Granderson and Gardner have been mentioned as available players on ESPN.com, we were on the list for Gardner as a possible fit. Since we need a leadoff man.
Granderson tho is a different story for us. Final year of his deal 15 million. So Yanks would have to include cash, but he is available cause they wanna get some salary off the books.
Given one doesn’t often hear the phrase, “Turner Field plays just like Fenway Park…”, I don’t see how this is the answer to our LF question. Especially at a projected 3/33 contract.
I will say this much, if Francisco is given any real chance to be the starting 3rd baseman next season, I will not watch many Braves games. Not saying that I don’t believe that Wren will get a LF’er via trade, just saying that I will lose all faith in this front office if Francisco is considered for the starting 3rd base job, or if Constanza is considered for the LF gig.
Honestly, we really don’t need a left fielder. We all want one, obviously, because it’s the offseason and we’re bored. I think any one of Gattis, Cunningham, or a platoon of Reed/whoever could get it done. I usually hate the idea of platoons and I’m one of the biggest “sign this player!” guys, but (even with Wren’s terrible moves of signing Uggla and Upton) our offense is good enough to score plenty of runs. I WOULD, however, like to see him use the remaining salary expense on Grienke. Even though there really isn’t room for him unless you deal both Delgado and Teheran. Those guys both are ready for their shot to stay in the bigs.
But I wouldn’t be too mad if they dealt for Meyers, either.
The Indians should be glad he didn’t accept, that would have been a horrible investment for a team nowhere near contention…. I mean why on earth? There talking about trading Choo and Cabrera and others but will offer that deal? Geez, Cody Ross should give em a call and see what they’ll offer him haha.
Why were the Twins so eager to dump Span? That franchise puzzles me…lets sink everything we got into Mauer (hope Wren was watching on what not to give a catcher)
–SportyNuts: Does anyone have a good understanding of what it would take to bring Myers to the Braves? Are we talking a package of top prospects like Teheran, Spruill, Gilmartin, Ahmed, and Cunningham. Or are we talking Medlen, Delgado, and Ahmed? I mean, does anyone have any clue as to what KC actually wants for their top prospect? Do other team GM’s even know KC’s requisites?–
I would like to know this as well. Why aren’t we even inquiring about the dude?
maybe Ross is still possible now that Red Sox signed Victorino. Braves never have enough money no matter who comes off the books. last year he signed for $3 mill, but now probably wants triple that after good year.
Ichiro is better than Costanza or Gattis. he hit well after deal to Yanks. i doubt he wants Atlanta though . i hope he isn’t friends wiht Kawakami.
when you draft pitchers constantly, you end up with no hitters. most of the top HS pitchers never make it so more college bats would ahve been smarter.
Ichiro!!!! Let’s get him! Would be a nice addition, and affordable. Veteran presence as well. I know we want to go young, but the guy is still a great lead off hitter, and has a few good years left in him, IMO. Pull the trigger Frank, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I heard the Lee Upton trade is BS, but that’d be scary for us. I think Justin is the superior Upton brother at the end of the day.
To clarify things, you can’t lose guys like Chipper, Rossy, and Hinske in the clubhouse and replace them with Francisco, Laird, and whoever they get to be a bench bat. Rossy and Hinske were not full time players, but they were a huge presence in the clubhouse, something that Francisco and Laird will not come close to touching.
You also can’t lose a Hall of Fame caliber 3rd baseman like Chipper and replace him with a guy like Francisco. If the Braves do this, they will be taking huge steps backwards in every aspect of the game, and how can anyone take this team serious if they do that?
The Braves won’t be able to replace Chipper no matter what they do, but sticking Prado over there who is a good defender, and a leader in the clubhouse is about as good as you are going to get to replacing Chipper. The Braves absolutely HAVE TO get a legit OF’er to play LF. If they don’t, they deserve to lose respect, and the fans approval.
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
One team guesstimated early in offseason that Victorino could be a good value buy at about $6-7 million on a one-year deal #explodingprices
Fredi Gonzalez is about the dumbest person I’ve ever heard speak. How on Earth did he luck up and land a MLB managerial job? I promise I’m not making this up when I say that one day last year I met a former Brave, who is now retired, who told me that Fredi is not respected in the clubhouse and is often the brunt of a lot of jokes. He told me that players question his knowledge of the game, or something like that.
I could easily just be lying, given this is the internet, but I can promise you I am not. I never liked Fredi, but after talking to this former player about him, I doubt I could ever give him the benefit of the doubt. Only reason he got the job was because he was a Bobby Brown-noser.
Its to the point where you are now going to have to pay 8 figure salaries per yr for almost any kind of every day player.
5 million gets you a bench guy.
What is 10 mil going to buy this winter — they want to bolster the bench and get a starting LF.
Its probably going to be a platoon of some kind.
Did I not say that many of us overrated our prospects and they would not bring back as much as Braves fans would like?????? Time will tell just how much of a return they will bring if they are traded.
