9:50 pm November 25, 2012, by David O'Brien
Bob the Blogger
November 26th, 20124:44 pm
I agree, Swisher over Upton. Look at the OPS+ for the last four years:
BJ Upton – 82, 106, 114, 109
Swisher – -122, 129, 120, 126
Plus, Swisher is a switch hitter and has a .402 OBP against lefties. Still, I wouldn’t want to see Swisher signed for 4 years, but he might get that.
Pado will shift between LF and #rd, with Schaffer filling in in LF and Francisco filling in @3rd.
The 2 positions will be platooned between those 3 players, and occasionally Reed, and others.
At each year of biological age, BJ Upton has outperformed Swisher in WAR numbers, e.g., age 23, 24, etc.
He has more upside than Swisher. He gives both power and speed at a position, CF, where you don’t normally get both. That gives a bit more flexibility in searching for a LFer. His negatives are (1) OF jump/range, (2) OBP/K%. His positives are (1) power, (2) speed, (3) arm, and compared to Swisher, (4) youth.
I am a bit squeamish about Upton. But I would do it if he was accepting a reasonable offer, say 15 x 5 = 75. That would pay him through age 31-32. Four years to Swisher pays him through age 36 or so.
A deal is always a 60/40 proposition, or even 51/49. Is signing BJ better than not signing him? It’s hard to say. If you get a deal that you think is really a steal, then there is something about the deal you don’t know.
Got a buddy who’s a Detroit fan, apparently Laird’s nickname is “G-Money” for anyone interested. Has anyone come up with a good one for Simmons yet?
Players call him “Simba” (like the Lion King)
The Mets just landed Brandon Hicks.
Everyone is making big moves except the Braves!!
November 26th, 20124:45 pm
Murph, I feel your pain, too. Basketball was always my best sport (and I loved baseball a LOT more), but when they made dunking legal (showing my age again), it was all over for me.
November 26th, 20124:47 pm
Why would the Braves need to save money on their outfield in order to “pay someone to take Uggla off our hands”? You do understand that the ayment would be us paying part of what we already pay him and money from other sources would not be necessary to pay an additional bribe?
And BTW – They aren’t going to do it no matter what, anyway.
Teams are concerned about Dan Haren’s hip, not his back, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney reports (on Twitter). Haren’s bad hip won’t prevent teams from showing interest, according to Olney.
Jason Grilli and Stephen Drew are among the undervalued free agents remaining on the open market, Jim Bowden writes at ESPN.com.
Grilli would be a good get for our power RH reliever
November 26th, 20124:51 pm
flange1: I saw that picture of Lentz on FB…I’m going to print it out and put it on my dart board downstairs in the play room.
Schafer as a part of that three way platoon makes no sense. You need a RH hitting outfielder or it doesn’t work.
November 26th, 20124:57 pm
Please pick Philly Upton , we dont need you on the Braves .
Even though I still like Upton more than Swisher, I feel like this example illustrates one of the major shortcomings of WAR (in my mind). Due to the “positional adjustment” that is artificially applied to Fangraphs WAR numbers, Upton was given an additional 1.8 “runs” on his WAR last year, while Swisher had 8.2 “runs” taken away from him, based entirely on position! While I do see the merits of giving credit to those who play a more difficult position, I don’t think it’s appropriate to make that much of an adjustment between two outfield positions. Heyward also had a negative positional adjustment last year, but I think that anyone could see he would have been fine in CF, and could have had his positional “boost” knock his WAR up a little.
November 26th, 20124:59 pm
Swisher is not going to play CF, so even if the Braves are interested in him, they will still need a CF, and thyere’s no way that they will add 2 multi-year contracts @$15+ mil per season.
This is the Braves we are talking about.
Their local TV contract has them hog-tied. If they’d used the same thought process with the TV contract that they use for signing players, they would have a much better TV deal.
November 26th, 20125:01 pm
Whichever position we fill with the FA, the other one is still coming from trade. It’s easier to get cheap, natural CF than a LF. Get Swisher, trade for Span (or Bourjos)
November 26th, 20125:02 pm
Even if you believe that WAR is calculated in a valid manner, which I do not, the reality is that Upton’s last four years of WAR are 13.9. Swisher is 15.0. Your argument presumes that Upton will continue to improve, which is why you defined the argument with those parameters. I sincerely respect that you came at the debate from a factual perspective and with quality data to support your assertion. I disagree because A) WAR is the shakiest of metrics right now and B) I do not believe Upton is getting better.
