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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,190 comments Add your comment
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
December 3rd, 2012
12:34 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 3rd, 2012
12:25 pm
“You can taste Justin Upton? Ewwww”
Its Only a Matter of Time until the Move is Made, Watch and Bank On It!
Wren Better not trade Lil Andy Simmons, Dude is gonna Win a Gold Glove in a few Years
JC Brave
December 3rd, 2012
12:35 pm
It appears Justin Upton might end up with the Rangers.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
December 3rd, 2012
12:37 pm
JC Brave
“It appears Justin Upton might end up with the Rangers.”
GRRRRR! Not Good!
Murph
December 3rd, 2012
12:38 pm
It would be sickening to see either one of them in Those Candystripes
Seriously? How is facing JJ multiple times per season a sickening proposition? Seems like at least 3 or 4 automatic wins to me.
I welcome JJ on the Phillies. Would prefer seeing him on the Nats, but we’ll take what we can get.
Heath
December 3rd, 2012
12:39 pm
I’m not sure they’d do it, but Freeman+ for Stanton and signing LaRoche would be quite a series of moves.
DOB:
Moment of truth, do you ever see any good proposals from the blog (or twitter) and ask the Braves their thoughts? I think I know the answer….
Efrim
December 3rd, 2012
12:39 pm
TOBF, I agree with you. And I think he will be given an offer if acquired. Just not a slam dunk, I guess.
George_George
December 3rd, 2012
12:40 pm
JC Brave
December 3rd, 2012
12:35 pm
It appears Justin Upton might end up with the Rangers
*****************************************************
GOOD, one UPTON is way more than enough. The only other UPTON I would want in ATL would be KATE.
DAP
December 3rd, 2012
12:41 pm
if the braves had choo, youd absolutely offer him a qualifying offer. its more of a slam dunk than offering to bourn. (obviously without knowing what he will do in 2013).
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
12:46 pm
I really like the idea of trading for Choo, assuming the price tag is not too steep. The Braves would have $$$ left over to fortify the bench with someone like Reed Johnson.
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
12:48 pm
The nationals are trying to trade for James Shields
Puma
December 3rd, 2012
12:49 pm
Qualifying offer to Choo for 2014 would be roughly $14 mil…seems steep, but the Boras factor and his age is a pretty good indicator that he would test market and not accept that.
I think when Maddux accepted qualifying offer back in the day affected how Braves handle these things now, but its not like a year of Choo at $14 mil would be an absolute disaster.
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
12:49 pm
Heath – Moment of truth, do you ever see any good proposals from the blog (or twitter) and ask the Braves their thoughts?
Conversely, DOB, do any trade proposals dished out by by the blogoshere make you want to shut down any interactions with the fans?
Efrim
December 3rd, 2012
12:49 pm
With the presence of Boras, Choo would most likely decline the near $14 million dollar qualifying offer. Still though, ya never know what Wren will do if he is staring at so many potential free agents. Man hates multiple high draft selections……
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
12:50 pm
blogosphere
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
Enter your comments here
Efrim
December 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
but its not like a year of Choo at $14 mil would be an absolute disaster.
And even with near 10 players eligible for arbitration, they only have three players with guaranteed contracts for 2014: Upton -$14.05M, Uggla – $13.2M, and Laird – $1.5. Total of $28.75 million.
Mitchie-sand
December 3rd, 2012
12:53 pm
nolie is back? all is right in the world.
flange1
December 3rd, 2012
12:53 pm
I think Choo is the best guy for the Braves to go after IF they think that Gattis could be an answer in 2014.
I compare this to when the Braves traded for JD Drew and Eli Marero from the Cards. Braves gave up Jason Marquis, Ray King and stud prospect Adam Wainwright.
Drew had 1 year left of his contract and was a Boras guy just like Choo.
I am betting it will cost JT + Francisco.
I would pay that.
Then sign Reed Johnson and trade for Greg Dobbs and the team is set.