No I am not. Why, because I state the obvious? So who in your mind can replace the clubhouse presence of Chipper, Ross, and Hinske? Who can replace Chipper on the field and in the lineup?
Nobody can, but you have to try your best to get as close as you can, giving a guy like Francisco a shot is not doing that at all. If that happens, it will truly show just how cheap, and ignorant Frank Wren really is.
Gold Glove Caliber LFer, who could also be a everyday 3rd baseman or 2nd baseman, while also having the ability to fill in at 1st base, Right Field, and even shortstop in a pinch.
Career 295 Hitter with a 780 OPS.
Coming off a season in which he played 156 games with 58 Extra Base Hits, 17 Stolen Bases, and having 58 walks to only 69 Ks. 301/359/438
Now compare him to the likes of Shane Victorino, BJ Upton, and Cody Ross. Safe to say Prado is a better “overall” hitter and OF defender than all of them.
Dude, Wren hasn’t even offered up our top prospects, as it’s readily apparent that he’s unwilling to do so. So, I’m not sure how you believe our prospects are “overrated” when in actuality, we could acquire just about anyone who’s being shopped with the amount of pitching talent we have.
December 4th, 2012
4:52 pm
Braves got their new Boscan — they signed catcher Matt Pagnozzi, 30, to a minor league deal. He’ll be Laird’s backup till McCann is ready.
*************************************************************
Thanks for new blog. I must have missed it, where did BOSCAN go? I did not know we lost him.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Prado, the guy is a team player. But he’s not a game changer, and I seriously doubt teams would offer him anything close to $75MM.
I would be surprised if the Braves would be able to get an Alex Gordon kind of player for what we have to trade.
I am not sying that none of em are going to be anything but its what they are worth right now. They have no done enough to bring in an outstanding ballplayer in my opinion. Not saying I am right.
I have no idea how other teams see Teheran, Gilmartin and Spurill. Delgado is the one guy I would not want to trade. I am sure other teams are asking.
Prado would be in very high demand, he would easily be the best 3rd base option in free agency while also being a LF/2B option. So many ways teams could view him and figuring out a free agency contract is tough but you’d have to imagine he would easily get more than Shane Victorino who is coming off a horrible season and signs of major decline in bat speed.
What do you want FW to say? Hey, we are striking out on getting a LF, but we will do everything in our power to get one because our internal options all suck and we will be screwed?
Of course he is publicly saying he is ok with the internal options. Heck, my son Tristan knows that’s not the case. He’s 2.
It never cease to amaze me at either how clueless some are when it comes to negotiating a trade or signing a free agent or just their desire to find something to complain about no matter how unintelligent it makes them look.
I either see Wren making a trade for someone we haven’t talked about much or we end up with in-house options with Reed and another good bench player being signed..
To add to what Disgusted said…nah, it doesn’t need any adding to. Forget Gordon’s OBP, his WAR, and the fact that he won a gold glove. No need to add those on…
@JasonInFL: If Wren’s comments are being viewed in this manner on this blog, then how in the world would other GM’s not look at in the same way. Why put up some charade when everyone knows you’re playing hard to get? Doesn’t make sense.
December 4th, 2012
7:21 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I love Prado, the guy is a team player. But he’s not a game changer, and I seriously doubt teams would offer him anything close to $75MM.
****************************
But at that price I would take PRADO over BJ UPTON 365 days a year.
Frank Wren says if the #Braves don’t trade for or sign a FA, they feel like Francisco, Constanza & Gattis could fill role
Do not buy that at all. They aren’t going into 2013 with a payroll of around $83 million – $10 million less than they spent in 2012. Again, move the bonuses and incentives around all you want – still doesn’t get you anywhere near $93.5 million and that would raise enough questions that would need some sort of answering.
Most likely, Wren doesn’t like the prices currently for players like Shin Soo Choo(Teheran or Delgado, trying to push Spruill types).
It’s not really charades. Not much else to say really. He’s not going to alienate his current set of scrubs in the event he is stuck with them. Of course other execs know he wants a LF…that’s why he has probably talked to every GM out there. Nothing good could come out of him saying his current options suck.
@Va, you are probably right. What there may be a move for a player that someone on here has not proposed. No way, we all know every conversation Wren is having with players’ agents and other teams. .. no there was no hint of sarcasm there. (not directed at you va)
Fredi Gonzalez is about the dumbest person I’ve ever heard speak. How on Earth did he luck up and land a MLB managerial job? I promise I’m not making this up when I say that one day last year I met a former Brave, who is now retired, who told me that Fredi is not respected in the clubhouse and is often the brunt of a lot of jokes. He told me that players question his knowledge of the game, or something like that.
I could easily just be lying, given this is the internet, but I can promise you I am not. I never liked Fredi, but after talking to this former player about him, I doubt I could ever give him the benefit of the doubt. Only reason he got the job was because he was a Bobby Brown-noser.
