8:35 pm December 18, 2012, by David O'Brien
December 21st, 201210:24 pm
Enjoyed some you tube clips of GATTIS yard-shots. Search string ‘Gattis beasbol’. Couple of ERNESTO MEJIA shots too.
December 21st, 201210:26 pm
Here’s another one we could have used. Didn’t we trade him for Javy Vazquez?
The reported departure of A.J. Pierzynski via a one-year deal with the Rangers, pending a Friday physical, means the Tyler Flowers era behind the plate for the White Sox unofficially has begun.
December 21st, 201210:27 pm
Besides, whatever they save now, can be used a little further into the season when someone gets injured and goes out for the remainder of the year.
that is seldom an efficient way to stock a club. They don’t need a 16 mil cushion for that approach.
besides I asked a question didn’t give an answer. I think they have made some attempts, but I still have little feel for what they will do, much less than most seasons as far as payroll goes.
December 21st, 201210:30 pm
The Twins starting 5 is sorry
yeah and he has done nothing in all that time. He is coming up 27 with a 200 MLB BA
he should hit a whole buncha homers in that park though if he hits enough to play regularly now
December 21st, 201210:31 pm
that 30mil player at the deadline… yep. And watch FW trade the prospects to get said superstar… aint happening.The 7mill player for the entire season is more valuable than the 16+ guy for 50 games.
For 2014, we got Teheran, Delgado, Gilmartin, Graham,Spruill, and Wood battling for two spots… one of which I expect to be filled from outside the org. Maybe we should move one or two of those guys this winter for a position prospect at A or AA. Unless, you think we’d be better served keeping them and going after an ace type like David Price.
All I can say is that I’m not sitting in with the FO on the possible deals the Braves can make. Too much unknown information, there.
But as of now, if you’re Wren and you have a possible chance at saving that money and using your internal players, Gattis or Francisco, wouldn’t you wait until spring training?
December 21st, 201210:32 pm
Yes we did trade him for javy Vazquez. A good trade all around for us
December 21st, 201210:35 pm
not unless I had to, you wait and if they tank it is much harder to find a trade and you are losing games.
I don’t know it’s as good as it was in 2009. Javy had his best season then, but later Lillibridge started at SS and now Flowers is a starter in 2013 at C.
December 21st, 201210:38 pm
what happens to the money saved? does it get saved for future use, allowing us to spend say, an extra 5mil the next 3 seasons?
seems we coulda payed Hamilton if we wanted too. Only making 1 move, no need to save for a 2nd one… Payroll would currently be at 95mil, leaving 5 to acquire a 15mil player at the deadline. Wren did say payroll could touch 100. Hah! We should have 17 left… Swisher shouldnt get that much, let’s chase him…
ah, but payroll must reaally be between 85 and 90 mil… we missed where Frank said “minus ten mil”
December 21st, 201210:39 pm
not unless I had to, you wait and if they tank it is much harder to find a trade and you are losing games. — nolie
On the other hand, you could spend all that’s left in the budget and, then, both Gattis & Francisco impress the hell out of you during ST, on top of their good Winter Ball results.
I think Frank might still make a move, but I doubt it’ll be one where he overpays for a FA, or gives away too much as far as prospects are concerned.
December 21st, 201210:41 pm
Lillibridge had one good part of a season in a great hitters park, he has never had more than 217 at bats so he was not a starter. He is pretty crappy with a 68 OPS+ in a great hitters park, lotsa questions about what Flowers will do. even with out that trade which got us a good year out of Javi and some return since, neither Flowers or Lillibridge would still be with Atlanta now and might easily not have brought as much in another deal or deals
December 21st, 201210:43 pm
what happens to the money saved? does it get saved for future use, allowing us to spend say, an extra 5mil the next 3 seasons? — TOBF
I’m hoping it gets equally divided among the top 50 most funniest comments of the year. (I know, I have a lot of work still to do.)
Of course, it can get used in the future…
both Gattis & Francisco impress the hell out of you during ST, on top of their good Winter Ball results…Tom
a helluva lot better situation to have to deal with than the reverse, and I did not suggest spending all of it
December 21st, 201210:45 pm
really like Jon Jay… any way possible to get him? Like EOF and Teheran or Delgado for Jay and a R like Rosenthal?
