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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,190 comments Add your comment
Couch Tater
November 27th, 2012
8:12 am
Oh, Rog, Rog, Rog. There are so many reasons that NFL games, like teenage boys, are better at home. I’ve mentioned a few before, but how about 20 more?
If, you didn’t read Rick Reilly’s latest column..
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8639726/all-nfl-games-home-games
Funny and true. All the time, we get grief for vacant seats, but why fight that BS? And, it’s not just the Braves. I always enjoyed tailgating in Tuscaloosa, but even there, it’s changed for me. A lot easier to invite friends over, fire up the grill and not drive the interstate with 100,000 fans who are smoking, texting and drinking (at the same time) at 20 mph.
I’ve noticed that many of the students are staying away from the stadium. Why not? Student seating has been tucked into the corner with limited visibilty. Head to a bar with HD, for 50 yardline seats.
And besides, who wants to miss Vern Lundquist?
Do The Math
November 27th, 2012
8:26 am
With Bethancourt poised to take over at catcher in 2014 and Brandon Beachey set to return as well, 2014 could be a year to remember IF Frank Wren does not bring in BJ Upton ; IF Frank Wren lets Brian McCann go via free agency and uses that money by going all out for Mets’ free agent 3B David Wright after the 2013 season. If Wren could find another team that will take Uggla and some of his remaining contract, that’s even more money that would give us more options.
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
8:28 am
We know Medlen can pitch, and pitch very well, at the MLB level. We don’t know jack about how Myers will perform at the same level. I would NEVER make that trade. You don’t trade away one of the biggest strengths of your team for a gamble.
Very short-sighted. Is the strength of the team not its pitching depth? Do people honestly think that Kris Medlen is going to win the Cy this year, or come close to that phenomenal late-season stretch performance over the course of a full season? That the starting pitching would be so radically worse minus Medlen that the addition of a Wil Myers in LF would not at least partially overcome it? Because Wil Myers is probably no more of a “gamble” than Heyward was at his debut. I mean, let’s get a grip here.
Wren probably still wakes up in a sweat some nights, thinking he’s reliving that pitching nightmare from a few years ago, so pulling the trigger on a trade of ML pitching is unlikely to be his first choice. Plus, there are other teams that can offer more attractive pitchers than Medlen (you know, guys who have actually pitched at a high level for a full frickin’ season, for example). So that entire idea of Myers to Atlanta is just a dream. But totally rejecting Medlen-for-Myers as a bad trade? That’s insane.
ncbravesfan90
November 27th, 2012
8:54 am
Per MLB Trade Rumors:
B.J. Upton’s interest in the Braves “seemed to soar” following his meeting with GM Frank Wren, manager Fredi Gonzalez and future Hall of Famer Bobby Cox two weeks ago, writes MLB.com’s Mark Bowman.
This is great news. Like I said a week or so ago, If Bobby Cox can’t lure someone to play for Atlanta, then no one else will.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 27th, 2012
8:54 am
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 27th, 2012
7:21 am
When the offseason began, Upton seemed to be most interested in landing with the Phillies. But his interest in the Braves seemed to soar after he met with Wren, manager Fredi Gonzalez, former skipper Bobby Cox and others at Turner Field two weeks ago.- Bowman
Not good…. not good at all
Good good good.
I really hope Bossman joins the Braves and makes his decision soon. I can’t wait to laugh at all the naysayers when he puts up 30/30 numbers every year while hitting anywhere from .260-.280.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
8:54 am
Myers is a key piece that could go in a deal for James Shields or Jon Lester – very good starters with control of up to two seasons. I think Medlen is fair bounty for Wil Myers.
ncbravesfan90
November 27th, 2012
8:58 am
“I really hope Bossman joins the Braves and makes his decision soon. I can’t wait to laugh at all the naysayers when he puts up 30/30 numbers every year while hitting anywhere from .260-.280.”
Totally agree!
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
8:58 am
Myers is a key piece that could go in a deal for James Shields or Jon Lester – very good starters with control of up to two seasons. I think Medlen is fair bounty for Wil Myers.
If the quality of pitcher sought is that of Shields or Lester, then a Medlen offer pales. That extra year of control isn’t enough to compensate. On the other hand, if they are thinking Myers+ for two years of Shields or Lester, then Medlen straight-up might be equivalent, I guess.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
8:58 am
It almost looks like the Yankees will be bringing back the same team for 2013. They’ll look plenty different in 2014, though.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:05 am
If the quality of pitcher sought is that of Shields or Lester, then a Medlen offer pales. That extra year of control isn’t enough to compensate.
