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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
5,326 comments Add your comment
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
5:42 pm
who probably couldn’t hit the ball to CF if necessary….
Must be thinking of Constanza… Petey posted a .438 Slugging when he started, higher than BJs 4 year avg. (or career avg.)… good OBP in 4-5 of 6 months, good contact. Quick bat. Much better defender. 14mil less. Higher OPS and OPS+ than BJ has posted since 2008.
Did notice something interesting… BJs babip is going down for his career. .393 in 2007, .344 in 08, .310, .304, .298, .294
Down down down
nolie
December 18th, 2012
5:42 pm
scoots, actually I’m not sure what I want. I an going to try to rehandle some Kershaw and CRKT EDC type folder with exotic wood scales. I am tired of looking at all that black synthetic, which is great on a tactical folder but not needed on an every day carry knife . Guns, knives etc I love natural materials…wood, stag, buffalo bome, sheep ivory etc
I can get scales from around 1/4 inch thick to 3/3 think, but the average scale on a midsized folder is gonna be about 1/8 thick so I need something to grind them down flat to about that thickness b4 I finish by hand. Ironwood and Cocobola and ebony are damn hard to take down with hand tools to that extent.
the pieces are about 5″ long so a disc would have to be 12″ to be useful, I’d like a combo but most affordable ones have smaller discs that 12′” often 6.
Open to suggestions by you or any friends
VaBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
5:53 pm
I like Bourjos a little more than most, but I definitely wouldn’t give up Teheran or Delgado for him… If the price makes some sense I’m a buyer. I’d love his defense in LF with Prado at 3B fulltime. Plus he’s not a speedy singles hitter either, he actually had 49 XBH in 2011, plus has great wheels.
Of course we could do a whole lot better and actually our in-house options could easily be more productive. But Bourjos does give us a speed and defensive boost, with that questionable bat with some potential.
VaBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
5:58 pm
I’m surprised there hasn’t been many rumors about Josh Willingham. At this point he could fetch the Twins some much needed youth. They must really wanna keep him.
Zing
December 18th, 2012
5:58 pm
There’s always a tension between moral worth and worth assigned by the market. Capitalism is essentially amoral, so you get these dichotomies between what we feel someone “deserves” and what they actually receive as a result of supply and demand. I think that is a legitimate response; I believe a lot of times people mistake money for validation. Supply and demand doesn’t validate anything other than that it’s the system in place. It’s up to us as human beings to adjudge morality (as best we can).
It’s a legitimate response to the argument that “that guy doesn’t deserve all that money, look at those schoolteachers” to respond that (1) the ballplayer is playing by the rules (market rules), which is a kind of moral thing to do I suppose, and (2) why don’t you change the system instead of complaining about it?
I’ll now put down my copy of Karl Marx and return to thinking of LF options for the Bravos.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
6:00 pm
As of now, my pick for LF is Mark Bowman… he covers a good amount of the OF, right?
Zing
December 18th, 2012
6:00 pm
And scoots (responding to a post of yours a while ago), I only pointed out that all that had to happen was Uggla and Simmons scuffle and Laird be Laird in the early going to have a black hole at the end of the lineup.
I’m really hoping that Uggla finally has the year we all expect him to have next year, though. And I think Simmons is too good to mess up too much, though I also think that people have set some pretty high expectations for him.
nolie
December 18th, 2012
6:02 pm
sure we don’t really know that Bourjos will fail as a hitter, if he is reasonable get him, but I would not give up a top 6 player for him , perhaps a couple of slightly lower ones
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
6:04 pm
Karl Marx? Isn’t that one of Dentz’s heroes?
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
6:05 pm
I think I’d pay Upton even more money just to have him in CF rather than Peter Bourjos – who probably couldn’t hit the ball to CF if necessary….
ba dum tss
This ^
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
6:05 pm
The Twins already got rid of two outfileders, perhaps they think that a third would be too many?
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
6:07 pm
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
cody ross, vernon wells on #phillies radar. http://cbsprt.co/RCC2dn
Vernon Wells, Cody Ross…. that choice shouldn’t be hard
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
6:08 pm
Petey posted a .438 Slugging when he started, higher than BJs 4 year avg. (or career avg.)… good OBP in 4-5 of 6 months, good contact. Quick bat. Much better defender. 14mil less. Higher OPS and OPS+ than BJ has posted since 2008.
