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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
5,326 comments Add your comment
NV049
December 10th, 2012
2:49 pm
Nice article Than,ks DOB . Murphy is a great person .
Chief Knock-A-Homa
December 10th, 2012
2:49 pm
First
PuddyCat
December 10th, 2012
2:50 pm
I’ve linked useful info to help folks out here maybe 20-22 times, but never will I help anyone out ever again. Keep your snarky attitudes and find things yourself from now on. Jerks
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=I%20am%20too%20lazy%20to%20look%20for%20the%20Mike%20Minor%20for%20Wil%20Myers%20trade%20rumor
ncgary
December 10th, 2012
2:50 pm
wouldn’t you know it joe polish and richard branson are in atlanta tonight, now theres who liberty needs to sell too
Tumbledown
December 10th, 2012
2:51 pm
While his career falls short of gaining entry into Cooperstown, Murphy definitely would get in the “Hall of Great Character” if there was such a place. I really enjoyed watching him play in the 80s.
Murph
December 10th, 2012
2:52 pm
Thanks for the new blog DOB.
I wish Murphy had a fighting chance to make the HoF, but I don’t think he does. Too bad, really, but his numbers are what they are.
Chief Knock-A-Homa
December 10th, 2012
2:52 pm
DOB
Anything on the possibility of a Corey Hart trade??
I think it would be a huge pickup even though it’s not the leadoff bat we’re looking for…
What are your thoughts on what it would take to make a deal to get him??
ncgary
December 10th, 2012
2:52 pm
my girlfriend knows them and i told her it looks like stem cell is the only thing that will save me, so shes got them investigating it for me
Rick C
December 10th, 2012
2:54 pm
“I’ve linked useful info to help folks out here maybe 20-22 times, but never will I help anyone out ever again.”
Translation: I have no source for the Minor for Myers trade.
Atlanta Mom
December 10th, 2012
2:55 pm
I have often wondered what kind of numbers Murphy would have put up, if he’d had anyone hitting behind him.
cc
December 10th, 2012
2:55 pm
He belongs in the Hall, plain and simple. For his integrity if nothing else. They don’t make him like that anymore.
ncgary
December 10th, 2012
2:55 pm
weii i guess when your dad owns ac controls and sells to every military fat cat around you tend to meet the movers and shakers. hopefully they can move and shake me back to normalcy
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 10th, 2012
2:55 pm
Thanks Chief!
No wonder Lew and 10-12 others jack you all the time
Don’t play like that….
Fredi Gonzalez
December 10th, 2012
2:55 pm
You have to tip your cap to Murph
ncscoots
December 10th, 2012
2:57 pm
Translation: I have no source for the Minor for Myers trade.
In fairness, he did say “Look it up.”
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 10th, 2012
2:57 pm
not seeing anything Ward….
Georgia Sports Report
December 10th, 2012
2:58 pm
Dave, this is the best blog you’ve ever written. Really enjoyed it.
ncscoots
December 10th, 2012
2:58 pm
not seeing anything
It’s a joke link, man. Read the URL he posted.
Murph
December 10th, 2012
3:00 pm
Never ever never click a link posted by an angry person who goes by the name PuddyCat. Never.
It’s in my manifesto, page 612. You have read the manifesto, right? Then you should know that.
Tumbledown
December 10th, 2012
3:01 pm
Anyone think there is a match between the Rangers and Braves involving a trade of Teheran or Delgado for Olt? Rangers have not been able to land a truly “premium” starter. Maybe they would be willing to take a chance on Teheran to compete for the No. 4 or 5 starter position. Just a thought. Please do not skewer me as I welcome knowing why this might be a bad idea.
raleighbravefan
December 10th, 2012
3:01 pm
PuddyWard – No need to get huffy.
njbraves
December 10th, 2012
3:03 pm
Great guy, heck of a player, not a HOF’er. Sorry.
