In last year on HOF ballot, case made for ‘Murph’

If you’re gonna’ go wishin’, conjecture a real player, MIKE TROUT or OSCAR TAVARAS.

I’m more and more convinced it’s Plan ‘C’ for the BRAVES. We’ll see what chemistry develops amongst the regulars, and McCANN, SIMMONS, UPTON, LAIRD, PENA, GATTIS, FRANCISCO, MEJIA, TEHERAN, DELGADO, BEACHY, CARPENTER, WALDEN.

That’s a lot of new and re-tooled moving parts. Potentially half a team.

94 wins? More? Less?

Now if i was a betting man, I’d say too much mystery early to reach 94 again, or exceed that number, but sometines guys click. There’s always a chance.

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They have to at least be realistic, Richbrave.

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And RIOS is ? Plueeze.

Get a solid player or stay home. I’m betting on the latter.

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I know this has been discussed here before, but I can’t remember. Is there a reason, if no decent deal presents itself, why we cannot lock up Prado with a 3 x 8M or a 4 X 7M deal? He made 4.74M last year./

He’s due to make about 7.7mil this season, so if we lock him up longer than that, he’d need to get a raise to atleast 9mil annually. FA market is really weak though, he could get much more if he wanted to. He’s the only good 3B available next winter. Was hoping we could do 5/40 for him before, but now it will probably take 5/60

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Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
Evaluators around MLB are beyond shocked TOR is talking about trading Travis d’Arnaud for a player with one year on his contract, Dickey.

Efrim must love to see that!

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The Choo and Dickey gets are only serving to drive up the costs of potential trade targets anyway. I think the trade market has evolved in a manner this offseason that FW did not expect. Personally, I bet he thought it would be a little easier and that the prices wouldn’t be so ridiculous.

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Prognosticators here are becoming more and more frantic as their fancied plums are picked one by one leaving the unripened fruit higher up and out of reach.

Remember, the management likes our prospects. To their way of thinking, they have no need of a LF’er with GATTIS quasi-ready. The other teams are the ones with a need.

Ours was CF, an arm for the pen, and two bench players. All are in hand.

If folks want to cherry-pick the BRAVES in a trade it won’t happen believe me.

WREN’s a tough-minded old bird with his prospects to back him up.

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KeyLargo, good to dig up a new name. People need to keep throwing them out there. I agree with some of the doubts above. But what if the Sox need to shed salary to sign a pitcher? What if this Alabama kid, raised in Puerto Rico, has not lived up to full potential in cold Toronto and cold Chicago? I see one of his down years is really just the second half of a season after a mid-year trade, maybe an adjustment problem. Rios has size, speed, and arm.

On balance, I agree with others Rios is unlikely. But if Wren surprised us, I would be enthusiastic.

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“….. I think the trade market has evolved in a manner this offseason that FW did not expect. Personally, I bet he thought it would be a little easier and that the prices wouldn’t be so ridiculous…..”

Now we’re on the same page. I’m bettin’ WREN takes his marbles and goes home.

BOURNE for one is still a possibility at 14 or so.

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TOBF,

As a non-FA player, I would give a discount on a long term deal because it’s guaranteed. I don’t have to worry that my next arb year will be bad, or even worse, that I will have a serious injury. That has to be a player’s nightmare, going through six years of league minimum and arb, and then the last week of the season shredding your Achilles tendon, or getting diagnosed with a chronic illness, or your eyes go bad. Remember, Prado is playing right next to Uggla and McCann. What if their issues had cropped up one or two seasons earlier? If Prado’s arb offers come in at 6M and 8M, and before the arbitration itself you jump in and give Prado his number–8M–for 4 years or 5 years, that might be persuasive.

TOBF, you are probably right, anything south of 10M probably would not work. My only point is that when the club makes a pre-emptive long term offer, you can take the current FA market value, and discount it some, because the player is selling his risk to the team. The unknown is how much discount.

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Unless there is trade for a LFer, Martin Prado will start in LF and Jaun Francisco will start at 3B. Saying different a hundred times won’t change that.

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good points, old man.

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I am starting to come to grips with the internal options too. It just takes me a little longer than most! But, let me be clear, whoever is in the starting lineup with have my backing and I will root like heck for them!

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It will be interesting to see where Bourn ends up. I doubt he takes a 1 year deal though. But, if he isn’t getting the offers he likes, he may take a 1 year deal and reestablish his value. I just don’t see it.

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TOBF”

‘Yanked’ being the operative word.

Being offered arb salary time and again without a long-term deal in prospect, what would you think of being yanked around? When my time came as a free agent, I’d split and not look back. Somebody need a great bat and 2B glove. I’m your man. How much?

