Braves target Upton, while weighing other CF options
(Staff writer Carroll Rogers is filling in for David O’Brien.)
The Braves are pursuing multiple options at center field, both through free agency and the trade market, but B.J. Upton has emerged as their top free agent choice.
Upton after one of his 28 homers in 2012
Braves general manager Frank Wren said the Braves are still in on the biggest free agent names out there, including their own Michael Bourn, Josh Hamilton and Angel Pagan, but they are making a strong push for Upton.
“We like him,” Wren said Monday. “But this time of year you’ve got a lot of lines in the water. You’re not sure which fish you’re going to catch. So you have to make sure that you have enough lines out there that you catch a fish. And we’re very much in that mode. We’re checking. We’re involved on just about everything, every center fielder that we like.”
The Braves invited the former Tampa Bay Rays center fielder to Atlanta last Thursday where team officials spent six hours with him touring Turner Field, giving him a behind the scenes look at their facilities and the inner workings of their organization and taking him out for a steak dinner in downtown Atlanta.
Upton and his agent Larry Reynolds met with Wren, assistant general manager Bruce Manno, manager Fredi Gonzalez, hitting coach Greg Walker and former Braves manager Bobby Cox.
“It’s a forum where you want both sides to get the information they need,” Wren said. “We felt like we got the information we needed, and we hopefully gave them all the information they need to have a good understanding of what we’re all about. And they got a chance to meet with the key people he’ll be interacting with. It worked out well.”
The Braves biggest competition for Upton is expected to come from the Phillies, who are prepared to make a big push as well. Phillies manager Charlie Manuel reportedly met with Upton last week as well.
Upton tweeted the night of his visit to Atlanta, “I’m really blown away by the love other cities are showing me right now. Can’t wait to see how this pans out.”
Upton, 28, a former No. 2 overall draft pick by the Rays in 2002, is expected to command a five-year deal worth around $75 million, which would make him more affordable than Bourn, despite being a year younger. Indications are that Bourn’s asking price will be well above that.
Upton is more of a power threat and would hit lower in the Braves order than the leadoff-hitting Bourn. Upton hit .246 last season but with a career-high 28 home runs and would give the Braves a right-handed bat for their lefty-dominated lineup. The Braves would then try to fill the leadoff role through a left field acquisition.
Still, Wren said the Braves haven’t ruled out Bourn, who turns 30 on Dec. 27.
“Until players start signing elsewhere, we’re in the mix and talking to everyone,” Wren said. “There are some preferences we have based on the way we feel like our team sets up. There are a number of guys out there that we like to fill that role for us.”
He includes Hamilton in that mix, even though the Braves aren’t likely to spend $20 million to $25 million annually to sign Hamilton.
“I just don’t exclude anything until we know for sure exactly what it’s going to be,” Wren said when asked about Hamilton. “I think it’s highly unlikely, but like I said, I don’t mark him off the list until he goes elsewhere and we hear that it’s not going to work.”
The good news for the Braves is that there are plenty of center fielders available this winter, including some that could come via trade, like Rockies center fielder and Atlanta native Dexter Fowler.
“We’ve got more than a handful of possibilities including trades and free agents,” Wren said. “So it’s a year where you would feel like you could come up with a center fielder that would be someone to continue to give us the quality we’ve had.”
Top choice to replace Ross
While it remains to be seen if the Braves will get their first choice in Upton – we need some big free agent chips to start falling – that’s what they did when they signed Gerald Laird to replace David Ross as backup catcher.
Wren said the Braves had a feeling as the season ended and the offseason began, Ross would command the sort of multi-year offer the Braves were not prepared to match for the 35-year-old. Ross got it from the Red Sox, at two years, $6.2 million, and the Braves immediately turned to Laird. They signed the 33-year-old to a two-year deal, believed to be for about $3.3 million.
This is Laird catching in Game 2 of the World Series for the Tigers
Laird, who just turned 33 last week, has played for back-to-back World Series teams with the Tigers and Cardinals.
“We felt all along he was a real good fit for us,” Wren said. “He’s a younger veteran. He’s played a lot with winning programs, so he’s been a guy that’s been a key backup on two World Series teams. He knows what he’s doing back there.”
Wren said the Braves had a lot of first-hand knowledge about Laird as well, from one of his top scouts Dom Chiti, who was the Rangers bullpen coach from 2006-2008. Laird spent his first six major league seasons with the Rangers, from 2003-2008.
Wren is quick to acknowledge what Ross meant to the Braves and clubhouse and called him to congratulate him on his contract with the Red Sox.
“I called him and wished him well and thanked him for what he did for us,” Wren said. “And (I) congratulated him for putting himself in a position to get that kind of deal.”
2,505 comments Add your comment
Ed
November 19th, 2012
3:33 pm
First!
Veer
November 19th, 2012
3:33 pm
Upton isn’t worth 15 million a year. Those of you who are tired of Ugglas 13 Million a year salary will be getting a worse player in Upton. Upton doesn’t even take walks like Uggl does. Signing Upton will be a dumb move. Rather than pay 15 Million a year to Upton it is better to pay 23 million a year to Hamilton. Upton isn’t worth it. Organization will regret signing this guy. I don’t know why he is the number 1 target for us. Wren is showing why he got fired from Baltimore. It’s better he didn’t have the money. Just because Braves have the money you would spend on a 230 hitter with less than 300 OBP?
Ward
November 19th, 2012
3:36 pm
Go!!!!!Braves!!!!! Get BJ. Upton…………will settle for others though, not too picky.
Clark Howard
November 19th, 2012
3:37 pm
With Lowe, Kawakami & Chipper’s contracts off the payroll, I thought the Braves would have some money to play with to acquire some younger talent.
However I see approximately 30% of the current payroll is tied up in just two players:
Dan Uggla (.220 average) and Brian McCann (.230)
Not exactly bang for the buck !
Ward
November 19th, 2012
3:38 pm
Thanks for Info Carroll…….Hope Mr. Wren, can pull something off? I’m within hope!
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
3:38 pm
Veer, Upton is better defensively than Uggla (I know that’s not saying much) and he plays centerfield, which requires a bit less offense than secondbase in order to provide offensive value.
With Upton, at the very least they are getting a younger version of Michael Bourn (though they arrive at their overall values in different ways). And there is some chance he puts together a legit all-star-caliber season at some point over the length of his next contract.
cornjolio
November 19th, 2012
3:39 pm
BJ Upton is expected to get $15 million a season for 5 years ?
Just keep Bourn !
Upton has hit in the .230-240s the past few seasons , struckout 169 times & had an OBP of only .298 in 2012.
I say PASS !
Another Uggla !
Veer
November 19th, 2012
3:39 pm
Ward I bet you haven’t seen Upton play? The guy is Uggla and Franceour combined in one.
You add 5 million more to 15 and you can get a super star.
cornjolio
November 19th, 2012
3:41 pm
Two words:
LORENZO CAIN !
Frank Wren, call Dayton Moore in Kansas city & get this guy for CF !
RetiredSoldier
November 19th, 2012
3:42 pm
I agree Veer, sign Hamilton and then bring up the G Brave that played first last year and put him in left. Simmons leads off and you will have a lot of pop in the lineup.
RetiredSoldier
November 19th, 2012
3:42 pm
I agree Veer, sign Hamilton and then bring up the G Brave that played first last year and put him in left. Simmons leads off and you will have a lot of pop in the lineup.
Ward
November 19th, 2012
3:43 pm
Veer – I’ve seen B.J. Play, and he can help down the stretch.
Veer
November 19th, 2012
3:43 pm
Shaun, Hope is not a strategy.
You can’t sign a guy like Upton and Hope that he becomes an allstar.
Glaus signing in 2010 was well worth it but here you are talking 15 million a year and if this guy doesn’t come through then we are stuck with a dead weight and also given our payroll limitations we would be cash strapped for the coming years. Given that we have limited funds each year this signing could be nail in the coffin for us for the next 5 years.
I am suprised that Wren even has thought of Upton as a possibility.
JT Grace
November 19th, 2012
3:44 pm
Hopefully the Phillies overpay for Upton like they do every other player. I guess Wren didn’t notice the .298 OBP that he had last year. Just because he is right handed doesn’t make him an ideal fit for the Braves. Denard Span is a much better option if they can trade for him. Victorino would even be a better option.
Ward
November 19th, 2012
3:44 pm
Carroll – Have you heard anything on Cody Ross, and what’s up with that lately?
Braves' Nation
November 19th, 2012
3:44 pm
I cringe when I hear names like BJ Upton & Josh Willingham possibly coming to Atlanta.
Upton is another Uggla. At 15 million a season for 5 years, along with Uggla & McCann’s contracts, add ing Upton would doom this franchise for years to come.
Frank, tell us it ain’t happening?
Puma
November 19th, 2012
3:46 pm
Carroll – do you also handle DOB’s twitter duties or is that still him?
Veer
November 19th, 2012
3:47 pm
Ward, A lot of other players can help down the stretch. Greogor Blanco helped big time down the stretch. 15 million dollars worth of hope on BJ UPOTON? That is like betting that DOB will get a date with Selena Gomez. It is not going to happen and even if it does DOB ends up in Jail. Likewise BJ Upton producing isn’t possible.
raleighbravefan
November 19th, 2012
3:48 pm
Shaun – Just my humble (obviously uninformed) opinion…. but I don’t give a ratz azz which position the offense comes from, as long as the team offense is adequate. I know you love to tout “offensive value” for each position, but if the SS and 2B are killing it, I’m OK with lighter hitting from the so-called offensive postions. I’m also less concerned about what any one player is paid, than I am with total cost for overall results. The young, guys, by definition, are way underpaid.
Gary O.
November 19th, 2012
3:49 pm
Upton hit .246 last season but with a career-high 28 home runs and would give the Braves a right-handed bat for their lefty-dominated lineup..
How effective will he be balancing out the lefty dominated lineup will depend on whether or not we get the Upton from last year. where he only hit .238/.322/.470/.792 against lefties.
FTPB,
Rick C,
Good catch. I think those were his numbers against LHP last year.
Bravoman,
Not Gary Oldman.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
3:51 pm
Veer, no one is talking about hoping Upton becomes an all-star. It’s just hoping he remains a solid player.
Uggla is a secondbaseman while Upton is a centerfielder. Uggla is probably even worse than Upton on defense. Uggla is older than Upton.
Francoeur is one of the worst players in the game, unfortunately (because he seems like a great guy). Both Upton and Uggla are far from that class.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
3:54 pm
I’ve seen BJ play as well, and I’ve seen enough of him to know that we don’t want him
Veer
November 19th, 2012
3:54 pm
Ichiro shoud be our target. He can duplicate Bourn atleast with a cheaper price tag.
For gods sake trade both Delgado and Teheran and get something worthy in return.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
3:54 pm
. He’s hit RHP and LHP fairly even over his career. 253/324/418 against RHP, 260/365/433 against LHP. (Upton)
.433 SLG against lefties isn’t that great. Even his numbers against RHP isn’t good either. Uggla and Mac (both of whom I’m sure we can agree aren’t lefty mashers) slug about .433 against lefties.
Astral
November 19th, 2012
3:55 pm
Uggla also makes fewer outs than BJ, way fewer last season
Veer
November 19th, 2012
3:56 pm
Would be fun to see Uggla and Upton hit back to back with runners on base and strike out and frustrate the fans. Juan Pierre just signed a 1 year cheap deal. That guy can do better average n OBP wise than Upton.
Ward
November 19th, 2012
3:57 pm
Veer – My first choice is B.J. Upton, but I’m open to others like Dexter Fowler, as well. I also like Cody Ross he would be my LF choice, but I’m open to others, as well.
JoeFan
November 19th, 2012
3:58 pm
Wren has a habit of throwing money at the wrong players. Upton is a real possibility of adding to that list.
b
November 19th, 2012
3:58 pm
I guess Constanza has some kind of plague. Amazing he gets no chance and then the Braves go and sign that cocky no good Schaefer. Constanza’s hit everywhere Jordan S. has done nothing but get arrested for pot and banned for steroids.
LawDawg
November 19th, 2012
3:58 pm
I usually don’t like to second guess GM’s, but holy s___, seriously?
Is our goal for next year to set the team record for most strikeouts and lowest team OBP? Because that certainly seems to be the goal. Uggla and Upton? Good lord.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
3:59 pm
raleighbravefan, that’s the point of positional scarcity from an offensive standpoint. If you have a catcher who can crush, like a McCann, you don’t necessarily need big-time offense from some other position, which makes offense at catcher that much more valuable than if the same offense came from, say, firstbase or leftfield. And if you get normal production from leftfield and firstbase, and you have a catcher that hits like a firstbaseman, you are a lot better offensively than most other teams. This is why paying attention to a guy’s offense compared to other players at the same position is an important factor and we shouldn’t just evaluate all offense as equal, without looking at the position from which it’s coming.
ChillyMutt
November 19th, 2012
4:00 pm
I-C-H-I-R-O
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 19th, 2012
4:01 pm
Astral
November 19th, 2012
3:22 pm
Chipper and Prado were above that for last season, not career. (on career numbers, no Braves beat him)
what an idiot, the big bashers are all lefthanded the supplementary guys will be righty. We were 20 plus games over 500 against righty starters and under 500 against leftys. On top of that you seem too ignorant to know that Uggla is actually better against righties and rather poor against lefties so putting him in that column is foolish.
Only a total baseball moron would think that we are not too lefthanded, the FO has said so repeatedly
the more I read your posts the more you remind me of Dentz
It’s funny, the more and more I see one of your posts I think to myself the same thing…man is this guy an idiot. The way he writes a post leads me to believe he has never finished high school and barely knows how to read and write. I think in the future every time I see your name next to a post I’ll just keep scrolling on my mouse.
Voice of Reason
November 19th, 2012
4:04 pm
I hold out hope that Wren can secure Span in a trade with the Twins and then go after Cuddyer of the Rockies (the Denver Post says he is available) to fill the left field spot. Adding Juan Francisco in a trade with Rockies (they have not had a decent 3rd baseman since Vinny) with some pitching (both Twins and Rockies are looking for that) might help.
No. 1 Braves Fan
November 19th, 2012
4:04 pm
Not good news that B. J. Upton is the Braves first choice for CF. I hope the Phillies get him. The Braves have other options excluding Hamilton that would cost much less and be just as productive. If they want to spend a lot of money on an Upton, go for his brother to play LF.
Joe
November 19th, 2012
4:04 pm
Just say NO to BJ Upton! Overrated and K-prone guy that swings for the downs with every stroke. I’d much rather cough up some of our overrated talent for the good Upton brother, if we can pry him loose from Kevin Towers…
Oh'man
November 19th, 2012
4:04 pm
Wow, really, 5 years 75 million for Upton? I will hate to have him here. I rather have Span, he is cheap and a better player. Wren is decent in certain areas but when it comes to high priced free agents he is terrible. Do NOT get neither of the Upton brothers. I prefer either Span or Pagan for center field. Call up Gattis (he is 26 years old sheesh, he either has it or he doesn’t stop wasting time leaving him in the minors) to play left. Easy, I should become a GM.
Veer
November 19th, 2012
4:04 pm
Ward If Upton is your number once choice then I question your baseball knowledge. Do you even watch games? BJ UPTON at 15 Mil a year is your NUMBER ONE CHOICE?
If Upton was 6 million a year Yes sure good deal but 15?? Give me 2 guys who earn 7.5 million and they will produce better.
Wren is pathetic if he is willing to pay 15 Mil a year for Upton and not give extra 2 million to retain ROSS
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
4:06 pm
Are we really thinking about paying another .240 hitter 15 million a year? What the hell is happening to MLB? Since when does such mediocrity deserve such a ridiculous payday? WTF Wren and JS? Where is this club headed? ‘Cause it shore ain’t lookin’ good!
Braves' Nation
November 19th, 2012
4:08 pm
Frank Wren is setting the Braves up for years of mediocrity !
Carroll Rogers
November 19th, 2012
4:09 pm
Puma, today it’s been me….but he’s likely to jump on there sometimes even when he’s off. …if it’s witty and information, it’s me……i’m kidding.
BusterBrave
November 19th, 2012
4:09 pm
Peter Bourgious of the Angels………won’t beat out Mike Trout for centerfield……a young,experienced,fast centerfielder,who needs a chance…….Lorenzo Cain of the Royals…..same thing……..Hello !!!!!!
Braves' Nation
November 19th, 2012
4:09 pm
for $15 mil a season just keep Michael Bourn !
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
4:10 pm
BJ Upton’s Fangraphs WAR, 2010-2012: 11.5
Martin Prado: 11.8
Brian McCann: 11.6
Chipper Jones: 7.8
Angel Pagan: 11.1
Adam Jones: 10
Denard Span: 8.6
cornjolio
November 19th, 2012
4:10 pm
L-O-R-E-N-Z-O C-A-I-N ! ! !
Ward
November 19th, 2012
4:12 pm
Wren, is setting the team to contend, and I’m excited about all this, so let’s all be cool, and relax……
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
4:12 pm
Have fun, Shaun
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
4:13 pm
MLB Trade Rumors @mlbtraderumors
Indians Open To Trading Cabrera, Choo http://bit.ly/10hl0RV #mlb
3-way trade…
Nick
November 19th, 2012
4:13 pm
“Upton doesn’t even take walks like Uggla does.”
Uggla doesn’t even play defense in center field like Upton does.
Ward
November 19th, 2012
4:13 pm
We all have our favorites, so let’s try to keep things peaceful today.
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
4:14 pm
Aren’t the Royals already stocked with pitching prospects? The Braves don’t exactly match up with them for trades.
Hope and Crap
November 19th, 2012
4:15 pm
Hope and Crap have a lot of similarities and the BOTH STINK……Hope is what we have done the last two or three seasons under the STINKING LEADERSHIP of Fredi G and Frank Wren……and STINK is what we got at the end of the season……let loose of some money and buy some real players – players that have fire in their guts and are not sissies like Jason Heyward……..
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
4:17 pm
Uggla doesn’t even play defense in center field like Upton does.
Uggla is a better defender at 2B than Upton is in CF, I’d be willing to bet.
Yuuup
November 19th, 2012
4:17 pm
I will believe it when I see it. I have a hard time believing that the Braves will sign any high priced free agent, even with having the money to spend. I expect them to trade for a second tier type of player with a lower price tag. That is Braves baseball all the way.
Puma
November 19th, 2012
4:18 pm
Right on Ward, why do people take baseball rumors (rumors mind you, not even transactions) so personally.
O.M.G.
November 19th, 2012
4:18 pm
TOBF–you just can’t help youself can you. You just love 3 ways.
Mikeyc588
November 19th, 2012
4:18 pm
Are you guys serious about your valuations? You think $15m a season for a 28 year old CF who almost went 30/30 last year is overpaying? I’m not saying I love Upton, but I don’t think that is at all unreasonable in free agency for a 3-5 WAR player.
braveslover
November 19th, 2012
4:18 pm
Where you been? They met last Thursday or Friday and you are just now getting around to reporting it?
benchwarmer
November 19th, 2012
4:18 pm
ichiro is too old
Myke hawk
November 19th, 2012
4:19 pm
Braves should’ve targeted Chris young
Myke hawk
November 19th, 2012
4:20 pm
Still think the braves should go after a pitcher
benchwarmer
November 19th, 2012
4:20 pm
I would prefer a hitter who makes contact, gets on base at a good rate and doesn’t make a lot of unproductive outs. Upton does not sound like he fits the bill.
El Bravo
November 19th, 2012
4:21 pm
As frustrating as Uggla has been he at least gets on base at a .340 clip. BJ Upton has an OBP of under .300! We might as well bring back Jeff Francour…
Ward
November 19th, 2012
4:22 pm
All, have a good one! Be cool , and excellent to one another. I’ll talk tonight, and Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 19th, 2012
4:23 pm
Aaaah it’s fun seeing all of these armchair GM’s come on here and giving us their experts opinions on who will work and who will do what for the value of the contract. I bet a lot of you doing so are part of that group who never go to games and just love to complain. Wren has some $ to spend and prospects to trade but I don’t think players like Ichiro, Cain, Ross, Pagan, Willingham are what he has in mind as premium players. He’s looking for players with a bigger impact who are still young and either in their prime or right around reaching it.
richbrave
November 19th, 2012
4:23 pm
Ward
November 19th, 2012
4:12 pm
“…..Wren, is setting the team to contend, and I’m excited about all this, so let’s all be cool, and relax…..……”
Calm called for by WARD in a seething cauldron of blog passion.
Oh my. Good on yeh, WARD.
He’s right. Bring it down a few decibles. Let’s hang onto our wits while we impatiently wait for results.
The Fact Book
November 19th, 2012
4:25 pm
John Schuerholz looked like a genius when he had Ted Turner’s deep pockets at his disposal; once Ted sold the team, Schuerholz took on Mike Hampton’s contract, alienated Tom Glavine from re-signing with the Braves, traded for JD Drew and traded away the farm system for one year of Mark Teixeira. These moves pretty much kep the Braves out of the post-season for many seasons.
Now we know where Frank Wren got his education, from the same John Schuerholz that bankrupted the Royals in 1990 with bad personnel moves and free agent signings.
tony
November 19th, 2012
4:27 pm
I wouldn’t touch B.J Upton. Resign Michael Bourn and sign Josh Hamilton.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
4:27 pm
Upton’s career OBP is .336. Francoeur’s is .310.
Francoeur’s a corner-outfielder. Upton’s a centerfielder.
Ron
November 19th, 2012
4:27 pm
Wow, B.J. Upton, i say no way Jose! I don’t like his brother either, we need a lead-off guy to play CF and that is not BJ. Span or Fowler or Pagan or Cain, anybody other than this dude. The LF position needs to be filled with a right handed power bat, something the Braves have needed for quite awhile now. If you got a right handed power bat this would help out Uggla tremendously and he would be the player Wren envisioned in the first place. My line-up would be: 1) Span CF 2) Prado 3rd 3) Heyward RF 4) Willingham LF 5) Freeman 1st 6) Uggla 2nd 7) McCann/Laird C
Simmons SS 9) Pitcher. Rotation: 1) Medlen R 2) Minor L 3) Hudson R 4)Maholm L 5) Delgado/Tehran/Gilmartin/Spruill/J.R. Graham until Beachy back midseason. Bullpen: Kimbrel, Venters, O’Flaherty, Avilian, Durbin, C. Martinez, Gearrin. Bench: Francisco, R. Johnson, Pastornicky, Mejia, G. Laird. 2013 Bravos!!
cornjolio
November 19th, 2012
4:28 pm
BravePack(FreeFan) ,
Lorenzo Cain is only 26, bats right-handed, has speed, is a contact hitter, great with the glove in CF & is CHEAP !
15 mil for a guy like Upton who MIGHT be reaching their prime?
tony austin
November 19th, 2012
4:29 pm
I’m not sure how to format on this blog so I apologize if this doesn’t post legibly.
FYI, here are the FA signings by FW according to an Excel Spreadsheet offered by MLB Trade Rumors: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/frank_wren/
11/18/2007 Tom Glavine 1 year/ $8M
1/13/2009 Derek Lowe 4 years/ $60M
1/13/2009 Kenshin Kawakami 3 years/ $23M
2/24/2009 Garret Anderson 1 year/ $2.5M
3/13/2009 Chipper Jones (Extension) 3 years/ $42M
11/12/2009 Tim Hudson (Extension) 3 years/ $28M
12/2/2009 Billy Wagner 1 year/ $7M
12/3/2009 Takashi Saito 1 year/ $3.2M
12/12/2009 Troy Glaus 1 year/ $2M
I’m not sure why I felt I need/want to post this, so take it as you will.
richbrave
November 19th, 2012
4:31 pm
BravePack(FreeFan):
You mean guys like WIL MYERS, OSCAR TAVARAS, MIKE OLT?
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
4:31 pm
tony, the Braves don’t have enough free payroll to sign Hamilton plus another high price FA.
Arkansas Transplant
November 19th, 2012
4:31 pm
We always match up with KC.. they are always wanting what the Braves have or have had.
beekay
November 19th, 2012
4:33 pm
I don’t believe that anyone will give Bourn more than 5 and 75. I think thats cray as well. I wouldn’t go higher than 4 and 48 for him or Upton. I’d rather sign Victorino or Pagan for half the money and trade for Willingham. We have enough arms to get Willingham. This gives us additional money for solid bench players and keeps our payroll flexibe for the next 3 year as well.
tony austin
November 19th, 2012
4:34 pm
Maybe FW has no intention of signing Upton, maybe he’s just trying to drive his price up for the Phillies
Rick James
November 19th, 2012
4:34 pm
Why cant the Braves throw Chipper and Derek Lowe’s money that coming off the books at Micheal Bourne.Of course the Braves like Upton he’s cheaper and takes our minds off off Bourne!! Frank Wren has to play the hand that Liberty deals him so I believe he will do the best with what he has to work with..Please Mark Cuban buy this team!