I guarantee there will be a few posts this morning of people pointing to Lester’s ERA this year and making the statement that Kris Medlen is the better pitcher……
Guaranteed with some of these folks.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:06 am
And heck, folks probably saying Medlen is better than Shields. That’s the way it works. 2 or 3 months equals a career.
cornjolio
November 27th, 2012
9:09 am
“Per MLB Trade Rumors: B.J. Upton’s interest in the Braves “seemed to soar” following his meeting with GM Frank Wren, manager Fredi Gonzalez and future Hall of Famer Bobby Cox two weeks ago, writes MLB.com’s Mark Bowman.”
Hopefully this is true and we can move on to other possibilities, preferably via a trade.
Tying up the payroll with a huge longterm contract is not the way to go, especially when nearly $30 million is tied up in Uggla & McCann for 2013.
P-Town Brave ©
November 27th, 2012
9:12 am
Wake up this morning to see people discussing trading Kris Medlen….
Good god people…..everyone b*tched and moaned about not getting production out of our rotation and then he came in and did what he did and now people want to trade him just to get an unproven bat…..
Seriously….shut the F up!
Very few things put me in worse moods to start a morning than sports stupidity…..
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:14 am
Tying up the payroll with a huge longterm contract is not the way to go, especially when nearly $30 million is tied up in Uggla & McCann for 2013.
I’m not sure I understand this. They have $14.7 million in guaranteed contracts for 2014 – Dan Uggla and Gerald Laird. Then only $13.2 million for 2015. $0 dollars for 2016.
One long term contract is perfectly fine for the team. Whether or not that player is worth that sort of an investment is an entirely different discussion.
P-Town Brave ©
November 27th, 2012
9:14 am
Dealing from a STRENGTH is not dealing the 1st or 2nd guy on the totem pole….
Its dealing the 4th 5th or 6th!
Good God! Next thing Im going to hear is that it’d be ok to trade Heyward or Simmons….
Lew
November 27th, 2012
9:15 am
What does McCann and Uggla making $30 million (actually, it’s closer to $26 mil) in 2013 have to do with giving Upton a four or five year deal?
Heat Check: Destiny’s ‘Dogs? Bowl-less Jackets? | Mark Bradley
November 27th, 2012
9:17 am
[...] Waiting for B.J. Upton to decide where he wants to play. The good news is that Upton has long been hailed as one of the game’s biggest talents. [...]
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:20 am
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tujElf32-2d237jk3IzWLsg&output=html
That’s as financially flexible as you can possibly get.
In 2014, the Braves will have tons of arbitration eligible players:
2nd year arbitration – Heyward, Medlen, Hanson, Venters, Martinez
1st year arbitration – Kimbrel, Freeman, Beachy, Francisco
Decent chance only five of them are on the team in 2014 – Heyward, Freeman, Medlen, Beachy, and Kimbrel – but they do have 9 players eligible(not counting Schafer and Janish).
Lew
November 27th, 2012
9:24 am
Someone kept mentioning Jeff Keppinger to platoon with Francisco at 3B next year and leaving Prado in LF.
Maybe not that bad an idea and certainly another option, except that Keppinger just broke his fibua this week and had to have it surgically repaired. Bet that put a hit on his Free Agency options.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
9:25 am
And he broke his fibula, too.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:27 am
Ichiro to resign with the Yanks for one year $5 million.
So that was pretty quick.
chipl1960
November 27th, 2012
9:30 am
Lew dont fret the spelling of such trivial words. You manage to get the players names right every time, unlike a large contingent on here who have seen the names in print countless times. I think they do it on purpose to somehow devalue the player. I bet they would be the very first to scream bloddy murder if their paycheck was issued with the incorrect spelling of the name.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:30 am
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Peter Gammons (@pgammo) just said on @MLBNetwork’s Hot Stove that #TIgers owner Ilitch spoke with Boras about Soriano on Monday.
Yeah, that’s like the only team Sori can go to at this point.
chipl1960
November 27th, 2012
9:35 am
Keppinger supposed to be good as new by January according to an online source yesterday.
Brava
November 27th, 2012
9:37 am
So that entire idea of Myers to Atlanta is just a dream. But totally rejecting Medlen-for-Myers as a bad trade? That’s insane.