I’m probably dreaming again
December 21st, 201210:46 pm
Of course, it can get used in the future…Tom
the future this season if the opportunity arises, after that prolly not. each season is a separate entity
December 21st, 201210:48 pm
… and I did not suggest spending all of it
No, of course you didn’t, nolie. But I asked this to that “jc_dawgs”-dude, before (still haven’t heard back from him).
Who would you like to see the Braves get – and what would you pay/give for him?
December 21st, 201210:49 pm
Willingham, Delgado + lower pitcher
December 21st, 201210:50 pm
anybody with dawg in their name is an idiot………..
We should have made a run at AJ Pierzynski that the Rangers just signed. He’s getting better with age. He was too expensive though for the Braves.
.278/ .326/ .501/ .827 with 27 HR
December 21st, 201210:51 pm
I wish we could find out what Wren offered the Twins for Willingham. I’m assuming he DID try to make that trade.
December 21st, 201210:52 pm
AJ is one of the three most hated players in baseball, not a Braves player prolly
and as you say, too pricey
December 21st, 201210:53 pm
Wren probably figured it was bad timing to try to acquire a starting catcher.
I’d like to know what he offered for Choo that made him so optimistic for awhile
December 21st, 201210:54 pm
Vasquez pitched great for us and we sold hi to the Yankees. Dunn helped us get Uggla (debate extension but good trade for the year) and vizcaino. Vizcaino got us reed Johnson and maholm
December 21st, 201210:55 pm
The GMs should let us know after it’s all over… what went down that DIDN’T happen, you know? That’d be interesting as hell.
December 21st, 201210:56 pm
that was perhaps the most vilified trade ever on the blog
Tom – Haven’t you heard of “putting another Bull in the pasture”?
December 21st, 201210:57 pm
The twins obviously did not want to trade willingham. My guess is they asked for minor and then some if they even responded to a trade offer. Wren did his due diligence.
No point in creating a need to trade for a need. The only exception to that is is freeman could help us get someone like Stanton and then we could sign LaRoche
December 21st, 201210:58 pm
I would offer freeman, Delgado, ahmed, Gattis, and Gilmartin for Stanton.
I would then get chipper to call Laroche to recruit him for a 3 year deal
that was perhaps the most vilified trade ever on the blog — nolie
Yeah, and close to that one was the Escobar trade. At least in the last few years.
December 21st, 201211:00 pm
A.J signeda 1yr deal on the cheap. May be cheap next year.
McCann has a 1yr option for 12 mil. May try to cash out (out of our range) next year.
December 21st, 201211:02 pm
Pierzynski signed for $7.5 M. Hardly affordable to the Braves.
Tom – Haven’t you heard of “putting another Bull in the pasture”? — keyLargo
Ha,ha… can’t say as I have, keyLargo. I guess I’m still a city-slicker, at heart.
December 21st, 201211:04 pm
The Escobar trade was vilified? Hopefully for being about 8months too late… pretty good deal for us to get back what we did for that jacka** while he was posting pathetic stats
I would replace gikmartin with venters or Avilian if they prefer and Delgado with Teheran. I would then try to sign Heyward and Stanton to matching extensions.
I would lay down as tempting an offer as I could afford if I were wren to get Stanton. He is our dream solution to LF and RH power bat. He is unhappy in Miami and will not sign an extension. I love freeman but we would have to include him, Ahmed, a top pitching prospect and someone like gattisnalong with one of our LH in the bullpen
December 21st, 201211:05 pm
Time to swing for the fences with Stanton
December 21st, 201211:06 pm
I can see Wren holding some $$ in reserve rather than committing it to a veteran LF. It’s almost a given that our needs in July will be a lot different than we thought they were in March. Who’d have thought going into last season that we’d be trading for starting pitching at the deadline? (plus signing a free agent pitcher off the scrap heap)
The LF situation may resolve itself (Gattis), or the platoon will almost surely be adequate if not great. If come July we are in contention and desperately need hitting, fine, go after it. But just as possible that we’ll again be trying to shore up the rotation, or even looking for bullpen help. Meanwhile you buy more time to see if the young guys can do the job at discount prices.
