2:34 pm December 13, 2012, by Carroll Rogers
December 15th, 20125:48 pm
Angel Eyes…. I’m not saying we should be shooting for 94 wins and there is no guarantee that would put us in 3rd place either. We should be shooting to put the best team on the field to give us the best chance to win the most games and be set up well for a post season. I think the Phillies way overpaid for Revere and so do most analysts. They will regret not having Worley as the summer wears on. It’s not likely that all three of Halladay, Hamels and Lee will go the entire season without a DL Stint or two. Their team is getting older and they lose Ruiz for 25 games to start the year. The Phillies haven’t replaced Victorino and Pence and Utley and Howard are a year older and slower. Utley has had a history of injuries and Polanco is a free agent. They aren’t the same team they were 2 years ago so I don’t see how they win more than 94 games. Who else in the division will win more than 94 games besides the Nats to put the Braves in 3rd place if they were to win the same # of games as last year?
December 15th, 20126:01 pm
@dylan; Like you; I also think Minor is too valuable, seemed like he was in rythem w/ his pitches, changing speeds real well, keeping hitters off balanced, sorta in a medlen kinda’ way. Bein’ very crafty. Before Beachy got hurt, he was the same way. Opportunities show the maturation level of a young pitcher. Medlen, Minor, & Beachy are main cogs of our rotation. Would hope Delgado would develope into cog#4, we’ll see. Be a decent trade piece, him or Teheran.
December 15th, 20126:25 pm
Add R. A. Dickey to that staff and they are (Blue Jays) are good!
December 15th, 20126:28 pm
i am in agreement that minor for fowler wasn’t a square deal. the only one who would have made that deal is ol’ angel eyes. haha, no offense intended. we all would have made the deal before this season, especially when he pitched a fit that he might have to go back to gwinnett.
on the subject of the vsu blazers, they definitely need their own home. valdosta high hasn’t had a good team since i was in high school there-graduated in 94. the insanity over high school foosball down there is why i love baseball so much!! go bravos.
December 15th, 20126:29 pm
BravesFaninNashville. Maybe Braves win 94 games maybe not. My personal opinion-not. No Chipper no Bourn. No Ross, No Mccann until July No Beachy.. I really don’t think we got anyone to replace them. Upton is OK but no Born. Prado a star but can only play one position at a time. When Phillies got well last year, they really finished strong. They got better. 95 wins-2nd Nationals- very very much better 100 wins or more-1st. Braves no improvement. Got worse 90 wins at most 3rd place. IMO need to get this team some help. They are young. They are good. Need leadership. Upton is not the answer. Need a leadoff man. A good LF. Whatever it costs. Do that Braves win division and might win it all. If you have to trade pitcher, do it. Have plenty of young arms to replace them. Try it . they might like it.
December 15th, 20126:35 pm
Did anybody see Georgia Southern choke away that game last night? That was completely on coaching!
December 15th, 20126:42 pm
Dylan, you say that about BJ Upton but you would like Atlanta to trade for Peter Bourjeous? Look at Bourjeous’ stats.
December 15th, 20126:43 pm
LA Angels sound like they are looking for proven starting pitching and not prospects. With all of the offense they have, I don’t think it really matters.
December 15th, 20126:44 pm
According to MLBTraderumors, Atlanta is targeting Dexter Fowler. The post went on to say that there had been no discussions with Colorado this weekend. Wasn’t it said that Atlanta is targeting Mark Trumbo? They sure have a lot of targets for Frank Wren to be sitting with his hands folded. No?
December 15th, 20126:56 pm
@WigWamWisps He must have his hands folded. He hasn’t popped a deal like everyone else. If his hands are not folded he must be playing with his “pretty hair”. Cause he sure hasn’t popped anything like everyone else is. WHAT IS HE DOING?
Whats everybody’s take on kimbrel pitching for the US in the World class tournament. Dang, if he comes in sore armed, shoulder, etc… or any problems in this season, ya’ll remember he’s taxing out his elbow try’n to blow 98′ to 100′ mph by hitters in a tournament that doesn’t have anything at stake compared to the Braves season. I think he’s risking injury when he needs to prep up exercising, on schedule in spring training, w/ everybody else, so he can remain strong for the next 6 months after. Hope it won’t be regrettable, his competitiveness may overtake his preparation. We’re sunk if he goes down, & that high comodity will digress.
December 15th, 20127:01 pm
They invited Bryce Harper to come play for the US, & the Nats & he declined the invitation, wanting to only prep up for the upcoming season. I think the Braves Brass might need to reconsider for Kimbrel, talk to ‘em to tell ‘em their paying his salary, & he’s a franchise player, he’s their property, that he should only prep up only for the upcoming season, save the arm brother, not worth it.
December 15th, 20127:24 pm
@wigwam, sorry, but I never said I wanted bourjous. I’ve been crying Cory hart this whole time…
December 15th, 20127:37 pm
Pena has proven he can successfully record an out from the left or right side of the plate. Most of the team can only record an out from one side of the plate. Isn’t that 50% better?!?! ;>)
December 15th, 20127:42 pm
the difference in kimbrel is that he has pride for his country. He wants to play for the United States team. Sounds like the way Americans used to feel. Now they only care about their pockets
December 15th, 20128:47 pm
Yes, we have seen this before. The Braves current and former GMs are notorious for filling needs from within even if it means not filling them very well.
That worked well in the ‘90s but then it’s hard to ignore that the team had little offensive pop and was supported by the greatest starting three of our generation.
December 15th, 20128:53 pm
Exactly. Second half medlen minor reminded me of maddux glavine.