Puma
November 19th, 2012
4:35 pm
Tony Austin – I would say the only bad signings on that list are the top 3, Glavine (mostly because he was never used), Lowe and Kawakami. Hard to believe that is the total list of FAs, seems thin.
just saying
November 19th, 2012
4:37 pm
Would Billy Bean, make this kind of move?…. Not only no, but he77 no….
extremus
November 19th, 2012
4:37 pm
Reading through the list of potential candidates I noticed that every one of them comes with a caveat (like the salary requirements of Hamilton, though I do agree he would “put butts in seats”) or a key weakness in an area of production. I think all of them offer something good, but just as we all learned with the Uggla (and other) trade, you never really know what each side is getting until after the fact even if a player is “established”. In short, there’s risk involved no matter what Frank Wren ends up doing.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
4:37 pm
Maybe FW has no intention of signing Upton, maybe he’s just trying to drive his price up for the Phillies
That would be perfect. Cuz to spend 15mil or so on this guy, in the hopes that he gets better when there currently isn’t any indication that he will, is quite crazy. He’s worth about 9-10mil a yr to me right now max, and isn’t worth the loss of a draft pick. Stay away.
just saying
November 19th, 2012
4:40 pm
Good point,… I’ve been watching “Moneyball” to much..
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
4:41 pm
Would Billy Bean, make this kind of move?
Who knows? But Billy Beane probably would, considering he essentially just traded for a similar player: Chris Young.
raleighbravefan
November 19th, 2012
4:41 pm
beekay – I believe you are wrong about Bourn. Wait and see. He will probably get more than 5 years, and will get more than $15mil/year…probably at least $18mil/year, 6-7 years.
Lord Hep US!!
November 19th, 2012
4:42 pm
Tell me Upton is all a ploy to help him get more money out of the Phillies? Or is it the other way around.
Let me get this straight – the Braves are actually mulling over giving a guy 15 million a year — who has NOT hit over .250 in the last FOUR YEARS!! He gets thrown out trying to steal 1/3 of the time.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/u/uptonbj01.shtml
If the Braves do not have someone in the minors leagues capable of hitting 250 and playing the outfield they should fire the whole front office.
This is the most insane thing I have seen – is this the same Upton who is known as a huge negative in the clubhouse?
Tell me where I am wrong here.
Please do.
Ten to one they lose Prado and O’flaherty because they won’t pay them.
HooRah
November 19th, 2012
4:43 pm
heck Astral, don’t you know that Pack played ball for 30 years through Division A . Of course that seems like a lot of years to get through college which might be why his posts never seem to pan out.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
4:44 pm
who has NOT hit over .250 in the last FOUR YEARS!! He gets thrown out trying to steal 1/3 of the time.
The same Upton who has done the the previous three seasons:
BJ Upton’s Fangraphs WAR, 2010-2012: 11.5
Martin Prado: 11.8
Brian McCann: 11.6
Chipper Jones: 7.8
Angel Pagan: 11.1
Adam Jones: 10
Denard Span: 8.6
afan
November 19th, 2012
4:44 pm
Thanks Carroll for new post..We have a new post-up but same old bloggers that know more than Wren and his staff. Why not just fire Wren and staff and hire the best old farts on blog that know more than GM. Maybe Wren has not been to 500 Rays games as some on here claim– are smart enough to know who Braves need–give me be a break- Wren is not crazy and alot smarter than 98% on this blog.
Carroll you only talked about CF..Whatabout LF and 3b?
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 19th, 2012
4:45 pm
richbrave
November 19th, 2012
4:31 pm
BravePack(FreeFan):
You mean guys like WIL MYERS, OSCAR TAVARAS, MIKE OLT?
Yes I would love any one of these guys. Young, controllable talent with bright futures. I believe Wren feels the same way as far as going after these types of players more so than players like Willingham, Ross, and I hope Pagan.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
4:45 pm
I know the price tag on Upton is high, but you all do realize that he was only 2 HRS from being a 30/30 man last year.
I do expect the OBP to not be .298, more like in the .320’s.
No one likes the prce tag but that is the business of major league baseball & the above average players are going to get paid. Hey, its not your money. The big parent corporation is not going broke owning a baseball team — so stop pitying the owners.
If Upton can go .260/.320 and be a 30/30 guy with 90 to 100 RBI’s that is worth the money in today;s game.
His defense well, its a mixed bag. Some like him others don’t. Some overanalyze it to the point it ceases to be a game for enjoyment.
To each one’s opinion, I like it that Frank is aggressively pursuing one of the more sought after FA’s this yr. Rest assued that if BJ was so bad with the minuses around him he would not be pursued by so many GM;s (and some who have built successful tems).
If Philly wants him, I want to at least compete for him.
And we all know about the upside. I like the talk this winter — FW is being allowed to try. That is all U can ask.
HooRah
November 19th, 2012
4:45 pm
But Bean is not paying Young 5/75, nor will he Shaun so that doesn’t mean anything
Amber Girl
November 19th, 2012
4:47 pm
OK Guys Can anyone tell me what happened to the Span Willingham scenario?
Gary O.
November 19th, 2012
4:47 pm
Uggla’s career OBP is .343, and BJ’s career OBP is .336, so they are close.
Uggla struggled last year, hitting .220, with 19 HR and 78 RBI, while BJ hit .246 with 28 HR, 78 RBI, and 31 SB. If we could get both of them to have solid years, this team would be dangerous. But to have to “hope” Uggla returns to normal, “hope” B-Mac isn’t out very long AND returns to norm, and “hope” BJ improves…that’s a lot of hoping (imo).
And to think those 3 guys would combine to make ~$40 mil, ~42% of our payroll.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
4:47 pm
For what it’s worth:
Braves 2012 Versus Left-Hand Pitchers:
.244/.315/.374/.689
Braves 2012 Versus Right-Hand Pitchers:
.249/.323/.398/.721
cornjolio
November 19th, 2012
4:47 pm
“If the Braves do not have someone in the minors leagues capable of hitting 250 and playing the outfield they should fire the whole front office.” – Lord Hep US !
They do not !
cornjolio
November 19th, 2012
4:48 pm
Amber Girl,
Only DOB mentions Josh Willingham; no other sources do.
Cali Brave fan
November 19th, 2012
4:48 pm
Upton can play D and hit for power. But the way most of you guys have been hammering on Uggla all season for his BA your gonna love upton. the only one to benefit from getting Upton is Uggla because he’ll get less heat from the fans. Where better off taking a chance with costanza and Gattis. But my favorite would have to be Pagan if we could out bid SF for him. the Bourgious idea works.
Other Than
November 19th, 2012
4:49 pm
I spoke personally with Mr Wren recently at a function and we discussed Bourn and Upton. He told me he would LOVE to have Bourn back BUT there was NO way the Braves are writing a 100 milion check to him. He said Boros was nuts! Upton he said was a good match but again neither are NOT guarantees for a World Series team and he said he make sure we get a good one……Bourn was his choice though.
I was impressed.
tony austin
November 19th, 2012
4:50 pm
Why not just fire Wren and staff and hire the best old farts on blog that know more than GM. – afan
We may not be GMs on this blog but most of these “old farts” as you say have been following the Braves and baseball in general long enough to know what they are talking about.
So they may not be GMs but I would trust some of them over Frank Wren any day.
Greg O.
November 19th, 2012
4:51 pm
I’m an out-of-towner who’s in Atlanta for the first time in 10 years and went to take a Turner Field tour today. I found it interesting when we got to the clubhouse and saw some stuff the Braves did to welcome Upton. What intrigued me most was the potential line-up they posted on a TV screen – 1) Prado LF 2) Upton CF 3) Heyward RF 4) Freeman 1B 5) Uggla 2B 6) Simmons SS 7) Francisco 3B
McCann C 9) Medlen P. It’s probably irrational to read anything into this. But I wouldn’t be thrilled by Prado moving to the leadoff spot. Nor would I expect McCann to bat eighth when healthy and hopefully effective. Best case with Upton in the fold would be another acquisition as leadoff man in left and move Prado to 3B and down in the order.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
4:51 pm
Upton can not play D in CF….. what gives you guys that indication? What, because he’s fast? Speed isn’t everything. If it was, Constanza and Pastornicky would have been great defenders.
Nerdville
November 19th, 2012
4:52 pm
isn’t upton a headcase? 5 yrs./$75m would be nuts for this guy.
Russ Nixon
November 19th, 2012
4:52 pm
So who is going to make him hustle and not let him argue with his teamates? No Chipper in the dugout any more. Do we need a loafer and malcontent? Maybe he has changed, we’ll see. Don’t want another Kenny Lofton.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
4:52 pm
“Why cant the Braves throw Chipper and Derek Lowe’s money that coming off the books at Micheal Bourne.Of course the Braves like Upton he’s cheaper and takes our minds off off Bourne!! Frank Wren has to play the hand that Liberty deals him so I believe he will do the best with what he has to work with..Please Mark Cuban buy this team!”
Good question — maybe Wren does not want to play Borass’ last minute game with the way he holds out to the last minute & if he gets burned by Borass/Bourn, then he has no reasonable option.
Wish the game could do something about Borass and his tactics — like holding out his draft picks till the last minute, and the way he plays his games.
FW might be covering himself vs Borass. Borass is the enemy of baseball.
As for Mark Cuban — I dont know if he will get into the game and that is a shame. That is MLB;s loss.
HooRah
November 19th, 2012
4:52 pm
But I wouldn’t be thrilled by Prado moving to the leadoff spot. Greg
why not, he had a great season there a few years ago. Scored 100 runs, which Bourn has never done yet
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
“He gets thrown out trying to steal 1/3 of the time.”
No, he doesn’t.
Gary O.
November 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
Disgusted,
If Upton can go .260/.320 and be a 30/30 guy with 90 to 100 RBI’s that is worth the money in today;s game..
In 6 full seasons, his career high in RBI is 82, and has only hit more than 80 twice. In the last 6 years, he has averaged 71 RBI’s. What makes you think he can get 90-100 RBI’s?
Bob
November 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
B J Upton = B J Surhoff. Wren has already used up his bad trades on Uggly, KK, Lowe, etc. Maybe time to admit that we’re not good quite yet, and bring up our own replacement…shoot for a legitimate shot in 2014 rather than one and done as in the past eight years. Or maybe it’s time to replace Wren?
Mikeyc588
November 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
Lord Hep US!! –
“He gets thrown out trying to steal 1/3 of the time.”. What are you looking at? In the last four years, Upton is 151/192 for a 79% success rate. Last year is was 31/37 for an 84% rate.
Nerdville
November 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
i read other bloggers trying to defend wren. give it up guys. you can’t defend the indefensible.
Dan Uggla's Swing
November 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
please for the love of the game, no more power wanna be power hitters. SO’s do not drive in runs. The Braves have been plagued the last couple of years with LOBsters, it is high time to start signing contact hitters, slap hitters, pesky hitters, all with OBP’s. With our pitching, we should not be looking to win off the 3 run homer, It may not come. Our inconsistent offense was our demise this past season. Address the problem, do not sign up for more of the same please.
beekay
November 19th, 2012
4:55 pm
Why do people keep posting to trade Uggla? We would have to eat over 50% of his salary to move him….keep him, he is RH and will hit 25 hr and drive in about 80-100
Mikeyc588
November 19th, 2012
4:56 pm
Oh, and Michael Bourn’s SB% last season? 76%.
Greg O.
November 19th, 2012
4:56 pm
HooRah – I don’t think he batted leadoff that whole year. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember him doing well in the 2 spot and then struggling while leading off.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
4:56 pm
If BJ is such a loafer than why are so many good GM;s (including ours) pursuing him.
Thank God FW does not make decisions according to the various blogs on the net — cause if the guys in charge are listening to the fans, than they will be sitting next to em soon.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
4:56 pm
BJ Upton has a 77% career SB rate. Hardly call that getting thrown at 1/3 of the time. Bourn is at 81% btw.
jbill
November 19th, 2012
4:56 pm
disguested I agree @4:45
slick
November 19th, 2012
4:56 pm
Are you kidding me? This guy batted .246 and hasn’t hit above .250 for the last 4 years. 15 mil a yr for 5 years is nuts. This is not a smart move. Let Philly have him. He is not a premier player that should be getting all this interest. We must have some young talent better than this coming up.
VinceVanGo
November 19th, 2012
4:57 pm
Frank Wren is not as stupid as some people think. He proved last winter that he has no intention of bankrupting the farm system. He will either trade for a center fielder and buy a free agent left fielder or vice versa, but he won’t trade for both positions, the Braves don’t have the assets for that. In that scenario it looks like there are more free agent center fielders than left fielders so his choice may be a lot simpler. Now if can get someone to take Jurrgens & Hanson for a decent outfielder, by all means do it. Then you still have Delgado & Teheran to battle for the 5th spot until Beachy returns.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
4:58 pm
Gee how dumb is WREN anyway… give Upton 15 Mil a year ??? REALLY ???
tony austin
November 19th, 2012
4:58 pm
Don’t want another Kenny Lofton. – Russ Nixon
If anyone ever showed they didn’t want to be where they were it was him. But I have to give the man props, he didn’t let his attitude control his bat, .333 avg, 409 OBP; I think I’d take that version of Kenny over today’s version of Upton any day of the week.
Peter R.
November 19th, 2012
4:59 pm
I think the Braves have the right idea in trying to sign Upton. I bet his asking price will come down. Upton for about 12 million per year would acceptable. But with free agency in the modern day and age means that prices for these places can get way out of whack, please see Crawford. The Braves need to strike while the iron is hot. If Bourn’s price is completely unreasonable, then the Braves are right to look elsewhere. I really don’t think he is worth that kind of money. The Braves need some thump in their lineup. I’m sure their general management will make the right move. I trust Wren a lot more after getting to 94 wins with Lowe and Jones’ dead money on the roster. The rotation looks to be stellar. Now we need a couple of solid above average bats to get us over the hump. Maybe the Braves go crazy and somehow find away to get Upton for a good price, then who else would they get for left, Victorino? If Simmons could somehow bat leadoff, then the Braves might be able to escape having to cough up the big bucks. So, here we are provided the Braves go completely insane and sign Swisher and Upton. Then we could have a better than average lineup: 1. simmons, 2 prado, 3 heyward, 4 upton/Swisher (don’t want back to back left handed hitters), 5 freeman (preferably)/Swisher/Upton, 6 Swisher/Freeman/Upton, 7 McCann’t 8 Fuggly (My faith in him is gone for good). I just think they need two way above average bats to make up for the fact that Mac and Fuggly might not produce so well. McCann I could see strongly bouncing back and putting together a career year. He’s prime for it, provided the surgery was the reason why his production had dropped. Fuggly could too, never know for certain. The lineup, provided Simmons produced in the lead off spot, would certainly have plenty of power with a decent amount of speed. Such is baseball. Hopefully just avoid having a couple black holes in the lineup like last year. Hope and pray Mac and Fuggly don’t suck.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
4:59 pm
Frank Wren is not as stupid as some people think.
Correct……. he is dumber than most think !
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
4:59 pm
“Why do people keep posting to trade Uggla? We would have to eat over 50% of his salary to move him….keep him, he is RH and will hit 25 hr and drive in about 80-100″
Thank You beekay — hey, he hit 36 and drove in 82 last yr.
He showed signs late in the yr ——- In Dan Uggla I believe.
He will do better — and he does not play a bad second & in spite of his adveristy has never been a negative in the clubhouse.
We need the ‘Good” Dan Uggla– and the healthier B-Mac even if its only for one more yr.
jbill
November 19th, 2012
4:59 pm
nerdville are you saying he is like our Pres—
Heath
November 19th, 2012
4:59 pm
Re:
For what it’s worth:
Braves 2012 Versus Left-Hand Pitchers:
.244/.315/.374/.689
Braves 2012 Versus Right-Hand Pitchers:
.249/.323/.398/.721
The Braves DO need to perform better against lefties… but against righties too.
HooRah
November 19th, 2012
5:00 pm
Prado played the second half mostly at leadoff and hit .322 .362 .521 .882 and scored 54 runs in 66 games
Harry Callahan
November 19th, 2012
5:00 pm
Should have let McCann go and kept Ross. Hate to say it, but McCann hasn’t looked good since 2010.
For those of you dissing Upton, Bourn was pretty much Uggla Part 2 at the plate the latter half of 2012. See no reason to pay Scott Boras type money to keep Bourn.
ChattTownBrian
November 19th, 2012
5:02 pm
Upton is “blown away” with the love he’s getting. So am I.
Yuuup
November 19th, 2012
5:02 pm
Greg O,
That was definitely a makeshift lineup card with having Francisco as the starting 3rd basemen. Funny how they want to try and woo a free agent, but they have Juan Francisco in the starting lineup. I know they couldn’t put anyone else in that position, but they just should have let it be all together.
news flash from this afternoon
November 19th, 2012
5:03 pm
Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports that the Phillies remain in the market for all three leading free agent outfielders — B.J. Upton, Michael Bourn, and Josh Hamilton — and describes Hamilton as a “fallback” option for Philadelphia in the event they are unable to land Upton or Bourn.
Danny Knobler described the Phillies as “favorites” to sign Upton
MoBrave
November 19th, 2012
5:03 pm
Trade for Span or Fowler, sign Hamilton. Done.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
5:03 pm
I find it hilarious that no one is even bothering with how many wins B.J. Upton may have been worth and what he’s likely to be worth in the next few seasons. Everyone is cherry-picking some stats that confirm their views on Upton without asking the big question of whether he’s a solid option.
Assuming you already know more than the data and using the data to help everyone else along doesn’t mean you have wisdom on this. Go where the data leads you, whether you like it or not. It’s foolish to ignore the data when you don’t like where it’s leading you.
Don’t make up your mind, then look for data that supports what you’ve decided. Use the data and use it correctly to provide answers.
afan
November 19th, 2012
5:04 pm
Thanks peter for your smarer than a 5th grade opinion.
Astral
November 19th, 2012
5:04 pm
and hit .322 .362 .521 .882 and scored 54 runs in 66 games @HooRah
Not exactly struggling
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
5:04 pm
Lefty, Righty, whatever, if your a good ballplayer your’re a good ballplayer & if your are major league the splits are not that important.
Per Heath’s post at 4:59, the splits are not that far off.
Do our guys need to do better — of course.
The baseball community has gone into Overanalyzation Overdrive ——– Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nostradamus
November 19th, 2012
5:05 pm
Phillies will sign BJ Upton
Nationals will sign Michael Bourn
Braves are content with Jordan Schafer
it is written …
Astral
November 19th, 2012
5:06 pm
I find it hilarious that no one is even bothering with how many wins B.J. Upton may have been worth @Shaun
probably because those models are just that – models. Most don’t believe in them much so why would they be discussing them?
Tumbledown
November 19th, 2012
5:08 pm
But, what if the Phillies cannot even sign Hamilton, who is their fallback option then . . . a young Willie Mays??
raleighbravefan
November 19th, 2012
5:08 pm
jbill – I do.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
5:10 pm
Astral, what models? All I’m talking about is trying to figure out how many wins B.J. Upton may have been worth, the best way you can.
Instead it seems many have decided that Upton is near worthless and are cherry-picking some stats to confirm their views and to bring others along. Many of those folks have all the qualifications to be members of the BBWAA.
Kevin Chop
November 19th, 2012
5:10 pm
Wow, it just keeps getting more sad everyday. 15 million a year for a guy who couldn’t hit 250. How about we actually go get a superstar like Josh Hamilton that will actually put butts in the seats and who will actually be very good leading our team. Then you can bring Constanza up to play in the outfield with Hamilton and Heyward.
Mikeyc588
November 19th, 2012
5:10 pm
You know who else hit under .250? Josh Reddick. You know who I wish the Braves had? Josh Reddick. I don’t think Upton is a perfect player, but he’s a righthanded 28 year old who plays a decent CF, is a 30/30 threat and, actually, has had decent success hitting leadoff (career .747 OPS in that spot, not that they’ll hit him there, but still). We could do, and have done, a lot worse in free agency. If the Braves do sign him, I’ll support him and wish him the best, just as I do all Braves since I’m a fan of the team. After seeing what Jayson Werth got two years ago at at 31, I’d probably do 5 years and $75m for Upton without much hesitation. But honestly, no matter what happens with Upton, the Winter Meetings haven’t even happened yet. I try not to get too worked up one way or the other until pitchers and catchers report.
Nicholas Brody
November 19th, 2012
5:11 pm
If Kris Medlen doesnt win at least 80% of his starts in 2013, we will not be a play-off team. In the last two months of the 2012 season, we were barely a .500 team in starts made by the other 4 starters.
Braves management got lucky in 2012 with Medlen’s emergence. They gave starts to everyone but Medlen during the first 4 months of the season in the 5th starter’s role. After going 5-12 in Delgado’s starts, after Hanson going on the DL, did Medlen finally get his chance.
Our offense is a flawed team. Freeman, Heyward and Prado are the only proven hitters we have. Simmons has potential, but has yet to prove over a whole season that he can hit in the Majors. Laird, Uggla, Schafer and Francisco pretty much stink!
Amber Girl
November 19th, 2012
5:12 pm
Another Question guys. Why not trade for Span? Sign Cody Ross. Move Prado to 3rd. Now you have 5 RH bats, Uggla, Simmons,Prado, Ross, And Span. What do you think guys?
HooRah
November 19th, 2012
5:12 pm
DENTZ is back yet again as Brody. Oh thrill.
his name is legion
November 19th, 2012
5:15 pm
oh great, now we have both Dentz and BravePack (if they are not the same), two of the most obnoxious know it all to grace out blog
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
5:15 pm
Kevin Chop: Lost all credibility when you mentioned Constanza having a role on the 25man… and then you have him starting? Good heavens
Heath
November 19th, 2012
5:15 pm
Question: Did Theo Epstein play baseball for 30 years?
eddie47
November 19th, 2012
5:16 pm
Just what we need, another over-priced under-performing Ugglier clone. Upton’s lifetime BA 255, never 100 RBI’s, and under 300 OBP is not even worth 5 million much less $15 million. If Wren signs this guy we are toast for next year since he won’t be able to afford anyone else of any value. Besides ‘06 and ‘07 he’s never hit over 246. For a team with a tight budget to give this clown $15million is the height of idiocy (Wren).
Luman Harris
November 19th, 2012
5:17 pm
I’d be willing to bet that Frank Wren is working on a deal or signing that no one is talking about.
bvillebaron
November 19th, 2012
5:20 pm
AmberGirl:
Span throw and BATS left handed.
Reality
November 19th, 2012
5:22 pm
He showed signs late in the yr ——- In Dan Uggla I believe.
“He will do better — and he does not play a bad second & in spite of his adveristy has never been a negative in the clubhouse.
We need the ‘Good” Dan Uggla–
Hey, Disgusted. Whatever you are smoking, can I have some?
I have 13 million reasons (for 3 more seasons) Uggla should be let go.
JWeihrauch
November 19th, 2012
5:22 pm
This will be the worst move of Frank Wren’s career if he signs BJ Upton. I would only take BJ Upton if we can trade Teheran for his brother.
Perhaps having his brother around would help his batting average and OBP.
At least with the Uggla trade, the guy hit north of 270 and 30 HRs. Not Wren’s fault he’s sucked for us.
Frank Wren
November 19th, 2012
5:23 pm
Matt Diaz in LF, Jordan Schafer in CF & Martin Prado on 3B
Our 2013 lineup is set !
ChattTownBrian
November 19th, 2012
5:23 pm
Luman, I’d be willing to bet you’re probably right. Upton might sign here, but I have a feeling it’ll have to be because he likes Atlanta more than other places like Philly. Doubt Wren bids the highest offer to this guy.
David O'Brien
November 19th, 2012
5:24 pm
A look at some potential Braves targets on free-agent and trade markets:
http://www.ajc.com/gallery/sports/baseball/braves-likely-offseason-targets/g6YB/#2888869
MiaBchBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
5:24 pm
Upton is a mistake. I would much rather take a strong run at Pagan or Fowler, and make a better run at a LF RH power bat.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
5:25 pm
Astral, well, in order to make a valid assessment of Upton or any player the Braves are considering, you need to get at some idea of what Upton or any other player is worth. It’s not valid if you just make up your mind based on vague notions and subjective views and then cherry-pick some data that confirms what you think.
Doesn’t really matter what model or method you use to get at a player’s value, as long as it is somehow valid in terms of relating what a player’s done and is likely to do with creating/preventing runs. Too few are concerned with getting a players’ values, as we see in the awards voting and as we see in the opinions about possible acquisitions.
Amber Girl
November 19th, 2012
5:26 pm
@bvillebaron Thanks for info. Sorry Iam still learning.
ga gator
November 19th, 2012
5:26 pm
Unless Upton grows up he does not fit the mold of the Braves clubhouse personality. Spoiled brat who will spell trouble for the organization.
MiaBchBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
5:27 pm
Dan Uggla: the NEW Mo Vaughn (Mets’ version). Look it up, kids, and ponder the sickeningly awful waste.
bvillebaron
November 19th, 2012
5:30 pm
That’s okay, I initially thought (and hoped) Span batted right-handed. We all can keep learning about this game and the players, but may I suggest that if you take too much to heart from what you read from some of the armchair geniuses on here, you will be infintiely dumber because of it.
Tumbledown
November 19th, 2012
5:32 pm
Shaun – Is Upton’s value enough to merit $15 million per year for five years?
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
5:34 pm
Span hits lefties well, not a big deal in his case
Preston Hannatized
November 19th, 2012
5:34 pm
I’m loving how Wren makes it look like he knew all along that Ross was leaving and he “immediately” scooped up Laird.The man in insufferably smug with little to be smug about. Laird is not Ross.
And, are you serious — the Braves have no chance to sign Josh Hamilton. But adding Upton wouldn’t be the end of the world. Still, buying him a steak dinner and showing him around the Ted ain’t getting him here. Cash talks.
Wren is a bottom feeder. After the real player$$$ sort out the FA’s of value, he’ll make some low hanging fruit selection and tell everyone how so-and-so will really help “our club.” He’ll tell us how “We’ve wanted him all along.” Frankly, it’s BS.
Ken Stallings
November 19th, 2012
5:35 pm
BJ Upton is not the first Upton would want for the Braves. His batting and on base averages are low and his home run numbers must be looked at in full context. The stadium in Tampa Bay is a bandbox in comparison to Turner Field.
BJ Upton’s OBA is a below average .298 from last season, and he struck out 169 times with only 45 walks. With the premium of getting on base, I can easily see this Upton producing 15 homers, a .240 BA, .295 OBA, and only 65 RBI with Atlanta.
If you doubt this, just compare the stadium dimenstions with Tropicana Stadium on the left and Turner Field on the right of the slash:
Left Field: 315/335
Left-Center: 370/380
Center: 404/401
Right-Center: 370/390
Right: 322/330
In every measured area (except straightaway center, Turner Field is significantly larger. Even the center field measure is close (only three feet of difference). As a right-handed bat, BJ Upton feasted on that short 315-370 foot homer distance at Tropicana Field. Put him facing Turner Field’s 335-380 distance and you can easily see how his homers go down significantly.
For further proof how the short distances helped him, Upton hit 17 of his homers last season at home and only 11 on the road. Yes, in fairness, his power numbers were impacted by missing the first 13 games of the season last year.
But, to put a final touch on this analysis, BJ Upton had 15 AB’s at Oakland (with dimensions similar to Turner Field) and he hit zero homers there! In other stadiums in the AL with similar dimensions to Turner Field, Upton did this (AB,s/homers):
Oakland: 15/0
Kansas City: 11/0
LA Angels: 26/2
Toronto: 22/0
White Sox: 17/2
Baltimore: 37/1
Camden Yards has almost identical dimensions as Turner Field for a right handed pull hitter. Since Baltimore is in the AL East, Upton got to play a lot there. To have 37 at bats and hit just one homer is a huge warning flag for the Braves!
Left
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
5:36 pm
Harry Callahan, McCann was having a great year in 2011 until he hurt his oblique.
Amber Girl
November 19th, 2012
5:36 pm
@bvillebaron Just asking questions. and watching. Hopefully I can learn to filter out the dumb answers. Your info is respected my me and I will listen.
We Will Get Fooled Again
November 19th, 2012
5:36 pm
The Braves have plenty of options. Upton is intriguing player, but if you don’t get him you’ve still got Pagan and Victorino out there, both of whom I think are fantastic players (even though Victorino had a down year in 2012). I don’t see the Braves seriously going after Bourn or Hamilton, and I’m perfectly fine with that. Both are too risky to give huge dollars to.
The Braves will get someone solid for CF.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
5:38 pm
Wren needs to look at Ken Stallings’ post before buying BJ
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
5:39 pm
Tumbledown, I certainly wouldn’t want the Braves to go much over $15M per year, especially if it’s a 5-year deal, but I think it’s fairly reasonable.
No Flag Since Lemke
November 19th, 2012
5:40 pm
“We like him,” Wren said Monday…..
What does he like best – the 150 strikeouts or when he decides to dog it in the outfield?
Bobby's Beer Belly
November 19th, 2012
5:42 pm
Sign BJ Upton for centerfield and trade for Alex Gordon and make him our left fielder. Dayton Moore is listening to offers for just about everybody. Myers would be ideal but Gordon has had nearly 14 WAR the past two seasons so I would certainly be content with him.
Lineup:
Prado-3B-R
Gordon-LF-L
Heyward-RF-L
Freeman-1B-L
Uggla-2B-R
McCann-C-L
Upton-CF-R
Simmons-SS-R
Ken Stallings
November 19th, 2012
5:43 pm
In summary, I’d rather see the Braves peel off two million extra a year and resign Bourn, than spend $5 million a year for BJ Upton. Upton will give Atlanta only ten homers more, likely fewer RBI’s, as many or more strikeouts, vastly fewer walks, a lower BA, lower OBA, and a lesser glove in centerfield.
Brownie
November 19th, 2012
5:44 pm
I hope the noise about BJ Upton is a smoke screen, maybe make the Phillies overpay for this inconsistent prima dona.
OK, here is my view of Wren’s off-season: he has $25 million to spend, but I’d rather him go the trade route than free agency.You need willing trade partners to pull it off, but I think the Braves have a couple teams that would play ball.
CF: Denard Span – yeah there are better CF’ers out there, but I think you get real bang for the buck (~ 6m/yr for 2-3 more years). The Twins need pitching, and we could trade with them using Hanson/Delgado/Teheran – take your pick. Wren’s been hoarding his best your pitching talent for the right moment…..now is that moment.
LF: 2 options. first scenario – trade with Arizona to bring in Juston Upton (much better than BJ) and put him in RF. The Diamondbacks need a SS, and covet Simmons. Now we don’t want to part with him, but to get Upton I would. Janish will provide great defense, and not much less offensively batting in the 8th spot, and will be a bridge until Nick Ahmed is ready late next year or in 2014. Ahmed is supposedly as talented as Simmons.
Other LF option: trade Hanson/Delgado/Teheran (take your pick) plus Gattis plus Jonny Ventors to Miami for Stanton. The Marlins have to know that he will leave them as soon as he can, so they might as well bring in more than just a draft choice for him. They need players, and we can offer them 3 to 4 MLB ready players, and not measurably hurt our roster.
Finally, if Wren can pull off the Stanton deal…..he’ll still have ~ $20 million to spend and can go after Greinke.
Now is the time….
MFin04
November 19th, 2012
5:45 pm
I really dont understand the desire for BJ Upton. He’s overpriced and not very good a defender or hitter. Stay away from him. No place for a sub .300 OBP player on this team.
ncgary
November 19th, 2012
5:47 pm
stanton and spann stanton and pagan stanton and constanza for that matter. lets get stanton
ncgary
November 19th, 2012
5:48 pm
well i know ive been all over the spectrum of who i want to see play in atlanta,
but if we are putting all the chips in i agree with brian, lets do what it takes to get stanton. teahran salcedo and ahmed should be close to fair value
ncgary
November 19th, 2012
5:48 pm
throw in mejia too
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
5:49 pm
the allure of BJ is what it has always been, great upside if you can get him there and they all are egotistical enough to think they can do what others have failed at
Mikeyc588
November 19th, 2012
5:50 pm
Ken Stallings and Half Empty –
Simply measuring the walls does not accurate reflect how a stadium plays. Check this out:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
Even if look at the stats for HRs as a right-handed hitter, you’ll see Turner Field ranked above the Trop:
http://www.fangraphs.com/guts.aspx?type=pfh&teamid=0&season=2011
David O'Brien
November 19th, 2012
5:50 pm
I hope the noise about BJ Upton is a smoke screen, maybe make the Phillies overpay for this inconsistent prima dona. — Brownie
I can assure you, they don’t bring Bobby Cox into town and spend 6 hours with a free agent, wine and dine him at a steakhouse, as a “smokescreen” or to drive up his price elsewhere.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
5:51 pm
Half Empty, you seem to be assuming BJ Upton is not a solid player, as is, and that someone needs to drastically change him.
MFin04, what kind of overall value is he likely to provide? That’s ultimately what matters. And if you look, there’s plenty to like. Not a superstar but plenty to like.
Bob the Blogger
November 19th, 2012
5:52 pm
We’re not happy with $12 million per year for a low average, good OBP, and obscene strikeout rate from Uggla, so why would we pursue a player a bigger contract for the same output with a much lower OBP in Upton?
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
5:53 pm
no it is not just about park dimensions , but BJ is not really a power hitter as far as hitting most of them a long way, so in his case measurements might make a bit of a difference
Joey M
November 19th, 2012
5:53 pm
The only person here that would enjoy a BJ Upton signing is Terrence Moore. And it’s not because Upton is a superstar or anything.
Upton benefited from playing in a dome. We should either make a realistic try at Hamilton, make a smart trade for Willingham, or push for Pagan. Upton is NOT good for the Braves. Let the Phillies take his automatic 2 strikeout games.
Bobby's Beer Belly
November 19th, 2012
5:54 pm
You have to analyze past seasons and future projections for Upton, not just last season.
He will probably have a few less homers, but a higher OBP and perhaps a few more steals this upcoming year.
Ken Stallings
November 19th, 2012
5:55 pm
Assuming that the Braves cannot resign Bourn, I would rather see them go for a trade for Dernard Span or Dexter Fowler. The Braves need on base average, meaning people who get on base anyway possible and advance runners with contact. Strikeouts kills the Braves because at their stadium, homers don’t come in the huge numbers necessary to overcome failure to get on base and advance runners already on base.
Angel Pagan would be an excellent fit, but I agree it would take a lot to get him from San Francisco, who also know his value.
I find it interesting that of all the players being looked at, BJ Upton provides the lowest OBA. On base average is huge and for me rivals slugging percentage as the two top offensive stats to analyze to know who brings the highest value to the plate.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
5:55 pm
in case you haven’t noticed it Shaun, most here think he is not a solid player and that he does need some changes. I do indeed surscribe to that idea too at least in part.
Slowhiteguy
November 19th, 2012
5:59 pm
Did anyone hear FG on XM this am discuss Laird? I thought it was interesting that he said that Laird would serve as Mac’s back up this year, and then serve as a great mentor to Betancourt for 2014. A tell on their plans for Mac?
Heath
November 19th, 2012
5:59 pm
Span in 2012:
Vs Lefties:
.301/.374/.365/.739, 20K, 18BB, 156AB
Vs Righties:
.275/.328/.408/.736, 42K, 29BB, 360AB
Last 3 years:
Vs Lefties:
.280/.355/.350/.705, 61K, 51BB, 446AB
Vs Righties:
.267/.325/.375/.700, 111K, 83BB, 983AB
My opinion: this guy is PERFECT for the Braves in CF/LF and leading off. Wren… go get him.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
5:59 pm
reminds me of the quotes from other execs last season about the Braves valuing OBP less than most teams. I have always thought that too. They are aware of it and when they do get a player like Shef who provides it they talk it up, but in general it seems to me that they do not stress it when getting someone.
Like nolie has always said, they are more a tools organization than a stats one though they know both
Dum-Bass
November 19th, 2012
5:59 pm
Problem is the Braves will not do anything at the top to replace Fredi G. That means they will be the SOBs(same old Braves) no matter what players they end up with. It’s hard to be much above average when you have a manager like FG.
Shaun
November 19th, 2012
6:00 pm
Simply measuring the walls does not accurate reflect how a stadium plays.
Exactly right. We forget this sometimes. Weather, vision (for example, how the hitter’s background is set up), all sorts of things can play in to how parks affect the results of players’ performances. It’s not just about the distance of the outfield fence from home plate.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:01 pm
Span would be fine with me, especially since he did bounce back some last season after two kind of down seasons
Clark Howard
November 19th, 2012
6:02 pm
If BJ Upton signed here for 15 million a season, that, along with Uggla & McCann’s 2013 contract, would be approximately 45% of the team payroll tied up in just 3 players who hit a collective .235 !
Frank Wren must be MAD !
I hope they took Upton to the Golden Corral !
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:02 pm
Span in 2012:
Vs Lefties:
.301/.374/.365/.739, 20K, 18BB, 156AB
Vs Righties:
.275/.328/.408/.736, 42K, 29BB, 360AB
Last 3 years:
Vs Lefties:
.280/.355/.350/.705, 61K, 51BB, 446AB
Vs Righties:
.267/.325/.375/.700, 111K, 83BB, 983AB
My opinion: this guy is PERFECT for the Braves in CF/LF and leading off. Wren… go get him
Gone Viral
November 19th, 2012
6:04 pm
I generally trust and respect Atlanta’s front office enough to bite my tongue on transactions.
BJ Upton would be an exception. I will say the same thing about him that I did when we targeted AJ Burnett. This would be a monumental mistake.
Mikeyc588
November 19th, 2012
6:04 pm
Span would be a good leadoff hitter and I’d be very happy to get Fowler too (who has out OPS’d Upton over the past three years, I believe) but we have two OF holes to fill, or one OF hole and 3B. Who are you guys looking at for the other spot?
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:04 pm
I hope they took Upton to the Golden Corral !
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:05 pm
afan . Why don’t you Wikipedia Frank Wren…….. and see he had an unlimited payroll in Baltimore, and created one of the largest payroll in baseball for the time……. they finished under .500 for the year.
Please tell us about what you think ?
MFin04
November 19th, 2012
6:05 pm
“what kind of overall value is he likely to provide? That’s ultimately what matters. And if you look, there’s plenty to like. Not a superstar but plenty to like.”
Not much. Defensively he is negative in runs created. He does have speed on the base paths. But Bourn is better on the base paths, better in the outfield, and has a better batting average and better on base, and he can hit leadoff.
BJ Upton doesn’t have the value Bourn does, but his contract is going to be up there like he is Bourn. He isn’t.
Bourn’s Value the last 4 years:
$22
$19
$19
$29
($89)
Upton’s:
$11
$16
$18
$15
($60)
Ok so if Upton’s contract is around 67% of Bourn’s, maybe you go for it. If not you either try to overpay for Bourn or you pass on both and look at cheaper options.
cdpridg
November 19th, 2012
6:05 pm
Uh…No NO and more No……braves are a bunch of cheap 2nd rate idiots!!!
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 19th, 2012
6:06 pm
Sound it out Half…the syllables Ass-tral.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:07 pm
Ok….. someone here mention a free agent WANTING to come to Atlanta ??????
Slowhiteguy
November 19th, 2012
6:07 pm
Shaun, I guess I am in the minority around here…but I agree with you, I think. I feel Bourn is the better player (slightly) but that BJ Upton is the better fit for the Braves. I feel he is narrowing the gap between his tools and baseball skills.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:07 pm
Fowler strikes me as a Coors baby. In general there is a very large difference between his numbers home and away
Carroll Rogers
November 19th, 2012
6:09 pm
afan, think you can figure Prado will be playing third base….and who Braves get in center will dictate where they go with left field because if you don’t get a leadoff hitter or a right-handed bat or both for center, you’re going to need to get that in left field….Justin Upton? but not at the cost of Andrelton Simmons. Josh Willingham?
ncgary
November 19th, 2012
6:10 pm
stanton in left batting cleanup prado at 3b batting 2n or 3rd
and who cares in cf as long as they play good defense
Bobby's Beer Belly
November 19th, 2012
6:12 pm
Anybody else interested in trading for Alex Gordon?
Zing
November 19th, 2012
6:12 pm
.298 OBP… .298 OBP… .298 OBP…
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
6:12 pm
Fowler strikes me as a Coors baby. In general there is a very large difference between his numbers home and away
Aside from 2010, he’s OPSd at least .700 on the road. Average .703 road OPS if we consider his 2010 season. That’s Bourn’s career OPS. He’s a .720 road OPSer if we take out 2010. He may not be as good as he is at Coor’s, but he’s still gonna be a solid bat, in my opinion. Good defender as well.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:12 pm
Carroll Rogers . what is the bet that Shafer will start in center field ?
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:12 pm
I feel he is narrowing the gap between his tools and baseball skills. slowhiteguy
please tell us what leads you to believe that since his last four years have been pretty much the same, in fact his decline in the ability not to make outs indicates to me that the gap is actually widening
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
6:13 pm
ncgary, Stanton is not going anywhere. Doesn’t make sense for the Marlins to trade him right now.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
6:13 pm
Anybody else interested in trading for Alex Gordon?
My 2nd target, after Justin Upton.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:14 pm
Good defender as well. TOBF
not really he isn’t, and I don’t really want a 700 hitter as either of our pickups
Brownie
November 19th, 2012
6:14 pm
It’s taken until the last half hour for bloggers to finally latch onto Span as the best choice (Fowler wouldn’t be a bad choice either, although his D is spotty).
DOB, I didn’t say the whole Upton courtship WAS a smoke screen, I said I HOPE that it was. Because BJ isn’t the best value.
I would like to hear your opinion on Span, and any potential of working a trade with the Marlins for Stanton…would they trade with us, and what would it take?
Delbert D.
November 19th, 2012
6:16 pm
Let’s just stick with that other guy, George Costanza. Save about $72 million of that $75.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:16 pm
not true, there have been quite a few here advocating Span all along
ncbravesfan90
November 19th, 2012
6:16 pm
Id say there’s less than a 0% chance Schafer is the opening day CF.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:16 pm
Nick Swisher last 3 years:
Home:
.281/.369/.479/.848, 198K, 106BB, 38HR, 43 2B, 804AB
Road:
.267/.363/.478/.841, 207K, 124BB, 38HR, 56 2B, 825AB
Vs Left:
.296/.411/.443/.854, 95K, 98BB, 15HR, 32 2B, 524AB
Vs Right:
.263/.343/.495/.838, 310K, 132BB, 61HR, 67 2B, 1105AB
Friends… THAT is also what we need in our OF… very consisten and all the splits indicate he’ll perform well outside of Yankee stadium and regardless from side of the plate he will bat.
Based on Swisher’s numbers and Span’s numbers….
Forget Bourn
Forget Upton
Forget the draft pick
Trade pitching for Spanm sign Upton (cheaper than Upton and only a couple years older than BJ…and less years required).
CF Span
3B Prado
RF Heyward
LF Swisher
1B Freeman
2B Uggla
C McCann/Baird
SS Simmons
I think that is a very good team and would not cost as much as the other options recently suggested.
The numbers are what they are… and the numbers for those two guys are very good to me.
Quint in ATL
November 19th, 2012
6:17 pm
I hope the fact that almost nothing was said in this article about Pagan means that he is the one being targeted.
MFin04
November 19th, 2012
6:18 pm
Why would you want Justin Upton? Look at his home and road splits and tell me why? Also while you are at it, look at Kelly Johnson’s while he was in Arizona. And while we are looking at splits look at Dexter Fowlers.
I wouldn’t trade away the farm for a guy that is a product of his home field which isn’t anywhere close to Turner Field.
Upton is going to cost too much. A guy like Span, Victorino, Pagan makes more sense. Of if the Braves really want to break the bank bring back Bourn.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:19 pm
**Oops… trade for Span and Sign Swisher
:/
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:20 pm
too bad Bj ain’t looking for 4/45 or so
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
6:22 pm
“Peter Bourgious of the Angels………won’t beat out Mike Trout for centerfield……a young,experienced,fast centerfielder,who needs a chance…….Lorenzo Cain of the Royals…..same thing……..Hello !!!!!!”
You have to be kidding — second rate talent. Lorenzo Cain is garbage Bourjos cannot hit.
Why settle for AAAA talent when you can bid for real major league players.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:23 pm
BTW:
Sorry for the long posts to show the Span and Swisher splits… just thought they told a really good story about why to target them to fill our 2 OF spots.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
6:24 pm
.298 OBP… .298 OBP… .298 OBP…
So what — how about a 30/30 man with 60 extra base hits?
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:25 pm
the so what is because there is nothing that correlates higher with wins than team OBP
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:27 pm
got to think that there is a good chance that his OBP will drift higher again toward his mean I would think
Clark Howard
November 19th, 2012
6:27 pm
If BJ Upton signed here for 15 million a season, that, along with Uggla & McCann’s 2013 contract, would be approximately 45% of the team payroll tied up in just 3 players who hit a collective .235 !
Frank Wren must be MAD !
I hope they took Upton to the Golden Corral !
Bama Braves
November 19th, 2012
6:27 pm
You Guys Really Wont Nick Swisher?……Come On Man!
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:29 pm
Id say there’s less than a 0% chance Schafer is the opening day CF.
I do not agree… he has a decent spring training, and the Braves fail to sign another guy, and there you have it.
You don’t bring a guy in if you think he can contribute…. Of course we can watch Frank Wren over pay for anyone, as that has been the case in the past.
Ralph
November 19th, 2012
6:29 pm
The Phillies want Upton real bad so forget about him , Hamiliton and Bourn are out of braves price range, soon all the others out there will be gone, our only hope is that Wren will find something in the Dumpster, oh wait, he already did, Schafer will be our center fielder..
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:30 pm
Bama Braves -
Do the numbers I posted for Swisher’s last 3 years look bad? Is there something besides his actual performance on the field you do not like? I wasn’t high on Swisher until I looked at the numbers…changed my mind.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:30 pm
I’d take Swisher over Upton in a heartbeat especially at what Upton wants to ge paid
Swisher is a better hitter in almost every dimension, and is probably as good in the field considering the positions played
Heisenberg
November 19th, 2012
6:31 pm
I tossed it out a few weeks back and will do so again. An OF of Justin Upton in LF, BJ Upton in CF, and Heyward in RF will be the best defensive OF in all of baseball and would put some excitement in the offense as well. I say go for it. Sign BJ, trade Hanson & and either Delgado or Teheran to D-Backs for Justin and the big pieces are done. You could bat Heyward in the leadoff spot. Why not? Nats did it with Werth.
Amber Girl
November 19th, 2012
6:33 pm
Guys got to go. I still say Span in CF and COdy Ross in Lf. Bye see you tomorrow.
Nick
November 19th, 2012
6:34 pm
Braves just signed BJ Upton. 5 years/$85M. WOW..huge overpay.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:35 pm
Think about this for a moment… we had Chipper Jones a first ballot Hall of Fame guy here…
So what big star voiced their opinion nationally …….and wanted to come and play with him ?
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:35 pm
An OF of Justin Upton in LF, BJ Upton in CF, and Heyward in RF will be the best defensive OF in all of baseball Heisenberg
not with Upton in CF it would not be, wouldn’t be even close to last years OF which was by far the best in baseball
Heisenberg
November 19th, 2012
6:36 pm
Do the numbers I posted for Swisher’s last 3 years look bad?
It is not so much that they are bad numbers. It is they include half the games in Yankee Stadium with all those other bats around him in the lineup. I do not have a lot of confidence he can replicate that production away from that environment.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:37 pm
Any time the Braves start thinking about spending $10M+/year for a player… they really have to pay for a known commodity. Maybe Swisher is not as flashy as Upton… but at 31… 3-5 yr deal for this guy is much better than 5-7 years for Upton or Bourn. Swisher CAN HIT… and at ager 31, his powe numbers are not likely to dimish as quickly as the speed game of Bourn and Upton through the life of the contracts they want. Atleast we’ll know what we’re getting from Swisher…him and Span would fit nicely. The numbers prove it out.
ncbravesfan90
November 19th, 2012
6:38 pm
“I do not agree… he has a decent spring training, and the Braves fail to sign another guy, and there you have it.”
The Braves have $30 million to spend this offseason. They will not start the season with a payroll less than $95 million. So therefore they will spend money on two outfield spots, shore the bench up, and maybe one bullpen arm. Schafer will not start in CF opening day, has a shot to make the team as a 4th OF but that’s it.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
6:38 pm
With Upton, at the very least they are getting a younger version of Michael Bourn (though they arrive at their overall values in different ways).
Or he’s Uggla with speed and doesn’t walk half as much. Too much of a gamble, IMO. Better to shoot for Span or Fowler in CF. Willingham in left. If a Span/Willingham deal would cost too much – and likely would – then shoot for Willingham and pursue Fowler with the Rockies.
Don’t if any of that is doable, but Upton could be a big money pit.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 19th, 2012
6:38 pm
Please no Pagan. That guy will be way overpaid for a good playoff run in 2012. If anyone is a clubhouse cancer it’s that guy…at least that is what I read.
Disgusted
I agree 100% with your 6:30 post…well said.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:39 pm
It is not so much that they are bad numbers. It is they include half the games in Yankee Stadium with all those other bats around him in the lineup. I do not have a lot of confidence he can replicate that production away from that environment.
I posted his Away numbers… they were good. And you don’t think putting Swisher between Heyward and Freeman would be good for him? I actually think he’ll thrive.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
6:41 pm
that is because you know nothing about baseball with your dogmatic hatred of all stats, and you are like a little boy with his BOO bird. what 14 or 16 years old? if older you should seek help
You are the one who knows nothing about the game — I have forgotten more in a day than you could ever hope to know. Than I do not get in arguments with pieces of condencending garbage like you.