What I see is a player with OBPs of .313, .322, .331 and .298. This is a player who does demonstrate enough fight in his at bats. Swisher is the polar opposite. His OBPs over the past four seasons are .371, .359, .374 and .364. His -worst- season in this regard is 33 points better than Upton’s best. Slotting a player like Upton in our lineup the next few seasons returns us to the same issue we had with Frenchy and, to a lesser extent, Sea Bass.
In fact, Gonzalez is a fair comparison because the argument in his favor was that he provided unusual power at a position of scarcity in this category. In our stadium, power hitters get negated somewhat as we have seen with McClouth, Uggla and Gonzo. Upton falls into that category. What never slumps, on the other hand, is the willingness to work deep counts and force pitchers to throw strikes. This is where Swisher’s candidacy becomes hard to ignore.
November 26th, 20125:05 pm
“Please pick Philly Upton , we dont need you on the Braves .”
Glad you are not the Braves GM….
November 26th, 20125:07 pm
“Whichever position we fill with the FA, the other one is still coming from trade. It’s easier to get cheap, natural CF than a LF. Get Swisher, trade for Span (or Bourjos) ”
No way to Bourjos. He may be ok for a 4th OF on this team but not starting CF.
Not sure where some are getting this “bad guy” stuff on B.J. Upton, but it’s not coming from teammates or Tampa Bay manager.
Err, does *not* demonstrate in the case of Upton.
Steve from OH
GV–good points, but Swisher is 32, and will be looking for a 4 (or more) year deal from what I’ve read. Upton will be 28 going into next season.
Don’t really have a horse in this race because I’ve not been following the offseason closely at all, but that age difference seems too large (to me) to simply put their stats side-by-side and evaluate their likely performance going forward.
November 26th, 20125:12 pm
Agreed. I don’t get where people get some of their info about BJ Upton from. Heard on here by some people that he doesn’t hustle and attitude is not up to par. Bunch of made up hogwash.
November 26th, 2012
Not sure where some are getting this “bad guy” stuff on B.J. Upton, but it’s not coming from teammates or Tampa Bay manager.
Quit favoring Upton DOB. BTW I am in the minority and am actually in favor of Upton. I think the saying “The Best is Yet to Come” applies in this situation.
November 26th, 20125:13 pm
Guys grow up. Maybe Upton had a temper or was agitated when things weren’t going well. But guys like Gary Sheffield had far worse reps before they came here, and Sheff was never a problem in Braves clubhouse.
I heard Bobby Bonilla was an arse, then he came to the Marlins and was one of the best guys any of us ever dealt with down there.
People change. Circumstances change. And as I’ve said before, some guys that fans believe to be good guys because they sign a ton of autographs or smile for the cameras are actually the biggest high-maintenance guys around, and some others viewed as unfriendly or whatever because they don’t smile a lot or exude artificial hustle, might be the best teammates imaginable.
Steve, I think that ages matters at least somewhat for a 28-year-old vs. a 32-year-old. It is only a small portion of the picture, though. The better player for the next couple of seasons is still the goal. I have said the same thing about Willingham. We will worry about depreciation with age when the signs occur. What we know about Upton right now is that he isn’t very good so the idea of making him one of if not the highest paid player(s) on the team terrifies me.
November 26th, 20125:16 pm
No way to Bourjos. He may be ok for a 4th OF on this team but not starting CF.
Per Bill James- .262/.316/.411, 13 HR, 57 RBI, 88 runs, 24 SB (613 ABs) Similar to what he did in 2011 when he was healthy and starting everyday. I would agree with that projection. He’ll cost under a mil and play near Bourn-level defense.
BJ Upton- .248/.329/.436, 23 HR, 88 runs, 75 RBI, 35 SB (648 ABs). I’d say that that’s about what he’ll be, though the OBP may be a bit lower. Below average defender in CF. 16mil or so, and the loss of a 1st round draft pick.
November 26th, 20125:18 pm
DOB, have the Braves had any talks with KC about any of their current or future players that you know of? Seems like they and MN are the best trade partner fits out there, and we know that the team has already dropped Span’s name (right?).
November 26th, 20125:22 pm
“Per Bill James- .262/.316/.411, 13 HR, 57 RBI, 88 runs, 24 SB (613 ABs) Similar to what he did in 2011 when he was healthy and starting everyday. I would agree with that projection. He’ll cost under a mil and play near Bourn-level defense.”
