9:50 pm November 25, 2012, by David O'Brien
November 29th, 201211:04 am
DAP, I believe Marlins signed Pierre if nobody else responded to you. 1.6mil
The problem with giving Janish a roster spot is that he cant do anything as a backup. He’s not as good defensively as Simmons and he hits like a pitcher. He’s a good guy to have stashed at AAA if there is an injury.
5 years at $15 million per for a guy who had a .752 OPS last year and hasn’t hit above .250 since 2008. But he looks like a player, has a lot of tools! Absolutely incredible. Apparently not satisfied with the Lowe and Uggla debacles, Wren is going for the trifecta.
November 29th, 201211:05 am
Wren should absolutely jump on a Justin Upton trade if it costs one of Teheran/Delgado + Ahmed.
Sign the papers quickly, so you can get it done before Towers is fired for making the trade, LOL.
I would do some deal for Justin even if it included one of Teheran/Delgado, Ahmed and Gilmartin.
November 29th, 201211:06 am
To get the younger Upton, the Braves would have to include either Teheran or Delgado and likely Nick Ahmed, a sure-handed shortstop who garnered some attention during the Arizona Fall League.
I’m sorry, but 15 other teams in the league should be able to beat that. I get it – it’s not always relevaent because some teams won’t pay that. But let’s be serious for a minute, it’s Justin Upton – 25 years old – .830 OPS, 117 OPS+.
.281/.361/.482, 120 OPS+ hitter in five years, ages 20-25 year old seasons.
For Julio Teheran or Randall Delgado and Nick Ahmed? Plus, what? Minor? Come on…..
November 29th, 201211:08 am
That package would get you two years of Denard Span, not three years of 25 year old Justin Upton.
November 29th, 201211:09 am
I don’t remember anyone here labeling the Rangers’ offense as “inconsistent”.
I don’t remember anyone here watching the Rangers consistently. If so, my first question would be, “why are you on a Braves blog?” Typically only fad extremes of other teams bubble up on the blog… “LaHair is awesome.” … “Ozzie Guillen is the devil.” … etc. Rarely ever see “I’ve been watching this other team religiously and I really want everyone here on this Braves blog to do a thorough analysis of said team.“
How about if the trade for Justin hurts us a little bit? Minor and Teheran/Delgado and Ahmed. Hurt a little too much?
If not, between Uggla and Upton, double-trouble.
You and those strikeouts, man, LOL.
November 29th, 201211:13 am
Gilmartin is organizational filler…. as are most every prospect in the Braves minors. At some point, maybe another GM can be wowed by a truck load of low ceiling players, but that’s only if you are good at elbowing out all the other GMs who have valuable players to offer.
Rarely ever see “I’ve been watching this other team religiously and I really want everyone here on this Braves blog to do a thorough analysis of said team
More than the occasional poster held up the Rangers as the paragon of offensive excellence and bewailed the Braves’ inability to be such. That’s why I did the original research, to start with. The idea didn’t just come to me in a fevered dream, fercrissake.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
November 29th, 201211:14 am
Bourn is one year and eight months older than B.J.Upton. His best years are probably behind him due to his legs being his game. Bourn is also left handed and Upton hits from the right side. Upton still has some productive years ahead of himself due to his power bat. So I think we are getting the better bang for our buck in the long run.
November 29th, 201211:16 am
CB I believe Marlins signed Pierre if nobody else responded to you.
thanks, CB, i missed that.
How about if the trade for Justin hurts us a little bit? Minor and Teheran/Delgado and Ahmed. Hurt a little too much? -CB
Unfortunately, it does. Remember we would have to move Hanson in order to be able to afford Upton in the first place. Then we would have to trade Minor and also Delgado or Teheran. We dont have the pitching depth to move 3 potential starters for next year. We dont have the money to land another starter either.
November 29th, 201211:19 am
I wonder what Gordon would cost in a trade? Likely too much to make it worthwhile, but this lineup would look pretty nice:
November 29th, 201211:20 am
Coach nailed it at 11:14.
November 29th, 201211:23 am
More than the occasional poster held up the Rangers as the paragon of offensive excellence and bewailed the Braves’ inability to be such
Exactly. It was a result of fad du jour. Hamilton mashes 40+… The Rangers are in the press all the time, Braves were not. No one really watched them. Just saw headlines with them in it.
