But you just said that’s what we brought him into do and he hit 36 2 years ago. I truly believe last year was a fluke. He will rebound. I get what you are saying about him not performing up to his contract, and it seems BJ is another overpriced .250 hitter, I just think we were hoping for moves that weren’t there. We can’t sign max players to 20-30 mil contracts when our payroll is 95 mil. I also stand by the Uggla trade, he might have not played in front of anyone but he averaged 32 HR’s his first 6 years. He never had under 88 RBI’s in a bad offense and his average was much higher than with us.
I have to agree on Uggla and his stats prior to ATL. He was one of the few reliable thumpers on a crappy team playing for nothing in front of no one. You want to win a WS you get proven winners not one dimensional players.
In ATL he knew they brought in him to carry a portion of the offense and to get them to the post season. He folded like a deck chair in that role in year one and again in year two albeit with walks.
He was not brought in to walk and a walk is not as good as a hit from what is suppose to be your prime RBI guy.
Solo shots have been his trade mark and swinging for 800 ft HRs is his new approach.
It was an under researched trade and a knee jerk reaction to having one of the lowest HR totals in the league (solved for the wrong X). They needed a situational hitter with great hitting stats not a one trick pony.
The extension without watching how he would handle higher expectations was a mistake as well.
The latter even more painful bc under researched (decided over a BBQ) mgr hire “Fredi” assured Wren that Uggla could handle anything etc… Fredi loves Uggla and cannot see past the fact he was a product of a zero pressure environment.
The trade for one year of Uggla would have been better than trading Infante and then extending this mess for 4 years.
Uggla’s 12mm in Wren’s hip pocket today (leaving him ~21mm after BJ Upton) and Prado at 2B would have made this past week a bit different in terms of its outcome/options. Heck Infante in ATL over Uggla these past two seasons could have very well meant a division title at the least.
Uggla thus far is a worse move than Lowe. If he face plants again out of the gate, which he should w/o Chipper here to calm him and the rest of the line up down he will be released in a year just like Jason Bay.
In fact he is ATL Jason Bay move. Not well thought out. over paid and a financial write off in the end.
I hope not but Uggla is looking more like Bay as investment all the time.
I said that’s what Frank Wren foolishly brought him in to do. Same as Upton. “We need a RH power bat.” That’s the kind of statements we get from Wren, then we also get interviews where he wants to see the team toughen up its approach at the plate while he continues to stockpile players incapapble of this very thing. Uggla’s contract has reached albatross status and it hasn’t just been since this past season. Let’s call a spade a spade, with the exception of a little over a month, he’s been absolutely horrible since coming here and we’re stuck with him for 3 MORE YEARS. Upton may not play out QUITE so badly, but I can honestly say I do not look for him to improve on anythinbg with us that he didn’t improve on in his prior years of MLB service. Somebody put it well right after the signing, “you don’t pay somebody 15 million a year hoping he’ll turn around.”…
I do agree that we paid for potential, which scares me when hes been in the league for 8 years. But with Victo and Napoli getting 13 mil, does Uptons 30/30 not earn 15? Say we passed on Upton and wouldn’t sign Hamilton, what would you have done. I truly believe we offered Delgado for Span and they chose that Nats prospect, so with them out of play, would you have given Bourn who K’s as much as Upton and disappeared for half the year last year more money and an additional year? Would you sell the farm in a vast overpay for Fowler or Revere? Upton was not ideal, I get that, but the options weren’t as good as everyone claims.
FanSince80s –
that’s really cool that you could tell with such certainty that Uggla was going to have a couple of bad seasons. You are so much smarter, obviously, than the Braves’ decision-makers.
With all that prescient knowledge, can you tell which of the remaining available players they should pursue, and how they’ll do the next couple of seasons? And which of our players is going to fade, so we know which ones to trade.
On behalf of FW and the whole crew, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Uggla’s last year was bad all around except for the OBP. But in the first year he hit a career high 36 HRs and a solid 82 RBIs. I’m sure they expected more RBIs but that’s still not bad at all.
About 60% of his HRs have been solo shots, and league average last year was 57%.
The Jason Bay comparison is not very fair. Bay has had 26 HRs and 124 RBIs in 3 years with the Mets. Uggla had 10 more HRs just in the first year with the Braves, and 36 more RBIs in 2 years.
Nashville dream dashed by no deal for offense. But FW did Beef Up the Major League Scouts! Is that for them to go watch all of the other teams talent that he will NOT trade for?
I like Schafer and Reed Johnson and hope Francisco continues to show good promise. The real problem is Uggla at 2B. Solve that with a package including McCann and/or Hudson and the future could be both good and affordable. Uggla is an anchor and a major distraction for the fans. McCann’s future lies in the AL, why not deal with it?
McCann will be gone after this year, which is fine. Why sell Uggla after by far the worst year of his career. He’s not 40 and washed up, I guarantee he will rebound and hit close to 30 and 80-95 RBI’s just like every year before last years struggles. People have bad years (See Heyward’s sophomore year). I’m not a huge Uggla fan but to say he is worthless is ignorant. He’s a 30 HR guy at 2nd and he gets on base. If he gets back to his career average of .253 31HR’s and 91 RBI’s we should be very happy.
oh good grief, I just meant smart financial decisions with the Beane comment. Bean’s payroll means ANY WS victory will be a huge cinderalla story if it ever happens. We have a bigger payroll and can afford bigger salaries but that doesn’t justify stupid moves just because we have it.
IF we were going to have to overpay for anyone period this off-season per the status of the FA market, Hamilton should have been the only real consideration here, with Bourn being an only slight consideration as option 2 (and that only if he came at a still seme-reasonable price tag). Anyone else on the market was not worth the risk and/or money. ESPECIALLY BJ Upton.
I would rather a couple basic trades be made (Span…..crickets chirping……) and some internal promotions be made than yet another over-paid, under-achieving singing be made.
