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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,190 comments Add your comment
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
2:08 pm
I don’t know anyone here has offered that idea, have they?
I think along the way there may have been some allusions to such deals. Nevertheless, could you list a single minor league prospect, no MLB experience being traded for one MLB starter (pitcher or position)?
Tumbledown
November 28th, 2012
2:10 pm
What else is there to discuss that has not already been discussed ad nauseum about possible Braves’ pickups? Pipedream discussions about Stanton have been quashed. Most trade proposals are not based in reality. Coco Crisp sounds like a better cereal discussion than outfield option. Maybe something will happen sooner than later.
Shaun
November 28th, 2012
2:19 pm
I read mixed things about Cunningham’s defense, but nearly everyone says he could at least be a serviceable centerfielder. It’s just a matter of whether he’s a good centerfielder or a serviceable one, based on what I’ve read.
DOB, Murphy and Jim Rice are nearly identical cases.
Also imagine if Tim Raines had played on those late ’80’s-early ’90’s Oakland teams or other good offensive clubs. He would receive more support if the voters had the view of him as a catalyst for good offensive clubs.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
2:21 pm
Nevertheless, could you list a single minor league prospect, no MLB experience being traded for one MLB starter (pitcher or position)?
Sure. Marte for Renteria is just the most recent that comes to mind.
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
2:25 pm
Marte for Renteria
Recalled that right as I hit submit. I had these images of me posting all kinds of data on the matter. Must have been a dream or something. No way I wasted that much time on Marte/Renteria.
Puma
November 28th, 2012
2:27 pm
In reference to Murphy, not sure he is HOF’er either, but probably not, just did not sustain the high level of success for a long enough time. But definitely one of my all time favorite players and I would vote for him.
On another note, I really enjoy listening to the games he works as an announcer, doesn’t beat you over the head with his baseball knowledge or with the fact that he used to play, but also throws in a good number of humorous stories from the past. Hope he does more games next year. I am also glad Braves have made more effort the last few years to bring him back into the fold.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
Recalled that right as I hit submit
Regardless, I think your point is made: such a trade is not the norm. Teams don’t usually offer up monster prospects, and, on those rare occasions when they do, trading partners are shy about meeting the price for them.
Bay Area Steve
November 28th, 2012
2:30 pm
Marte played some with us. Doesn’t qualify.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
2:31 pm
66 PAs, man. That bounces him, LOL?
ssyb
November 28th, 2012
2:32 pm
Are there many 2 time mvps not in the hall of fame?
Bay Area Steve
November 28th, 2012
2:33 pm
Man said no experience…
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
2:35 pm
Murphy and Jim Rice are nearly identical cases.
I think there is a lot to be said about a player’s longevity in the sport. How they finish their careers etc. Jim Rice was productive right up to the end almost. Murphy was done at 32 and hung around too long. But then, his case wouldn’t have been that much stronger had he hung ‘em up after 10 years, it just wouldn’t be accompanied with a bad after taste.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
2:35 pm
Man said no experience…
Well….fine, then.
I’m still not going to look up trades trying to find one that meets every little itsy-bitsy qualification.
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
2:38 pm
Marte played some with us. Doesn’t qualify.
Excellent counter point. Marte wasn’t a prospect with no MLB experience. He’d played 24 games with the Braves before he was traded.
66 PAs, man. That bounces him
Myers has 0 PA’s. So it would bounce Marte out as a comparable example.
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
2:39 pm
I’m still not going to look up trades trying to find one that meets every little itsy-bitsy qualification.
You don’t have to. Just take it on good faith that there has been no such trade.
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
2:40 pm
Are there many 2 time mvps not in the hall of fame?
It’ll be interesting to see how Bonds is handled over the years. If he is denied, Murphy can rest knowing that even 7 MVPs wouldn’t have been enough.
ssyb
November 28th, 2012
2:44 pm
bonds had 7 my mind, body and soul dismissed him.