Frankly I think we could stick Rafael Belliard into the 8-spot and the offense will still be above-average, so I don’t think we need to trade near-ML-ready pitching prospects for short-term fixes, or commit to 4 or 5 years of some defensively challenged corner OF who’s probably seen his best days already.
December 21st, 201211:07 pm
The meaning of that saying is if you have one Bull in the pasture and you’re not getting as many calves as you should, put another Bull in there and the performance of Bull #1 will suddenly pick up.appreciably.
I was trying to apply that to Catcher # 1 on the Braves.
December 21st, 201211:08 pm
The Braves are not getting Stanton and are likely going to be too cheap to extend Heyward, Freeman and Kimbrell.
December 21st, 201211:12 pm
The Escobar trade was vilified? — TOBF
Obviously, you weren’t here then, were you? Yeah, a lot of fans didn’t want to see a young guy, with very good potential, for an aging player. They, of course, weren’t around to see his antics all of the time, as the players were.
another bull, or stallion, in the same pasture is a good way to get one or both maimed or killed….
maybe not so much with ballplayers
December 21st, 201211:16 pm
All I know is… I don’t walk through a pasture that has ONE bull in it… let alone, TWO. (I’m smart like that)
December 21st, 201211:21 pm
You can’t even joke on the blog anymore without getting a technical evaluation.
December 21st, 201211:22 pm
bulls often have poor eyesight, he might think you were a cow or even another bull, not sure which would be worse for you Tom….
December 21st, 201211:23 pm
Dunno…. nolie. That’s why I’m staying out of that dang pasture!
December 21st, 201211:24 pm
take it however you feel like
December 21st, 201211:26 pm
we might get out of today with the world intact yet, or did I just jinx us?
December 21st, 201211:29 pm
I don’t know, noles… I’m not popping that champagne until it’s 12:00 EST! The rest of the time-zones are on there own… (sorry, but every man for himself when it comes to fire & brimstone)
If I was seriously putting you down I would not have ended it with the quip about ballplayers
December 21st, 201211:34 pm
I’ve heard that saying my entire life as a joke about a cure for poor performance. I do know that one male will assert his dominance over the other one(s) and then it’s settled.
Wild animals do the same and not too many species go extinct because all the males are dead.
December 21st, 201211:39 pm
well since you brought it back up, I worked on a cattle farm ranch in Colorado as a kid and bred horses for 25 years, I have seen a number of males get maimed to uselessness.
no it does not always occur but few who have any real money tied up in breeding stock are gonna take a chance.
I have seen stallions come through wood fences after other males, even after a gelding a time or two.
December 21st, 201211:40 pm
Too many bulls on blog.
December 21st, 201211:41 pm
Tom I think we are gonna make it. See ya tomorrow! Night
December 21st, 201211:47 pm
No reason to trade Freeman for Stanton. Not in our best long term interests, even before all the other stud pieces you talked about.
December 21st, 201211:48 pm
nolie, shhhhhhh I hope so… I like your optimism. See you tomorrow, too. Good night!
BTW, I’m glad keyLargo and you were just talking about animals. I thought he challenged us to a blog-fight for male dominance, on his 11:34 post.
I’ve been trying to come up with some kind of weapon…
I DID find some pointy things on my keyboard, but I haven’t figured out how to thrust them, yet.
December 22nd, 201212:05 am
go braves nite all
checks and tests at hospital were impressive
you guys might be stuck with me all season
December 22nd, 201212:06 am
Nice to see intelligent Bulls with common sense and decent hearts share the same pasture. Just have to be carefull about stepping in the bullshyt. At this age its likely to be mine as well as someone elses.
December 22nd, 201212:13 am
checks and tests at hospital were impressive
you guys might be stuck with me all season
ncgary may be around for a while, after all… and so will the eastern time zone (as it slips into the 22ND!!).
Champagne is on me….
December 22nd, 201212:14 am
That’s great news gary! Like I tell my sons. I want to live long enough to be a problem for them!
Glad to hear that ex-Marine got released from the Mexican prison earlier tonight. I was getting ready to head down with my son’s and spring him myself……….. Or at least I dreamed it!