Luman, here you go, woulda coulda shoulda dumped McCann, he won’t rebound to a high level, his shoulder is too shot to hell unless he DH’s the majority of the time…
In year one he was an automatic out apart from 35-38 games in the middle of the summer. The bulk of his offensive production (saving his HR trend stats in particular) occurred during that stretch. He faded after that as well and assisted with the Sept collapse.
This past year walks were the only reason he was not benched for more than a few weeks late in the season. He stunk all year as an RBI guy and FG protected him until there was no where to hide and he had to bench him.
Uggla is flat out terrible as a situational hitter and mediocre as a RBI guy.
He is the same mold as Bay to ATL in terms of what they needed from him versus what he has given them. The ROI is upside down.
Unfortunately HRs don’t mean winning. That is how Uggla came here in the first place – people getting jazzed over the HRs. But 82 RBIs is pedestrian (rookies can give you that for a lot less – see FF).
HRs with no one on base or in lost cause games – you see this when you watch him every day (even when he was a Marlin) are his trademark.
Teams that win or go to the WS (caveat: “usually”) have their sluggers hitting 120+ RBIs OR have amazing situation hitting skills (Uggla does neither).
Uggla has only approached 100 once in his career. Now in his 30s don’t expect a great renaissance to his style or approach. Bulky shorter guys (esp short arms) who over compensate for lack of size with mass don’t last long once they hit 30. Uggla has likely see his best days with the Marlins.
He is terrible situational hitter, cannot make adjustments and keeps swing violently until he hits something.
Again lets hope he was one dead cat bounce year left in him so they can trade him in a year – making it easier to extend Prado and move him back to 2B.
That is all I ask. Play well enough to get out of town.
It looks to me that the Braves and Blue Jays would match up perfect for a trade. The Jays have 5 outfielders if you count the Melk man and it seems they could use a first baseman. How about the Terd and Meja with a lower level pitching prospect for Bonaficio or Davies?
I’d agree that Uggla hasn’t brought the ROI they thought they were getting. But he’s still performed better than Bay, and his contract is significantly less.
Rick C, I’ve already pointed out the success rate for professionaly baseball players returning from major shoulder surgery (across the board, not skewed by pitchers) so why does it matter what his Dr, thinks? They all will give glowing reports of their surgery and give high expectations for a successful recovery-that’s what they do. What I care more about is that something like 19% of all MLB players who undergo that surgery return to form and the majority of those are outfielders…
If we don’t sign Upton, then miss out on Span, we would then be left with vastly overpaying in a trade or having an irate fan base over promoting internal options for cf and left. Bourn will demand too much.
And the reason we missed out on Span is because you think whatever the Braves offered for him, they should have offered more – even though you have no idea what they offered for him.
Do I have that right>
If we could free up some cash by trading maholm or eof how sweet would it be to get Bourn on a one year deal if it comes to that for him. 1 year at 15 then go back out on the market next year.
Bourn
prado
heyward
uggla
freeman
upton
mac
simmons
One of if not best lineup in the nl if mac and uggla come back close to their old selves.
Absolutely not. I was not in the give a lot to give Span group. I would have given Delgado, which I assume we offered, but Min liked the Nationals prospect better.
Absolutely not. I was not in the give a lot to get Span group. I would have given Delgado, which I assume we offered, but Min liked the Nationals prospect better.
[...] the team to a .565 winning percentage in his first two seasons. Fredi became an e more… Braves leave Nashville with no LF, but not worried (UPDATED) – blogs.ajc.com 12/06/2012 NASHVILLE – Even if the season were to begin Friday, manager [...]
I have a hard time thinking the Twins would have turned down Delgado, but who knows – maybe they see more upside the prospect they did get.
I think if the Braves sit tight for a while, they can get solid one-year rental without giving up any of our top prospects … then try again next year for a longer-term solution.
Couldn’t agree more. I have not seen a single deal outside of potentially Span that intrigued me, and like I said that could have just been them being higher on the Nats prospect. I have seen crazy overpay for signings and trades. I like Wren’s patience and think something will come before the season. If not, we have internal options that can produce similiar to some of these options that are asking for a crazy return in prospects.
I have no idea what KC is asking for, but Alex Gordon seems like the best fit out of all the players the Braves have been linked to. The Royals have been our trade buddies in the past, so hopefully they can figure something out that doesn’t involve Simmons. The Royals could certainly use some pitching help.
Just wanted to point out it isn’t mathematically possible to have 18 pinch hits in one season and also have .413 pinch hitting average.
BUT – Glad to have Reed back. Clutch hitter and he seemed fit in very well with the club house. Let’s get us one more good right handed stick and lay the smack down on the NL.
upton and schafer aren’t the answer to the braves anemic offense. offensively, the braves have gone backwards. once again it is apparent that wren is in over his head. he should have already dumped uggla, who is the single biggest drag on the offense.
Kinda hard to dump a guy when his value is at its lowest and his salary is at its highest.
And exactly how has Wren shown he’s over his head? One the one hand, you claim he makes knee-jerk signings/trades, on the other you complain that he has not acted fast enough for your tastes.
Can’t have it both ways.
Also, KC is pretty set at Shortstop, so it would seem less likely Simmons would be involved in a trade for Gordon. — Brown
Particularly since Simmons isn’t being traded, period. Not for Justin Upton, not for Alex Gordon, not traded period.
That is why Wren better pray Simmons is the next Jeter or Arod in his prime. Shortstops outside of them and or say an Ozzie Smith don’t carry teams and win rings for said teams.
OFers and corner INFers put teams on their backs and win the whole enchilada. SS and 2B are defensive positives where you hope to get serviceable offense.
Simmons showing some hitting skills in AAA and a whopping 39 games in the ML is what Wren is basing this position on re: trades.
We know what Justin Upton can do (2010, 2011) we hope Simmons is at least if not a whole lot more that what we saw in a few number of ABs.
So no one would trade Simmons for Kemp, Trout, Harper. Is he better than Furcal by orders of magnitude bc we hade Furcal in his prime and won how many rings?
Since nothing is happening right now I am going to propose a trade or two just for fun. And yes, I know they are inane and ridiculous ahead of time, but oh well.