El Oso Blanco
December 15th, 20129:10 pm
Here is an idea, how about we trade with the White Sox for a guy like Alejandro De Aza?? plays all 3 positions of the outfield, hits for average, great OBP and has speed. And best of all it wouldn’t take a lot to get him. We can probably get him just by giving up a decent prospect at the most, someone like Pastornicky since we have Janish and Pena. That could be a good option and he’s cheap making 495K and is under contorl until 2016 if I’m not mistaken.
December 15th, 20129:13 pm
@El Oso Blanco Great idea, But you have to wake-up Wren first. Good luck
December 15th, 20129:42 pm
I am pretty sure the Braves have a stockpile of infielders who cannot hit.
December 15th, 20129:43 pm
Wren, make the move for Peter Bourjos. This guy is about as legit a leadoff hitter you are going to find in this market. Not to mention his potential is through the roof. Might even be a little better than Bourn. Seriously. Maybe a little less speed, obviously. Not many guys are as fast as Michael Bourn. But this dude is a burner and plays GREAT D.
Teheran⇔Bourjos straight up. G.
December 15th, 201210:04 pm
The Braves are better in the most important part of the game pitching and defense. They will start the season with Hudson, Medlen, Minor, Maholm and either Delgado or Teheran. This is a more consistent rotation then the one that included Hanson and JJ last year. Even though we lose Beachy for the first half and then he won’t be at full strength until 2014 we have Medlen all year as a starter and Hudson from Day 1 too, he was out early in the year last year.
Maybe Beachy can come back and give us what Meds did first half last year (2 or 3 innings of relief when we need him until his arm strength is back). We didn’t use Medlen as a starter because they wanted to keep his total innings under 160 for the year but Beachy won’t have to worry about that if he comes back in July or August.
We are also going to be stronger defensively because we’ll have Simmons all year.. Last year Pastornicky cost us a lot of runs with his glove and arm. Upton should be nearly a wash with Bourn because though he won’t get to quite as many balls as Bourn he’ll keep a lot of runners from going first to third because his arm is much better than Bourn’s. He’ll also prevent some tag fly’s on balls hit to shallow to medium center that teams ran on last year.
There is a cost for finding an outfielder that moves Prado to 3B. That cost is not finding out how good Francisco can be. I’m really curious to see what he’d do with 450 plus AB’s. I’m personally willing to bet he’d equal the offensive output of any outfielder on the market that we could sign or trade for not named Upton. The ship has sailed on Wil Myers so we’ll see now if it was a good idea to trade a front line pitcher for him or not. Tampa needed the offense even more than us because we just got Upton.
December 15th, 201210:13 pm
in other words if the Braves get an outfielder to hit lead off he needs to be a really high OPB guy because he will probably have little pop and therefor not a strong RBI man. (Remember the leadoff hitter comes up often later in the game with runners on base) so we are taking those at bats away from Francisco who would be respected for his power. I think unless Wren can get a leadoff hitter that has an OBP of .350 or better he’s better off to let Prado or Simmons lead off and keep Francisco’s bat in the line-up. If we had to go into a postseason series with this team as is I’d feel confident that we could play with anyone.
December 15th, 201210:21 pm
Angel Eyes, how muchhave you helped your team this off-season? Did you get it done by knowing more about what’s available throughout the league? Could you enlighten all of us on what Wren should have done? Pizzy little sniveler…
December 15th, 201210:37 pm
Lobo it doesn’t take a genius to find better moves for the braves. Fist, don’t spend 75 million on a clubhouse cancer who has a worse obp than uggla. For that amount they should’ve just resigned bourn. Should’ve waited until Hamilton and greinke signed before doing the angels deal, if he’d waited he could’ve used Hanson and prospects together in a package for trumbo, who without uptons K’s in our lineup, would be a great fit.
December 15th, 201210:57 pm
December 15th, 201211:00 pm
did you hear what wren had to give up to get trumbo
prado,francisco and delgado
personally i think thery mugged him analy assaulted =im and bludgeoned him too
December 15th, 201211:03 pm
hey were gonnsa do it for mejia alone but wren wanted to play hardball with them
December 15th, 201211:09 pm
lets say theres a national carry law where all adults over the age of 17 and medically sane are given 6 months of gun training and a gun, we aint talking about no tragedy then
not to mention all the money that could be saved when 90 % of useless protectors and servers are severed
December 15th, 201211:11 pm
switzeland does that , guess which country has the least crime? rimg ring ring , yep switzerland it is
December 15th, 201211:14 pm
i mean come on lets us those noggins for something else other than hatracks.whose gonna try and rob someone knowing everyone on the scenne is carrying? sure there will still be crimes of passion, but even if you take away the guns you dont think there will be a need for more window instALLERS LIKE CHUCK MORTON
December 15th, 201211:17 pm
PERSONALLY I DONT OWN A GUN AND WOULD BE THE LAWBREAKER IN THE SCENARIO I DESCRIBE, CAUSE I WOULDNT CAFRRY, but doesnt mean i dont think you have the right to
December 15th, 201211:18 pm
One word can sum up this off-season for me, that word being BORING.. I am about as disinterested in this team than I have ever been. After losing the Braves Icon Chipper Jones to retirement, the best leadoff hitter since Furcal, and the best CF this team has seen since Andruw Jones in Michael Bourn, the fan favorite and one hell of a catcher in Rossy, and only getting a CF who is not as good as Bourn, a backup to the backup SS in Rivera, and the trade of Hanson, no way this team will win 90+ games next year. I really thought with having all that money to spend that the Braves would bend over backwards to get at least 2 guys in here to make fans want to come to the stadium. Fans only came out last season because it was their last chance to watch Chipper play. I will bet anything attendance is way down next year. Who wants to watch a high priced free agent strikeout all the time? Not this guy. Unless Wren pulls a horseshoe out of his ass, this off-season is going to go down as a huge disappointment.
