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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,190 comments Add your comment
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
12:31 pm
Because of Medlen’s potential, I’d be less willing to trade him for Myers, I’d rather do Minor, but Frank, and Lew, seem to have a love affair with this soft-tossing lefty with #3-4 potential. He’d give the Royals 4 years of control on a good young pitcher and we’d get to sell high. He’s replaceable by Gilmartin (if you want a lefty), and Teheran/Delgado are ready as well. Wood may be ready by late 2015… we’ll be fine for having lefties in the rotation.
Medlen has potential, but as of now is just a #3. He just pitched like an ace though, so we could sell high there. And since we have another guy who we want to call an ace (Beachy) back in 2014, if we wanted to sell high on him, we could. Gain 3 years of control.
There’s always Justin Upton if you wanted to get the proven guy, but I’m sure that Myers (and Olt) will be the RH version of Heyward at the plate. Get them.
DAP
November 29th, 2012
12:31 pm
by the way, andrelton simmons…what do you think we will get from him this season? his weakness was supposed to be his bat, but didn’t see what i expected from him. he certainly doesnt get the bat knocked out of his hands. he hits the ball hard. i actually think he is going to turn into a good situational hitter, and someone you can depend on to handle to bat well.
simmons, prado = contact hitters, uggla, upton = free swingers with power, heyward, freeman, mccann = complete hitters (power, avg, obp). Thats a pretty good mix, so far. i wonder what we will get for LF. i could go for another prado/simmons type.
richbrave
November 29th, 2012
12:32 pm
98.5
Murph
November 29th, 2012
12:34 pm
Uggla had 94 walks last season and 19 HR…. if the team were to trade him (not that I’m saying they would or should), they certainly wouldn’t have to cover the entire amount owed to him to get it done.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
12:34 pm
I’m not as high on Simba’s hitting ability as Bill James is… though he did impress me last season in the few games he played. I’d really prefer that he stays in the 8hole to start the season though, he only played in 49 games. .250/.320/.400 sounds good from him.
jimmy
November 29th, 2012
12:34 pm
The Royals 2b suck more, they have stated they want a good starter. If they want Meds vs. say Hanson then Uggla is worth it o them. Bear in mind if we take back Francouer the Royals are getting Uggla and Meds for a net 9 million. We save the 9 million, get THE NUMBER 1 RATED PROSPECT IN BASEBALL
jimmy
November 29th, 2012
12:35 pm
And we already have replacements for both called Delgado and Ahmed.
CrαZy
November 29th, 2012
12:35 pm
I’d rather go with Gattis in LF than any of the less-than-premium options that are out there. – Murph
You mean you don’t like the idea of a McLouth / Johnson Platoon in LF?????
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2012
12:36 pm
Lmao….
Morosi is quite funny….
And really….you didn’t like Upton but you’re talking about Mark Reynolds there TOBF…..
Cmon now….
jimmy
November 29th, 2012
12:37 pm
I would Minor instead if the Royals would do that.
DAP
November 29th, 2012
12:38 pm
TOBF I’d really prefer that he stays in the 8hole to start the season though,
me too. if he isnt hitting 8th, then im afraid about who else we have in the lineup.
.250/.320/.400 sounds good from him.
i agree though i think avg and OBP will be a little better than that. if he can maintain a .400 slg% then id say thats a win. heres the thing…he isnt a slap hitter. dude swings hard and makes contact. very much like martin prado. i think he might end up better with the bat than expected. still want him to hit 8th though.
Gone Viral
November 29th, 2012
12:40 pm
I’m at the point right now where I would be fine with the Braves shutting down for the moment. We will assume that the gap is in LF, the easiest position to fill. Let’s see where the market takes everyone and then take another look in mid-January. Veterans without jobs are always desperate to get picked up at that point. Just because we have surplus pitching doesn’t mean we have to do anything at the moment.
I actively dislike the Upton acquisition due to his OBP issues but his presence means that between J-Hey and him, we have two guys who can cover enough ground to play solid outfield defense. If Ernesto Mejia or Evan Gattis or some cheap acquisition can play well enough to earn a job, we pocket the surplus and wait to see where injuries take us in terms of 2013 needs. Then, we still have the depth to deal from a position of strength then. The asking prices for players are always highest in December and early July. There is no point in pushing for anything during a seller’s market.
Lew
November 29th, 2012
12:40 pm
“If they don’t come back we’re screwed”
Did you perhaps miss the part where it was mentioned that even in their absolutely, by far and wide margins, they were still among the top offensive performers in the league at their positions? How much further back will make you happy? First only in every category?