I wonder what Gordon would cost in a trade?
The blog won’t let you trade pitching to KC. At least, not pitching that they’d actually want.
November 29th, 201211:24 am
Even for both Teheran and Delgado I do the deal…
November 29th, 201211:26 am
Teheran or Delgado to either Cleveland or Detroit for their SS, then flip that SS, the other pitcher, Juan, and maybe Hanson for Upton.
November 29th, 201211:27 am
BTW,I wasn’t suggesting that trade, just a conversation starter.
November 29th, 201211:28 am
10paul I don’t remember anyone here watching the Rangers consistently.
alot of us are baseball fans, not just braves fans.
scoots, the rangers had what most people considered the scariest offense in the majors until july when they took a nose dive and only won 9 games. they had some serious offensive issues that month. you could even say, they were “inconsistent”.
Both the Rangers and Tigers ran up against some great pitching and defense in the playoffs. So lets not lose sight of the goal in the end, which is winning the big tamale the right way…..
November 29th, 201211:30 am
Minor, Gattis, plus some prospects (Mejia, Ahmed, Gilmartin, whoever) for Gordon would work for both teams, so long as the prospects aren’t Teheran or Delgado.
Minor for Myers works too.
I don’t get the unwillingness of some to part with Minor. His trade value has never been higher after he put together his one decent half a season of pitching… strike while the iron is hot before he turns into JJ or Hanson 2.0.
Remember we would have to move Hanson in order to be able to afford Upton in the first place
Not necessarily. We’re at 87mil right now, and Frank did say payroll would be between 95 and 100. Justin makes 9.75 next year.
November 29th, 201211:31 am
I’m a anti-strikeout kinda guy – excessive strikeouts, that is.
Where’s CrazyTrades when we need him?
November 29th, 201211:33 am
And that doesn’t mean anyone came on here saying they were watching the Ranger consistently.
I watched the Braves consistently. I followed highlights and results of all the other teams, but I didn’t put in the same amount of time following a non-Braves team as I did/do following the Braves. It’s why I call the Braves my favorite team. Or perhaps, because the Braves are my favorite team, I follow them more closely than I do other teams.
November 29th, 201211:34 am
Now we are all hot for the little bit better brother?
November 29th, 201211:36 am
November 29th, 2012
I don’t get the unwillingness of some to part with Minor. His trade value has never been higher after he put together his one decent half a season of pitching… strike while the iron is hot before he turns into JJ or Hanson 2.0….”
Sorry MURPH, just shaking my head ‘no’ as I read, and check of your points one by one.
November 29th, 201211:37 am
I’m not in favor of trading a ML starter to fill any other hole on the team. That kind of trade is overkill, now that Upton has signed.
November 29th, 201211:39 am
I would send Medlen or Minor and Uggla to the Royals for Myers and Francouer. Then install Ahmed at 2b and try him in the leadoff spot. Francouer is your backup with Schafer.
I consider a trade for RH lead-off LF’er much less do-able than signing FA B.J. UPTON
Now the real work by FRANK WREN begins.
November 29th, 201211:40 am
DOB – saw your tweets that no way BJ plays LF – do you base that on fact that they paid him big money as CF, which they would not pay to a LF with similar offensive numbers? Just wondering because it sounds like Span would be the better CF were they to get him in a trade.
November 29th, 201211:41 am
I’m not in favor of trading a ML starter to fill any other hole on the team.
Not even Meds for Myers? ( :
November 29th, 201211:43 am
Not even Meds for Myers?
Probably not, now. Oh, I guess I wouldn’t turn it down , but it’s not the deal I’d go looking for.
So… yesterday you weren’t opposed to trading Medlen for Myers, but now that we have Upton, you are? Por que? (That’s spanish for “why?”)
The team can still be improved, they still have a wealth of pitching, and they still have a giant hole in LF that has gone unfilled for years.
Myers is a perfect fit in that he’s young and cheap. He allows the Braves to retain some financial flexibility going into the season while still providing the power RH bat that further deepens an already deep lineup.