Real Talk
December 10th, 2012
3:03 pm
Murph is a HOF’er for sure!! I think DOB another thing that should be taken into consideration when evaluating players is who was around him in his career and when you look at Murph, you see outstanding #’s when he had anyone else in the lineup, but for most of his career at the end the Braves were abissmal!!!
Steve from OH
December 10th, 2012
3:03 pm
Murph’s son writes pretty well.
Bud
December 10th, 2012
3:03 pm
I whole-heartedly agree that Murphy should be in the Hall. You never know with the voters though. And as far as the character and integirity issue go, two players, who smuggled illegal narcotics after they retired, won election to the HoF.
LJ
December 10th, 2012
3:05 pm
Future looks good even if no LF is signed
DAP
December 10th, 2012
3:05 pm
i love murphy and think he should get in the hall. i admit he is a borderline case, but ive said that if a guy like andre dawson or jim rice can get in, murph oughta get in.
njbraves
December 10th, 2012
3:05 pm
I thought Frank Wren was going after “premium” players this off season?
smallmouth6
December 10th, 2012
3:05 pm
I was in college for much of Murphy, too, but I did watch him a lot. For two years NOBODY was better than him. He will always be among my favorite players, HOF or not.
Kid Handsome
December 10th, 2012
3:07 pm
You have to wonder how many of the 90’s crop of HGH’ers and Roiders would stack up against Murph if they hadn’t had chemical advantages. Not that Murph would ever think it, but you have to imagine that the knee problems that helped hasten his retirement would have been delayed seven or eight years if he’d taken steroids like many of the players during that time. Without steroids and the wild number swings they brought, his 30/30 seasons would have much more meaning, as would his 2 MVPs.
Murph
December 10th, 2012
3:08 pm
Tumbledown, I don’t know that just Teheran or Delgado would be enough to get Olt, not after the return the Royals got for Myers. Maybe.
That being said, it sounds like Teheran is finally putting things together with the new delivery… I doubt the Braves trade him now. Couple that with the fact that they won’t have him competing for the 5th rotation spot with Gilmartin and I’d say chances of Delgado getting dealt are now slim, too.
No, I think the team is what it is… some questions remain around Francisco/Gattis and Teheran/Delgado, but I seriously doubt they add any big-time players before February.
Mike A
December 10th, 2012
3:09 pm
In an old Bill James study, Murphy actually hit better without protection. Protection has by and large been debunked as a myth, by those same ’statistical nerds’ that Chad Murphy unfortunately dismisses. I don’t think Chad’s caustic article is going to help Dale’s case.
Loved Murphy growing up, and though part of me selfishly wants him in the Hall of Fame, I realize that he doesn’t match up with the greats. Sure, he’s comparable to Jim Rice, but Rice is considered a poor selection by most. And we can’t compare players like Murphy to ‘bottom-of-the-barrel’ Hall of Famers, else we start letting every very good player in the Hall. Come on down, JD Drew, Chuck Knoblauch, and Mark Grace!
It’s a shame Murphy’s knees went out, else he’d be a HoFer for sure. But so be it.
Real Talk
December 10th, 2012
3:11 pm
@DOB Dont you think his numbers would be even greater if he had anyone batting behind him in the late 80’s, also how many players who have had their number retired by their team that they play for are not in the HOF, would be interesting to know? GREAT ARTICLE!!
raleighbravefan
December 10th, 2012
3:20 pm
I am sick of people moaning and whining that Wren said he was going after “premium” players this Winter…some even going so far as to call him a liar. It takes 2 to tango…He cannot force free agents to sign with us, and cannot force teams to trade with us. Furthermore, he would be a fool to way overpay. Add that to the fact that there is a dearth of “premium” players, and….well….as I said, I’m sick of hearing it.
wag
December 10th, 2012
3:21 pm
Hey DOB, would the Braves be interested in Brett Gardner? He doesnt k much, has a good obp, is fast, steals bases and has a good arm. The Yanks could use someone like Fransisco.
