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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,304 comments Add your comment
Heath
December 21st, 2012
11:55 am
Rick C:
What youre shoeing so far doesnt look to bad. Got a total career slash line outside of the NLWest parks?
chipontheroad
December 21st, 2012
11:56 am
No just slow and wild
Bobbymahlon
December 21st, 2012
11:58 am
Rick C- Point well made but until we give these two a chance we will never know if they have the stuff to be good enough to help us in any way. What I’m saying don’t waste our money on guys who are proven to be hang on type of players when we may players in our own system that might turn out to be impact players.
Rick C
December 21st, 2012
11:58 am
Heath, no I don’t know any sites that put out stats versus different divisions.
George_George
December 21st, 2012
11:58 am
kenhotlanta
December 21st, 2012
10:34 am
It’s pretty obvious the AJC cut out their IT dept in another cost cutting effort because accessing and participating on this blog gets harder and more stressful every day. Everyone has been saying for weeks that we have major issues with no response or feedback.
Didn’t they just roll out an all new digital edition? I feel for the folks that took that puppy for a test drive!
*************
AGREED, AGREED, AGREED.
nolie
December 21st, 2012
11:58 am
yeah Hairston offers more pop than Johnson, but I hope we pass. last season was not what he usually produces.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
12:00 pm
keithlaw @keithlaw
Missed the year after TJ. “@kbukie: @keithlaw You don’t think Vizcaino is a promising starter prospect?”
I still thought of him as a starter prospect until the surgery
Rick C
December 21st, 2012
12:01 pm
Bobbmaholn, I agree that they deserve a shot, it’s just hard to rely on so many inexperienced and no experience players when you are trying to contend.
Heath
December 21st, 2012
12:02 pm
Lew:
I meant are you volunteering to get the career slash line for fowler outside of the NL west… Especially if it could be by year?
(I’m at work so I can’t dive to deep into the research right now.)
nolie
December 21st, 2012
12:02 pm
I thought we got feedback from IT, we were told that we were the cause by doing something incorrectly each time.
Like clicking on submit or refresh the wrong way. With that attitude it will never get fixed.
Braves Fan for 55 yrs
December 21st, 2012
12:08 pm
DOB Are you hearing any rumors about the Angel Mark Trumbo to the Braves. And can we please get a decent play by play man and get rid of Mr. Metaphor, silly Chip Caray. Pleaseeeeeeeee.
Heath
December 21st, 2012
12:08 pm
I can look into the stats later after work if need be. I was just curious if anyone had thought of and put that info together.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 21st, 2012
12:11 pm
Here’s something for the Fowler fans to look up and post:What is his road stats outside of the NL West?
Here’s what Fowler’s predicted stat line would be as an Atlanta Brave, by doing a little spreadsheet magic and extrapolating his ballpark #’s over the approximate number of games he would play in each ballpark as an Atlanta Brave (I simplified using 81 games in ATL and 6 games each for the other NL teams, no interleague included to keep it simple).
PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP SH SF IBB BA OBP SLG OPS
762 665 72 151 39 16 4 37 16 6 91 179 3 2 1 0 0.227 0.322 0.352 0.673
Seattle Braves
December 21st, 2012
12:11 pm
Trumbo isnt going to be traded.
glove51
December 21st, 2012
12:13 pm
DOB Said: ” Then it sounds like you could use another winter sports preoccupation. May I suggest the Jayhawks and superb freshman shooting guard Ben McLemore? Big game tomorrow against Okie State. Always a difficult game at Gallagher-Iba Arena in Stillwater, the toughest place to play in the Big 12 outside of Allen Fieldhouse.”
Dave, you’re jupming ahead a bit. I’m going to Stillwater tomorrow for the game, but it won’t be against KU unfortunately. We play Tennessee Tech tomorrow. Looking forward to Gonzaga on the afternoon of 12/31. We play KU in GIA on Feb 20.
Oh! Now I see how you made the mistake. The Jayhawks are actually playing at Ohio St. tomorrow.
cabravesfan
December 21st, 2012
12:14 pm
Trumbo is NOT going to be traded- nor is Bourjos. Not anymore.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
12:14 pm
Looks like outside of the NL West parks…
561 PAs, 487 ABs, 127 Hits, 30 douvles, 11 triples, 5 HR, 62 BB
.261/.337/.398.735
Roughly the same as his overall away stats.