Bench = Schaffer, Johnson, Janish and Dobbs
2 good defensive players, 2 good offensive players.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
December 3rd, 2012
12:53 pm
Damn, Its Good To Hear Ben Ingram on the Buck and Kincade Show….
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
December 3rd, 2012
12:54 pm
Looks Like The Braves Are gonna Package R-Dell (Delgado) and a few other prospects In A Package to Arizona, Hopefully lil Andy Simmons wont be involved
JasonInFL
December 3rd, 2012
12:55 pm
I think T-Rex’s stock is way down, but I don’t trade him for one year of Choo.
JasonInFL
December 3rd, 2012
12:56 pm
what are you talking about, T-Hawkin?
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
December 3rd, 2012
1:00 pm
Agreed…Teheran could be turn into a Young Version of Pedro Martinez, but as of right now he reminds me of Jose Capellan…
So the verdict is out…
DAP
December 3rd, 2012
1:00 pm
TOBF He’s not a young ‘un who needs security, he’ll be 30 next winter.
only younguns need security? i would think a guy like prado who has made a decent living so far (about $9mil in MLB salaries) might be as interested in a multi year deal as anyone, and for the same reasons. as long as its a good price, i bet he’d do it. if i were wren, id offer him 5 years, buying out this arb season. make it 5 years, $45 mil or so.
Heath
December 3rd, 2012
1:03 pm
Tumbledown:
I think I read that as you repeating me to support your question to DOB as opposed to you asking me. Just checking.
brian
December 3rd, 2012
1:03 pm
any chance the Braves could swing a trade for Upton without including Simmons? Teheran, EOF, Ahmed and one other prospect??
Would that even put us in the ballpark?
Puma
December 3rd, 2012
1:07 pm
I think Prado would extend for 4-5 years in the $9-10 mil range, and he’d be worth it, dude was pretty awesome last year. Plus, not like we have a 3B coming up.
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
1:09 pm
Yes, Heath. Sorry for the confusion.
Ward
December 3rd, 2012
1:12 pm
Hello everyone – Latest on trade rumors……Ludwick, Shane Victorino, and Pagan is still alive…….All tagged to th Braves….
Mitchie-sand
December 3rd, 2012
1:12 pm
Morse is older than I thought and Choo is younger than I thought.
Ward
December 3rd, 2012
1:15 pm
Maybe Braves still get Choo, and Ludwick, Victorino, or Pagan. That might not be too bad? Upton is still alive, but Rangers are in talks too. Rangers are in talks with a lot of players….
ncscoots
December 3rd, 2012
1:15 pm
I wouldnt give up Teheran for one year of Choo.
Nor would I. There is no reason to give up a top 5 prospect for a guy in his walk year. That’s pretty much the definition of “overpay”, since the Indians could not reasonably expect two different teams to make such an offer.
Mixxo
December 3rd, 2012
1:15 pm
Don’t give up Simmons. Guy is HOF material.
DAP
December 3rd, 2012
1:17 pm
ward Upton is still alive
otherwise, itd be hard to pass the physical, im sure.
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
1:18 pm
Choo fits Wren’s stated desire of “younger and more athletic” than either Ludwick, Victorino, or Pagan. Would like to see a deal for Choo come to fruition if not too costly in terms of prospects.
Ward
December 3rd, 2012
1:18 pm
DOB – How certain are are about Choo? Just wondering if this mght be a smoke screen? No offense are anything…..
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
1:21 pm
Mixxo – Don’t give up Simmons. Guy is HOF material.
That is quite a statement. I hope your assessment of Simmons proves to be true (unless we trade him).
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 3rd, 2012
1:21 pm
Nice to see them putting a package together for JU… thatd count them out for ZG though. Id rather they trade Teheran though… both he and Delgado have same upside, but RD has done it at LB level. Id prefer to keep him.
