4:03 pm December 4, 2012, by David O'Brien
December 6th, 20124:26 am
Choo and Alex Gordon would be my trade targets. Dee Gordon is a singles hitter, and didn’t do so well last year. He might never hit enough to stay in a lineup.
December 6th, 20125:40 am
Scott Miller @ScottMCBS
Growing feeling among #Dodgers people that Greinke may wind up w/ #Rangers. Reasoning: If he really wanted LA, could have signed by now
If so, smart man. Go where you can win… not that the Rangers needed him, they already had a strong rotation, but….
Woulda been nice if we put in an offer and see if Zack would do a Cliff Lee and take less
December 6th, 20126:19 am
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale
The #Dodgers are starting to wonder whether Greinke really wants to live in LA, or prefers the quieter enviroment in Texas with the #Rangers
Said it before, I don’t think he’s gonna go play for the big money… Arlington is quiet, but ATL is even quieter. We need a pitcher, should be involved.
December 6th, 20126:28 am
Well, it is still early in the offseason, but very disappointing so far. The team is quite a bit worse than at the end of last year…not exactly your goal, right?
December 6th, 20126:37 am
Other teams putting both National and local TV money towards payroll? Braves? Apparently not so much.
December 6th, 20126:52 am
Reports are that the Twins may be willing to trade Ben Revere for SP. I wonder if they would consider Delgado/Teheran and Constanza/Schafer/Francisco for Revere and a good/very good A/AA level good pitching prospect?
December 6th, 20126:55 am
This team lost Chipper, Bourn, and McCann (for a few months). They have the money and the prospects to get a LFer, but yet, freakin Juan Francisco or Jose Constanza are going to end up being starters. Wren’s already conceding the division to the Nationals
December 6th, 20127:15 am
What a dud-of-a-winter-meetings.
December 6th, 20127:18 am
Given Greinke’s “difficulties,” Arlington would be a better fit for the lad than L.A. Though the Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex isn’t exactly cozy like Milwaukee or K.C.
December 6th, 20127:21 am
Rise and Shine, all!
With the way Francisco and Teheran have timed their surge down south to coincide with the winter meetings, you might think they actually want to get traded.
December 6th, 20127:22 am
The off-season isn’t over yet, O ye of little faith…
December 6th, 20127:37 am
December 5th, 2012
I think Licey Stadium is 335 to the corners, 385 in the alleys, and 411 to center.
But my Spanish sucks.
If true, those are pretty long pokes for a HR…..”
MASSIVE shot yesterday to follow up as well.
FATSISCO has metamorphosed from a slug into a butterfly named FRANCISCO it appears.
December 6th, 20127:38 am
December 6th, 20127:41 am
Here’s an idea. Tell Francisco that he is fined $5,000 for every HR he hits with two strikes.
Maybe his OBP would go up then.
Again, just thinking outside the box.
He doesn’t need to become Youklis-like. Just a simple adjustment with two strikes. That’s all. Just below average K and BB rates.
December 6th, 20127:52 am
How’s 4 BB 6 SO in his last eight sound? .341 OBP, .909 OPS in his last ten. Looks to me like he’s taking his lessons to heart. Long-term his offense will suffer as he slowly reverts back to his old ways, and has to re-adjust over and over, but I’d say FRANCISCO has turned the corner as a hitter.
ALEX GORDON would be my choice for LF.
December 6th, 20127:56 am
And the trades beat goes on.
December 6th, 20127:57 am
You tell ‘um. WREN’s lying in the weeds, ready to strike a deal.
December 6th, 20128:24 am
so the rockies asked for mike minor AND one of teheran or delgado for fowler??? rockies have lost their minds!
Wen appears to be confortable going to Spring Training with a combination of Prado, Gattis and Francisco to fill LF and 3B. Lets see what Gattis and Francisco bring to the tabel rather than over pay / trade for someone that may or may not fill these holes.
December 6th, 20128:34 am
Wren’s already conceding the division to the Nationals
God I hate stupid people!!
Here is Juan Fran’s sOPS+ for last year, which I think says that “100″ means you have a league average OPS on that count.