December 22nd, 201212:15 am
Just have to be careful about stepping in the bullshyt. — Wes Jorga
Another great reason to stay out of that DANG pasture… in case anyone needed one!
December 22nd, 201212:20 am
I hope y’all can forgive. Wayne (DS 1), for his quick hit-and-run post.
He still has another, 1 hour & 40 minutes, before he knows whether or not, UTAH, slips into that Mayan abyss. Good luck, buddy
December 22nd, 201212:27 am
The Mayan view of 2013 is optimistic compared to lots of Braves bloggers.
December 22nd, 201212:30 am
Well said, MikeinFl
December 22nd, 201212:56 am
Those of us on the West Coast not exactly cowering in fear – certainly the last place the End would start…
December 22nd, 20121:22 am
Although, after 25 minutes. maybe we lost the East Coast…
True, Mr. Jim
You guys have enough natural disasters out there to worry about without bringing the Mayans into the mix.
You’re a crazy bunch, but you DO have moxy!
December 22nd, 20121:29 am
They do call me Venice Jim Moxy McCostello…
December 22nd, 20121:31 am
One hour out here until the greatest moment of the holiday season – Darlene Love on Letterman(and Jay Thomas and the quarterback challenge)…hope the Eastern folk enjoyed it (I’ll be waiting for the morning)…
Buenos noches to all, and to all a good noches…
December 22nd, 20121:32 am
And WELL they should…
Does the “Mc” keep you Irish, or does the “Costello” get you a little more to my side?
December 22nd, 20121:34 am
In case my question was answered to the latter…
December 22nd, 20126:52 am
Its very early so you probably won’t see my post ncgary but I’m glad you got good news. Makes the xmas season a lot brighter doesn’t it? Glad for you sir.
December 22nd, 20127:09 am
Were sitting at around 83 million right now. Wren has around 10 to13 million available to use. Whatever he doesn’t use by the season’s end doesn’t get stacked onto 2014’s payroll it just goes away and is chalked up as money saved for Liberty.
Wren can’t use the money cause no free agents are worth the coin and we can’t trade for a high paid player cause we don’t have much to offer in prospects. Plus add in that Wren is not gonna overpay for anyone in trade. So far this offseason tho, Wren has really missed the boat. Finally having financial flexibility to make moves and hasn’t gotten it done. While in prior years we haven’t done much cause we didn’t have the money, he can’t say that this time.
Then we have a in-house combo of Johnson and Francisco who many believe will be solid combined. Also minor league slugger Evan Gattis as a option. So maybe they feel with all the options we have already that some kind of combination will be productive. Another issue is alot of people would like to see Prado stick at 1 position, but for this scenario there’s no chance in that.
When looking at trade options we’ve discussed lately, you can arguably say that they are not sure fire upgrades over what we have already as well. Making it even harder for Wren to pull the trigger on a deal. He missed the boat, there is no worthy players to spend on, and the good ones like Swisher and Bourn cost to much and are no longer fits. All good trade targets are off the board, the cupboard is dry. We’ll have to manage til the deadline and see if then we can make a addition. While all remaining money goes into Liberty’s pocket.
December 22nd, 20127:38 am
Ah… thanks Tom for the info.
December 22nd, 20128:02 am
I think Frank misjudged the trade environment, and based on the trades he has made in the past; I don’t think he was worried in the least about being able to trade for a LF. Then he starting hearing prices like Minor/Delgado for Fowler…
December 22nd, 20128:07 am
Of course, despite what Frank has said, I also wouldn’t fall out of my chair if LM had planned to lower payroll. If they have as much money left as they say and could even raise payroll, wouldn’t they at least bring Swisher in for a visit? Like I keep saying, the floor has been set. If they don’t like the prices now, when will they? They aren’t going down now.
December 22nd, 20128:35 am
Besides, whatever they save now, can be used a little further into the season when someone gets injured and goes out for the remainder of the year. We didn’t have that, last year.
Does anyone really believe we’ll be trading for a player with an average AAV of $15 million who the opposing team would be willing just to dump? And if that player is productive, why would they just dump him without getting prospects back? And is it a one year thing, or are we on the hook for that $15 million in 2014 and beyond? I have many doubts that the Braves will allocate this money to the roster mid-year and still keep their prospects. Better to make moves like that now than in the season when you’re only getting impact for half the season or most likely less. I understand if there wasn’t a deal to be made. I get that and I am not in the room with these guys. But they are not going to acquire a player making $15 million at the deadline for nothing. Highly unlikely.