Oh yeah – and with their worst perormances and their drop to the top third in the league, we managed to win more games than all but four or five teams in MLB? Not to mention Chipper missing 50 games.
God help the fan base if the Braves truly sucked as bad as some here believe they do.
phil
November 29th, 2012
12:40 pm
Trade Upton for Scott Rolen…
Lew
November 29th, 2012
12:42 pm
Should have posted – “by far and wide margins their worst year”.
Murph
November 29th, 2012
12:42 pm
You mean you don’t like the idea of a McLouth / Johnson Platoon in LF?????
If I see Nate attached to any Braves rumors I’m going to dispatch the 4 year old to, shall we say, sway the Braves into reconsidering.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 29th, 2012
12:43 pm
Because of Medlen’s potential, I’d be less willing to trade him for Myers, I’d rather do Minor, but Frank, and Lew, seem to have a love affair with this soft-tossing lefty with #3-4 potential. He’d give the Royals 4 years of control on a good young pitcher and we’d get to sell high. He’s replaceable by Gilmartin (if you want a lefty), and Teheran/Delgado are ready as well. Wood may be ready by late 2015… we’ll be fine for having lefties in the rotation. Medlen has potential, but as of now is just a #3.
You’re kidding, right? Last time I checked, 91-93 mph didn’t constitute a soft-tossing lefty. And you really want to give up left-handed pitching when we’re the same division with Harper, Utley and Howard (and probably Hamilton after the Phils sign him). Minor pitched like a solid #2 the second half of last year. He keeps that up, he could be one of the top lefties in the whole NL. And calling Medlen a #3 just makes me angry. I’m not even going to respond to that.
You guys do understand how rare it is for a pitcher to come straight out of the minors and win games. Why in the world would you want to take 2 guys that have already worked past that adjustment period and have some potentially great years in front of them (Medlen and Minor) and replace them with a new crop of rookies that will probably struggle out of the gate. What happened to Jurrjens and Hanson is unfortunate, but it’s not cause to trade “high” on every young pitcher after they have a good run of success before the inevitable crash and burn.
Murph
November 29th, 2012
12:48 pm
And calling Medlen a #3 just makes me angry. I’m not even going to respond to that.
Introducing the new Insta-Ace! Just add Tommy John surgery, 12 starts, and watch him grow!
* Disclaimer – Actual size of your Insta-Ace may vary somewhere between 5 and 6 feet tall.
Tumbledown
November 29th, 2012
12:48 pm
I have been reluctant to advocate the signing of B.J. Upton. However, I am warming to it because there is alot of talent there, and the Braves will have him for his prime years. By contrast, it seems that many long-term free agency signings involve older players who will end their contract well outside the so-called prime years.
Hopefully, the Braves can acquire a steady-eddy type of player for LF to kind of balance out the lineup. I often see players characterized in terms of their ceiling and floor levels. The Braves as a whole next year seem to me to becoming a higher ceiling/lower floor than this year’s team. I am a bit more excited, though, than I was yesterday.
Lew
November 29th, 2012
12:48 pm
Lemke’s – Consider the source – a (by his own admission) 17 year old that obviously isn’t in school and has no job as he’s posting here more than anyone else and at all hours of the day and night, who believes because he understands a group of esoteric formulaed equations thinks he understands baseball, yet consider that those of us who have followed the game closely for over 55 years know diddly compared to him.
jimmy
November 29th, 2012
12:49 pm
Lew for 13 million dollars , yes the catcher and 2nd baseman should be number 1 at their positions. Their production could be replace for a fraction of the cost. And both are horrible on defense. No the team is not atrocious but when you have the ability to upgrade your team, fill your needs, and plan for the future in a middle market budget , you have to have the balls to do it. And lets not get confused we lost in the first round of the playoffs. Settling for that without understanding that you can’t tread water to win a swim meet is a bad sign.
Lew
November 29th, 2012
12:52 pm
You just don’t eat tons of salary on every player who has a down year after signing a long term deal and you don’t sell high on every player who actually had a good year or showed considerable improvement because you didn’t think it was for a long enough period of time.
Lee in S GA
November 29th, 2012
12:54 pm
DOB ….have you heard any indication from the Braves that may have them interested in obtaining a 3rd baseman instead of a player for lf and leave Prado in the outfield?