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I’d split and not look back

Me too.

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Just saw that Led Zeppelin members Robert Plant and John Paul Jones and Jimmy Page are going to be interviewed at 9 am this morning on the CBS show “Sunday Morning”.

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Been telling y’all all along that they were going to go with Francisco as – at the very least – part of a platoon.

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Or the title of the steve correl movie “Evan Almighty”, that nickname might be too much to live up to.

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Heath

I agree that. I’m not sure where the claims that Prado “wants” to play 3B full time come from. I’d really be disappointed that he was no longer going to do what was the best for the team, what got him to MLB and while making an estimated $7.7 M.

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I agree with that is what I meant Heath.

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I live 90 miles north of Cuba and FOX’s local channel gives me Buffalo vs. Seattle played in Toronto as the “game of the week”.

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BraveDan – He had considered flying down there, but they’ve been drug testing him.

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Brave Dan – He had considered flying down there, but they’ve been drug testing him regularly.

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1. Travis d’Arnaud, c
2. Zack Wheeler, rhp
3. Gavin Cecchini, ss
4. Brandon Nimmo, of
5. Noah Syndergaard, rhp
6. Luis Mateo, rhp
7. Rafeal Montero, rhp
8. Wilmer Flores, 3b
9. Michael Fulmer, rhp
10. Domingo Tapia, rhp

That would be the Mets new Top 10 and would be among the best in baseball.

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JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
The Blue Jays – Mets deal is expected to be completed in next 24 hours…Blue Jays would like to extend Dickey prior to closing deal

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VaBraves – And just because they haven’t spent all available money by December 16, doesn’t mean that they won’t spend it. And it doesn’t mean our prospects are not desired or that they are substandard – it just means that with a limited payroll, they may have more value to the team remaining Braves than any outrageous demandes for players to play positions we could cover by players we already have.

Y’all are way impatient and way too fixated on how much money the Braves will spend.

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Blue Jays are going for it… can’t blame them, they’ve been stockpiling for a while now, and now they have a chance to take the AL East.

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Lew

But most of the options we would consider upgrades for LF are off the board. As of right now I don’t see a sure fire upgrade over our current platoon options. Most of the names mentioned come have some question marks and mainly are potential type players.

Fowler, plays in Coors and his splits show it. From Atlanta and looks like a exciting player.

Bourjos, defensive stud with blazing speed, very questionable bat

Trumbo, Big power, but really doesn’t have a position.

Just to name those 3 right now, they are not for sure upgrades in LF for us. If Francisco and Johnson are used correctly they have the potential to put up good numbers combined.

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VaBRaves – Every single player you could possibly sign has questions attached. Does not matter in the least who it is. And all the options YOU and a few others here can think of are off the table. There could be options y’all haven’t considered or who are flying under the radar.

And so what if we go with our own players? Spending a ton of money has proven to be a crapshoot even at humongously stupid levels of salary (getting stupider by the day). Look at last year – on paper, the Angels and Tigers were supposed to dominate the world of baseball, yet they didn’t. The Angels never made the playoffs and the Tigers were damned lucky that they did. And then look at the WS – the two teams with the worst records played for the championship. Go freaking figure.

The Braves have a good – if not greatr rotation. They have one of the best – if not THE best bullpen in baseball. They have at least (more if Gattis or Francisco hit like we feel they will) five players capable of hitting 20-35 HR. They have two players who are boina fide 30-30 possibilities. They have a top of the order with Prado, who was top ten in hits last year and a .300 hitter, capable of playing wherever they need him to. They have a good defense. They will score lots of runs. The pitchers will not give up lots of runs.

Will Laird be as good a back up as Ross? Who knows. But I’m not basing my hopes for the season on whether or not he will be and neither should you.

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I’m not a Dickey believer, I bet he is nothing close to his 2012 performance going forward.

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RE: Payroll

There has been much discussion recently about the Braves payroll, and estimates. Below is information on the “hidden costs” included in every teams payroll, which is not reflected on the Cot’s spreadsheets The definition for “payroll” under the newest collective bargaining agreement is as follows: “Payrolls are for 40-man rosters and include averages of multiyear contracts; health and pension benefits; clubs medical costs; insurance; workman’s compensation, payroll, unemployment and Social Security taxes; spring training allowances; meal and tip money; All-Star game expenses; travel and moving expenses; postseason pay; and college scholarships.”

A baseball source said the annual expense for medical benefits typically runs between $10 and $11 million per season. We’ll split it down the middle for our purposes and say $10.5 million.

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At present, the deal looks like three-for-four trade with Dickey, Josh Thole, and a Mets prospect going to the Blue Jays for Travis d’Arnaud, Noah Syndergaard, John Buck, and a prospect.