Tumbledown
December 10th, 2012
3:22 pm
Thanks Murph. I think Wren is generally content with the players he has now, while open to deals at the right price. Those deals probably will not be forthcoming though.
Ralph
December 10th, 2012
3:22 pm
Brian McCann ($12mil) plus BJ Upton ($15Mil) = $27Mil, could’ve had a V8, ops I meant Josh Hamilton.
bill
December 10th, 2012
3:25 pm
If Murph played first for the big Red Machine he would already be in the hall. Perez got in because he played on that underachieving team with all those other HOF’ers.
old man
December 10th, 2012
3:27 pm
PuddyCat:
I hit the link, and the Google thingy was actually pretty funny, but none of the results came up with the actual story/rumor of the offer. I’m dead serious about loving to have some info on it.
Yes, we were snarky. They’ve been snarky to me before too. Just get over it and come out an play.
Brown
December 10th, 2012
3:27 pm
Growing up in Atlanta as a kid, Murphy was my first favorite baseball player. He was the biggest reason (other than location) that I got into Braves baseball, and probably the player most people would think of as the face of the ‘Atlanta’ Braves before Smoltz and Chipper came along.
I think a lot of people in my generation can thank Murph for us becoming Braves fans, and that’s a great legacy, even if the baseball writers don’t help him with a greater legacy.
I know his numbers are borderline for the Hall, but so were several others that got in. DOB and Murphy’s son make great points about the ‘character clause’, and it should swing both ways. Of course I hope he gets in, and really think he deserves at least get a significant amount of votes. He deserves far better than 15%.
Murph
December 10th, 2012
3:27 pm
Brian McCann ($12mil) plus BJ Upton ($15Mil) = $27Mil, could’ve had a V8, ops I meant Josh Hamilton.
With Jordan Schafer in CF and Bethancourt at C…
I kinda think they’ll be better with BMac and Upton.
Tumbledown
December 10th, 2012
3:27 pm
I fully believe that Wren was going after premium players. Upton, arguably (remember, I said arguably), may be considered one or at least premium-lite!
The Braves just do not have the financial resources or the prospects to land those premium players we all covet.
Alex Remington
December 10th, 2012
3:29 pm
There ARE statistics nerds who support Dale Murphy’s candidacy, the late Mac Thomason among them. He wrote a number of sabermetric posts favoring Dale for the Hall, comparing him favorably to Dawson, Rice, and other contemporaries. If you’re looking for stat-based arguments for Murph’s candidacy, you could do worse than to start here: http://www.bravesjournal.com/?p=2171
“The question of Dale Murphy‘s Cooperstown candidacy is primarily a philosophical one. There is no question that his peak years were of a Hall of Fame caliber; no player with a clearly superior peak is not in, and those with roughly equal peaks who are not are not in for readily evident reasons. At the same time, there is no question that his career statistics, other than home runs, are not Hall of Fame numbers.
So we have a player who under the “traditional” peak value/career value dichotomy does very well on one and poorly in the other. If your bias is for peak value players, Murphy should be in. If your bias is for career value, he should not.
…
You see, most Hall of Famers have a career path similar to Dale’s through about 31. It’s just that then they have a phase of being average that lasts a few years and builds up their stats. Murph didn’t do that. Personally, I can’t see keeping a guy out of the Hall of Fame because he didn’t have enough average years.”
Brian B.
December 10th, 2012
3:31 pm
Dave,
While we’re on the topic of Hall of Famers, what are the chances that Pete VanWieren and the late Skip Caray will ever be recognized with the Ford Frick Award, given to broadcasters ??? Every year I see announcers who couldn’t call home win this award, while Pete and Skip were essentially broadcasting baseball games nationally, long before ESPN and the MLB network. Name two other announcers who did more to popularize the game during the 70-80’s. It truly takes talent to make some of those Braves teams watchable, yet Pete and Skip did it year after year. These days every team in baseball has a regional cable network. Pete and Skip did it first, and did it best.