1-0 Count —–157
2-0 Count—– 170
0-1 Count —–92
1-1 Count —–267
2-1 Count—– 90
3-1 Count —–99
0-2 Count—– negative 100
1-2 Count —–115
2-2 Count—– 58
Full Count—– 78
After 1-0—– 81
After 2-0—– 39
After 0-1—– 107
After 1-1—- 134
After 2-1—– 90
After 3-1—– 132
After 0-2—– negative 1
After 1-2—– 61
After 2-2—– 38
Three Balls—– 84
Two Strikes—– 53
Batter Ahead—– 115
Even Count—– 125
Pitcher Ahead—– 58
Not sure there is much here we don’t already know, but it looks like Juan would be better off if he NEVER swung the bat until someone had thrown him at least one strike. At 1-0, he is far, far better just letting it go to 2-0 or 1-1, where he is off the chart. And his first pitch versus 0-1 is not much different. I wonder what would happen if he was told to never swing until he had a strike. Sometimes I think that is Prado’s approach.
(It looks like he walked every time he went to 3-0–which is a miracle–so that must explain why he gets a blank for those two situations.)
December 6th, 20128:35 am
I’m happy that Francisco has learned that pitchers have to throw three strikes before throwing four balls, it’s true. I’m happy that his power has been on display, though that’s never been in question. But I’d temper the enthusiasm a little by remembering that this is winter league, AAA at best. I haven’t checked on the pitchers against whom he’s having his success, but I don’t think Matt Cain is throwing winter ball this year.
I don’t think anyone here has seen video of his swing changes (have they?), so there’s little chance of actually knowing if what he’s doing will hold up against ML pitching. And 100 ABs is hardly a solid sample. I just think folks might want to not go crazy on the guy just yet.
December 6th, 20128:38 am
If the asking price for Fowler from the Rockies is correct and just a sample of the asking prices for Myers and others, then it is quite clear why Wren has not pulled the trigger on any of them. And on that note I say good job FW for not giving in to bad deals.
December 6th, 20128:50 am
I guess my point about Francisco is that there must be some simple rules he can be given about plate discipline that would nudge his OBP to the “below average” range. Maybe some of that is happening now. But even I agree it’s too small a sample. Wait for ST.
Wow, negative 100 with two strikes. The league average is POSITIVE 100. It’s almost like he just gives up with two strikes, swings even harder. Zero effort made to grind away and foul off a few. A number that bad is pure mental. Certainly that can be coached a little.
December 6th, 20128:53 am
Then you must hate yourself then. You’re a fool if you think this team as constructed now will compete with the Nationals. “Crazy” is the perfect name for you
December 6th, 20128:54 am
What about the braves trading for cory hart… even though he is a left fielder maybe he can play left
December 6th, 20128:58 am
old man- enjoying your new toy with the bold italics? Next thing we’ll see from you will be the smiley facey things.
December 6th, 20129:02 am
They aren’t losing McCann for several months. Wren was on MLB TV last night and said he was on track to miss a couple of weeks. Said he’d be able to do batting practice and running and fielding drills in Spring Training.
Phillies looking to get even older by trading for Michael Young?
December 6th, 20129:04 am
where does one draw the line between waiting for prices/trade demands go down and missing the boat on desirable players?
Pearls Before Swine
December 6th, 20129:05 am
“”A trade is still the more likely means for Colorado to acquire starting pitching help, according to Renck. Teams are calling about Dexter Fowler and Michael Cuddyer. Renck notes that the two years and $21MM remaining on Cuddyer’s contract may be appealing to teams, given the inflated prices we’ve seen in this year’s free agent market.”"
The reason I posted the above is because the fact is the BRAVES cracked the seal on the FA “inflated prices” situation this year when they signed the mediocre Upton! Fans are always crying about not having the payroll other teams have yet every time the Braves have some money to spend, they waste it and over pay for a player. (Lowe, Uggla) They just don’t know how to handle money, so therefore they don’t deserve success.
December 6th, 20129:07 am
Cubs trade Soriano + $18M for Road Runner and Constanza. At $9M/year for Alfonso, I could live with his production in LF and Prado at 3B. Think Cubs would be interested in such a trade? They lost out on Keppinger and other 3B options so far. This would still save them about $8M/year while adding potential sock at 3B instead of LF and adding speed to their outfield with Georgie.