Medlen or Minor can be traded and Delgado can take the open spot… or maybe even Teheran, who finally threw some decent pitches yesterday.
I’m going to go all TOBF on this one. Myers is to Murph as Bourjos was to TOBF.
November 29th, 201211:44 am
Tennessee you have 8 or more starters on this roster. They can’t all play. If you don’t use them to get what you need then you eventually have nothing.
November 29th, 201211:45 am
When is the deadline for non-tendering players?
November 29th, 201211:48 am
8 or more starters on this roster
I just wouldn’t trade multiples of them for a prospect with zero MLB experience.
I’d also look to deal from Jurrjens, Hanson, Delgado or Teheran before I’d dip into the rest.
November 29th, 201211:49 am
Friday… Adios JJ, have fun pitching with Scott Proctor in North Korea.
November 29th, 201211:50 am
Where’s CrazyTrades when we need him? –CB
I retired Crazytrademan a few years ago, seems he’s not needed after reading some of the suggested trades this morning.
November 29th, 201211:52 am
We still have a hole on the roster… LF. It’s gone unfilled for years. And it’d be nice to add a young RH masher to that spot. We still need a thumper, and Myers’ (and Justin Upton’s) youth are big benefits. The fact that Myers would be controllable for 6 years and extremely cheap is definitely an advantage for him. Myers first, Justin Upton 2nd.
Crazy,true that,including mine. lol
November 29th, 201211:54 am
take Hanson with ya JJ… oh wait, I guess he does still have some value. Do the right thing though Wren, and trade him this winter while you can. I warned you on Jair…
Tennessee, I would offer those first as well but no one is going to give you their best prospect for someone you WANT to get rid of. Also I am advocating trading ONE starter for Myers, and the fact that it would be a fairly good one would be my leverage to get them to take Uggla. They have a need at 2b. You take back Francouer so KC doesn’t balk at the salary exchanges and as backup in case Myers does struggle somewhat.
Quite an over-payment for Myers, a highly touted minor league prospect who’s unproven at the major league level.
Would the Braves really want Francoeur back? And the light-hitting (to be charitable) Schafer on the bench? The Braves give up Uggla for a prospect – not likely. Ahmed to second – I like, but the kid needs playing time there in the minors, and more seasoning, anyway.
November 29th, 201211:56 am
I posted that line up like a month ago when we did offseason predictions of the 2 OF’s we thought Wren would get. Most bloggers liked it and I believe would be a strong team. I’m halfway there now if only Wren would go get Gordon. Make it happen Frankie.
Totally agree with your previous post about wrestling and the direction is has gone. I guess ratings are down from what I hear? Made good points about remembering how it was during attitude era and how good it was and how much we miss it…heck even my wife enjoyed watching it back then as it kept her interest…not so much these days. I like it and watch it with the kids but its not the same. I think a big part as well is the actual wrestlers these days. Not as many interesting as before. Punk is my favorite and Sheamus is pretty funny as well as the storyline with Kane and Daniel Bryan. Still no comparison to our attitude era, not even close.
November 29th, 201211:57 am
So… yesterday you weren’t opposed to trading Medlen for Myers, but now that we have Upton, you are?
I’m still not “opposed” to it, just less fervently in favor.
Yesterday the team lacked RH sock; today, that’s less an issue. Yesterday, I would have been more inclined to accept less run prevention in 2013 for the acquisition of some controllable RH power. Today, that need is less of an issue and the pitching loss is less likely to be overcome by the added OF offense. A second RH bat with thump is more likely to be just an incremental offensive improvement in the near term, and that might not offset the near-term pitching loss.
And for anyone wanting to discuss trades please stop even suggesting Hanson or JJ. No one wants them for the same reasons you don’t. Not happening.
November 29th, 201211:59 am
Err, Jurrjens will be non-tendered by the Braves. Hanson may go in a deal, but I’d bet he’d be part of a package, if so – and not the prime piece.
Bowman seems to think the LF acquisition will be for a leadoff hitter. I guess that makes sense. Not sure if the Braves would be willing to give Victorino, three years, $30 million. Probably not unless they trade Hanson for prospects.