Have a rotten holiday week.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 19th, 2012
6:41 pm
Nick
Don’t write that shyt without a link…tool.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:43 pm
ncbravesfan90. what if the Braves don’t spend the money because they can’t get the deal done ?
jmart1951
November 19th, 2012
6:44 pm
One year from now the Braves have an opportunity to set themselves up for a fantastic future. To handcuff that future with a $15 mill per year player as well as Uggla’s last two years is poor fiscal management
Cunningham will be better than Upton and should be ready for 2014 season
Francisco is a better piece for an American League team and should be added in a deal for Olt this off season. A certain dollar amount payroll does not guarantee anything. The Braves are one year away from having young, controllable talent for years to come. Forget Upton and trade for Span and Olt. Extend Prado and Hayward and keep the remaining money for extensions next year for Freeman, Kimbrell and O’Flarety and Beachy.
ncbravesfan90
November 19th, 2012
6:45 pm
“what if the Braves don’t spend the money because they can’t get the deal done ?”
They will get deals done. There’s just no way that you will see a mid market team start a season with a payroll of $30 million less than what they have to spend.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
6:45 pm
Olt’s not available, per reports.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:45 pm
Woe is us, we losr Pie to the Pirates
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:46 pm
jmart1951… so I kind of agree……. especially with the big failed contracts the braves have dealt out.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
6:46 pm
Thanks Brave Pack — No one should go that far at personal attacks.
As for Pagan I can sort ot take it ot leave it but I doubt Wren is looking at him
If we wind up with Span or Fowler either way either player should help. As for the home splits — some guys just might hit better at home.
Their game is speed and defense and getting on base so the ball park should not have that much as effect.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:46 pm
ncbravesfan90. so are you wanting another Uggla type deal to make the fans happy ?
Felix
November 19th, 2012
6:47 pm
Fillies: quit messing around and take upton quick! I think BJ and Charlie will be a great match for each other. Do us a good deed and save Wren from himself.
Charlie: Still losing sleep over your decision to pitch to Chipper?
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
6:49 pm
I think Pagan stays with the Giants. The Phils have the money to trump an offer by the Braves to Upton – if they desire.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:49 pm
Trading for Span and signing Swisher has another advantage… good fits for the OF and the lineup… and leaving $ to extend Prado and/or Heyward.
P Rose
November 19th, 2012
6:50 pm
The money would be better spent locking up Medlen, Kimbrell and Heyward long-term while they still can.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 19th, 2012
6:51 pm
Disgusted and I don’t always agree on things but he can have an intelligent argument with me and knows what he is talking about. You, on the other hand, just talk out of your ass and have no clue.
T-Dawg
November 19th, 2012
6:51 pm
This is the dumbest deal idea Fran Wren has ever conceived. I say this because at least Kawakami, Uggla, Lowe,McClouth ALL LOOKED like they would perform better than they have. B J Upton has shown you who he is and he is NOT what this team needs. We need more consistent hitters.
This pursuit should show fans management is going backwards. I will be extremely disappointed if this is our “big deal”. I’m already disappointed knowing we are actively pursuing him.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
6:52 pm
Swisher costs the Braves a draft pick, as I understand it.
Chief Knock-A-Homa
November 19th, 2012
6:52 pm
Every report I’ve seen from DOB and everywhere else keeps saying that Bourn is likely to command $15 million over 5 years… The same that Upton is looking at…
Why would we not just keep Bourn, a guy who has been great for us…
Ralph
November 19th, 2012
6:53 pm
Simons could bat leadoff if necessary, better than him hitting 8th!
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:53 pm
Why would we not just keep Bourn, a guy who has been great for us…
he faded at the end of the season, and Scott Boras is going to get him OVER PAID.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
6:54 pm
Jeff R
Draft pick be-darned. I’ll still take Swisher/Span over Upton/?? or Bourn/?? Better offense/defense and cheaper. Draft picks don’t always pan out and Swisher will produce.
Ralph
November 19th, 2012
6:55 pm
If Simmons bat’s leadoff, we have two good candidates for the 8 hole, Uggla and McCann.
Astral
November 19th, 2012
6:55 pm
DOB said in one of his latest blogs that Bourn is looking for more than 5/75.
old man
November 19th, 2012
6:55 pm
Wow, lots of crazy input here.
Here’s one,”Resign Michael Bourn and sign Josh Hamilton!” I think that will cost about 45 million a year for 5 years, maybe 6. Getting toward 270 million dollars there, pal. Personally, I would like to drive a Ferrari. Let me think, I seem to recall a problem with that. What’s the problem . . . ? Hmmm. Oh, yeah, IT WOULD BE STUPID FOR ME TO BUY A FERRARI. I CAN’T AFFORD IT.
Lots of “just resign Bourn.” Well, Bourn is getting older, losing speed, and tailed off BADLY in 2012, and he will be at least 33% more expensive than BJ Upton. Upton has upside, Bourn does not.
“I prefer Span and Willingham.” I agree. But one team is not going to trade two thirds of their outfield, and these are both trade targets, and that deal would decimate our inventory of upper level prospects for several years to come.
I’m just on page one, so if I see any more unsophisticated ravings, I will update with those too.
I’m nervous about BJ Upton too, but a lot of front office and sports journalism people have him rated very, very high. Some of these comments though, sheesh!
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
6:56 pm
Bourn will command more than Upton, financially. He’s thirty and a speedster. His legs will be a question as he ages.
Span or Fowler would cost less and the Braves won’t have to tie up budget for either for five years.
Half Empty
November 19th, 2012
6:57 pm
yes 90mil+ would not surprise me too much on Bourn
Peter
November 19th, 2012
6:58 pm
Simons could bat lead off if necessary, better than him hitting 8th!
That may be the future of the Braves line up with Prado batting 2nd……
My thoughts are with McCann out of action for so long……. we may be out of the picture 2 months into the season…… heck we stunk with chipper out.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
6:58 pm
Draft pick be-darned. I’ll still take Swisher/Span over Upton/?? or Bourn/?? Better offense/defense and cheaper. Draft picks don’t always pan out and Swisher will produce.
I don’t want Upton, either, and I’m not fussed if the Braves had to surrender a draft choice for the right OFer.
Wouldn’t mind Swisher but for how long a contract? I’ve read Swisher’s asking price is high.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 19th, 2012
6:59 pm
I can get on board with Span or Fowler as both are fairly young and
good players.
Trader Jack
November 19th, 2012
7:00 pm
Nick Swisher would be a disaster playing half his games at Turner Field and surrounded by mediocre hitters.
He thrived in Yankee Stadium surrounded by a stellar lineup, not the Kmart patchwork Braves.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
7:01 pm
T-Dawg, per DOB’s blog post, Wren is looking at multiple options. Wouldn’t assume that Upton is a lock for Atlanta.
kevin chop
November 19th, 2012
7:02 pm
Saying sheesh def does make you an old man. When you get a player like josh hamilton there is nothing wrong bringing a cheap option in like constanza to go with hamilton and heyward.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
7:04 pm
Hamilton is a lot of baggage and the Braves can’t afford him, anyway. He’s not going to be a Brave unless his ask comes down dramatically.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:04 pm
More like …….constanza to go with Shafer and Heyward.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
7:05 pm
He thrived in Yankee Stadium surrounded by a stellar lineup, not the Kmart patchwork Braves
If Swisher signed, he’d bat between Heyward and Freeman… Those are Kmart patchwork Braves? No, sir.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
7:05 pm
I can get on board with Span or Fowler as both are fairly young and
good players.
Brave Pack — Fowler does have a higher OBP — both would be cheaper and there is more room to get a masher for LF.
BJ for the cost is one that I am on the fence with anyway — have posted the pros as I see it and also understand the cons.
I am trusting Wren on this judgement.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:06 pm
Hamilton is a lot of baggage. perfectly said… heck they traded Justice for that reason……..even after he won the world series for the Braves !
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:06 pm
I am trusting Wren on this judgement.
God luck with that !!!!!!!!
JNick
November 19th, 2012
7:09 pm
Seriously, stop listing Dexter Fowler as an option for CF….worst defensive CF in baseball, and his home/road splits are awful….talk about a product of Coors Field. Just STOP THE MADNESS….
Ralph
November 19th, 2012
7:09 pm
If they want a .262 hitter with no power then Dexter Fowler is the man, thats what he hits away from Coors Field where a well hit pop up becomes a HR.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
7:09 pm
I actually like FW Peter — his judgement is better than mine and anyone else on this blog.
BTW — the trading of Justice was a mistake fair and square. That is well before Mr. Wren.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:10 pm
Outfielder Juan Pierre has agreed to terms on a deal with the Miami Marlins pending a physical, a source confirmed to ESPN.
The Sun Sentinel reports the deal is for one year and worth $1.6 million.
Pierre, 35, was a member of the Marlins from 2003-05. He spent last season with the Phillies, hitting .307 and stealing 37 bases.
This guy could have played for us……. and cheaply !!!!!
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:11 pm
Disgusted……. why do you have any hopes for Wren ?
He ruined Baltimore for a long time…and has done zero here ?
Ken Stallings
November 19th, 2012
7:11 pm
Mikey,
You brought some good numbers to the discussion. But, the Braves have some good power hitters on their roster. Chipper, Jason, Uggla, and Freeman are good power hitters. Also, in 2011, McCann hit well.
Unless you have atmoshpherics at work, dimensions are the best way to compare home run numbers. One factor putting Tropicana Field near the bottom is frankly the almost total lack of power hitters on their roster.
If we took hitters like Chipper Jones, Brian McCann, Freddie Freeman, Dan Uggla, and Jason Heyward and had them hit at Tropicana, I think you’d see how those dimensions factor into the equation.
Likewise, BJ Upton led the Rays in homers and RBI’s. As a team, the Rays ranked near dead last in slugging and batting average and only 18th in runs scored. Tampa Bay was a pitching team with a slew of outstanding arms, ranking first in nearly every category: batting average against, walks plus hits per innings pitched, and ERA.
Frankly, I’d rather have Ben Zobrist than BJ Upton and I think the Rays would also! Zobrist hit only eight fewer homers than Upton (to finish second on the roster last year) but his on base average was a vastly better .377 to Upton’s woeful .298. Zobrist walked 97 tmes to Upton’s 47, and Zobrist struck out only 103 to Upton’s 169.
Like I wrote, the Braves need to be more concerned about getting guys on base and advancing runners already on base. We saw it all too frequently with Dan Uggla, critical situations and the pitchers opposing us got tough and got the strikeout to kill the inning. BJ Upton is another place where a quality pitcher can go to get an unproductive out.
Unless your field is tailored for power (and Turner Field is certainly not) you sacrifice power for OBA and high walks/K ratio. BJ Upton is a very poor fit for those critical equations.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:14 pm
Ken Stallings. Great points…… I still think Wren ruined all with the trades of Blanco and Infante..both guys produced here, and were in the price range that made sense.
Plus the steroid era has ended……speed is what is going to win now, with some power.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
7:15 pm
Like I wrote, the Braves need to be more concerned about getting guys on base and advancing runners already on base. We saw it all too frequently with Dan Uggla, critical situations and the pitchers opposing us got tough and got the strikeout to kill the inning. BJ Upton is another place where a quality pitcher can go to get an unproductive out.
This seems on-target to me.
BravesFan79
November 19th, 2012
7:15 pm
Just say NO to BJ overrated Upton!
J Spencer
November 19th, 2012
7:16 pm
Denard Span in center and Josh Willingham, save a ton of money and have a ton of flexibility…hello is anybody listening? What do you think?
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
7:17 pm
Peter, what exactly did Wren do that “ruined Baltimore for a long time”? I’m aware that they had the biggest payroll in baseball at the time and performed poorly, but what specific things did Wren do that were bad decisions?
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:18 pm
We need to learn to play small ball…. the Giants won it all with great pitching, defense and small ball…….contact hitting, and speed to press the fielder’s into making small mistakes that created extra bases.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:20 pm
Rick C… he made a bunch of poor decisions that cost the Baltimore team from getting young talent and improve….. they were the highest payroll in baseball at the time and finished under .500…… he had a ton of money tied into old guys.
Expand Instant Replay
November 19th, 2012
7:20 pm
“I’m really blown away by the love other cities are showing me right now. Can’t wait to see how this pans out.” And thats what Upton says after visiting Atlanta for six ?! Maybe im just taking that comment the wrong way….
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
7:20 pm
As I posted on Sunday, combined, Uggla and Upton struck out 337 times (168 and 169, respectively). Upton walked half as much as Uggla (45 to 94).
In 2012, the Braves as a team had 1,289 strikeouts. Combined, Uggla and Upton would have accounted for 26% of the team’s strikeouts – 1 out of every 4 by just two hitters.
ncbravesfan90
November 19th, 2012
7:21 pm
If everyone is valuing OBP so high, why don’t more people on here praise Dan Uggla? I mean his OBP was .348 this year. Just sayin….
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
7:21 pm
I’d be much happier NOT to add another Dan Uggla-type player to this already high strikeout lineup.
Give me Dexter or Span.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
7:22 pm
“I’m really blown away by the love other cities are showing me right now. Can’t wait to see how this pans out.” And thats what Upton says after visiting Atlanta for six ?! Maybe im just taking that comment the wrong way….
Upton and his agent simply don’t want to tip their hands.
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
7:22 pm
Peter, I asked for specifics. If you want to blame Wren for their failures, you must have at least one specific free agent signing, trade, or something that ruined them, no?
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
7:23 pm
ncbravesfan90……because leadoff hitters should get on base……
Nobody is impressed with Uggla’s OBP. We didn’t bring him in to be a table setter.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
7:24 pm
Too many droughts with Uggla. He’s an inconsistent masher.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:24 pm
Frank Wren is gun shy……… someone name all his trades and signings…….. Tell us about the good ones, and the bad ones ?
Heath
November 19th, 2012
7:24 pm
Denard Span in center and Josh Willingham, save a ton of money and have a ton of flexibility…hello is anybody listening? What do you think?
The Twins will not trade BOTH guys… Span is more easily replaced for them…. Trade for Span, sign Swisher.
ncbravesfan90
November 19th, 2012
7:25 pm
“…because leadoff hitters should get on base……
Nobody is impressed with Uggla’s OBP. We didn’t bring him in to be a table setter.”
Exactly. And we are not bringing Upton in here to be a leadoff hitter or a table setter, so therefore by your theory we shouldn’t even look at Upton’s OBP.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:26 pm
Rick C. he lasted ONE YEAR in Baltimore……. what else do you want to Know ? He crippled the club for years.
Tell me his shining achievements here in Atlanta in 5 years please !
Jimiz
November 19th, 2012
7:27 pm
I like Bourn he is the best fit. We need to sign him because he is our lead-off guy and centerfielder. Then we make a trade for Justin Upton to play left done deal.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:28 pm
For Rick C…….. from Wikipedia
Baltimore Orioles
When Pat Gillick resigned as GM of the Orioles at the close of the 1998 season, Wren was recruited as his replacement. But the 1999 Orioles were a major disappointment. The club finished six games under .500 despite one of the highest payrolls in the game and the signing of free agent slugger Albert Belle to the most lucrative contract in baseball at the time. During the season, Wren and the team were criticized publicly by Baltimore owner Peter Angelos, and after just one season, the owner replaced Wren with veteran executive Syd Thrift.
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
7:29 pm
So you actually don’t have any facts or evidence to support your argument? Just because he got fired is enough evidence for you that he forever ruined the team. Got it.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
7:29 pm
My “theory”? I am not one of the ones wanting BJ Upton.
And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who sees the value of having a leadoff hitter with a high OBP
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:30 pm
Jimiz. Gosh guys.. when are you going to understand he has an agent that the braves can’t work with ?
ncbravesfan90
November 19th, 2012
7:33 pm
“And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who sees the value of having a leadoff hitter with a high OBP”
I agree, a leadoff hitter needs to have a high OBP. Upton would not come here to be the leadoff hitter so he would not need to have a high OBP. It can’t be both ways, we can’t knock Upton for his low OBP and not praise Uggla for his high OBP. But the reality is that Uggla had the same OBP as our leadoff hitter, Bourn.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:33 pm
Rick C . Albert Belle for starters Rick C.
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
7:34 pm
lol, so now you cite wikipedia? What are you in high school? Even that excerpt doesn’t give any specific examples. I guess you can argue that they overpaid for Belle, but he hit 297/400/541 with 37 HR and 117 RBI that year. He was forced to retire after 2000, and the Orioles were largely reimbursed for the rest of the contract due to the insurance policy. So I’m not sure how that ruined them by any means.
ccrider
November 19th, 2012
7:34 pm
It is starting to look more possible that the Braves could be the team to acquire both Upton brothers.
Today, The Indians said that Asdrubal Cabrera is available for trade. He has been an All Star SS in the last few years. A trade of Nick Ahmed and a Tommy Hanson or a Sean Gilmartin might do the trick. Then, the Braves could trade Cabrera, Teheran and another lower Minor leaguer for Justin Upton.
I personally, Would rather trade for Cabrera, ship him to the Rangers for Mike Olt, Sign Josh Hamilton and have an OF of Hamilton in RF, Heyward in CF and Prado in LF. Sign Reed Johnson and Scott Hariston in case of injury and to give the Hamilton and Heyward a occaisonal rest against LHed pitching.
SS-Simmons
CF Heyward
LF Prado
RF Hamilton
1B Freeman
3B Olt or 2B Uggla( whoever is hot)
C McCann or Laird
Uggla/Olt (whoever isn’t hot)
If, the price for Hamilton is beyond reason, I would return to the Twins and try to trade for Span or Revere
PuddyCat
November 19th, 2012
7:36 pm
Peter Angelos was the problem and Wren was a victim of his meddling. Peter you are extremely misinformed. I lived there and fans hated Angelos. Angelos had the money to do a character assassination on Wren. In the end “insider baseball” knew the real goings on. Wren is one of the most respected GM’s in baseball. Most fans are not as informed with correct info as they think they are.
Rick C
November 19th, 2012
7:36 pm
Peter, you obviously have not done any of your own research. Just talking out of your ass and thinking you know everything after reading one paragraph on wikipedia.
T-Dawg
November 19th, 2012
7:36 pm
.211 with RISP. That’s all that needs to be said. This is the last Free Agent we need to be pursuing.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:39 pm
I guess wjat is good for the goose is not for the gander DO ?
Philley Phanatic
November 19th, 2012
7:39 pm
Hey, Atlanta.
We’re about to get BJ Upton, Josh Hamilton & possibly Michael Bourn !
I hope you hayseeds are happy with Jordan Schafer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
7:39 pm
That’s exactly why I don’t want Upton. It would be a huge mistake to add yet ANOTHER high strikeout hitter to this lineup. We saw the lack of contact rear it’s ugly head way too much last season. I really hope Wren knows better than this, but apparently he does not.
And please don’t bring up Uggla. I’m just waiting on that horrible contract to be up so we can finally forget about that epic mistake.
I work at a bar near Buckhead. He comes in quite frequently and very often stays past 2:30-3 am getting HAMMERED. I’ve worked on at least 5 or 6 nights where he’s been there before a day game. And ALWAYS takes on 0-for the next day.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
7:41 pm
Philley Phanatic is a lame Braves “fan” who is trying to stir up sht with ppl in here bc his life is so empty this is what he does for fun.
It’s PHILLY you nuttsack.
Braves' Nation
November 19th, 2012
7:43 pm
“Wren is one of the most respected GM’s in baseball” – PuddyCat
Too bad his track record doesn’t support your statement. Teixeira for Kotchman. Soriano for Chavez. Derek Lowe. Dan Uggla. Kinchen Kawakami.
How much more money is he going to squander?
If Atlanta had a critical fan base and sports media Frank Wren would have been fired a long time ago.
Matt Diaz
November 19th, 2012
7:45 pm
Where do I fit into Frank’s master plan?
BFChris28
November 19th, 2012
7:47 pm
Matt Diaz could be the back up to the back up catcher
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:48 pm
Braves’ Nation . You seem to forget the corporate environment the braves are under……. It is like playing for the Post office..no one no matter how poorly they do get’s fired.
Bobby Cox was the greatest manager ever……. gee he even went 1-5 in the World Series and the last time got swept 4-0.
PuddyCat
November 19th, 2012
7:48 pm
Wren is respected highly within the industry. Busboys, bartenders, fry boys, cashiers and most entry level workers love to take shots at him. I guess it makes fans feel if they try and tear him down it somehow raises them above him. Sad
Peter
November 19th, 2012
7:50 pm
PuddyCat … ok tell us how he has worked miracles for the braves….especially all those clever deals within the baseball community ?
PuddyCat
November 19th, 2012
7:51 pm
Man oh man the trolls are out tonight. Carroll get your banning finger ready
PuddyCat
November 19th, 2012
7:52 pm
Peter go to bed and quit being obnoxious
chipl1960
November 19th, 2012
7:55 pm
darkcow please take out the trash and finish your homework. ask your Mom for some warm milk and cookies.
Ken Stallings
November 19th, 2012
7:55 pm
Dan Uggla had an excellent eye and earned a lot of walks. That made him more valuable than BJ Upton would be. I think it is an excellent point to compare Upton to Uggla. Uggla’s prime problem is that he struck out too much. He struck out more last year than Upton did!
Upton just walked a lot less.
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November 19th, 2012
7:55 pm
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Rick C
November 19th, 2012
7:56 pm
lol now Peter wants specifics? Oh the irony.
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
7:57 pm
We’re about to get BJ Upton, Josh Hamilton & possibly Michael Bourn !
I hope your Phils get all three. Nothing like being top-heavy with payroll – along with all the other oldsters and walking-wounded on your team.
Busch Leaguer
November 19th, 2012
7:57 pm
Wren is putting on a good front for Liberty Media , drive up the price so your rivals will have to pay more to sign free agents. Braves already have their CF for 2013 ,Jordan Schaefer .Just the type of player Liberty likes,one that plays for less than 1M a year.Braves should take a flyer on an old nemesis to play CF . Shane Victorino used to be a thorn in the Braves side when he was in Philly .Could be a good short term fix, while the Braves wait for some of their younger talent to develop.
dbbraves
November 19th, 2012
7:57 pm
Thank you darkcow, i needed a laugh. That was hilarious. I dont think ive seen nuttsack inserted into a sentence so eloquently before.
Educated Idiot
November 19th, 2012
7:57 pm
I still like the option of Denard Span. It allows us to move some of our excess pitching pieces and keeps our payroll free to splurge on a power bat for LF (It’s easier to find a power hitter for a corner position than Center). Upton brings a low OBP and some attitude problems.
Why not trade one or two of our disappointing prospects (Hanson, Delgado, Tehran) and get someone who fits what we need more? We need a leadoff hitter and won’t find a good one in LF. Martin Prado is not a leadoff hitter.
We keep looking for a big right handed bat and it never pans out (Uggla). Time to start looking at our real needs.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
7:58 pm
We found the culprit! Go do something productive, Chip. You sorry sack of poop
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
7:59 pm
My pleasure
Jeff R
November 19th, 2012
7:59 pm
My choice for center would be Span, as well.
Ken Stallings
November 19th, 2012
7:59 pm
So Peter, that year the Yanks swept the Braves in the World Series, were the other teams besides the Yankees who did not get swept better than the Braves?
To get swept in the World Series, you have to be in the World Series, a place where all but two teams failed to reach.
njbraves
November 19th, 2012
8:00 pm
Complain, complain, complain. I knew this offseason was going to be unbearable around here. No matter who the Braves get, there will be outrage. No one is ever good enough, they’re always too expensive, they’re always the wrong guy. It’s amazing to me how much smarter some of you guys think you are than people who actually so this for a living. Can we at least see how this all shakes out before declaring it a disaster?
Liberty Media
November 19th, 2012
8:04 pm
Frank Wren,
Great PR move by taking BJ Upton out for a steak dinner. Keep the fans interested, even though we won’t be signing Upton or any other big name.
As long as we win 85-90 games, stay in the hunt at least til Labor Day, we should make a healthy profit and you’ll get your bonus at the end of each season.
You’ve been a loyal soldier, Frank.
By the way, increase hot dog prices another 50 cents next season. I’ve got a son starting college at Harvard next fall.
Chop Chop
November 19th, 2012
8:09 pm
The Braves haven’t sniffed the World Series in over a decade. No reason to think they’re gonna do so.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
8:10 pm
Peter — You know that Wren was GM in Baltimore for only one yr and as for the sign of Albert Belle, Belle was a great hitter till an arthritic hip injury cut his career short.
He did have a good yr his first yr over there and it was in his second yr in Baltimore he had the hip trouble (if my memory serves me right). See Baseball Reference.
AdirondackDave
November 19th, 2012
8:20 pm
Upton is ok but unless Frank catches lightning in a bottle, he’s not the impact player the Braves need. I hope the same serious effort is made for Hamilton up to 20m/5. We can trade for a .340 obs somebody to lead off.