December 6th, 20129:08 am
I liked Michael Young as an option for the Braves. Looks like he may end up in Philly. Oh well. This has been a really boring Winter Meetings. I can’t think of one trade that took place among any teams. With this being Thursday and the Rule 5 draft I imagine it will be a very slow day.
December 6th, 20129:09 am
If the Rangers can get any bit of that money off of the books, that would be great for them Young is owed $16 million in 2013 – the final year of his contract. That would open up the DH spot and allow them to play both Olt and Moreland every day. Probably give them an oppourtunity to play Nelson Cruz there and have a good defensive outfield with Murphy, Gentry/Martin playing out there too. Still not sure what they are going to do with Profar/Andrus.
December 6th, 20129:11 am
chip – You either wait for the demands to go down or you radically overpay. Would YOU trade Minor and Teheran/Delgado for Dexter Fowler? And lord Knows what they’re asking for Choo or Gordon.
December 6th, 20129:13 am
Still don’t really understand Fredi’s comments about spending a third year in Triple-A. Especially for Teheran who is a full year younger than Delgado. Teheran will turn 22 years old in January. I don’t think there is much of an issue with him spending parts of another season there.
RE: Michael Young and the Phillies.
All the more reason for the Braves to try and extend Prado. Young would be a 1 yr deal with the Rangers picking up more than 1/2 his contract. I could see Philly offering a truckload of money to Prado in FA
December 6th, 20129:20 am
I could see Philly offering a truckload of money to Prado in FA
If Prado has a career average sort of .295/.345/.435 offensive year while playing a good third base, then I think he is going to be in line for a large contract on the free agent market. I think he’s going to end up being worthy of a qualifying offer with the type of free agent contracts being offered this offseason. My hope is that he signs an extension with the Braves, but I have more concern now about that than ever.
And lord Knows what they’re asking for Choo or Gordon.
Hopefully Teheran. He doesn’t need to be in the rotation, so can’t trade Delgado. But to have him in AAA yet again and possibly lose value, eh… Besides, I think that for a player of Choo’s caliber and the likelihood that we can get back a draft pick, I’d do that swap everyday and twice on Sunday. Much easier decision than Medlen for Myers.
December 6th, 20129:21 am
One obstacle in trading Hart is the limited no-trade clause his contract contains, tweets Jon Heyman of CBS Sports. Hart prefers his Spring Training to take place in Arizona, so it’s safe to assume he can block trades to all teams whose Spring facilities are in Florida.
Darn… cuz he’d be a great addition to our lineup.
December 6th, 20129:22 am
No Lew. Don’t care for Fowler at all. Don’t want Choo either. He will walk at end of year and didn’t he have a DUI last summer. Don’t need another boozer. I like Gordon the best. Depends on the cost though.
December 6th, 20129:25 am
Source tells @MLB.com’s @BryanHoch that @Yankees’ offer to Kevin Youkilis is 1 year, $12 million.
What utterly shocking to me is that Minnesota traded Span for 1 A ball prospect-while a good prospect. It is still only 1 and a very low level one at that.
Span is a much better and much more proven MLB hitter and leadoff hitter at that. The twins accept that deal from the Nationals and yet they turned down the Braves offer (I would LOVE to know what they wanted in return)
Couple that with the fact that Colroado’s asking price for Dexter Fowler being just plain ridiculous makes me one if GM’s see Wren as a sap and think that he can be played.
What other explanation can there be?….maybe the only other one is that he is a jerk and other GM’s do not like him?…
I just don’t know…but something isn’t adding up.
December 6th, 20129:27 am
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
#brewers will listen on corey hart, but one issue is limited no-trade that includes 15 of 29 teams. wants spring in AZ
I agree. If Prado has his typical year or better, he could be in line for Upton type money, or even more. These FA deals are driving up the price of extending players way beyond what was thought feasible.
Why not try for Choo and Cabrera and put Cabrera on 3rd. Give them Francisco, Ahmed and Tehran. Then when Choo leaves we have the draft pick and something left on MLB roster to show for it.