No, It’s your opinion. I’m quite sane and would not make that trade, probably because I think more highly of Medlen than you do.
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
9:43 am
No, It’s your opinion. I’m quite sane and would not make that trade, probably because I think more highly of Medlen than you do.
Then, I’m sure you can explain how having Medlen and Maholm for an entire year is going to significantly reduce the number of runs given up by the team in 2013 over 2012. Considering that they gave up 600 and were 4th in the league, I assume you think that the two pitchers will make this the best staff in the NL.
chipl1960
November 27th, 2012
9:46 am
After seeing a FB page of someone whose name I won’t mention, I am now convinced that some folks should have the right to use a keyboard taken away. Geez! What a tool!
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:46 am
Alderson has to get a deal done with Wright. Dickey too. If they have to overpay slightly on both, then it needs to be done. Fan base needs that. More than a baseball decision in my opinion.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
9:46 am
chip – Thanks, but having broken my own fibula a couple of years ago, I SHOULD know how to spell it.
I still think it will affect his FA options. I was in a cast for four months and I didn’t have to have surgery to repair mine. It takes a while to regain strength in the leg because the muscles waste away a good bit while in the cast. Depending on how bad the break is, it might take him a while to fully recover.
cornjolio
November 27th, 2012
9:47 am
“Tying up the payroll with a huge longterm contract is not the way to go, especially when nearly $30 million is tied up in Uggla & McCann for 2013.”
26 million in 2013 for Uggly & McCann; potentially add another 15 million for BJ Upton.
That’s $41 million, or almost HALF the payroll on 3 players that hit a combined .235 last season.
Is that really smart?
Assuming McCann leaves after 2013, you still have Uggly another two years & Upton another four.
Not prudent.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
9:49 am
If Myers is as certain to be as good as so many seem to believe he is (I have no idea, myself), how in hell is he blocked in KC? Seems to me if he’s another Trout as at least one person claimed, that they’d find some way to get him into the lineup
Brava
November 27th, 2012
9:50 am
Medlen gave up 26 runs, 24 earned, in 12 games started, so, yes, I do think him pitching the entire season could significantly reduce the number of runs given up by the team. As for Maholm, I’m not particularly enamored of him and wouldn’t have a problem if the Braves could trade him for Will Myers.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 27th, 2012
9:51 am
I agree P-Town. While Medlen and Minor haven’t made the required amount of starts to label them aces just yet, they(or at least Medlen) has had a great start to his career when healthy. Even before his injury the guy was still pitching lights out. He’s young, has a great mentality as a pitcher who goes right after hitters and doesn’t get down on himself. I’m not calling him the next Maddux just yet but he sure does remind me of him when he’s on the mound. You don’t trade pitchers like that when you are trying to compete with a middle of the pack budget.
Live Vipir
November 27th, 2012
9:53 am
“Very few things put me in worse moods to start a morning than sports stupidity…..”
The good thing is that nobody in a real decision-making role is reading any of this……..It’s a couple AJC guys being amused by the nonsensical detail presented and about 7 -10 posters……most throwing millions of someone else’s money out the window for drug addicts and .247 ’sluggers’.
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
9:54 am
Medlen gave up 26 runs, 24 earned, in 12 games started, so, yes, I do think him pitching the entire season could significantly reduce the number of runs given up by the team.
If he goes an entire season and gives up 75 runs, then I will bow to your superior knowledge, LOL. And be pleased as punch to do it.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
9:54 am
cornjolio – First of all, like Efrim said, starting next year they only have $14 mil in ommitments. Second of all, Wren has said the payroll might well be $100 million this year. Besides, if they have an additional $25-30 million that they can spend, then Upton would only take up half of the available funds – as would Bourn, Swisher, etc. and players like Pagan would still take up at least a third of it.
Fr once, the Braves actually have the money to do some worthwhile moves this winter. I’m not certain that this is time to be donning football helmets and dodging falling sky pieces.
Brava
November 27th, 2012
9:56 am
I hear you, scoots. I’d love to see that myself.
David O'Brien
November 27th, 2012
9:56 am
Keppinger supposed to be good as new by January according to an online source yesterday.
No, he’s “hoping” to be healthy by mid-January.
old man
November 27th, 2012
9:59 am
Anyone think we would really make a run at Myers? Does FW have the cojones to do that?
We have some flexibility to work him in slowly (Juan at 3B against RHers?) if he needed that.
Medlen + RP + Gattis = Myers.