CB
November 28th, 2012
2:49 pm
Thanks,Soph!
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
2:50 pm
Maybe the question should be framed differently. If a team called the Braves to inquire about Medlen, you’d want their top prospect to even stay on the phone, right? Minimum, depending on how good that top prospect was?
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
2:58 pm
If a team called the Braves to inquire about Medlen, you’d want their top prospect to even stay on the phone, right?
I don’t know. I think then that would depend on the Braves needs. And in this case it is for a MLB thumper, which a top prospect is not. Perhaps some variation of a deal could be reached which nets a top prospect “plus”, in exchange for a young controllable starting pitcher “plus.” But I’d imagine even then such a deal, in light of the Braves MLB needs, would be predicated on the goal of filling those MLB needs and thus if not fully met in the deal, would require a third team.
This isn’t because it is Medlen as much as it is that a trade of a starting pitcher for a prospect is not a route a contender takes in the off-season. Perhaps if this team were “rebuilding” but even then I have a hunch other players would be involved in the trade. The resulting deal would negate the premise of the initial question rendering this entire exercise moot.
Puma
November 28th, 2012
3:02 pm
Bonds will be interesting, sad thing for him is that he probably would have gotten in even with his pre-juiced body of work. Also, although I know that you know that he knows that we all know he was on ‘roids, its not exactly a fact on the record somewhere. So although we all know, can a voter just say, I am not voting for him because I know he cheated even though its not a fact, either established by his admission or some procedural finding of fact.
I would vote Pete Rose in before Bonds though. And besides Bonds, you also got Clemins, and Sosa…very interesting.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
3:04 pm
The resulting deal would negate the premise of the initial question rendering this entire exercise moot.
Well, in that case, I’m gonna go with moot, all to hell and gone. Me, I’d trade the little guy for Myers in a frickin’ heartbeat.
Bay Area Steve
November 28th, 2012
3:06 pm
“rendering this entire exercise moot”
Well. F’.
abeeeewright
November 28th, 2012
3:06 pm
I realize that more revenue is better, but I have a hard time believing that payrolls are suddenly going to sky-rocket due to these monster TV deals. I would think that owners are likely going to want to pocket the profits, rather than spend them on players that make them marginally more competitive.
In the long run, I would think payrolls would increase closer to the rate of inflation.
I realize that Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc have engaged in an arms race. But, at what point do executives start looking at the marginal rate of return of spending the next buck.
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
3:08 pm
I would vote Pete Rose in before Bonds though. And besides Bonds, you also got Clemins, and Sosa…very interesting.
I wouldn’t. I read so many who disagree but I like the fact that he is not in the Hall. He broke the unpardonable rule. He knew it. He did it anyway. I am not a fan of consequence free society as it is a purely mythical delusion that does more harm than good.
As for Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, etc. The way voters treat them will flesh out the consequences of their actions. I hope none of them get in. I’m fairly certain chemical creators will stay ahead of chemical testers. Having this possibility of postmortem punishment is good for the game.
abeeeewright
November 28th, 2012
3:08 pm
“The Bonds Question” … how long did he play after testing started to de-roid the superstars?
It would have been interesting if Bonds had played a couple of years off the juice to see how that might affect the HoF question.
Had he put up two seasons of 2012 Dan Uggla numbers, …
Arkansas Transplant
November 28th, 2012
3:08 pm
I’d trade Medlen in a deal for Myers but I’m not sure I could do it straight up, something else would have to come my direction, if only it was a RH setup man for the pen but I’d definitely need something else in return and I’m sure there would be in that scenerio.
abeeeewright
November 28th, 2012
3:10 pm
“Having this possibility of postmortem punishment is good for the game.”
Change the HoF rules to include “…pending a clean autopsy.” Remove chemical cheaters from the HoF after their death?
Bay Area Steve
November 28th, 2012
3:10 pm
How much less does KC require for Myers if it includes Francoeur’s salary in the deal? Any? At all significant?