OnlyBravesFan – And you don;’t need to be the biggest poster here month after month – but Teheran has much more talent than you do.
Much like Mac, we can’t afford to let Prado finish next season unsigned… which is why it sukks that Mac was injured and played poorly this season, I bet he’d already be extended. 5/55 to Prado this winter, or else he’ll be looking for 15+ next winter. Not likely we can compete with that.
In past years, the Braves have had some payroll turnover and claimed virtually every year that they would now be able to address a shortcoming of some type. Then routinely, they would break spring training explaining how they really didn’t have the money coming off the books and that the fans really didn’t know the numbers and best of all….. they weren’t able to address their gaps in the lineup like they stated they would over the previous Winter. It’s a right of spring with the Braves. Hollow promises and goals unmet.
This Winter was going to be different. Chipper off the payroll. Lowe off the payroll. Tommy Hanson’s arb salary off the payroll. JJ off the payroll. Lots of wiggle room this year! Sign a couple of outfielders and retain a decent bench.
The Winter is not over yet, but geez…. It’s looking like the Braves are going to “poor mouth” their way through the spring and start the season short again….. even with the payroll flexibility they started the off-season with.
To heck with free agents, why can’t the Braves make a trade to fill their needs when so many other teams can? Do trade partners ask other teams for a decent return, but when they see Wren coming they ask him to empty his closet of prospects?
Something fishy here. Either Wren over values his prospects, he misjudges his prospects ability, or other teams GM’s just don’t like Wren.
December 6th, 20129:28 am
If the Phillies land Michael Young and Granderson or Bourn. They will be back to being a seriously threat. I know that Rollins is again, Utley’s body is breaking down but Howard will be healthy to start the season…once they get that cheater Ruiz back. Their lineup could be pretty scary again.
Plus who knows what other moves they might make.
The Braves could seriously be looking at 3rd place unless they make a move to land an impact player. I’ve heard enough of this patchwork 3b/lf situation solution, but it isn’t a solution, it’s BS!
Sources tell @ToddZolecki that @Phillies in serious discussions about acquiring @Rangers INF Michael Young: http://atmlb.com/RaGZtJ
December 6th, 20129:29 am
**Rollins in aging**
Y’all did see that Wren said he would be doing contract extensions in Januray – life maybe AFTER he put the team together?
Peter Gammons @pgammo
Jason Grilli will decide between Cubs, Blue Jays, Giants and Pirates at 10 am, or earlier if one goes to 3 years
December 6th, 20129:30 am
***Rollins is aging***
I can type…promise, just need that first cup of coffee….
December 6th, 20129:33 am
Phillis serious……What the Phillis has in the minor to interest the Rangers?….serious
Mark Bowman @mlbbowman
The Winter Meetings will conclude with the Rule 5 Draft this morning. Braves are not expected to select or lose a player in the MLB phase
That isn’t what I called you stupid for. I said your stupid for thinking Wren is conceding the division to the Nats.
You’re a fool if you think this team as constructed now will compete with the Nationals.
No… only a fool would think on DEC 6th that this is the finished product and start acting like a nut on a blog!!
December 6th, 20129:35 am
Rotoworld Baseball @Rotoworld_BB
Mariners, Tribe are primary Swisher suitors
The asking price for Dexter Fowler is ridiculous. This is his first year he had a standout year. But even still the guy doesn’t steal bases that well and can’t hit away from Coors. There is no way anyone meets that asking price.
December 6th, 20129:37 am
START acting like a nut on the blog? Been going on for several years now.
Patrick – Couple that with the fact that Colroado’s asking price for Dexter Fowler being just plain ridiculous makes me one if GM’s see Wren as a sap and think that he can be played.
Other GMs clearly know that the Braves are after a LF. They are probably testing Wren to see just how much he wants said LF. By stating that he is willing to go with a Constanza/Francisco/Prado platoon, Wren is just trying to get some bargaining power back. Also, his patience may be rewarded ultimately with a better deal. We have to be patient, too.
Then, if Constanza is starting in LF on opening day, we storm the Braves’ offices!! Kidding about that last part, but you know what I mean.