Bourjos numbers in 2011 were definitely nothing to write home about. Wren is going to sign/trade for two proven, and high caliber players this offseason. He has the money to spend and will spend it and not trade for a guy who has proven nothing so far in the Major Leagues.
GV–I don’t disagree at all with the premise of your argument, but I think the difference of a guy who is still in his prime vs. a guy who is entering his mid-30’s isn’t all that small.
Some guys do well with age, some slowly taper, and some just fall off the cliff.
Like I said, have no idea which one I’d want (given the choice), but the age would be an issue for me.
Otis Redding–top flight talent that had an untimely and way too young death. Dock of the Bay is my favorite by him.
November 26th, 20125:25 pm
So what you are saying DOB, is that some of us are much tougher to deal with than Upton
November 26th, 20125:27 pm
USA Baseball manager Joe Torre’s six-man coaching staff for WBC includes #Braves icons Dale Murphy (first base coach) and Greg Maddux (pitching coach, along with Marcel Lachemann). A third ex-Brave, Gerald Perry, is the hitting coach.
Maybe Torre, himself a former Braves player and manager, is trying to get back in Atlanta’s good graces after upholding that infield-fly ruling.
(just kidding…sort of)
November 26th, 20125:29 pm
How would you feel about the Braves getting free agent Jeff Keppinger? I was thinking that he and Juan Francisco could platoon third. Then we could keep Prado in left field. That leaves us with a pile of cash and trade pieces to get a centerfielder. My choice for that role would be Denard Span. I think we could make a trade for him. That leaves us with a pile on money for a blockbuster July trade that could really put us in the drivers seat. And also is good insurance if we have any injurys. Just a thought what do you think?
November 26th, 20125:30 pm
DOB- I agree; I think he’s tremendous upside; Heck, I remember about Angel Pagan w/ the Mets, the knock on him was bad work ethic, mediocre, not very good defensive skills, lazy, horrible attitude, not a good teammate, yet the Giants took a chance on him & he had a great year, & nothin’ but Love for the guy. I saw it in all the Giants celebrations during the postseason. Before last season, he wasn’t even thought of, now look at ‘em, everybody’s hoe’n the Bravos to land ‘em. People judge so much on here byn the books cover, upton’s young, a different venue might spark him up Big Time!
November 26th, 20125:31 pm
.247/.301/.402/.703, 97 OPS+ with a great defender is unproven, but .242/.316/.420/.736, 102 OPS+ and a poor defender is proven talent. And worth an extra 15mil in salary. And that’s including Bourjos’ poor seasons, something I doubt he’d do with regular playing time.
Bourjos 2011 season was something to write home about… his OPS+ was 116. Except for 2011, Upton hasn’t reached that. Closest he came was 114, last year. And for plain old OPS, Bourjos was at .765. Upton hasn’t hit that since 2008.
November 26th, 20125:33 pm
“fumble fingers again” my bad,”hoe’n;hope’n”;’byn,by” sheesh!
November 26th, 20125:35 pm
With half his games played at Turner Field, BJ Upton would hit about .235, 17 homers, drive in 75 runs and strikeout well over 150 times a season.
All this for $15 million a season?
“.247/.301/.402/.703, 97 OPS+ with a great defender is unproven, but .242/.316/.420/.736, 102 OPS+ and a poor defender is proven talent. And worth an extra 15mil in salary. And that’s including Bourjos’ poor seasons, something I doubt he’d do with regular playing time.”
I understand your not a BJ Upton fan, but when a team has the money to spend like the Braves do this offseason and with the departure of a great cornerstone in Chipper Jones, the Braves are going to sign a couple of huge pieces out on the market or via trade. That’s just the way it is. If this was in years past and the Braves had 5-10 million to spend in the offseason, then yes a trade for Bourjos might be entertained. But with $30 million to spend this offseason, I can promise you that they won’t trade for Bourjos.
Maybe Torre trying to get back in Atlanta’s good graces after upholding that infield-fly ruling.
Quit pouring salt, that wound hasn’t closed yet.
@Jimiz; Keppinger’s always intrigued me too.
Oh, and if you like WAR, Bourjos was worth 4.8 WAR in 2011… Upton’s highest was 4.1 in 2007. Then, add in that Bourjos has always been worth 1+ dWAR, and Upton’s always negative or near 0…
November 26th, 20125:39 pm
“The Mets just landed Brandon Hicks.