Steve From Dalton
December 10th, 2012
3:33 pm
Two things not mentioned about Dale Murphy: First, he played catcher for the early part of his career. That must have taken its toll. Second, Murphy played in the strike shorten season of 1981. Major league baseball lost almost 40% of the games due to the work stoppage. 1981 was when Dale Murphy was in his prime. One year removed from his back to back MVP years.
Kevin
December 10th, 2012
3:33 pm
Murphy is my favorite baseball player of all time, one of two of my childhood heroes (Herschel is the other). Along with Mike Schmidt, he was one of the two most-feared hitters in the NL throughout the 80’s. Murphy got started a little late and fell off a little early. If he’d had a couple more seasons like 82-87, he’d probably be a no-doubter. It was obvious how he quit in the middle of 1993 with Colorado at age 37 that he just didn’t care about baseball or stats enough. He needed 2 more HR’s for 400. Says a lot that he didn’t hang around just for 2 more HR’s. Playing in Colorado. Pinch hitting for a team that lost a ton of games and used a ton of pitchers. Baseball wasn’t everything for him. And that’s a good thing.
Riles
December 10th, 2012
3:33 pm
Murph is the reason I became a Braves fan, along with 2 of my sons. In the early 80s we got this thing called cable TV with the Superstations. Since TBS was one of them, we live in the Portland Metro area, and Murph was a local boy, it all added up to a now 30 year love affair with the Bravos. Would love to seem him enshrined in Cooperstown.
DAP
December 10th, 2012
3:33 pm
Mike A though part of me selfishly wants him in the Hall of Fame, I realize that he doesn’t match up with the greats.
which greats? Murphy certinly does stack up with guys like Jim Rice and Andre Dawson…both of whom are in the HOF.
what id really like to see from Murph HOF opponents like rosenthal, is why rice and dawson gets in, but murphy doesnt. maybe rosenthal didnt vote for those guys either, i dont know. but id like to know from someone.
Comfortably Dumb
December 10th, 2012
3:34 pm
As much as I want to see them go ahead and make a big trade now, Wren has a point about waiting until mid-season. Getting an impact player in the middle of the dog days always gives a team a shot in the arm. If we can’t get a Bonicaio or someone like that now, let’s see what we can do with what we have until the deadline. We don’t have a perfect lineup, but it’s pretty good. Good enough, coupled with our pitching, to keep us in contention.
ncscoots
December 10th, 2012
3:36 pm
DOB and Murphy’s son make great points about the ‘character clause’, and it should swing both ways.
I’m sorry to say that my first reaction to this line of thinking is, “No, it shouldn’t.” I guess because I expect integrity to be a given, not looked upon as a bonus. A requirement, if you will, not a surprise. I’m fine with Rule 5 keeping players out who fail this requirement, not so fine with it being used to award bonus points.
But I’m one of those guys with a fairly simple HOF criterion: any doubt, he’s out. That tends to rule out a lot of players in my mind, including some who are actually in the Hall, for that matter.
He ain't gonna make it........
December 10th, 2012
3:36 pm
Doesn’t matter how many complain & gripe about it……Murphy ain’t gonna make into the Hall and that is fine by me…….Good guy but being a good guy doesn’t make you a Hall of Fame’er or he would already have made it in………Thanks for trying Dale, but you are out of there.
Ralph
December 10th, 2012
3:36 pm
DOB – Any news on the other players Wren and Co went to see?