Slowhiteguy
November 29th, 2012
12:54 pm
Braves are far better off keeping two affordable, above avg pitchers that could slot into any rotation in baseball. Medlen and Minor are not going anywhere, period.
Lew
November 29th, 2012
12:55 pm
jimy – Maybe you haven’t seen the level salaries are rising to. Both Mac and Uggl;a put up some considerable numbers to get to those contract levels – one down year doesn’t mean they’ve lost it. And like has been said numerous times – even withthos down years, the Braves were still one of the best teams in baseball and Uggla and Mac among the best players at their positions.
You need to realize that you just don’t cut and run when something doesn’t go your way. If you do, the end result is running in circles.
Slowhiteguy
November 29th, 2012
12:56 pm
Medlen a solid two starter, Minor a four currently with three or maybe even two starter upside.
George_George
November 29th, 2012
12:56 pm
David O’Brien
November 28th, 2012
10:43 pm
Upton presser expected tomorrow afternoon after his physical. And by the way, I hear that brother Justin will be with B.J. Not visiting with the Braves or anything, but just here with him to celebrate the contract or whatever.
********************
Our only hope is he fails physical. I just checked posts from last nite, with the signing I was sure nolie would post, but he did not, I hope he is ok.
jimmy
November 29th, 2012
12:57 pm
I wasn’t advocating eating ANY salary. They could’ve released McCann for nothing. I would not eat Uggla’s salary either. And I am not saying trade a pitcher because he has done well. I am saying trade him because you can get a haul for him, at a position you have need, when you have more starters than you do need.
Jeff R
November 29th, 2012
12:57 pm
The Braves aren’t dumping or trading Uggla. As Lew mentioned, the Braves aren’t going to eat Uggla’s salary now, anyway. Too much left on his contract. And who takes Uggla for anything in return of real value (and that includes the Braves eating a large chunk of Uggla’s salary) for him?
The Braves are hoping and counting on Uggla bouncing back to his pre-2012 norms.
Brava
November 29th, 2012
12:58 pm
George, he has passed the physical.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
12:58 pm
Lemke’s, I can’t help it, I’m laughing at Murph’s 12:48. Sorry.
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
12:59 pm
B.J. Upton – $15.05M
Dan Uggla – $13.2M
Brian McCann – $12M
Tim Hudson – $9M
Martin Prado – $7.7M
Paul Maholm – $6.5M
Tommy Hanson – $4M
Eric O’Flaherty – $3.8M
Jason Heyward – $3.5M
Kris Medlen – $2M
Gerald Laird – $1.5M
Jonny Venters – $1.4M
Paul Janish – $900K
Cristhian Martinez – $700K
14 players – $81.25 million
Nick
November 29th, 2012
12:59 pm
Victorino would be the best bet for LF IMO. Fowler is terrible away from Coors. Span is good defensively but overrated by Braves fans offensively. He is a 280 hitter with low SB totals, no power, and avg OBP. Gordon, Willingham, Myers, and J Upton aren’t getting traded and Ludwick and Cody Ross don’t offer much defensively or offensively away from GAB and Fenway, respectively. Pagan is good but he is 31, hasn’t proved enough, and wants too much.
Victorino would offer good defense in LF, fit in at the leadoff spot, and steal 30+ SB. He would also provide a little power and hit around 10 triples. He’s the best fit in my opinion and could be had for $9/$10M over 3 years one would think. Discuss.
Tumbledown
November 29th, 2012
1:00 pm
I wonder if the Upton signing will have a positive effect on Uggla, in that some focus may be taken off Uggla having to produce as the only real power RH bat. Perhaps Uggla can relax a little and, as a result, put up some numbers similar to his Marlin years.
Lew
November 29th, 2012
1:03 pm
jimmy – First of all, I don;t see the Braves acquiring Myers to begin with – I actually see no reason he’s blocked from the Ropyals starting lineup as some suggest or why they would trade him anyway if he’s as good as he’s believed to be.
And suppose you DID trade either Medlen or MInor. Yes, you COULD replace them with Delgado or Teheran – they are both pitchers and could fill a position in the rotation. But who would replace Medlen or Minor? You trulyu believe that one of Delgad, Teheran, Gilmartin or whoever else we might throw out there is even to the point of development of either Meds or Mike?
kenhotlanta
November 29th, 2012
1:04 pm
P-Town Brave @ “The statement was that if you have watched for a long time, you find that wrestling is never as good to someone as it was when they first started watching…..you keep reminiscing about what was good then and what isn’t now….but the ideal spot is to realize that everything changes over time and nothing will ever really be as good as it once was in your mind….”