I hope the Braves can extend Prado, I’d give him 5/50 or so… but surely he could beat that if he waited and went FA
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 3rd, 2012
1:21 pm
Nice to see them putting a package together for JU… thatd count them out for ZG though. Id rather they trade Teheran though… both he and Delgado have same upside, but RD has done it at LB level. Id prefer to keep him.
I hope the Braves can extend Prado, I’d give him 5/50 or so… but surely he could beat that if he waited and went FA
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
1:22 pm
Just read the the Indians are going after Victorino
JasonInFL
December 3rd, 2012
1:22 pm
Scott Lauber
@ScottLauber
@ScottLauber: More on Victorino: He’s said to be looking for a three-year deal at about $10M per season. #Phillies looking at other options
BravePack(FreeFan)
December 3rd, 2012
1:22 pm
Choo for me would be a last option kind of thing. I believe Wren is real hesitant to give up an arm for a player for 1 year. I’m still hoping we get an announcement of: Braves acquire J Upton for blah, blah, and blah but not Simmons.
Ward
C’mon man stop bringing us down with that Ludwick, Victorino crap. We don’t want aging players who are trending downhill.
ncscoots
December 3rd, 2012
1:22 pm
Would like to see a deal for Choo come to fruition if not too costly in terms of prospects.
I doubt he would trade one of the two guys expected to battle for the fifth starter spot next year, and I don’t think he’ll trade Bethancourt or Graham. So, figure out what’s acceptable from what’s left.
Ward
December 3rd, 2012
1:22 pm
I’ve been saying all along. I think Braves sign Vcitorino, and if it’s true about Choo? Maybe two players for the Braves.
JasonInFL
December 3rd, 2012
1:24 pm
Where are people hearing they are putting together a package for Upton?
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
1:27 pm
ncscoots – So, figure out what’s acceptable from what’s left.
How about Gilmartin and Cunningham? Probably not nearly enough for the Indians’ liking.
Mitchie-sand
December 3rd, 2012
1:28 pm
Where are people hearing they are putting together a package for Upton?– Jasonin FL
Their dreams.
JC Brave
December 3rd, 2012
1:28 pm
Where are people hearing they are putting together a package for Upton?
In Daydreamingland.
JasonInFL
December 3rd, 2012
1:31 pm
That’s what I thought…
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
1:31 pm
Is anyone else getting concerned that-if we make a trade-that our farm system is going to be wiped pretty clean. After the Bourn trade and Maholm/Johnson awful trade coupled with all the guys who have successfully transitioned to the big leagues. The Braves will not have the level of strengh in their farm system that probably everyone has been accustomed to.
Hopefully the new restraints on the draft will allow the Braves to draft players with this approach: Getting players that they want because of their talent instead of their price tag.
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
1:33 pm
The latest on Victorino from MLBTR:
12:29pm: Victorino has multiple three-year offers on the table, and even a four-year offer, according to Jon Heyman of CBS Sports
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 3rd, 2012
1:35 pm
my bad for listening to thawk…
scoots: Teheran straight up or + filler is too much? Teheran for 1 great year of Choo and a top40 pick sounds pretty good to me. Still got Delgado Graham and Bethancourt. Would Gilmartin + Spruill be nearly enough?
JasonInFL
December 3rd, 2012
1:35 pm
Royals entertaining offers for billy butler? he could get by in LF.
ncscoots
December 3rd, 2012
1:35 pm
Is anyone else getting concerned that-if we make a trade-that our farm system is going to be wiped pretty clean.
There wasn’t much high-quality depth there, to start with. So, my first reaction is, “So what?”
Not as if there are a bunch of guys being blocked, or anything.
brian
December 3rd, 2012
1:35 pm
wonder if the Braves would include Prado in a trade for Justin Upton?
unbelievable
December 3rd, 2012
1:35 pm
Dont see how anyone could look at the Maholm/Johnson or the Bourn trades as bad ones. Braves still have plenty of good pieces in the farm. Teheran, Delgado, Sims, Spruill, Graham, Bethancourt, Ahmed and more.