Delgado, Teheran, and Uggla to KC for Myer and Moustakas. Rumor is that the Royals want to win now and they are just not sure about Myer. They know they need pitching. This would allow the Braves to put Myer in LF, Mouse at 3B and move Pradot to 2nd. We could even pay some of Uggla’s salary and still save a ton. That saving plus other money we have could possibly go to a FA pitcher.
We would not go after Greinke, but we could possibly make a run at a one or two year deal for Dempster or maybe even go for multi-year on Lohse, Sanchez or Jackson.
I know most people think I am crazy to think about moving Teheran and Delgado both, but I have seen enough of Teheran to think he is a Jurrgens clone with possibly less ability. Delgado has looked very good so far. Both of these guys move right into the KC rotation. We would have to give them up to have any chance of moving Uggla’s contract and still getting excellent value in return. This also gives us more finanacial flexibility since Mouse and Myer will still be cheap for a few years.
im extremely happy wren didn’t give up minor or simmons. those are 2 building blocks (along with medlen, heyward, freeman, venters, kimbral, and prado) that will be the foundation for the braves for a long time( IF they hurry up and sign them all to long contracts)
justin upton is not a good fit for the braves. has way too much baggage and attitude to put him next to his brother, who has the same baggage and attitude. (btw the BJ signing was dumb, i would rather have had bourn back at the same price)
the big problem with this team is that we have plenty of low avg high SO “power guys”. this does not win championships. it looks great in the regular season, but flops in the postseason.
cunningham and gattis are longterm answers, but cunningham isnt ready yet. give him another season at AA and we’ll see how he does for a full season. also, don’t forget about joey terdoslavich. can’t field, but has a + major league bat.
if they can get him without overpaying, id say the braves should go after cory hart. shouldnt be too hard, the brew crew is desperate for pitching. teheran/delgado +mejia or another older, blocked prospect (NOT ahmed or gattis) should be enough to land him
Wendall … I been talking up Schafer here a ton and I agree with you that very few are giving him the benefit of the doubt.
In 893 PA’s (about 1.3 years), he has 51 steals and plays stellar defense (personally I would leave him in CF and move Upton to LF but that might offend Upton. Nagging injuries have ruined every little hot streak he gets into. His top end is enormous compared to Constanza and I really think he could get the job done.
The problem is, the Braves think more of Francisco than they do of Schafer and if they don’t make any other moves they would go into the season with Prado in left and Francisco getting most of the 3b starts. Against lefties I would assume Prado would move in to third and Johnson would get the nod in LF.
I like Francisco, but I would rather we have a true leadoff type hitter in the game and Schafer fits that bill. Of course, if we could find a way to move Uggla then Prado has his home and we can start both Schafer and Francisco and see what happens. Quite frankly I am tired of old retreads starting in front of our rookies. When we let guys like Simmons, Freeman, Heyward and McCann actually play they end up doing well. That is why KC and Washington have good young players … they let them play and learn on the job instead of putting some geriatric vet out there.
I’m glad we didn’t get Retard Span or Paul Revere. They both suck donkey dong. Let Wren work his magic and get a guy like Hart for us. We’ll get there, just have to be patient.
ok Rick C, how ’bout the medical report stating that the tear in McCann’s labrum wound up worse than even the tests inidicated once they went in and medical report after medical report after medical report stating that if there is much of a tear in the labrum at all chance for successful recovery to a “normal range of function” is slim to none….hmmmm? He plays catcher Rick C, not DH in the AL, he plays catcher. McCann will forever be one hard bump at the plate away from the DL from this point on, and that’s even IF he rehabs his shoulder well enough to throw well enough to play everyday or something like that in the first place…
You a doctor Bravesfan? I would assume the Braves FO would do just a little bit of research before they picked up a 13 mil option. I know you are of the Braves FO and Wren are morons group, but I assure you they have more concrete facts regarding the situation than some report you read on the internet
Matt Kemp had surgery several weeks ago to repair a torn labrum. If you had to bet on he or McCann to return to form post-surgery, which would it be? My money would be on Kemp, the fitness nut, over dough-boy McCann…
Again, BravesFan you’re just speculating. You aren’t his doctor and haven’t seen his medical reports. You don’t know all the facts, so stop acting like you do.
Perennial: the Braves are paying McCann 12 million of our 95 mil payroll in the HOPES he’s not finished. Once again, why do I need to be a doctor to read plenty of sports medicine studies that tout this surgery as one of the tops to end a career on?
Schafer is a career .221 hitter who K’s every third at bat and this is some of the fans answer to leadoff hitter….interesting!!!!…and Bravesfan on Mccann he will have a huge bounce back season and you will be on his bandwagon about July so it doesnt matter what you think
According to Wren, there was very little discussion made on McCann, he was considered a huge part of the organization and apparently his physical status was of little or no concern, just paraphrasing his brief comments to the press of course…
and again, Rick C, just because the surgeon didn’t come and say, “it was a hack-job, I turned the guy’s shoulder into hamburger,” is no reason to be optimistic about a surgery that has been overwhelmingly unsuccessful…
Latest Rumor running in the desert is Delgado, Mejia, and Ahmed for Justin Upton, but only if the Cabrera for Upton deal falls through with the Indians!!
I’ll grant you it wasn’t smart to resign him, but it was a lose lose scenario for Wren. McCann was kind of our face of the franchise. Plus, with the current options not being all that great, or kind of old FA’s, McCann does still have a lot of upside IF he comes back healthy. Uggla is another hole in the lineup, but we’re stuck with him too financially as there was no way we could have moved him without eating a big loss in cash. I like Gattis to replace Mac though, so I think we’ll be ok. The biggest focus should be on LF right now and trying to get one of (Hart, Upton, Fowler, Ludwick Von Beethoven, Willingham, or the Boner Afficionado). Catcher is a done deal we have to move on.
read the scouting reports, Gattis isn’t viewed as a ML level catcher defensively, he’s going to be in LF for the Braves, if at all. C is going to be a BIG issue this coming season…
Delgado ain’t all that!!!! He is at best a journeyman pitcher who has never cracked the major league team to stay there…..up down, up down, up down…..real talent comes up and shines and stays…..in my book he is till bush league.