Arkansas Transplant
November 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
Although, I think I would rather acquire Olt and additions for Medlen instead if it was the case of Olt versus Myers.. only because we’d have more workable options in the field.
CB
November 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
ab, players are not stupid. Owners try to pocket that tv money there will be a strike at next labor contract.
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
It would have been interesting if Bonds had played a couple of years off the juice to see how that might affect the HoF question.
It would have just as easily been written off as age related decline. For him to have juiced, and then not juiced, would have required him to juice in his age prime and testing be implemented after. As it is, he dominated, then juiced and dominated in his late 30’s. From age 36 to age 39 the man hit .349/.559/.809/1.368 with 209 HR. That is insane even in ones juice free prime years. It is absurd in the twilight years of ones career.
Murph
November 28th, 2012
3:14 pm
Times are different now than they were 5, 10, 15 years ago. Teams handle their prospects and young players differently… guys come up, put together a couple of good seasons, and are signed to longer-term deals rather than going through the arbitration process for years and years.
Look at the free agents available. Not a whole lot of good players out there. Not going to be a whole lot of good players available next year… or the year after… or the year after.
Maybe trading a starting pitcher for a top prospect is something that wasn’t done before, but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be done now, or in the future. As teams have holes open up and there are less and less decent FA’s available to fill those holes, teams are going to start turning to different ways of building their team.
The Braves have stockpiled a particular kind of player for a reason. Play some, trade some, and put together a winner as best you can given the challenges.
The minor league system needs to be balanced so that a starter can be traded and replaced with a high level prospect, and then a mid level prospect moves up to take that player’s place, and so on… the Braves have that balance. They could trade Medlen and immediately plug in Delgado. They could trade Teheran and bump Gilmartin up to the next in line. They could trade Gilmartin and look to Graham or Spruill, etc etc etc.
Can’t keep ‘em all, not with only one starting OF on the roster and nobody worth signing.
TennesseePaul
November 28th, 2012
3:17 pm
Bonds had 1019 more walks than strikeouts.
ssyb
November 28th, 2012
3:18 pm
owners have to think that you can win with a $150MM pay roll. it seems like a spectacular investment at that price.
Puma
November 28th, 2012
3:19 pm
TennPaul – just for the record, I am with you, I wouldn’t vote any of them. Just saying if gun to my head, I would vote Rose in before Bonds, at least Rose’s numbers are not tainted.
As for Bonds – those numbers after 36 are insane, and had he not juiced, one of the greatest players of all time would still be the only HR leader, and not just the true home run king. And there is no way he plays anywhere near those numbers if he were clean, its just not physiologically possible to get better with age, at least in baseball.
ssyb
November 28th, 2012
3:21 pm
thats a 50% return just on tv deal
tony austin
November 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
Maybe the Royals will go all in and trade Myers to the Braves for a SP and then sign Upton.
That sounds like a pretty good scenario to me
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
3:27 pm
Somebody get Upton on the dang phone, fercrissake. One way or the other, brother, let us have a word.
Arkansas Transplant
November 28th, 2012
3:27 pm
I’d like to see us snag Myers and Olt.. set us up for quite a while.
Ward
November 28th, 2012
3:29 pm
Hello everyone! Check out this article on Jaun Jaime. He’s a hard throwing pitcher Braves added to the 40 man roster, and could set up Kimbrel? The Article is from SI. A good story on him, and he has good stuff!
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
Murph is telling truth!
Ward
November 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
Guys, Royals will not trade Myers period………Who woud be dumb enough to trade a top prospect? Hmmmmmmmmm
Lew
November 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
Murph didn’t sustain his great numbers for a long enough time? You mean coming in second to Mike Schmidt for HR hit during the decade of the 80’s (second by 5HR), wasn’t a sustained performance?
Not saying he’ll be a HOFer, but I;’d say that ten years is a pretty decent amount of time. Lots of great players and several HOFers didn’t it as many HR in that time span.