ONE year. Small sample size.
Zing
December 18th, 2012
6:12 pm
Let’s just not have a left fielder– what do you say? More ABs for Prado, Heyward, McCann, etc.!!
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
6:12 pm
He was essentially the same player in the minors…. .760 OPS or better, the lowest SLG he ever had was .423. Crushed at AAA in 2010.
.293/.347/.454/.801 career in the minor leagues.
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
6:14 pm
well if the Braves played in the minors, we would be really excited by him.
I bet that AAA year was in the PCL wasn’t it?
MFin04
December 18th, 2012
6:15 pm
“Vernon Wells, Cody Ross…. that choice shouldn’t be hard”
Yeh, I thought Michael Bourn vs BJ Upton wouldn’t be that hard either…but look how that one turned out…
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
6:18 pm
He was essentially the same player in the minors
That’s the problem. The fact that he repeats his minor league numbers in ONE year doesn’t mean he’ll do it every year. I’ve seen his minor league numbers and they’re pretty good, love them. But he was awful last season and theres no way we can know for sure if he’ll be able to provide what the Braves need, hence why it wouldn’t be all that wise to trade resources [pitching] for him.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
6:26 pm
I guess I look at it differently…. I see a guy who was a steady performer in the minors, reached the majors at 23. When he got an opportunity to start, he posted those same steady and good numbers. When he was a part-timer and had some injury issues (’10 and ‘12), he struggled. I can why some would be hesitant to acquire him, but I’m not so worried. Lots of potential in that bat, he’s just 25… and can be acquired “cheaply”.
JasonInFL
December 18th, 2012
6:27 pm
Well, we are all supposed to be excited for Gattis as the next slugger (hope he is) and he has never done anything about AA and is crushing pitchers in the Winter league that on on par with AA…
You don’t simply ignore minor league stats when trying to gauge the effectiveness of a young ballplayer! That’s silly.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
6:28 pm
yes, his AAA was in the PCL, it looks about 100 points better on his OPS (.861 in AAA)… .760 or better everywhere else, including the MLB
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
6:28 pm
TOBF
Have you thought about how BJ’s first two full seasons were awesome, and then came the huge drop off in some of his numbers, despite being considered a future superstar at first? And have you seen his minor league numbers? Check them out…
I can’t understand how you dislike Upton so much, and yet love Bourjos the way you do :/
DiamondbackMac
December 18th, 2012
6:30 pm
Lew – But the Bacon WOULD be nice.
I have a feeling that the ejecta from flying pigs would be much worse than that from pigeons. Heaven help us all.
nolie
December 18th, 2012
6:34 pm
If I had a dollar for every prospect who failed to approach his minor league stats in the majors, I would be out driving my Lamborghini instead of hanging around here wearing my fingers to the bone..
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
6:35 pm
If Bourjos played for 4 years and posted mediocre stats like BJ did and wanted to be paid 15+mil, I wouldn’t be happy. But right now, he’s 25, has 1 full year, and is cheap. Quite different imo.
BJs first year had a ridiculously high babip (.393)
Norris Chuck
December 18th, 2012
6:36 pm
Phils Interested In Vernon Wells, Still In On Cody Ross
By Mark Polishuk [December 18 at 5:26pm CST]
The Phillies are still pursuing free agent Cody Ross and also have interest in acquiring Angels outfielder Vernon Wells, reports Jon Heyman of CBS Sports. As Heyman notes, Philadelphia is looking for a right-handed hitting outfielder who can be slotted behind Ryan Howard in the lineup. Ross would be the ideal fit for this role, as it’s hard to expect Wells to serve as suitable lineup protection given how his production has dropped off in each of the last two seasons.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#8GhE87bkLEqvdVHf.99
Lew
December 18th, 2012
6:38 pm
DBack – Hence the improbabilty thereof.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
6:42 pm
Ricky Mast @RickyMast
Not sure why everybody’s worried about Braves getting a left fielder. All they need is a second shortstop. #InfieldFly
Janish for 2nd SS.
flange1
December 18th, 2012
6:42 pm
nolie,
If you had a dollar for every time TOBF mentioned Bourjos on this blog you could be driving a Lamborghini!