Maybe they are talking right now.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:59 am
Someone kept mentioning Jeff Keppinger to platoon with Francisco at 3B next year and leaving Prado in LF.
Imagine that. Keppinger/Francisco platoon at 3B and resigning Michael Bourn for six years, $90-$100 million.
That’d be a “premium” offseason……………
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
10:00 am
Seems to me if he’s another Trout as at least one person claimed, that they’d find some way to get him into the lineup
Unlike some here, Moore is willing to trade from his depth to fill a weakness. His ML roster is loaded with young, affordable hitters. Whether it’s Myers or Gordon or Moustakas or Butler, he’s willing to trade a position player to fill a pitching need. Folks here seem reluctant to do the reverse.
chipl1960
November 27th, 2012
10:02 am
I would hate it if people came into my business everyday, having never filled my role, but insist they know better how to do my job. I do rely on the likes of JS, Wren, Fregosi, et al. They have probably a hundred years experience in the game. They also have information about players we are not privy to. Take a poll of all major league fan bases and I bet the Braves front office leadership ranks top ten.Further, look at wins-losses the last 10 years and the way the club is positioned going forward. I like our chances. Not to mention, if you go back 20 years,how many teams can reflect the success the Braves have had. Giants, Cardinals, Yankees, Marlins have won more than one title. That puts the Braves in the mix right behind those teams. Going forward I like the Braves chances in terms of the mix of talent, payroll committments, etc.
old man
November 27th, 2012
10:02 am
Long term:
Minor > Medlen.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:02 am
If I were the Royals, I’d keep Myers and bench Francouer. There could be a deal out there for a starter that you won’t have to surrender Myers for. Won’t be a starter at the level of Shields or Lester, but at least you’d still have Wil Myers.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 27th, 2012
10:04 am
cornjolio
You seem like a type of fan who would like Wren to go after mediocre players past their prime like Victorino, Pagan, and Ross. You do realize even players like this will cost around 10 million a year in today’s market right? These are players who won’t even come close to putting up career numbers at this stage of their careers. Wren is going after young players with potential to put up big numbers because they are either entering their prime years or are in their prime. Players that will stay on the field, whose bodies won’t break from a long season. You really want Wren to give out 10 million dollar contracts to someone like Victorino after the year he had last year? I seem like the minority on here who don’t mind him going after a player like Upton based on potential who is still young because honestly any player you sign these days you are taking a risk on.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:05 am
Long term:
Minor > Medlen.
Disagree. Strongly disagree.
Brava
November 27th, 2012
10:05 am
Medlen + RP + Gattis = Myers.
Maybe they are talking right now.
God, I hope not.
old man
November 27th, 2012
10:07 am
ncscoots:
amen.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:08 am
Folks here seem reluctant to do the reverse.
It’d be a head scratcher if Wren doesn’t trade pitching to fill one of the outfield needs. Again, what’s the point in Gwinnett leading the International League in team ERA?
Teheran, Delgado, Gilmartin, Spruill, Graham, Hale, Rodriguez – best 7 man rotation in the minors.
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
10:08 am
If I were the Royals, I’d keep Myers and bench Francouer.
No bleep, LOL. But I don’t think you pay Santana $12MM if you’re planning on another rebuilding year, so they need more than just another mid-rotation guy. Their kids aren’t ready to front yet, and that means getting a stud (or, at least, semi-stud).
Gone Viral
November 27th, 2012
10:10 am
Long term:
Minor + Medlen = woohoo!
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:10 am
Tyler Smith @maclee31
@mlbbowman what would it take for the Braves to land Myers? Medlen? Minor?
Mark Bowman @mlbbowman
@maclee31 Yeah, definitely one of those two guys and a prospect or two
Lew
November 27th, 2012
10:10 am
scoots – Well, there’s reluctance and then there’s reluctance. I’d say that the willing ness to trade from our surplus of pitching depends entirely on WHAT pitching we trade.
If people are already skeptical of the quality of our current MLB pitching, then why would you want to trade the best of it to fill a need that can be filled in other ways. However, if they wanted to trade some of the young pitching we have that is up and coming like Delgado or Teheran, the hue and cry wouldn’t be as loud as it would be trading Medlen or Minor.
Trading from strength is one thing – weakening that strength considerably to stregthen a weakness is pretty much a sideways maneuver and does not give much in the way of net gain.
David O'Brien
November 27th, 2012
10:11 am
I don’t have a problem with L.A. I like visiting L.A.