December 15th, 201211:20 pm
well nite all there bound to be someone readiing this diatribe, but theres the answer or at least one of them. give me 3 days and i could solve the worlds problems, and i aint skeeered of the central bankers either, just because you been getting away with fraud for 99 years still doesnt mean it isnt fraud
December 15th, 201211:42 pm
Will everyone stop comparing us to the Angels and Dodgers? We aren’t them, don’t have the TV deal to spend 20+ million on every free agent. Wren will make a deal to make us better before the Spring (two months from now) starts. If we trade for Trumbo everyone will cry about the K’s and overlook the 30+ HR’s and 100+ RBI’s. You fair weather fans drive us real fans crazy! It’s the middle of December, take a friggen chill pill
December 16th, 201212:29 am
Jbailz, a “real braves fan” would be someone that follows the braves all year round, following baseball as a whole and comparing our product to everyone else’s to see where we stand and what pieces fit best with our team. I am most definatly a “real” fan and don’t agree with the moves we have made
And yes, id be upset with trumbos K’s when added to a lineup where 4 others will surpass 130 K’s.
December 16th, 20121:34 am
again even IF we get Trumbo which is a BIG IF because the Angels have stated they don’t want to trade him there is no guarantee he’d hit 30HRs and drive in 100Runs. Then if the Braves did trade for him we’d certainly have to give up at least one of Delgado/Teheran or Minor or Medlen. We could get similar production out of Francisco so why give up a good pitcher for Trumbo? The cost just doesn’t make sense. The ONLY trade that makes sense is if we get a true leadoff hitter with a high OBP but then why not just re-sign Bourn? The reason is he’d cost too much so we can’t afford him. I believe Wren made the right move with Upton because at the time it was believed that Bourn would cost over $100Million and he’s not worth anywhere near that. I like this team and would rather have Francisco and ALL of our pitchers in tact with money to spend at the trade deadline than Trumbo and be down a good pitcher and no flex at the deadline..
December 16th, 20126:42 am
some people collect stamps, coins and baseball cards.
Frank Wren collects .220 hitters
Sambo 4 Rambo
December 16th, 20128:17 am
I would say that most teams/fans in MLB envy what we have here in Atl. We all want the present day “big” names but we already have them in the making. When you look at Heyward, Prado, Freeman, Simmons, Mac, Medlen, Kimbrel. Holy smokes! Most teams dont have 5 or 6 names to mention as possible 2013 All-star canidates. Sure is nice to only worry about LF, when 98% of all the other teams are worrying about multiple positions right now. Lets be jacked at where we are!
December 16th, 20128:21 am
How can we be jacked when other teams in the division are getting better, and the Braves lineup is reduced except for the ability to strikeout.
Do you think we could get Trumbo or Gordon for Delgado and Minor?I think I would trade these two before I would give up Medlen and Teheran.If Wren insists on a true lead off hitter I suppose Fowler’s name will continue to be mentioned. Just waiting for Wren to make a move.
December 16th, 20128:26 am
We will grow old waiting for Frank Wren to make a move.
Brave New World
December 16th, 20128:31 am
All the ridiculous cheap shots at Wren and The Braves would be more meaningful if The Braves had not won 94 games and made the playoffs in 2012. Saying stupid things does not make a point stronger, it just makes the person who said it look less intelligent. GO BRAVES!
December 16th, 20128:33 am
December 16th, 20128:41 am
The division is getting better? I would like to see your facts on that, steve. Now the Nats are getting better no doubt. But the Phils are getting old, the once feared pitching staff they had is no longer feared and there postion players are on the back end of there careers. Mets have David Wright and are shopping Dickey (they were a two player team last year). Marlins are selling out. The Braves are loaded with young talent and big bats with defensive skills. I mean we are spoiled in having multiple guys that can drop 30+ bombs a year but that comes with a cost at having lots of strikeouts. Thats just the numbers on all big bats around the league. Also, NO WAY you give up Delgado and Minor for a position player when your somewhat limited in starting pitching due to age and inexperience. Minor was our best pitcher down the stretch besides Medlen, while Delgado will be a productive #5 pitcher for us in 2013. Maybe a Teheran and Venters package but not two starters.
December 16th, 20128:46 am
The Nats and Phillies both addressed needs. The Braves have a hole in left or third, depending on where Prado plays.
December 16th, 20128:50 am
I didn’t mention the strike out machines at second and the new centerfielder, who hit under .250 last year.
December 16th, 20129:04 am
While Nats and Braves battle for first, The Phils, Mets and Marlins will be battling for the cellar. Phils have stockpiled older players with huge salaries (see what $25 million got them from “Fiscal Cliff” Lee). Michael Young is a great clubhouse presence but his best years are long gone. Ryan “Fats” Howard is an injury away from retirement, and (sadly) Roy Halladay is a once-great batting practice pitcher now that his fastball maxes out at about 88 MPH. Mets were overachievers in the early part of 2012. Marlins are a gutted team.
December 16th, 20129:06 am
Good luck to all you Brave fans who are happy with your 500 ball club. Losers again.