Chipper Jones
November 19th, 2012
8:21 pm
Now that I’m retired and off the payroll, I have one final thing to say to the fans of Braves’ Nation, wherever you might be:
Dan Uggla is the poorest excuse of a major leaguer that I’ve ever seen ! To think he made as much money as I did makes me wanna puke !
Man up, Dan !
Spend more time in the batting cage and less time on the weight bench !
Earn the fans’ respect !
Thief !
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
8:23 pm
Why would you want Justin Upton?
.284/.388/.512/.900 line vs. lefties. And despite the effect of Chase Field, I’m sure that Justin will be able to play at a high level at the Ted. He’s put up good road numbers before.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
8:24 pm
‘Bazz checking in for the first time as a collegiate. Ugh.
jeffrey d
November 19th, 2012
8:24 pm
Those exclamation points are so powerful the words need to take a step away!
Mark
November 19th, 2012
8:28 pm
Please don’t sign Upton. I’m sure, as he admitted, he is blown away by all the love. He probably can’t believe he is gonna get paid so much money for what he has done.
The last thing we need is another 5 year contract with a guy that is gonna strike out 165 to 180 times! Unbelievable!
JNick
November 19th, 2012
8:30 pm
TOBF, awesome stats against lefties, too bad lefthanders make up about 10% of staffs/rotations. Not gonna pay a guy $10mil a year to hit lefties – hell, we can get Matt Diaz or Johnson to do that for ~ $1-2 mil a year.
ccrider
November 19th, 2012
8:36 pm
My personal choice for the Braves moves would be to acquire Asdrubal Cabrera without having to include Nick Ahmed( put Joel Peraza in the trade instead)and ship him to Texas for Mike Olt. Then, trade for either Span or Revere. See if any team would take Uggla in a trade for the Braves paying half his salary.
Lineup: Span/Revere $6.5 for Span, Revere$.5
Ahmed $ .5
Heyward $3.5
Olt $ .5
Freeman $.5
Prado $9 for 5 years
McCann $12
Simmons $.5
Total Starting Lineup $33 million with Span, $27 Million with Revere
Every position player is 28 years old and under with All Star ability!
Use the extra payroll to extend players contracts and or sign a high end starting pitcher either this year(Greinke) or when David Price becomes to expensive for the Rays
the truth...
November 19th, 2012
8:37 pm
@Shaun ………..
What the H$$$ are you talking about? We’re not looking at getting an All Star in Upton…..?
You want to pay $15 million a year for 5 years for a non-all star player???????
Sorry but I don’t get it…..
Also have to disagree about Francouer being the “worst player in baseball” or what ever you called him….
K Conway
November 19th, 2012
8:38 pm
We don’t need another 240 average hitter! Uggla is killing the lineup and another 240 hitter is just plain stupid!!
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
8:43 pm
TOBF, awesome stats against lefties, too bad lefthanders make up about 10% of staffs/rotations.
Closer to 38%, hence the Braves struggled mightily against LHP last season. Upton has an .808 OPS vs RHP, .453 SLG. If you can find me a RH batter who OPS’s over .800 against both sides, slugs over .450 against both (.500 against LHP), and hasn’t yet reached or has just reached their prime, do let me know.
jeffrey d
November 19th, 2012
8:45 pm
Closer to 38%
So he’ll only suck 62% of the time.
NO MORE FREDI
November 19th, 2012
8:46 pm
I already hear the boo birds on this signing. Bring him here and this should be the player that sends Frank out of Atlanta. How many bad deals can he do before the Braves have enough? If this were any other real job he would have been canned after the Kawakami deal.
ray k
November 19th, 2012
8:48 pm
Good god. Upton? Yes, let’s sign another low batting order k machine who plays good defense like Alex Gonzalez and put him in center.
Nothin ever changes around here.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
8:49 pm
The lemmings have all lined up with Frank Wren…and the players he traded are the real winners !
Congratulations to Omar Infante, and to Gregor Blanco… players I prefer………..but hey why root for winners ?
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
8:50 pm
So he’ll only suck 62% of the time.
Nope! He can actually handle RHP. Unlike Diaz, he can slug in the 400s against RHP
jeffrey d
November 19th, 2012
8:53 pm
If this were any other real job he would have been canned after the Kawakami deal
1) Why would a systems analysist hire Kenshin Kawakami?
2) Can you name 1 GM who hasn’t made a bad deal? And what about Jurrjens for Renteria? Vazquez for Flowers? Vizcaino for Vazquez? Bourn for Schafer? And, pan the Uggla deal if you want, but he OPS’ed .877, .813, and .874 in the 3 years before he came to Atlanta. Quit using hindsight to judge this deal (I still think Uggla will prove himself throughout his contract)
I already hear the boo birds on this signing
You mean you? You complain and b*tch about everything. You’d complain about free money. You’d complain about a 3 day weekend. You’d complain if someone gave you a dozen cupcakes that burned fat and built muscle.
wreckmaniac
November 19th, 2012
8:54 pm
$ 15 mil a year for a .246 hitter ? That means you should get $1 mil a year for just showing up. This is insanity. I can hit .246 and so can most men in my neighborhood.
wreckmaniac
November 19th, 2012
8:55 pm
If our so-called tightfisted owners balk at this deal, I don’t blame them.
Mark
November 19th, 2012
8:56 pm
Relax Braves Fans
As disturbing as it is that Wren would consider signing Upton, some idiot GM will out bid him and then they’ll be stuck long term with .240 and 175 Ks. Kinda like our Uggla although .240 is a little high and 175 Ks a little low for Uggs!
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 19th, 2012
8:58 pm
Omar Infante, career OPS+ 91. Gregor Blanco, career OPS+ 88.
jeffrey d
November 19th, 2012
8:59 pm
I can hit .246 and so can most men in my neighborhood.
No you can’t!!
If our so-called tightfisted owners balk at this deal, I don’t blame them.
The owners have no say in these matters. They just sign the check.
I know being logical hasn’t always been our strong suit, but this is what we’re coming to??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG_xNbVMmIA
Geechy Dan
November 19th, 2012
9:00 pm
Braves need a definitive right-handed power presence.Hamilton fits the bill.Only then go after a CF.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:01 pm
Kaepernick looking REALLY good tonight!!! Go Niners!!!
JNick
November 19th, 2012
9:03 pm
And what incentive do the D-backs have to trade him? And why would the Braves give up a package that most likely starts with Simmons, Teheran/Delgado (or both) and probably one of Spruill/Gilmartin, along with another top 10 prospect, to get J.Upton?
JNick
November 19th, 2012
9:04 pm
Last I checked, Dan, Hamilton is a LH hitter….
Drew
November 19th, 2012
9:04 pm
Forget the stats. Will Upton help our team get hot in the postseason? That’s what’s it’s all about.
It doesn’t matter if someone strikes out 2% more or get on based 10 times less during the regular season.
Geechy Dan
November 19th, 2012
9:05 pm
No more left-handed hitters,Bourn included. Should NEVER have let FURCAL go.So what if he likes the sauce.Assign him a 24-hr chauffer
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
9:06 pm
Those Niners have what it takes to get in the SB, hey, a special teams mistake in last yrs NFC championship game cost em vs the Giants.
Truth be told the Niners were a better team than the NYG, but got nicked in a competitive championship game.
Last yrs SB should have been Baltimore vs SF, but you know how shoulda woulda coulda is.
Baitimore missed out on a chip shot FG miss.
NYG and NE were very good, but fate was on their side getting to the SB.
old man
November 19th, 2012
9:07 pm
Joey M: “The only person here that would enjoy a BJ Upton signing is Terrence Moore. And it’s not because Upton is a superstar or anything.”
What exactly does this mean??
JNick
November 19th, 2012
9:08 pm
Upton also led the NL in errors for an OF in 2008, 2009 and 2011, and he’s 7th in total errors among all active OFs – after 5 seasons? Wow…yeah, let’s give up our awesome SS to hurry and get this guy…
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:08 pm
Forget the stats?
More often than not, the teams that make the playoffs are the ones that rank near the top in run differential… so trying to put together a team with this premise in mind is important. Evaluating and projecting stats isn’t nonsense.
MiaBchBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
9:09 pm
By the way, after the Toronto Debacle, the Marlins made quite a splash by signing their own CF – Juan Pierre.
Their management team makes Frank Wren, Terry McGuirk, and Liberty Media look like the George Steinbrenner Yankees, circa 1990’s.
BFChris28
November 19th, 2012
9:09 pm
I’d be OK with trading Ahmed, Teheran or Delgado, Spruill or Gilmartin and one or two others for Upton. I think D-Backs would do that deal. Ahmed is gaining steam in the AFL and could be a substitute for D-Backs knowing they aren’t getting Simmons.
Geechy Dan
November 19th, 2012
9:09 pm
my bad,jnick…my point is hire biggest,baddest RH hitter braves bucks can buy…..dangle uggla as trade bait….2 subpar years is enough,don’t chance 1 more.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
9:11 pm
Let’s see Wren pull off some serious trades this winter. Forget these free agents. They are clearly not his thing. His trades, for the most part, have turned out pretty well. Will the HUGE exception of Uggla, of course.
1. Fowler
2. Prado
3. Heyward
4. J Upton
5. Freeman
6. Ughla
7. Simmons
8. Laird
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
9:13 pm
One way or another , if this goes down it will be a controversial sign.
If it does happen, I pray for the sake of BJ and the FO that he at least gets off to a good start.
I am going to be behind it one way or the other. Wish the best for the player regardless where he winds up.
Not every power hitter can be a Chipper and have a .400 OBP and hit with the big power. We might never see a batting eye like that here again — Chipper was to the Braves what Herschel was to UGA football history.
Get em next yr Uggla and putthe haters in their place. U can do it.
JNick
November 19th, 2012
9:14 pm
Darkcow, please, no Fowler…he’s probably the worst defensive CF in all of baseball, and check out his home/road splits…he’s terrible away from Coors.
BFChris28, why would you gut our farm system for 1 guy?
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:14 pm
Disgusted:
Being a UK basketball fan has taught me that the best team does not always win… and the SF loss last year is proof (2 Kyle Williams mistakes actually). I loved that SF-NO game, hated the SF-NYG game.
I see the Niners in the NFC championship or further again this year.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
9:16 pm
I bet if J and BJ played on the same team, their production would both be better. I have nothing really to base this on, but I just feel like they would really enjoy it and play looser. Maybe the sibling rivalry will push each of them a little more as well. I don’t know. But it would be cool to see and we have the means to do it.
BFChris28
November 19th, 2012
9:16 pm
JNick
For one, it wouldn’t be gutting the farm system to that level. It’d only be one of the two, not both or all of them. Besides there’s plenty of talent in the wings being cultivated. JR Graham, Navery Moore and a few others to boot.
Geechy Dan
November 19th, 2012
9:17 pm
Simmons is a RH star on the rise,don’t trade him…..get heyward protection in the lineup.Tired of the current lineup being abused by every LH pitcher under the sun…..hell,….Lannan owns us!
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:17 pm
Alex who? Daaaaaamn… Kaepernick is picking the Bears apart.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
9:17 pm
JNick, I really haven’t looked at those numbers. Fowler really isn’t even my number 1 choice anyway. I would much rather have Revere. I think he’s going to be a very good player for a long time.
Dav
November 19th, 2012
9:18 pm
Francoeur was stupid! he had the chance to be paid when (McCann was paid 5 for $27M)and lucky for the Braves he turned them down. If Braves aren’t playing well come July deadline I can see Braves trading McCann too… I’d wouldn’t care if Bourn or Upton turns down 5 year for $75, that’s all they are worth and both have there pros and cons. Pagan is a step below them and should sign for around $10M per year. I’d give Hamilton 5 for $95 to $100M before I’d offer more for BOURN, UPTON or Pagan more then they are worth. We s still have trade possibilities for Span, Willingham,Bourgious, Fowler. These teams will trade because they cann’t win without pitching.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
9:21 pm
IF Ugly Dan finishes out his asinine contract in Atl, he will not prove anything other than Frank Wren made a bad deal…
JNick
November 19th, 2012
9:22 pm
Ben Revere, finally, a suggestion/trade that makes sense
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
9:25 pm
Call me crazy, but I don’t think Simmons is really that good of a hitter. I think he had some early success but I don’t see him sustaining that kind of production, or anything close really. He really, really benefitted from A LOT of infield singles and bleeders. His swing is just ok and appears to have too many moving parts. It is a pretty short stroke but I just think he is due for some regression.
I really like him though and think eventually he will become a pretty decent hitter who could bat near the top of the order.
BFChris28
November 19th, 2012
9:25 pm
Ben Revere isn’t going anywhere. They’d trade Span before him.
old man
November 19th, 2012
9:25 pm
JNick:
Lefties make up about 30% of all MLB at bats each year.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
9:27 pm
trade an equal amount of major league payroll in pitching for Dexter Fowler (Hanson, JJ, whoever else is needed) and sign Hamilton, move Prado to 3B and play ball. Anything else Frank Wren might do scares the hell out of me…
old man
November 19th, 2012
9:27 pm
Darkcow, you’re crazy.
Jimiz
November 19th, 2012
9:27 pm
I had an idea what if the Braves signed Jeff Keppinger for next to nothing to play third leave Prado in left and trade for D. Span or sign Bourn. Jeff Had a good year playing for the Rays he’s no Evan but could be worth looking at it would give the Braves room to make a monster deal in July.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
9:27 pm
Being a UK basketball fan has taught me that the best team does not always win… and the SF loss last year is proof (2 Kyle Williams mistakes actually). I loved that SF-NO game, hated the SF-NYG game.
Heath — Great post — Just look at the 2007 Patriots. And in reverse, look at the 2001 Rams.
And the SF Giants were not a superior team to the Braves at all — but it was not to be. It could have been, But as fans who have watched sports for some time (I assume you have been a sports fan for a while), stuff happend in a playoff round.
We agree SF is a very dangerous team assuming health come playoff time.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
9:28 pm
I think that Jeff Keppinger will get about what Ross got — he is pretty darned good.
He will not be signed for next to nothing. He is more than a typical bench scrub.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
9:30 pm
I hope so, old man.
Yuuup
November 19th, 2012
9:32 pm
I wouldn’t mind seeing the Braves trade for Dexter Fowler for CF and sign Cody Ross for LF. The lineup would look like this.
Fowler- CF
Prado- 3B
Hayward- RF
Ross- LF
Freeman- 1B
McCann- C
Uggla- 2B
Simmons- SS
Pitcher
Not a bad lineup at all when you have a Uggla batting 7th and Simmons batting 8th. You know your lineup is deep then.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
9:33 pm
Dont have to trade Simmons for Upton. Theyre looking for vet pitching and a lefty reliever as well. Work on a 3team trade if the really want an SS as well. Upton is one guy to build our offense around. As for defense, errors dont tell the whole story. Simba made nearly 30 last year… look at him now. Range is the bigest key for OF. Justin has that, more so than his brother.
Revere wont be traded
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:34 pm
Yuuup:
Change your guys to Span/Swisher… and you got a deal.
Mike
November 19th, 2012
9:37 pm
You gotta be kiddin! Another rally killer. We need someone to replace Chipper or Michael Bourne and he is not either.We need a couple of quality players. The Phils won’t be injured next year and we already dropped back on catcher.
Mike
November 19th, 2012
9:37 pm
You gotta be kiddin! Another rally killer. We need someone to replace Chipper or Michael Bourne and he is not either.We need a couple of quality players. The Phils won’t be injured next year and we already dropped back on catcher.
Mike
November 19th, 2012
9:37 pm
You gotta be kiddin! Another rally killer. We need someone to replace Chipper or Michael Bourne and he is not either.We need a couple of quality players. The Phils won’t be injured next year and we already dropped back on catcher.
Playoffs!!!
November 19th, 2012
9:37 pm
I don’t want Cody Ross hitting cleanup. .
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:37 pm
“I also made you a video… probably shouldn’t watch it on the plane.”
Hilarious commercial.
Mike
November 19th, 2012
9:37 pm
You gotta be kiddin! Another rally killer. We need someone to replace Chipper or Michael Bourne and he is not either.We need a couple of quality players. The Phils won’t be injured next year and we already dropped back on catcher.
Mark
November 19th, 2012
9:39 pm
Man, I’m gonna have to rethink my partiocipation on the blog if some on here would trade Simmons for Upton.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:39 pm
4 drives, 4 scores… 20-0 Niners.
afan
November 19th, 2012
9:39 pm
Thanks Carroll for your reply….
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
9:40 pm
And we’re not gutting the farm to do that either. We’d trade up to 2 quality pitchers, maybe a third throwin. We would still have Graham, Sims, Moore, 1 of Teheran/Delgado left.. in addition to our pitvhing staff. We’ll be setup to still have pieces to trade for an ace next winter if need be, and we’ll get a power RH bat to slot in between Heyward and Freeman for the next 3 years. The dude’s gonna be a beast. A great addition to the lineup
Larry30
November 19th, 2012
9:41 pm
It’s amazing to me to read articles like this and hear that a .240-.250 hitter that might hit 25-30 homers is a prize catch and worth $15 million a year. When Andruw jones was getting 90 RBI and hitting 30 to 40 homers all we heard from the braves front office was how dissatisfied they were with his average. We will get upton to keep up the wren tradition of overpaying for mediocre talent. Then we will have almost half the payroll committed to three of the most average players out there and squander money we could be paying to franchise players like Freeman and Heyward. I wish I could get Wren to buy my used Japanese sedan so I would have the money to buy the Aston Martin I’ve always wanted.
afan
November 19th, 2012
9:41 pm
nick C- vs -Peter…the winner Nick C…
Nowhere man
November 19th, 2012
9:45 pm
Thanks for the new blog Carroll and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
9:46 pm
Just say no to Nick Swisher.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:48 pm
Holy cow… a Niners punt?
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:50 pm
Aldon Smith is unstoppable tonight.. bulldozed the O-lineman to knock down him and the QB lol.
Yuuup
November 19th, 2012
9:51 pm
Heath,
I am all for that as well. I really think Fowler would be a better fit in Atlanta over Span because of his Atlanta roots and he is a true leadoff hitter. I would take Swisher over Ross as well. I wouldnt be disappointed in either to be honest.
Also, Ross doesn’t have to hit cleanup. Put whoever is raking in that 4 spot. So go ahead Wren, trade for Fowler and sign Swisher or Ross.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
9:52 pm
Heath, your attempts at dragging these folks in here into talking about the 9ers game are failing. Just go to the Ajc Falcons blog, dude…
Playoffs!!!
November 19th, 2012
9:52 pm
We need a righhanded presence in the middle of the lineup to put between Heyward and Freeman. We might have to accept BJ Upton in spite of his shortcomings. But I think the Phils will upbid us.
Is their any other righthanded bat with some power that is available.He can even be a 3rd baseman.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
9:52 pm
Darkcow:
Go look at Swisher splits the last 3 years home/away and right/left. If after that you still don’t like him to play LF, I’d like to know why. Especially if they can get Span for CF and lead-off
Mark
November 19th, 2012
9:57 pm
No Upton, Trade Uggla, Impeach Obama – Vegas odds would be the same for Numbers 2 and 3.
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
10:02 pm
Mark for president
brian
November 19th, 2012
10:05 pm
If the braves #1 target is indeed BJ Upton and they sign him, I hope they put him in LF then trade for span/fowler/Cain to play CF and bat lead off. It would be a roll of the dice for Upton.
I don’t think it would be realistic but I agree with going all out for Stanton – minor, venters, Delgado/Teheran, and Ahmed. It will take a major package. If they use their money on BJ or whoever for CF so be it.
brian
November 19th, 2012
10:07 pm
Braves will not be trading Simmons for Upton. No way.
Simmons for Stanton – different story
Mark
November 19th, 2012
10:08 pm
No to Stanton. He changed his first name already once, next time its gonna be PED Stanton.
Mike S.
November 19th, 2012
10:09 pm
This is exactly what the Braves dont need. We have a few Upton’s already. What we need is someone who can be a legit leadoff and hit as well as Chipper and Bourn. Upton is neither and his bat isnt big enough to be what we need in the middle of the order. Failing that we need a big bat in the middle of this order, not a .240 hitter that might deliver 20 or so HRs. Hes happy alright. No one else will pay for him.
Who is this guy?
November 19th, 2012
10:10 pm
No to Stanton? Mark is apparently just stirring up trouble.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
10:12 pm
I don’t want to see either of the Upton brothers. Both would cost more than their worth… one in free agency and one via a trade. Braves can do better.
Mark
November 19th, 2012
10:12 pm
brian said Stanton for Simmons. I said no to PEDs. No stirring involved.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 19th, 2012
10:19 pm
BJ will not be moving to LF, unfortunately. He will be playing CF if he’s signed.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
10:19 pm
nick C- vs -Peter…the winner Nick C… wow and someone is keeping score…..a joke !
I really not that interested……but mark my words, at the end of next season, as the Braves fade into the off season, and the fan base is more pissed then ever…Uggla, not worth the money, the Braves are in third place behind the Phillies, and the Nationals…. and Wren has given you another expensive piece of the losing puzzle.
Then they don’t have the cash to sign the young guns.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:20 pm
No to “name changer” Stanton! Out of this world egos need not apply…
Billvillebaron
November 19th, 2012
10:20 pm
Amber Girl:
If you are still on here you have all the evidence you red to confirm my earlier comments. Most of the geniuses on here ripping Wren forget the cupboard was basically bare when he took over after SCHUERHOLZ made the Texeira deal. They also conveniently ignore that the team won 94 games last year and is loaded with young talent, especially the most important commodity-pitching. Upton’s homers have steadily risen the last four years, he also has averaged more runs scores than Bourne and obviously has much more power. His lifetime OBP is .335. I for one think he would be the right handed power bat to balance out their left handed lineup. His steal success rate compares favorably with Born. Players with 30/30 potential entering their prime don’t grow on trees. You also don’t have to trade anyone if you sign him. For the poster who asked, Upton’s post season numbers are pretty good whereas Swisher has been terrible in the post season and would IMHO struggle once he leaves that short right field porch in Yankee Stadium. Then again what do I know? I was the dunce who applauded Wren when he signed Hudson when many of the same guys panning Wren’s interest in Upton wanted to keep “Career Year” Vasquez.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
10:24 pm
27-0
311-31 yards
That’s dominance.
Bill Donohoo
November 19th, 2012
10:24 pm
Stay away from both Uptons and other high price Outfielders. Other than Hamilton (no more than 3 years) I don’t see a big dollar outfielder that will make that much difference. I would have Pasternicky play CF.
old man
November 19th, 2012
10:25 pm
BJ is sort of the conservative thing to do. He has been highly rated in the press, and we sure can’t go into opening day not having spent a lot of the money we have. So BJ fills a lot of needs–baseball needs, financial needs, PR needs.
And I see a lot of the baseball logic in getting him. I would not be crushed like some if we got him.
More aggressive and less conservative things to do would be to trade for Stanton, or Wil Myers, or Olt, or Justin Upton, etc. These would be more exciting things to do. And would involve parting with some very good players.
In theory, we could do one of each.
Hamilton and Bourn are too expensive for what you are getting–known behavioral issues and aging legs.
brian
November 19th, 2012
10:25 pm
Stanton did not change his first name, he is simply going by his given first name Giancarlo. I watched Stanton play a full season in the minors. He is the real deal. Unbelievable power. Great arm. Great speed. Heyward and Stanton back to back would be a dream 3-4 hitting tandem.
Stanton will not be coming to the Braves. I still cannot believe people say no to Stanton though.
Bobby H
November 19th, 2012
10:25 pm
Billvillebaron
Make up your mind, man. You were just, bvillebaron , a few pages, ago.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:25 pm
who cares if we won 94 games man? the Giants won the WS!
old man
November 19th, 2012
10:27 pm
Where is the nonsense about Stanton having an ego problem or having a PEDs habit?
Nothing out there to support that.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
10:28 pm
Aldon Smith is unstoppable tonight.. bulldozed the O-lineman to knock down him and the QB lol.
Aldon Smith is a heck of a football player — keep up the Niners converstaion — I don;t like em but its good football talk.
With a game like this Kapernick can get himself a nice contract in FA if and when he gets there — look at Matt Flynn and Kevin Kolb. I hope for his sake he is better than those two.
Seattle has to be kicking themselves for giving that $$$$$$$$$$ to Flynn when a rookie Russell Wilson beat him out.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:30 pm
Stop harping on the technicalities of “name changing”. Who gives a rat’s ass if Giancarlo or however the hell you spell it is on the guy’s birth certificate? The POINT is that it waves a huge red flag any time you see a GROWN ASS man change the name he goes by for any reason, whatsoever…
Disgusted
November 19th, 2012
10:30 pm
Will Myers is taked about alot and he might be all that but remember all the Tim Wheeler talk from last yr.
What happened to Wheeler’s power in AAA this yr??????????