Everyone is making big moves except the Braves!!” – Murph
Not true – Jordan Schafer !
“Some guys do well with age, some slowly taper, and some just fall off the cliff.”
Where I disagree is that this is exclusively based in age. Any player can suddenly lose their skill at any time. Marcus Giles is a tremendous example of this. He was never the same after 27. The same has been true of McLouth.
For my purposes, I want to start with the player who has the higher starting point since even if he does slip, his new normal may still match/surpass the lesser player. With Upton, we’re wishing and hoping for improvement. As someone who has watched Tampa since Rocco Baldelli’s MLB debut, I know that they made the same wishes regarding Upton, ones that never came true. He’s their Frenchy.
Still hoping the Phils make a really stupid offer to Upton. Braves will be making a huge mistake if they sign him. Baseball has changed since the steroid era. We need more players who make contact. Upton will lead the team in strikeouts. Any option on the table is better than Upton. Saw signs that Uggla is finally getting that contact thing late last season. I predict a much better year for him in 2013. He will be surprised how many home runs he can hit to right center by just concentrating on contact. Upton will never get that. Come on, Phils!!
November 26th, 20125:40 pm
DOB; About Torre; You’ve probably have a valid point. I’m sorry, I don’t have no respect for the man, & ATL probably doesn’t hold a whole lot of appreciation for him either.
I understand that the Braves will likely make the poor decision of signing BJ Upton… I’m just correcting your errors.
Bourjos numbers in 2011 were definitely nothing to write home about.
I said that I’d rather get Swisher (an expensive FA) for LF, and get a natural CF. I’d feel more comfortable with that. We’re not getting 2 FAs. I’d rather trade for a CF and play them in CF than trade for a CF and move them to LF. BJ will not be moving to LF.
As for him not being a starting CF… the Angels thought he could be one. They opened up a spot for him. He’ll be theirs for the forseeable future. We won’t be getting him. I’m just gonna be showing off how well he’s doing at the ASB, Sept. 1, etc. Will be more fun when BJ isn’t producing for much of the season, which is what he usually does.
November 26th, 20125:41 pm
Upton+Uggla = a whole lotta strikeouts and solo HRS
“Quit pouring salt, that wound hasn’t closed yet.”
And it never will. I’d still punch Kent Hrbek in the face if I ever saw him on the street.
November 26th, 20125:45 pm
Marcus Giles is a tremendous example of this. He was never the same after 27.
Amazing how some players fell off the performance cliff after the league started testing for PEDs, isn’t it?
Upton+Uggla = a whole lotta strikeouts and solo HRS
Yes, but their right-handed!
Just saw that the Rays gave Evan Longoria a 6 year extension for $100 million. He has 4 years left on his current contract so they have locked him up for the next ten years at a total of $136 million. Anyone out there doubt that Longoria could make more than an average of $13 million per if he waited for free agency? Of course he could, but he wants to be a Ray for his entire career. Sounds like Chipper to me. Now that Chipper is gone, the Chipper haters may begin to realize how much he valued team loyalty over making as much money as possible. Evan Longoria just became one of my favorite players.
November 26th, 20125:46 pm
In the last 4 seasons (24 months of play), BJ Upton has posted an OPS over .720 11 times….
Heck, swisher might help, kinda hope to find some spark & grit.
November 26th, 20125:57 pm
Dude we get it, you are not a fan of Bossman Jr. You want the Braves to go get Grienke and Bourjos, which isn’t going to happen. It puts the lotion in the basket.
November 26th, 20125:58 pm
GM’s around baseball see BJ Upton as a premium player, hence the reason he is the top free agent outside of Josh Hamilton. I believe I would trust the judgement of a GM as they have many first hand resources to view. I would trust a GM’s point of view over some sabermetric scale for sure, not even close.
“Amazing how some players fell off the performance cliff after the league started testing for PEDs, isn’t it?”
Heh. No comment. I always liked the Giles brothers.
November 26th, 20126:00 pm
Let’s robodoso & clone 3 or 4 prado’s, that would fill the void, might just give us a series. 1.Prado cf 2. Prado 3b 3.Heyward rf 4.Prado lf 5.Freeman1b 6.prado c 7.Uggla 8.Simmons ss There ya Go. So spend for clonning.