Delgado ain’t all that!!!! He is at best a journeyman pitcher who has never cracked the major league team to stay there…..up down, up down, up down…..real talent comes up and shines and stays…..in my book he is till bush league.
It’s not Delgado’s fault he has been jerked around, you dumbass. And what are you talking about real talent shines and stays? Ever heard of John Smoltz? Maddux? Roy Halladay?
Go find a new hobby. You clearly don’t know anything about baseball.
It’s not Delgado’s fault he has been jerked around, you dumbass. And what are you talking about real talent shines and stays? Ever heard of John Smoltz? Maddux? Roy Halladay?
Go find a new hobby. You clearly don’t know anything about baseball.
@Dumb so you saying Delgado is a HOF’er because to compare his situation to those three is like comparing apples and oranges, but with that said Delgado can be a very solid #2 or #3 guy as he continues to grow in experience!!
@Dumb now that is funny so you think that if you post before 5 you have no job…too funny…you dont realize what it really is like up here in the penthouse do you!!
I won’t even humor you with a reply. You are a moron, clearly.
If I’ve learned one thing from this site, it’s there are A LOT of stupid people you have to weed through to find the few fans who actually have a clue. Go play in the dirt, Real Talk. And consider a less pathetic name while you’re at it.
Penthouse. Ha.
I really like seaing homeruns. I think that Wren is doing really good job in his job of GM. He should keep doing what he is doing bc he is doing good job. We are going to win everything and every game on the scedule this year! GO BRAVES!
December 6th, 2012
1:28 pm
DOB- Any potential interest in A. Soriano? I heard the Cubs would pick up a good portion of his salary, and wouldn’t cost much in prospects. Potentially 30 bombs for around 9 mil (Assuming the Cubs eat half
443 comments Add your comment
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2012
11:44 am
Reed Johnson gets $1.6M salary in ‘13, w/ club option at same sal in ‘14 and $150K buyout.
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
11:47 am
But you just said that’s what we brought him into do and he hit 36 2 years ago. I truly believe last year was a fluke. He will rebound. I get what you are saying about him not performing up to his contract, and it seems BJ is another overpriced .250 hitter, I just think we were hoping for moves that weren’t there. We can’t sign max players to 20-30 mil contracts when our payroll is 95 mil. I also stand by the Uggla trade, he might have not played in front of anyone but he averaged 32 HR’s his first 6 years. He never had under 88 RBI’s in a bad offense and his average was much higher than with us.
Klaus
December 7th, 2012
11:50 am
I have to agree on Uggla and his stats prior to ATL. He was one of the few reliable thumpers on a crappy team playing for nothing in front of no one. You want to win a WS you get proven winners not one dimensional players.
In ATL he knew they brought in him to carry a portion of the offense and to get them to the post season. He folded like a deck chair in that role in year one and again in year two albeit with walks.
He was not brought in to walk and a walk is not as good as a hit from what is suppose to be your prime RBI guy.
Solo shots have been his trade mark and swinging for 800 ft HRs is his new approach.
It was an under researched trade and a knee jerk reaction to having one of the lowest HR totals in the league (solved for the wrong X). They needed a situational hitter with great hitting stats not a one trick pony.
The extension without watching how he would handle higher expectations was a mistake as well.
The latter even more painful bc under researched (decided over a BBQ) mgr hire “Fredi” assured Wren that Uggla could handle anything etc… Fredi loves Uggla and cannot see past the fact he was a product of a zero pressure environment.
The trade for one year of Uggla would have been better than trading Infante and then extending this mess for 4 years.
Uggla’s 12mm in Wren’s hip pocket today (leaving him ~21mm after BJ Upton) and Prado at 2B would have made this past week a bit different in terms of its outcome/options. Heck Infante in ATL over Uggla these past two seasons could have very well meant a division title at the least.
Uggla thus far is a worse move than Lowe. If he face plants again out of the gate, which he should w/o Chipper here to calm him and the rest of the line up down he will be released in a year just like Jason Bay.
In fact he is ATL Jason Bay move. Not well thought out. over paid and a financial write off in the end.
I hope not but Uggla is looking more like Bay as investment all the time.
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
11:55 am
I said that’s what Frank Wren foolishly brought him in to do. Same as Upton. “We need a RH power bat.” That’s the kind of statements we get from Wren, then we also get interviews where he wants to see the team toughen up its approach at the plate while he continues to stockpile players incapapble of this very thing. Uggla’s contract has reached albatross status and it hasn’t just been since this past season. Let’s call a spade a spade, with the exception of a little over a month, he’s been absolutely horrible since coming here and we’re stuck with him for 3 MORE YEARS. Upton may not play out QUITE so badly, but I can honestly say I do not look for him to improve on anythinbg with us that he didn’t improve on in his prior years of MLB service. Somebody put it well right after the signing, “you don’t pay somebody 15 million a year hoping he’ll turn around.”…
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
11:56 am
He hits 36 bombs his first year in Atlanta. Isn’t that what we brought him in to do?
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
12:00 pm
I do agree that we paid for potential, which scares me when hes been in the league for 8 years. But with Victo and Napoli getting 13 mil, does Uptons 30/30 not earn 15? Say we passed on Upton and wouldn’t sign Hamilton, what would you have done. I truly believe we offered Delgado for Span and they chose that Nats prospect, so with them out of play, would you have given Bourn who K’s as much as Upton and disappeared for half the year last year more money and an additional year? Would you sell the farm in a vast overpay for Fowler or Revere? Upton was not ideal, I get that, but the options weren’t as good as everyone claims.
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
12:02 pm
FanSince80s –
that’s really cool that you could tell with such certainty that Uggla was going to have a couple of bad seasons. You are so much smarter, obviously, than the Braves’ decision-makers.
With all that prescient knowledge, can you tell which of the remaining available players they should pursue, and how they’ll do the next couple of seasons? And which of our players is going to fade, so we know which ones to trade.