But this is funny. Very funny.
http://www.vice.com/read/reasons-why-los-angeles-is-the-worst-place-ever
P-Town Brave ©
November 27th, 2012
10:11 am
Lew-
Yeah….its called the black hole they have in RF that we used to have….
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:11 am
David O’Brien @ajcbraves
@stevenwiener They want a current top-of-rotation starter. Lester had one bad year after four really good ones.
Exactly. But so many think one bad year means a player is finished. Even if the player is in his prime with no injury attached.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:14 am
However, if they wanted to trade some of the young pitching we have that is up and coming like Delgado or Teheran, the hue and cry wouldn’t be as loud as it would be trading Medlen or Minor.
I’d consider trading Minor if the return was a position player of equal value.
Make things a lot more easier if Teheran and Delgado were rotational fixtures at, ya know, 22 and 23 respectively.
Murph
November 27th, 2012
10:14 am
Gotta trade talent to get talent. I wish more people on here understood that. I also wish more people understood that you can’t take 12-15 starts from a pitcher and project them out over a career. Medlen and Minor have talent, that is not really up for debate…. but to say that they are aces in waiting, that they are untouchable even if trading one would fill a need that the team has had for years and years and will likely have for years and years more… that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
Myers just put together one of the most impressive minor league seasons of any player in the last few years. Yes, he’s unproven at the major league level, but his talent is also not really up for debate. The kid can hit, he can play multiple positions, he has power, he hits from the right side of the plate… he fits with the Braves not only as a player but also as an affordable solution to a problem.
The Braves have pitching depth and money to spend. Not comfortable with Delgado or Teheran in the rotation? Fine, go out and sign one of the FA pitchers that are available to hedge your bet after the trade.
Young, affordable, power hitting, right handed outfielders don’t grow on trees… and don’t come available very often, if ever. I’d rather the team take a chance and trade for Myers than signs someone like Victorino who is quickly falling down the wrong side of the abilities slope, who will need to be replaced in a couple of years.
Fix the problem, deal from a strength to eradicate a weakness…. don’t slap a bandaid on a bullet wound. We’ve seen many, many times before that it doesn’t work.
Fix the problem.
P-Town Brave ©
November 27th, 2012
10:14 am
Lew-
BINGO!
You don’t trade the top of the pile….you trade from the middle or bottom of it….
Teams trading from the top of the deck are rebuilding, NOT reloading….just like if we traded Simmons, there is no real victory there…..
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 27th, 2012
10:15 am
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
9:59 am
Someone kept mentioning Jeff Keppinger to platoon with Francisco at 3B next year and leaving Prado in LF.
Imagine that. Keppinger/Francisco platoon at 3B and resigning Michael Bourn for six years, $90-$100 million.
That’d be a “premium” offseason……………
Ef
I really hope this was a sarcastic joke on your part because this is far from premium. I’m almost positive you were kidding…you were kidding right?
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:16 am
Once again, I blame Tommy Hanson’s shoulder for all of this……
If he became what it sure looked like he was going to become(2008-June of 2011), then we are golden right now.
Gone Viral
November 27th, 2012
10:18 am
“DAVID SPADE HAS A STAR ON THE HOLLYWOOD WALK OF FAME”
Okay, that’s hysterical.
Murph
November 27th, 2012
10:21 am
You don’t trade the top of the pile….you trade from the middle or bottom of it….
If Mike Minor is the top of our pile then our team is in a lot of trouble.
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
10:22 am
Once again, I blame Tommy Hanson’s shoulder for all of this……
Exactly, LOL. And Jurrjens’ knee. And Vizcaino’s elbow. And Teheran’s mechanics.
If the team doesn’t go oh-fer on those guys, all sorts of possibilities open up.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
10:25 am
Maybe Medlen and MInor revert to normalcy and maybe not – remains to be seen and the second half of 2012 is enough to give one hope of more good to come. However, they ARE the best we have right now and replacing them with equal talent that is at their state of readiness for the amount they are making would be next to impossible.
Maybe Myers (I really don’t think we have a package that would impress the Royals if he truly is as good as most believe (don’t even have that excellent three months of MLB performance to guage), but would his inclusion in the lineup make up for the loss of Medlen or Minor AND make us better, too?
