Braves balk at some trade ‘ask’ prices

NASHVILLE – They still were working several possibilities, but as the last full day at the Winter Meetings wore on Wednesday it sounded as if the Braves might leave Nashville without making a deal for a left fielder or bench help.

“Last night we started exchanging names more and getting information, and some of the ‘asks’ were beyond what we were comfortable doing,” Braves general manager Frank Wren said. “So we crossed some conversations off the list. We still have a couple of open conversations, but I’d say we had probably four or five more specific conversations going on and we were able to cross a couple of those off last night because of the high ‘ask.’ We’re still continuing to talk with a couple of others.”

Wren doesn’t divulge specific players the Braves are pursuing, but it was known they explored potential trades for outfielders including Arizona’s Justin Upton, Colorado’s Dexter Fowler, Cleveland’s Shin-Soo Choo and Kansas City’s Alex Gordon, and Toronto’s Emilio Bonifacio. They hadn’t gained much if any traction on any of those.

Bonifacio got traded last month from Miami to Toronto, and until the Winter Meetings it wasn’t though that Toronto would consider trading the speedster, who can play all three outfield positions and all the infield positions except first base. The switch-hitter stole 30 bases in 33 attempts in 2012 despite playing just 64 games because of thumb and knee injuries. He batted .258 with a .330 on-base percentage.

So far it’s believed Toronto is holding off trading Bonifacio a while unless they’re blown away by an offer. But he could be available eventually, and might be a good fit for Atlanta.

He had his best season in 2011, setting career highs in average (.296), OBP (.360), slugging percentage (.393), home runs (five), stolen bases (40), RBIs (36), runs (78) and games played (152), only the second time he played in as many as 75 games.

The Braves might also have interest in Boston’s Jacoby Ellsbury, but his price in a trade would be high — and seem especially so since he’s a season away from free-agent eligibility and is represented by Scott Boras, making it more than likely he’s a one-year rental if traded.

On the free-agent market, the Braves had interest in outfielder/pinch-hitter Nate Schierholtz before he agreed to a deal with the Cubs on Wednesday.

If the Braves don’t get the everday-type left fielder they wanted, they could possibly use someone similar to Schierholtz in left, perhaps sharing time with right-handed hitter (the Braves are trying to re-sign Reed Johnson). Martin Prado could also play some in left again if the Braves keep third baseman Juan Francisco, who excels against right-handed pitchers.

Or there might even be a regular third-base role for Francisco if the Braves don’t get another left fielder and he shows he can be more consistent and hit lefties after work he’s done on his swing. He made adjustments with Braves hitting coach Greg Walker in the second half of the 2012 season, and Francisco has had an impressive winter-ball season in the Dominican Republic, hitting .316 with six homers and a .932 OPS in 26 games before Wednesday.

Francisco had a two-homer, six-RBI game Tuesday in an 11-0 win for Licey. By the way, Braves pitching prospect Julio Teheran tossed five no-hit innings in that same game for Licey to give him 10-2/3 innings of one-hit ball in his past two starts.

The Braves have talked with teams about Francisco, but might not deal him unless they’re sure they are covered in left field and third base. If possible, they’d like to stick with their plan of having Prado play third and get a left fielder who could bat leadoff.

“We’re kind of still kicking it around,” manager Fredi Gonzalez said. “Frank and our scouts and our front office people, they’re knocking on doors and calling people and looking for that perfect or prototypical leadoff hitter. But if the season started tomorrow, you feel pretty comfortable that we could [make do] because of the versatility that Prado gives us. He could play left field and you could do something at third base with Juan Francisco or let Prado play third and you could do something at left field with a combination of some of the other candidates that we have.”

The Winter Meetings will end Thursday at the conclusion of the Rule 5 draft that starts at 10 a.m. Eastern Time. The Braves don’t expect to select anyone in the major-league phase of the draft.

315 comments Add your comment

tnt

December 5th, 2012
9:46 pm

I’m first?

tnt

December 5th, 2012
9:46 pm

I’m first?

Martin

December 5th, 2012
9:46 pm

FIRST! AND SAME OLD BS!

Angel Eyes

December 5th, 2012
9:47 pm

I wish my boss paid me the big money for doing NOTHING.

braveslover

December 5th, 2012
9:48 pm

Hope we don’t stand pat until the season starts. The puzzle needs a few more pieces to complete. We need Reed Johnson so don’t let him get away. Put the money we saved on Ross to get Reed.

Sam The Swami

December 5th, 2012
9:52 pm

WInter Meetings = Snooze Fest 2012. We all want action and things are really watered down. That said, I don’t want us overpaying. I really HATE the Ellsbury option…one year rental of his caliber will cost us a pretty penny.