On behalf of FW and the whole crew, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
12:02 pm
once again man, that’s what Frank Wren foolishly thought we needed and brought him in to do. Would Billy Beane have done that? Uhhhhhhhhhhhh…
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
12:03 pm
Uggla’s last year was bad all around except for the OBP. But in the first year he hit a career high 36 HRs and a solid 82 RBIs. I’m sure they expected more RBIs but that’s still not bad at all.
About 60% of his HRs have been solo shots, and league average last year was 57%.
The Jason Bay comparison is not very fair. Bay has had 26 HRs and 124 RBIs in 3 years with the Mets. Uggla had 10 more HRs just in the first year with the Braves, and 36 more RBIs in 2 years.
Klaus
December 7th, 2012
12:05 pm
Typo 2014. Mac will get a qualifying offer and be gone. Hudson will be too old and ATL has a dearth of young pitching coming up.
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
12:07 pm
Um, I don’t think you mean “dearth”
Bud
December 7th, 2012
12:07 pm
Perhaps the Braves should consider the Rangers’ Michael Young for third and keep Prado in left.
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
12:07 pm
BravesFanSince80s, you say HRs don’t win World Series rings, but how many rings has Beane won?
Robert ( chi-town)
December 7th, 2012
12:09 pm
Nashville dream dashed by no deal for offense. But FW did Beef Up the Major League Scouts! Is that for them to go watch all of the other teams talent that he will NOT trade for?
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
12:09 pm
Surfeit, perhaps
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
12:09 pm
Young is owed $16 MM next year. Don’t have enough room for that.
Mike McDonald
December 7th, 2012
12:09 pm
I like Schafer and Reed Johnson and hope Francisco continues to show good promise. The real problem is Uggla at 2B. Solve that with a package including McCann and/or Hudson and the future could be both good and affordable. Uggla is an anchor and a major distraction for the fans. McCann’s future lies in the AL, why not deal with it?
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
12:18 pm
McCann will be gone after this year, which is fine. Why sell Uggla after by far the worst year of his career. He’s not 40 and washed up, I guarantee he will rebound and hit close to 30 and 80-95 RBI’s just like every year before last years struggles. People have bad years (See Heyward’s sophomore year). I’m not a huge Uggla fan but to say he is worthless is ignorant. He’s a 30 HR guy at 2nd and he gets on base. If he gets back to his career average of .253 31HR’s and 91 RBI’s we should be very happy.
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
12:18 pm
oh good grief, I just meant smart financial decisions with the Beane comment. Bean’s payroll means ANY WS victory will be a huge cinderalla story if it ever happens. We have a bigger payroll and can afford bigger salaries but that doesn’t justify stupid moves just because we have it.
IF we were going to have to overpay for anyone period this off-season per the status of the FA market, Hamilton should have been the only real consideration here, with Bourn being an only slight consideration as option 2 (and that only if he came at a still seme-reasonable price tag). Anyone else on the market was not worth the risk and/or money. ESPECIALLY BJ Upton.
I would rather a couple basic trades be made (Span…..crickets chirping……) and some internal promotions be made than yet another over-paid, under-achieving singing be made.
Luman, here you go, woulda coulda shoulda dumped McCann, he won’t rebound to a high level, his shoulder is too shot to hell unless he DH’s the majority of the time…
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
12:21 pm
Are you McCann’s doctor BravesFan?
Klaus
December 7th, 2012
12:22 pm
In year one he was an automatic out apart from 35-38 games in the middle of the summer. The bulk of his offensive production (saving his HR trend stats in particular) occurred during that stretch. He faded after that as well and assisted with the Sept collapse.
This past year walks were the only reason he was not benched for more than a few weeks late in the season. He stunk all year as an RBI guy and FG protected him until there was no where to hide and he had to bench him.
Uggla is flat out terrible as a situational hitter and mediocre as a RBI guy.
He is the same mold as Bay to ATL in terms of what they needed from him versus what he has given them. The ROI is upside down.
Unfortunately HRs don’t mean winning. That is how Uggla came here in the first place – people getting jazzed over the HRs. But 82 RBIs is pedestrian (rookies can give you that for a lot less – see FF).
HRs with no one on base or in lost cause games – you see this when you watch him every day (even when he was a Marlin) are his trademark.
Teams that win or go to the WS (caveat: “usually”) have their sluggers hitting 120+ RBIs OR have amazing situation hitting skills (Uggla does neither).
Uggla has only approached 100 once in his career. Now in his 30s don’t expect a great renaissance to his style or approach. Bulky shorter guys (esp short arms) who over compensate for lack of size with mass don’t last long once they hit 30. Uggla has likely see his best days with the Marlins.
He is terrible situational hitter, cannot make adjustments and keeps swing violently until he hits something.
Again lets hope he was one dead cat bounce year left in him so they can trade him in a year – making it easier to extend Prado and move him back to 2B.
That is all I ask. Play well enough to get out of town.
Klaus
December 7th, 2012
12:25 pm
Wow dearth – sorry at work and multi-tasking.
Nice
Klaus
December 7th, 2012
12:27 pm
Abundance of pitching depth lol hence no Hudson at 38yo in 2014
PDOG
December 7th, 2012
12:30 pm
It looks to me that the Braves and Blue Jays would match up perfect for a trade. The Jays have 5 outfielders if you count the Melk man and it seems they could use a first baseman. How about the Terd and Meja with a lower level pitching prospect for Bonaficio or Davies?
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
12:30 pm
I’d agree that Uggla hasn’t brought the ROI they thought they were getting. But he’s still performed better than Bay, and his contract is significantly less.
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
12:32 pm
well-said Klaus, I agree with all that 100%
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
12:51 pm
Rick C, I’ve already pointed out the success rate for professionaly baseball players returning from major shoulder surgery (across the board, not skewed by pitchers) so why does it matter what his Dr, thinks? They all will give glowing reports of their surgery and give high expectations for a successful recovery-that’s what they do. What I care more about is that something like 19% of all MLB players who undergo that surgery return to form and the majority of those are outfielders…
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
12:57 pm
If we don’t sign Upton, then miss out on Span, we would then be left with vastly overpaying in a trade or having an irate fan base over promoting internal options for cf and left. Bourn will demand too much.