December 22nd, 20128:38 am
Lat to this discussion. I’m an older reader (age wise) but I always looked forward to DOB’s CD list. Led to some good finds: Carolina Chocolate Drops, Mumford & Sons etc. But this year’s list seems dominated by hip-hop. Nothing against it but it’s not for me. Anything on this list beside Dylan and Leonard Cohen?
December 22nd, 20128:53 am
Wren clearly missed the boat, finally has payroll flexibility and couldn’t capitalize. Did the ole fliparoo; Usually we have alot of good prospects and no money, now we don’t have the prospects and alot of money lol.
December 22nd, 20128:58 am
Lee Dorman Dead: Iron Butterfly Bassist Dies at the Age of 70
Posted on Dec 21st 2012 10:07PM by Carlos RamirezComments
Michael Ochs Archives
Former Iron Butterfly bassist Lee Dorman has passed away.
The 70-year-old was found dead outside of his home in Orange County, Calif. earlier today (Dec. 21).
According to a report on TMZ, officers showed up to Dorman’s home around 10AM and found him dead, sitting in his car. The authorities do not suspect any foul play and Dorman reportedly suffered from heart problems.
Dorman joined Iron Butterfly in late 1967, and played on “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida,” the 17-minute title track to the San Diego-based group’s second album. The song went on to become Iron Butterfly’s biggest hit and a classic rock radio staple.
Watch ‘In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida’ Video
Whatever money he doesn’t use this season basically just goes away. It’s not going into anything else and it certainly won’t be added to the 2014 payroll. I also believe that its possible the Braves don’t have alot of available money, Liberty really has just slashed payroll. Maybe there upset that we paid Derek Lowe 10 million last season to play on another team, so were not getting that 10 million in payroll back from Liberty until 2014…
Wren is not gonna be able to use most of that money for a mid season trade.
December 22nd, 20129:00 am
Amen to Preston’s post at 8:39. I kept looking for CCR, Steve Earle,Hank 3 and the like, but never found them. Guess the world of music has just passed me by. I’ll get my fill of the hip-hop at the gas station or the red lights when other people think I nee
d to hear their noise blasting in my ear.
December 22nd, 20129:01 am
Nothing else to do, so let’s explore a Stanton trade.
We trade Freeman, with All-Star or near All-Star potential. Let’s compare Bill James 2013 for each:
Stanton .284 .365 .605 .970
Freeman .282 .358 .481 .839
Obviously, here is where we benefit greatly.
But we also trade Francisco, who would be very popular in Miami. Compare his line with current Marlins 3B Dobbs, showing career stats for both as 3Bmen, without pinch hitting:
Dobbs .255 .296 .384 .679
Francisco .281 .312 .478 .790
This frees up Miami 1B Logan Morrison to play OF, so they still have a MLB caliber player to replace Stanton. They have lost 39 OPS points in the deal so far. It looks like they are replacing Pierre anyway, so they can replace him with a RHB to balance their lineup.
Dobbs is a dreadful fielder at 3B. Francisco is only average to slightly below average, but a big improvement. He would be hugely popular in Miami.
We then include Teheran or Delgado. They are from Columbia and Panama. Either would be very popular in Miami as well.
Of course, we then sign LaRoche.
Francisco, Freeman, and Teheran/Delgado might not work. But it has some attraction from Miami’s point of view.
This is the season of overpay, both for trades and free agents. I agree with the thought that Wren misjudged the market and now we are left with choices that seem unpalatable. I really believe taking a chance on Gattis being a primary prospect and thinking Francisco will suddenly be something that he has not been so far in his career will be a mistake. They really need a short term answer in LF and give Gattis one year in AAA and time to develop.
December 22nd, 20129:09 am
I was surprised that Wren didn’t come out and praise someone like Todd Cunningham, and say he isn’t quite ready so were looking for a stop gap for LF, and then a week later say Todd is our guy. Then he fails horribly until we finally replace him with Gattis who most of us thought should get the nod to begin with. Or hell Gattis could be the 1st guy…
Kinda like the whole Pastornicky-Simmons thing. That whole situation really made me scratch my head, Wren was basically talking out of his butt about SS going into the 2012 season.