Go get Cody Ross or Dexter Fowler and let’s make it work. We have flexible guys who can lead off…let’s GO BRAVES!

raffy

December 5th, 2012
9:53 pm

Nuh Uh

December 5th, 2012
9:54 pm

SportyNuts

December 5th, 2012
9:59 pm

You feel like this is a bit of a disappointment…

Bob

December 5th, 2012
10:02 pm

This front office is so tough to read.

First, there is the issue of talent evaluation. Do you remember when TH, JJ and JS were untouchable? Now, JS is back….but why? And, TH got the team little in return. JJ got nothing for the team.

Second, there is the issue of money badly spent. Uggla for 12 million a year. Time to admit such was a mistake and move forwa

Third, there ie the issue of speed versus power and (strike outs). In 2013 the team will have at least 3 players who will hit at least 20 homers but will strike out at least 150 times each for a total of 450 strikeouts from three players. Such amounts to way to many give away outs.

Let us hope that the front office will move forward with some level of vision.

RJB in DC

December 5th, 2012
10:02 pm

OK, the more I look at what is left out in the FA market and potentially via trade, the more I am inclined to buy into what Frank Wren is saying about the best value being letting the LF position be filled by a platoon from the current roster. While I would like to see Reed Johnson be the mainstay of the group, I suspect the problem is that he really looking for a full time/multi-year deal. Given the young potential outfield talent coming up, it would surprise me if the Braves are offering him anymore than a one year gig.

If Todd Cunningham can carry the success he had in AA over to Gwinnett, he could easily find himself on the big league roster after the all star break— taking Schafer’s spot on the roster. While I am not quite convinced that Gattis is the RH power bat that the Brave crave, the switch hitting Cunningham could be a long term solution in CF and near the top of the order with his high OBP and speed. In which case they could slide BJ Upton over to LF and solidify the outfield for a long time to come.

Given Dexter Fowler’s historical splits away from Coors Field, it seems hard to make a case why he might be worth either Delgado or Tehran. Over the past four seasons while on the road (898 AB’s), his offensive line is 248 / 333 / 370 with a 703 OPS.

mike

December 5th, 2012
10:02 pm

package Delgado and Ahmed for Justin Upton. D-Backs said they need SS and SP…

Juan Gone

December 5th, 2012
10:03 pm

Francisco actually has 7 HRs and an OPS of over .960. He already has a BB and a three run BOMB tonight.

SportyNuts

December 5th, 2012
10:04 pm

Gattis is a legit bat, RJB, it’s his glove that’s the question mark.

Joe

December 5th, 2012
10:06 pm

I honestly feel comfortable with Juan at 3rd base

tnt

December 5th, 2012
10:08 pm

Justin Upton is the best available option right now.

least of the east

December 5th, 2012
10:09 pm

Wren got on mlbtv and got his national exposure. he seemed pleased- about what, nobody knows
I thought when you negotiate you go back and forth. it sounds like Wren gets take it or leave it offers. mlb network says everyone needs pitching, but he can’t get a decent deal with anyone ?
these winter meetings are just an excuse for a winter vacation.
Schierholz got a 1 yr $2.5 mill deal from Cubs. Braves couldn’t afford him either ? why would he want to play for the Cubs ?
lots of teams have full 40 man rosters and can’t take anyone in Rule 5 draft. I don’t see why Braves can’t get someone. BA quoted soemone who said draft was deep this year.

Doctor Glenbo

December 5th, 2012
10:12 pm

Even though I like his power, starting Francisco just won’t cut it next year. Just another guy to strikeout near 150 times. The Winter Meetings are almost always a big waste of time for Braves fans to keep updated on.

We need speed and an OBP guy or a big-time hitter in LF. Choo, Gordon, J. Upton, or Ellsbury should be aggressively sought after. To me, if we don’t get one of those guys or a player with similar talents, then I deem this off season a failure. We need one more very good player. Platooning Matt Diaz and Gregor Blanco like we did in the past ain’t gonna cut it NO MO.

Realistic

December 5th, 2012
10:12 pm

Angel Eyes @ 9:47: Sometimes ‘nothing’ is the best option.

RJB in DC

December 5th, 2012
10:15 pm

D-backs said they wanted a top tier MLB ready shortstop (as well as a top of rotation SP). Ahmed won’t fit the bill.

RJB in DC

December 5th, 2012
10:21 pm

Why would we want to add another left-handed bat (Schierholz) into the line-up?

Miami Dave

December 5th, 2012
10:22 pm

May have to wait to see what Santa brings the Braves…

jimmy

December 5th, 2012
10:23 pm

You know I would hold off trading pitchers. Hudson isn’t getting younger and Maholm isn’t signed long term. Guys will have to be replaced.