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
1:35 pm
The Latest on Victorino from MLBTR
12:29pm: Victorino has multiple three-year offers on the table, and even a four-year offer, according to Jon Heyman of CBS Sports
….looking more and more as if he will not be signing with the Braves
CB
December 3rd, 2012
1:36 pm
I hope we are not 1 of those idiots offering Victorino.
Mitchie-sand
December 3rd, 2012
1:36 pm
Why was the Maholm/Johnson trade awful?
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
1:36 pm
It must be so difficult to be the Braves’ GM (or any MLB GM for that matter). If Wren trades away either Teheran or Delgado in a big deal, that could start to create a problem with starting pitching. The supposed strength of the Braves going into the offseason could start to look susceptible if any problems develop with one or more of the starters. Yet, on the other hand, such risk taking could vault the Braves into being a major competitor for the WS title.
Wren, like every other MLB GM, is not perfect. But, if we ever truly put ourselves in his shoes, we might not be so quick to judge him so harshly.
Ward
December 3rd, 2012
1:37 pm
Latelast night Greinke was mentioned, and Braves have stated they are still in the hunt on him. Keep in mind that you could hear things change rapidly all day, until Thursday…..
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
1:38 pm
Dont see how anyone could look at the Maholm/Johnson or the Bourn trades as bad ones. Braves still have plenty of good pieces in the farm. Teheran, Delgado, Sims, Spruill, Graham, Bethancourt, Ahmed and more
Giving up our #3 prospect and a guy who throws 100mph for a #4 starter and a bench bat that you’d have for less than half a season is not a good trade in my view. Those two could have been had without giving up Arodys
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
1:40 pm
Per Rotoworld:
It looks as if the Mets are more likely to trade RA Dickey instead of re-signing him.
DAP
December 3rd, 2012
1:40 pm
TOBF I hope the Braves can extend Prado, I’d give him 5/50 or so… but surely he could beat that if he waited and went FA
maybe maybe not. look at michael cuddyer for reference. he got 3 year $30mil. now, tis not a perfect comparison, because by the time prado is a free agent, he will be 2 years younger and 2 years will have passed. but, they are similar players. so 5 year $50mil might get beaten, but maybe not.
Ward
December 3rd, 2012
1:40 pm
Could the Braves be the mystery team in on Greinke? Things are definately going to be interesting today.
Tumbledown
December 3rd, 2012
1:42 pm
brian – wonder if the Braves would include Prado in a trade for Justin Upton?
Doubtful. I do not think the Braves would have the $$ to sign a 3B and probably would be reluctant to hand the job over to Franscisco. More importantly, Prado is just so good for the Braves on the field as well as the clubhouse.
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
1:42 pm
Per rotoworld:
It’s looking more and more likely that the Mets are going to trade R.A. Dickey rather than re-sign him
ncscoots
December 3rd, 2012
1:42 pm
Royals entertaining offers for billy butler? he could get by in LF.
Well, he might remember what a glove looks like, I guess.
Were I the Royals, though, I’d just put the gun and the mask on the table where other GMs could see them, so they wouldn’t be surprised when I robbed them. All these Royals’ names being floated, these are pretty flippin’ good players, and none of them are old (Butler seems old, because he’s been around so long, but even he is only 26). I’d fight the urge to get antsy, if I could. If another GM wants to go big, great; otherwise, go home.
richbrave
December 3rd, 2012
1:53 pm
METS thinking DICKEY a one year wonder I bet. I would bet against that take myself. I think DICKEY’s just hit his stride, and is good for 3-4 more years with that knuckler.
TennesseePaul
December 3rd, 2012
1:54 pm
There is no reason to give up a top 5 prospect for a guy in his walk year. That’s pretty much the definition of “overpay”
Exactly. Feel the same way about Delgado and Simmons as well. None of those guys should legitimately be in the conversation. No other team would give up that much for the walk year of a 30 year old player.
Mitchie-sand
December 3rd, 2012
1:54 pm
A-ROD is trending on Twitter. His Hip? Not so much.