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
6:43 pm
If I had a dollar for every prospect who failed to approach his minor league stats in the majors, I would be out driving my Lamborghini instead of hanging around here wearing my fingers to the bone..
But he was able to replicate them in the majors, even if just for 1 full season. That has to count for something, right? He wasn’t a starter when he posted the ugly stats…
nolie
December 18th, 2012
6:45 pm
true dat flange….
JasonInFL
December 18th, 2012
6:46 pm
Of course, Noles…but they don’t normally rate top prospects who put up awful stats either. But, that’s why a prospect is a prospect. Who was the Angles IF that was a can’t miss and hit 40+ HRs in the minors…Wood?
That’s why I overpay and pry Willingham away from the Twins!
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
6:47 pm
The only way I wouldn’t mad at the idea of the Braves getting Bourjos, it’s if the Angels wrap him up as a christmas gift and give him away for nothing:
“Hey Wren, here you go, you can have him as a Christmas gift!!”
And still wouldn’t make me feel an ounce of excitement…
nolie
December 18th, 2012
6:48 pm
I don’t really understand why you think being a starter the good year and not a starter the two bad years makes all that much difference
anyway, like I’ve said get him if he is cheap, but I don’t think he is as cheap as either Frank or I are interested in. we’ll see
JasonInFL
December 18th, 2012
6:50 pm
…now Trumbo on the other hand…re: Bourjos
nolie
December 18th, 2012
6:52 pm
I’m not thrilled by Trumbo either
JasonInFL
December 18th, 2012
6:52 pm
I don’t think I would be interested in Wells if they paid the Braves MORE than he is owed.
DiamondbackMac
December 18th, 2012
6:53 pm
Here’s a humorous take on the end of the world Friday by a talented future meteorologist.
https://twitter.com/bravesfanjulien/status/281170986903171074/photo/1
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
6:55 pm
The song remains the same
JasonInFL
December 18th, 2012
6:58 pm
Really, Noles? Don’t think he would be a good addition? All depends on the price I guess. .808 OPS is not bad, has some pop, but certainly doesn’t walk or get on base at a great clip.
MFin04
December 18th, 2012
7:00 pm
Trumbo at this point would be a great addition. I mean gosh at this point I’m getting pretty concerned. We really need a .850 OPS guy in LF to make this season bearable and I’m just not seeing that guy…
nolie
December 18th, 2012
7:00 pm
he totally fell apart the second half of last season, just terrible so to me there are questions about him.
I am not a fan of players whose only asset is power, thats just me
MFin04
December 18th, 2012
7:03 pm
“am not a fan of players whose only asset is power, thats just me”
I bet you love a CF whose only asset is power then…
nolie
December 18th, 2012
7:04 pm
you musta missed my 18 month rant against him MF
MFin04
December 18th, 2012
7:06 pm
“you musta missed my 18 month rant against him MF”
Lol. That or I don’t think an 18 month rant is enough.
I just don’t understand getting a CF to hit anywhere other than leadoff. Especially a below average defensive CF who can’t hit leadoff. Sigh. Hope Simmons can hit leadoff, but I doubt it. We still need an on base and slugging threat in LF.
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
7:14 pm
Schafef LF and leadoff.
Goose Godsey
December 18th, 2012
7:16 pm
Murphy is in my Hall of Fame. He was and is a legend for my generation of “Bravos” fans….
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
7:16 pm
If that doesn’t work then give Georgie a try
JasonInFL
December 18th, 2012
7:18 pm
If Schafer is anywhere near the starting lineup let alone hitting leadoff, this team is in big, big trouble.
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
7:18 pm
I would say something about a new blog but I don’t want to offend Nolie and Ace.
mace224
December 18th, 2012
7:19 pm
Converting from catcher to centerfielder is impressive in itself. And a golden glover at that.
JasonInFL
December 18th, 2012
7:19 pm
…and in just as big of a mess if not bigger if Georgie is anywhere near the starting lineup let alone leadoff…
MFin04
December 18th, 2012
7:19 pm
“Schafef LF and leadoff.”
Sounds like we are becoming the Marlins and Astros. Next we should trade away Hudson, McCann, Uggla, Maholm, and Upton for a package deal of some “stellar” prospects.