November 26th, 20126:05 pm
Would Love to clone 10 or 13 prado’s, but may go against the budget, Liberty might sue the Braves brass for overspending.
November 26th, 20126:06 pm
I know that Medlen has yet to pitch 140 innings in a season yet. However, I feel the Braves would be fools trading him.
Medlen is very economical on his pitches. While it takes Tommy Hanson 100 pitches to labor through 5 innings…Medlen can get through 7 or 8 innings on 80 pitches.
Medlen’s added value is on how he saves the bullpen. I feel that he has it in him go to 200 innings per year…because of the potential for less stress those additional innings will have due to him being very economical with his pitches.
During the final two months of the 2012 season, not only were the Braves unbeatable in Medlen’s starts, the he saved the Braves bullpen.
NO MORE FREDI
November 26th, 20126:15 pm
Upton, Ugla, Lowe, Kawakami
Should I continue? Frank is a joke!
November 26th, 20126:16 pm
So I’m guessing this will mean that the Braves will fall back from being middle of the pack – ranked 15 or 16 in payroll – to more like 20-22 range in the next five years or so?
@Efrim — Have I not been saying that the whole time since tht article broke out. I have been warning you — is comming so enjoy the good yrs that are left.
Simple math is that if our payroll stays flat and other teams grow revenue and add payroll, we are going to fall in the bottom 10 at least, maybe even lower than that.
November 26th, 20126:20 pm
Dentz is going off on the FB page, 3 long posts in a row. Wonder if they can ban him over there, too?
November 26th, 20126:23 pm
All the hating on Upton reminds me of the talk last year about the braves possible getting Adam Jones from the Orioles. Everyone said he was over-rated and etc. Look at the year he just had. Sometimes players can turn it around and you never know…Upton might just do that.
@Golden Sombreros — Best post of the day. If BJ is such a bad guy and negative influence than why are so many GM’s (some of whom have had extrordinary success) going after him.
Now, I would be happy going either route with either Swisher or BJ, but both are coveted & will be an assett here.
NO MORE FREDI…..Good 6:15pm post. Dont forget about trading for Nate McLousy, as well as re-signing Chipper Jones for $42 mil over 3 years when he turned 38.
Dont forget about sticking with Greg Norton for all of the 2009 season, even though he stunk up the place as a pinch hitter. I still believe that Norton’s inability to do anything other than drawing a walk…cost us a chance to make the play-offs in 2009.
November 26th, 20126:27 pm
Disgusted, Adam Jones did have a good turn around season. However, I think that he’s the exception, no the rule. For every Adam Jones you have….you have a plethora of Jeff Francoeur’s, Austin Kearns, Jair Jurrjens, Edison Volquez’s, etc. (young players who start off on fire…then struggle for a couple of years…never to revert back to their early success).
There are two things that you can count on every day –
A group of fans who are Will Myers chasers and the other group who are Uggla haters.
The Myers chasers will go away when he breaks the KC lineup but the Uggla haters can be silenced only by a Fla Marlins verison of Dan.
It is what it is.
Expand Instant Replay
November 26th, 20126:30 pm
I have heard many times, from different fans on different websites that Bj Upton has an “attitude problem.” Never really having seen him play, I would like to know more about this problem in detail. Has he been selfish, lazy, or not a team player? Does he not listen to or respect his manager, coaches, and teammates? I’m no baseball expert but i just dont know if he would be the best fit…And that all goes without saying that i DO realize his “numbers” have been mediocre (at best) and not impressive at all. The Braves dont need another strike out specialist!
November 26th, 20126:32 pm
The Myers chasers will go away when he breaks the KC lineup
The Royals have told the world that the #1 OF prospect in baseball is available for SP… I don’t know that there’s much chance of him breaking into the KC lineup anymore now that he’s on the block.
Too few decent OF in the FA market, too many teams needing OF help. Whether it’s the Braves or someone else, I think he’s gone.
BJ is better than Francoeur and as for Austin Kearns, his career got derailed cause of iinjury and was never what he was supposed to be.
I put BJ more on a par with Adam Jones than those two. He’s a different player now in that he sacrificed OBP big time for HRS, XBH and RBI’s.
I don’t think he is a .298 OBP type of guy, he can keep his power and add another 30 points to that.