December 6th, 20129:38 am
Darvish, Greinke, Harrison, Holland and Ogando would be the Rangers rotation. Martin Perez as the 6th starter. Lewis, Feliz recovering from surgeries. Nathan, Soria, Scheppers and Ross as the primary pen arms.
JIM BOWDEN @JimBowdenESPNxm
Kevin Youkilis deciding between Yankees and Indians but $12m dollar offer by Yanks should make this an easy decision
December 6th, 20129:40 am
The Braves could seriously be looking at 3rd place unless they make a move to land an impact player.
What you are saying, basically, is that the seven starters currently projected are too scrubby to compete, unless they get one more guy. Does that really make sense to you? That a lineup of Prado, Heyward, Freeman, McCann, Uggla, Upton, Simmons simply isn’t good enough without another bat, but that one more bat would change them from scrubby to monster? Come on.
I want them to pick up a bat, too, but thinking that what they currently have is a third-place offense isn’t very logical.
Last night on MLB, Wren said that they were still looking for a lead off hitting LFer. Not so sure there is one we can get. I’d be happy with someone who could hit anywhere in the lineup and let Simmons give lead off a shot.
December 6th, 20129:42 am
Wow, I posted and then saw Patricks post! Seems I echoed his post almost identically!
Good to know I’m not the only one who feels that way.
December 6th, 20129:43 am
Rangers are stacked… hard throwers in their great rotation. And they’re likely to add another starter. But hey, you only need to add to the rotation if it’s not doing well…
Prices on competent LF needs to come down… no way should Georgie be on the 25man roster, let alone starting
December 6th, 20129:45 am
Just because someone agrees with you doesn’t mean you’re vaguely close to being correct.
Misery loves company.
December 6th, 20129:46 am
“Couple that with the fact that Colroado’s asking price for Dexter Fowler being just plain ridiculous makes me one if GM’s see Wren as a sap and think that he can be played.
What other explanation can there be?….maybe the only other one is that he is a jerk and other GM’s do not like him?”
I don’t get that impression based on Wren’s past trades. He’s made a couple bad ones no doubt, but he’s gotten some players like Bourn and Uggla for practically nothing.
December 6th, 20129:50 am
It appears that the trade talks for Cabrera to the diamondbacks and Upton to the Rangers has some trade partners that aren’t really necessary. The Indians could receive Upton and trade him to the Braves sending prospects to both teams if necessary. The Rangers play no part unless Olt is a key. Enlighten me.
December 6th, 20129:51 am
I guess it is somewhat reasonable to hope for deals to occur at the Winter meetings while everyone is physically in the same location. But, I am told that there are ways for people to communicate from great distances. Maybe Wren has the capability to use one of these modern communication devices and consumate a deal in the near future. Hey, I figured out how to post online.
December 6th, 20129:58 am
Smoke signals? Drums? Carrier pigeons? Marathon runners? Where there’s a will there’s a way, right?
December 6th, 20129:59 am
Swisher is basically waiting on Upton, Hamilton, Greinke so he can make his decision. Cleveland or Seattle seems like the two most logical fits.
December 6th, 201210:04 am
I prefer Wren NOT over pay or get taken in a trade. Not panic and make a move just to make a move.
Dan Connolly @danconnollysun
Josh Fields is the first pick taken — by Astros from Red Sox. And that will be the last guy Ive heard of
December 6th, 201210:06 am
Alex Speier @alexspeier
Twins take Ryan Pressly from Sox. Has impressive AFL
I would not trade Wil Myers for two years of James Shields if I were the Royals. Not the right direction for the team, imo.
December 6th, 201210:07 am
O’Dowd must be on crack. Reports were he asked for Minor AND either Teheran or Delgado for Dexter Fowler. I imagine Wren had to work really hard to hold back the laughter.
December 6th, 201210:08 am
I can’t keep up with these Rule 5 picks. Too many. Here’s a website where you can, if you’re interested.
December 6th, 201210:09 am
BenBadler If the Rays can really get Wil Myers for James Shields, I would do that immediately.
As would I. Should be interesting to see what else the Royals include, if anything. And will the Rays be labeled as contenders if they trade a major league player like Shields for one prospect like Wil Myers?