That was indeed a good conversation last night about wrestling. I think when you first start watching, you have a sense of wonder and tend to believe everything the announcers are saying and that, of course, has no bearing on reality. But it lasts for a long time until you begin to figure out what is going on.
Once you get familiar with the product and the participants, you tend to focus on your personal favorites and when they start moving around to other areas, you lose touch with them for awhile and they may return in a completely different role; and that is something that takes time to adjust to.
I actually looked on wrestling as a soap opera and I enjoyed the storylines and, especially, the interviews and talking between matches because it was so creative and funny when you are dealing with great mouths like Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Buddy Landel, Macho Man, Jim Cornette, Bobby Heenan, etc.
I just think it is the nature of the beast to like what you first saw and downplay the current edition and I don’t watch it at all anymore for that reason.
It’s the same as when I was a kid in the 50’s and the Atlanta Crackers were the local team and there was only one Major League game on TV every Saturday. I didn’t understand the talent level process and the fact that the Crackers were in a Double A league, 2 levels below the Majors. In my young mind, they were my heroes and better than players on the Dodgers and Yankees…I worshipped Bob Montag, Buck Riddle, Ebba St. Claire, County Brown, Dick Sinovic, Bob Hartman, and on and on. Most folks on here have never heard of any of these guys, but I have their pictures, autographs, programs, etc. and they mean as much to me as my Herschel Walker, Dale Murphy and Chipper Jones autographed pictures.
Just my 2 cents worth. Selah.
Slowhiteguy
November 29th, 2012
1:05 pm
Tumbledown…and the same can be said about Upton relaxing in Atlanta….
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
1:07 pm
12 starts doesn’t make Medlen or Minor aces…. sorry.
You’re kidding, right? Last time I checked, 91-93 mph didn’t constitute a soft-tossing lefty.
88-90 does. That’s where Minor usually is by the 3rd or 4th.
calling Medlen a #3 just makes me angry. I’m not even going to respond to that.
12 starts, man. Coming off of TJ. 30 starts for his career, never pitched more than 140 innings. Too soon to call him an ace.
Nick
November 29th, 2012
1:07 pm
Victorino, Prado, Heyward, BJ, Freeman, Uggla, Mac, Simmons could be one of the best 3 lineups in the Majors.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
1:08 pm
Victorino would offer good defense in LF, fit in at the leadoff spot, and steal 30+ SB. He would also provide a little power and hit around 10 triples.
Did you watch him play last year, even a little bit?
What happened to Jurrjens and Hanson is unfortunate, but it’s not cause to trade “high” on every young pitcher after they have a good run of success before the inevitable crash and burn.
Absolutely correct. But isn’t that just the opposite side of the coin from declaring inexperienced starters The Next Coming? Do people just not remember guys like Francisco Liriano and Ubaldo Jimenez, guys tagged as the next great thing off one excellent season?
Outsized expectations are probably just as bad an idea as expecting a good season to be followed by falling off a cliff. The truth is somewhere in the middle for most guys, but, damn, ain’t none of that goin’ on ’round here, bubba.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
1:10 pm
Minor pitched like a solid #2 the second half of last year. He keeps that up, he could be one of the top lefties in the whole NL.
Yep. He pitched like a 2. He isn’t a 2, and isn’t projected as one. It’s unlikely that he keeps it up.
Nick
November 29th, 2012
1:11 pm
Ncscoots – I did and even in a down year he stole 39 bases and played good defense. His avg will pick back up to his career norm and he’s good for 15 hr.
DAP
November 29th, 2012
1:14 pm
another free agent to consider would be kevin youkilis. he had a down year, but may not be done. we are probably looking for a LFer not and 3rd baseman, but still, youkilis might provide alot of value for his price tag. even in this down year he destroyed lefthanded pitchers. i would put him on my FA possibility list along with victorino or cody ross.
for trades i would consider michael cuddyer if hes available. id still try to pursue willingham, or span. maybe shin soo choo.
Nick
November 29th, 2012
1:14 pm
Minor had one of the lowest ERAs post Allstar break. Maybe he’s just figuring it out. I think he slots in nicely as a solid #3 with a chance of being a #2 in the next couple years. Medlen, Hudson, Minor, Maholm, Delgado will be just fine until Beachy is back then you’re talking about a top 5 rotation IMO.
