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6,190 comments Add your comment
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:35 pm
The fact that Medlen was better says more about how unconscious he was than anything about Minor.
I’d argue it says more about small sample sizes than it does about the abilities of either.
Gone Viral
November 29th, 2012
3:36 pm
“Sure, if the ceiling was a mid-rotation starter”
Like Clayton Kershaw, David Price and Cliff Lee…
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
3:37 pm
(I’d also add in the caveat of not allowing in season trades, as we should all be aware, such deals have different costs).
Can you explain?
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
3:37 pm
However, forgive me for finding the sited trade as an reasonable example of why a team in the Braves situation would not do the same.
Tell you what. Maybe you can find us GV’s deal, in which a team, any team, traded their top prospect (a top 10 minor leaguer) plus at least two others of their top five prospects for a starting pitcher with 30 starts total.
Oh, yeah, they don’t have to be a contender.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:37 pm
The Red Sox should take that offer and run. Same for the Rays with Shields.
Neither side will. I suspect if Myers is trade it will be with other players.
Gone Viral
November 29th, 2012
3:39 pm
“I’d argue it says more about small sample sizes than it does about the abilities of either.”
Oh, I think that’s absolutely valid but even in sizing up fictional trades, recency is everything. If we did want to bring in Justin Upton, it’s much “easier” right now than it would have been a year ago when there was a smaller sample size. His coming off a season where he had finished 4th in the MVP vote would have jacked up the price.
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
3:39 pm
Like Clayton Kershaw, David Price and Cliff Lee…
Not understanding. Are you suggesting that the 3 months Mike Minor provided in the 2nd half cements his status as an elite LH starter in the major leagues. You really are his Dad, and it’s why I have trouble ever agreeing with what you say.
phil
November 29th, 2012
3:39 pm
Tumbledown
November 29th, 2012
1:33 pm
Value = Contributions to World Series ring
I don’t necessarily agree with this equation. For example, Pendleton surely provided the Braves with tremendous value during his time with the Braves starting in 1991. He became a star with the Braves in 1991 and 1992. However, he was not with the team in 1995 when the team won it all.
****************
Good point. Value = many things but normally not lots of strikeouts.
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
3:41 pm
I’d argue it says more about small sample sizes than it does about the abilities of either.
In the small career samples of both pitchers, Minor has a 4.37 ERA in 53 starts and Medlen has a 2.81 ERA in 30 starts. I guess Medlen would stink enough in his next 23 to match Minor, but I’m guessing this would not be the case. They aren’t on the same level and their statistical performance to date proves this.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:42 pm
Can you explain?
There is a difference in trades made at the deadline and trades made in the winter. And generally, it is non-contenders to contender trades, which would naturally preclude them from the quest. But I suppose if you don’t see the difference in the way GM’s deal in season vs off-season I’m not sure what to say. But, I’d love to see an example of a contender trading away a starting player for a minor leaguer with no experience down the stretch drive.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:44 pm
Maybe you can find us GV’s deal
Who’s GV?
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
3:45 pm
There is a difference in trades made at the deadline and trades made in the winter
Okay, just confused based off of your statement because Marcum was traded two winters ago, eve of the Winter Meetings. And it seemed like you thought the larger bounty would occur in July? But then you said not allowing in season trades. Just not understanding.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:45 pm
In the small career samples of both pitchers,…
I’d agree. And I’d use the career numbers of a half season. Otherwise, why not pull the HoRam Rule… “If you ignore the injuries and bad starts, he’s actually really good.”
Bay Area Steve
November 29th, 2012
3:45 pm
“You really are his Dad”
First, that was low, and beneath you.
Second, how many Minor posts has each of you made? I’d submit you’re ahead, about 25-1.
Third, what percentage of total Minor posts here is yours? I’d argue at least a third.
Fourth, please don’t be offended my by “tone,” again.
Finally, if GV is Minor’s Dad, what does that make you? His biographer? With OCD? Snorting meth in a Motel 6?
DS1
November 29th, 2012
3:46 pm
I’d sure feel a lot better if we could lock up Reed Johnson. But my guess is that someone overpays and he goes elsewhere.
Murph
November 29th, 2012
3:46 pm
You know what I find gross? People with gummy smiles. You know the type… when they smile their upper lip seems to travel way up the front of their face, leaving behind 2 inches of gums with little tiny teeth at the end.
Gross.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:46 pm
And it seemed like you thought the larger bounty would occur in July?
No. Just that I started remembering a bevy of mid-season trades where teams fell out of contention and were perfectly fine dumping starters for minor leaguers.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
3:46 pm
GV is our buddy, Gone Viral. Efrim’s foil.