Again – you do not significantly weaken a strength by strentgthening a weakness unless it makes you better all around and not just evens things out in a more sideways manner.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
10:26 am
I think I need work on parenthetical expressions.
cornjolio
November 27th, 2012
10:26 am
BravePack (FreeFan) :”Players that will stay on the field, whose bodies won’t break from a long season. You really want Wren to give out 10 million dollar contracts to someone like Victorino”
You mean like rewarding McCann $13 million for 2013, after the year he’s just had, a guy coming off major arm surgery and has bouts with vision problems? He won’t even be back until May or June, if at all.
You want to reward BJ Upton $75 million for his “potential” ?
Really?
I want a GM like they have in SF or STL.
Braves have not done jack since 1999, their last World Series appearance, and please don’t mention their meaningless divisional “championships” or their one and done “wild card” appearance in 2012, Nobody but Kool-Aid drinking Braves’ fans get off on such things.
Venice Jim
November 27th, 2012
10:26 am
R.I.P. Marvin Miller…
(although I suspect George was not a big fan)…
Mikeyc588
November 27th, 2012
10:28 am
DOB – Thanks for posting that Vice article. I lost it at the part about the restaurants (and the “yoga rave”). Great stuff. And thanks for all you do.
Brava
November 27th, 2012
10:29 am
DOB, thanks for that entertaining read. I especially liked the Cafe Gratitude menu. Bizzaro World stuff.
Tumbledown
November 27th, 2012
10:30 am
A lot of stuff has gone wrong for the Braves over the last few years. In addition, Uggla has been a disappointment, Lowe did not pitch up to his contract, Beachy underwent Tommy John, etc. It is a wonder the Braves have had three straight seasons of playoff or near-playoff baseball. Of course, most other teams could cite a littany of events going wrong for them, too.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
10:31 am
Bouts with vision problems.
I think that was several years ago and has not been the recurring problem some seem to believe it is. Squinting frequently is not indicative of having vision problems.
David O'Brien
November 27th, 2012
10:31 am
Yes, Braves have discussed bringing back Reed Johnson, but I don’t t think they’ve made an offer.
Patrick
November 27th, 2012
10:32 am
It almost looks like the Yankees will be bringing back the same team for 2013. They’ll look plenty different in 2014, though
Efrim
What makes you say that? Just out of curiousity…
DAP
November 27th, 2012
10:32 am
murph You don’t trade the top of the pile….you trade from the middle or bottom of it….
If Mike Minor is the top of our pile then our team is in a lot of trouble.
i think the “top of the pile” comment was clearly a reference to medlen.
P-Town Brave ©
November 27th, 2012
10:33 am
In all fairness there Beavis, its impossible to have what they have in SF and STL because well for one thing, they both have substantially more money to work with….
If you’re talking game changers, you’re talking 1-2 players worth….
If you’re talking plug and fill pieces like what the Giants have struck gold on, you’re talking a small handful….
The Braves have some money to play w/ this offseason and it seems more ppl are b*tching about what they’re looking at….
And then you add in the folks who want to trade our best pieces to plug a hole….
Guess what happens when you take a plug out of one hole in a boat to plug another hole…..
The team can be made better, but not through the likes of trading Medlen OR Heyward OR Minor OR Simmons OR Prado OR Freeman OR Kimbrel….
I would figure that is pretty clear….but what the hell do I know….
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
10:33 am
Again – you do not significantly weaken a strength
So, you’re saying that replacing Medlen with some combination of Teheran/Delgado/Beachy for a year is significantly worse? That such a change would be a difference in run prevention that would alter the team’s 2013 fortunes?
I’m not even talking about the change in run differential based on adding offense in the OF, just plain old pitching. Medlen vs any other in-house option is, say, a half-run or more better in ERA? Or any other value, whatever you choose?
Clark Howard
November 27th, 2012
10:33 am
If you give players big contracts based on their potential and not what they have accomplished on the field, what does that say about our society?
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:36 am
Scott Feldman to sign a one year deal with the Cubbies.
Garza, Samardzija, Baker, Feldman, and Wood as the projected starting rotation. Decent chance all of them are on other teams in 2014 knowing Theo. Heck, possibly by August 2013.
RC
November 27th, 2012
10:36 am
If you give players big contracts based on their potential and not what they have accomplished on the field, what does that say about our society?
That you pay players based on what they are likely to do, not what’s already done?