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2012
12:16 pm
Reading latest report from Phillies writer Jim Salisbury (CSNPhilly.com), and it’s stunning how similar the Phillies’ need and pursuits of a RHH outfielder resemble those of the Braves.
He wrote:
The Phillies have cast many lines in trying to get an outfield bat. They expressed interest in free agent Torii Hunter, who signed with the Tigers. They made offers to free agents B.J. Upton, Angel Pagan and Ichiro Suzuki. All signed elsewhere. They pursued Minnesota’s Josh Willingham in a trade. They inquired about Seattle’s Franklin Gutierrez, Colorado’s Dexter Fowler and Arizona’s Justin Upton. There were no fits.
The market for free-agent outfielders has shrunk. The Phils don’t appear to be in on Nick Swisher nor Michael Bourn. They like Ross, but not his price tag. Hairston, 32, has emerged as a target, according to sources. He hit .263 with 20 homers, 57 RBIs and an .803 OPS in 377 at-bats with the Mets last season. The Phillies tried to trade for Hairston when he was with San Diego in 2009.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
12:16 pm
the recalulated away stats I did this morning… page 18. Only excluding Coor’s, and in 2009, 2011, and 2012…. he has a .262/.337/.396/.733 line on the road
DS1
December 21st, 2012
12:21 pm
I have always thought Franklin Gutierrez might be a good pickup. What’s the story on his availability?
Heath
December 21st, 2012
12:24 pm
Lemke’s Knuckler:
You using stats while playing in ATL? Ok if you did–I probably would have left them out because he wouldn’t be “away” anymore nor would be be facing ATL pitching.
kenhotlanta
December 21st, 2012
12:24 pm
DS1: Merry Christmas to you and your family, too, Wayne. And here’s hoping 2013 is a better year for all of us old farts with health issues, I am sick and tired of being sick and tired!
Disgusted
December 21st, 2012
12:27 pm
Franklin Gutierrez was an outstanding player before injuries.
I hope he is not done like Grady Sizemore, Grady is a bigger long shot. Very brilliant career cut short — had early Cooperstown projections. Sad.
Heath
December 21st, 2012
12:28 pm
TOBF:
If those stats are right (I’ll assume they are), then that’s not to bad. I would have thought they’d be higher than overall numbers.
George_George
December 21st, 2012
12:30 pm
I am wondering if all AJC blogs [ sports and non-sports ] run as slow and poorly as BRAVES does?
AJC should be ashamed of themselves.
RC
December 21st, 2012
12:41 pm
Reading latest report from Phillies writer Jim Salisbury (CSNPhilly.com), and it’s stunning how similar the Phillies’ need and pursuits of a RHH outfielder resemble those of the Braves.
I thought about this the other day. The difference is that Wren has gone out and signed one of the top CF on the market, while Amaro Jr. has traded for Juan Pierre-lite and signed a middle relief pitcher for $7 million a year.
Advantage Wren.
DAP
December 21st, 2012
12:42 pm
nolie I showed you your exact response to my earlier post and that I responded to
yeah you did, and it showed that i never mentioned anyone batting 2nd or addressed it. the only thing i said to you was that uggla and upton career OBP’s are similar. how did that mean im talking about someone batting 2nd, when i didnt address it at all and had previously mentioned it at all? you clearly misunderstood. the thought of upton hitting 2nd never even crossed my mind, and i certainly didnt suggest or endorse or even respond to such an idea. get over it.
RC
December 21st, 2012
12:44 pm
I am wondering if all AJC blogs [ sports and non-sports ] run as slow and poorly as BRAVES does?
AJC should be ashamed of themselves.
But if they changed, I wouldn’t be able to:
Roll over to compare Windows Phone to Liz’s iPhone!
Do whatever “g +1″ means!
Browse Sunday Inserts!
see the “Holiday Guide”!
Play “Sack Schultz” NOW!!!
Nominate a Nurse!
Question Mark!