November 26th, 20126:37 pm
I live in the Tampa Bay area. Upton will not take coaching. He is lazy, has been benched for lack of hustle several times by Rays manager. Will not hit behind a runner, always swinging for the fences. Braves do not need his baggage. Could be a .300 hitter with his speed if he would concentrate on making contact and hitting to all fields. Won’t do it!
” I believe I would trust the judgement of a GM as they have many first hand resources to view. I would trust a GM’s point of view over some sabermetric scale for sure,”
Yeah, Dan Uggla is the future. I’ll have whatever your drinking, man.
November 26th, 20126:38 pm
Disgusted, the thing that concerns me about Upton is him turning into Dan Uggla (low batting average…average, at best, power numbers).
If he can put up good power numbers, I can live with the low batting average and low walks. We dont need another Dan Uggla (paying him $13 mil a year to walk 100 times).
It will take a knock your socks off type of deal to get Myers, guess Dayton Moore has his price.
He should ask for the moon for the alleged top prospect in the game as of now.
He will want someone young, somewhat proven with upside and under control for some time.
If I were Moore the only guys I would want are either Minor or Medlen and FW is not going to do that. I am not sure I would either. But FW better not be listening to anyone around here.
There might be another team who could give more, cannot think of one off the top of my head.
November 26th, 20126:39 pm
@M1ke McDermon11: “I know that Medlen has yet to pitch 140 innings in a season yet. However, I feel the Braves would be fools trading him.”
Fools Indeed!! Keep Medlen!
November 26th, 20126:42 pm
You got a point Mike Mc Dermott — that might happen but then in any big deal there is risk in everything.
On the other hand both he and Uggla might have big time yrs — no real way of knowing till they get out there and play. That is why they talk to prospective FA’s and take notes from their scouts.
The scouts are the backbone of the operation. This day in time the guys on top have to pay some attention to the analytics, but you have to have a mixture of the two. Scouts advice is never going away. Neither are the analytics.
November 26th, 20126:45 pm
“And that all goes without saying that i DO realize his “numbers” have been mediocre (at best) and not impressive at all. The Braves dont need another strike out specialist! ” – Expand Instant Replay
What more needs to be said about BJ Upton. If Wren signs this guy the Braves will be doomed for years while the Nats get better and the Phils re-tool.
Frank Wren, please don’t tie up the payroll with another albatross you won’t be able to get rid of !
November 26th, 20126:48 pm
“On the other hand both he and Uggla might have big time yrs — ” – Disgusted
How many more years will we have to wait on Uggla to have a big year ?
Paul Lentz is on DOBs facebook page rambling…
November 26th, 20126:51 pm
DOB has been quiet on Josh Willingham lately; he must have given up home on him.
Gotta stir up fan interest with BJ Upton.
DOB, can’t you get us excited about somebody good ?
November 26th, 20126:52 pm
Is ther any possibility of Swisher signing with ATL? Would be a nice fit.
November 26th, 20126:57 pm
Disgusted, part of the problem with your 6:42pm post, is that you have faith in the Braves scouts (or in Frank Wren’s ability to properly use them).
As I stated before, he gave a 38 year old Chipper Jones a 3 year/$42 mil extension…..signed Derek Lowe to a 4 year/$60 mil contract….signed Kenshin Kawacrappy a 3 year/$23 mil contract…traded for Nate McLousy…..traded for Dan Uggla and signed him to a 5 year/$65 mil contract.
Either fire Braves management…or fire the scouts..or fire both. That’s over $200 mil in contracts that could have been better spent.
Our success in competing for a play-off spot the past 3 years…was in spite of Braves management ineffectiveness. Kind of like how the Dallas Cowboys won the Super Bowl in 1995 despite having Barry Switzer as head coach.
November 26th, 20126:59 pm
Speaking of the rambling idiot…..
November 26th, 20127:04 pm
I think Jeff and Juan would be great. Jeff is right handed and hits righties good. While Juan can be used against lefties. I hope the Braves don’t overpay for either Upton. I’f i had two choose between the two i would go for Justin. If the Braves can get Justin and Span that would be great. I just don’t see that happening we don’t have the trade pieces for that. BJ is not worth the money we might as well keep Bourn atleast he kills to birds with one stone. BJ will never be a lead-off hitter we need speed at the top of the line-up. Victorino can still play center and hit lead-off although he is getting older. I would rather have Span so we can sign him for 5 years and forget about lead-off and center for a while. And have money left over.
November 26th, 20127:07 pm
GM’s around baseball see BJ Upton as a premium player, hence the reason he is the top free agent outside of Josh Hamilton.