Kevin
December 10th, 2012
3:38 pm
One more comment – how many of these voters had to PITCH to Dale Murphy in the 1980’s? I think that’d change their mind. I know HOF’s get a vote, so there are a few voters who actually did pitch to him in his prime. But clearly not enough. When you’re one of a handful of players to dominate a decade, you’re a HOFer.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 10th, 2012
3:39 pm
According to Bill James…. (and as of now, I’m assuming Prado to LF, Juan to 3B)
Prado LF .291/.347/.425/.772, 11 HR, 63 RBI (10 SB, 6 CS)
Upton CF .248/.329/.436/.765, 23 HR, 75 RBI (35 SB, 11 CS)
Heyward RF .272/.360/.483/.843, 26 HR, 82 RBI (20 SB, 8 CS)
Francisco 3B .272/.308/.502/.810, 12 HR, 41 RBI (1 SB, 1 CS; just 235 PAs, note low avg/obp seperation)
Simmons SS .289/.351/.416/.767, 10 HR, 62 RBI (18 SB, 5 CS)
Uggla 2B .238/.341/.439/.780, 28 HR, 87 RBI (3 SB, 2 CS)
Freeman 1B .282/.358/.481/.839, 24 HR, 95 RBI (3 SB, 2 CS)
McCann C .266/.347/.467/.814, 23 HR, 84 RBI (3 SB, 2 CS)
Bench-
Laird- .243/.307/.350/.657, 4 HR, 25 RBI (284 PAs)
Janish- .221/.293/.308/.601, 2 HR, 16 RBI (227 PAs)
Rev- .273/.322/.378/.700 3 HR, 23 RBI (8 SB, 4 CS; 254 PAs)
Mejia- no projections
Johnson- .272/.325/.382/.707 4 HR, 27 RBI (296 PAs)
unbelievable
December 10th, 2012
3:39 pm
Good enough, coupled with our pitching, to keep us in contention.
Thats best case scenario though. Its always easy to say lets add a bat at the deadline. However, more and more teams are in the “hunt” with the new playoff system in place. Prices on trades then will be at a premium. The Braves cant afford to have that mindset, every game is crucial for a ballclub constructed this way. We need an impact player from Game 1.
Steve From Dalton
December 10th, 2012
3:40 pm
Brian B,well said.
Ernie Johnson is overlooked. He had little time to set up the largest radio network in pro sports
Real Talk
December 10th, 2012
3:41 pm
@Dumb I am not a big Bonafacio fan and would rather us go into the season with a Reed Johnson/ Martin Prado/ Juan Francisco situation and do agree maybe waiting might be the best thing to see how the team plays and what we really need and with that much money we should be able to address any situation that comes up!!
unbelievable
December 10th, 2012
3:41 pm
Id love to see that projected line from Simmons, Im skeptical. He’d arguablly be the 2nd or 3rd best SS in all of baseball if he had those offensive numbers. Tulo is about the only person who could outproduce that.
Mike
December 10th, 2012
3:41 pm
If Dale does not get the HOF all I can say it WILL BE A SHAME.
Kevin
December 10th, 2012
3:43 pm
And now a question for Braves fans only, and only if you were old enough to enjoy both of these players: If you could only choose one, would you rather Dale Murphy been a Brave, or Chipper Jones?
I choose Murphy.
Brown
December 10th, 2012
3:44 pm
But ncscoots, it’s written into the voting criteria that the person’s character is part of the equation. There point is that thus far, it’s only been used to be exclusive rather than inclusive, so why isn’t it both ways.
Further, integrity is never a given, as much as we all would like it to be – especially when we’re talking about people that get paid extremely and idolized for playing a sport.
Brown
December 10th, 2012
3:45 pm
*Their point
Murph
December 10th, 2012
3:45 pm
How many AB’s does it take to qualify for RoY? I’m assuming that Simmons won’t be eligible next season, right? Played too much?
ncscoots
December 10th, 2012
3:45 pm
Id love to see that projected line from Simmons
No kidding. All-Star, Gold Glove, NLCS MVP…
OK, so I got a little carried away with that last one. But you’re right, .770 OPS and that leather? Be hard not to call him elite.
Real Talk
December 10th, 2012
3:45 pm
@Kevin If I could only choose one it would be Chipper because when it comes down to it, it is about winning and Chipper gives you the better chance because he was a better player.