Bay Area Steve
November 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
“Somebody get Upton on the dang phone”
Challenge! (Still not doing it right, am I?) Dude might say yes. I say we let somebody else call him…
Gone Viral
November 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
“If a team called the Braves to inquire about Medlen, you’d want their top prospect to even stay on the phone, right?”
They better lead with three of their top five including their best and that guy needs to be a top 10 overall player at a position where we have a need.
Ward
November 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
Medlen went 15, and 2. Braves will not trade Medlen……Good one!!!!!
Murph
November 28th, 2012
3:34 pm
Guys, Royals will not trade Myers period………
Period period period period period period period period period period period
cricket
November 28th, 2012
3:35 pm
link it ward
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 28th, 2012
3:35 pm
Royals already have tons of offense… trading Myers doesn’t hurt them. We have lots of pitching. Trade Medlen, we still got arms left.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 28th, 2012
3:38 pm
Yeah, the Braves likely won’t trade Medlen. Or Minor, Gilmartin, Spruill, Teheran, Delgado, Hanson, etc. Frank is tight-fisted w/ his prospects, sometimes overly so!
Bay Area Steve
November 28th, 2012
3:38 pm
“other, brother”
Daryl? American League?
Murph
November 28th, 2012
3:38 pm
Medlen went 15, and 2. Braves will not trade Medlen……Good one!!!!!
Huh? Question mark
He went 10, comma and 1. Period
Check your facts Ward! Exclamation mark
Bay Area Steve
November 28th, 2012
3:43 pm
“Huh? Question mark”
Good grief, man. You don’t go with the symbol and then spell it out. You just name the thing: “Huh question mark”
Get your crap together. Ward’s makin’ ya look bad.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
They better lead with three of their top five including their best and that guy needs to be a top 10 overall player at a position where we have a need.
Uh-huh. Sure. Thirty starts and 300 IP, total. You bet.
monty
November 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
NCSCoots-” Me, I don’t much care about that kind of stuff. I take talent over David Eckstein every time.”
WOW! Aren’t you the one who usually complains about strawmen arguments and you go and say something like that. THrowing Ecksteins name into the same sentence as Martin Prado’s. I don’t think you have to sacrifice talent to get someone who plays the game the right way.(Prado) Sorry if you do. I never said anything about getting a scrappy .249 lifetime hitter.
Ward
November 28th, 2012
3:49 pm
Well you know what I meant to say! He did have a good stretch, and I made an error on that one. Braves will still not trade him.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Aren’t you the one who usually complains about strawmen arguments and you go and say something like that.
Sorry, man. I was going off “gamer”, rather than Prado, individually. I apologize.
Murph
November 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Actually BAS, we’re both wrong. Ward names the punctuation, the follows it up with several examples.
“The Braves won’t trade Schafer period……… they might trade Uggla though question mark ????????”
monty
November 28th, 2012
3:55 pm
Scoots
No problem. Stuff happens.
Bay Area Steve
November 28th, 2012
3:57 pm
“we’re both wrong”
I refuse to admit even the possibility. I’m going with Fake Ward is back…
RC
November 28th, 2012
3:57 pm
Just in case someone was still holding out hope on Josh Hamilton signing with the Braves, and looking for some obscure hometown connection to make you feel like it has a chance of happening, here you go:
So who, exactly, is the soft-spoken man behind the curtain in the Josh Hamilton negotiations? Moye, 55, is a Georgia native, Georgia Tech alumnus and Emory University Law School graduate who specialized in tax law before gravitating to the sports agent business. – ESPN, http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8683654/michael-moye-stays-background-agent-josh-hamilton
Puma
November 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
Slow day indeed….period
Ward
November 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
Medlen went 10, and 1 with a 1.57 ERA. Braves won something like 15 games when he pitched, before they lost a couple. Something like that. I think you could call him an Ace, and Braves will not trade him….