Tumbledown
November 29th, 2012
1:15 pm
I agree ncscoots. I am certainlyno expert, but it seems to me that every player has his own unique career arc. You cannot expect what happened to Jurrjens to happen to every other young Braves’ pitcher. Conversely, good showings from Medlen, Minor, and Beachy do not signal the next coming of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz.
old man
November 29th, 2012
1:16 pm
Obviously, this was mentioned, but I can’t find it, but here (again) is Bill James on Andrelton Simmons, 2012:
.289/ .351/ .416/ .767, 18 SB, 10 HRs, 49BB, 59K.
Sounds like a lead off hitter to me.
wheelz007
November 29th, 2012
1:17 pm
Here are my thoughts on the Upton signing, and how it affects our team:
First of all, Dan Uggla will no longer be the highest paid Brave. And he’ll benefit greatly from it.
In fact, I’ll predict that we’ll have a much better Dan Uggla next year…. .265 with 33 homers and 90-100 rbi.
Don’t forget that Jason Heyward and Freddie Freeman are still young and will be better.
Heyward .275 with 30 homers and 90-100 rbi.
Freeman .265-.280 with 25 homers and 90 rbi.
Prado will hit his normal .305 and he’ll score 90-100 runs.
MAC will come back healthy (at some point), and he’ll swing a big bat for us too.
BJ Upton makes this an even more dangerous line-up. I’m sure he’ll struggle. He’s switching leagues and now has the pressure of being our highest paid player. But he’s an really good athlete with speed and power and he plays a solid CF.
All Wren has to do now is make the trade for a solid lead-off type LF and we’re set.
2013 Braves will have a very dangerous, productive lineup.
And the pitching staff will do it’s part: Medlen, Hudson, Maholm, Minor and our bullpen: Kimbrel, Venters, EOF, etc.
Yes, we overpaid for Upton but he’s the type of player we needed and Wren got him.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
1:17 pm
Yes, Minor did figure it out… but he’s not a guy who’s gonna pitch to that 2.14 ERA over a full season. He has pitched in 54 games, these last 15 games was his first stretch of games that he pitched to an ERA under 4. He got hot and pitched lights out. Great! But let’s not get ahead of ourselves and call him a #2 and the next coming of Glavine. He’s still a young ‘un.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
1:18 pm
I did and even in a down year he stole 39 bases and played good defense. His avg will pick back up to his career norm and he’s good for 15 hr.
Wow. Well, if they sign him, I hope you’re right. But I was timing his bat with a sundial, by the end of the year. He looked well and truly cooked, unless he was hurt and no one knew it.
Jeff R
November 29th, 2012
1:18 pm
Yep. He pitched like a 2. He [Minor] isn’t a 2, and isn’t projected as one. It’s unlikely that he keeps it up.
Minor gained as he pitched last season. Showed a lot of tenacity in the face of adversity. I think he’s a better pitcher than some are estimating, but, yes, he’s got more to prove.
Tumbledown
November 29th, 2012
1:19 pm
A Victorino of old would be a great addition to the Braves’ lineup. An “old” Victorino not so much.
DAP
November 29th, 2012
1:19 pm
yeah, i dont think victorino is done at the ripe old age of 33.
Shaun
November 29th, 2012
1:19 pm
It’s going to get very interesting when Upton has a low batting average and lots of strikeouts but is still very valuable because he’s doing everything else pretty well. It’s going to be entertaining, perhaps funny, to watch that firestorm. I’m sure the folks in the front office will have a field day laughing at all that.
old man
November 29th, 2012
1:22 pm
I wonder about just going with Gattis/Francisco/Prado/Constanza/Reed platoon, and then make a deal mid-season with a desperate or losing team.
It’s not my first choice at all, but at a minimum, this is a fallback strategy if Wren just sees nothing that grabs his attention next week. He has that option, and everyone knows he does. So, for yet another reason, Wren has put himself in a really great negotiating position vis a vis other teams.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
1:23 pm
valuable how, Shaun? a .316 OBP doesn’t lead to much value… maybe his below avg. defense will help.
Tumbledown
November 29th, 2012
1:23 pm
Maybe so, Shaun. Obviously, the front office will even be more giggly if Upton taps into his vast potential and puts up lights out numbers across the board.
DAP
November 29th, 2012
1:24 pm
First of all, Dan Uggla will no longer be the highest paid Brave. And he’ll benefit greatly from it.
he never was, wheelz.
phil
November 29th, 2012
1:24 pm
I’d much rather see Nate and Diaz platoon in left….