December 16th, 20129:12 am
Like I stated, Bombs come with Strikeouts. Cant just look at average dude. Baseball is far more than just average. Yeah Uggla strikesout and hits .230…….the man has 55 HR’s and 160 RBI’s in two years not to mention his 94 BB last year and we were all concerned about his defense coming to Atl and thats been somewhat of a good suprise. Lets not judge Upton til we see him play for us first hand. What he did for the Rays was for the Rays, lets judge him in a Bravo uni first. Just sayin we arent in that bad of a situation like a lot of you make us sound like
December 16th, 20129:14 am
Fans have been told the limited budget is the problem with acquiring quality players. This year, millions have been freed up due to contracts rolling off the books. What will be the new excuse?
December 16th, 20129:24 am
We have not gotten our 14 million dollars worth at second base, and most analysts say we overpaid for our new centerfielder. I hope I have to eat my words. I have been a Braves fan for over 35 years and watch almost every game. I want them to do well. I just think they make curious personnel moves.
Joe Dirte (AKA J-Man)
December 16th, 201210:07 am
I personally think Constanza could be a good lead-off hitter if given the opportunity, and I think Francisco could hit 30 HRs if given the opportunity, and I like Gattis. Why rade a prospect for a player that isnt gonna be that much better than these guys and I doubt Dexter Fowler will do better playing in Atlanta than he did hitting in Denver, and he only had 12 HRs and didnt steal bases all that much. Trumbo has upside but the Angles want a Proven starter and unless we give them Hudson or Medlen they aint gonna part with him. I think we should roll with the Gattis, Francisco, Constanza trio and if Uggla sucks again we can move Prado to 2nd base and allow another member of the trio to play. But lets save the money and use it to extend Prdo, Medlen, and Hudson.
December 16th, 201210:09 am
Personally I turn to and blame the coaching. Many times I have scratched my head on certain calls made and player development..
December 16th, 201210:15 am
But you cant listen to “analyst”. All they do is love on the Greinke’s and Pujols of MLB. When was the last time an “analyst” praised a team for bringing up a player through there organization and keeping him through his trials and tribulations til he succeeded??
Nova Scotia Steve
Pretty hard to say we overpaid for our CF. Have you seen the contracts this winter? We thought we had a shot at Victorino – until he signed for $39 M over three years.
Not to mention Anibel Sanchez getting $80 million over five years (he is almost getting paid per season what the eniire Braves rotation combined will make).
The money being thrown around this offseason is just nuts. I think the Braves walked away of the Upton deal looking really good.
The reason – Braves were aggressive and got their man before prices went way up, they kicked off the winter FA period basically with the Upton sign.
However, we’re going to end up with filling LF or 3B from within or a discount player and that is disappointing. It really is.
December 16th, 201210:18 am
Steve would you have rather had Victorino for $13 Million per year for 3 years? That’s what the Red Sox paid him. Remember the Phillies let him go and could have bid on him but chose not to the Phillies did however bid on Upton. There just aren’t deals out there on power hitting outfielders. Willingham’s contract is attractive but the trade price to acquire that contract is really high and now that the Twins have traded Span and Revere they won’t trade Willingham.
What’s interesting is if Wren had not bid on Upton and someone else signed him especially the Phillies or the Nats this blog would be all over Wren for not spending the money he had to spend and on and on. Now that he’s acquired a 28 year old coming into his prime that plays plus defense with a plus, plus arm that has a legit chance to be a 30/30 player most of you are saying he way overpaid for him and will be a clubhouse cancer when every teammate of his I heard interviewed since he signed with the Braves have said he’ll be missed in Tampa and he’s a great teammate. They all said he has so much natural talent and that his long strides can make it look like he’s not putting out max effort when he’s running down a ball but he is and he gets to many baseballs that most outfielders have no chance to catch. People just be happy we have such a bright future and that Wren has managed to keep our coveted pitchers together.
Young high quality pitching like Beachy, Medlen, Minor, Delgado and Teheran that are under team control for several years are of HUGE value. Don’t believe it just look at what Grienke and Sanchez signed for. They make Upton look like a deal. Wren is doing this the right way. This team will be really good next year. Kudos to Frank for not giving in to the D’Backs and trading Simmons for Upton. We are a much better team with Simmons and our pitchers than we would be without Simmons and one or more of our good young pitchers and Justin.
December 16th, 201211:32 am
While the Phillies add Mike Adams and John Lannan, Wren gets this nobody.
Don’t the Braves already have enough back-up infielders who can’t hit in Paul Janish and Tyler Pastornicky?
December 16th, 201211:36 am
Bravesfan that’s a flat out lie. Maybe you missed where he stopped giving any sort of effort on the field and longoria got in his face and bj started trying to pull his best zambrano right in the dugout? Not a single person down there will miss bj. Not for his glove, his sub .250 avg, or his 160k’s.
Some people need to stop falling in love with the home run. 30 home runs doesn’t make a .240 avg OK. It means more than 7 times out of 10 you are a liability at the plate
Posts about The Braves From Other Great Blogs issue #1 | Atlanta Braves Dugout Online | Atlanta Braves Blog
December 16th, 201211:54 am
[...] his future — privately confided in Alex that I thought he needed a change of more… Braves sign utility infielder Pena – blogs.ajc.com 12/13/2012 The Braves added another bench piece Thursday, signing utility [...]
December 16th, 201211:56 am
Joe 12-Pack. Wren added Walden to the bullpen and traded Hanson’s contract at the same time. Picked up a power arm to pitch the 6th or 7th inning and got rid of $4 Million worth of liability in Hanson who is in serious decline and can’t hold runners. This also allows us to promote one of Delgado or Teheran because it’s almost certain they can will 12 games for us to replace Hanson’s production for league minimum. He also added a really good CF in Upton who will impact games with his bat and glove and speed.