Heath
December 21st, 2012
12:50 pm
Ok:
Was to curious. Last year based on my calculations Fowler did this outside of NL West parks (all other parks):
119 AB, 35 H, 6 2B, 1 3B, 3 HR, 17 BB, 53 K
Slash line of: .294/.382/.437/.819
Anyone care to do the discount double check on me? If this is right…. Pay for him
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2012
12:52 pm
For those wondering about Freeman’s vision difficulties, he’s decided not to get Lasik this offseason. If you recall, he said after season ended that he’d explore Lasik, but that he’d been advised he was still too young to get the procedure because of how the eye changes at that age, etc.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 21st, 2012
12:52 pm
You using stats while playing in ATL? Ok if you did–I probably would have left them out because he wouldn’t be “away” anymore nor would be be facing ATL pitching.
That would eliminate 1/2 of the sample size for the ballpark-based projection. Are you a political pollster?
Mixxo
December 21st, 2012
12:53 pm
“…Thank you for the support. It so sick to finish six games better than the other team and not make the playoffs because of a single game….” – georgie
Huh? We LOST that game because of our piss-poor defense, a questionable call and our perpetual lack of hitting in the clutch. “Good” teams win those games.
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2012
12:58 pm
glove51: Yes, thank you — KU vs. Ohio State at Columbus tomorrow, national TV (CBS). Don’t know why I said Okie State (well, besides the OSU, obviously). I knew that and was watching Ohio State last week, thinking how tough this game will be. Buckeyes are ranked just ahead of KU in top 10 and will be favored (OSU probably won’t be, depending what happens between now and late Febuary, but Gallagher-Iba is worth plenty of points — place is always loud, and louder when Jayhawks play there).
I covered a game while in college, KU at Okla. State before they raised the roof and remodeled that arena. And back then it was even louder, because it was as small and low-ceilinged as Cameron Indoor Stadium. Loudest place KU played on road, although the old arena at Mizzou was also awful tough road venue for Jayhawks back then.
Heath
December 21st, 2012
1:01 pm
For 2011:
Fowler performance outside of any NL West park:
118 AB, 32 H, 4 2B, 2 3B, 0 HR, 18 BB, 36 K
Slash line of: .271/.368/.339/.707
Looks like improvement from 2011 to 2012…. But even 2011 wasn’t awful for a leadoff guy. But my 2012 calculations look pretty good.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
December 21st, 2012
1:03 pm
I’m less worried about the Braves’ prospects next season than I am about the prospect of this effed-up website ever being fixed…
glove51
December 21st, 2012
1:08 pm
I’ll bet you $50 oSu beats KU in Stillwater this season.
kenhotlanta
December 21st, 2012
1:08 pm
From John Dewan and ACTA Sports, here are the best defensive teams from last season:
The best defensive teams in 2012:
Team Defensive Runs Saved
Toronto Blue Jays 70
Atlanta Braves 70
Los Angeles Angels 55
Boston Red Sox 50
Cincinnati Reds 38
The five best defensive teams found several different ways to make it on the list. The Toronto Blue Jays and Boston Red Sox played excellent infield defense. For the Blue Jays this included 20 Defensive Runs Saved by Brett Lawrie at third base and 14 by Yunel Escobar at shortstop. The Red Sox benefited from 14 runs saved by Mike Aviles at shortstop, 11 by Dustin Pedroia at second base, and 16 by Adrian Gonzalez at first base.
The Braves and the Angels played excellent outfield defense. The Braves saw a combined 55 Defensive Runs Saved from Martin Prado, Michael Bourn, and Jason Heyward—each of them either first or second at their position in baseball—while the Angels saved 32 of their 55 total runs in center field because of Mike Trout and Peter Bourjos.
The Reds had the best defensive pitching staff. Reds pitchers saved the team 23 runs defensively, which was seven runs better than the Diamondbacks, the closest team to them.
Heath
December 21st, 2012
1:09 pm
If those two seasons are correct… Fowler’s 2-year averages outside if any NL West park:
237 AB, 67 H, 10 2B, 3 3B, 3 HR, 35 BB, 89 K
Slash line of: .283/.375/.388/.763
I think I could take that from a lead off man.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 21st, 2012
1:11 pm
Looks like improvement from 2011 to 2012…. But even 2011 wasn’t awful for a leadoff guy. But my 2012 calculations look pretty good
You’re killing me dude. Fowler is a decent ballplayer, but he’s not worth trading any of our top prospects. You can keep cutting down the sample size to jack up your projections and keep convincing yourself otherwise, but it’s a waste of time my friend.
Heath
December 21st, 2012
1:11 pm
Lew:
How’s those numbers look to you, sir?