DS1
November 29th, 2012
3:47 pm
I’d send Medlen to KC for Myers in a half a heartbeat.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:50 pm
please don’t be offended my by “tone,” again.
Finally, if GV is Minor’s Dad, what does that make you? His biographer? With OCD? Snorting meth in a Motel 6?
He means that in the best possible way. Just imagine the best way one can view an OCD motel 6 resident snorting meth, and that’s the positive flow of energy and happiness he means it in.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:51 pm
Ah. My mind was folding under the weight of pouring through all the GM’s in history finding the initials then all their deals… why did I get myself into this… glad I have a stock of beer in the fridge.
flange1
November 29th, 2012
3:52 pm
Awesome BAS!
Bay Area Steve
November 29th, 2012
3:52 pm
Exactly, 10P.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:53 pm
I’d use the career numbers of a half season
meant to say, I’d use the career number over the half season… or instead of the half season… or in preference to the half season.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
3:53 pm
glad I have a stock of beer in the fridge.
I’m just messin’ with you. There’s no need to look, because you won’t find one.
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
3:53 pm
First, that was low, and beneath you.
Disagree. When he compares Minor to Price, Kershaw and Lee, he is his Dad, or biggest fan.
Second, how many Minor posts has each of you made? I’d submit you’re ahead, about 25-1.
Given that he is rarely posting here and I always am, I’d say that’s probably correct.
Third, what percentage of total Minor posts here is yours? I’d argue at least a third.
I think that’s high. Way high.
Fourth, please don’t be offended my by “tone,” again.
Archives: June 9th, 2009 blog. First two comments after he was drafted #7 overall. “Mid. Rotation. Starter.”
Finally, if GV is Minor’s Dad, what does that make you? His biographer? With OCD? Snorting meth in a Motel 6?
You’re coming off as an ass here. Relax, Steve.
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2012
3:54 pm
I asked B.J. Upton if he and his brother have talked about playing together, if that’s something they want to do. He said absolutely, that they talk about it a lot and hope that it happens when Justin is a free agent in three years, if not sooner.
phil
November 29th, 2012
3:54 pm
ncgary
November 29th, 2012
2:57 pm
man been out in the yard doing yard work
havent used oxygen in a long time , i feel good
somebody must be doing some heavy duty praying for me
cause according to my docs
i was sposed to be dead by now
********
By “name” every night for months now….fwiw
Glad things have improved!
What has happened to Nolie?
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
3:54 pm
That’s actually more of a Random task anyway.
DS1
November 29th, 2012
3:56 pm
Any word from Sneaky Pete or Big Jake on nolie’s whereabouts?
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
3:56 pm
TP, did you know that the Marcum/Lawrie trade was in the winter? Still not sure what you meant.
CrαZy
November 29th, 2012
3:56 pm
I highly doubt the Braves paid 20 million more than the Phillies were offering…
1. By releasing that kind of info BJ’s agent might hurt relationships with the Phillies front office and as an agent he wouldn’t do that.
2. The Phillies aren’t going to come out and admit the Braves beat them out. So they come out and say they offered significantly less meaning the player only picked the Braves because they overpaid.
DS1
November 29th, 2012
3:57 pm
Also, we should definitely deal for Justin so we could have the Upchuck Brothers in LF and CF. Most definitely!
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
3:58 pm
Any word from Sneaky Pete or Big Jake on nolie’s whereabouts?
Was thinking this too. At first, I thought he was just heated about Bossman. But it’s been a while since I saw any of his posts.
Murph
November 29th, 2012
3:58 pm
Any word from Sneaky Pete or Big Jake on nolie’s whereabouts?
Yeah, seems like nolie hasn’t been on in a long time.
Hope he’s ok.
Murph
November 29th, 2012
3:59 pm
My guess is that the Phillies offered Upton $75mil, the same as the Braves. Upton preferred Atlanta, so he said “Beat them and I’ll sign today”, so the Braves added $250k and everyone was happy.
phil
November 29th, 2012
4:00 pm
I worry for him because that diabetic thing leads to such heart issues and so forth….
But surely not.
phil
November 29th, 2012
4:00 pm
Maybe nolie is that lentz guy….
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2012
4:01 pm
DOB….tough question to the guy….given a break….he’s a good kid — Juan
Wait, so now I’m being criticized for asking a tough question?
Gotta love this blog.
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
4:04 pm
DOB – Any word on the breakdown of the dollars throughout the deal?