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
7:20 pm
Maybe Nolie is Ace. He wasn’t around while Nolie was in bozoland.
JasonInFL
December 18th, 2012
7:20 pm
5 times at that…
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
7:22 pm
we all know that you are ACE and I doubt anybody is offended, just sympathetic for your troubles
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
7:23 pm
A few quotes we will hear a lot in 2013
Just got to keep running them out there
You have to believe the back of the bubble gum card.
You just have to tip your cap to_______
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
7:25 pm
I just don’t understand getting a CF to hit anywhere other than leadoff.
I remember when Jim Edmonds used to hit leadoff for the Cards, he was so good… And Andruw for the Braves, and Griffey for the Mariners/Reds…
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
7:26 pm
I can truly say I would rather be called Ace than Half empty
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
7:28 pm
half empty=hoorah
Enquiring Minds Want To Know
December 18th, 2012
7:29 pm
To all those hyperventilating about “How are we ever going to replace Chipper’s numbers!”
Chipper’s line last year: .287/.377/.455/.832. 14 HR and 23 doubles. He played in 112 games. Most of the damage was done in the first half. Yeah, I think the Braves can come up with that from someone else.
I am in no way disparaging Chipper’s career, but I think we got the last bit of goody there. You’re remembering the Chipper that was, not the one that actually played last year.
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
7:30 pm
nope sorry ACE
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
7:31 pm
What does Fredi have in common with Mike Smith.
Neither has won a playoff game.
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
7:32 pm
the one who actually played last year won us a number of games in the clutch. I do not see anybody on this team that can replace him
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
7:34 pm
Schafer and Georgie are two guys who should be out the org.. trouble if they even sniff the 25man
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
7:34 pm
you should be able to relate to that ACE, you have never made an intelligent comment
old man
December 18th, 2012
7:36 pm
TOBF:
Generally, I tend to agree with your view on things. Or, I should say I rarely agree with you, but often come close to agreeing. Is that different? I think it is.
I picture Schafer when he had that unbelievable two week stretch to begin a season (3 years ago?), and I will call that a 10. Right now, Schafer’s upside is a 3. I’ve written him off. Bourjos’ is going to perform in the 6-13 range on my “damn Schafer looked good for two weeks” scale. So his upside is a 13. Bourjos is like a Schafer on steroids, except he’s not on steroids. I remind some of my post last week:
Schafer + more glove + more arm + more HRs + more XBH + more speed + brain = Bourjos
To me, it would be worth a Spruill or Gilmartin plus one or two lower level people to get Bourjos. He would give us insurance against all of these guys tanking:
Gattis
Francisco
Uggla
Johnson
And he might just beat out everyone for LF, give us a long term outfield option, and make all the guys listed above valuable trade bait. I’m not sure you just give him LF, but if you threw him into the mix on our LF/3B problem, I don’t see how you go wrong.
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
7:36 pm
The only thing outta those numbers that’ll be difficult to replace this season, it’s the OBP.
Enquiring Minds Want To Know
December 18th, 2012
7:36 pm
Clutch! I think Shaun has already disproved the existence of Clutch. More than once.
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
7:38 pm
and the slugging % and the OPS. nobody here is gonna do that, not Francisco, not Upton, not any additions
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
7:40 pm
The only thing that Shaun has proved to most of us is that he is OCD and does not really understand the math behind the stats.
Even Bill James has lately admitted that he has changed his thoughts about clutch. Keep up
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
7:40 pm
it would be worth a Spruill or Gilmartin plus one or two lower level people to get Bourjos.
Wren is not that stupid, I hope.
old man
December 18th, 2012
7:41 pm
Enquiring Minds and JC Brave:
Together you have made a great point. Spot on.
old man
December 18th, 2012
7:42 pm
JC Brave, no fair!!
I just said you had half a brain, and you said I had none!!
nolie
December 18th, 2012
7:42 pm
Together you have made a great point. Spot on.
sigh
keyLargo
December 18th, 2012
7:50 pm
Nolie – you need a planer to get your exact depth and an oscillating palm sander to do your finish sanding that you are describing. Delta makes a very good portable planer that will take up to 12″ wide stock.