Hoosier Aaron
December 10th, 2012
3:47 pm
I do this every year when they talk about how “Murph’s greatness was very short-lived”.
Sandy Koufax had 165 career wins in 12 seasons.
The first 6 years of his career he was 36-40 with an ERA around 4.10.
The last 6 years of his career he was 129-47.
His GREATNESS lasted just SIX YEARS. Some say the greatest lefty of all time.
Braves fans might disagree but we will not say that Koufax wasn’t great.
Am I saying Koufax does not deserve to be in Cooperstown?
No!
I am saying that by today’s voting standards…he would not get in.
Murph was the best all-around player for the decade of the 80’s…Chad’s numbers prove it.
A.P.
December 10th, 2012
3:47 pm
Just once I want a Brave to hit 100 RBI’s. I think Heyward or Freeman will get it this year. I like Freeman’s projections, but I think Bill James under projected Heyward
Comfortably Dumb
December 10th, 2012
3:47 pm
DOB
Why are so many people, including the Braves, thinking Bourn’s speed will just disappear? Ichiro stole like 40 bases in his age 38 season if I’m not mistaken.
tony austin
December 10th, 2012
3:47 pm
I remember the old TBS Commercial with Murphy at bat, “Curve ball, hit to deeeeep left field, how do like it, homerun murph! Stand and cheer for our great nation, supersports on the Superstation.”
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 10th, 2012
3:49 pm
on the pitching side…
Medlen- 14-7 (190 IP, 30 starts) 2.94 ERA
Minor- 11-10 (189 IP, 30 starts) 3.76 ERA
Hudson- 12-9 (193 IP, 29 starts) 3.36 ERA
Maholm- 10-12 (198 IP, 31 starts) 4.00 ERA
Delgado- 7-9 (137 IP, 25 starts) 4.20 ERA
Teheran- 7-9 (149 IP, 25 starts) 4.23 ERA
Kimbrel- 65 IP, 39 Saves, 1.38 ERA
EOF- 57 IP, 3.00 ERA
Venters- 63 IP, 3.57 ERA
Walden- 36 IP, 3.75 ERA
Avilan- 58 IP, 4.03 ERA
CMart- 71 IP, 3.30 ERA
Gearrin- 34 IP, 3.44 ERA
Efrim
December 10th, 2012
3:49 pm
Oh boy. Money to spend during the trade deadline? They have rouhgly $77 million in 14 players, and probably around $83 million as the projected payroll for 2013. Are they really going to trade for a player making $18-20 million or two players making that amount? I mean, really? I doubt it. I hope they can at least acquire for the full season of 2013 which provides a lot more value than 50-60 games or whatever.
Brown
December 10th, 2012
3:49 pm
Is it Murphy vs. Chipper, or Murphy vs. Chipper + backup 3B that will play the other 33% of the games?
PuddyCat
December 10th, 2012
3:50 pm
Lmao this is put on a tee
This app is way too much fun. Enjoy it
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=I‘m%20stupid%20please%20help%20me%20.%20How%20many%20AB%E2%80%99s%20does%20it%20take%20to%20qualify%20for%20RoY?%20I%E2%80%99m%20assuming%20that%20Simmons%20won%E2%80%99t%20be%20eligible%20next%20season,%20right?%20Played%20too%20much?%20
ncscoots
December 10th, 2012
3:50 pm
Further, integrity is never a given, as much as we all would like it to be – especially when we’re talking about people that get paid extremely and idolized for playing a sport.
If integrity is not a given, not a requirement, then why exclude players who lack it? That would seem to punish players for weakness in an area in which they are not expected to be strong. Penalizing Ozzie Smith for his HR total, for example.
1776
December 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
Murph should have been in the HoF years ago. He was a better player than mugs like Dawson.
Brian B.