Ward
November 28th, 2012
4:03 pm
Murph – Nice try to make me look bad. Doesn’t hurt my feelings, and I’m not trying to start anything….You guys are cool…..
cricket
November 28th, 2012
4:05 pm
period
cornjolio
November 28th, 2012
4:06 pm
Chone Figgins may be Frank Wren’s kind of player:
The GA native will be 35 in January; in 2011 he hit .188 and
last season he hit a robust .181
With batting averages like that he’d nicely fit between Uggla & McCann in the Braves’ lineup
B.J. Upton
November 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
“Somebody get Upton on the dang phone, fercrissake. One way or the other, brother, let us have a word.: ncscoots
No !
Murph
November 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
BAS, that’s definitely Fake Ward.
braveslifer
November 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
Fangraphs just did an article on Wil Myers. I know there was a lot of discussions on the topic today http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/wil-myers-and-the-trap-of-filling-a-need/
Frank Wren
November 28th, 2012
4:10 pm
Where’s the thanks? All I hear is a bunch of negativity and griping. Here I work my butt off for you fans and using all my general management skills, go out and sign a talent like Jordan Schafer. Where is the gratitude?
Ward
November 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
If you were the Mets, would you sign David Wright for that huge contract? I would pass. He’soften injured, and I think the Mets could do better. That’s way to much money!
Frank Wren
November 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
I mean, I oh so skillfully wrestled Schafer away from Houston without giving up a single player.
Brava
November 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
Murph – Nice try to make me look bad. Doesn’t hurt my feelings, and I’m not trying to start anything….You guys are cool…..
Murph = jerk
Ward
November 28th, 2012
4:17 pm
I’ve been doing some reading, and if Braves sign B.J. Upton? Wren, could look at Angel Pagan, and Victorino next. A lot of teams are interested in Victorino, but Braves could still go after him too.
ryan
November 28th, 2012
4:17 pm
How can Rob Deer become a hitting coach when he couldn’t hit?
Brava
November 28th, 2012
4:19 pm
Why does this off-season feel so much like the last one?
Murph
November 28th, 2012
4:19 pm
Murph = jerk
I know you are, but what am I?
Puma
November 28th, 2012
4:21 pm
cornjolio – With batting averages like that he’d nicely fit between Uggla & McCann in the Braves’ lineup
Did anyone ever consider that FW might prefer to play a handicap system whereby he handicaps his own team, in fairness to other teams, and still win 94 games just to show how awesome he actually is? At least he is fair.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
4:21 pm
How can Rob Deer become a hitting coach when he couldn’t hit?
Those who can’t do, teach?
RC
November 28th, 2012
4:21 pm
From a Fangraphs chat:
“Comment From Bo
Who do you think wins the BJ Upton sweepstakes and how much? Doe
12:29
Dave Cameron: I think Atlanta signs him for 4/60.
“
If we can get him for that price, I’d be happy with it.
Ward
November 28th, 2012
4:23 pm
I just wonder where Dodgers got all the money? After the team was supposed to be in trouble? (Interesting). Fox signed a T.V. contract with the Dodgers. Hope the Dodgers trust Fox, like the Braves did at one time?
Ward
November 28th, 2012
4:25 pm
All, have good one! Good talking, and will talk tonight. Be cool , because I’m waiting like most everyone here. Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 28th, 2012
4:25 pm
Upton will go for more than 4 years guaranteed.
I miss Fake Ward. Whoever was Fake Ward please come back as it is becoming boring these last couple days and I could really use the laughter from reading Murph and Fake Ward arguing.
Arkansas Transplant
November 28th, 2012
4:25 pm
And are we talking to fake Ward?
RC
November 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
I just wonder where Dodgers got all the money? After the team was supposed to be in trouble? (Interesting). Fox signed a T.V. contract with the Dodgers. Hope the Dodgers trust Fox, like the Braves did at one time?