Bossmann45

December 5th, 2012
10:23 pm

I would still like to get Ichiro. i saw a report that he was asking for around 5 mil a season. Make it a 2 yr/19 mil contract and we have a lead off hitter that knows how to get on base. He revitalized his career last year when he got out of Seattle. Plus think about all the seats that will be filled by the Japanese fan base, both local and tourist. He would basically pay for himself! Go Bravos!

Bossmann45

December 5th, 2012
10:24 pm

I meant 10 mil!

TK

December 5th, 2012
10:31 pm

The negativity on this blog makes my head hurt. Some of you guys realize that trades can happen after the Winter Meetings conclude tomorrow, right?? The Winter Meetings is a time to complete trades but also lay the groundwork for trades to happen later in the offseason. The Braves have already made a huge splash signing BJ Upton and they have more money to spend on the roster. It seems like some of you want Wren to make a move just to say he made a move. We all know that doesn’t work out well. Most of our targets have question marks around them (Fowler and his road splits, Choo and the fact that he has one year left on his contract and his agent is Boras, Upton and the DBacks insistance on including Simmons in any deal). I am sure Wren is doing his due diligence on all options and will pull the trigger on the right deal. For those of you who state Wren has no vision for this team and is taking this week as a vacation, you need to get a clue.

Sam The Swami

December 5th, 2012
10:43 pm

DOB: How do other GMs value Delgado and Tehran at this stage? Obviously their value is diminished vs. 2 years ago, right?

Yuuup

December 5th, 2012
10:44 pm

I am a diehard Braves fan since the age of 4. I will say this much, if Juan Francisco is the starting 3rd baseman for this team entering spring training, I will cancel my MLB Extra Innings package, and cancel my plans of flying to Atlanta to tour the stadium and attend a weekend series.

I am sick of this going cheap and hoping like hell routine. You have the money to spend, you lost several fan favorites this offseason, you need to do something to get fans excited. Spending 75 million on a CF’er who is not as good as the one we just had, won’t cut it. I am tired of the stupid platoon routine, I am sick of the going cheap route, and I am tired of watching the Braves choke when they have every opportunity to succeed. It’s about time the Braves go for it all again, what time is better than the current when you have money to spend, and prospects that have trade value? I am really trying to stay positive for next season, but we are already a weaker team than we were back in September, and it sounds as though Wren and Company are staying pat.

Casper

December 5th, 2012
10:44 pm

Give Francisco a chance. His work with Walker looks like it is paying off. If he comes into spring training in shape, he could be a sleeper. Projections over 162 games, he’s probably close to 30 dingers and 90 rbi’s a year. Ain’t nothing wrong with those numbers. Give the man a shot. If it works out, probably not going to cost a lot of money. If it doesn’t, fill the needs before the trade deadline next season. My two cents.

fansince66

December 5th, 2012
10:50 pm

Fransisco, Freeman, Uggla, Upton, and Heyward 700 strike outs. Thats a scary thought. Lots of 1-2-3 innings. Better keep pitching staff healthy.

Larry B

December 5th, 2012
10:50 pm

I know I’m in the bottom of the pile in the minority, but I am still thinking that Danny Uggla will make a bunch of you all eat your words. I betcha Danny will come into this year and surprise everyone but me!

TK

December 5th, 2012
10:52 pm

Yuup – did you not see Wren on MLB network tonight say he is not done making moves this winter? Why do you think he is done with the roster in the first week of December??? Wren will make his moves when the time is right. Be patient.

TK

December 5th, 2012
10:56 pm

Fansince66 – that could also be 150HR and 450 RBI.

RJB in DC

December 5th, 2012
11:00 pm

Choo is also a left handed power guy who is good for another 150 K’s a year, 19 HR and a .465 SLG.

Juan Francisco is a right handed power guy who projects out to 113 K a year, 13 HR and a .440 SLG.

We need the right handed power balance in the line up, and we don’t need a FA in 2014 represented by Boras.

RJB in DC

December 5th, 2012
11:01 pm

Choo is also a left handed power guy who is good for another 150 K’s a year, 19 HR and a .465 SLG.

Juan Francisco is a right handed power guy who (at a minimum) projects out to 113 K a year, 13 HR and a .440 SLG.

We need the right handed power balance in the line up, and we don’t need a FA in 2014 represented by Boras.

RWill

December 5th, 2012
11:02 pm

Offer the Royals Beachy, Ahmed, Gattis for either Gordon or Myers (preferrably Myers).

RJB in DC

December 5th, 2012
11:03 pm

Choo is also a left handed power guy who is good for another 150 K’s a year, 19 HR and a .465 SLG.

Juan Francisco is a right handed power guy who (at a minimum) projects out to 13 HR and a .440 SLG for only 113 K’s. He could easily some in considerably higher in the HR department as well.

We need the right handed power balance in the line up, and we don’t need a FA in 2014 represented by Boras.