November 29th, 201212:01 pm
2 p.m. Upton presser also to be carried by MLB Network
Jeff in a year the Braves will give up Uggla AND have to pay his salary ala Lowe trade. If you guys remember Freddi basically took away his starting job for a while last year. You better trade him now while you can get someone to take him AND pay him.
November 29th, 201212:03 pm
Anyone know where in Tampa Bays lineup BJ typically hit? I did a quick sampling and it was anywhere from leadoff to 3 hole, but I could not find anything that broke his at bats down by where he hit in lineup. Just curious.
November 29th, 201212:05 pm
I would love to see Shane Victorino in a Braves uni. His intangibles are off the charts, But I’m doubtful the if flyin’ Hawaiian would accept the pay cut and probable part time duty.
November 29th, 201212:06 pm
would offer those first as well but no one is going to give you their best prospect for someone you WANT to get rid of.
I never said I “want” to get rid of the players. There is merely a list of availability. And while Myres did well in the minors, his most probable out come in the majors is not a star. It’s very rare players become such which is why I wouldn’t trade a starting pitcher for one minor leaguer.
Take this #19 ranked guy below. Never would have traded a major league starter for him:
AA.... .291 .394 .464 .858
AAA... .322 .400 .550 .950
AA/AAA .300 .396 .490 .886
November 29th, 201212:07 pm
Also by moving Medlen or Minor and Uggla and only taking back Myers and Francouer I believe you net about $5 million, plus you don’t spend the other $10 million left this year, plus the $13 million from McCann’s expiring contract next year. You are going to need that money to sign Heyward, Freeman, Medlen/Minor, Prado, etc. over the next few years.
November 29th, 201212:08 pm
Bowman seems to think the LF acquisition will be for a leadoff hitter.
I fear Wren’s targets for this. All legs, no stick… and in LF to boot. Could just dump Pastornicky out there and call him “premium”.
According to CBS Sports’ Jon Heyman, Kansas City “isn’t looking to trade” outfield prospect Wil Myers.
I wouldn’t if I were Dayton either. They have other prospects to trade for a starter.
November 29th, 201212:10 pm
B.J. Upton’s career splits………
trade Hanson for prospects.
Sounds like a great idea to me. I’ll take a AA or A prospect from the Twins, Angels, Royals, Astros… don’t need to be great upside, but a guy who projects to a middle reliever or bench player would be nice.
I wonder if Wren isn’t willing to trade either Teheran or Delgado for Span and is peddling Gilmartin or Spruill.
November 29th, 201212:11 pm
I hate to break it to you but Medlen/Minor are not stars either. They are good, for a half a season each, so far. If Beachy wasn’t hurt they would be #3, and #4 behind Hudson. And the difference is losing ONE of them is replaceable internally. LF , at least for now, is not.
I’m having second thought about Justin Upton.
First, his home/away splits and ballpark correction.
Second, if the two brothers get along, and then one of them gets benched how will the other feel about that? Or one gets sent down for rehab when they don’t want to? It creates too much chance for the other to get disgruntled. The other possibility is that they don’t get along–not all siblings do–and then you have a whole host of other problems.
Is there too much risk there?
November 29th, 201212:12 pm
You are going to need that money to sign Heyward, Freeman, Medlen/Minor, Prado, etc. over the next few years.
This is still a false premise, no matter how many times it is repeated it will simply not be true.
The Braves do not need to trade away Uggla to make room for contract extensions for any of their young players. Uggla’s contract will be off the books by the time any of those players reach a level of compensation that would require the “room.” If the Braves sign Heyward to an extension this winter, he will not be making $13M this coming year, or the next year, and I highly doubt it for the year after. That would be a terrible extensions on Wren’s part. He could just as easily not signed the extension and saved money.
I think a big part as well is the actual wrestlers these days. Not as many interesting as before. Punk is my favorite and Sheamus is pretty funny as well as the storyline with Kane and Daniel Bryan. Still no comparison to our attitude era, not even close.
I trump your attitude era with the golden days of WWF with Hulkamania, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Andre the Giant, Jake the Snake, Mr. Perfect, and my personal favorite The Ultimate Warrior. The era of Stone Cold and the Rock were pretty good, but nothing will EVER compare to those early golden years of the WWF. Come on, the Hulk vs. Andrew the Giant in front of 120k strong at the Pontiac Silverdome? You can’t beat that.