Same GMs who want to give Bourn 18+mil over 5 years, the ones who were offering Crawford insane amounts of money, gonna give Greinke over 20mil… yep those GMs. They’re always right.
November 26th, 20127:09 pm
I really wish there was just better free agents out there. Make things much simpler.
I think four years age difference is pretty significant, and especially when one of the players will be signed up for his age 32-35 year old seasons.
And I like Swisher as a player, just liked him a lot more four years ago when the Yankees acquired him for next to nothing.
November 26th, 20127:11 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan…agree with your 7:07pm post. Carl Crawford was a terrible signing. The Braves are paying Uggla and McCann a combined $25 mil in 2013..and we have no idea if they are really going to produce.
Signing BJ Upton to a $15 mil per year plus contract…would be foolish.
November 26th, 20127:13 pm
S/O DOB on your 5:07 post. Here is “the bad guy stuff” on BJ. Lazy in outfield, can’t get along with teammates.
During the 2008 season, Upton was twice disciplined by Rays manager Joe Maddon for lack of hustle. On August 6, Upton was held out of the lineup for failing to run out a ground ball the night before. On August 15, Upton was benched in the sixth inning for not running out a double play ball. He was replaced by Justin Ruggiano. A few days later, Upton hit a ball to left field that bounced off the wall. From the crack of the bat, Upton reacted to it as a home run, dropping the bat and casually jogging down the first base line. He then tried to stretch it into a double and was thrown out by the left fielder. He was not benched for this incident, however. Joe Maddon was interviewed and called it “just a mental mistake”.
During the Rays’ June 27, 2010 home game against the Arizona Diamondbacks, Upton loafed after a ball hit by Rusty Ryal into left-center field, allowing a double to become a triple. At the end of that half inning, Evan Longoria approached Upton in the dugout, obviously to mention his displeasure with Upton’s effort. Upton immediately became irate at the criticism and argued face-to-face with Longoria, repeatedly pointing a finger in his face, until Longoria walked away while Rays player Willy Aybar grabbed Upton by the waist and took him away from the scene.
November 26th, 20127:15 pm
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
Only 10 teams in baseball have not given out $100M+ contracts: ATL, Arizona, Baltimore, Cleveland, ChiSox, KC, PIT, Seattle, Oakland and SD.
November 26th, 20127:16 pm
Post by George George tells you all you need to know about B J Upton. Hope Frank Wren reads this blog!
November 26th, 20127:17 pm
Why does Dentz always lose it in the Winter? Snowstorm keeping him inside or something?
“…..signed Derek Lowe to a 4 year/$60 mil contract….signed Kenshin Kawacrappy a 3 year/$23 mil contract…traded for Nate McLousy…..traded for Dan Uggla and signed him to a 5 year/$65 mil contract”
Throw in Rafael Soriano for Jesse Chavez and Mark Teixeira for Casey Kotchan, and Frank Wren’s overall recordd would be grounds for termination in any major sports market.
In Frank Wren I DO NOT TRUST !
November 26th, 20127:19 pm
It would be cool to play with Josh Hamilton.
He & I have stuff in common !
Hey Dentz, how about them Cowboys? How do they stack up to my Niners now? And didn’t you say they would lose to the Saints last year in the playoffs? Right……
November 26th, 20127:20 pm
I can understand the worry about his age, I don’t like signing guys who will be getting into their mid 30s at the end of the deal… too risky, but Swisher is probably only getting 4 years. He’ll give you 2 really good years, 1 decent year, and probably be going toast in year 4. Upton will be a sustained “poor” throughout. To me, it’s a question of taking 2-3 years of .268/.367/.483/.850 (124 OPS+) production, and then a poor year to finish the deal, or 5-6 years of .242/.316/.420/.736 (102 OPS+) production. Ignore perceived issues with play, likeability, whatever… which player would you rather have. I’m taking the first one, and that’d be Nick Swisher.
I’d still rather have this though: .286/.362/.485/.846 and a guy who’s likely to go beast next year (Justin Upton) or this .303/.395/.522/.917 (minor-league numbers, Myers)
November 26th, 20127:21 pm
Mike and George you are both spot on. O’brien has to carry te water for the braves but this promoting of Upton is beyond the pale
November 26th, 20127:22 pm
George George and Lentz are idiots.
November 26th, 20127:23 pm
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