RJB in DC

December 5th, 2012
11:05 pm

Apologies for the multiple posts. Seem to have problems posting up this evening.

tmc

December 5th, 2012
11:18 pm

Why is it when we trade a former top pitching prospect in all of MLB (T.Hanson), we only get a relieve pitcher in return.
But when other teams talk trade to the Braves, we have to give up a player, a prospect, two turtle dove’s and a partridge in a pair tree!

Very frustrating to have commodities and give them away and end up with either a stiff or someone no one’s heard of. Or we keep players to long and watch them walk away as free agents.

Either way sucks, but I don’t want go into next season with 2 fourth outfielders playing left field (reed/castanza). Because we went on the cheap.
Where the he!! Is all the money we had to spend?

C’mon Wren! How bout showing the fan base you know what you’re doing.

NORRIS CHUCK

December 5th, 2012
11:19 pm

RJB,

Fransisco is left handed.

tmc

December 5th, 2012
11:27 pm

TK- your 10:52pm post…

To answer your question about Wren and being done w/ the roster the first week of December?
Frank Wren has stated many times over the last few years that he likes to have the roster set around this time of year. It’s well chronicalled if you want to look it up.
I have never agreed with his philosophy, but I will be surprised if the roster isn’t set by this time next week. Old baseball guys don’t change their ways very easy.

tmc

December 5th, 2012
11:27 pm

TK- your 10:52pm post…

To answer your question about Wren and being done w/ the roster the first week of December?
Frank Wren has stated many times over the last few years that he likes to have the roster set around this time of year. It’s well chronicalled if you want to look it up.
I have never agreed with his philosophy, but I will be surprised if the roster isn’t set by this time next week. Old baseball guys don’t change their ways very easy.

Brandon

December 5th, 2012
11:30 pm

I also believe that the braves should give Francisco a chance. He is a guy that has more raw power than any current brave in my opinion. He has always hit for average through the minors so there is no reason for me to suspect that he would not in the big leagues. Whenever he had a chance to start, his numbers were pretty good. He never had a problem hitting against lefties until they started platooning him(when he came to the majors). I say let him play full time and see what he can do. He’s tearing up lefties and righties right now in the winter league

Heyward batted .224 against lefties last season
Freeman batted .237 against lefties

no reason we shouldn’t let francisco get a chance with the potential that he has

2hotscott

December 5th, 2012
11:33 pm

What I blame Wren for is not having the foresight years ago to know that one day Chipper would walk away from 3rd base and not having a viable option to replace him long-term. Yes, Prado is a good replacement, but how many times can you move him around and pray he doesn’t get hurt and then you are really screwed. You’re going into the off season with 7 starters by the all-star break next season, so instead of asking teams for their players, wy not simply let it b known that you are willing to trade Teheran and/or Delgado and see what you get offered? You have Spurrill and Gilmartin who are the next big things in the organization, so please do not get desperate before spring training and make a stupid move. Teheran, Simmons and Delgado are not proven commodities at the big league level, but Justin Upton and Alex Gordon are. You do not need a lead off hitter, you need someone batting first who can hit. Prado, anyone? Put Gordon batting second, then Heyward, Upton, Freeman, Uggla, McCann, and Simmons. I like the Simmons kids better than Teheran ad Delgado, because if he puts on another 15 pounds of muscle he could be a 20 homer player. Advice? Frank, quit talking to the other teams about what you want, just let them know what you have and let them get desperate. They don’t want to overpay for aging veterans who are past their primes like the Yankees and Sox do. Call Dayton Moore in KC and tell him that Teheran and/or Delgado are available, and see what he’s willing to offer. If you don’t like what he’s offering, hang upand call him back in a week or two. Hell, tell him you will take Frenchy off his hands as well to help him with his payroll.

NORRIS CHUCK

December 5th, 2012
11:35 pm

Up in Boston the fan polls say 57 percent of the people say trade Ellsbury. The reason…The Sox need pitching in a bad way, something the Braves always seem to have too much of.

And every year with all the pitching they have, its always the Braves bats that get shut down in the post-season

Brandon

December 5th, 2012
11:38 pm

@tmc – because he’s a FORMER top prospect

Brandon

December 5th, 2012
11:42 pm

@NORRIS CHUCK – I’d say that in the postseason against the top pitching it will generally be a struggle to score runs…However, I believe in the braves’ past two postseason cameos, the problem has been their defense. 2010: conrad…2012: chipper, uggla, simmons(although his error was forgivable) If the braves had played solid defense on both occasions, they likely would’ve won both series

Tom in ATL

December 5th, 2012
11:45 pm

Tommy Hanson might have once been a premier prospect (and a pretty good MLB pitcher for 2/3 seasons)- but the reason we only got a releiver in return is becuase his performance as a major leaguer recently warranted it. Everyone knows of his mechanical issues, loss of velocity, injury problems. Becuase the guy was a stud 5 years ago means squat. Walden is an excellent high ceiling young pitcher and gives the Braves a truly vaunted pen – to go along with a pretty good rotation, also with lots of upside (Medlan broke through, Minor is on the cusp, Beachy will return at some point, and relaible veterans in Hudson and Maholm).
We’ve got budding All-Stars in Right and 1st, a stud young SS, Uggla, BJ and McCann – and of course Prado. Having a stud LF would be great but not necessary. This team is built to win 90 games right now – High 90’s if BJ, Uggla, and McCann reach their historical norms.