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
1:25 pm
And the reason we missed out on Span is because you think whatever the Braves offered for him, they should have offered more – even though you have no idea what they offered for him.
Do I have that right>
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
1:26 pm
FanSince80s – So are you just playing the odds on McCann, or do you know for a fact he’s in the 81% and not the 19%
rainman34
December 7th, 2012
1:27 pm
If we could free up some cash by trading maholm or eof how sweet would it be to get Bourn on a one year deal if it comes to that for him. 1 year at 15 then go back out on the market next year.
Bourn
prado
heyward
uggla
freeman
upton
mac
simmons
One of if not best lineup in the nl if mac and uggla come back close to their old selves.
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
1:30 pm
Absolutely not. I was not in the give a lot to give Span group. I would have given Delgado, which I assume we offered, but Min liked the Nationals prospect better.
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
1:30 pm
Absolutely not. I was not in the give a lot to get Span group. I would have given Delgado, which I assume we offered, but Min liked the Nationals prospect better.
Posts about The Braves From Other Great Blogs issue #1 | Atlanta Braves Dugout Online | Atlanta Braves Blog
December 7th, 2012
1:30 pm
[...] the team to a .565 winning percentage in his first two seasons. Fredi became an e more… Braves leave Nashville with no LF, but not worried (UPDATED) – blogs.ajc.com 12/06/2012 NASHVILLE – Even if the season were to begin Friday, manager [...]
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
1:33 pm
I have a hard time thinking the Twins would have turned down Delgado, but who knows – maybe they see more upside the prospect they did get.
I think if the Braves sit tight for a while, they can get solid one-year rental without giving up any of our top prospects … then try again next year for a longer-term solution.
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
1:38 pm
Couldn’t agree more. I have not seen a single deal outside of potentially Span that intrigued me, and like I said that could have just been them being higher on the Nats prospect. I have seen crazy overpay for signings and trades. I like Wren’s patience and think something will come before the season. If not, we have internal options that can produce similiar to some of these options that are asking for a crazy return in prospects.
Brown
December 7th, 2012
1:45 pm
I have no idea what KC is asking for, but Alex Gordon seems like the best fit out of all the players the Braves have been linked to. The Royals have been our trade buddies in the past, so hopefully they can figure something out that doesn’t involve Simmons. The Royals could certainly use some pitching help.
Brown
December 7th, 2012
1:48 pm
Also, KC is pretty set at Shortstop, so it would seem less likely Simmons would be involved in a trade for Gordon.
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
1:51 pm
I could go for Gordon or Myers. KC is usually a fair trading partner.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2012
1:52 pm
Also, KC is pretty set at Shortstop, so it would seem less likely Simmons would be involved in a trade for Gordon. — Brown
Particularly since Simmons isn’t being traded, period. Not for Justin Upton, not for Alex Gordon, not traded period.
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
1:54 pm
DOB- Gut feeling, if we do go internal, who gets the spot?
Brown
December 7th, 2012
1:56 pm
I meant less likely KC would ask for him – didn’t mean to imply Braves would consider trading Simmons – I know they wouldn’t
Wes
December 7th, 2012
2:00 pm
Just wanted to point out it isn’t mathematically possible to have 18 pinch hits in one season and also have .413 pinch hitting average.
BUT – Glad to have Reed back. Clutch hitter and he seemed fit in very well with the club house. Let’s get us one more good right handed stick and lay the smack down on the NL.
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
2:10 pm
18 for 43, .419
nerdville
December 7th, 2012
2:11 pm
upton and schafer aren’t the answer to the braves anemic offense. offensively, the braves have gone backwards. once again it is apparent that wren is in over his head. he should have already dumped uggla, who is the single biggest drag on the offense.
nerdville
December 7th, 2012
2:14 pm
if wren trades andrelton, j.s. really needs to order him to see a shrink (then fire him).
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
2:18 pm
BravesFanSince80s, my point was that you have nothing to support your claim that his shoulder is “shot to hell.”
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
2:21 pm
Kinda hard to dump a guy when his value is at its lowest and his salary is at its highest.
And exactly how has Wren shown he’s over his head? One the one hand, you claim he makes knee-jerk signings/trades, on the other you complain that he has not acted fast enough for your tastes.
Can’t have it both ways.
Klaus
December 7th, 2012
2:21 pm
Also, KC is pretty set at Shortstop, so it would seem less likely Simmons would be involved in a trade for Gordon. — Brown
Particularly since Simmons isn’t being traded, period. Not for Justin Upton, not for Alex Gordon, not traded period.
That is why Wren better pray Simmons is the next Jeter or Arod in his prime. Shortstops outside of them and or say an Ozzie Smith don’t carry teams and win rings for said teams.
OFers and corner INFers put teams on their backs and win the whole enchilada. SS and 2B are defensive positives where you hope to get serviceable offense.
Simmons showing some hitting skills in AAA and a whopping 39 games in the ML is what Wren is basing this position on re: trades.
We know what Justin Upton can do (2010, 2011) we hope Simmons is at least if not a whole lot more that what we saw in a few number of ABs.
Klaus
December 7th, 2012
2:23 pm
So no one would trade Simmons for Kemp, Trout, Harper. Is he better than Furcal by orders of magnitude bc we hade Furcal in his prime and won how many rings?
Klaus
December 7th, 2012
2:24 pm
defensive positions. damn spell check…
nerdville
December 7th, 2012
2:27 pm
………here is a just a few examples wren is in over his head: kk, lowe, uggla, mcout. your argument for keeping uggla is irrelevant–he is a sunk cost.
Steve
December 7th, 2012
2:29 pm
Since nothing is happening right now I am going to propose a trade or two just for fun. And yes, I know they are inane and ridiculous ahead of time, but oh well.