Personally I’d rather have Upton over Bourn even if they are paid the same money. The overwhelming word from the baseball professionals is that Bourn would get the biggest contract of all the position players out there. Upton can end a game with one swing and he can steal a base when we need it most. Bourn didn’t seem to run when the game was on the line very often. Also Bourn’s second half 2 years in a row is not a good sign. It was hard to tell the difference between Bourn and Constanza in September last year and he didn’t look like a $100 Million player to me at all.
I believe Wren really tried to engage in trades with KC for Myers or Gordon but the Royals liked the package they got from Tampa because they wanted Shields. That’s just the way it goes sometimes because Wren didn’t want to trade Minor and I respect that. Time will tell if Tampa got a future star in Myers or not. They probably did and the trade will probably look really good for the Rays in 2 or 3 years but KC chose them over us. I don’t think that’s Wrens fault. Just like Upton chose us over other cities, you win some you lose some.
December 16th, 201212:06 pm
The only player who would have netted Myers was Beachy (in part of a package) but he is on the DL and not for sale.
Medlen is the hot hand but he lacks the starting pitcher resume of Shields. If Medlen continues to dominate over a full season or two then he will be a prized trade piece.
What teams want (for guys like Myers) are 200+ IP ToR arms. Medlen seems to have the first part down but he doesn’t have the latter just yet.
December 16th, 201212:08 pm
dylan….. before you call people liars maybe you should ask what interviews they’ve heard? One was with Wade Davis the day after BJ signed and he was interviewed on MLB channel XM radio. He gave a glowing review of BJ. Didn’t have one bad word to say about him and said the felt like the last half of the year something clicked in BJ and in Wade’s words “he figured it out” his strikeouts started coming down as he started laying off more pitches and he was driving the ball with authority because he was being more selective and thus swinging at better pitches.
Didn’t we watch the same transformation in Heyward? Once he started to lay off more pitches and exercised better strike zone recognition he started to drive the ball and his OBP went up too. I think Jason and Freeman will be good for BJ to be around. The other interview I heard was with James Shields. He said he loved having BJ playing behind him because he saved him a lot of runs with his defense. Ironically both Davis and Shields are now Royals but those interviews were soon after the BJ signing while they were still with Tampa…
Dylan lighten up… it’s only baseball..
December 16th, 201212:17 pm
thats 2 players out of 25. if bj had clicked and started playing his game the way he always should have been, why wouldn’t the rays at least attempt to resign him? and unless he cuts down his k’s by some crazy amount, hes still an almost guarantee for at least 140. yeah his obp went up, because thats the only way it could go. his obp was under .300! that is flat out horrible.
December 16th, 201212:28 pm
dylan….. c’mon are you saying the other 23 players didn’t like BJ. just because they weren’t interviewed? Also where have you been dude? The Rays model is to keep payroll really low and develop young players who are cheap but talented so signing BJ doesn’t fit their model at all. I know your going to say what about Longoria but he gave them serious discounts because he wants to be a lifetime Ray. His first extension was similar to McCann’s for the Braves. He could have been paid a lot more if he went out onto the open market like Crawford did.
Why do you think the Rays traded Shields and Davis for Myers and others? Because the Rays won’t be able to pay Shields or Davis when they become free agents and they have control of Myers for 6 years. That’s the Rays way of doing business. They didn’t sign Crawfrod and they didn’t sign Upton just like they wouldn’t sign Shields and won’t sign Price when it’s time.
Poor argument. Next….
December 16th, 201212:32 pm
If Longoria would have chosen to test Free Agency he would have been paid at least David Wright money if not more because he’s younger and better.
December 16th, 201212:48 pm
i didnt say all 23 of the rest didnt like him, but i guarantee more didn’t like him than did. you know longoria for 1. and yes, i know the rays model, its almost identical to the a’s, but that doesnt change the fact that, regardless of longoria giving a chipper discount, he still got a huge contract, as will david price. the fact is, longoria got that contract because he is a game changer. if bj were as good as you purport him to be, they would’ve at least thrown an offer out there. the facts are he has a lot of potential, but has never produced the way he should. he has a horrible attitude, strikes out a lot, doesn’t hit 30+ hrs, or hit for any sort of average, and he doesn’t walk.
it’s not like hes new to the league, he’s been around for 8 seasons man. hes just a headcase. you can keep arguing all you want about how great he his, but the facts are hes just never going to live up to his massive potential. in football terms hes a bust
December 16th, 20121:00 pm
dylan – you’re right, mostly. Real Braves fan follow the team all year and compare them to other teams. But they don’t want to hang Frank Wren by his toenails when we don’t sign Josh Hamilton, Zack Greinke, Michael Bourne, and every other big name free agent out there. It happens every off season, Wren and Co have forgotten more about baseball then we’ll ever know and they’re working within a budget.
December 16th, 20121:02 pm
Dylan…. I’m not claiming that BJ is great. Bourn wasn’t great but is going to get “great money”. It’s just how the game is now and that’s a little disappointing as a fan. I think BJ was a better choice than Victorino or Bourn or Swisher or Pagan but I don’t consider any of them to be great either. We need a solid defender in CF and he has a speed and power component to his game that should be of value too.
By the way Price will not sign with the Rays. I agree he’ll get a big contract but it won’t be in Tampa. The Rays simply cannot have almost 1/2 their payroll committed to 2 players with what Longoria will be due and Price will certainly eclipse the Grienke contract it’s not a fit in Tampa.