Tom in ATL

December 5th, 2012
11:45 pm

Tommy Hanson might have once been a premier prospect (and a pretty good MLB pitcher for 2/3 seasons)- but the reason we only got a releiver in return is becuase his performance as a major leaguer recently warranted it. Everyone knows of his mechanical issues, loss of velocity, injury problems. Becuase the guy was a stud 5 years ago means squat. Walden is an excellent high ceiling young pitcher and gives the Braves a truly vaunted pen – to go along with a pretty good rotation, also with lots of upside (Medlan broke through, Minor is on the cusp, Beachy will return at some point, and relaible veterans in Hudson and Maholm).
We’ve got budding All-Stars in Right and 1st, a stud young SS, Uggla, BJ and McCann – and of course Prado. Having a stud LF would be great but not necessary. This team is built to win 90 games right now – High 90’s if BJ, Uggla, and McCann reach their historical norms.

carney johnson

December 5th, 2012
11:45 pm

i think wren’s made some very good NON-moves. boston’s paying 13 mil a year for victorino and napoli? that’s craziness. wren’s not panicking like that. there’s plenty of time to make a deal. waiting may well be the best strategy right now. or maybe you’d gotten all excited about nate schierholtz?

i just hope whoever we sign allows prado to stay in one position for the whole season.

Tom in ATL

December 5th, 2012
11:45 pm

Tommy Hanson might have once been a premier prospect (and a pretty good MLB pitcher for 2/3 seasons)- but the reason we only got a releiver in return is becuase his performance as a major leaguer recently warranted it. Everyone knows of his mechanical issues, loss of velocity, injury problems. Becuase the guy was a stud 5 years ago means squat. Walden is an excellent high ceiling young pitcher and gives the Braves a truly vaunted pen – to go along with a pretty good rotation, also with lots of upside (Medlan broke through, Minor is on the cusp, Beachy will return at some point, and relaible veterans in Hudson and Maholm).
We’ve got budding All-Stars in Right and 1st, a stud young SS, Uggla, BJ and McCann – and of course Prado. Having a stud LF would be great but not necessary. This team is built to win 90 games right now – High 90’s if BJ, Uggla, and McCann reach their historical norms.

tmc

December 5th, 2012
11:48 pm

Brandon’s he’s not a 10 year veteran who averages 10 wins a season. He’s finished his 4th year and is 26 years old averaging 11 wins per season.

That’s pretty darn good and we get a relief pitcher who throws hard but has consistency problems in return?

It sounds lazy to me. Like Wren took the first offer he got for him.

2hotscott

December 5th, 2012
11:48 pm

Ellsbury is a one year rental, because Boras (the cancer of baseball) is praying he has a bounce back year from injuries so he can go FA next winter, then yo have the same problem as this year. Boston just paid two players past their primes 13 million a year for the next 3 years, and some of you thing Upton is being overpaid, and he’s entering what should be his prime years.

Drew

December 5th, 2012
11:48 pm

With the team they have now, they should be on pace to make the playoffs. Can often get a good deal on a better player before the trade deadline. By then, we would know exactly what they need and who best to fill it. You don’t know how exactly everything will pan out.

Largo

December 5th, 2012
11:50 pm

Ellsbury had one great year but has played only 250 games in last three because of injuries. Also, he’ll be a free agent after 2013.

Spud

December 5th, 2012
11:59 pm

Hey DOB, I don’t understand the rational for this; “The Braves might also have interest in Boston’s Jacoby Ellsbury, but his price in a trade would be high, especially since he’s only one season from free agency and is represented by Scott Boras.”
If he ,(Ellsbury), is one season away from being a FA, and his agent is Boras, which historically means he will be going to another team, why would the price be high? Wouldn’t the Red Sox simply be looking to get something/anything in return as the Braves did in the Texira trade if they felt they were likely to lose him? Why would another team pay a high price for a guy who will likely be gone after one season?
This looks like one of those situations where a team either decides to keep a guy and hope for the best as the Cards did with Pujols, or trade for the combination of lesser player or a prospect, plus salary dump.

jbill

December 5th, 2012
11:59 pm

Frenchy?????
We already got Frenchy’s twin Schafer……

I believe Wren over values some of our players because other teams wont pay his high price.
Chipper bat has not been replaced……

Steve

December 5th, 2012
11:59 pm

I worry about Elsbury as the Red Sox are likely seeking a package of players and he would be a one year rental. Hate giving up depth for that, especially given that he is a Boras client.