Southpaw
December 21st, 2012
1:13 pm
Get Swisher now. Simmons or Prado can lead off. Shoot,
Heyward could lead off. Swisher is a winner.
Rick C
December 21st, 2012
1:15 pm
I don’t see how removing the NL West ballparks helps in analyzing Fowler as a potential Brave. CBP is really the only hitter friendly park in the NL East. I’m surprised by Fowler’s numbers at Nats’ Park, but he has unsurprisingly done well at CBP, and poorly to average at Turner, Citi, and Marlins Park.
Heath
December 21st, 2012
1:17 pm
Lemke’s Knuckler:
If you go back to read through all the posts this offseason made my me… I’ve never really advocated Fowler. I’ve talked more about him today than all the rest of the offseason combined. That said, the numbers I posted just represent what he HAS done in the ballparks he’d see more of outside the NL West if traded. It’s not a perfect science…I admit that. But it is interesting to see how he does outside of the NL West nonetheless (since he’d have far fewer plate appearances in those parks as a Brave). It’s ok man (I assume–if not, I apologize), no need to get edgy about it.
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2012
1:19 pm
DOB Are you hearing any rumors about the Angel Mark Trumbo to the Braves. — Braves Fan for 55 yrs
There really never were any Braves rumors regarding Trumbo, just hopeful speculation on part of many. But anyway, it now looks as if Angels have no intentions of trading Trumbo, after they traded Kendrys Morales this week. Trumbo likely to DH.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 21st, 2012
1:22 pm
no need to get edgy about it.
Edgy? Who’s edgy? Not me. What are you talking about? Edgy? Edgy?
No worries, I just feel very strongly that Fowler is no better than our internal options, considering what it would cost to get him.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
1:26 pm
In NL East ballparks, Fowler has a .269/.340/.396/.736 line (in 203 PAs, 182 ABs)… small sample size, I know. Take out facing Braves pitching, (against whom he has a .606 OPS in 53 PAs), he improves to .294/.353/.387/.740 in 150 PAs (136 ABs)
Ernest
December 21st, 2012
1:34 pm
Sorry if this has been already asked but I heard Chris Dimino on 790theZone ’speculate’ that Bourn could come back for at least one year, given the market has really cooled on him. If done, Upton would move to LF (contrary to what Wren said). Given Chris’s inside connections with the Braves, is there any validity to this?
brian
December 21st, 2012
1:34 pm
lasik at a young age is a mistake. Ask McCann
Rick C
December 21st, 2012
1:41 pm
TOBF, it’s hard to say though if the Braves’ pitching is the cause for his poor numbers at Turner, or if it’s because of Turner Field, or some combination of the two. Overall he has hit 274/400/421 against the Braves, so obviously he plays much better against them at home.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
1:53 pm
I think part of the reason Fowler’s stats may look so bad is because of AT&T and Petco… OPS under .600 there in 200+ PAs. Hits well at Chase Field and Coors, .650 at Chavez Ravine (.270 avg. tho)
If I take out ATT (where he does worst) he improves to .254/.328/.383/.711 on the road. Take out Petco, and he goes up to .262/.335/.397/.732.
Petco and ATT are two of the hardest parks to hit at, no? And not having to play there frequently plus not having the anti-Coors effect on him on the road… not totally a bad acquisition I guess. Wouldn’t pay too much though, he’s a leadoff hitter.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
1:54 pm
interesting point Rick…
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
2:02 pm
http://www.talkingchop.com/2012/12/21/3789158/braves-contract-extension-analysis-martin-prado
Given that the final arbitration year’s salary is typically around 80% of the player’s “true” free-market value, that puts Prado at around a $10M/year salary. That is a bit low, though, based on Prado’s past performance.
Since Prado has been a full-time player for four seasons now, we can use his average performance in that span (not counting his partial seasons before 2009) as our baseline. Here are his offensive full-season averages: .294/.342/.436, 12 HR, .339 wOBA, 110 wRC+
Those are solid numbers: about 10% better than league average according to wRC+, which adjusts for league and ballpark effects. That’s about 10 runs (or 1 win) better than the league average, per season.
Offense is not the entire picture, of course. A huge part of Prado’s value is tied to his defensive aptitude. Specifically, Prado has played six positions (all but pitcher, catcher, and center field) and has generally played them well. The problem with Prado’s versatility is that he hasn’t played enough at any position to get an adequate sample size.