The interesting thing is that even though we are not landing any of our big fish–Upton, Gordon, Myers, Choo–NO ONE ELSE IS LANDING THEM EITHER.
At some point, one of the selling teams is going to blink, and a deal will get made with someone. Wren has just decided he’s not going to buy from the discount store. He’s going to sit and wait for the brand name store to blink and lower prices.
Is Wren looking for a high OBP lead off type? Or a slugger? Or is he looking at unproven but high upside players? Having Martin Prado gives him that flexibility, cause he’s a solid lead off option if it comes to it.
Even if you dislike Keith Law, you have to like this write up:
Victorino’s deal doomed to fail
Shane Victorino’s three-year, $39 million contract with the Boston Red Sox vaults to the top of the ranking of the worst contracts signed so far this offseason, giving him virtually the same total dollars that Angel Pagan — a superior player — will receive in a contract that’s a year longer.
The Sox have now squandered a substantial amount of the payroll flexibility they obtained over the summer when they traded Adrian Gonzalez to the Los Angeles Dodgers just to rid themselves of two awful contracts, yet they have little to show for their recent spending spree.
Victorino is a platoon outfielder at this point, and paying him $13 million a year, even with the rapid salary escalation we’re seeing this offseason, is mad as pants. His bat speed was noticeably slower in 2012, especially later in the season, and despite being a switch-hitter he doesn’t really hit right-handed pitching:
Against RHP
2012: .230/.295/.332
2011: .271/.333/.456
2010: .235/.306/.386
That’s a .244/.311/.390 composite line over 1,388 plate appearances, and at age 32 he’s extremely unlikely to suddenly learn how to hit from the left side. Victorino delivers the bulk of his value in the 150 or so plate appearances he gets against left-handed pitching each year, and should be platooned against most right-handers, which means the Red Sox just paid $13 million a year for the equivalent of a fourth outfielder.
Victorino remains a good defensive outfielder, more due to his above-average arm and his foot speed than good reads on balls hit to him in center, and he can add value on the bases because he reads pitchers well, even though overall his instincts for the game are poor. He could handle center for a year if the Red Sox chose to trade Jacoby Ellsbury and wanted to give top prospect Jackie Bradley Jr. another full season in the minors before promoting him, and then slide to right or left, with Ryan Kalish in the other corner if he can stay healthy. But if Victorino plays mostly right field, he’ll face a higher offensive standard, and they’ll likely find themselves looking for a platoon partner for him sooner rather than later, while wondering what better values were available for the money they gave him.
Meanwhile, the Philadelphia Phillies are the team most in need of a center fielder and their former farmhand Michael Bourn is the only major center fielder left on the market, so there should be room for a deal there, unless the team chooses to sign Josh Hamilton and hope he can hold up in center, or try to swing a trade for Ellsbury using their few remaining young assets, like Domonic Brown, Vance Worley, or Trevor May.
The Giants won the World Series with Gregor Blanco in left field. He’s a prototypical AAAA player. He never won a batting title like Constanza, and he doesn’t wow people with his hitting like Gattis. So it’s not imperative that we land a big name in RF. That being said, Cody Ross would be a reasonable fit if the Braves can afford him.
DOBerino,
With all these backup catcher signings, do you still see Bethancourt getting a shot at opening the season as Laird’s primary backup? — Comfortably Dumb
4,816 comments Add your comment
VaBravesFan
December 4th, 2012
6:53 pm
Granderson and Gardner have been mentioned as available players on ESPN.com, we were on the list for Gardner as a possible fit. Since we need a leadoff man.
Granderson tho is a different story for us. Final year of his deal 15 million. So Yanks would have to include cash, but he is available cause they wanna get some salary off the books.
David O'Brien
December 4th, 2012
6:54 pm
I’m told Braves aren’t one of the four teams in the proposed deal Buster is reporting.
Lee in S GA
December 4th, 2012
6:54 pm
Frank Wren says if the #Braves don’t trade for or sign a FA, they feel like Francisco, Constanza & Gattis could fill role
————————————————
yeah…that even sounds like a 3rd or 4th place finish…….
RJB in DC
December 4th, 2012
6:55 pm
For all those pining over Cody Ross, check his home/away splits for 2012.
2012 130 games
Home .298 .356 .565 .921 13 HR
Away .232 .294 .390 .684 09 HR
Given one doesn’t often hear the phrase, “Turner Field plays just like Fenway Park…”, I don’t see how this is the answer to our LF question. Especially at a projected 3/33 contract.
Brava
December 4th, 2012
6:55 pm
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #Indians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox.
Fols
December 4th, 2012
6:56 pm
Bourn wasn’t scoring runs because Uggla wasn’t driving him home?
huh?
What about the 6 guys batting in-between those two?
Murph
December 4th, 2012
6:57 pm
Sportsmanship is alive on the blog.
I self-reported and took my penalty strokes.