I think I would rather just give Schafer, Constanza and Francisco more opportunity. Bonifacio would be fine if he came cheaper and he fits the needs well and could also allow for us to move Uggla if we can find takers.

I just don’t know that I want the Braves to move anything. I am 100% behind getting players that have proven themselves instead of hoarding prospects, but the market is serious nuts right now. With Victorino getting $13 million and Pagan $10 .. thats just nuts. Maybe the trade market is a little better, because the OF FA market is just stupid right now.

I thought the Braves overpaid by Upton, but looking at the rest of these salaries I think the Braves got a steal with Upton. Only $2 million more per year than Victorino .. are you kidding me? Wow. The Braves moving quickly on Upton might have saved them a couple million because the rest of these prices woul have driven him up I think.

Peter R.

December 6th, 2012
12:02 am

We would be talking business if the Braves got Alex Gordon. If the Braves give Big Juan a bunch of playing time, then we may wind up leading the league in strike outs. But, he does have a ton of pop, if he learns to hit left hand pitchers then the Braves are gonna be in the money. Then why make the trade? LF is supposed to a productive position on the team. Juan’s numbers against LFs improved in the winter league, I see. Good sign there! Do the math, 9 hrs in roughly 200 plate appearances. Maybe if he gets 450 – he hits 20? His numbers might look a bit better if he wasn’t used as a sub all the time. Here’s his slash line as a starter: .262 BA .293 OBP .497 SLUG .790. Looks good to me. Gotta work on the walks though. Those numbers are probably mostly against right handed pitchers though – so they’re probably somewhat skewed. Maybe .245-.260 best case scenario in a full season?

Brandon

December 6th, 2012
12:02 am

@tmc – you are completely undervaluing walden. He was an all star closer in 2011 with 32 saves. He has a career 3.06 ERA in 114.2 innings and averaging close to 11 strikeouts per nine innings. He is another guy that can touch 100 mph from the pen. He is roughly a year younger than hanson. There are a lot of positives.

Hanson had went completely in a different direction. Shoulder injuries, decline in velocity, too many homers given up, way too many steals allowed,etc., arbitration eligible, Scott Boras client, and he was blocking teheran and delgado

It makes sense why Wren made the move and i think it was a very solid trade

tmc

December 6th, 2012
12:04 am

what bothers me about Frank Wren is in a year were you lose chipper, Bourn and your only healthy catcher (d.Ross). The last two because of money…
you pay Brian McCann 13 mil and you waaay over pay BJ Upton in center field. And we still need I left fielder and and some bench.

all this in a very poor free agent year. Seems like there wasn’t any forecasting going on preparing for this situation.

tmc

December 6th, 2012
12:04 am

what bothers me about Frank Wren is in a year were you lose chipper, Bourn and your only healthy catcher (d.Ross). The last two because of money…
you pay Brian McCann 13 mil and you waaay over pay BJ Upton in center field. And we still need I left fielder and and some bench.

all this in a very poor free agent year. Seems like there wasn’t any forecasting going on preparing for this situation.

tmc

December 6th, 2012
12:04 am

what bothers me about Frank Wren is in a year were you lose chipper, Bourn and your only healthy catcher (d.Ross). The last two because of money…
you pay Brian McCann 13 mil and you waaay over pay BJ Upton in center field. And we still need I left fielder and and some bench.

all this in a very poor free agent year. Seems like there wasn’t any forecasting going on preparing for this situation.

Spud

December 6th, 2012
12:07 am

MLB.com has posted that Boston will keep Ellsbury and met with Josh Hamilton today. I hope the Braves steer clear of any Boras client that is close to free agency.

jbill

December 6th, 2012
12:07 am

Hell no to Ellsbury..hurt all the time and Boras agent plus Boston wants Fort Knox for him. A one year joke.

the Frediot

December 6th, 2012
12:09 am

You feel like I am not first!

tmc

December 6th, 2012
12:11 am

Brandon- I hope you’re right and I do understand Hanson and his decline, but I just think we got very little in return.

Brandon

December 6th, 2012
12:12 am

Napoli batted .227 and got a 3 year 39 million dollar contract

McCann is younger and has had the better career. His numbers last year were obviously a result of injury. To me, its simply the market. Not many catcher options out there and if we can get a healthy mccann back, i think it is well worth the risk of 1 year 12 mil. McCann likely walks next year anyways

Bourn only batted .225 in the second half with 81 strikeouts in that time. I don’t feel like money was the only issue in not re-signing bourn. I am one that believes that upton will serve us better than bourn

I hated to see David Ross go, but laird seems to be the 2nd best option

jbill

December 6th, 2012
12:14 am

Walden will be great..bet on it.