There are too many teams willing to pay him huge money like Texas, both LA teams the Nats, Cubs, Red Sox and others. How are you privy to be able to guarantee what the other 23 Rays would say. Longoria had a beef with him for sure but are you certain they didn’t’ mend the fence? Maybe that woke BJ up a little and actually helped him. I remember Chipper calling out Heyward a couple of times last year and who knows that might have actually helped Jason in the end.
December 16th, 20121:03 pm
“Don’t the Braves already have enough back-up infielders who can’t hit in Paul Janish and Tyler Pastornicky?”
Thats what Wren does, he stacks up position players or career back-up players and washed up number 5 pitchers instead of addressing a starting 1 through 9 lineup. Getting that in order should be the FIRST priority for most GM’s!
December 16th, 20121:13 pm
i know theyre working on a budget, and thats fine, but you have to make smart choices when youre budgeting. upping the phils offer an extra 20 mill to get bj upton was just not smart, when patience wouldve rewarded you with better options and cheaper to acquire options. getting hamilton here was nothing more than wishful thinking, as he really didnt fit this club to begin with.
greinke was very gettable until they dropped 75 mill on bj upton. as ive been saying for a while now, they shouldve resigned bourn with the money they dropped on bj, although on a 2 year deal (probably a 2 year, 25 mill) and then go after cory hart from the brew crew, who we could realistically get for a top tier pitching prospect (delgado before teheran). or if they didnt resign bourn they could up that package to be hart and carlos gomez and add in maholm, delgado, and another top prospect, maybe mejia or joey t.
then with the extra money we have left over, turn around and grab shaun marcum with a 2 year deal, maybe worth 15 mill with a player option for a third year
December 16th, 20121:18 pm
@ braves fan,
again, i didnt say the entire rest of the team didn’t like him, just that i”m sure more didn’t than did. do you know what the beef with longoria was about? bj loafed on a ball to the while and a double turned into a triple. this was like the 4th time within 2 years he”d been yelled at for not hustling, being benched 3 times. longoria stepped up and told him to hustle, like a team leader should, and bj got pissy and started screaming in his face. you honestly think more people took his side than evans? and ill bet the rays make an exception for price, because they simply can’t afford to let him go with how good the rest of the east is now
December 16th, 20121:39 pm
Not sure what you’re trying to achieve here on a blog reserved for Atlanta Braves discussions.
I will add just this and move back to the theme of this blog.
I am a life member of the NRA and the NRA would never support any law requiring the ownership or possession of firearms. The NRA simply wants to preservation of liberty to choose!
In short, the policy of the NRA is to preserve liberty for all citizens except those who choose to abuse their liberties through violation of law. For those few, society should reserve strict and harsh prosecutions. Some call that a “law and order” mentaliy. I choose to call it preservation of liberty for all citizens who cherish such liberty with morality and responsibility, and removing from ability to harm society those few who are deemed by competent authority to be a threat to society.
@dylan You might as well give up. They are in love with a bunch of losers and there is no way to change theie minds. Maybe they will be happy with their 500 ball club. I’m not but let it go. They like losers
December 16th, 20121:57 pm
im not trying to be a dick here, just trying to show that just because they are a gm doesn’t mean they know whats best or make the best moves. there are still plenty of options left to turn this offseason into a decent one, but wren needs to make smart moves the rest of the way in order for the braves to have a better product than last year. you can’t replace chipper jones, and i do think fransisco can be a decent replacement if he follows what the coaches ask, but it doesn’t matter who they get for 3rd, he will always live in the shadow of chipper for those who had the good fortune of watching chippers entire career.
instead of people looking to find a replacement for chipper, the braves instead need to look to solidifying the outfield and covering those holes. if we finally solidify our outfield and turn our outfield into one of the most solid out there, the hole at 3rd base won’t seem quite so big. thats why i keep saying get cory hart. he fills a lot of the holes the braves have left. while not great at anything, hes good at everything, and a perfect complement to heyward and freeman. hes a RH bat with good power, while still being able to hit somewhere around .285 and hit you 25-30 (on the high side) hrs, drive in 75-85 rbi, and play solid defense while being able to hit anywhere from the 2 hole to the 7 hole. yes he’ll be a free agent next offseason, but he’s not represented by boras if i remember correctly, and seems like the type of player who will resign with this team. he’s 30 years old, but has shown no signs of decline, and is actually a very good leadoff hitter; a lot faster than you’d think coming from a 6′6 guy (had the fastest 60 yard dash of any brewer, including rickie weeks), and is almost as versatile as martin prado
December 16th, 20122:09 pm
Dylan…. I’m just glad your not our GM. Obviously several other GM’s disagree with you or they would have snapped up Bourn by now.. He wasn’t going to sign for a year or two so that’s out. The number the Phillies offered Upton wasn’t public until after he signed. So you’re playing Monday morning quarterback and that’s not how life works. Your ideas just don’t add up.
Why did the Red Sox give Victorino $39 Million over 3 years? Giants Pagan $40 Million? Is it because the could get Bourn for 2 years but passed? This is just plain crazy talk.
Besides just to be clear you really think the Braves could have signed Bourn for $25million over 2 years? If you’re so tuned in to what goes on why don’t you tell us what the Braves offered Bourn at the end of the season! I’d be willing to bet it was for more than $25 million/ 2 Yrs. by the way he turned that down.