November 29th, 201212:13 pm
Upton’s batted mainly 1,2,3 and 6. Batted mainly 2nd last year. He had about 10 games at cleanup, he’s around 85 for his career. I wouldn’t be in favor of him batting there for us. 2 or 6. (7)
i guess wren could go for a leadoff hitter, but i get a feeling he would like to see simmons handle that. i wouldnt be surprised at all if we see evan gattis “win” the LF job in spring training, with juan fransisco on the bench. prado will still move between LF and #B some, and the rest of the FA $$$ we have will be spent on bullpen/bench guys. (reed johnson, chad durbin, ect.)
November 29th, 201212:15 pm
According to almost every other site KC is willing to trade Myers. Take a look at that roster and tell me who else they have that would get s starter?
November 29th, 201212:16 pm
Low level guys with upside. Jorge Bonifacio from the Royals. Max Kepler from the Twins. Guys like that. They probably wouldn’t be willing to do that, but that’d be my target.
Clear the $4 million, sign Victorino to a two year, $19 million dollar deal with an option/buyout for 2015. Delgado and Teheran battle it out for the #5 spot in spring training.
Thanks Coach – looks like mostly 2nd and 3rd last year, but had at least one game in 1-8 spots. That doesn’t sound good, kind of like what Fredi did with Uggla.
According to almost every other site KC is willing to trade Myers. Take a look at that roster and tell me who else they have that would get a starter?
Alex Gordon, Billy Butler, Mike Moustakas, Eric Hosmer, Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar
November 29th, 201212:17 pm
Upton passed his physical. Deal is now official.
jimmy: I kinda agree with you, but Medlen does seem to have the potential to be a #2… Minor’s still a 3-4. And I’d put those Meds as 2, Minor 4 if Beachy was healthy. Huddy’s a 3.
Probably not even willing to give those… he’s trying to pawn off Northcraft and Moore/Cabrera I bet!
According to CBS Sports’ Jon Heyman, Kansas City “isn’t looking to trade” outfield prospect Wil Myers.
Sheeesh what pointless reporting. Did Heyman actual ask this question: “Mr. Moore is it true you are looking to trade Wil Myers?” Of course the answer is “No.” Just as it was last off-season if/when Wren was asked: “Mr. Wren is it true you are looking to trade Martin Prado?”.
Heyman puts the “looking to trade” in quotes so he can get a highly reported tweet, when nothing changes the rumor that Wil Myers might be an option for the right deal.
November 29th, 201212:19 pm
They need to trade Uggla because he sucks AND because he makes 13 million. What part of he lost his job for a time do you not get? You think he will be better this year? Really? And you still don’t have a LF.
I’d rather go with Gattis in LF than any of the less-than-premium options that are out there.
Save the money to pay for Curtis Granderson’s 2nd half salary after the Yankees find themselves 20 games out at the deadline and dump all players close to free agency.
Jon Morosi @jonmorosi
Keep an eye on Jair Jurrjens and Mark Reynolds on trade market in next day. In line for large arb numbers and tender deadline looming.
Anything! Not as much as we’d have gotten last winter, but it’s something
November 29th, 201212:20 pm
I would take Hanson into spring training before attempting to trade him. I don’t think his value can get any lower than it is now, and there needs to be limited options on the market for any team to provide value in return. Nothing like a good spring training injury for another team to create some demand for Tommy.
You never know, he could come out throwing 94 mph again. Probably not, but it could happen.
Moore is in a tough spot. He is openly seeking an “Ace” in a trade. Real quick, how many teams have a spare Ace? Just some elite #1 starting pitcher laying around they are hoping they can move for a guy who’s never sniffed the majors. Straight up exchange.
November 29th, 201212:21 pm
Geeze, Efrim, how do you know those names? Sounds as if you’ve been wishing for those guys awhile… But I do like your idea
November 29th, 201212:22 pm
mark reynolds….hm. the braves would have alot of K’s in the lineup, but talk about a power hitting team.
Lemke maybe Butler has value, but then who plays 1st? Gordon won’t get a starter above 5. Myers i their chip.