Delgado, Teheran, and Uggla to KC for Myer and Moustakas. Rumor is that the Royals want to win now and they are just not sure about Myer. They know they need pitching. This would allow the Braves to put Myer in LF, Mouse at 3B and move Pradot to 2nd. We could even pay some of Uggla’s salary and still save a ton. That saving plus other money we have could possibly go to a FA pitcher.
We would not go after Greinke, but we could possibly make a run at a one or two year deal for Dempster or maybe even go for multi-year on Lohse, Sanchez or Jackson.
I know most people think I am crazy to think about moving Teheran and Delgado both, but I have seen enough of Teheran to think he is a Jurrgens clone with possibly less ability. Delgado has looked very good so far. Both of these guys move right into the KC rotation. We would have to give them up to have any chance of moving Uggla’s contract and still getting excellent value in return. This also gives us more finanacial flexibility since Mouse and Myer will still be cheap for a few years.
dylan
December 7th, 2012
2:29 pm
im extremely happy wren didn’t give up minor or simmons. those are 2 building blocks (along with medlen, heyward, freeman, venters, kimbral, and prado) that will be the foundation for the braves for a long time( IF they hurry up and sign them all to long contracts)
justin upton is not a good fit for the braves. has way too much baggage and attitude to put him next to his brother, who has the same baggage and attitude. (btw the BJ signing was dumb, i would rather have had bourn back at the same price)
the big problem with this team is that we have plenty of low avg high SO “power guys”. this does not win championships. it looks great in the regular season, but flops in the postseason.
cunningham and gattis are longterm answers, but cunningham isnt ready yet. give him another season at AA and we’ll see how he does for a full season. also, don’t forget about joey terdoslavich. can’t field, but has a + major league bat.
if they can get him without overpaying, id say the braves should go after cory hart. shouldnt be too hard, the brew crew is desperate for pitching. teheran/delgado +mejia or another older, blocked prospect (NOT ahmed or gattis) should be enough to land him
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
2:36 pm
Klaus, why do you think Arizona is so adamant about Simmons being a part of any trade for Upton?
Steve
December 7th, 2012
2:38 pm
Wendall … I been talking up Schafer here a ton and I agree with you that very few are giving him the benefit of the doubt.
In 893 PA’s (about 1.3 years), he has 51 steals and plays stellar defense (personally I would leave him in CF and move Upton to LF but that might offend Upton. Nagging injuries have ruined every little hot streak he gets into. His top end is enormous compared to Constanza and I really think he could get the job done.
The problem is, the Braves think more of Francisco than they do of Schafer and if they don’t make any other moves they would go into the season with Prado in left and Francisco getting most of the 3b starts. Against lefties I would assume Prado would move in to third and Johnson would get the nod in LF.
I like Francisco, but I would rather we have a true leadoff type hitter in the game and Schafer fits that bill. Of course, if we could find a way to move Uggla then Prado has his home and we can start both Schafer and Francisco and see what happens. Quite frankly I am tired of old retreads starting in front of our rookies. When we let guys like Simmons, Freeman, Heyward and McCann actually play they end up doing well. That is why KC and Washington have good young players … they let them play and learn on the job instead of putting some geriatric vet out there.
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
2:43 pm
“I like Francisco, but I would rather we have a true leadoff type hitter in the game and Schafer fits that bill.”
Speed alone does not make a player a true lead off hitter. Schafer has a career 301 OBP.
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
2:44 pm
*Career 305 OBP. I was looking at his fantastic SLG percentage…
jbill
December 7th, 2012
2:44 pm
Steve what in hell has Schafer ever done in baseball..we know what he does other wise. He’s had two good months ..period.
Perennial Playoff Failures
December 7th, 2012
2:45 pm
I’m glad we didn’t get Retard Span or Paul Revere. They both suck donkey dong. Let Wren work his magic and get a guy like Hart for us. We’ll get there, just have to be patient.
Luman Harris
December 7th, 2012
2:49 pm
You don’t think you could point to any GM in the big leagues and not find four deals that didn’t work out?
jbill
December 7th, 2012
2:51 pm
Wren is not finished..13 weeks before pitcher and catcher report…..
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
2:57 pm
ok Rick C, how ’bout the medical report stating that the tear in McCann’s labrum wound up worse than even the tests inidicated once they went in and medical report after medical report after medical report stating that if there is much of a tear in the labrum at all chance for successful recovery to a “normal range of function” is slim to none….hmmmm? He plays catcher Rick C, not DH in the AL, he plays catcher. McCann will forever be one hard bump at the plate away from the DL from this point on, and that’s even IF he rehabs his shoulder well enough to throw well enough to play everyday or something like that in the first place…
Perennial Playoff Failures
December 7th, 2012
3:02 pm
Who cares if McCann is finished. We have Paul Bunyan waiting in the wings: http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/braves_cautiously_enamored_with_gattis_power/12315496
A.P.
December 7th, 2012
3:04 pm
You a doctor Bravesfan? I would assume the Braves FO would do just a little bit of research before they picked up a 13 mil option. I know you are of the Braves FO and Wren are morons group, but I assure you they have more concrete facts regarding the situation than some report you read on the internet
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
3:06 pm
Matt Kemp had surgery several weeks ago to repair a torn labrum. If you had to bet on he or McCann to return to form post-surgery, which would it be? My money would be on Kemp, the fitness nut, over dough-boy McCann…
Rick C
December 7th, 2012
3:08 pm
Again, BravesFan you’re just speculating. You aren’t his doctor and haven’t seen his medical reports. You don’t know all the facts, so stop acting like you do.
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
3:08 pm
Perennial: the Braves are paying McCann 12 million of our 95 mil payroll in the HOPES he’s not finished. Once again, why do I need to be a doctor to read plenty of sports medicine studies that tout this surgery as one of the tops to end a career on?