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Rios could be a nice addition, if salary is picked up. Is Toronto paying some of his salary already?
Another ChiSox to think about is Alejandro DeAza. Couls fit nicelt in LF and leadoff. White Sox may need a 3RD baseman (Francisco) with Youkalis off to NYY.

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richbrave – Even in his 56 game streak season, Joe D went ofer a couple of times, right? I’m not gonna hold it against Juan. And he only struck out once, didn’t he? That alone is reason for optimism.

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And let’s not forget that had we signed Hamilton, Span, Victorino, Fowler, Bourjos, Pagan, Bourn, Willingham, Swisher, Rios, or anyone – half (at the very least) of the fans would have been unhappy anyway.

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‘…..keyLargo
December 16th, 2012
8:59 am

Just saw that Led Zeppelin members Robert Plant and John Paul Jones and Jimmy Page are going to be interviewed at 9 am this morning on the CBS show “Sunday Morning”…..”

Much better than a discourse on the state of mental health in this country, and the lack of treatment for the mentally ill.

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but if he’s playing for us as part of a platoon, I’ll support him. And be preparing my good-byes to Prado.

Hopefully his defense is better too… big arm, but below avg. range. Needs to improve that.

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Lew, did you really think about your post of Joe DiMaggio’s 56 game hit streak before you sent it? There can be NO 0-fer games in a 56 game hit streak. By definition!

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Discourse on the state of mental health? You are familiar with the Mudshark story?

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Peter Bourjos would only represent a major defensive improvement if he played most of the time. Prado would be a upgrade at 3rd and Bourjos is better than Prado in the OF. Bourjos would also add a ton of speed. But his bat is questionable. He’s only been a everyday player for 1 season and had a solid year. But is coming off a part time season with an injury. But were still talking about a guy who in 2011 played elite defense with 49 XBH and 22 SB.. So it’s a crapshoot and would likely depend on how much he played. But he’s also young, cheap and controllable.

Back to the payroll talk, I guess we never had intentions of maintaining around a 95 million payroll. Cause some players we’d like to bring in could be cheaper. But it would also be nice to see Wren get Heyward and Prado locked up this offseason. Even if it means paying a little more than we’d like in the 1st year of the contract cause after all we have the money.

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Lew

Is this it? “Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope.”

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Geno – I said in his 56 game hit streak SEASON. He didn’t have a 162 game streak, although after the 56 games were up, he went ofer for one game and started another streak. He even beat out a .400 hitting Ted Williams for MVP that year.

So yeah, I DID think about it. But before I hear snarky puppy whilings, NO, I didn’t see it first hand. I’,m not quite that old.

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There are ways Wren can use the available money in a positive way. Basically use it or lose it.

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DBack – That’s the one – only I think they used Pot instead of dope. Guess you won a drawing.

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PRADO just wants to be a team player I guess. Just use me whereever. I’m good, as long as I’m in the big leagues.

PRADO’s a pretty zipped up kind of guy.

I wouldn’t know what he thinks, but if the BRAVES don’t lock him up now, they stand a good chance of losing him in FA.

There are going to be even bigger offers in FA next season, not less. Especially for arguably the best # 2 bat in the ML’s with a terrific glove at 2B, in LF, and 3B if this upcoming season is successful. Plus a fill-in at SS, and 1B. A Mr. Versatility-type with a co-operative attitude.

If I’m 10 other ML owners, my wallet’s open with a “what do you want attitude,” and with all the new t.v. money flooding into my club.

That’s where we’ll be at the beginning of next off-season, if there’s no contract this go round.

To my mind, the BRAVES have pushed this just as far as they can afford to go, if they want PRADO into the forseeable future.

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Who know’s if Prado gets to stick at 1 position for most of his starts he could be a even better player.

Prado’s Splits.

204 Games at 2nd Base 310 AVG 843 OPS

177 Games at 3rd Base 285 AVG 709 OPS

217 Games in Left Field 287 AVG 777 OPS

pretty cool, he has a 915 OPS as a pinch hitter in his career.

139 Games Batting Lead Off 298 AVG 809 OPS

344 Games Batting 2nd 290 AVG 761 OPS

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PRADO for 5 at 11.5 million per. He turned 29 on October 27.

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DBack – I promise you that Wikipedia is wrong – as they often are. No matter, you won. Besides the point remains the same despite the wording. Money won’t always help you if what you want to purchase just isn’t available.

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Frank Wren in Nashville made a statement to the effect that he would look at extensions in January. I’ll take him at his word on that one and hope he locks up Prado for a very, very long time.

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