All companies like DeWalt, Porter Cable, Milwaukee or Makita make the palm sander. Buy the professional models as there is a big gap in quality from the homeowner models to the professional stuff.
kenhotlanta
December 18th, 2012
7:50 pm
Half Empty @ 7:22: Ditto. And I don’t have a problem with ACE, he’s a big music geek, which makes him OK in my book.
old man
December 18th, 2012
7:53 pm
nolie, my dear:
I’ll wager that our combined OPS of starting eight will be 150 points higher this year compared to last year.
So your sigh must be a sigh of disappointment, that you did not affirm the optimism of Enquiring Minds and JC Brave before I did. Don’t worry, it’s only because I type faster.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 18th, 2012
8:01 pm
150???
Nowhere man
December 18th, 2012
8:01 pm
I think you guys have double vision.
nolie
December 18th, 2012
8:04 pm
I’ll wager that our combined OPS of starting eight will be 150 points higher this year compared to last year.
i’ll take that bet, but i need to warn you up front that it is impossible
Brava
December 18th, 2012
8:06 pm
JIM BOWDEN @JimBowdenESPNxm
Padres are out on Edwin Jackson after refusing to go to 4 years….destination down to Cubs and Rangers
Tom O'Hawke
December 18th, 2012
8:09 pm
i’ll take that bet, but i need to warn you up front that it is impossible — nolie
Because 2 guys won’t be returning?
nolie
December 18th, 2012
8:11 pm
no because it is impossible, you can’t combine percentages you can only average them, and no matter who we have the average is not gonna change by 150 points either way
cabravesfan
December 18th, 2012
8:11 pm
Thomas causing problems already?
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
8:13 pm
Some of the stuff that people say on here is mindboggling. Better to keep quiet, etc
Tom O'Hawke
December 18th, 2012
8:13 pm
Ahh, I got you, nolie.
Hi cabravesfan. No, no problem causing yet. Just trying to join in a bit.
Half Empty
December 18th, 2012
8:14 pm
oh well, everybody take care
cabravesfan
December 18th, 2012
8:14 pm
Tom-
Well, the night is young
nolie
December 18th, 2012
8:15 pm
Tom can join in any time
George_George
December 18th, 2012
8:15 pm
JC Brave
December 18th, 2012
6:28 pm
TOBF
Have you thought about how BJ’s first two full seasons were awesome, and then came the huge drop off in some of his numbers, despite being considered a future superstar at first? And have you seen his minor league numbers? Check them out…
I can’t understand how you dislike Upton so much, and yet love Bourjos the way you do :/
*************************************************************************************************
JC Brave
Did you stop to think during BJs first two full seasons AL pitching may have found a glaring weakness in his hitting that has caused the fall off from that point on. I don’t see how FRANK WREN could have looked at his stats for past four years and wanted him.
Tom O'Hawke
December 18th, 2012
8:16 pm
That’s right, cabravesfan, that’s why I added “yet”. Just in case…
Did you & Jim enjoy the finale of “Homeland”?
cabravesfan
December 18th, 2012
8:18 pm
Tom-
Very much. Do you watch it?
Tom O'Hawke
December 18th, 2012
8:19 pm
I’ve never seen it. Don’t even know what channel it’s on. All I hear about it, however, is how good it is.
cabravesfan
December 18th, 2012
8:20 pm
It’s on Showtime and it’s excellent
nolie
December 18th, 2012
8:22 pm
very good show. I haven’t watched this season yet so I hope folks will indulge me with a SPOILER ALERT if they discuss it.
cabravesfan
December 18th, 2012
8:23 pm
nolie-
Seeing as how I am always asking folks not to post award show (or live finale) results, you will not have to worry about spoilers from me
George_George
December 18th, 2012
8:23 pm
Outta here, going for walk with Peanut, have a good one, nite all.
Tom O'Hawke
December 18th, 2012
8:24 pm
I don’t have Showtime, so you don’t have to worry about me, nolie.
cabravesfan
You mentioned something about hoping it would be raining the next morning, so you didn’t have to work out.
Where do you work out… on the beach?
Tom O'Hawke
December 18th, 2012
8:26 pm
I’m, almost, afraid to ask… why does George have 2 Georges in his moniker, now?