TennesseePaul
December 3rd, 2012
1:57 pm
Butler seems old, because he’s been around so long, but even he is only 26
He’ll be 27 next season, Gordon will be 29. In their prime I suppose, but not like some of those other kids they have… who run in at about 21.
tony austin
December 3rd, 2012
1:58 pm
Mets serious about trading RA. Trading the current Cy Young winner, I wonder when the last time that’s happened?
Not to mention David Price, if the Ray are seriously contemplating trading him.
richbrave
December 3rd, 2012
2:00 pm
“……Wren, like every other MLB GM, is not perfect. But, if we ever truly put ourselves in his shoes, we might not be so quick to judge him so harshly……” Tumbledown
Thanx for a bit of vision and humble good sense amidst the lunacy of comments decrying his efforts on this blog. Personally, I think he does good work.
Efrim
December 3rd, 2012
2:00 pm
I doubt he would trade one of the two guys expected to battle for the fifth starter spot next year, and I don’t think he’ll trade Bethancourt or Graham. So, figure out what’s acceptable from what’s left.
Yeah, other than 2012 draftees, there is probably a group of 3 or 4 prospects (and 2 young players that just lost that status) Wren would really like to hold onto. Simmons, Delgado, Teheran, Bethancourt, and Graham. Maybe a few of the lower level high upside latin players like Cabrera and Peraza.
I guess the thing with the Twins and Indians is that they have continued to draft polished, soft tossers throughout the last few years and it’s hurt their farm system. So, Sean Gilmartin isn’t going to appeal to them a ton I would think.
Efrim
December 3rd, 2012
2:01 pm
Guess it all depends on the return, but how much are the Mets going to get for Dickey? Even off of the Cy Young – it’ll be interesting to see what the offers are.
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 3rd, 2012
2:02 pm
Hope you are right DAP… would love to keep Prado here. If not, well, at least we get a qual. Ahmed can play 3B, Pastornicky 2B
Greinke… mystery team… please be the Braves, under 20mil though. Still gonna take some maneuvering to et that done unless theyre bluffing on payroll numbers. If we’ve got 15 to 20 mil, trade Maholm, go cheap in LF. If we have less than that, we’d have to move Uggla (not a fan of that) and give Juan the 3B job (definitely wouldnt like that). Hope they are bluffing. Many many ways for FW to go
ncscoots
December 3rd, 2012
2:06 pm
No other team would give up that much for the walk year of a 30 year old player.
On the other hand, Wren offered Delgado for Dempster, so that kinda muddies the water on who could be offered for whom.
I’m going Zeke, if they want a pitcher close, or one of the big-arm guys at the lower levels, if close doesn’t matter; something on those lines, and fill as needed in both directions.
Efrim
December 3rd, 2012
2:08 pm
Personally, I think he does good work.
Wren does fine work. Just wish he cared about the draft picks more, but they could just have the “screw it” attitude at the moment…..or at least, through all of his tenure.
JasonInFL
December 3rd, 2012
2:08 pm
Has FW invaded Towers’ suite yet?
Efrim
December 3rd, 2012
2:09 pm
On the other hand, Wren offered Delgado for Dempster, so that kinda muddies the water on who could be offered for whom.
I still can’t believe that was offered. But, he did end up giving up one of the three Latin arms for a pitcher.
BravePack(FreeFan)
December 3rd, 2012
2:11 pm
Where would the Braves get the $ for both Grienke and a LF’er? C’mon Braves are not in on Grienke…let’s get real. Unless they sign Grienke to a end loaded contract with $ coming in next year and go with the Great White Hope in LF this year…doubt it though.
Murph
December 3rd, 2012
2:12 pm
BP, the Braves could afford a backloaded Greinke deal… if they went after Myers or Stanton.
Puma
December 3rd, 2012
2:13 pm
Does anyone really want Grienke at >$20 million per season? I don’t think he is worth that, especially for the Braves. I do not think this is on Wrens radar, at least I hope not.