Brandon

December 6th, 2012
12:14 am

tmc – i hope I’m right too haha nice talking baseball with you

tmc

December 6th, 2012
12:18 am

Seems like we could have packaged Hanson and one or both pitching prospect and got LF and a reliever. Teams are dying for good pitching.

Rick C

December 6th, 2012
12:22 am

tmc, Hanson received generous run support this year. And he hasn’t won more than three games in the second half since his rookie year. He may have once been a top pitching prospect and he had a couple years of success, but he has not been very effective since the first half of 2011. You can’t expect to get much back. And honestly I think the Braves got the best of that trade. Hanson has more upside but a lot riskier.

jbill

December 6th, 2012
12:25 am

agree..RickC

tmc

December 6th, 2012
12:28 am

Rick- I think it’s a classic case of covetting someone else’s players. We don’t think of Hanson being that great because we have a lot of pitching. if Hansen get’s it together the Angels benefit. and you do realize the reliever we got had shoulder injuries last year right?

Rick C

December 6th, 2012
12:40 am

tmc, no I don’t think of Hanson being that great because he hasn’t even been average the last season and a half. I don’t expect him to get it together either. He’s been gradually declining, losing both control and velocity. I’m well aware of Walden’s injuries, but he’s less risky in that he’s a reliever and is making ML minimum. Delgado actually put up better stats than Hanson last year and he won’t cost $4 MM. For a team with a payroll like the Braves’, the move made sense. The Angels can afford to take on the risk with Hanson.

2hotscott

December 6th, 2012
1:13 am

I would take Frenchy’s 73 doubles, 36 homers, 136 RBIs, and 7.5 mill salary for next over what some of these guys (Napoli) are getting paid next year. Napoli has 34 doubles, 54 homers and 131 RBIS over the last two seasons and will be paid 13 mill to play out of position in Boston.

Dav

December 6th, 2012
1:28 am

I didn’t think the Braves would do much after signing B.J Upton to $15M per year. I think they are willing to go to spring training with who they have plus a couple of bench players. Shafer and Conztana and Gattis can cover LF in the spring training games and we use Francisco at 3rd if Prado needs to go back to LF. We always have the possibility of trades later

David O'Brien

December 6th, 2012
2:17 am

Hey DOB, I don’t understand the rational for this; “The Braves might also have interest in Boston’s Jacoby Ellsbury, but his price in a trade would be high, especially since he’s only one season from free agency and is represented by Scott Boras.”
If he ,(Ellsbury), is one season away from being a FA, and his agent is Boras, which historically means he will be going to another team, why would the price be high?
Spud

You read that differently than I wrote it. My intent was to say that his price is high given that he’s a one-year rental rep’d be Boras. In other words, the price in terms of talent in return would be high regardless, but given that he’s only going to be a one-year rental that price will seem particularly high for teams that don’t want to give up that much for a one-year rental.

StarFan62

December 6th, 2012
3:56 am

Frank Wren: 3 team deal. Teheran and Pastornicky to Texas for Elvis Andrus, who they need to get rid of to make room for their stud SS prospect this season, plus cash. Send Simmons to Arizona for Justin Upton, who could hit leadoff: good OBP. Then we would have a solid outfield Andrus back: All star SS with practically no errors. Top offense to go with great pitching. Look out Nationals!

StarFan62

December 6th, 2012
4:05 am

The SS I mentioned for Texas is Jurickson Profar, the Rangers number one prospect, who was called up in September. They want him to take over in 2013 ( I heard it on MLB network this week ) but he is being blocked by Andrus. They only have control of Andrus for two more years, so they might move him this year, dump some salary, and open the door for the phenom. I’d love to have Elvis in the house again. Go get him Wren … and Go Braves!

mid wicket

December 6th, 2012
4:37 am

tmc – From what I read, Walden had a bicep injury not shoulder- BIG difference!
Also, I like what Wren is doing, being patient isn’t the worst thing in the world. The asking prices for these marginal guys in trade proposals is much too high.

“Least of the East”— You asked why the Braves couldn’t afford Nate Sheirholtz who signed a one year deal with the Cubbies for $2.25M. Answer = He turned down more money on a two year deal. He went to the Cubs because they offered him more at bats next year…. sometimes it isn’t always the most money that wins.

mid wicket

December 6th, 2012
4:41 am

Star Fan – The Rangers have said they wont move Elvis even for Upton, so I doubt they move him for Teheran and Pstornicky. That is why they are moving into the 3/4 team trade with the Indians to use Asdrubel as the shortstop to go to the Dbacks.