Gone Viral
November 29th, 2012
4:05 pm
“Maybe you can find us GV’s deal, in which a team, any team, traded their top prospect (a top 10 minor leaguer) plus at least two others of their top five prospects for a starting pitcher with 30 starts total.”
I think that this is a clever attack on the premise. The problem is that you also prove the point with the statement. Teams do not trade topflight starting pitchers who are this far into their careers. They hold on to them for Erik Bedard scenarios. That way, they get cheap seasons *and* the prospects. The Gio Gonzalez trade was unusual for just this reason. Oakland dealt him after only a bit over two years on the arb clock when he had already accumulated 89 starts. In return, they received four players, three of whom were on Washington’s top 10 prospects list.
DS1
November 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
I hate it when DOB goes ballistic in interviews!
Gone Viral
November 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
“Not understanding.”
You understand perfectly. You just hate that a guy you tore down for years is making you look bad right now.
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2012
4:07 pm
Heyward came to B.J. Upton’s press conference today. J-Hey said he’s excited about the move and direction of the team.
phil
November 29th, 2012
4:07 pm
Wait, O’Brien asked a tough question?
Here? Somewhere?
DS1
November 29th, 2012
4:07 pm
Gotta run. Maybe we’ll be announcing a second Upchuck deal when I return………..
nolie: Get ur azz back in here old fart!
Gone Viral
November 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
“GV is our buddy, Gone Viral. Efrim’s foil.”
I’m no one here’s foil. I am, however, Nolie’s #1 fan.
phil
November 29th, 2012
4:09 pm
Heyward is excited that Chipper retired….
Maybe Upton will work out, but in case he doesn’t, I need to start thinking of nicknames.
Gone Viral
November 29th, 2012
4:11 pm
“Just imagine the best way one can view an OCD motel 6 resident snorting meth”
So Marlon Wayans in Requiem for a Dream.
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2012
4:11 pm
Wren said signing Upton continues a mission “to get younger and more athletic…and able to play the game the way it’s being played today.”
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
4:13 pm
I think that this is a clever attack on the premise.
Actually, it is not. You have clearly put a value on the player, and I was asking if a similar valuation had ever reared its head before.
This is the same question posed by TennPaul re Myers, simply reversing the players.
This conversation, by the way, has not been about a trade, so much, as it has been about the value of the components. At least, I think…at this point, I’m not sure how far we’ve drifted, LOL.
Gone Viral
November 29th, 2012
4:14 pm
Wait, Nolie is sick? I had no idea. Does anyone have further details?
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
4:14 pm
You just hate that a guy you tore down for years is making you look bad right now.
4.37 career ERA through 53 starts. Fail to see how he’s making me look bad. And when the statements I made were that he was a potential mid-rotation starter and that I disagreed with that sort of safe, signable selection in the Top 10.
But please, keep comparing him to Cliff Lee, David Price and Clayton Kershaw. You’re just making yourself look bad with those statements.
PuddyCat
November 29th, 2012
4:14 pm
the $250K was the ego massage to make him the highest paid Brave in history. Best spent 250 ever.
Steve from OH
November 29th, 2012
4:17 pm
So what’s the general feeling on the Upton signing from the blog?
Long time, no read…
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
4:17 pm
“to get younger and more athletic…and able to play the game the way it’s being played today.”
Man, we’re already pretty darn young.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 29th, 2012
4:17 pm
DOB
What is your initial impression of Bossman? BTW I thought you asked some really good questions.
phil
November 29th, 2012
4:17 pm
I didn’t say nolie was “sick”, just that he has had issues, one of which is being diabetic. If he disappears for days, it’s normally not like him.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
4:18 pm
Nolie’s been gone since the 19th, Pete since the 18th. Havent seen Jake
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
4:19 pm
Long time, no read…
You’re just in time. What are your thoughts on Mike Minor? Price, Kershaw, Lee – would you ever consider him worse than these pitchers? Take your time. It’s a tough one.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
4:21 pm
So what’s the general feeling on the Upton signing from the blog?
Love it, hate it, good player, toxic scrub, like that.
I do not believe we have a consensus yet, but I haven’t seen the edges of the pages curling into blackened ash. Might be hope for the guy.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
4:22 pm
did you know that the Marcum/Lawrie trade was in the winter? Still not sure what you meant.
yes. I’d completely forgotten about the trade, obviously, so I was looking at it…. and because when it was presented I believed it was an excellent excuse for me to go peruse transaction logs for players.
And, as I was doing so, the Zack Wheeler deal came into mind, but that was not an off-season trade, hence I typed my mid-season caveat.