Dodgers were in trouble because the McCourts leveraged the team to the hilt, and suddenly the bills were coming due and they didn’t have the income or cash to cover them. The new owners came in with their own money to take the team out of the bad financial situation it was in, and due to the leverage they had from not being on the verge of bankruptcy, were able to take a stand in TV negotiations that allowed them to land a MONSTER TV deal, ensuring that they won’t be in money trouble again for a very long time. Unless Magic Johnson has a taste for eating teradactyl off of solid gold plates that he then discards of while lighting his cigar with $1,000 bills. Then they might run into some money problems.
Lew
November 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
Ward – No, The Dodgers weren’t in trouble, their ex owner was due to an acrimonious divorce (and assorted idiocy). But they were sold to a group that includes Magic Johnson and they have some deep pockets as well as a huge TV package, They’re now the West Coast Yankees in terms of ability to spend massive dollars.
raleighbravefan
November 28th, 2012
4:30 pm
braveslifer – Josh is a Raleigh boy…he ought to be a Braves fan himself.
CB
November 28th, 2012
4:33 pm
Speaking of Dodgers, I see they are in on Kyle Lohse. They will be the 1st 250mil payroll.
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
4:33 pm
Fangraphs just did an article on Wil Myers.
Have you ever read a fangraphs column in which the author thought trading a prospect was a good thing?
Murph
November 28th, 2012
4:36 pm
Yeah, Fake Ward was awesome. Some would argue that Fake Ward was more awesome than Real Ward… although it could be said that those who said that were actually reading Real Ward’s posts, assuming they were Fake Ward’s posts, and assigning awesomeness to the wrong person.
I wonder if there have actually been multiple “Wards”. Like some sort of superhero or something, Ward is actually just a person who is plucked from blog obscurity, given some training and coaching, then unleashed upon the blog as Real Ward until they are no longer able to carry out the Ward duties (posting old rumors, butchering the English language, misusing punctuation, etc)… at which point Real Ward passes off his duties to a new Ward and goes back to his (or her) life as a casual blog follower.
Perhaps there was some mixup in the transfer of power, which created two Wards at the same time. Real Ward was actually the old Ward while Fake Ward was the new Ward. They posted for some time before The Ward Organization realized there was an issue and fixed the problem. Or maybe New Ward, aka Fake Ward, killed the old Ward, aka Real Ward, in a coup and took over as some sort of Ward dictator, dissolving Ward Incorporated and doing away with the Ward system.
The World may never know period……..
raleighbravefan
November 28th, 2012
4:40 pm
Murph – Get the 4 year old on the Ward caper. She’ll figure it out.
P-Town Brave ©
November 28th, 2012
4:41 pm
@jcrasnick:
BJ Upton in SERIOUS talks w/ #Braves on multiyear deal source says
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
4:41 pm
The World may never know period……..
Have you been writing new game code or something? You seem a little feverish.
tony austin
November 28th, 2012
4:43 pm
BJ Upton in SERIOUS talks w/ #Braves on multiyear deal source says – P-Town Brave ©
Say it isn’t so Ethel.
Murph
November 28th, 2012
4:44 pm
Have you been writing new game code or something? You seem a little feverish.
You seem eager to change the topic, scoots…. or should I say Ward? Hmmmmmmmmm?
No, you couldn’t possibly be a Ward. You’d blow your cover after just a few hours.
Who could it be, who could it be question mark?
Tumbledown
November 28th, 2012
4:46 pm
This Ward theory sounds very similar to what happened with Zorro or the Dread Pirate Roberts in “The Princess Bride.” As long as there is no Anti-Matter Ward, the world should be safe.
ncbravesfan90
November 28th, 2012
4:46 pm
@jcrasnick:
BJ Upton in SERIOUS talks w/ #Braves on multiyear deal source says
This is the best news I’ve heard, all day, month, year, and maybe decade.
P-Town Brave ©
November 28th, 2012
4:46 pm
Forget my 72 hour window, according to multiple sources it looks as though BJ Upton could be in the bag before the next 7…..
ncscoots
November 28th, 2012
4:47 pm
I especially liked “The Ward Organization”. Kinda X-Files-y. Nice touch.