DAP
November 29th, 2012
1:25 pm
shaun It’s going to get very interesting when Upton has a low batting average and lots of strikeouts but is still very valuable because he’s doing everything else pretty well.
its be fine as long as the braves are winning games. i promise.
phil
November 29th, 2012
1:26 pm
Value = Contributions to World Series ring
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
1:26 pm
but it seems to me that every player has his own unique career arc
Seriously. I mean, wouldn’t it be enough to hope that the young ML starters simply progress along a normal track for mortals, LOL? To get a few more starts and experience before you ask them to front a rotation and start dealing against the Halladays and Cains and Kershaws three out of five starts?
As it is, folks here think Medlen and Minor and even Beachy are full-blown finished products, ready to take their place at the head of the class, become perennial All-Stars, and contend for the Cy in 2013 and beyond. And woe to the unsuspecting who might voice the thought that such is premature.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
1:26 pm
It’s going to get very interesting when Upton has a low batting average and lots of strikeouts
It will look no different than when Uggla does the same.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2012
1:29 pm
Ken-
Good points there, and yeah there are just certain things that still attract me to the product as now I have been religiously watching since about 1993 having picked it up here and there from about 1988-89 when I was 7….
Its usually a select handful of guys that draw you to the program and then after all these years, there are still a select handful of guys that have kept me with it….
At the beginning when I got hooked it was Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon (Scott Hall), Bret Hart, 1-2-3 Kid (Sean Waltman), The Smoking Guns, The Headshrinkers….
Now its guys like CM Punk, Ryback, John Cena, Dolph Ziggler, Kofi Kingston, Cody Rhodes, Randy Orton….
The funny thing is, quite a few of the 2nd and 3rd generation guys that I like….have the same type of draw that their grandfathers and fathers had, only I think theyre BETTER….
That said, my biggest gripes after watching wrestling for so many years and the knowledge base I have from years of WWE and WCW watching is the arm chair QB in me that says wrestling these days lacks continuity and believability in the storyline sense…
For example, it insults my intelligence when in a short month, they forget about two guys despising each other and they end up teaming up after guy A injured guy B just a month back….and its just some things that aren’t even remotely believable or a good story at that…
There are still some guys who can tell a good story in and out of the ring…why I like CM Punk….that said, they need new writing and new direction in the WWE…
Now I may get flogged by some who watch and know the program, BUT I think the first step of that is Vince McMahon retiring and Triple H taking over day to day….
We have already seen a growing passion for longer title reigns, a reigniting of the tag team division, and a refocus on the secondary belts….
I think much will change for the better when Vince decides to step down and it goes back closer to the 90s brand of WRESTLING and less of the ENTERTAINMENT brand that Vince has used the last number of years.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
1:30 pm
But isn’t that just the opposite side of the coin from declaring inexperienced starters The Next Coming?
You mean, like Wil Myers? Totally inexperienced starting position player.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
1:30 pm
It’s going to get very interesting when Upton has a low batting average and lots of strikeouts but is still very valuable because he’s doing everything else pretty well.
Define “everything else”.
Brava
November 29th, 2012
1:33 pm
You mean, like Wil Myers? Totally inexperienced starting position player.
Ha!
Tumbledown
November 29th, 2012
1:33 pm
Value = Contributions to World Series ring
I don’t necessarily agree with this equation. For example, Pendleton surely provided the Braves with tremendous value during his time with the Braves starting in 1991. He became a star with the Braves in 1991 and 1992. However, he was not with the team in 1995 when the team won it all.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
1:37 pm
You mean, like Wil Myers? Totally inexperienced starting position player.
I don’t believe that at any time, at any place, have I mentioned Wil Myers as the next MVP. At no time, at no place, have I declared Wil Myers as the next Roberto Clemente. At no time, at no place, have I touted him in the way that some here have touted Medlen and Minor.
What I have said is that he is at the same place as and has the same potential as Jason Heyward, at the same stage of his minor league career. Now, you may find that equivalent to “the next Maddux”, but I do not.
Shaun
November 29th, 2012
1:37 pm
TennesseePaul, Uggla’s a decent comparison, except Uggla offers probably even less defensive value and definitively less baserunning value. Plus Uggla is older.
Tumbledown, a .336 career OBP from a centerfielder entering his age 28 season is pretty good. Not sure where the .316 came from. Probably some arbitrary end point.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
1:39 pm
Probably some arbitrary end point.
Phrase of the day. I can see it coming.