Nobody will remember that… they’ll look up your stats and see that you came in 7th and call for you to be traded as you are not a “premium” blogger.
Have fun in Cleveland.
BFChris28
December 4th, 2012
6:57 pm
Even though I’d like to get Justin Upton, I’m starting to move on away from him.
Right now, realistically I see Cody Ross or someone of his ilk coming to Atlanta via trade or FA.
Yuuup
December 4th, 2012
6:58 pm
I will say this much, if Francisco is given any real chance to be the starting 3rd baseman next season, I will not watch many Braves games. Not saying that I don’t believe that Wren will get a LF’er via trade, just saying that I will lose all faith in this front office if Francisco is considered for the starting 3rd base job, or if Constanza is considered for the LF gig.
Comfortably Dumb
December 4th, 2012
6:58 pm
Honestly, we really don’t need a left fielder. We all want one, obviously, because it’s the offseason and we’re bored. I think any one of Gattis, Cunningham, or a platoon of Reed/whoever could get it done. I usually hate the idea of platoons and I’m one of the biggest “sign this player!” guys, but (even with Wren’s terrible moves of signing Uggla and Upton) our offense is good enough to score plenty of runs. I WOULD, however, like to see him use the remaining salary expense on Grienke. Even though there really isn’t room for him unless you deal both Delgado and Teheran. Those guys both are ready for their shot to stay in the bigs.
But I wouldn’t be too mad if they dealt for Meyers, either.
Brava
December 4th, 2012
6:58 pm
Kevin McAlpin @KevinMcAlpin
Juan Francisco is hitting .309 (29-for-94) with 4 HR and 17 RBI in 25 games for Licey in the Dominican Republic. #Braves
Murph
December 4th, 2012
6:59 pm
I’m told Braves aren’t one of the four teams in the proposed deal Buster is reporting.
Of course not.
Gonna be an interesting ST battle between Francisco and Gattis with poor Prado stuck in the middle.
Forget about signing Prado to an extension… he’s gonna go someplace where he doesn’t have to play 5 different positions in a week.
But hey, at least we now can count minor league catchers as an organizational strength.
VaBravesFan
December 4th, 2012
6:59 pm
The Indians should be glad he didn’t accept, that would have been a horrible investment for a team nowhere near contention…. I mean why on earth? There talking about trading Choo and Cabrera and others but will offer that deal? Geez, Cody Ross should give em a call and see what they’ll offer him haha.
Fols
December 4th, 2012
7:00 pm
DOB
Why were the Twins so eager to dump Span? That franchise puzzles me…lets sink everything we got into Mauer (hope Wren was watching on what not to give a catcher)
Mark
December 4th, 2012
7:00 pm
Yeah lets pencil in Flabcisco at 3rd and we’ll set the freakin MLB record for Ks!
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:00 pm
Old habits die hard. Still can’t just come out and say when Chipper threw the game away.
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:00 pm
Chipper Jones @RealCJ10
Thx to MLB. com and the fans, for the Gibby award for best walk-off of 2012. That was my last homer, so it was special in many diff ways!
Comfortably Dumb
December 4th, 2012
7:00 pm
NO TO GRANDERSON! His power is undoubtedly inflated from Yankee Stadium, and he would be yes ANOTHER .240 hitting 160K hitter.
Comfortably Dumb
December 4th, 2012
7:01 pm
Fols….Revere.
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:01 pm
Blog working much faster due to it be a new one. Not 60 pages long like the last Daily.
ryan
December 4th, 2012
7:02 pm
It sound like the Braves are not making a splash same old Braves .
David O'Brien
December 4th, 2012
7:02 pm
Braves not bringing back Diaz, hope to have Reed Johnson back. He’s interested, but also going to see what other offers out there before deciding…
Wren said January is probably when possible long-terms extensions for arb players or other young players might be discussed, not now.
VaBravesFan
December 4th, 2012
7:02 pm
Imagine if Martin Prado was a free agent…. If Victorino can get 3 years 39 million… Prado should be able to get 5 years 65 million.
ButtermilkTuesdays
December 4th, 2012
7:03 pm
–SportyNuts: Does anyone have a good understanding of what it would take to bring Myers to the Braves? Are we talking a package of top prospects like Teheran, Spruill, Gilmartin, Ahmed, and Cunningham. Or are we talking Medlen, Delgado, and Ahmed? I mean, does anyone have any clue as to what KC actually wants for their top prospect? Do other team GM’s even know KC’s requisites?–
I would like to know this as well. Why aren’t we even inquiring about the dude?
old man
December 4th, 2012
7:03 pm
Theory:
The “dormant” 4 way deal DID involve us getting Justin Upton without giving up Simmons. Somebody on the deal was being cheap, holding it up.
AZ floated the Cliff Lee rumor to stir the pot, get the cheap GM to pony up.
Plausible?
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:03 pm
Thanks for the new blog and good info about the pen.
