June. Mejia can hang around until the Braves decide on Freeman’s future. If he doesn’t sign a club-favorable long-term extension by next winter, (1) they’ve got a slugger on the cheap to replace him for 6 years, and (2) they can trade Freeman for significant prospects. Gattis and Mejia have too much to offer to waste a full year at Gwinnett. That’s my take anyway, worth at least what you paid for it.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
8:06 pm
Why are other GM’s asking Wren for these untouchable players yet they aren’t asking other GM’s for equal talent to what they asked the Braves for?
You are overvaluing the Braves’ prospects my man.
richbrave
December 19th, 2012
8:07 pm
TOM O”:
On the money my man.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
8:09 pm
Hanson+ Spruill, Jaime, or EOF should have been enough for both PB and Walden.
So, you’re telling you would have been willing to give up three players for THAT guy? Oh well…
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
8:09 pm
sample size and babip… poor defense at 3B also
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
8:09 pm
sample size and babip… poor defense at 3B also
old man
December 19th, 2012
8:10 pm
Just to be clear, MLB pitching, while playing for the Cincinnati Reds and Atlanta Braves, 2009-2012. Last time I checked, they only played against other MLB teams. Correct me if I’m wrong on that.
Ironically, he has generated that line for the two oldest clubs in the history of baseball. So I’m pretty sure he was facing MLB pitching.
old man
December 19th, 2012
8:11 pm
TOBF, why do you say poor defense?
Honestly, I could be educated about those dang fielding stats. Can you point me to some on Juan that show he is a bad fielder?
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
8:11 pm
No, just 2. Hanson and one of the other 3
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
8:11 pm
Wow, even after quoting it I didn’t read it correctly. Scratch my last comment.
ChattTownBrian
December 19th, 2012
8:12 pm
I will be so mad if we end up with a platoon. I’ll kick and scream until maybe Wren sees our pain and frustration!!!!!
terry
December 19th, 2012
8:13 pm
Hey DOB check out Stereomonster on youtube, reverbnation, cd baby itunes…on youtube…their video is called What a Day!
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
8:13 pm
Yeah, just saw that. My bad.
But still, I wouldn’t give up E’OF [one of the best relievers in the NL] for that guy.
old man
December 19th, 2012
8:14 pm
TOBF:
Sample size, valid criticism. But to me that’s an issue you resolve by finding out if the sample is too small. You do that by playing him. The sample is not small because it’s just the last two months or something. It’s a career stat.
BABIP, yes, a little on the high size, but I thought those numbers were a bit marginal.
Anyway, I sincerely welcome fielding stats on Juan. (and maybe a tutorial for a dumb@ss who might not understand them)
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
8:16 pm
The Braves continue eyeing a left fielder and would prefer to add a leadoff type, Heyman reports (on Twitter). – MLB Trade Rumors.
JC Brave
December 19th, 2012
8:18 pm
The Braves have been in trade talks this week with several clubs and are believed to be targeting Fowler. – MLB Trade Rumors (December 15).
ncgary
December 19th, 2012
8:20 pm
considering the free agents and trade scenarios , i can see why wren is holding off. who knows francisco might hit 40 homers this year, i can see him having a breakout year for someone
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
8:21 pm
my eyes and a lil BBRef… IIRC, his RF/9 was around 2.1, which is where Chipper was last year. From watching both play, neither was very good. Juan has a bigger arm though. Rdrs is another stat I’ve looked at, and I believe he is negative or hanging around zero there.
RF/9 Range factor per 9 inning
Rdrs defensive runs saved
old man
December 19th, 2012
8:21 pm
ChattTownBrian
My idea is that I would love to have a $2-3MM platoon that outperforms a guy on another team who is signed for a $13MM x 5 year deal.
To me it’s better financially, and you get to say, “Oh, you paid full price for that? Yeah, that sucks. Too bad, man.”
What is inherently wrong with a platoon if you get more production and pay less?
ncgary
December 19th, 2012
8:24 pm
lou gherigs is starting to catch up to me, they say it comes fast when it comes. i will probably drop dead from diaphragm, just had it tested to see if i could get the diaphragm pacemaker , havent heard from the doc yet but the x ray tech report was not promising. if i cant find stem cells soon i probably croak in 2 months
go braves
at least i will have good cheap seats ……..lol
P'cola Brave
December 19th, 2012
8:24 pm
Maybe just my opinion but the 3B doesn’t have to have great range with Simmons to his left.
old man
December 19th, 2012
8:26 pm
TOBF, but zero is a neutral number, right?
I agree that Chipper had deteriorated over the years. But, he is the guy we are replacing.
Do you feel like Juan and Chipper are different in some respects, but roughly equivalent overall?
Am I reading you right?