Still, we can regress his defensive statistics to the mean. The results imply that Prado is solidly above average (about +7 runs/year) in left field, somewhat below average (-3 runs) at second base, and average to good (+1 to +8) at third base. Thus, Prado offers about the same overall defensive value at each position. Even if Prado hits at a league-average rate (and remember, he’s been about 10% better so far), he’d be worth around 2.5 Wins Above Replacement (WAR) at any of these positions.
Putting it all together, we get a player who has been worth about 15 WAR over the past 4 seasons (15.0 in FanGraphs’ version, 14.9 in Baseball-Reference’s), or about 3.75 wins per year. Using the rule of thumb that teams will pay around $4.5 million per win on the free market, that implies that Prado would be worth a bit under $17M/year in free agency, were he available right now.
Of course, Prado is not yet in free agency, so we must discount that value. Let’s assume that Prado must sacrifice 10% to 20% of his “true” worth in exchange for the lower risk in case he has a down year or gets hurt in 2013. That leaves his baseline value in a range from $13.5 to $15 million per season.
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2012
2:04 pm
Freeman’s had much more comfort with the new contacts he’s been wearing this winter.
Rick C
December 21st, 2012
2:05 pm
DOB, has Freeman’s thumb been able to heal up?
Tomas
December 21st, 2012
2:08 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan, take out Pecto for Will Venable 286/365/509.
I know I might sound irritating at this point since all my post have been about Will Venable since yesterday, but I’m sorry why are we talking about Fowler when Venable is better and less expensive.
WAR which rates everything gives
Will Venable 2.7 WAR
Dexter Fowler 2.9 WAR
So Fowler is 0.2 WAR better than Venable, are you prepared to trade Mike Minor for an extra 0.2 WAR?
Myself, I’m not trading Minor unless Trout is on the other side of the conversation.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
2:12 pm
1 comparison for Prado in that article is Dan Uggla… both had a similar history when their time for an extension came up… but Prado is younger. So Prado is considered better. May require a slight boost on Uggla’s salary to lock up Prado.
There is one solid comp, though, and it hits close to home: the Braves’ extension of Dan Uggla before the 2011 season. Uggla, like Prado, had one year of team control left. He had been worth 3.9 WAR per year in his five previous full seasons, just a bit more than Prado’s average. However, given that Prado is younger and more valuable defensively (and thus less likely to be a total black hole of value in the later years of an extension), you’d have to think that he’s worth at least as much as Uggla, who got $62M guaranteed.
So if Prado is worth slightly more than Uggla, he’d need to get a guarantee of a little more than $62 million from 2013 through 2017. That puts us right in between the history-based $11M/year and the value-based $14M/year contracts I proposed above. Perhaps something like this:
$9M in 2013
$13.25M per year in 2014-2017
$8M team option in 2018 with a $1M buyout
That’s $63M guaranteed over 5 years, or $70M over 6 if the Braves exercise the option. The cheap team option (in Prado’s age-34 season) gives the Braves some added upside in exchange for the higher yearly value from 2014-17.
P Rose
December 21st, 2012
2:14 pm
Frank, please get a left fielder and stop bouncing Prado all over the place. He deserves the third base job.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
2:14 pm
I think his splits against LHP are concerning though… not much on base ability against southpaws
Murph
December 21st, 2012
2:15 pm
$15mil per year for Prado?
Been nice knowin’ ya Martin. Have fun on whatever team you’re on next season.
keyLargo
December 21st, 2012
2:29 pm
What’s the obsession with Prado playing an infield position? He hasn’t “earned” anything. This is a team game. Chipper Jones played LF 301 games in 2002 and 2003 because the Braves had Vinnie Castilla to play 3rd which made the Braves better. I think he might have been a little better than Prado.
Heath
December 21st, 2012
2:31 pm
Murph:
Agreed. Marteen isn’t getting $15M from the Braves. I doubt from anyone. $10M…ish.
RC
December 21st, 2012
2:33 pm
Chipper Jones played LF 301 games in 2002 and 2003 because the Braves had Vinnie Castilla to play 3rd which made the Braves better.