December 6th, 201210:11 am
Again – I wonder how often the phrase “Are you out of your $%#*ing mind” comes up in these trade proposals?
Not 100″ sure but O’Dowd isn’t the GM anymore correct. He took a different assignment in the front office. They promoted someone else to GM.
December 6th, 201210:14 am
Victorino 3/$39, Napoli 3/$39, Blanton 2/$15, Schierholtz 1/$2.25, plus others
Welcome to Bizarro World!
Hell maybe the Mayans are right after all
I would not trade Wil Myers for two years of James Shields if I were the Royals. Not the right direction for the team, imo
I partially agree. But at the same time, Shields is one of those guys I could see mentoring a young staff (much like he’s done in Tampa) and helping the Royals get the most out of some of their pitching prospects like Will Smith, Jake Odorizzi and Mike Montgomery.
And don’t forget the Royals still have top outfield prospect Bubba Starling. To me, it’s kind of like what the Braves have with Teheran and Delgado. If the Braves only had one of those guys, they would probably never consider trade him. But having both gives them a unique opportunity to trade one without losing too much in terms of depth.
Nate McLouth signs a 7 year contract with the Orioles. I sure wish I knew what went on with the Braves releasing him after playing him for two years with an injury that required surgery. We don’t have the talent to be releasing players that can start for other teams.
David O’Brien @ajcbraves
#Braves took no players and lost none in major league phase of Rule 5 draft
December 6th, 201210:15 am
Sorry about a mistake on the years. It was only one year on the McLouth signing. MLB.com reported it on their crawler first as a seven year deal.
December 6th, 201210:16 am
Hamilton and Greinke are not signing today in Nashville according to sources involved in the negotiations
December 6th, 201210:18 am
If the Rays get Myers that pretty much closes the door on the Braves getting Gordon, a player that would fit this team very, very well. As much as I’d like Myers, I think Gordon makes the team a more complete ballclub… so I hope this deal doesn’t go down.
The more I think about Francisco/Gattis/Prado, the more I think it could work out pretty well. It’s not ideal, but I would bet that a platoon of Francisco and Gattis would account for at least 25 HR if not more.
There aren’t many FA or players available via trade that could account for 25+ HR. Certainly not Dee Gordon. That guy needs to stay as far away from the Braves lineup as possible.
December 6th, 201210:19 am
Jim Salisbury @JSalisburyCSN
Source: it is in Michael Young’s hands whether he wants to be a Phillie. He is deciding whether to waive no trade.
December 6th, 201210:21 am
And don’t forget the Royals still have top outfield prospect Bubba Starling.
Really far away and the reports haven’t been fantastic. Royals #2 and #3 starters are Jeremy Guthrie and Ervin Santana. Even in a weak division, they would still be no better than third with the addition of James Shields. I think they should aim lower and keep Myers.
December 6th, 201210:23 am
Nate McLouth signs a 7 year contract with the Orioles. I sure wish I knew what went on with the Braves releasing him after playing him for two years with an injury that required surgery. We don’t have the talent to be releasing players that can start for other teams.
You’re joking, right?
Michael Young has two choices: accept deal to Phillies (if deal gets don)&play regular at 3B or stay w Texas and be a backup at 5 positions
December 6th, 201210:24 am
John Fay @johnfayman
Ludwick is still contemplating the #Reds’ offer. He is fine with a 2-year deal. But all the money being thrown around has affected things.
December 6th, 201210:27 am
What about Gordon for Shields, though he may be a bit costly in 2 years for the Rays… getting 1 quality starter may at least put the Royals in contention, be worth another 8-9 wins for them. Maybe 1 of their other starters overproduces and gets them to that 2nd WC berth, but w/ Shields alone they should be close enough to justify making a deadline deal for a starter.
I’d be intrigued by a Myers for Shields swap… they need pitching, already have offense. Maybe adding a BP arm from Tampa makes it fair, but KC already has a good pen. I wouldn’t say no to this deal, mull it over for a few days to make sure I’m not making a crazy decision. But 60-40, I probably do that (If I can’t move Gordon instead)
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