December 16th, 20122:16 pm
Hahaha! Sounds like dylan has talked to Longoria on the reg, along with the rest of the team. What a reliable source you are. You definitely missed your calling as a GM! Absolutely a baseball wizard! I had no idea that soley 30+ homeruns doesnt make a .240 hitter. Wow you missed your calling!
December 16th, 20122:17 pm
I agree with you dylan. Very well said. Just remember you have to give up something to get something. As long as you have a GM who is in love with pitching, you are not going to make any deals. Yes you have to be careful. Wren has enough pitching, even in minors. He will not trade a ML pitcher to get a ML player. For example: He would not trade Minor to get fFowler, Why not? Teheran , Gilmartin and others can replace him. Wren is in love with his pitching and going to stockpile it. So no deal will be made. We are just going to have to live with a 500 ball club and no playoffs until we get rid of pitcher loving Wren.
December 16th, 20122:23 pm
Chipper played in 112 games hit 14 hrs and had 62 RBI. In less than 1/2 Chippers at bats Francisco had 9 Hrs and 32 RBI. Chippers production the last 2 years is not hard to replace. His leadership will be replaced by players who are producing like Heyward and Freeman. Last year was Chippers final season so out of respect for that players like Heyward , Freeman and McCann didn’t step forward. Now that Chippers gone others can and will step up.
December 16th, 20122:28 pm
Dylan ……. Besides the player you are so overly concerned about replacing is the same one who threw the double play ball into right field when the season was on the line. No doubt Chipper is a HOF player and one of my favorite Braves but he’s human and replaceable like it or not that’s life and we’re all replaceable..
December 16th, 20122:32 pm
bravesfan, MY ideas suck? youre touting bj upton at 5 years 75 million as a great signing! trying to tell everyone hes a great player just entering his prime! are you serious? get out of here with that. anyone who watches baseball knows bj upton is as overrated as they come. and as of right now, YES bourn could be enticed to sign a 1 or 2 year deal because, guess what? THE MARKET ISN’T PAYING WHAT HE THOUGHT. now thanks to wren blowing his load too quick, there isn’t enough money to even explore that possibility.
please explain how my ideas suck or “don’t add up”, because if you knew anything at all about the game, you’d see that they do. upton is NOT the RH “power bat” that our of needed. in fact, the only stat he has better than cory hart is steals, which won’t matter in the slightest because the braves are not a high volume running team. and why is that? wait for it…..BECAUSE THEY STRIKEOUT SO MUCH. so you tell me how adding another 160 strikeouts next to the 160 of uggla, 150 of heyward and freeman, and the probable 150 of fransisco, along with uptons career .255 avg and career .336 obp to go along with ugglas sub .240 avg does this team any good? oh and he isn’t even a power bat, seeing as he hasn’t hit a single homerun against the top 1/3 pitchers in the al. oh, and upton doesn’t bat leadoff, and is quite possibly the worst brave for the 2 hole spot, which leaves him where?
compare that to hart with his career .277 avg, and the fact that hart plays more positions, and can legitimately bat leadoff, and is a legit 2-7 hole hitter, while being cheaper and much better in the clubhouse and PLEASE explain how my idea doesn’t add up?
what does bj offer that the braves currently don’t have? the zambrano effect?
December 16th, 20122:37 pm
and bravesfan you are a moron if you think chipper is so easily replaced. it isn’t his numbers you have to replace, its the clubhouse leadership, and the experience. lol how did the braves do replacing andruw? how many CF have we had since A.J?
and sambo, youre just dumb for thinking that 30 hrs is worth suffering a 240 avg and sub 300 obp, but have fun watching him hit a few bombs while watching him strikeout in clutch situations, you obviously don’t watch anything other than the braves, if you watch the braves at all.
Angel Eyes … Wren will make a trade when it benefits the Braves. I would NEVER agree with trading Minor for Fowler. Big mistake! We have lots of pitching and as we’ve seen with Hudson, Medlen , Beachy , JJ and Hanson who’ve all been on the DL (3 of them for a year with TJ surgery) you need depth at pitching .. That’s an Atlanta Braves recipe and it works. How many times have we heard the best of the best say when you think you have enough pitching get some more?
Next summer Wren will look like a genius when has has a pitcher to trade or to call up in case of an injury. He won 94 games as a GM last year how about you?
December 16th, 20122:48 pm
don’t even bring up mccann in the same sentence with chipper’s leadership. mac’s had the opportunity for 3 years to step up and take the reins, and he hasn’t been able to do it. you think it’s that easy to replace the braves record holder in almost every category? based on 1 error? and you forgot to mention that in 1/2 the at bats, fransisco k’d 20 more times.
Dylan .. I never said Cory Hart was a bad idea. I like him! I said Bourn would not have signed for $25 Million for 2 yrs. because I said your idea about that doesn’t add up to me doesn’t mean I think your ideas suck. You’re putting words out there I didn’t say.
Look none of us has a crystal ball and we can’t predict what will happen for sure. Lots of people thought the Giants, Phillies and Nats were going to make a big push for Bourn. They all choose other options which means they didn’t value him as much as Boras thought . His best option might turn out to be the offer he passed on from the Braves? Who knows maybe the Cubs , Rangers or Mariners will get in on him and he’ll get his money after all. Last year everyone was stunned by Prince Fielders deal with the Tigers.
Dude it’s just baseball we can talk and even disagree without being nasty!