Steve from OH
November 29th, 2012
4:23 pm
You’re just in time. What are your thoughts on Mike Minor? Price, Kershaw, Lee – would you ever consider him worse than these pitchers? Take your time. It’s a tough one.
Ha, really? Someone must really love them some Polished..
I do not believe we have a consensus yet, but I haven’t seen the edges of the pages curling into blackened ash. Might be hope for the guy.
Interesting. Didn’t think the signing would go over well here at all. But, I’m sure some of the fanfare is simply a function of him being a “big-name” free agent, which in and of itself can placate the masses.
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
4:25 pm
And, as I was doing so, the Zack Wheeler deal came into mind, but that was not an off-season trade, hence I typed my mid-season caveat
Yeah, but that was just stupid and crazy….
Lew
November 29th, 2012
4:25 pm
Sometimes it’s fun to just sit back and watch.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
4:25 pm
What is your initial impression of Bossman?
Excellent question.
I have a follow up, during the press conference was their any point when it appeared BJ was dogging it or just not hustling?
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2012
4:26 pm
That statement right there about getting younger and more athletic spells out the end to the Brian McCann era in Atlanta….
BMac is about as unathletic as you can get
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
4:28 pm
Yeah, but that was just stupid and crazy
Exactly, hence my “such deals have different costs”…
I’ll be damned if my week long rant against a starting pitcher for one minor leaguer was going to be undone by Brian friggin Sabean
Fols
November 29th, 2012
4:28 pm
I bet Heyward is excited, all of these guys should be. We have a fairly young group up and down the line-up, there is no Chipper Jones farewell tour to stop these guys from having some good old fashion youthful fun in that clubhouse.
Whether that helps or hurts performance….i’m going to guess the Chipper retirement and a hopeful season without a platoon brings us more consistent production.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
4:29 pm
Interesting. Didn’t think the signing would go over well here at all.
There’s some concern about the performance risk, but Shaun allayed those worries earlier. Well, kinda. Said he was looking forward to the unwashed moaning about Upton’s low BA and Ks while he provided plenty of (apparently unnoticed) value with “everything else”.
I think he found this potential scenario humorous, despite the probability that it would be deleterious to the Braves’ season.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
4:29 pm
10P
Minor is better than Price, Kershaw, Lee…. at pitching like a #4 max. Only time it’s better to have Mike is if those guys are hurt
Lew
November 29th, 2012
4:30 pm
Only three players older than 30 (Hudson, Maholm and Uggla) unless they bring Martinez (30) back or sing someone older for the bench.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2012
4:30 pm
Wow….
Breaking…
Nats have just acquired Denard Span….more to come….
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 29th, 2012
4:31 pm
Good one 10Paul. He did look like he wasn’t exuding much energy just sitting there doing nothing. Even so he did display more energy and hustle in that presser than we saw out of Loaf all season.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
4:31 pm
I’ll be damned if my week long rant against a starting pitcher for one minor leaguer was going to be undone by Brian friggin Sabean
OK, that made me laugh.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 29th, 2012
4:32 pm
Alright Gordon it is or Fowler maybe?
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2012
4:32 pm
Twins just aren’t making much sense to me….
Wanted a lot it seemed from Braves for Span but settled on….
Alex Meyer?!
DONT DEAL WITH TWINS EVER AGAIN FRANK!
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
4:33 pm
Only three players older than 30 (Hudson, Maholm and Uggla)
Well, that’s good. I was beginning to think they wouldn’t have anybody old enough to know where the road-trip strip clubs were located.
Lew
November 29th, 2012
4:34 pm
scoots – There is always something to be said for experience.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2012
4:35 pm
While a solid spec, I’m not certain Meyer is any better than 5-6 guys we could offer….
This also signals the end of the Adam LaRoche era in Washington AND eliminates another team off Michael Bourn’s list….
I think LaRoche would fit really well in Boston FWIW….
Bourn….not sure where he lies now….Phily? Cincy? Mystery team?
Puma
November 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
Was just thinking about Hanson’s tradeability – I wonder what other teams perception of him is (well aware of our own here on the blog). Because he is still young, 1st year arb eligible, and probably a better option than some of the 2nd tier FA pitchers out there like Dempster. Either way, there is still valued there given age and contract status.
I mean the Cubs gave Scott Feldman (who I have never watched BTW) $6mm base salary next year with these stats: 5.09 ERA, 7.0 K/9, 2.3 BB/9 and a 42.2% ground ball rate in 123 2/3 innings.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
I’m alright with that. I wasn’t for Span too much and I wasn’t against. If Braves got him cool if not no big deal. Now Wren can go get Justin and unite him with his brother.