Whoa….slow down there champ. While that was the thought behind the moves, I’d argue it’s pretty generous to say that Vinny Castilla “made the Braves better”.
keyLargo
December 21st, 2012
2:37 pm
The Braves won 101 games both years Castilla played 3rd. He was a better glove than CJ and CJ was a better hitter than anyone we had in LF.
Ken Stallings
December 21st, 2012
2:44 pm
old man,
Interesting analogy, but the crews of those bombers in World War II were doing their own jobs even on the run-in. They didn’t have time to wonder when the bombs would be dropped. Everyone had a job to perform. Besides, they knew if they missed the target they would just have to return again.
Your analogy seems to echo the Hollywood scene from the second Memphis Belle movie. Looks good in a movie, but aircrews don’t act that way in real life. The documentary filmed on the actual mission is, of course, far more realistic, and shows how calm the crew was.
RC
December 21st, 2012
2:46 pm
The Braves won 101 games both years Castilla played 3rd. He was a better glove than CJ and CJ was a better hitter than anyone we had in LF.
Castilla was ok the 2nd year in Atlanta, but that first year the 101 wins had a lot more to do with a TEAM ERA of 3.13 than anything Castilla did in the field or at the plate. Looking back at how terrible the offense was that year it’s amazing that the Braves did win many games. It pretty much consisted of Furcal leading off, then Andruw, Chipper, and Sheffield knocking him (and themselves) in. The rest of the team was a trainwreck offensively.
What’s really interesting is to then compare it to the 2003 team, which only switched Lockhart for Giles and Franco for Fick, but scored a TON more runs. As in, 199 MORE runs than the previous year (907 to 708).
Ken Stallings
December 21st, 2012
2:49 pm
David,
Do you see a realistic chance that Gattis might impress in spring training enough to get the starting left field job and move Prado to third base?
nolie
December 21st, 2012
2:51 pm
yeah you did, and it showed that i never mentioned anyone batting 2nd or addressed DAP
the point I made was that Uggla had a higher OBP than Upton. your response said I was only lookinging at last season. my response to that was the last 4 years of each of their OBPs. everything else you are throwing out is nothing but a strawman, your response said I was looking at one year and my response showed I was not. no matter what other discussions you had about them with anybody else, the essensc of the first two posts was that you claimed the OBP difference was based on just the last season and I refuted that
nolie
December 21st, 2012
2:56 pm
what do we care about how Fowler performed this season out of the NL West? meaningless sample sizes, could be entirely different another season. Y’all are going kinda crazy with all the extreme breakdowns lately, I blame it all on Old Man …
Dan Uggla
December 21st, 2012
2:56 pm
“$15mil per year for Prado?”
Yeah, thats too much money for a non-power hitter
Duh.
nolie
December 21st, 2012
2:59 pm
I doubt anybody is gonna give Prado 15 mil per
Patrick
December 21st, 2012
3:03 pm
The Braves are among the teams interested in free agent outfielder Scott Hairston, David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports (on Twitter). Hairston could address the Braves’ need for a left fielder, but he might be too expensive for Atlanta.
Did we sign a Free Agent that I’m not aware of?!?!
How in the hell can the Braves not afford Scott Hairston?????
He is barely a mediocre player and has never been a consistent starter. He’s no huge offensive threat.
This has become a very bizarre offseason after the Upton signing….
Wren won’t spend any more money even though it’s reported that he has roughly 10+million available
He won’t trade anyone to acquire a left fielder and leadoff hitter. He’s just sat by as they’ve all gone elsewhere (most of them to the biggest divison rivals).
I think we can all now read between the lines and see that this team is pretty much done trying to improve and compete in the National League. The Braves are a middle of the pack team with a payroll in the $83 million dollar range and that’s that.
Thank you Braves front office for lying to the fans about trying to put a championship team on the field. And Wren lying about his 2 “simple” offseason needs: replace our All-Star leadoff hitting CF and All-Star face of the franchise, best and most feared hitter on the team 3B. He couldn’t even accomplish that.
Until the Braves front office does something to prove me wrong. This is the message that they’re sending out the the fans.
….and let the onslought of nasty comments thrown my way by all that feel the need to tear a fellow Braves fan down for speaking his mind begin now….
Rick C
December 21st, 2012
3:05 pm
Patrick, he means that Hairston’s likely price will cost more than the Braves would pay for the role he’d serve on the team. Not that hard to understand. It’s pretty much the same thing that happened with David Ross.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
3:11 pm
My numbers were career numbers noles… 561 PAs outside the NL West… also posted his road numbers taking out just Petco and ATT, that’s 809 PAs.