November 29th, 201212:23 pm
and last winter, no one believed that Prado or Heyward would come back to their norms – yet they did.
Lots of griping about Mac and Uggla coming back now. Yet compared to other NL [plaers at their respective positions, Mac ranked (out of 16 teams) 4th in HR, 4th in BB, 6th in runs scored, 5th in RBI and onlky one catcher in the league had less strikeouts and Uggla ranked 6th in 2B, 2nd in HR, 2nd in RBI, 1st in BB, 2nd in OBP and 4th in WAR (for all of you who think it’s indispensible).
Now that was on by far their worst years and yet they were in the top third of all players in their league at their positions.
Now I was hardly in favor of Upton as the first choice to fill the CF opening, but with any return to normalcy by Uggs and Mac (and I’m betting on a resurgence from both), a bit of continued development from Heyward, Freeman and Simmons and a normal year from Martin, I’m thinking that adding Upton makes ours a pretty devastating offense.
Yes, they are free swingers and will strike out a good bit and yes, some of them are streaky. But that’s five players in the middle of our lineup that are capable of hitting 25 HR apiece with Martin chipping in with another 10-15. I’m seriously doubting there will be many (if any) times when all five are stone cold at the same time – there should always be a few of them hitting well – and if they all get hot at the same time, they will compare with any offense in baseball.
November 29th, 201212:24 pm
And yes Meds has potential to be really good. So does Myers. We have pitchers. We don’t have outfielders.
Morosi’s just silly. No team will trade for Jurrjens and arbitration figure.
November 29th, 201212:25 pm
You know how teams sometimes sign people in a charitable way, like a celebrity or a kid with a strange disease, just so they can say they were signed by an MLB team, even if just for a day?
Can’t we get one of those for JJ?
How about JJ for Reynolds? Do the Orioles need a starter?
November 29th, 201212:27 pm
I’d be happier if they shot Schafer during the press conference.
Made me laugh, 10Paul.
Puma, as you could see – Upton’s best production was in the two hole. So I could see Fredi’s line up looking something like this:
1. Lead off hitter, probably lefty or switch hitter.
2. B.J. Upton RHB
3. Jason Heyward LHB
4. Dan Uggla RHB
5. Freddie Freeman LHB
6. Martin Prado RHB, but he will see action hitting two and three.
7. McCann LHB
So just this one example alone is a pitchers nightmare. Right, left, right, left, right, left and so on.
Prado and Heyward were young and cheap. If they didn’t come back you didn’t have to eat the money and you could wait longer. If Uggla and Mac are much older and expensive . If they doen’t come back then you’re screwed.
November 29th, 201212:28 pm
Reynolds earned $7.5mil last season… no thanks.
From Braves press release on Upton signing: “We are thrilled to add B.J. Upton to our club,” GM Frank Wren said. “B.J. is an outstanding defensive player who also adds the power dimension to our offense from the center field position. We have been working to increase the speed and athleticism across our team and B.J. gives us another young, dynamic player.”
November 29th, 201212:29 pm
Geeze, Efrim, how do you know those names? Sounds as if you’ve been wishing for those guys awhile… But I do like your idea
Nope. Just know them because I follow the minors and they are young, have upside and are a long ways from the majors. Plus, position player prospects which the system desperately needs.
They need to trade Uggla because he sucks AND because he makes 13 million. What part of he lost his job for a time do you not get? You think he will be better this year? Really?
There is no logical thought process in this argument. For Uggla’s next year expectations I point you towards scoots.
For the illogic of this statement I point towards towards your sentiment: a) “he sucks” b) he “makes 13 million” coupled with c) “You think he will be better this year? Really?”
If he really does “suck” and has absolutely no chance of being “better” in coming years, then you aren’t moving him. Not with out covering his salary, and that only means you’ve upped your expenses at 2B. What was 13 million a year has become 13 million plus the cost of the replacement.
November 29th, 201212:31 pm
Meds has potential to be really good
No, he’s already really good, with the potential to be great. You do understand what Freddie Freeman meant when he said Medlen has a “bugs bunny” changeup? His stuff is filthy. It translates to long-term success. We already know he has the brains for it.
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