StarFan62

December 6th, 2012
5:01 am

Actually, I think Andrus should bat leadoff if we can get him back.

Also, this was Jim Bowden on the Andrus situation:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4894103/gm-expects-andrus-to-be-with-rangers-in-2013

StarFan62

December 6th, 2012
5:15 am

mid wicket: All I’m saying is if Texas is willing to part with Andrus for Upton, then Upton must be an asset. Texas could use pitching; they always need pitching in the AL. Their biggest concern is keeping Josh Hamilton and are waiting for that to play out. In the meantime, if Wren is sly enough, we could get Andrus for Teheran and somebody, and then get Upton for Simmons. Atlanta is better off with Justin Upton plus BJ Upton and Andrus than Simmons and the question mark in left field. But Wren needs to do this today!

M10

December 6th, 2012
5:48 am

At this pace the Braves are going to balk there a** out of the playoffs this season as well.

bring back blauser

December 6th, 2012
6:18 am

@m10………..remember the story of the young bull and the old bull….young bull says to old bull “let’s run down and get a cow” the old bull retorts ” let’s walk down and get them all” Wren is taking the advice of the old bull

The Grinch

December 6th, 2012
7:07 am

Using “you” and “we” in the same sentence to mean “I.” At least he makes sound in-game decisions. ;-)

bring back blauser

December 6th, 2012
7:45 am

my guess is that the Braves are going to give Todd Cunningham every opportunity to win the starting job in left field

dap01

December 6th, 2012
7:49 am

Don’t just spend to spend, don’t just trade to trade. If there is a great fit, make a deal. If not, let’s play Juan for 1/2 or a year. By that time Gattis will be ready to atleast split time in LF or Catcher.

Iluvnutella

December 6th, 2012
7:52 am

cheap cheap cheap…Wren and Gonzo are evidence of that. Poor mngmnt in playoff game, team WASNT ready. Sad sad sad.

bring back blauser

December 6th, 2012
7:59 am

sorry lluvnutella, but Wren nor Fredi made that throwing error to second base, that was the next Braves hall of famer Chipper Jones, just to refresh your memory, Wren did not get the job as GM by being STUPID, he has a plan, and that does not mean jumping at every whim we as fans have, he weighs what is out there, looks at it and when he feels if fits our demands as a team he will act……….if he were to act on our whims as fans, he would not last long as GM. he will make the right moves at the right times

longtimefan

December 6th, 2012
8:13 am

Miami, Boston, Philly and Yankees showed what can happen when you throw money at big name FAs. They don’t always produce and hamstring your team with high-priced long term contracts. We have our big signing-BJ. Let’s see what some of our internal options can do-Francisco, Cunningham or Gattis. If one of them plays reasonable well we have more money to extend our rising stars. You have to build from the farm. If you don’t give these guys a chance to show what they can do you will never know. And please stop the trade Simmons talk.

JoeFan

December 6th, 2012
8:17 am

Really believe Wren is confortable going into spring training with some combination of Prado, Gattis and Francisco to fill LF and 3B. Maybe even Cunningham will rpove to be part of the solution, Either way its more interesting to watch this group than over trade for someone that may or may not fill the hole.

bring back blauser

December 6th, 2012
8:23 am

exactly JoeFan, if they did not look from within last spring we would not have known such a person as Andrelton Simmons was available, and how many remember when a kid named Rafael Furcal just happened to up and have a fantastic spring training, and never to this day ever looked back

Paddy

December 6th, 2012
8:28 am

longtimefan……..I. don’t believe Wren has ever said he would entertain trade talks for Simmons Where did that come from?

Gumbo

December 6th, 2012
8:33 am

75 million for BJ UPTON? UGH!!!

Samurai Squirrel

December 6th, 2012
8:35 am

Why do you guys keep proposing trades involving Tyler Pastornicky as one of the key pieces? No one wants him. Heck, if he was any good, the Braves would have him playing somewhere for them. You hear trade rumors circling other people’s star prospects, but you never hear Pastornicky as one of those CAN”T MISS kinda guys. Get realistic.

Spud

December 6th, 2012
8:35 am

Thanks for the reply DOB! I see what you mean, which coincides with my view. He would almost certainly be gone, so he’d have to come cheap, or the price would be high indeed.
I caught my rational/rationale typo too late in my earlier post!

Samurai Squirrel

December 6th, 2012
8:36 am

Next, you’re probably gonna propose the Braves trade Pastornicky straight up for Miguel Cabrera.

bring back blauser

December 6th, 2012
8:37 am

if I am not mistaken, noone ever heard of Francoeur, nor McCann before they were called up from double a ball, hard to keep secrets from real fans

Add your comment