For his NL East stats, yes, that is a small sample size. 203 PAs total, 150 if we take out the Braves.
Still was fun!
JC Brave
December 21st, 2012
3:11 pm
Mark Bowman @mlbbowman
They say Kozma called for it. RT @bravesfan9586: Did you hear an asteroid landed in LF at the Ted and Sam Holbrook called an infield fly?
unbelievable
December 21st, 2012
3:16 pm
Hairston has no place on this team, thats what Reed Johnson is here for. Hairston isnt a starter. More an more bench players being named.
Disgusted
December 21st, 2012
3:16 pm
….and let the onslought of nasty comments thrown my way by all that feel the need to tear a fellow Braves fan down for speaking his mind begin now….
Patrick — I for one will not throw any nasty comments your way — until we ever get new ownership in here this is how this operation is going to be run. I am not looking forward to beyond 2013 after we lose Huddy, Malholm and B-Mac & rest assured we are not getting a catcher who can do what Mc Cann can do even as he settles in a bit past his prime.
This medicore payroll is bull stuff — and I have said it before that by late decade we are going to be a bottom 5 payroll just wait and see.
Its on the parent corporation more than Wren. The cost of doing business has gone too high for Liberty Media and their corporate shirts — they need to get out.
The revenues in the game are growing — the TV deal is a lame excuse to cut payroll. I do not believe they are losing anything.
Note that Scott Hairston is no big loss — if we cannot get Swisher or Cody Ross might as well pass on what is left.
Disgusted
December 21st, 2012
3:20 pm
Next 2 off seasons will not he happy when next yr we lose Huddy, Malholm and B-Mac and after 14 we lose Prado.
The feeder system might replace the pitchers, but they better hope that Bethancourt is ready by 14 and Ahmed can do similar to what Prado can do by 2015.
Its still a BS way of running an operation.
Efrim
December 21st, 2012
3:20 pm
I think Prado will get $12 million a year out on the open market. If he has a .800 season – five years, $60 million to be some teams 3rd baseman. He has a lot of value there with how bad the position is across baseball.
That’s worth a qualifying offer.
nolie
December 21st, 2012
3:20 pm
Ross is no big loss either, I wouldn’t mind Swish at all though but no way are they spending anywhere near what he has been asking for so far
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
3:22 pm
Prado’s a FA after next season too, Disgusted… just like Huddy, Maholm, and Mac.
Disgusted
December 21st, 2012
3:23 pm
Ross is better than most are giving him credit for — not saying that what is in house cannot do the job but Ross’ 5 yr record does show 3 yrs of 21 to 24 HRS and good XBH pop and an OPB in the mid .320’s.
He is more than a platoon player — he gets 500 AB a yr.
Anyway, its still a decent team for now but where is payroll going?????? Seems like the objective is to trend downward. Before long are we going to be a 65 to 70 mil roll?????? That is not good.
We did not know the plan was to cut payroll, but it is what it is.
JC Brave
December 21st, 2012
3:26 pm
Mark Bowman @mlbbowman
Braves’ additional moves likely to come from within atmlb.com/UWeOLZ via @Braves
After reading this from Bowman, I believe the possibilities of a trade taking place have increased.
JC Brave
December 21st, 2012
3:30 pm
Mark Bowman @mlbbowman
Braves RHP Billy Bullock has been suspended 50 games following 2nd violation of the Minor League Drug Prevention and Treatment Program.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 21st, 2012
3:33 pm
Mark Bowman @mlbbowman
Braves RHP Billy Bullock has been suspended 50 games following 2nd violation of the Minor League Drug Prevention and Treatment Program
Geez… 2nd violation. Should be a year-long one. He’s on the 40, wasn’t he?
Disgusted
December 21st, 2012
3:33 pm
You are right TOBF — Prado is gone after 13, not 14.
This is the last yr we have a seriously competitive team given that 4 good key pieces are walking away after 2013.
So lets enjoy this yr like its our last good one. Cause that is when the sky will fall — payroll is probably going to drop by a good 20 mil as I see it.
That is what they want, that is what they are gonna get, cause they are cheap.