It’s bad business to pay a player based on what he’s accomplished on the field….you should pay a player based on what he’s LIKELY to do on the field in the future. How well you are able to predict that determines how much value you will get for your dollar spent. If you pay a player based on what he’s done in the past, you end up with a bunch of 35-40 year old players making $20 million a year.
cornjolio
November 27th, 2012
10:36 am
anyone remotely suggesting we trade Medlen or Simmons needs immediate psychiatric treatment.
Lets start with Uggla and Hanson …
chipl1960
November 27th, 2012
10:37 am
The theory behind a trade is that it benefits both teams. You try to deal from a position of strength or depth to fill a need. That is why no one is suggesting the Brave s trade infielders or outfielders. The perceived strength of the organization is pitching. When Beachy comes back you have him Hudson, Medlen, Minor, Hanson, JJ, Maholm, Tehran, Delgado, Gilmartin. I’m sure I missed one or two but that totals 10. If you deal one or two, and, if someone goes down then you make a deadline deal for a pitcher from someone thats out of contention or wants to unload salary. Its not doom and gloom around here the way I see it. But, again, I’m just a fan and Itrust the front office to make the right decisions.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:38 am
What makes you say that? Just out of curiousity…
$191 million invested in 17 players if they Rivera, Pettitte, and Ichiro deals total up to around $28-$30 million.
I could see them bringing in a RH hitting outfielder like Cody Ross who can DH and play some outfield, but other than that, they are pretty much set.
Couch Tater
November 27th, 2012
10:39 am
Very few things put me in worse moods to start a morning than sports stupidity
Good Morning, P-Town Brave.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/21143017/worst-bcs-game-ever-try-georgia-tech-kent-state-worth-50-million-in-the-orange-bowl
Bigwheel
November 27th, 2012
10:41 am
Im sure there HAS to be a buyout on our tv deal. It diminishes the teams value at the current rate for the next 20 years.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
10:41 am
scoots – Yeah, that’s exactly what I;m saying. Figured it would be poretty freaking clear, Teheran is iffy as all hell right now and Delgado likely won’t even be here , but even if he is, I;’d say that both Medlen and Minor were further along. And counting on Berachy for anything is speculative in the extreme. He may be back and provide some good starts, but I’d be loathe to stake the season on it.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:41 am
anyone remotely suggesting we trade Medlen or Simmons needs immediate psychiatric treatment.
How can you say this when you have no idea what the return could be? I’d trade Heyward if they received enough back. Obviously the trades need to be realistic, but players always have some sort of a value, and if it’s met or exceeded in a trade proposal, the GM would be foolish not to consider it if it made sense for the teams future.
Lew
November 27th, 2012
10:43 am
Actually, it says nothing about the state of society. What it does say is that in MLB right now and going forward, salaries have hit a point of insanity and will continue to accelerate way past any sense of sanity.
Frank Wren : A self-assessment
November 27th, 2012
10:44 am
Rafael Soriano for Jesse Chavez: BRILLIANT !
Mark Teixeira for Casey Kotchman: BRILLIANT !
Omar Infante for Dan Uggla: BRILLIANT !
Acquiring Nate McLouth & his big contract: BRILLIANT !
Derek Lowe signing: BRILLIANT !
Kinchen Kawakami signing: BRILLIANT !
BJ Upton, his .298 on base percentage and unlimited strike out potential for 5 years @ $75 million … (to be continued)
Murph
November 27th, 2012
10:44 am
Minor almost didn’t make the rotation out of ST. He was almost dropped from the rotation at the end of June.
Medlen wasn’t exactly lights-out before he got moved to the rotation… for the last 2 months of the season.
You guys realize that the “strengths” you’re worried about dealing are only slightly more “proven” than a guy like Myers, right? Up until June the only thing that Minor had proven was that he was not a very good or consistent starter.
I think the world of Medlen (not so much Minor) and would be devastated if he were traded… but, if he could be used to get a hitter the quality of Myers, I would have a hard time with the decision. Minor, not so much. If the Royals brought him up first I’d slam my hand down on the negotiating table and scream “SOLD!” before Moore had even finished his sentence. Hanson too.
There’s risk to everything, every move a GM makes. Extending a player, trading for a player, signing a player, etc. As a fan, I’d at least feel better knowing that my GM was trying hard to make something BIG happen, to bring in a guy who COULD change the team’s fortunes… a difference-maker, and guy to push the team over the top… the thought of bringing in a guy like Victorino, whose bat speed is in rapid decline, all in the name of holding onto a “strength”… that doesn’t feel like really trying to win. It feels more like trying not to fail.