Bravoman
December 4th, 2012
7:04 pm
Blah Blah Blah something about our team sucks in early December.
Patience padawans. Wren will get a left fielder and resign Reed Johnson or someone similar.
old man
December 4th, 2012
7:05 pm
My bad, did not see DOB’s note on the 4 way. Ignore my last post. Please.
least of the east
December 4th, 2012
7:06 pm
maybe Ross is still possible now that Red Sox signed Victorino. Braves never have enough money no matter who comes off the books. last year he signed for $3 mill, but now probably wants triple that after good year.
Ichiro is better than Costanza or Gattis. he hit well after deal to Yanks. i doubt he wants Atlanta though . i hope he isn’t friends wiht Kawakami.
when you draft pitchers constantly, you end up with no hitters. most of the top HS pitchers never make it so more college bats would ahve been smarter.
ChipperisGod
December 4th, 2012
7:06 pm
Ichiro!!!! Let’s get him! Would be a nice addition, and affordable. Veteran presence as well. I know we want to go young, but the guy is still a great lead off hitter, and has a few good years left in him, IMO. Pull the trigger Frank, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I heard the Lee Upton trade is BS, but that’d be scary for us. I think Justin is the superior Upton brother at the end of the day.
Yuuup
December 4th, 2012
7:06 pm
To clarify things, you can’t lose guys like Chipper, Rossy, and Hinske in the clubhouse and replace them with Francisco, Laird, and whoever they get to be a bench bat. Rossy and Hinske were not full time players, but they were a huge presence in the clubhouse, something that Francisco and Laird will not come close to touching.
You also can’t lose a Hall of Fame caliber 3rd baseman like Chipper and replace him with a guy like Francisco. If the Braves do this, they will be taking huge steps backwards in every aspect of the game, and how can anyone take this team serious if they do that?
The Braves won’t be able to replace Chipper no matter what they do, but sticking Prado over there who is a good defender, and a leader in the clubhouse is about as good as you are going to get to replacing Chipper. The Braves absolutely HAVE TO get a legit OF’er to play LF. If they don’t, they deserve to lose respect, and the fans approval.
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:06 pm
Pen is for sure a great strength.
MFin04
December 4th, 2012
7:06 pm
“Prado should be able to get 5 years 65 million”
Umm…if BJ Upton could get 5/75, Prado could get AT LEAST that. BJ Upton is still the 3rd best outfielder on the CURRENT Braves.
VaBravesFan
December 4th, 2012
7:06 pm
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
One team guesstimated early in offseason that Victorino could be a good value buy at about $6-7 million on a one-year deal #explodingprices
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:08 pm
It was time for SKI to move on but his leadership will be missed.
ryan
December 4th, 2012
7:08 pm
So whats the deal are the Braves getting Justin Upton or has that ship sailed .
ButtermilkTuesdays
December 4th, 2012
7:09 pm
MFin04: Prado would be lucky to get 40MM for 5 years. He’s a glorified utility man.
Murph
December 4th, 2012
7:09 pm
I’d rather go with Gattis/Francisco than go with Cody Ross. The guy doesn’t belong in ATL.
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:09 pm
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
Greinke market isn’t speeding up yet. Teams looking ahead at the 2013-14 FA class and wondering whether makes sense to spend now on Greinke.
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:09 pm
Is Yuuup double George??
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:10 pm
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
The best of the Class of 2013-14: Josh Johnson, Tim Lincecum, Adam Wainwright, Matt Garza, R.A. Dickey. Question marks abound.
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:11 pm
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
The 2014-15 class is an absolute bonanza: Verlander, Felix, Kershaw, Shields, Lester. Next to nobody expects first three to hit the market.
Fols
December 4th, 2012
7:11 pm
I wouldn’t be that upset with Cody Ross but lets just say I wouldn’t buy his player T
Comfortably Dumb
December 4th, 2012
7:11 pm
Fredi Gonzalez is about the dumbest person I’ve ever heard speak. How on Earth did he luck up and land a MLB managerial job? I promise I’m not making this up when I say that one day last year I met a former Brave, who is now retired, who told me that Fredi is not respected in the clubhouse and is often the brunt of a lot of jokes. He told me that players question his knowledge of the game, or something like that.
I could easily just be lying, given this is the internet, but I can promise you I am not. I never liked Fredi, but after talking to this former player about him, I doubt I could ever give him the benefit of the doubt. Only reason he got the job was because he was a Bobby Brown-noser.
BravePack(FreeFan)
December 4th, 2012
7:11 pm
Well at least we got a BJ out of all of this teasing.
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:12 pm
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
And Roy Halladay, as @magelb reminds me. Halladay’s option almost assuredly will not vest, which makes him a free agent after this season.
Disgusted
December 4th, 2012
7:12 pm
Its to the point where you are now going to have to pay 8 figure salaries per yr for almost any kind of every day player.
5 million gets you a bench guy.