December 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
Steve from Dalton -
Thanks … I should never have forgotten “The Old Right-Hander” Ernie Johnson. Don Sutton often talks about how he came down from Milwaukee a year before the Braves, and drove all over the southeast, signing up little 5 watt radio stations for the Braves radio network. Talk about service to the game of baseball.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
Id love to see that projected line from Simmons, Im skeptical.
I’d love to see that as well, but still quite skeptical… only played 49 games, and supposedly his bat was a question. Can’t really see him posting about the same line he did in parts of last year. But if he does, oh boy!
How many AB’s does it take to qualify for RoY? I’m assuming that Simmons won’t be eligible next season, right? Played too much?
123? or 132… Simmons got 182 last season, he’s out of contention this year. Unfortunate.
Lew
December 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
I saw them both play, Hank, too and a bunch more before they ever moved to Atlanta. I’m glad all of them – Chipper, Murph, Niekro, Hank, Spahn, Mathews (Eddie and Sarge), Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and a lot more – wore the Tomahawk on their unis.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 10th, 2012
3:53 pm
I’d love to see those pitching lines from Huddy and Medlen though… skeptical there as well, but that’d be real nice.
Mike A
December 10th, 2012
3:55 pm
As I noted, Murphy matches up to Rice, but Rice is arguably the worst BBWAA elected Hall of Famer of the post-1950 crowd. The baseball writers can, frankly, be pretty clueless at times. There are a ton of players that deserved to go in before Rice. And Dale is closer to the bottom of those players than the top. I don’t think there’s any question players like Trammell and Raines deserve to go in before Dale.
Murphy does not match up well to Dawson. Dawson is at 60.6 bWAR, Murphy 42.6 (roughly the same as the great JD Drew). Granted, bWAR dings Murph defensively, which I don’t think is entirely fair. I felt Murphy was close to average defensively, but even if you give Murphy credit for good defense, he still falls short of Dawson and the Hall statistically.
The best arguments for Murphy are on peak performance and character. Peak performance you can make a reasonable, though flawed, argument. But character…let’s just say Kirby Puckett got in the Hall in part due to his high character, which turned out to be a sham. So I’m not sure voting players in based on character is a good idea (not that I think Murphy will turn out evil like Puckett – by all accounts Murphy is a great guy – but goes to show you never know).
A.P.
December 10th, 2012
3:57 pm
I know I am one of the few, but i genuinely believe Meds wins 20. He is such a competitor and keeps us in games.
Lew
December 10th, 2012
3:57 pm
Simmons hit .299, .352, .397, .749 in the minors. Then he came up and hit .289, .335, .416, .751 in the majors.
My question is why was there a question about his offewnsive abilities? He makes contact, doesn’t strike out and doesn’t walk. Seems to me he hitting about like we could have expected, but with a touch more power. I’d expect more of about the same from him.
Lew
December 10th, 2012
3:57 pm
Simmons hit .299, .352, .397, .749 in the minors. Then he came up and hit .289, .335, .416, .751 in the majors.
My question is why was there a question about his offewnsive abilities? He makes contact, doesn’t strike out and doesn’t walk. Seems to me he hitting about like we could have expected, but with a touch more power. I’d expect more of about the same from him.
Finchdawg
December 10th, 2012
3:57 pm
I think DOB just won the contest for the longest single sports blog in AJC history.
Lew
December 10th, 2012
3:58 pm
And the insane blog strikes yet a again. It was somewhat relevant, but hardly worth two postings.
Efrim
December 10th, 2012
3:58 pm
Simmons SS .289/.351/.416/.767, 10 HR, 62 RBI (18 SB, 5 CS)
He does this and we will be having a discussion about him being the MVP of the league in 2013. At least, the folks over at Fangraphs, Keith Law and every other supporter of Wins Above Replacement will be putting him #1 in the National League. Hands down. A .767 and best defender we’ve seen in the last decade at the SS position? 8 win player. Boo-yah.
Efrim
December 10th, 2012
4:00 pm
Law said he’s an All-Star type, so Keith is again on the Braves side.