Prospects are what they are — prospects.
old man
November 19th, 2012
10:33 pm
Giancarlo Cruz Michael Stanton
He is Irish, African-American, and Puerto Rican in heritage. At some point he (or more likely his family) decided to call him Mike. He decided to honor some person are element of his heritage by reverting to his true first name.
So how does this mean he has a big ego?
Heath
November 19th, 2012
10:33 pm
I’m obviously a Niners fan but tonight’s performance against the Bears was not something I thought we’d see. The Bears offensive line does not belong on the field against the Niners defensive line. This is actually getting nuts.
old man
November 19th, 2012
10:35 pm
Actually, it’s a red flag whenever you see a grown up using the words GROWN ASS in all caps in a public forum.
If I had to pick someone right now to have a beer with, it would be Giancarlo, not BravesFanSince80s.
Bobby H
November 19th, 2012
10:35 pm
Stop harping on the technicalities of “name changing”. Who gives a rat’s ass if Giancarlo or however the hell you spell it is on the guy’s birth certificate? The POINT is that it waves a huge red flag any time you see a GROWN ASS man change the name he goes by for any reason, whatsoever… — BravesFanSince80s
That makes me wonder how you feel about a GROWN ASS man on this blog that has already changed his name over 100 times in only 5 pages.
old man
November 19th, 2012
10:36 pm
person or element
Darkcow
November 19th, 2012
10:36 pm
Heath is relentless. He just really wants you people to talk about football. His grandchildren haven’t told him that there are other blog sites out there.
http://www.ajc.com/falcons
Mark
November 19th, 2012
10:36 pm
No supporting evidence for Bonds either when he was playing other than his hat and shoe size was growing at age 40! Sometimes you just have to open your eyes and look at the guy and use some common sense.
Billvillebaron
November 19th, 2012
10:38 pm
Enter your comments here
Heath
November 19th, 2012
10:38 pm
Darkcow:
You still haven’t looked at the 3-year Swisher home/road and Left/Right splits and explained why you don’t like Swisher.
old man
November 19th, 2012
10:39 pm
He does not look any different than Tony Gonzalez, and I’m sure he’s using nothing at all.
The difference is that Bonds looked one way for 10 years, and then suddenly changed. Stanton has always looked big and strong.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:40 pm
ok Old Man, I’ll bite. You find nothing whatsoever unusual in someone in their ADULT YEARS going from being known as Mike, to being known as GIancarlo? SERIOUSLY? Can you just imagine some of those first conversations? RIDICULOUS…
Mark
November 19th, 2012
10:41 pm
The users start earlier these days.
Bob the Blogger
November 19th, 2012
10:43 pm
The Braves were in the bottom third of most offensive categories in 2012. With Upton’s career OPS+ of 105, which is just over MLB average, he is not the impact player we need to boost the offense, at least not for the money he’s seeking. It appears that the combination of home runs and stolen bases has been overrated, and the overall productivity has been underrated.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:43 pm
you ‘whiffed” Bobby H
TNScott
November 19th, 2012
10:44 pm
Upton is a very bad idea. I feel worse about this trade proposal than I did when I heard about the Uggla trade.
Bvillebaron
November 19th, 2012
10:46 pm
Bobby H:
It’s supposed to be Bvillebaron. Feel better now?
brian
November 19th, 2012
10:47 pm
MArk – did you see Stanton when he was 18?
He was huge then – Dave Winfield type big. Athletic as well. He never was the skinny guy that Bonds was.
Those accusations are completely unfounded.
LJS
November 19th, 2012
10:47 pm
I wish people would stop mentioning the d-bags Swisher and Cody Ross.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:48 pm
Ok, Old Man, ordinarily, I would agree with you on ethics, manners, etc, but it seemed ridiculous to defend an adult male for going for years and years and years as “Mike”, to asking his colleagues, all of a sudden and out of the blue, to refer to him as “Giancarlo”. Thought most other adults would find that as silly as I do. Guess I stand corrected. Guess some adults are fine with whatever ridiculous behavior an athlete performs as long as he’s a “masher”…
‘
Mark
November 19th, 2012
10:48 pm
Stantons weight
233 in 2010
248 in 2012
263 in 2014 ?
Bobby H
November 19th, 2012
10:49 pm
Bobby H:
It’s supposed to be Bvillebaron. Feel better now? — Bvillebaron (aka, bvillebaron, Billvillebaron)
If you feel better… then I fell better.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
10:50 pm
Did Chad Johnson change his name because he was on ‘roids? I forget.
nolie
November 19th, 2012
10:52 pm
some major silliness going on here for quite a while, but i can’t get on the blog? This can’t be DOB doing this I don’t think.
old man
November 19th, 2012
10:52 pm
BravesFanSince80s
Look, these guys are in the entertainment business. What was Cary Grant’s real name?
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:52 pm
LJS, I completely agree. No to Cody Ross, no to Nick Swisher, not BJ Upton, no more “softball team” additions please!
Name change
November 19th, 2012
10:53 pm
Heath
November 19th, 2012 10:50 pm
Did Chad Johnson change his name because he was on ‘roids? I forget.
Nice
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:55 pm
big difference between and athlete and an actor sir, no comparison…
old man
November 19th, 2012
10:55 pm
I don’t think he changed his name from Mike to Giancarlo to please you, BravesFanSince80s.
He probably did it because he is about 1000% more likely to pick up girls in a bar with a name like that.
Mark
November 19th, 2012
10:56 pm
Heath
To steal a phrase from Barney when describing Earnest T I think he did it because he is a nut
BraveDan
November 19th, 2012
10:56 pm
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:48 pm
Ok, Old Man, ordinarily, I would agree with you on ethics, manners, etc, but it seemed ridiculous to defend an adult male for going for years and years and years as “Mike”, to asking his colleagues, all of a sudden and out of the blue, to refer to him as “Giancarlo”. Thought most other adults would find that as silly as I do. Guess I stand corrected. Guess some adults are fine with whatever ridiculous behavior an athlete performs as long as he’s a “masher
I agree with you on the ridiculous name changing.
Name change
November 19th, 2012
10:56 pm
He probably did it because he is about 1000% more likely to pick up girls in a bar with a name like that.
Ok… that was funny.
And probably true.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
10:57 pm
Heath, EXCELLENT example!
old man
November 19th, 2012
11:00 pm
The bottom line is that it’s sheer lunacy to say you would not want Stanton on your team. If there is a no brainer in all of this, it’s that in a vacuum, without considering what you would have to give up, Stanton is the top ten of all players in MLB. And among those who might even remotely be available, he is in the top 3. Maybe the top 1.
Name change
November 19th, 2012
11:01 pm
BravesFanSince80s:
Jason Williams changed his name to Jay so as not to be associated with a basketball player due to the murder trial. No wait… I am wrong, it’s because he was on ‘roids.
old man
November 19th, 2012
11:01 pm
I’m talking about via trade.
Heath
November 19th, 2012
11:02 pm
Good example too Name change
old man
November 19th, 2012
11:03 pm
If he changed his name to get girls, then that would be an affirmative reason to actually trade for him, right?
Especially if the girls came to Turner Field.
tc
November 19th, 2012
11:04 pm
The last BJ we had didn’t work out so well either.
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
11:06 pm
and just look where the Marlins are Old Man, you wanna be a Marlins fan? I’m not saying he’s entirely to blame, but guys like that in the clubhouse are a problem, no matter how good they are, Upton falls into the same category to me. When you see Longoria in the dugout in a game, threatening to whip his ass, that’s a bad sign…
Bobby H
November 19th, 2012
11:06 pm
If he changed his name to get girls, then that would be an affirmative reason to actually trade for him, right? — old man
Heck, I’d change my name to, Adolf Hitler, if it was to get me some girls…
Hillbilly
November 19th, 2012
11:06 pm
I mentioned it that day but I will say again: Stanton changed his name the same day it was announced that Snooki was pregnant. This is how rumors get started.
richbrave
November 19th, 2012
11:08 pm
SOUTH OF THE BORDER
DOMINICA
EASTERN BULLS
PR JOSE CONSTANZA [.345 BA] 0-0
LICEY TIGERS
3B JUAN FRANCISCO [.310 BA] 1-4, 2 SO.
C CHRISTIAN BETHANCOURT [.258 BA] 0-3, 1 RBI [1], 1 SF.
ORIENTE STARS
CF FELIX PIE [.253 BA] 0-5, HAT TRICK!
VENEZUELA
CARACAS LIONS
RF JOSH KROEGER [.263 BA] 1-5, 1 SO.
ZULIA EAGLES
No game
Heath
November 19th, 2012
11:09 pm
Darkcow:
You ever check out Swisher’s last 3-year home/road left/right splits?
Heath
November 19th, 2012
11:12 pm
4.5 sacks tonight for Aldon Smith. Sorry Darkcow… this guy’s performance merits some mention. Owning whoever lines up on the other side of the ball tonight.
brian
November 19th, 2012
11:13 pm
Mark – are you surprised that a high school athlete gains weight when he goes pro and starts a pro training program? Or a college training program?
How many athletes are using the new, undetectable steroid cream that has been rumored that you also seems to get out of the system quickly nobody knows
Bobby H
November 19th, 2012
11:13 pm
I mentioned it that day but I will say again: Stanton changed his name the same day it was announced that Snooki was pregnant. — Hillbilly
I remember that day, Hillbilly. No one was more relieved than I…
brian
November 19th, 2012
11:13 pm
1st full season in the minors at age 18, Stanton led the minors in HRs (I think he had 39)
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
11:21 pm
NOBODY gains 30 pounds of all muscle by weight lifting alone when talking baseball-related workouts…
Mark
November 19th, 2012
11:21 pm
Brian
Some high school guys use PEDs.
Just look at the guy. How can you not think he is on roids?
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
11:23 pm
you MIGHT gain 15-20 pounds if you work really hard at it, but not 30, now way, no how, uh uh…
yeah uh huh
November 19th, 2012
11:26 pm
signing this Upton will open the door for getting the other one as both want to play together
brian
November 19th, 2012
11:35 pm
i am a glass half full guy Mark -
Kris
November 19th, 2012
11:35 pm
BJ Upton? Really? It’s all well and good to have one pig on your team (Uggla), but do we need to have two? We need guys that get on base not another all or nothing masher. I really hope Philly or someone else shows BJ the money because we don’t need him. I’d rather have a light hitting center fielder that plays solid defense and gets on base then Dan Uggla redux. Does FW even look at OBP?
With Upton in the line-up we’ll be the same team we always are – just sitting around waiting for the 3-run HR with virtually no chance of working pitchers and scrapping some runs together. Having one Uggla is frustrating at times, but usually it’s all good if you have a line-up of guys who get on base, but we don’t have that. Please take the money from someone else BJ – I’m sure you’re a nice guy and all, but we don’t need you in Atlanta!
Mark
November 19th, 2012
11:46 pm
glass half full guys have made a lot of con artists rich.
Are you one of those that still think Uggla is gonna break out soon?
You can’t ignore the obvious.
ncgary
November 19th, 2012
11:46 pm
personally i dont think bj upton is the solution
before we go that route id as soon see schaefer and constanza split time there
ncgary
November 19th, 2012
11:48 pm
not that i want that as a solution either but give me a break bj upton isnt the solution for 1 year much less 5 yrs
JNick
November 19th, 2012
11:49 pm
Toronto gave Milk-man 2 yrs/$16mil? WTF?
Bobby H
November 19th, 2012
11:50 pm
glass half full guys have made a lot of con artists rich. — Mark
And glass half empty guys have made a lot of divorce attorneys rich. So, what’s your point?
ncgary
November 19th, 2012
11:51 pm
bring back the road runner and claudell washington
youd get better production from them in their 70’s than you will upton
JNick
November 19th, 2012
11:52 pm
Over the last 3 years, Upton faced LHP 25.8% of the time – so we were all wrong…not 10% and not 38%…lol.
JNick
November 19th, 2012
11:53 pm
Justin Upton, that is…
jeffrey d
November 19th, 2012
11:55 pm
Are you one of those that still think Uggla is gonna break out soon?
You can’t ignore the obvious.
I mean, it’s almost as if Dan Uggla hasn’t proven himself to be one of, if not the, top offensive second basemen over the past 7 years.
But no, he struggled last season so that means he’s the worst player in the world who kicks puppies in his free time.
Mark
November 19th, 2012
11:56 pm
Bobby
Simply that if you suspect something to be true you can just ignore it and hope it isn’t. If a guy looks like Bonds, McGuire or Canseco then chances are real good he is doing the same thing they did in order to look that way.
brian
November 19th, 2012
11:56 pm
it is not obvious that Stanton uses PEDs.
I don’t think anybody reading the blog regularly over the past year would classify me as someone who thought Uggla hung the moon and would break out of it any day now. Far from it
Mark
November 19th, 2012
11:59 pm
Fair enough
Take care and good night all
BravesFanSince80s
November 19th, 2012
11:59 pm
WHOA, Bobby H, you just answered A TON of questions I had about you!
brian
November 20th, 2012
12:03 am
I do not think that BJ is the solution either. Maybe he will do better in the NL with a fresh start on a new team. Maybe so but I do not want to bet $75 million dollars on it either.
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:07 am
Simply that if you suspect something to be true you can just ignore it and hope it isn’t. If a guy looks like Bonds, McGuire or Canseco then chances are real good he is doing the same thing they did in order to look that way. — Mark
I can agree to that, but that doesn’t mean your glass is half empty or full all of the time. Just means you see suspect something that someone else doesn’t.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that seeing a certain point in differing ways doesn’t stamp a person for life as being one way or the other. (OK, I’m getting too philosophical, now)
the truth...
November 20th, 2012
12:07 am
I’m with you Brian………….not $75 million …………NOT
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
12:08 am
jeffrey d, keep it up man, you gain in idiocy on an almost dayly basis, stop with the Ugly Dan man-love for God’s sake!
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
12:09 am
daily*
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:09 am
*supposed to be OR between suspect/see*, dammit
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:18 am
jeffrey d, keep it up man, you gain in idiocy on an almost dayly basis, stop with the Ugly Dan man-love for God’s sake! — BravesFanSince80s
Don’t worry, jeffrey d. That’s just the LouVales/Earl-dude that’s giving you a hard time.
He’s had a busy night – already used over 100 names and we’re only through 5 pages!
There’s been only a handful of posters on this new blog… but there’s over 500 comments! When things are slow, he argues amongst himselves…
Kwajbraves
November 20th, 2012
12:22 am
I hope the Phils overpay him. We are probably sign Gomes and platoon him with Reed.
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
12:26 am
Bobby H, my name is Nathan Chapman, I live in Andrews, NC, you can look me up on facebook if you care, and I have not used another username at all, MORON…
Yunel's Frosted Tips
November 20th, 2012
12:27 am
If we gone load up on whiff machines……let’s bring back Frenchy and put him in left……
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
12:27 am
Don’t worry, jeffrey d. That’s just the LouVales/Earl-dude that’s giving you a hard time
Why would I worry? This dude has lost respect from anybody with any ability to reason since about his 3rd post.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
12:30 am
You know what our problem is? We refuse to accept any middle ground. Everything’s black or white.
I’ll concede that Uggla has had some enormous rough patches since he’s come to Atlanta. And that at times he’s been unwatchable. But you also have to admit he’s had some huge stretches, and that his track record (5 straight seasons of 30+ homeruns until this year) has earned him the benefit of the doubt.
oooooooor you can just focus on the negative and be miserable with your life.
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:31 am
Bobby H, my name is Nathan Chapman, I live in Andrews, NC, you can look me up on facebook if you care, and I have not used another username at all, MORON… –BravesFanSince80s
Oh, don’t worry – I KNOW you live in NC… but the rest of it is all BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, but nice try, anyway. Actually, it wasn’t even a nice try… kinda weak, to be honest with you. But don’t give up… we like your efforts, here.
Venice Jim
November 20th, 2012
12:34 am
I think it’s best I just go to bed without commenting…
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
12:35 am
Sorry man, keep hacking if you want, but all those other folks were just that. I have not posted under another name. It’s a half-hour past midnight, perhaps folks just went to bed, hmmmmm?
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
12:35 am
But don’t give up… we like your efforts, here.
Dang it, Bobby!
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:37 am
I think it’s best I just go to bed without commenting…
You ALMOST had it, VJ
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:38 am
Sorry, jeffrey d, slow time of the year and all…
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
12:41 am
look, Bobby H and Jeffrey D, between my wife, my two toddler sons, and bath night, and sitting here building 2 different custom fly rods, I can ASSURE you that I have not been a troll on here logging in as several different people, GROW UP….
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:43 am
BravesFanSince80s
You mean you post the way you do…. on PURPOSE????
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
12:45 am
Bobby H=silly blog police, same question easily applies to you…
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
12:46 am
look, Bobby H and Jeffrey D, between my wife, my two toddler sons, and bath night, and sitting here building 2 different custom fly rods, I can ASSURE you that I have not been a troll on here logging in as several different people, GROW UP….
I never accused you of being more than 1 person, I just accused you of being annoying and deppresed.
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:46 am
My answer would be a confidant, YES!
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
12:47 am
depressed*
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:47 am
Except I should spell it correctly *confidEnt*
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:49 am
Between Lou & characters… and all of our spelling corrections – we’re on our way to a record-setting blog. Go Carroll!
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
12:49 am
Dangit, Bobby!
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
12:51 am
And by the way, if I had 2 toddler sons, and if I was up at 1 AM, I’d either be 1) tending to the infant sons, or 2) SLEEPING
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:52 am
Thank you, jeffrey d. That’s my first, double dangit, in one evening!
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
12:52 am
check out a mirror sometime jeffrey d
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
12:56 am
shows your ignorance man, IF you had them right? They’re asleep you dolt, I get as much work done as I can while THEY’RE ASLEEP…
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:57 am
check out a mirror sometime jeffrey d — BravesFanSince80s
If you don’t ask him, I will… what’s that supposed to mean?
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
12:58 am
I’m just saying….I’ve never heard people with ONE toddler say, “man, I’ve got so much extra time, I think I’ll go blog!”
But not perfect parent and perfect baseball analysist BravesFanSince80s
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
12:59 am
shows your ignorance man, IF you had them right? They’re asleep you dolt, I get as much work done as I can while THEY’RE ASLEEP… — BravesFanSince80’s
How much are you getting paid for this?
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
1:01 am
When one of his kids wakes up in the middle of the night, he just farts and the kid falls back asleep and learns basic arithmetic. If one of them needs a diaper changing he wiggles his nose and, BOOM……kid is suddenly potty trained and fluent in 3 romantic languages.
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
1:02 am
I get paid to build fly rods Bobby H, I clearly stated that, once again, grow up…
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
1:04 am
I get paid to build fly rods Bobby H, I clearly stated that, once again, grow up… — BravesFanSince80’s
Sorry, man, didn’t know you used a keyboard for that. That puzzles me, but I know you wouldn’t make anything up.
BravesFanInNashville
November 20th, 2012
1:05 am
This could be a strategy to make other teams including the Phillies believe they really are interested in Upton. This could lead the Phillies overpay him if they think they have competition. I can’t believe the Braves really have him as their #1 choice. Terrible OBP and high strikeouts with an attitude. What will he be like once he has his contract in hand?
MLB channel on XM said they think the Braves could be the team to land Hamilton and for less money than people think. His biggest offer might come from the Red Sox but he probably doesn’t want to go there because of the media and fan scrutiny. They said thought he might sign for 4 or 5 years tops and at under $20 Million per year probably $18 Million. If that is true I certainly would rather have Hamilton for 5 years $90 Million than Upton 5 years $75 Million. This is just the opinion of one network but it’s an interesting take. Seems just as likely he’ll get someone to offer him 5 years and $23 Million/yr. Can’t wait to see how this turns out.
In the past Wren has played his cards publicly and paid for it. T
Bobby H
November 20th, 2012
1:07 am
Now it’s my turn for a… Dang it! Gotta go, it’s been fun. I’ll leave the blog in your 3 capable hands. Have a good night, to all.
BravesFanInNashville
November 20th, 2012
1:08 am
Continuing the last post. Wren has paid for showing his hand publicly. I hope he’s learned from that and will keep his true intentions quite until he’s actually pulled the trigger. Nothing wrong with the element of surprise.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
1:09 am
Dang it, Bobby!!
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
1:17 am
BFin N, I agree, I really HOPE it’s all smoke and mirrors for our sake which is what I told FRIENDS (despite the earlier comment towards my loneliness) this afternoon shortly after reading Carrol’s article. I think Wren is more interested in a less expensive CF like Fowler or Span or Cain or who knows…
WeBurn
November 20th, 2012
1:19 am
This is the ranking of who we should sign:
1. Josh Hamilton: He has the ability to carry a team and gives us a HUGE bat in the middle of our lineup.
2. B.J. Upton: Good power bat, just needs a change of scenery to really explode.
3. Angel Pagan: We need a leadoff hitter and I think he’s a better return on investment than…
4. Michael Bourn: Not worth 15+ a year, not after his strikeout issues.
Justin
November 20th, 2012
1:22 am
Spend Some money on Hamilton I Mean Why in the hell do they want another Uggla cuz thats what the dude is He is gona hit 20 25 HR Strikeout a ton rarely get on base thats not what this team needs.
JNick
November 20th, 2012
1:22 am
Anyway….
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
1:23 am
for the record, if you DONT have kids, and you’re trying to sound knowledgeble to someone who DOES have kids, you’re immediately recognizable as a dumbass, so just stop, ok?…
Paul Wall
November 20th, 2012
1:24 am
People shut up about fowler and Cody Ross they both suck!!!
Ken Stallings
November 20th, 2012
1:25 am
That was my thought about Josh Hamilton also. He’s an eastern NC kid and frankly he doesn’t want to be in the limelight. He’ll fit in nicely with the medium media market in Atlanta. I think that’s exactly why the Braves may be able to sign him, and I agree that he may be signable for something in the $18 million a year range for five years. I’d like to see the Braves put that contract offer on the table and see what happens. I think Hamilton would accept that offer from the Braves.
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
1:27 am
I will be shocked if it’s Upton. I think Wren is tryng to “pull” something…
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
1:30 am
I agree Ken. I think despite his issues, Hamilton is actually a good fit here…
BravesFanInNashville
November 20th, 2012
1:33 am
Ken Stallings…. From your lips to God’s ears. If Hamilton would do that I say sign him tonight before he changes his mind. As we know from Scott Boras’ success in the past it only takes ONE team to be willing to overpay someone to get a ridiculous contract done. Look at Zito, ARod and now even Pujol’s. There might be one team who wants him bad enough to bite at $23 to $25 million per year for 5 yrs. I hope it’s not the Braves if that’s the price. If he can be had for $20 Million or less and 5 years or less I think he’d be worth the risk. This is only because of his ability to carry a team for weeks and to sell tickets which translates into revenue to keep improving the team.
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
1:37 am
aside from staying healthy, I really don’t see Hamilton as much of a risk for 5 yrs in Atl…
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
1:39 am
I think it makes far more sense to pay Hamilton 20-22 million/yr for 5 yrs, than to pay Upton 15 million/yr for 5 yrs…
BravesFanInNashville
November 20th, 2012
1:48 am
BravesFanSince80’s…. I agree 5 years seems reasonable for the kind of player he is. It would be great to sign him to play LF (Less wear and tear) and trade for Span. To play CF and lead off. Prado could play LF when Josh needs a day off and Fransisco could play 3B and give us a power bat in the lineup so there would’t be a big drop off.
1.) Span – CF
2.) Prado – 3B
3.) Heyward – RF
4.) Hamilton – LF
5.) Uggla – 2B
6.) Freeman-1B
7.) McCann – C
8.) Simmons – SS
Pretty good line-up. Still think the Braves will make a play to trade McCann this winter. Just a hunch but I think we’ll see an attempt before spring training. Imagine if we got rid of his salary and picked up a prospect and signed Russell Martin. Now we’d have another RH bat in the line-up and we’d be more balanced.
No , no and no to BJ Upton. We don’t need another strikeout every game from a RH batter.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:06 am
Hello everyone! I say yes to B.J. Upton, and will support Wren. on B.J. Upton. He is exactly the sort we need, and he would be great in line – up.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:07 am
Also, hope Braves can get Cody Ross too!
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:10 am
Kinda of wonder where all this negativity comes from? Everbody else is looking at B.J. Upton, but the negativers on the blog. Sounds about right, and all in all nothing will make them happy.
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
2:13 am
I agree with all of that, no to Upton, Hamilton IF we can get him, Span, Fowler, Cain, Pagan, any of those work in CF for me, etc…..
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
2:17 am
Ward, Upton gets on base less than Ugly Dan, why is this something we need?
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:27 am
Really !!!!!!!! Try telling some one else. Same old story by you guys. It’s not going to change what I think!
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:29 am
Anyways you have the right to your opinions, but It’s the same old story to me. Have a good one! Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
Nowhere man
November 20th, 2012
2:41 am
The true story of Stanton’s name.