What is 10 mil going to buy this winter — they want to bolster the bench and get a starting LF.
Its probably going to be a platoon of some kind.
Did I not say that many of us overrated our prospects and they would not bring back as much as Braves fans would like?????? Time will tell just how much of a return they will bring if they are traded.
Comfortably Dumb
December 4th, 2012
7:13 pm
ButtermilkTuesdays….you deserver a cyber slap for that.
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:13 pm
A new blog makes all things right.
Yuuup
December 4th, 2012
7:14 pm
Nowhere Man,
No I am not. Why, because I state the obvious? So who in your mind can replace the clubhouse presence of Chipper, Ross, and Hinske? Who can replace Chipper on the field and in the lineup?
Nobody can, but you have to try your best to get as close as you can, giving a guy like Francisco a shot is not doing that at all. If that happens, it will truly show just how cheap, and ignorant Frank Wren really is.
VaBravesFan
December 4th, 2012
7:14 pm
If Prado was a free agent, here’s a profile.
Prado, 29 years old.
Gold Glove Caliber LFer, who could also be a everyday 3rd baseman or 2nd baseman, while also having the ability to fill in at 1st base, Right Field, and even shortstop in a pinch.
Career 295 Hitter with a 780 OPS.
Coming off a season in which he played 156 games with 58 Extra Base Hits, 17 Stolen Bases, and having 58 walks to only 69 Ks. 301/359/438
Now compare him to the likes of Shane Victorino, BJ Upton, and Cody Ross. Safe to say Prado is a better “overall” hitter and OF defender than all of them.
Disgusted
December 4th, 2012
7:15 pm
BJ is a bargain compared to what Victorino got.
And then there is Mike Napoli — nice piece of the puzzle but 13 mil per for a guy who gets 350 to 400 AB’s.
They both might or might not be worth it but I am glad we got BJ and his speed and power. Might be the bargain of the winter.
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:15 pm
Two things about Fredi remain the same he never played in the Majors and hasn’t won a playoff game as a manager.
ButtermilkTuesdays
December 4th, 2012
7:16 pm
Dude, Wren hasn’t even offered up our top prospects, as it’s readily apparent that he’s unwilling to do so. So, I’m not sure how you believe our prospects are “overrated” when in actuality, we could acquire just about anyone who’s being shopped with the amount of pitching talent we have.
Disgusted
December 4th, 2012
7:16 pm
“The best of the Class of 2013-14: Josh Johnson, Tim Lincecum, Adam Wainwright, Matt Garza, R.A. Dickey. Question marks abound.”
For what those guys wil ask for I say Pass.
Joe Nuxall
December 4th, 2012
7:17 pm
Lots of discussion brings lots of food for thought. Choo on this!
Nowhere man
December 4th, 2012
7:17 pm
Yuuup you are right.
Comfortably Dumb
December 4th, 2012
7:19 pm
No, I agree with trying giving up one of Delgado/Teheran for Meyers.
But calling Prado a “glorified utility player” is blasphemy.
George_George
December 4th, 2012
7:21 pm
David O’Brien
December 4th, 2012
4:52 pm
Braves got their new Boscan — they signed catcher Matt Pagnozzi, 30, to a minor league deal. He’ll be Laird’s backup till McCann is ready.
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Thanks for new blog. I must have missed it, where did BOSCAN go? I did not know we lost him.
ButtermilkTuesdays
December 4th, 2012
7:21 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I love Prado, the guy is a team player. But he’s not a game changer, and I seriously doubt teams would offer him anything close to $75MM.
Disgusted
December 4th, 2012
7:22 pm
I would be surprised if the Braves would be able to get an Alex Gordon kind of player for what we have to trade.
I am not sying that none of em are going to be anything but its what they are worth right now. They have no done enough to bring in an outstanding ballplayer in my opinion. Not saying I am right.
I have no idea how other teams see Teheran, Gilmartin and Spurill. Delgado is the one guy I would not want to trade. I am sure other teams are asking.
VaBravesFan
December 4th, 2012
7:25 pm
Prado would be in very high demand, he would easily be the best 3rd base option in free agency while also being a LF/2B option. So many ways teams could view him and figuring out a free agency contract is tough but you’d have to imagine he would easily get more than Shane Victorino who is coming off a horrible season and signs of major decline in bat speed.
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:25 pm
Boscan signed on with the Cubs, George.
George_George
December 4th, 2012
7:25 pm
Brava does great job passing tweets on to us. Thank you.
George_George
December 4th, 2012
7:27 pm
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:25 pm
Thank you.
JasonInFL
December 4th, 2012
7:27 pm
What do you want FW to say? Hey, we are striking out on getting a LF, but we will do everything in our power to get one because our internal options all suck and we will be screwed?
Of course he is publicly saying he is ok with the internal options. Heck, my son Tristan knows that’s not the case. He’s 2.
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:28 pm
Thank you, George, and you’re welcome.