Lew
December 10th, 2012
4:02 pm
bWAR? Two ways of figuring WAR weren’t enough? And here we thought it was the definitive new stat. Last week.
ncscoots
December 10th, 2012
4:02 pm
The baseball writers can, frankly, be pretty clueless at times.
Uh-oh. Clueless as opposed to what other segment of the baseball industry?
Murphy does not match up well to Dawson. Dawson is at 60.6 bWAR, Murphy 42.6
HOF decisions should require more than sorting a column.
George P. Burdell
December 10th, 2012
4:04 pm
Great article and I could not agree more with your points. I think when Murpy retired, he was 27th on the all-time HR list. After the steroid era, he barely stays in the top 60. I think he will be the only person to be the HR leader in a decade not elected to the hall of fame. All that being said, his character and integrity should be more than enough to put him in and if he doesn’t get in, its more of a probelm with the Hall than it ever will be for him. It says a lot about what has become of pro baseball, and really pro sports in general.
ncscoots
December 10th, 2012
4:04 pm
8 win player. Boo-yah.
Geez, yes, you’re right, that would put him there, wouldn’t it? Assuming he doesn’t start forgetting to take his glove to the field.
nolie
December 10th, 2012
4:04 pm
He belongs in the Hall, plain and simple. For his integrity if nothing else. They don’t make him like that anymore.
maybe then we could get Mother Thersa elected too, I hear she played a bit of ball as a kid……
Brown
December 10th, 2012
4:05 pm
The ‘integrity, sportsmanship, and character’ aspect is hard to measure on the good side. Obviously it has to be extremely bad/good character to make it a determining factor for a Hall vote, and I think it’s easier to check the box for bad character (cheating, steroids, etc.) that it is for high integrity. But it should still be considered, and possibly get someone like Murphy in the Hall if they are right on the bubble with their stats, if the opposite can knock someone out who is a sure-fire Hall of Famer like Rose, Bonds, Clemens.
ncscoots
December 10th, 2012
4:06 pm
bWAR? Two ways of figuring WAR weren’t enough?
That’s baseball-reference WAR, Lew. fWAR for Fangraphs WAR. No new versions today.
nolie
December 10th, 2012
4:07 pm
He belongs in the Hall, plain and simple. For his integrity if nothing else. They don’t make him like that anymore.
maybe then we could get Mother Thersa elected too, I hear she played a bit of ball as a kid……
and she is almost as nice as Dale
PDOG
December 10th, 2012
4:07 pm
DOB like the idea of getting Bonaficio. How about the Terd and Malhom for him? I like the idea of both Tehran and Delgado being the 4th and 5th starters this year.
Efrim
December 10th, 2012
4:08 pm
HOF decisions should require more than sorting a column.
Well said.
TheCedartownConvention
December 10th, 2012
4:08 pm
Great article… We made a website to support Dale’s case for the HOF please check it out and share it, there’s a link at the bottom for a petition created by Dale’s son Taylor… please go there and sign the petition to get Dale into the HOF. http://www.thecedartownconvention.com/murphhof.html
Efrim
December 10th, 2012
4:08 pm
Tom (Atlanta): I’m curious whether you feel the pace at which Bethancourt is being pushed through the system will ultimately hurt or help him? To avoid being relegated to a defense-first backup catcher, it would seem that he’d really benefit offensively from repeating a level.
Bill Ballew: The Braves have tried not to push him but his offense has definitely lagged behind his defense. When motivated, his defense is outstanding, and his catch-and-throw skills compare favorably to any other receiver in the minor leagues. Scouts believe he has some raw power, but that has been evident only occasionally to this point in his career. Bethancourt doesn’t need to be a .300 hitter but he must be able to handle the bat reasonably well in order to succeed in the big leagues.
Groundhogday
December 10th, 2012
4:08 pm
Effective argument for Murph….I hope it happens for him.
FWIW, If i ever get locked up, I’m hiring DOB and Chad Murphy as my defense lawyers.