I had heard from others weeks ago was that Juan and Chipper were rough equivalents
old man
December 19th, 2012
8:29 pm
http://tampabay.sbnation.com/2012/12/5/3733044/mlb-rumors-marlins-and-rays-are-interested-in-juan-francisco
Is this old news or just pure BS about Miami interest in Francisco? Part of Stanton deal? [Last sentence purely mine]
ncgary
December 19th, 2012
8:30 pm
but hey i still feel pretty good , my muscles are beginning to atrophy though.its a shame we spent the last decade arguing about the morality of stem cells,
anyone know a good stem cell cheap shop
Tom O'Hawke
December 19th, 2012
8:34 pm
old man
I just don’t see Wren making any deals unless he considers it a VERY GOOD one.
If, either, Gattis in LF or Francisco on 3RD do anything during spring training to impress him, he’ll figure the Braves are all set.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
8:34 pm
Im seeing a 2.16 RF from him last year, 1Rdrs and -5Rtot… his low range costs the team, but he can still handle the plays he gets to for the most part… but again, sample size. Likely wont be that good with more playing time. It’ll look worse.
tmc
December 19th, 2012
8:39 pm
Let’s get this straight.
And don’t let the water get muddied with what if’s…
The Braves lost Chipper, Bourn and Ross (best catcher) off last year’s everyday playoff lineup.
And have replaced them with: BJ Upton.
Frank Wren is posturing to go to spring training and most likely opening day with what we have along w/ a long-shot prospect in LF. He is banking on Juan Francisco based on mexican winter league? And a inexperienced player who’s played 1 season in LF no higher than AA?
All of this in an off season where we’ve had more money to spend than in many recent years combined. AND w/ at least 2 if not 3 pitching prospects to bring in a big trade.
I for one will be completely pissed off if this is what we start the season with.
(and i go on FW track record the last few years setting the roster by mid December)
This Braves fan is paying attention… and waiting.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 19th, 2012
8:40 pm
because of Simmons I want a better than avg. 3B… our LF defense wont be great, and our right side of the IF is average. Avving a good 3B allows Simmons to cheat up the middle a bit, to help Uggla, who moves over a bit to help Freeman.
Yes, old man, I see the 2012 Chipper and Juan as rough equivalents defensively. Slightly below averag. Zero is neutral, meaning that he isnt costing you too much really, but if he has poor range as well, which leads to a lower Rtot, it’s not so good imo.
Tom O'Hawke
December 19th, 2012
8:48 pm
because of Simmons I want a better than avg. 3B… — TOBF
If you don’t think it’s possible for a hard-working, in-shape 25 year old player to be better than he was as an out-of-shape, lazy player with only part-time work, then, fine.
But you’d better hope Wren gets someone for LF, or Gattis can do the job, because there’s really not much out there for 3B.
JoeFan
December 19th, 2012
8:52 pm
There really isn’t anyone left out there worth the price being demanded from the Braves. Better to see Gattis, Mejia and Francisco in spring training than to over pay.
old man
December 19th, 2012
8:55 pm
Juan’s 2012 number is on top, Chipper’s 2012 number is second:
Rtot Rdrs Rtot/yr
0 1 -1
4 0 6
Chipper looks better, I guess.
Here, Juan looks better:
Rdrs/yr
3
0
Chipper is better here:
RF/9 RF/G
2.16 1.78
2.23 2.16
Here are 2012 league numbers, so they both look like they are below par at 3B:
lgRF9 lgRFG
2.45 2.42
2.45 2.42
Chipper average, Juan below average:
Rtz
0
4
Juan seems better on all of these sabermetric fielding stats, whatever the hell they are:
Rdrs Rdrs/yr Rpm Rdp
1 3 1 0
0 0 -4 0
So, I think Juan and Chipper, 2012, were both below league average. They were roughly the same.
If someone knows about these stats, would love your take on them.
Tom O'Hawke
December 19th, 2012
8:58 pm
Juan seems better on all of these sabermetric fielding stats, whatever the hell they are: — old man
old man
December 19th, 2012
9:03 pm
TMC
He is banking on Juan Francisco based on mexican winter league?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
[PS, the thing that Wren is NOT relying on is the Dominican League. You were close. It's only 2000+ miles away. But why let facts get in the way of analysis, eh?]
chipl1960
December 19th, 2012
9:05 pm
Best wishes Gary. Where are you in NC? I’m at Emerald Isle.You are in my thoughts and prayers.
yep
December 19th, 2012
9:13 pm
so we are content to sit right where we are? same old crap. some old attitude and will result in the same old thing. no playoffs.
Anyone that has worked with a budget knows that if you dont spend it then you lose it. We have money to get an outfielder and didnt do it.
Next year that money will be reduced for team budget. thats just the way it works.
yep
December 19th, 2012
9:15 pm
amen tmc!!