Richie
November 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
So I guess Bourn is going to Philly? Cincy or the Yankees?
Murph
November 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
Freeman and Teheran for Stanton
Sign Laroche
Win World Series a couple of years in a row
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
4:37 pm
This also signals the end of the Adam LaRoche era in Washington
I certainly don’t see that as a bad thing. Span replaces LaRoche? Thank you, Nats.
VaBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
4:37 pm
We really missed the boat on Span who was added by the Nationals for only 1 Prospect. Wow
Puma
November 29th, 2012
4:38 pm
Nats get Span for who, A ball pitcher??? I thought they wanted MLB experience guys
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
4:39 pm
While a solid spec, I’m not certain Meyer is any better than 5-6 guys we could offer….
What makes you think the Braves offered anything? They may have cleared the table when Upton signed.
richbrave
November 29th, 2012
4:39 pm
BORAS needs to get his client a landing spot soon. The options are drying up fast.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2012
4:39 pm
With Cincy looking to move Chapman to the rotation and saving money there, I’d expect them to make a sizeable play for Bourn….
I think he’d fit in fairly well there, but once again make another team lefty heavy
Murph
November 29th, 2012
4:39 pm
Wait wait wait…
Alex Meyer is a minor league player with zero MLB experience. Denard Span is a starter. Teams don’t trade starters for minor league players without experience…. so, that trade did not happen and Span is still available.
cricket
November 29th, 2012
4:40 pm
Span replaces LaRoche? Thank you, Nats.
i was hoping they lose Morse
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 29th, 2012
4:40 pm
If that’s all the Twins got for Span it kind of tells me Wren probably didn’t offer much and wasn’t willing to. He must have other plans for LF…much bigger plans.
RC
November 29th, 2012
4:40 pm
Wanted a lot it seemed from Braves for Span but settled on….
Alex Meyer?!
DONT DEAL WITH TWINS EVER AGAIN FRANK!
We don’t know WHAT the Twins wanted from the Braves. IMO, if they are willing to make trades like this, then I hope Frank deals with them every chance he gets!
And the Phillies options continue to dwindle…
RemoW
November 29th, 2012
4:40 pm
Is it possible the Nats got Span for a mino
r league pitcher? Hanson or Terhan or both together should have, at least, caught the Twins attention!
VaBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
4:43 pm
Maybe Frank Wren is planning on adding more power for LF and settling with Prado at Leadoff. But still Span is a gold glove caliber defender and legit lead off man, for him to only net the Twins 1 pitching prospect seems very crazy. If I’m a Twins Fan I would be irate right now. Why take so little it’s not like the guy has a high salary and so on. Bonehead move.
VaBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
4:46 pm
Keith Law on BJ signing in ATL
B.J. Upton’s five-year, $75 million deal with Atlanta looks like a winner for both sides. It’s a solid return for a player coming off a disappointing year, while the team gets the top position player available in free agency this year for his ages-28-to-32 seasons, meaning they get most of his offensive peak without locking up much of his decline phase and don’t have to worry too much about him losing enough defensive value to have to move out of center field.
In Upton, Atlanta gets an above-average defender in center with plus raw power and some past history of plate discipline, although he became much more aggressive in 2012 in what I assume was an effort to boost his power numbers as he headed into free agency. Upton can’t touch Michael Bourn’s glove, but he’s less of a dropoff than any other possible successor to Bourn and makes up for the defensive drop-off with his power, although he’s never been able to translate that raw ability — which should produce 30-plus home runs — into performance over a full season, with 2012’s total of 28 his new high.
Upton had been a patient hitter prior to this season, with an OBP of .346 in his five full seasons as a starter before 2012 and walk totals ranging from good to outstanding, so there’s performance upside here if he returns to his old ways of working the count. There is still performance risk with Upton, who’s only had one season, 2007, in which he put all of his offense skills — power, patience and speed — on display at once, but he still has the physical tools and has shown all of those abilities separately over the years since that breakout season.
Murph
November 29th, 2012
4:46 pm
Precedent has been established now… minor league player with zero major league experience traded for an MLB starter.
Minor for Myers, straight up, make it happen before the end the day tomorrow. Don’t just sit there staring at me, get to work Frank!
unbelievable
November 29th, 2012
4:46 pm
Id rather have Willingham from the Twins than Span.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
4:47 pm
Glad this blog isn’t in charge of trades. The entire farm would have been depleted for Span and Myers, with the bulk of it going in the Span deal.