Efrim
November 27th, 2012
10:45 am
Omar Infante for Dan Uggla: BRILLIANT !
I absolutely was brilliant. Infante isn’t that good and Dan Uggla is.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
November 27th, 2012
10:47 am
I was Tasting BJ a few weeks ago and Got Sick from It….I have totally pulled a 180
No Way in Hell Should we pay him 5-80. We don’t need another Streak Hitter on a team that is full of streak hitters.
Word Is Upton tore the cover off the ball in the second half, therefore hopefully Ruben Amaro Wins the Bidding War….
chipl1960
November 27th, 2012
10:47 am
well said Murph. I do believe however that Victorino has some left in the tank. Not sure I’d committ to him for more than a one year deal though.
ncscoots
November 27th, 2012
10:48 am
Figured it would be poretty freaking clear,
Crystal, Lew. Crystal. As usual.
DAP
November 27th, 2012
10:48 am
patrick It almost looks like the Yankees will be bringing back the same team for 2013. They’ll look plenty different in 2014, though
Efrim
What makes you say that? Just out of curiousity…
not speaking for efrim, but they have a ton of free agents. cano, and granderson, along with alot of thier one year guys like ichiro, petite, if he resigns, mariano rivera, if he gets his one year deal done, kuroda, stuff like that.
CB
November 27th, 2012
10:49 am
Medlen is a fan favorite here so of course people resist any thought of trading him. This site is worse than a political site in everything is either black or white. I know,let’s trade Pastornicky and Constanza for Myers. Poll all the GMS and probably 90% would say trading Medlen for Myers would be a great trade for Braves.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
November 27th, 2012
10:50 am
Frank Wren : A self-assessment
“Rafael Soriano for Jesse Chavez: BRILLIANT !”
MFIKY Was Nowhere near the Caliber closer when he was here, as to Now…He would Flop in big games when he was here, he didn’t Do that Pitching in The Rotten Apple.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
November 27th, 2012
10:54 am
chipl1960
“well said Murph. I do believe however that Victorino has some left in the tank. Not sure I’d committ to him for more than a one year deal though.”
Philly Fans think he can be Had at a Contract similiar to that of The Melk Dud (2yrs-16mill):
I’d definitely bite at that as opposed to overspending on Upton 5-80, Yuck!
Arkansas Transplant
November 27th, 2012
10:54 am
Salcedo, Ahmed and Delgado for Olt and Gentry
Hanson, Gilmartin and Butler for Myers
Sign McCarthy to incentive laced contract
Rotation would round out to Hudson, Medlen, Minor, Maholm and Teheran/McCarthy
And we’d still have room to sign a proven CF like Upton, Pagan or Bourn if need be but we have the building blocks with Olt at 3rd long term, Myers in LF long term.. we’d be very good for a very long time… we would not be an old team.
David O'Brien
November 27th, 2012
10:54 am
Rafael Soriano for Jesse Chavez: BRILLIANT !
Mark Teixeira for Casey Kotchman: BRILLIANT !
Omar Infante for Dan Uggla: BRILLIANT !
Acquiring Nate McLouth & his big contract: BRILLIANT !
Derek Lowe signing: BRILLIANT !
Kinchen Kawakami signing: BRILLIANT ! – Frank Wren: A self-assessment
Since you’re obviously the king of hindsight, why don’t you do a little self-assessment of your own and please show us evidence that you questioned or criticized many, or any, of the above deals at the time they were made. Because seriously, hindsight and Monday-morning quarterbacking are tired and pretty meaningless pursuits when it comes to judging deals.
Decision-makers have to make decisions, and folks in recliners are going to bash them for them if they don’t work out.
I’ll admit, the only one of the above deals I had a problem with at the time it was made was Soriano for Chavez. I thought the Braves rushed to get rid of him after he accepted arbitration. Didn’t understand why they offered arb if they weren’t prepared for the good chance he’d accept, and didn’t understand why Wren felt compelled to make deal to get rid of him in under 48 hours before we left Winter Meetings in Indy.
Tex for Kotchman was just fallout for the very bad deal made before Wren took over. If he could’ve gotten more for Tex at that point, he would’ve.
Lowe was an overpay and we all knew it, but we also knew Braves had to do something at that point of the winter after losing out on a few other guys and badly needing a proven veteran at the top of their rotation. So I had no problem with signing Lowe, a proven innings-eater and a guy that many key Braves players had recommended the Braves sign after the previous season ended.