Tumbledown
November 29th, 2012
1:39 pm
Shaun, the .316 OBP was not my number.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
1:42 pm
.313, .322, .331, .298… that doesn’t equal a .336 OBP. .316 is the average there. The BJ Upton of 2007-8 hasn’t been found.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
1:46 pm
Now, you may find that equivalent to “the next Maddux”, but I do not.
No. For Heyward, at that stage, it was the equivalent of Mel Ott, Albert Pujols, etc. And I would disagree still that Wil Myers is such.
Efrim
November 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
You mean, like Wil Myers? Totally inexperienced starting position player.
That’s unfair. I totally get where the interest was with Myers.
You hate hype like I hate pitchers that don’t sit 92-93mph.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
1:49 pm
Uggla’s a decent comparison, except Uggla offers probably even less defensive value and definitively less baserunning value. Plus Uggla is older.
Well Payne, you can twist that into a “player value comparison” conversation if you like. I was merely responding to your expectant glee over the gnashing of teeth posts concerning a potential Upton low average, high strikeout performance. My point was, that gnashing of teeth, will be no different than the gnashing which occurred with Uggla.
Ward
November 29th, 2012
1:52 pm
Hello everyone! Great day to be a Braves Fan! About Myers. Royals don’t wan’t to trade him. He’s their number number one prospect, and if they decide to trade him? They would trade with Tampa Bay. Royals need pitching, ans would wan’t some Tampa Prospects. It’s very unlikely Royals will not trade Myers, as of now.
Ward
November 29th, 2012
1:53 pm
How’s everyone today? I’m one of B.J. Uptons biggest fans, and very excited to have him on the team. Very…… Very…… happy…..
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
I totally get where the interest was with Myers.
Hey, if the Braves can get Myers, kudos. I just find it unreasonable to believe Myers is worth a major league starting pitcher straight up…. at least one who has had any level of success as Medlen or Minor. If this conversation were about trading JoJo Reyes for Myers, after all of his “experience” gained in the pro’s, I wouldn’t be countering. But, regardless of Medlen’s short stature, he has clearly experienced success at the highest level of the game. And many in the game think he’ll be able to hang around the league and do well. The level of success varies, but I have yet to read he is the pitching equivalent of Charles Thomas.
I still haven’t seen a comparable trade which was at minimum, 1 major league starting player for a prospect with zero experience. Even JoJo wouldn’t qualify as he wasn’t a “starting player.” He was more of a headache sitting on the pine ready to ruin a three game series at the drop of a hat.
Shaun
November 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
TennesseePaul, my point is that I suspect people will be gnashing their teeth essentially about Upton’s overall value because they are focusing too much on a low batting average and lots of strikeouts and ignoring other things that allow baseball players to be productive. You know the types, the folks that pretend they hate “stat-heads” and then focus on only a few relatively insignificant stats (in terms of those stats telling us a player’s overall value as a baseball player).
abeeeewright
November 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
BJ Upton career: .255/.336/.422 600+ PAs for the last several years
Chipper Jones 2012: .287/.377/.455 450 PAs
Michael Bourn 2012: .274/.348/.391 700 PAs
Looks like BJ Upton will be able to replace Chipper’s 2012 power, while making outs only slightly more often than 2012 Michael Bourn.
If the Braves can replace Chipper/Fransisco’s OBP with their LF while at least matching Prado’s defense, they should be at about the same place offensively that they were in 2012.
Prado/Simmons/Uggla/Freeman should be much better defensively than Jones-Francisco-Prado/Pastornicky-Simmons/Uggla/Freeman over the course of the year, even though PTBNL/Upton/Heyward will be a step down defensively from Prado-Hinske-Diaz-Constanza/Bourn/Heyward.
Given all the ground ball pitchers on the Braves, I suspect that improving infield defense will improve their overall run prevention more than the loss of outfield defense harms run prevention.
Overall, unless Braves put Constanza/Schafer in LF, they should be as good or better offensively than they were in 2012, while being better defensively where it matters most.
If they should sign a fair defensive LF who has balanced OBP/power, they will be a better club offensively in 2013 than in 2012.
I also suspect that having folks “in-position” all the time (something that could not be done with Chipper), defense might see a boost as well.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
It’s very unlikely Royals will not trade Myers
So that means that they will trade him then?…
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
And I would disagree still that Wil Myers is such.
Hey, you’re perfectly welcome to hold the opinion. I’d just prefer that you not saddle me with characterizations I haven’t made.