BravePack(FreeFan)
December 3rd, 2012
2:13 pm
JasonInFL
December 3rd, 2012
2:08 pm
Has FW invaded Towers’ suite yet?
Man I hope so Jason. Upton, Upton, and Heyward would be an awesome OF and a great offseason.
Puma
December 3rd, 2012
2:14 pm
“Heyman asked a Dodgers person about the team’s budget, to which the reply was, “What budget?”"
Sweet! That’s who we are competing against
ncscoots
December 3rd, 2012
2:17 pm
But, he did end up giving up one of the three Latin arms for a pitcher.
And while Vizcaino was my favorite of The Latin Trio, he still only had one working elbow when traded. That counts.
Time has value in these trades, and a lot of folks just sorta dismiss that component of them. In other words, wins today are worth more than potential wins in two years. Just as with money, current-day wins represent a larger value, over time, than future wins. No matter how good Arodys becomes, he will have to toil successfully for some amount of time before his loss is greater than the value represented by Maholm and Johnson in the present.
But I think Braveheart and I are the only folks who ever bring that up, LOL.
Arkansas Transplant
December 3rd, 2012
2:18 pm
They could easily afford a LFer if they were to sign Greinke… could you say Myers.. with Greinke on board it would allow them to be more flexible in moving Teheran and/or Delgado in some sort of trade.
P'cola Brave
December 3rd, 2012
2:21 pm
Guess I’m missing something but how can the Braves afford to sign Greinke without raising payroll $10 mil?
Patrick
December 3rd, 2012
2:24 pm
Heyman asked a Dodgers person about the team’s budget, to which the reply was, “What budget?””
Sweet! That’s who we are competing against
I remember back when that would have been an answer from the Braves to that question.
Sad…
TheOnlyBravesFan
December 3rd, 2012
2:24 pm
If we have closer to 20mil left to spend we can afford Greinke. Trade Maholm and get a young guy for LF/3B. Package Teheran and Maholm together, I’m sure we can get a good player.
Is Greinke worth over 20mil to us? Probably not, but he’d be close. We need the presence of a seasoned and current elite pitcher… we dont have that. I’d say that getting a good SP is more important this winter than next even though we’ll be losing 2 guys… they are mid-rotation starters. If he’d sign here for under 20mil, Id do everything I can to get it done.
CB
December 3rd, 2012
2:26 pm
P’cola, we are living in that fantasy world where Greinke will take 10mil less to sign with Braves. You know. That one.
Murph
December 3rd, 2012
2:26 pm
Glad Wren didn’t bite when the Rockies asked for Minor in return for Fowler. Bad idea.
P'cola Brave
December 3rd, 2012
2:27 pm
Where did the 20 mil come from? Last I heard we thought we had 14 ended up looking like 10?
TennesseePaul
December 3rd, 2012
2:27 pm
Wren offered Delgado for Dempster, so that kinda muddies the water on who could be offered for whom
And Sabean offered Wheeler for 2 months of Beltran. Insane, but I don’t think they are “precedent makers.” I’d be surprised if teams sited Wheeler for Beltran when trying to work out a deal in the off-season.
Murph
December 3rd, 2012
2:28 pm
If only Bourjos was still in play….
CB
December 3rd, 2012
2:30 pm
Agitating TOBF, Murph?
Ward
December 3rd, 2012
2:30 pm
Hot Stove on in 30 minutes, and Cashman press conferance in just a few minutes on Alex R.
P'cola Brave
December 3rd, 2012
2:30 pm
Wren is on the radio now.
ncscoots
December 3rd, 2012
2:30 pm
I’d be surprised if teams sited Wheeler for Beltran when trying to work out a deal in the off-season.
Good point. To do so would imply that the speaking GM did not think that was a bozo trade, thus creating speculation as to just how bad a deal would have to be for this jackleg to reject it.
That doesn’t exactly create great bargaining positions, do it?