Disgusted
December 4th, 2012
7:28 pm
Old Man @ 6:10 —-
Gattis and Gordon are no comparison — Gordon is major league .
Gattis is a questionable 26 yr old might be prospect. I have to se alot of him before I take him seriously.
Ray
December 4th, 2012
7:28 pm
It never cease to amaze me at either how clueless some are when it comes to negotiating a trade or signing a free agent or just their desire to find something to complain about no matter how unintelligent it makes them look.
JasonInFL
December 4th, 2012
7:28 pm
Nice, first blog I am back on in months and I make the top 10.
VaBravesFan
December 4th, 2012
7:29 pm
I either see Wren making a trade for someone we haven’t talked about much or we end up with in-house options with Reed and another good bench player being signed..
JasonInFL
December 4th, 2012
7:30 pm
To add to what Disgusted said…nah, it doesn’t need any adding to. Forget Gordon’s OBP, his WAR, and the fact that he won a gold glove. No need to add those on…
SportyNuts
December 4th, 2012
7:31 pm
@JasonInFL: If Wren’s comments are being viewed in this manner on this blog, then how in the world would other GM’s not look at in the same way. Why put up some charade when everyone knows you’re playing hard to get? Doesn’t make sense.
Disgusted
December 4th, 2012
7:31 pm
Of course the average fan is clueless when it comes to player personell moves whether it be a trade or FA.
With this market no one really knows what anyone is worth unless you are really on the inside of the business of the game.
This is one of the most dynamic off seasons I remember — the price is going up that is all I really know.
RJB in DC
December 4th, 2012
7:31 pm
Gotta wonder what Prado will be thinking come January when Wren wants to discuss extensions…
George_George
December 4th, 2012
7:32 pm
ButtermilkTuesdays
December 4th, 2012
7:21 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I love Prado, the guy is a team player. But he’s not a game changer, and I seriously doubt teams would offer him anything close to $75MM.
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But at that price I would take PRADO over BJ UPTON 365 days a year.
Bat Masterson
December 4th, 2012
7:32 pm
Arkansas gets Bielema
Sounds horrible. Get well soon.
BFChris28
December 4th, 2012
7:33 pm
Perhaps with Billy Hamilton switching to CF, if Wren may give Reds a call about Drew Stubbs. He could lead off and play LF.
Disgusted
December 4th, 2012
7:33 pm
If we get Gordon the talent will be there to win it all.
He is one heck of a ballplayer. If you get him for prospects than go for it.
Efrim
December 4th, 2012
7:33 pm
Frank Wren says if the #Braves don’t trade for or sign a FA, they feel like Francisco, Constanza & Gattis could fill role
Do not buy that at all. They aren’t going into 2013 with a payroll of around $83 million – $10 million less than they spent in 2012. Again, move the bonuses and incentives around all you want – still doesn’t get you anywhere near $93.5 million and that would raise enough questions that would need some sort of answering.
Most likely, Wren doesn’t like the prices currently for players like Shin Soo Choo(Teheran or Delgado, trying to push Spruill types).
ButtermilkTuesdays
December 4th, 2012
7:33 pm
You’re not considering Upton’s upside.
JasonInFL
December 4th, 2012
7:34 pm
It’s not really charades. Not much else to say really. He’s not going to alienate his current set of scrubs in the event he is stuck with them. Of course other execs know he wants a LF…that’s why he has probably talked to every GM out there. Nothing good could come out of him saying his current options suck.
Ray
December 4th, 2012
7:34 pm
@Va, you are probably right. What there may be a move for a player that someone on here has not proposed. No way, we all know every conversation Wren is having with players’ agents and other teams. .. no there was no hint of sarcasm there. (not directed at you va)
BravePack(FreeFan)
December 4th, 2012
7:37 pm
Fredi Gonzalez is about the dumbest person I’ve ever heard speak. How on Earth did he luck up and land a MLB managerial job? I promise I’m not making this up when I say that one day last year I met a former Brave, who is now retired, who told me that Fredi is not respected in the clubhouse and is often the brunt of a lot of jokes. He told me that players question his knowledge of the game, or something like that.
I could easily just be lying, given this is the internet, but I can promise you I am not. I never liked Fredi, but after talking to this former player about him, I doubt I could ever give him the benefit of the doubt. Only reason he got the job was because he was a Bobby Brown-noser.
Tell us something we don’t already know.
SportyNuts
December 4th, 2012
7:38 pm
@JasonInFL: Yeah, I see what you’re getting at.
BFChris28
December 4th, 2012
7:38 pm
1. Drew Stubbs LF
2. Martin Prado 3B
3. Jason Heyward RF
4. BJ Upton CF
5. Freddie Freeman 1B
6. Dan Uggla 2B
7. Brian McCann C
8. Andrelton Simmons SS
Plausible?
old man
December 4th, 2012
7:39 pm
The interesting thing is that even though we are not landing any of our big fish–Upton, Gordon, Myers, Choo–NO ONE ELSE IS LANDING THEM EITHER.