The A Bomb
November 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
At least we will now lead MLB in unproductive muscular-looking guys in the lineup.
$15 million for a .298 OBP.
I guess if Lowe can get it and have one good month, Upton deserves it as well. We just have to hope Uggla and Upton can alternate good months so the team can stay in contention.
This is a joke.
Ward
November 29th, 2012
2:03 pm
Pitching is on what they are looking for. From what I heard from MLBN is they don’t wan’t to trade him, because he has such great potential to be as good as Trout, Harper, Posey.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
2:04 pm
low batting average and lots of strikeouts
Considering the player, combining those two things is going to make it very, very hard for him to do “the other things”. At least, in the context of why he was signed.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
I’d just prefer that you not saddle me with characterizations I haven’t made.
I like to saddle dead horses. Heyward was hyped to the moon. If Wil Myers is in that same position, he is being hyped as well. And I will not stand for the hypage.
He may be a good player, but he is still a minor leaguer with zero experience at the majors and by that very virtue is not worth a starting major league pitcher straight up. And from what I can see throughout this sport, that’s pretty much the way FO’s have always valued such players.
ncgary
November 29th, 2012
2:07 pm
yeah upton wasnt my first choice either , but he is young fast and has that magic word. potential.
all that being said
welcome aboard brave
hope you hit 400 have an obp of 550 hit 75 homers 150 rbi
and make all us naysaying nancys eat lots of crow, pass the legs please.lol
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
2:07 pm
Kincade says that the Braves are likely saying bye-bye to McCann after this season, due to the signing of Upton. Gotta pay Heyward, Freeman, and Kimbrel next winter. I agree with that. Not enough money to go around
Ward
November 29th, 2012
2:07 pm
B.J. Upton Press Conferance pn MLBN starting now……
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
2:08 pm
a .336 career OBP from a centerfielder entering his age 28 season is pretty good
Sorry, but that is not “pretty good”. It is “unexceptional”. And positional scarcity disappears in the batter’s box.
Upton will have to have an OBP much better than “unexceptional” to hit anywhere higher than 7 in this lineup. Not that Fredo might not have him hitting somewhere higher, LOL.
Ward
November 29th, 2012
2:08 pm
Wren, is speaking at the moment.
Murph
November 29th, 2012
2:10 pm
Jair Jurrjens was an MLB starting pitcher last season… I’d trade him for Myers.
Tommy Hanson… yeah, I’d trade him for Myers too. In fact, that seems to be more of a balanced trade than either Minor or Medlen.
Hanson comes with question marks, Myers comes with question marks. Risk for risk. Hanson has proved he can pitch in the majors despite his limitations, so what the heck? Trade him for Myers and maybe one of those young bullpen arms that KC has plenty of.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
2:10 pm
Got that Payne. Perhaps I should have pasted this part: “It’s going to be entertaining, perhaps funny, to watch that firestorm” as I was merely observing that this “firestorm” will be no different than the “firestorm” which followed Uggla.
On another side note, I’ve seen a few firestorms in my days in SoCal. Pretty crazy stuff. It “rains” fire. Funnel clouds, tornadoes, form and they are nothing but spiraling fire. It’s frightening to witness.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2012
2:12 pm
and by that very virtue is not worth a starting major league pitcher straight up.
Be that as it may, I’d still trade the midget.
Shaun
November 29th, 2012
2:12 pm
ncscoots, there are plenty of very productive players that have rather low batting averages and strikeout a lot.
Players are signed to create and prevent runs. That’s the only context that matters.
Speaking of context, I hope the Braves aren’t too focused on looking for leftfielders who are prototypical leadoff hitters. If the best available happens to be a leadoff type, that’s fine. But they should be focused on finding the best available leftfielder and not on batting order. Worry about the batting order later and let that take care of itself.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2012
2:13 pm
Upton will have to have an OBP much better than “unexceptional” to hit anywhere higher than 7 in this lineup.
It’s going to be tight cramming all these guys into two spots at the bottom of the order.
Murph
November 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
Be that as it may, I’d still trade the midget.
Offensive. Dwarf or little person, please.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
scoots: Great response to Shaun…
Fredi says we may not need a LF with BJ and Heyward in the outfield.
Ward
November 29th, 2012
2:17 pm
After thinking about it. It could be possible during mid season for Myers trade? That’s if Royals are depserate, and real bad nead for pitching?
ncbravesfan90
November 29th, 2012
2:17 pm
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