December 22nd, 20129:17 am
For all of our talk about left field/3rd base, next season’s success will be decided by three players. Can Medlen and Minor continue their success at the end of last year and can Simmons stay on the field and off the DL. I don’t fret so much about left field unless we end up with a rag-armed statue out there. Watching the playoffs and seeing how the left field play of Blanco helped the Giant pitchers get out of trouble made it seem like defense in left field is so often overlooked.
December 22nd, 20129:24 am
I’d really hate to see the hue and cry from the malcontents if this team were trully as bad as made out to be.
December 22nd, 20129:30 am
Iron Butterfly hasn’t been a long lived band it appears. They’ve already lost two guitarists – ERic Brann and El Rhino (Larry reinhardt from Macon), several others who played with the band well after their heyday and now Dorman, who also played with the very good, but short lived band Captain Beyond, with Rhinehardt and Rod Evans, the origional Deep Purple vocalist of Hey Joe fame.
Were looking for Upton, Uggla, and McCann to rebound or improve.
Were looking for Heyward, Freeman, and Simmons to take another step forward.
Were looking for Teheran or Delgado to step up and be productive.
Were looking for Medlen and Minor to continue there success.
Were looking for veterans Hudson and Maholm to give us what’s expected.
Were looking for a dominant bullpen again that should be even better with Walden added.
Were looking for some kind of productive combination of in-house guys for 3B/LF platoon situation.
Were looking for a 2nd half boost by Brandon Beachy when he returns.
How many of these will happen to some extent, and how many don’t? It’s about about maintaining and improving. There could be some declining, injuries, and fails with some of these.
December 22nd, 20129:31 am
Logan Morrison has very little 1B experience, but is on their depth chart as #1 there right now. He also hit poorly when playing 1B versus LF. So they must feel uneasy about that position, and would move Morrison back to OF if they could.
Freeman, Francisco, Delgado, for Stanton? Maybe TOBF has already floated this, and it’s been shot down.
December 22nd, 20129:33 am
Old man, I can see where you were going with Freeman + Francisco. Well thought out and does work for both teams. Then we stop and that’s the trade. The balance of the value is that Freeman and Francisco fill 2 spots for less $$$$ than Stanton would. There’s no need for a 3rd Major League ready piece.
December 22nd, 20129:34 am
How was Wren talking out of his butt about Pastor/Siomm,ons? They thought The Rev was ready after the offensive year he’d had in 2011 and that Simmons wasn’t. Add to that the fact that Simmons left ST injured…….They did what needed to do and ot woprked out pretty well, didn’t it? They found Simmons was ready and Pastornicky wasn’t and dealt with it.
While it may be fun to talk about it’s not happening. Stanton would easily be the best trade target out there over every single player we’ve discussed on this blog as targets. Wren couldn’t land any of them, so why expect or even talk about getting Stanton?
December 22nd, 20129:37 am
Wren said Pastornicky wasn’t ready and we needed a stop gap. We had Jack Wilson lined up to be our backup SS to the stop gap. A week went by and all of a sudden Pastornicky is ready and our guy. I shouldn’t have added the Simmons part. I get that Simmons wasn’t ready at the start.
December 22nd, 20129:38 am
vabravesfan – sure, all of that’s true but every team has similar ?’s because that’s just the nature of baseball. If I were the Yankees for instance I’d be far more worried than us with all the age accumulated on their team. And their payroll dwarfs ours. Overall we’re sitting pretty and project into the playoffs again.
December 22nd, 20129:44 am
If the Marlins trade Stanton, they will have no attendance next year. They won’t trade him.
I think we know what we have in a Juan Francisco and Reed Johnson platoon. I’m intrigued by Evan Gattis tho, while I’m not optimistic about it, I’d almost rather just give Gattis the job if he plays well in Spring.
Also there’s a part of me that say’s hell with it, play Francisco at 3B everyday cause I think he’ll hit 25-30 HR… He could be a Mark Reynolds type hitter.
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