At some point, one of the selling teams is going to blink, and a deal will get made with someone. Wren has just decided he’s not going to buy from the discount store. He’s going to sit and wait for the brand name store to blink and lower prices.
Couch Tater
December 4th, 2012
7:39 pm
Blog does seem to refresh quicker. I’m no IT guy, but the SEC Championship and Black Friday ads probably bogged the whole system down.
old man
December 4th, 2012
7:41 pm
Drew Stubbs? Really?
Brava
December 4th, 2012
7:41 pm
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN
The Red Sox have made three free agent signings so far without having to sacrifice a draft pick — as is their hope.
JasonInFL
December 4th, 2012
7:42 pm
That and the 60 pages of comments
nolie
December 4th, 2012
7:42 pm
Prado scored a 100 the one year he led off for us, no excuses for Bourn.
BFChris28
December 4th, 2012
7:44 pm
old man
Just throwing ideas out there. Not saying it’d be ideal or anything.
Efrim
December 4th, 2012
7:44 pm
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
The Red Sox have made three free agent signings so far without having to sacrifice a draft pick — as is their hope.
Draft picks? Who cares about those things? Surely not Frank Wren and co.
nolie
December 4th, 2012
7:46 pm
He’ll play different positions because he can and sometimes they’ll need him to. Lew
big difference between that and bouncing him back and forth like a pingpong ball depending on who starts each game for the other team.
VaBravesFan
December 4th, 2012
7:47 pm
Is Wren looking for a high OBP lead off type? Or a slugger? Or is he looking at unproven but high upside players? Having Martin Prado gives him that flexibility, cause he’s a solid lead off option if it comes to it.
Efrim
December 4th, 2012
7:48 pm
Even if you dislike Keith Law, you have to like this write up:
Victorino’s deal doomed to fail
Shane Victorino’s three-year, $39 million contract with the Boston Red Sox vaults to the top of the ranking of the worst contracts signed so far this offseason, giving him virtually the same total dollars that Angel Pagan — a superior player — will receive in a contract that’s a year longer.
The Sox have now squandered a substantial amount of the payroll flexibility they obtained over the summer when they traded Adrian Gonzalez to the Los Angeles Dodgers just to rid themselves of two awful contracts, yet they have little to show for their recent spending spree.
Victorino is a platoon outfielder at this point, and paying him $13 million a year, even with the rapid salary escalation we’re seeing this offseason, is mad as pants. His bat speed was noticeably slower in 2012, especially later in the season, and despite being a switch-hitter he doesn’t really hit right-handed pitching:
Against RHP
2012: .230/.295/.332
2011: .271/.333/.456
2010: .235/.306/.386
That’s a .244/.311/.390 composite line over 1,388 plate appearances, and at age 32 he’s extremely unlikely to suddenly learn how to hit from the left side. Victorino delivers the bulk of his value in the 150 or so plate appearances he gets against left-handed pitching each year, and should be platooned against most right-handers, which means the Red Sox just paid $13 million a year for the equivalent of a fourth outfielder.
Victorino remains a good defensive outfielder, more due to his above-average arm and his foot speed than good reads on balls hit to him in center, and he can add value on the bases because he reads pitchers well, even though overall his instincts for the game are poor. He could handle center for a year if the Red Sox chose to trade Jacoby Ellsbury and wanted to give top prospect Jackie Bradley Jr. another full season in the minors before promoting him, and then slide to right or left, with Ryan Kalish in the other corner if he can stay healthy. But if Victorino plays mostly right field, he’ll face a higher offensive standard, and they’ll likely find themselves looking for a platoon partner for him sooner rather than later, while wondering what better values were available for the money they gave him.
Meanwhile, the Philadelphia Phillies are the team most in need of a center fielder and their former farmhand Michael Bourn is the only major center fielder left on the market, so there should be room for a deal there, unless the team chooses to sign Josh Hamilton and hope he can hold up in center, or try to swing a trade for Ellsbury using their few remaining young assets, like Domonic Brown, Vance Worley, or Trevor May.
Bob the Blogger
December 4th, 2012
7:49 pm
The Giants won the World Series with Gregor Blanco in left field. He’s a prototypical AAAA player. He never won a batting title like Constanza, and he doesn’t wow people with his hitting like Gattis. So it’s not imperative that we land a big name in RF. That being said, Cody Ross would be a reasonable fit if the Braves can afford him.
nolie
December 4th, 2012
7:50 pm
One team guesstimated early in offseason that Victorino could be a good value buy at about $6-7 million on a one-year deal #explodingprices
that was their stupidity, no way it was happening with all that money out there
David O'Brien
December 4th, 2012
7:50 pm
DOBerino,
With all these backup catcher signings, do you still see Bethancourt getting a shot at opening the season as Laird’s primary backup? — Comfortably Dumb
Seems doubtful, barring injury.