December 16th, 20122:49 pm
i actually agree with you about minor for fowler, thats a horrible trade for the braves. id love to get fowler for a couple prospects, but minor and medlen should be untouchable as far as our pitchers go
December 16th, 20122:50 pm
As long as he hold on to the pitching, The Braves will not make the deals they need B.J. (strikeout upton was not the answer. Francisco is not the answer. Pena is not the answer. Laird not the answer. No leadership’ Mccann, Heyward, Freeman are NOT leaders. Yea they won 94 games. Where did that get them. No where. They relied on the pitcher to throw a shutout. You saw what happened. This team has been weakened. No Chipper, No Bourn No Ross, They are done unless get some help. Piching is not the answer. 81 wins at most and no playoffs unless you get some HELP.
December 16th, 20122:52 pm
Hey corey hart jerk off, i mean dylan, only you and some chick from whales, a.k.a. angel eyes, agree with your ignorant ass. Your a waste of everyones time. Go blog on the mets site, theyll accept you!
December 16th, 20122:54 pm
you got nasty first man, but ok. all i pointed out at first is that tampa obviously wasn’t sorry to see the back of him, based on the fact that they didn’t even speak to him about an extension before the season was over. even if teams know the player is going to test the waters, they will usually talk extension first, if just to show the fanbase that they tried. i don’t blame teams for not paying 100 mill for bourn, that was an outlandish number to begin with, and i believe teams are just tired of dealing with boras. but i would much rather given bourn the contract we gave upton because hes a much better fit for this particular team than bj upton.
honestly i would’ve preferred to let bourn walk, not sign bj, and try work a trade with mil for hart and gomez. would’ve filled all three spots the braves needed most, and would most likely have been cheaper.
December 16th, 20122:58 pm
sambo, more people agree with me than have agreed with you, sorry that you don;t understand the game and just assume that anything a gm does is the right move, simply because hes a gm.
allow me to show you how that was wrong…. jason bay? braves with tex? uggla? vernon wells with laa? the entire marlins squad this past season?
gm’s screw up all the time
December 16th, 20123:00 pm
Never said Chipper was going to be easy to replace. I said his production the last two years could be replaced. There’s a big difference! Chippers HOF career numbers might never be replaced. He had more RBI than any 3b in history so that’s obviously not easy to replace. Wren needs to replace and improve upon last years team that won 94 games. We are in the very fortunate position to be bringing back most of that team. It won’t be hard to replace Bourns second half production, Hanson’s contribution or JJ’s and we have Medlen and Hudson all season this year.
We’re in better shape than all of this negative talk suggests.
Dylan I would never boil Chippers career down to an unfortunate error at the end. I simply stated that he wasn’t Chipper in his prime at the end and that’s a fact. Replacing the Chipper of the last few years is far more doable than his MVP calibar years.
December 16th, 20123:01 pm
On paper this Braves’ roster does not match up well with Washington.
With Chipper’s leadership and clutch bat retired; Bourn’s speed, leadoff capability & glove gone;and Ross’s backup skill and right-handed bat off the bench gone, this current roster is not better than the 2012 edition, even with the addition of BJ Upton, and the collection of .220 hitting reserves Wren has accumulated.
It will take career years from Uggla and Upton to beat out the Nationals for the division crown.
December 16th, 20123:02 pm
Dylan .. It’s not nasty to say someone’s ideas don’t add up to me .. It is nasty to call people moran’s.
There’s a difference!
December 16th, 20123:05 pm
Oh and before you go, the same time we offered Bourn 1 year – 13.3 mill (”to pease the fans” as you would say) the Rays gave that same offer to Upton. You know nothing man.
i agree chipper’s numbers the past 2 years, in and of themselves aren’t irreplaceable, but even declined as much as he was, he was still the only brave i would want to see with the game on the line. chipper’s numbers weren’t as important as the leadership and stability he provided. he really was a player coach. that clutch gene is just one youre born with, and i don’t see that in any braves hitter yet, though jhey and ff may prove me wrong in the next couple years
December 16th, 20123:09 pm
Sambo… Take your girlfriend from Whales with you and leave us Brave fans alone. I explained to you before that I am not from Australia. Never been there Don’t want to’ I am for the last time a 41 yr old man from Burley, Idaho. I am going to marry my “Angel Eyes” come New Years Eve. Now back to baseball. It would be nice if you knew what the hell you are talking about.
December 16th, 20123:12 pm
Some things we agree on is teams are growing tired of Boras and that Bourn is not worth $100 Million.
I can’t agree that I would want Bourn back for the same money as Upton. He disappeared at the end of the year and if he’s not on base he’s next to worthless because he has very little power. Upton is still on the upswing of his career and Bourn is not. It’s ok to disagree and still root for the same team!
December 16th, 20123:13 pm
iknow nothing? please take a look at the stats of upton and explain to me how he deserved that contract? without 28 hrs, he’s not even worth victorino’s contract. in victorino’s career worst season, he still had a better season than upton. granted, a don’t think victorino was worth his contract, but the point is that with a worse season, hrs, excluded, how is he worth that much more money? that’s what doesn’t make sense to me. i get that he’s younger and has potential, but is that potential and 4 year age difference worth an extra 36 million, and an extra 2 million a year? the second maybe, but not the extra 36 in the long run
December 16th, 20123:15 pm
agreed, i wouldn’t have even wanted to give that much to bourn, i just think he’s a better fit with the braves. upton will give you more hrs, but bourn gives you a much higher avg, and much better defense. either way, i don;t think either are worth that money at this point, i just feel upton is a horrible fit for this team, other than hes RH
December 16th, 20123:18 pm
Dylan …. I agree about Chipper’s clutch gene. That’s what makes the great ones great. I see it sprouting in Heyward and Freeman and have a hunch about Simmons too.
Let’s hope they prove to be just that.
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