His mother really liked Italian names, so he was named Giancarlo. When he first started school none of his classmates could pronounce his name so they started calling him Mike at school. The family continued to call him Giancarlo and then he decided he wanted everyone to call him Giancarlo again.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:43 am
I like the other guys too, but I like B.J. Upton, and Cody Ross better. Wren, should only go after them unless he can’t get B.J. Upton, or Cody Ross. Peace Out! have a good one!
JNick
November 20th, 2012
3:09 am
If Wren trades for Fowler, I’m abandoning this team
Could be entertaining BJ just to drive the price up on Philly. Love to see them overspend….
Around The Horn
November 20th, 2012
4:09 am
ALL THOSE STRIKEOUTS
What happened to signing high average contact hitters? But Wren continues to be power hungry.
It’s bad enough having to watch Uggla strikeout relentlessly. And now potentially Upton as well.
It just doesn’t make good sense.
Just Saying..
November 20th, 2012
4:16 am
Been living in Tampa Bay area since retired from Atlanta career in 2003, avid Rays fan since. Teammates seem to like/tolerate him, fans not so much. Andruw Jones with a worse attitude. Longoria got in his grill after a no hustle outfield play, Maddon has pulled him for same. One of those guys with worlds of talent, content to cruise through life, for millions.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
5:46 am
Looks like I missed some entertainment last night…. dangit!!!!
BFS80… Still harping on the name change? Grow up, dude. Hope you never change your name, Mr. Nathan Chapman.
I do not believe that Giancarlo is on roids. Nothing makes me believe that he is, no extraordinary growth or power surges.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
5:52 am
Im one of the positive ones Ward and i’m saying no to Upton… it’s for the best.
a fan
November 20th, 2012
6:55 am
As I’ve said many times I live in the Tampa area and saw Upton every night, we don’t want him!
Chipper Jones
November 20th, 2012
7:01 am
Dan Uggla SUCKS !
Couch Tater
November 20th, 2012
7:04 am
ncgary – FYI
http://www.kevinturnerfoundation.org/
Peter
November 20th, 2012
7:06 am
I’ll concede that Uggla has had some enormous rough patches since he’s come to Atlanta. And that at times he’s been unwatchable. But you also have to admit he’s had some huge stretches, and that his track record (5 straight seasons of 30+ homeruns until this year) has earned him the benefit of the doubt.
oooooooor you can just focus on the negative and be miserable with your life
Well to all that……… Uggla is at the end of his career……. he has been miserable to watch at times, a free out in the line up………and he is way over paid for his production……where is he batting ? 6th 7th 8th at times ?
You pay a guy in his position the most money in the majors to bat in those spots ?
Ok Wren is your savior ! He is the guy making a Brave’s fan life miserable…… Also please tell me who wanted to come to Atlanta and play with Chipper ?
Nativebird
November 20th, 2012
7:17 am
If your not willing to “overpay” for players you are never going to compete for a championship…..and not talking about a “division championship” either.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
7:40 am
He is the guy making a Brave’s fan life miserable
If your reasoning is because Atlanta hasn’t won a World Series, then you can say that 29 GMs should be fired every year.
I’m really not sure how you can fault Wren for trading a utility player for Dan Uggla without using hindsight. And I don’t think he’s at the “end of his career” at 32.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
7:43 am
Josh Hamilton – injury prone and lots of personal baggage. I wouldn’t pay – much less overpay – for the guy.
B J Upton – Dan Uggla with speed who hasn’t Uggla’s ability to walk (though he matches Uggla in the strikeout department). I wouldn’t pay – much less overpay – for him. 5/75 is over-payment for Upton.
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
7:44 am
thanks tater
pulling it up now
BraveDan
November 20th, 2012
7:55 am
Wow, it looks like the old blog was entertaining while we slept. lol
Escaped from Email Purgatory
November 20th, 2012
8:03 am
Amazing the Liberty Media Braves can’t part with the bucks to retain a guy who is:
– the best leadoff hitter since Rafael Furcal
– the best defensive center fielder since Andruw Jones
– one of the most productive offensive players in the line up.
Clearly, Bourn fills two critical roles. Seems he’s the most indispensable every day player on the roster.
What are these cheapskates going to do when it’s time for all the talented young pitchers to get paid?
T J Lambert
November 20th, 2012
8:09 am
Fowler always seems to play well against Atlanta. He would be my pick. Remember Atlanta appears to be the place that hitters find their slump when acquired. Nate and Dan being the poster childen.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
8:10 am
Let’s not start blaming LM for not signing Bourn quite yet. Its stupid. There is a guy name Boras involved. I am guessing the Braves offer Bourn somewhere in the 13-15m a year for 4-5 yrs. If and when the Nat’s offer either the same OR even higher its up to Bourn and Boras on the deals on the table. I would again guess that Boras would push Bourn to accept the Nat’s deal. And I don’t want to see the Braves “over pay” for anyone. Look at the teams that over pay free agents, they end up getting burned and handcuff the team for several years. And plus those of you clamoring to over pay, will be the first annoying ones complaining that the Braves over paid.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
8:14 am
Bourn struck out a lot and his second half was poor offensively. His agent, Scott Boras, is famous for leveraging contracts for his clients that nicely overpay them for their services.
Reports are that Boras is seeking a contract for Bourn well over the 5/75 that most thought would be Bourn’s ask.
Bourn’s defense is superb, yes. But he’s not worth the price tag.
I’ll take Span or even Fowler, both of whom are capable center-fielders and good hitters. And for a lot less than the Braves would have to fork over for Bourn.
Trader Jack
November 20th, 2012
8:16 am
Looking at the overnight comments, it appears that they finally installed wi-fi at the asylum.
Peter
November 20th, 2012
8:17 am
If your not willing to “overpay” for players you are never going to compete for a championship…..and not talking about a “division championship” either.
So who did the Giant’s over pay for on their roster ? Hmmmmmmm ?
The Walrus
November 20th, 2012
8:18 am
The Braves do NOT need another 160 strikeouts in the lineup, especially when those strikeouts are attached to an average outfielder.
fladawg
November 20th, 2012
8:20 am
I don’t think Upton or Bourn will be Braves next year because the Phillies will overpay Upton and the Nats will overpay Bourn. The Braves will end up with a second tier free agent, and that is not a bad thing. I am scared that now that Wren has a more money to spend that he will mismanage it with another Uggla-like signing.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
8:21 am
So who did the Giant’s over pay for on their roster ? Hmmmmmmm ?
Zito.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
8:23 am
Also, Aubrey Huff. $10 million for a .192 average.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
8:23 am
Yes let’s over pay for Bourn and Hamilton for 5-7 yrs, handcuffing the team on making moves in the future especially when it comes to re-signing Freeman and Hayward etc. @Peter, perfect example with the Giants. Ask the Marlins what overpaying did for their team last year. Ask the Met’s how that worked out for them for the last decade and look where their team is now, hoping to contend somewhere in the future.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
8:24 am
Lincecum made $18M last year
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
8:25 am
And for the record, the Giants won the same number of games as the Braves last year (94). They just didn’t have to play a 1-game playoff.
reckingball
November 20th, 2012
8:26 am
I hope that they don’t sign Upton for that much money.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
8:28 am
@jeffrey d, we all can go thru every roster and look at guys salaries and performance not living up to the dollars. I agree with you in the likes of Zito. When that deal was done, I knew it was a bad deal but I am one not in favor of long term deals especially for pitchers. The only one that comes to mind that has worked out is CC. But in my opinion, most long term deals over 5-6 yrs just don’t work out too well for the team
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
8:29 am
we all can go thru every roster and look at guys salaries and performance not living up to the dollars
Yeah I know, but the question was “Who did the Giants overpay for.”
Zito, duh.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
8:31 am
crazies all over the place last night. Who really is that dumb? They gotta be trolling…
fladawg
November 20th, 2012
8:31 am
Saying that you have to “over pay” to compete for a championship makes absolutely no sense. If overpaying was the key, the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Phillies, Dodgers would win the World Series every year.
Scott
November 20th, 2012
8:33 am
Sure would like to Span in CF batting leadoff. That is the only way I am ok with Upton, if he plays LF and bats 6th. With that said playing LF and batting 6th or 7th doesn’t command the type of money that he is seeking in my opinion. Yes, he is young, but all signs point to regression. Take a chance on Hamilton in LF for $25 a year for say 3 or 4 years and fill CF with a leadoff caliber cheaper or trade.
Scott
November 20th, 2012
8:33 am
Sure would like to Span in CF batting leadoff. That is the only way I am ok with Upton, if he plays LF and bats 6th. With that said playing LF and batting 6th or 7th doesn’t command the type of money that he is seeking in my opinion. Yes, he is young, but all signs point to regression. Take a chance on Hamilton in LF for $25 a year for say 3 or 4 years and fill CF with a leadoff caliber cheaper or trade.
CB
November 20th, 2012
8:37 am
TOBF,that was a loaded question.
Rick C
November 20th, 2012
8:40 am
Scott, the Braves only have about $25 million to spend. They give Hamilton that, they don’t have a CF or bench.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
8:40 am
I would like to have Span as the centerfielder too but what are you wanting to give up for him. It’s time to play a little GM. And don’t come in and say Hanson only. The twins would hang up the phone.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
8:42 am
Bourn struck out a lot and his second half was poor offensively.
I believe you’ll find that the only poor second half of his career, Jeff. Probably not indicative.
Couch Tater
November 20th, 2012
8:45 am
crazies all over the place last night. Who really is that dumb?
http://auburnauthority.com/2012/11/20/chizik-8th-highest-paid-coach-auburn-staff-3rd-highest/
Bravesfan77
November 20th, 2012
8:47 am
If were going to give a player 15 million per year, can’t we at least get a 5 tool player who is young and can get the job done every day. And his dad needs to be his hitting coach.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
8:47 am
I would like to have Span as the centerfielder too but what are you wanting to give up for him. It’s time to play a little GM. And don’t come in and say Hanson only. The twins would hang up the phone.
Probably overvaluing Span a little. He isn’t going to bring some top-of-the-rotation starter back in trade. Hanson is probably about right, with maybe some filler going both ways.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
8:48 am
If were going to give a player 15 million per year, can’t we at least get a 5 tool player who is young
Of course! Why didn’t Wren sign that guy??! It was so obvious! GAH!!
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
8:49 am
If were going to give a player 15 million per year, can’t we at least get a 5 tool player who is young and can get the job done every day.
That’s a $25MM player, in today’s market.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
8:51 am
I know we all say/think that Hamilton is gonna get near 25mil for his services. But it appears that there aren’t many teams in on him right now that can afford that. Any chance at all that his price drops to somthing closer to 17 or 18mil for up to 4 guaranteed? And will his price be directly affected by what Bourn gets?
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
8:54 am
Hanson and Spruill/Gilmartin for Span sounds right… though I’m sure they will want (the future #2
) Delgado
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
8:54 am
So the Braves have all this $ to spend finally and one of the best offensive bats in the game available and the fans don’t want anyone but second tier, journeymen players? No wonder the fans don’t come out to the games. Boy if the Braves signed guys like Ross, Pagan, Victorino I would be on the phone right away getting season tickets, and I live in Illinois. Come on guys our team hasn’t won a Championship since 95 and most of you want mediocre players? I don’t mind a guy like Span because we need a lead-off hitter but then you definitely to sign a guy like Hamilton to help offensively. He’s a game changer. I understand the uncertainty of a player like Upton but if the Braves staff see something in the guy then I’ll trust them…that’s what they get paid to do. He does a great combination of power and speed and I believe Walker and Fletcher can get him to look at more pitches and be more selective.
Carroll Rogers
November 20th, 2012
9:01 am
The Braves added catcher Christian Bethancourt and right-handers Zeke Spruill, David Hale, Aaron Northcraft and Cory Rasmus to 40-man roster, protecting them from the Rule 5 draft with is on Dec. 6 at the winter meetings in Nashville.
Halbert
November 20th, 2012
9:04 am
I am having a hard time understanding why BJ Upton would be Wren’s number one target free agent? I don’t see what it is about Uptons game that attracts Wren so much. Sure, he hits for power and has some speed, but that is all. He doesn’t hit for any sort of average, strikes out a TON, doesn’t get on base and really isn’t a great run producer. So what makes Wren decide to go all in for him? Because he is right handed? Wouldn’t Span and another high average hitter for left do better? Why not get a couple guys who put together good at bats consistently, rather than hit the occasional home run?
Couch Tater
November 20th, 2012
9:04 am
In today’s market….
“Last week News Corporation neared a deal with Yankees Global Enterprises to buy a 49 percent stake in the Yes Network, a regional New York sports network with a valuation of about $3 billion. A stake in Yes would add to News Corporation’s lineup of regional sports channels and contribute to its reported plans to introduce a national cable sports channel that could take on the Walt Disney Company’s ESPN.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/business/media/news-corporation-looks-at-potential-acquisitions.html?ref=media
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
9:06 am
and I believe Walker and Fletcher can get him to look at more pitches and be more selective.
Well, regardless of where he hits in the lineup, he’ll be surrounded by a much more potent lineup than in Tampa. He may have felt that he had to do something every AB down there, and that’s pretty much a guarantee of bad outs. Place him in a lineup where he doesn’t have to carry the load, and who knows? Maybe he relaxes enough to just let his talent play.
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
9:07 am
Please……NO BJ Upton!
Thank you.
Luman Harris
November 20th, 2012
9:08 am
GIve Hamilton whatever it takes, trade for Span …. boom, the Braves are almost as good as my ‘69 club.
Luman Harris
November 20th, 2012
9:08 am
GIve Hamilton whatever it takes, trade for Span …. boom, the Braves are almost as good as my ‘69 club.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
9:09 am
If Mixxo is against a BJ Upton signing, I start to feel better about him becoming a Brave.
Luman Harris
November 20th, 2012
9:09 am
Halbert – what makes you think BJ Upton is Wren’s No 1 target?
He always plays the misdirection game. And sometimes it works!
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
9:11 am
Thanks for the work CR.
“I think it’s highly unlikely, but like I said, I don’t mark him off the list until he goes elsewhere and we hear that it’s not going to work.”
–Frank Wren
That’s what I want to hear.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 20th, 2012
9:12 am
I’m 50/50 on Upton. I like his potential and there have been players over the years that underachieved early in their careers and turned it on later (Jose Bautista). So I like the idea of what Upton could be capable of. But I’m terrified of adding another .240 hitter with 150 K’s to this lineup if he doesn’t flip the switch. It’s a risk, but I guess free agents are always a risk. Sometimes a team has to take a shot at a high risk / high reward guy.
If he ends up a Brave, I’ll be excited and hope for the best. That’s all we can do as fans.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
9:12 am
Spekaing of CBet (OD backup? or would he split some time w/ Laird)… in he’s hitting .286/.310/.393/.703 (in 28 ABs) and is yet to strike out.
Why so few ABs for him anyway? I’d have him getting more playing time than any of the other 4 catchers
Ross Boys
November 20th, 2012
9:12 am
Hamilton will hit. 340 45 125 & Upton will hit. 270 29 100 so get Hamilton.
RC
November 20th, 2012
9:12 am
jeffrey d coming strong with the logic this morning! I like it!
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
9:13 am
Place him in a lineup where he doesn’t have to carry the load, and who knows?
You seem to be painting a picture of BJ coming to Atlanta and freaking out, pressing, pushing himself in his at bats to get something done, as each of those “big hitters” goes into their mid-season slumps.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
9:19 am
BJ Upton’s average won’t rise much imo. (babip) Only thing we can hope for is that he gets better pitch selection and takes more walks to remain valuable even when slumping (which he does for nearly 120 games). Outside of a good 30-40 game stretch when he gets hot, he’s about a .650-.700 hitter. Defense isn’t great either. 15mil is too big of a risk.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
9:20 am
jeffrey d coming strong with the logic this morning!
I’m the voice of reason the blog deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
9:22 am
You seem to be painting a picture of BJ coming to Atlanta and freaking out, pressing, pushing himself in his at bats to get something done, as each of those “big hitters” goes into their mid-season slumps.
Certainly a possibility, LOL. But if Heyward, Freeman, Uggla, and McCann are all in slumps at the same time, to the extent where Upton felt he had to carry the club, Braves are pretty much in the toilet, anyway, and it won’t matter how BJ Upton performs. We’ll call that one moot. On the other hand, if he deals with it like a rational player, he shouldn’t be anymore susceptible to that pressing than any of the other middle of the order bats. Surely you don’t think that having Heyward and Freeman in the order would have the same effect on Upton as seeing Drew Sutton (!) hit cleanup.
Maybe the security of a long-term deal frees him up to perform. Or maybe it makes him press.
Maybe a change of scenery turns his attitude. Or maybe he just gets lazier.
Maybe he breaks out. Or maybe he is what he’s recently shown.
Not questions I’d want to try to answer.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 20th, 2012
9:29 am
Ross Boys…”Hamilton will hit. 340 45 125 & Upton will hit. 270 29 100 so get Hamilton.”
Hamilton’s body is also starting to break down from all those years of damage. So for a 7 year contract, you’ll be paying for 2, maybe 3 good years followed by the inevitable decline, which probably involves Hamilton being on the DL most of the time. With Upton, there’s a strong chance you get more value out of the contract. But I guess it depends on your definition of value. Some may be okay with “going for it” in the next few years and then dealing with the consequences later, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
9:30 am
giancarlo sounds unrealistic but he is blistering the miami press and 3 or 4 latino up and comers might get lorias ears
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
9:30 am
“I think it’s highly unlikely, but like I said, I don’t mark him off the list until he goes elsewhere and we hear that it’s not going to work.”
–Frank Wren
That’s what I want to hear.
Was that on Bourn?
Dadgum.....
November 20th, 2012
9:33 am
I was going to post something but realize I have nothing of value to add.
Rock on…..as I leave myself wide open as a screen door
.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
9:33 am
Hamilton
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
9:33 am
I thought it was on Hamilton
richbrave
November 20th, 2012
9:33 am
“….The Braves added catcher Christian Bethancourt and right-handers Zeke Spruill, David Hale, Aaron Northcraft and Cory Rasmus to 40-man roster, protecting them from the Rule 5 draft with is on Dec. 6 at the winter meetings in Nashville…..”
Thanx CARROLL.
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
9:33 am
lemke if thats the case offer hamilton 30 mil each year for 2 years, 15 mil first year 15 mil second year and 30 million bonus if plays in 280 regular season games
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
9:33 am
Don’t screen doors usually automatically close on their own?
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
9:34 am
and make sure fg gives him plenty of rest
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
9:34 am
Christian Bethancourt and right-handers Zeke Spruill, David Hale, Aaron Northcraft and Cory Rasmus
Hale and Rasmus have futures as pen arms. I think Northcraft is a sidearmer with a good sinker, so that’s probably his place too. Zeke as a 4/5 potential starter. We have a lot of depth. Please make them trades, Frank.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
9:38 am
No upton go for hamilton!
Odelay
November 20th, 2012
9:38 am
BJ’s a talented, but flawed player in a saturated market. I don’t blame the Braves for being interested, and I won’t be mad if they sign him, but given the number of options available, the Braves have the upper hand in negotiations. There will be absolutely no excuses for an overpay of BJ Upton. Offer him something reasonable, but if he says no just go shopping elsewhere. They don’t have room in the budget for another Dan Uggla-type situation.
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
9:38 am
Lots of negative Karma last night. What the hell is the problem with BFS80’s? And why is he obsessed with Stanton’s name. I mean, who gives a shydt what he wants to be called, and why is it a problem? The explaination makes sense to me. And whose business is it anyway? Sheesh. And that’s the LEAST stupid thing said by BFS80’s last night.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
9:40 am
Plus hamilton would maybe put people in the stands, I am sorry but I doubt many people will wear Upton jerseys.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
9:42 am
That was very well said, Odelay
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
9:42 am
Someone said we could probably get Hamilton for 5 years at $18mil per. That ain’t happening….but if it were true, I wouldn’t give him a chance to change his mind. Then go get Span, and let’s go!
Lemke's Knuckler
November 20th, 2012
9:43 am
ncgary…”lemke if thats the case offer hamilton 30 mil each year for 2 years, 15 mil first year 15 mil second year and 30 million bonus if plays in 280 regular season games”
I’m sure Hamilton’s agent will jump at a 2 year contract with only half the money guaranteed. Geez.
Don
November 20th, 2012
9:45 am
You have got to be kidding:
Keep on signing players with high strike out totals – and you will keep failing.
About 170 strike outs – twice as many as an acceptable total.
Hitting less than .250 with an On Base Percentage of less than .300 – and a strike out total of about 170. This is absurd.
Hitters with high strike out totals usually do not hit the good pitchers or in close games or in game winning situations.
Don
November 20th, 2012
9:45 am
You have got to be kidding:
Keep on signing players with high strike out totals – and you will keep failing.
About 170 strike outs – twice as many as an acceptable total.
Hitting less than .250 with an On Base Percentage of less than .300 – and a strike out total of about 170. This is absurd.
Hitters with high strike out totals usually do not hit the good pitchers or in close games or in game winning situations.
Don
November 20th, 2012
9:45 am
You have got to be kidding:
Keep on signing players with high strike out totals – and you will keep failing.
About 170 strike outs – twice as many as an acceptable total.
Hitting less than .250 with an On Base Percentage of less than .300 – and a strike out total of about 170. This is absurd.
Hitters with high strike out totals usually do not hit the good pitchers or in close games or in game winning situations.
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
9:47 am
well 280 games is a pretty realistic number for a young man to play
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
9:48 am
Keep on signing players with high strike out totals – and you will keep failing
“Keep on”? When’s the last time the Braves signed a player with high strike out totals?
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
9:48 am
With the news coming out from some reporter on CBS Knobler that Upton may be the favoring Philly(not sure how he would know that) I say let them have him so they go all in on Hamilton. I know he is older but the guy can hit when he’s in there and it doesn’t matter if it’s a righty or lefty pitching. He’ll sell more tickets, get more fans to come out, make up for the loss of Chipper and Bourn especially if he can stay on the field which is his only question mark. Throw him in left to preserve his health and get a RH bat for CF or a Span type player. Call it an offseason. I don’t know the more I think about it, and the more time passes without an announcement of Upton signing with us I’m thinking this is what could happen. The way Wren keeps beating around the bush about Hamilton seems like something could be happening with him, especially since not too many teams are in on him like they would be in years past. Plus with everything he’s gone through I don’t believe he’ll sign in a big market city.
Rick C
November 20th, 2012
9:48 am
You have got to be kidding:
Keep on pressing “submit comment” – and you will keep posting.
braves for life
November 20th, 2012
9:49 am
Forget bourn and Upton. Both strike out way too much. Bourn struckout 155 times and Upton 169. Both have similar speed but Upton had more doubles and a lot more hrs. Neither are worth the $.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
9:52 am
Hitters with high strike out totals usually do not hit the good pitchers or in close games or in game winning situations.
Upton with RISP – .766 OPS
Upton with men on – .790 OPS
Upton with runner 3B LT 2 out – .813 OPS
Upton RISP 2 outs – .815 OPS
This would seem to belie your premise, at least for this particular player.
ALJ
November 20th, 2012
9:55 am
I rather have Pagan and he will be about 6 million dollars cheaper per year.
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
9:57 am
On the other hand, if he deals with it like a rational player, he shouldn’t be anymore susceptible to that pressing than any of the other middle of the order bats.
…
Maybe the security of a long-term deal frees him up to perform. Or maybe it makes him press.
Maybe a change of scenery turns his attitude. Or maybe he just gets lazier.
Maybe he breaks out. Or maybe he is what he’s recently shown.
Your previous post seemed to imply that BJ may not have dealt with it like a rational player while in Tampa and I don’t see those as the right questions.
I don’t think BJ was “worried” about long-term security while in Tampa and thus saw his OBP drop from .380+ to .290+
I am also highly suspect of this “he’s lazy” charge. That charge was laid at the feet of Andruw Jones his entire time with the Braves. It was bogus the entire time as well. (Fairly certain everyone bitching and moaning right now would love to have the best defensive CF in history who hits .263/.342/.497/.839 averaging 31 HR a year in CF)
The odds, the probabilities are, he’s the .242/.316/.420/.736 hitter he has been for the last 4 seasons more so than the .286/.384/.452/.836 he was for a brief period over half a decade ago.