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2012
3:33 pm
Braves minor league pitcher Billy Bullock suspended 50 games for second violation of MiLB prevent and treatment program for “drug of abuse.” He finished last year at Triple-A Gwinnett and had a 6.34 ERA in 40 appearances for Double-A Mississippi and Gwinnett, with 67 strikeouts and whopping 56 walks in 59-2/3 innings.
Disgusted
December 21st, 2012
3:34 pm
Billy Bullock — No big loss, not a real prospect anyway.
Good riddance — no need for 6.34 ERA and walk the dog in the park guys.
Wild Thing –
Rick C
December 21st, 2012
3:37 pm
DOB, do you know how Freeman’s thumb is doing?
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2012
3:38 pm
Baseball drug program lists “drugs of abuse” as cocaine, LSD, pot, opiates (heroin, etc), ecstasy, GHB and PCP. In contrast to performance-enhancing drugs like steroids and HGH.
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2012
3:39 pm
Braves got Bullock in a March 2011 trade from Minnesota in exchange for LH Scott Diamond, after Twins took Diamond in Rule 5 draft the previous December.
TennesseePaul
December 21st, 2012
3:45 pm
Scott Diamond is in the Twins rotation. Didn’t have that bad of a year last year. Pretty good for a Rule 5 pick up. Wasn’t Johan Santana also a Rule 5 pick for the Twins?
…
And nope. He was a rule 5 pick by the Marlins who turned around and traded him to the Twins for Jared Camp who never made it to the show.
Ggs
December 21st, 2012
3:49 pm
At this rate I’d rather see us get David DeJesus than sign Scott Hairston.I agree with what others have said regarding the Braves lack of interest in further improving this team since signing Upton.Maybe Cody Ross wouldn’t be so bad.Why didn’t we get Alex Gordon?
Reality
December 21st, 2012
3:52 pm
I’d rather have a gamer like Prado than BJ Upton any day.
Prado will end up leaving & the homers will be on here quibbling over who is more overpaid: Dan Uggla or BJ Upton.
Braves players & fans had better get a chiropractor because y’all will have stiff necks looking up to the Washington Nationals the next several years.
Caseyatthebat
December 21st, 2012
3:56 pm
Have the Braves ever looked at Alejandro De Aza?
Murph
December 21st, 2012
3:56 pm
It’s funny how so many on here are ready to crucify Upton and they’ve never even seen him play.
How about we give him a few AB’s in a Braves uniform first? See how he does?
ugaaccountant
December 21st, 2012
4:08 pm
Umm, using these stats here, we’d expect about 250 K’s if we brought in Fowler as a leadoff hitter? I know it’s more at bats, but that would dwarf Uggla and crew.
Fowler’s 2-year averages outside if any NL West park:
237 AB, 67 H, 10 2B, 3 3B, 3 HR, 35 BB, 89 K
ugaaccountant
December 21st, 2012
4:13 pm
Disgusted, it’s actually a realistic way of running an operation. We don’t have a sugar daddy owner just financing a dream team like say the Dodgers. We have a budget the reflects our attendance, ticket prices, and tv deal fairly accurately. If we want better players, we need to either show up more or pay more per ticket.
Although the dodgers owners are just fronting some cash until this unbelievable TV deal starts paying all these salaries anyway.
ugaaccountant
December 21st, 2012
4:13 pm
Disgusted, it’s actually a realistic way of running an operation. We don’t have a sugar daddy owner just financing a dream team like say the Dodgers. We have a budget the reflects our attendance, ticket prices, and tv deal fairly accurately. If we want better players, we need to either show up more or pay more per ticket.
Although the dodgers owners are just fronting some cash until this unbelievable TV deal starts paying all these salaries anyway.
ugaaccountant
December 21st, 2012
4:13 pm
Disgusted, it’s actually a realistic way of running an operation. We don’t have a sugar daddy owner just financing a dream team like say the Dodgers. We have a budget the reflects our attendance, ticket prices, and tv deal fairly accurately. If we want better players, we need to either show up more or pay more per ticket.
Although the dodgers owners are just fronting some cash until this unbelievable TV deal starts paying all these salaries anyway.
don
December 21st, 2012
4:15 pm
In essence, the Braves ended up with Billy Bullock for Scott Diamond. Diamond, age 26, won 12 games for the Twins last season. Bullock just got suspended 50 games for his second drug offense.
Boy, the Braves know how to pick them.