Real Talk
December 7th, 2012
3:11 pm
Schafer is a career .221 hitter who K’s every third at bat and this is some of the fans answer to leadoff hitter….interesting!!!!…and Bravesfan on Mccann he will have a huge bounce back season and you will be on his bandwagon about July so it doesnt matter what you think
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
3:11 pm
According to Wren, there was very little discussion made on McCann, he was considered a huge part of the organization and apparently his physical status was of little or no concern, just paraphrasing his brief comments to the press of course…
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
3:13 pm
and again, Rick C, just because the surgeon didn’t come and say, “it was a hack-job, I turned the guy’s shoulder into hamburger,” is no reason to be optimistic about a surgery that has been overwhelmingly unsuccessful…
Real Talk
December 7th, 2012
3:14 pm
Latest Rumor running in the desert is Delgado, Mejia, and Ahmed for Justin Upton, but only if the Cabrera for Upton deal falls through with the Indians!!
Perennial Playoff Failures
December 7th, 2012
3:16 pm
I’ll grant you it wasn’t smart to resign him, but it was a lose lose scenario for Wren. McCann was kind of our face of the franchise. Plus, with the current options not being all that great, or kind of old FA’s, McCann does still have a lot of upside IF he comes back healthy. Uggla is another hole in the lineup, but we’re stuck with him too financially as there was no way we could have moved him without eating a big loss in cash. I like Gattis to replace Mac though, so I think we’ll be ok. The biggest focus should be on LF right now and trying to get one of (Hart, Upton, Fowler, Ludwick Von Beethoven, Willingham, or the Boner Afficionado). Catcher is a done deal we have to move on.
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
3:19 pm
read the scouting reports, Gattis isn’t viewed as a ML level catcher defensively, he’s going to be in LF for the Braves, if at all. C is going to be a BIG issue this coming season…
bravesnut
December 7th, 2012
3:30 pm
Ichiro to 1 year deal until Gattis is ready…..problem solved.
Perennial Playoff Failures
December 7th, 2012
3:34 pm
Itchy-Zero wants too much moolah.
kral
December 7th, 2012
3:42 pm
If you knew mcann’s medical status brfan..someone is in trouble with hippa
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:08 pm
I like Alejandro De Aza, but would rather see Bonifacio patrolling left and leading off this year.
1. Boni
2. Prado
3. Heyward
4. Ughla
5. Freeman
6. Upton
7. Simmons
8. Laird
Delgado ain't the second coming.......
December 7th, 2012
4:11 pm
Delgado ain’t all that!!!! He is at best a journeyman pitcher who has never cracked the major league team to stay there…..up down, up down, up down…..real talent comes up and shines and stays…..in my book he is till bush league.
Delgado ain't the second coming.......
December 7th, 2012
4:11 pm
Delgado ain’t all that!!!! He is at best a journeyman pitcher who has never cracked the major league team to stay there…..up down, up down, up down…..real talent comes up and shines and stays…..in my book he is till bush league.
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:12 pm
Real Talk…you’re making that up, loser.
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:12 pm
Real Talk…you’re making that up, loser.
Real Talk
December 7th, 2012
4:22 pm
we will see and thanks for the compliment:}
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:22 pm
4 more years of Obama, 3 more years of Uggla, 5 more years of Upton….
What a horrible time we are living in.
Real Talk
December 7th, 2012
4:23 pm
By the way Bonafacio is not very good and cant answer what we need !!
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:25 pm
It’s not Delgado’s fault he has been jerked around, you dumbass. And what are you talking about real talent shines and stays? Ever heard of John Smoltz? Maddux? Roy Halladay?
Go find a new hobby. You clearly don’t know anything about baseball.
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:25 pm
It’s not Delgado’s fault he has been jerked around, you dumbass. And what are you talking about real talent shines and stays? Ever heard of John Smoltz? Maddux? Roy Halladay?
Go find a new hobby. You clearly don’t know anything about baseball.
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
This is what happens when I visit the site before 5pm. All the weirdos without jobs or and education are are that’s here….
Real Talk being the premier loser of the bunch per usual.
What a terrible name, too. Real Talk? Cool, gangster.
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
hippa?
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:28 pm
are all*
Real Talk
December 7th, 2012
4:29 pm
@Dumb so you saying Delgado is a HOF’er because to compare his situation to those three is like comparing apples and oranges, but with that said Delgado can be a very solid #2 or #3 guy as he continues to grow in experience!!
Real Talk
December 7th, 2012
4:31 pm
@Dumb now that is funny so you think that if you post before 5 you have no job…too funny…you dont realize what it really is like up here in the penthouse do you!!
Comfortably Dumb
December 7th, 2012
4:35 pm
I won’t even humor you with a reply. You are a moron, clearly.
If I’ve learned one thing from this site, it’s there are A LOT of stupid people you have to weed through to find the few fans who actually have a clue. Go play in the dirt, Real Talk. And consider a less pathetic name while you’re at it.
Penthouse. Ha.
Real Talk
December 7th, 2012
4:36 pm
@ Dumb technically you replied to me:}
Ray
December 7th, 2012
4:39 pm
completely made up. It is not reported anywhere
Real Talk
December 7th, 2012
5:08 pm
I really like seaing homeruns. I think that Wren is doing really good job in his job of GM. He should keep doing what he is doing bc he is doing good job. We are going to win everything and every game on the scedule this year! GO BRAVES!
jbill
December 7th, 2012
5:10 pm
Wren never tells who he is offering….
single white dove
December 7th, 2012
5:20 pm
A.P.
December 6th, 2012
1:28 pm
DOB- Any potential interest in A. Soriano? I heard the Cubs would pick up a good portion of his salary, and wouldn’t cost much in prospects. Potentially 30 bombs for around 9 mil (Assuming the Cubs eat half
I agree…
Seattle Braves
December 7th, 2012
5:31 pm
Im Telling all of you now. This is what the Braves need. A big bat.
Stanton.. Stanton… STANTON…..
I could see an attrative EOF and others for Stanton from the marlins.
Lineup:
Simmons
Prado
Heyward
Stanton
Freeman
BJ Upton
McCann
Uggla
Picther
single white dove
December 7th, 2012
5:41 pm
BravesFanSince80s
December 7th, 2012
11:41 am
home runs aren’t what wins WS rings A.P.
Where you thawed out of a glacier? The braves won one in 95 by a homerun…