There’s an outside chance, I suppose, that he re-taps into that “potential”. A very outside chance. I just wouldn’t bank on it. I wouldn’t even argue it as a reason to sign him. I highly doubt changing teams, leagues or even divisions is going to help him gain back 60+ points in on base percentage. Sign him if he’s the best option available, just don’t try to spin it as if he’s the best CF in the league, or a premium player. And try not to over pay the guy otherwise the most likely potential tapped is bust.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
9:57 am
Trade for Span or Fowler, sign Swisher, piss off scoots in doing so and let’s go play some winning baseball.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
9:59 am
No thanks on Hamilton at 25m a year. Where are the bench pieces coming from? I really like Hamilton but not for that amount.
chris watson
November 20th, 2012
10:00 am
four years/48 million would be THE MAX I would pay for Bourne. .270 hitter with little power who strikes out way too much. He led the NL in caught stealing last year so his speed is starting to slip. Towards the end of the contract he will certainly slow quite a bit more. I would not want this guy for more than 3 or 4 years. I will be suprised if Boras can land the contract he is looking for.
chase
November 20th, 2012
10:01 am
Getting BJ UPTON is a direct precursor to trading for JUSTIN UPTON.mark it down…If the Braves get one, they will get BOTH
MLB Hot Stove Rumors 11/20/12 « SprungOnSports
November 20th, 2012
10:01 am
[...] Acta are both candidates to become Gibbons’ bench coach. -Atlanta is pushing hard to sign B.J. Upton, with the Phillies seen as the biggest competition. -There’s still a 50-50 chance that David [...]
Ross Boys
November 20th, 2012
10:02 am
Sign Hamilton for 4 years not 7 years.
chase
November 20th, 2012
10:02 am
I really like the idea of re-signing ANDRUW JONES for a Bench role…RH power off the bench and good back up defense in LF, CF, RF and CHEAP!
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
10:03 am
Morning all!
I was thinking about Braves stuff last night and I guess I was curious….
My brain being fried and all, maybe someone can tell me the last time we signed a FA position player to what would be considered a sizeable contract (at the time)?
For some reason, Brian Jordan back in 99 sticks in my mind as the last one as I recall him signing a 5 year deal worth like 40M, but then he was traded after year 3
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
10:04 am
Your previous post seemed to imply that BJ may not have dealt with it like a rational player while in Tampa
Actually, it didn’t. It implied that a lineup with only Evan Longoria as the only other real offensive threat may have led to Upton attempting to do too much at the plate, and that being in a deeper offensive lineup (such as the Braves) should lessen the possibility that such a thing would occur.
In other words, it was very rational that Upton would feel more offensive pressure in TB, and also rational that he would be less likely to feel so in Atlanta.
chase
November 20th, 2012
10:04 am
The ONLY way I’d pay that much for HAMILTON is if the Braves could trade for DEXTER FOWLER or sign PAGAN for CF and move Hamilton to LF
P'cola Brave
November 20th, 2012
10:05 am
I think the Phillies are probably the favorite to sign BJ. The park is more hitter friendly and Phillies are usually willing to overpay for the guy they want. Don’t see Wren getting in a bidding war past a certain point.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
10:05 am
I don’t know, but somehow I think I’d take the knowledge base and expert opinions of Wren, Manno, Cox, Walker, and Fletcher over yours TP….
While I appreciate the opinion, I can’t see that many guys being completely sold on a guy if they didn’t believe they could help him
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
10:05 am
BJ has potential you say? Yes, his potential means being a .242/.316/.420/.736 hitter who is no more a lefty masher than 1 Brian McCann; hell, even Dan Uggla hits lefties as well as he does. Both outperform him vs. righties. And we’re even considering paying this guy more than those 2 because of some assumed “potential”? Give me a friggin break. He hasn’t gotten any better in his last 4 years, years that he was approaching his prime. He’s there now and now all of a sudden he’s gonna get better because of a team change? Why? Seriously, why is it gonna click for him all of a sudden. I’m not getting it. 15mil and a draft pick is too high a cost, esp. with the likelihood being higher that he is what he’s been for the last 4 years; heavens forbid he busts.
bwell
November 20th, 2012
10:06 am
I knew it! Going the cheaper route. Keep Bourn and get Upton too move Prado to third. Once again taking the cheaper route. Come on Time Warner spend some of those billions
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
10:06 am
In other words, it was very rational that Upton would feel more offensive pressure in TB, and also rational that he would be less likely to feel so in Atlanta.
That’s a completely irrational statement. ( :
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
10:07 am
Lew, a Swisher signing would result in disappointment, rather than anger. I’d just be sad that they didn’t catch the perpetrator before he filled the FO water cooler with mescaline.
Cold Stove Rumors...
November 20th, 2012
10:08 am
Braves reportedly have traded Dan Uggla to Mets for bats, 500 balls, 60 tees, and 300 batting gloves. Buster Olney says Braves got better end of trade. “I must say that is a lot of equipment to trade for a. 205 hitter that makes $12 million a year. Were those batting gloves made by Nike? Yikes”.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
10:08 am
That’s a completely irrational statement
Explain.
Josh
November 20th, 2012
10:09 am
Sign Greinke and throw every trade piece you have at Stanton!!!
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
10:10 am
I’d rather see Hanson back in our rotation than see BJ Uptonogood signed. At least 1 guy will be performing to his perceived potential. Not to mention that it won’t be hard to cut dies if/when he sukks.
richbrave
November 20th, 2012
10:12 am
The BRAVES have 36 on the current 40-man by my count which leaves room for more additions. Also on the list are JAIR JURRGENS, ANTHONY VARVARO, and PETER MOYLAN, three names i do not expect to be there come April.
Added this off-season to date
Pitchers
ZEKE SPRUILL RHSP
AARON NORTHCRAFT RHSP
DAVID HALE RHSP
CORY RASMUS RHRP
JUAN JAIME RHRP
Catchers
GERALD LAIRD
CHRISTIAN BETHANCOURT
Infielders
ERNESTO MEJIA
Outfielders
JORDAN SCHAFER
ROBERT FISH and ERIC CORDIER were outrighted to GWINNETT.
DAVID ROSS signed with the RED SOX
J. C. BOSCAN signed with the CUBS
LUIS DURANGO and IAN GAC with the ROYALS.
Of our FA from last season, I would sign REED JOHNSON, and CHAD DURBIN.
Of the minor leagers released maybe BUDDY CARLYSLE, JOSH KROEGER, FELIX PIE, JOSH WILSON, RUBEN GOTAY, and JOSE YEPEZ.
Furman Bitcher
November 20th, 2012
10:14 am
THIS GUY IS AN AVERAGE HITTER AT BEST. We already have a hitter like him on the team and his name is Uggla. This cannot be the best use of 15 million over 5 yrs. LOOK AT HIS SPLITS!
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
10:14 am
Felix Pie got signed by the Pirates, w/ invite to Spring Training, richbrave.
Hillbilly
November 20th, 2012
10:14 am
BJ has potential you say? Yes, his potential means being a .242/.316/.420/.736 hitter who is no more a lefty masher than 1 Brian McCann; hell, even Dan Uggla hits lefties as well as he does. Both outperform him vs. righties. And we’re even considering paying this guy more than those 2 because of some assumed “potential”? Give me a friggin break. He hasn’t gotten any better in his last 4 years, years that he was approaching his prime. He’s there now and now all of a sudden he’s gonna get better because of a team change? Why? Seriously, why is it gonna click for him all of a sudden. I’m not getting it. 15mil and a draft pick is too high a cost, esp. with the likelihood being higher that he is what he’s been for the last 4 years; heavens forbid he busts. -TOBF
Yes…what he said. ^
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
10:15 am
Signing Hamilton would not be the kiss of death that most of you seem to think it would be… although I wouldn’t stop there. I see absolutely not reason we couldn’t come up with some sort of trade with Texas bringing over both Gentry and Olt which of course would definitely allow us to spend the money on a guy like Hamilton without the fear of handcuffing the team for the future. Our bench would be strong enough with the likes of Janish, Laird, Schafer, Juan and Meji. There’s no reason to fret about the bullpen, we currently have the pieces for one of the best in the majors without making a move. If this played out this way, you can pretty much slate us for a long run into the PO.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
10:15 am
Why is there all this man love for Dexter Fowler?!
Furman Bitcher
November 20th, 2012
10:18 am
Sign Hamilton and put Costanza in left
richbrave
November 20th, 2012
10:18 am
TOBF:
Thanx man.
Where is a good reliable source for ML transactions that you don’t have to pay for?
Ricky Baby
November 20th, 2012
10:18 am
That was funny cold stove. But sadly its also true!
bravesfaninnc
November 20th, 2012
10:19 am
I wonder if there’s any type of package we could put together to convince the Angels to part with Mark Trumbo. He’s young, RH, has great power, and would be under the Braves control for a while. Then, we could sign a guy like Pagan to man CF.
CF Pagan
3B Prado
RF Heyward
LF Trumbo
1B Freeman
2B Uggla
C McCann
SS Simmons
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
10:20 am
You do not want Hamilton in CF… we’d still need to make at least one more move to solidify CF.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
10:22 am
bravesfaninnc, I’ve read where they have absolutely no interest in moving Trumbo.
Ricky Baby
November 20th, 2012
10:22 am
Trade some of those young A ball players for Marlins Stanton. Marlins dont need him as they rebuild.
jax
November 20th, 2012
10:23 am
-2012 BA -.246 – ???????
-
Braves need another lomg term $15,000,000.Player with a terrible Starter’s BA at.246 ??????
Get real -
bravesfaninnc
November 20th, 2012
10:23 am
AT – that’s a shame cause that’s exactly the kind of player the Braves need
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
10:24 am
richbrave: I go here http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/transactions
Lew
November 20th, 2012
10:24 am
bwell- “Come on Time Warner spend some of those billions.”
Who will they spend it on? They don’t own a baseball team anymore and have not for years.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
10:26 am
I’d like to see Hamilton in LF and I really think it’s possible we could do something like that… I just don’t think it’s probable.
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
10:27 am
Explain
I did. It was an emoticon.
But, anyway, to further an enjoyable conversation, I’d highlight this:
Given the premise that BJ may have been pressing in TB, I framed my initial response with as each of those [Braves] “big hitters” goes into their mid-season slump…
thuse leaving no real offensive threat standing in the Braves lineup… BJ, who is prone to press, would press in Atlanta. It is entirely possible the “big hitters” in Atlanta slump. It has happened in each of the past two seasons. The blog gets loaded down with comments about “pressing.” Hell it happens every year. It’s part of the game. And unfortunately it’s part of the blog dialogue. At any rate, the point was, BJ may be a man who presses when he should relax. Some ball players do just that, so perhpas that is his MO. So it is reasonable to posit that if at any period he feels a need to pick up the team, he’ll press because that is what he does.
Secondly, if the pressing premise is indeed true, then it would stand to reason he’d also be susceptible to that pressure, extra weight to preform for the contract, much like Uggla stated he felt…. come to a new team, sign a big contract, you want to earn it and prove you deserve it, you press, even if the other guys are not slumping. Ergo, if he is the type to put that pressure on himself to preform, and thus press, it is entirely reasonable to conclude his tenure in Atlanta will also contain pressing.
Ricky Baby
November 20th, 2012
10:29 am
Marlins are pathetic. They get tax payers to build new stadium then they get super stars and the next year get rid of them and become a AA team. Sad.
the truth...
November 20th, 2012
10:29 am
Hoping Upton is just a smoke screen to make the pursuit of a target with much less downside more “under the radar”……….
Upton and his massive strike outs as well as questionable chemistry impact …………..not to mention $15 million a year for a NON ALL STAR……is just crazy….
Something that we have seen from time to time is a kid like Simmons coming from AA straight to the Show and making an impact from the start. I’d like to see moe young prospects be given a shot to see how they react.
This “burying” prospects below AAA can be counter productive….give some kids a shot….
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
10:31 am
The Angles moving Trumbo would be like the Braves moving Heyward. Why would they ever do that?
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
10:31 am
The Angels, not the Angles
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
10:32 am
Hamilton in CF?
Yeah, that’s a laugher.
Also, BJ is a racist, showboating, THUG. Apparently some of you don’t remember his antics in an interleague game against us a couple years ago. How soon you forget. His brother OTOH, I’d love to have him.
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
10:32 am
the “conversation” last night started over someone saying they’d really like to see a strong push for MIKE Stanton, but we all know Wren would have to give up the farm for him from the awesome owner that is Loria. I do not much care for Stanton anymore once he joined the likes of Chad Johnson and Shawn “Puffy” Combs, as well as the artist formerly known as Prince in that rarified air of wierdo adult men who out of the blue change the name that they go by. It says a lot about someone’s ego when this happens, regardless of his mother’s love for Italian names. Then I get several well-meaning folks jumping on my opinion, defending another adult for doing something that even someone who actually knows the person would consider weird. Then I get 2 guys who obviously do not have kids attempting to give me PARENTING advice on a blog, so there you go, the “conversation” went quickly downhill. Crazy? Nope, sorry, just don’t appreciate that kind of treatment. Oh and jeffrey d, the POINT in the wide open screen door bit, is that even if closed, you can still SEE through it. Logic my hind end….
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
10:32 am
This “burying” prospects below AAA can be counter productive….give some kids a shot….
This team gets any younger, they’ll be back in the birth canal.
They are likely to be the youngest, or close to it, contender in MLB next year.
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
10:34 am
They are likely to be the youngest, or close to it, contender in MLB next year.
Sounds like a good reason to call up Old Man Gattis. ( :
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
10:35 am
Apparently some of you don’t remember his antics in an interleague game against us a couple years ago
So you’re saying the one game, out of 324, when he apparently murdered a white guy, should be the hallmark of how we judge this guy?
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
10:36 am
Sounds like a good reason to call up Old Man Gattis.
Veteran presence, LOL.
Tron
November 20th, 2012
10:36 am
Motel Braves : 2 vacancies.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
10:37 am
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/11/20/gerald-laird-gets-3-million-2-yr-deal-with-braves/
2 yrs, 3mil. Saved about 1.5mil to pass on to Greinke or Hamilton
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
10:38 am
Catcher Gerald Laird will get $3 million for his two-year deal with the Atlanta Braves, and could earn up to $750,000 in performance bonuses if he plays more than expected.
The deal pays Laird $1.5 million each of the next two seasons, with the chance to earn an additional $250,000 in 2013 and $500,000 in 2014 based on how many games he starts. He would receive $50,000 each for starting 80, 90, 100, 110 and 120 games next year, and $100,000 each if he reached those targets the following season.
bvillebaron
November 20th, 2012
10:40 am
Hillbilly:
Don’t have a problem if you don’t want Upton, but let’s cite correct statistics will you? Upton’s career averages are .255/.336/.422 and .758. He also averages 90 runs, 20 homers, 75 RBI and 39 steals per year. When it comes to homers, your comment that he hasn’t gotten any better is so far off base it is comical. His homer totals the last 4 years are 11, 18, 23 and 28. Sure as heck looks like improvement to me.
Hillbilly
November 20th, 2012
10:40 am
Why is there all this man love for Dexter Fowler?!
I haven’t even mentioned his name yet, so I’m not guilty of man-love, but if you look at the numbers, Fowler is trending upward in the last 4 years.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 20th, 2012
10:40 am
Furman Bitcher…”THIS GUY IS AN AVERAGE HITTER AT BEST. We already have a hitter like him on the team and his name is Uggla. This cannot be the best use of 15 million over 5 yrs. LOOK AT HIS SPLITS!”
I don’t think anyone is under the delusion that BJ Upton is an elite hitter right now. He’s had 4 very poor seasons in relation to his abilities and I think everyone would admit that. I don’t think anyone is going to use his splits over the last 4 years as an argument for why the Braves should sign him. It’s a high risk, high reward signing. I think BJ Upton has all the ability in the world to put up .300, 30 homer, 30 SB seasons over the life of a 5 year deal and play a solid center field. I’m pretty sure any argument for signing Upton will be based on potential and not past performance.
Don’t forget Jose Bautista was a career .240 hitter with a .730 OPS up through his age 28 season before something clicked and he became the elite hitter he is today. I don’t think BJ has the same power potential, but he definitely has the skills to be one of the top center fielders in the game. And wouldn’t it be something if he achieved up to his potential and the Braves had 2 legitimate 5-tool players in the middle of this order for the next half decade.
The Braves can’t afford any $25m/year guys, so if you’re looking for the Braves to only sign “sure-bets” then don’t hold your breath.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
10:41 am
CF. Gentry
3rd. Prado
RF. Heyward
LF. Hamilton
1st. Freeman
2nd. Uggla
C. McCann
SS. Simmons
P. Hudson/Medlen/Minor/Maholm/Hason/Teheran/Beachy
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
10:42 am
“Why is there all this man love for Dexter Fowler?!”
I heard one of our ‘experts’ say he was horrible in CF.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 20th, 2012
10:44 am
TennesseePaul…”Sounds like a good reason to call up Old Man Gattis.”
I’m on that train.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
10:44 am
McCann’s batting 7th?
Isaac
November 20th, 2012
10:44 am
Why not bring back Costanza to play CF? Then you sign Hamilton which brings some pop to the lineup along with some excitement to the team to sale some tickets after losing Chipper. You may be left hand heavy but you have arguably one of the best line ups top to bottom with Costanza leading off.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
10:45 am
His HR totals… please. And that was my comment B’Ville. I don’t care about those career numbers… he had 2 insanely good years to start, he hasn’t come close to that since. He’s had 4 years of mediocrity. HRs don’t cure everything.
Interesting comment I came across….
Intrigued by Upton. Food for thought (2012 season):
the following lists: k%; SO; BB%; avg; obp; slg; wOBA
Player A: 26.7%; 168; 14.9%;.220; .348; .384; .325
Player B: 26.7%; 169; 7.1%; .246;.298; .454; .323
Player A is Dan Uggla.
Player B is BJ Upton.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
10:46 am
Catcher Gerald Laird will get $3 million for his two-year deal with the Atlanta Braves, and could earn up to $750,000 in performance bonuses if he plays more than expected.
Hopefully, McCann won’t suffer any “unfortunate accidents” if Laird gets close to his performance bonus next year. Just kidding, of course.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 20th, 2012
10:46 am
Isaac…”Why not bring back Costanza to play CF? Then you sign Hamilton”
Maybe Hamilton can testify to Jose and help him kick his bat-licking addiction.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
10:48 am
Jose and help him kick his bat-licking addiction.
That looks genetic to me.
One more reason to keep him away from children and pregnant women. Might be catching.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
10:49 am
This sucks…I wish something would happen already. Just out of nowhere a headline that reads:
Braves sign Josh Hamilton-5 years 90 million with an option for 6th year.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
10:50 am
jeffrey d, Freeman and McCann would be pretty much interchangable. But that’s a pretty scary lineup.
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
10:50 am
BFS80s – What is wrong with you? Why do you care if Stanton wishes to be known by his REAL name? Is it really a problem for you…and is it really any of your business. You are sounding like a neurotic obscessive fool. Give it rest, man.
Isaac
November 20th, 2012
10:51 am
Am I missing something with Costanza? Is he not a fit with the Braves?
Lemke's Knuckler
November 20th, 2012
10:52 am
I’d prefer to sign Pagan or trade for Span, then left Gattis handle the left field duties, and save that extra money to lock up a few of these young guys (Medlen, Heyward and Freeman) and have some bank available for a mid-season trade. But I’m not a “go for it” kind of guy, and I really like Gattis and think he’s the long term answer for the power right-handed bat to hit cleanup between Heyward & Freeman. I’m sure I’m premature with that, but I have a really good feeling about this guy.
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
10:53 am
Pagan will stay with the Giants.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
10:53 am
So many complain about Uggla and his lack of performance. Upton would get ripped to shreds if he produces just the avg he has over the last 3 seasons. The lack of obp is my biggest concern about Upton.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 20th, 2012
10:54 am
Isaac…”Am I missing something with Costanza? Is he not a fit with the Braves?”
First off, you’re missing and “n” in his name. And second off, he is a perfect fit for the Braves…the Gwinnett Braves.
Hillbilly
November 20th, 2012
10:54 am
Don’t have a problem if you don’t want Upton, but let’s cite correct statistics will you?
I will when I cite any statistics at all. If you will look closer, the italicized part of my post was a copy and paste of TOBFs previous post. I included it to show what I was replying to. Forgive me for not checking his math, but the premise is the same. I wouldn’t say it’s comical. His home run total is improved, yes, no doubt…but his AVG, OBP, SLG, and OPS for each of those 4 years are nearly all below his career averages (.759 OPS in 2011 – career .758) I don’t consider that improvement and especially not worth $15 mill and a draft pick.
And while we’re citing correct stats, Upton has never scored 90 runs in a season. What you cited was his 162 game average, which is an amount of games that he has never played.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
10:54 am
Shaun ………..
What the H$$$ are you talking about? We’re not looking at getting an All Star in Upton…..?
You want to pay $15 million a year for 5 years for a non-all star player???????
He could be in all-star. Also I don’t think folks realize how much wins cost on the free agent market. If you look at the going rate in recent years and Upton’s career performance, you’ll see that $15M a year for Upton is not unreasonable.
Also have to disagree about Francouer being the “worst player in baseball” or what ever you called him….
Francoeur was definitely one of the worst players who got as much playing time as he did in 2012. At best Francoeur is an okay platoon outfielder.
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
10:55 am
ralieghbravefan, what’s the matter with you? why are you acting so crazy worrying over someone else’s opinion about something that has absolutely nothing to do with you? you’re sounding like a neurotic obsessive fool. Give it a rest man…
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
10:56 am
Isaac – Constanza is probably a better fit than Costanza. You are missing something either way. One is a career AAAA ball player, the other is a bald fictional character.
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
10:58 am
BFS80s – I’m very comfortable with my place on this blog vs yours.
stamper
November 20th, 2012
10:58 am
Okay… so here’s the thing. We already have one of the best left fielders in baseball in Prado. Why don’t we just keep him there??? Sure he’d rather play third, but it’s not like he’s miserable in left field. The dude just wants to play. Period. Keep him in left. It’s the easiest decision to make.
Our sleeper signing should be to make a play for Jeff Keppinger. He’s solid on both sides of the ball, won’t cost too much money, and always makes contact. Then platoon him and Francisco at third. Their combined offensive production should be about equivalent to what we got from Chipper in 2012,
As for center field, unless we can get Span or Fowler, our priorities in terms of signing should go… Bourn, Pagan, Victorino, Hamilton, Upton. If we sign Keppinger, we should have more than enough money to sign any of those above named players.
Let’s be real about our team for a minute… When was the last time we made a move for more than one premium free agent in one winter? It’s not in our DNA.
Anyway, provided we sign Keppinger, regardless of whichever center fielder we sign, we’re not going to be financially hamstrung. Thus, if we need to make any moves during the deadline, for pitcher, bullpen, bench, etc, we’ll still have plenty of wiggle room.
Speaking of bench, this particular deal leaves us plenty of room to improve our bench quality.
1. Bourn/Victorino/Pagan/Upton
2. Prado
3. Heyward
4. Freeman
5. Uggla
6. McCann
7. Keppinger/Francisco
8. Simmons
9. -pitcher-
Sign Keppinger. Have him and Francisco platoon third… but mostly play Keppinger.
Keep Prado in left. Sorry Prado, but it’s all part of the greater good.
Re-sign Bourn. Pay whatever it takes to keep him. Bottom line, he’s the best defensive center fielder available, and he probably will remain as such for the next 4 years…
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
10:59 am
why are you acting so crazy worrying over someone else’s opinion about something that has absolutely nothing to do with you? you’re sounding like a neurotic obsessive fool.
You could say the same about you obsessing over Stanton’s name change. In his opinion, it was the best thing to do for him. And it has absolutely nothing to do with you.
stamper
November 20th, 2012
11:00 am
(disregard the extra stuff at the bottom… i started to ramble then forgot to hit delete)
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
11:00 am
the fact that ANYONE cares about their place on a BLOG speaks volumes guys, seriously…
BravesFanSince80s
November 20th, 2012
11:03 am
it’s interesting to me that so many on here are OBVIOUSLY obsessed with getting the last word in on any subject that they’d care to argue over and yet they want to make the other guy out to be the obsessive one. I spoke my opinion about a player and had to defend my position, end of story, for me that is, you guys I’m sure will continue the “vitriol” to abuse one of the silly blog favorites…
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
11:05 am
OOOOOOOOOOOOOO…that hurt!
Lew
November 20th, 2012
11:05 am
Neurotic obsessive fool? Nah, none of that ever goes on here. Never. Not at all.
The hole in Uggla'a bat
November 20th, 2012
11:06 am
You guys need to lay off. I am working hard in off season. I should have my biceps around 26 inches by spring. I am also over 500lbs on bench press. I just recently squated 575lbs and my head is now a size 8 and 1 fourth. I am expecting a big year. Me, Mac, and BJ are gonna be off the chains with guys in scoring position.
Dan Uggla
RC
November 20th, 2012
11:06 am
Also, BJ is a racist, showboating, THUG. - Mixxo
Seriously? You are going to refer to someone else as racist, and then use “THUG” as your third adjective? Do you even realize the utter hypocrisy of that statement?
You can probably show me evidence of Upton showboating at some point….which is true of roughly 50% of the players in the league. But unless you’ve got some concrete evidence to support calling someone “racist” or a “THUG” (however the hell you’d define that), you are probably better just not talking for a while.
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
11:06 am
For you, it’s NEVER “end of story”.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
11:07 am
Hamilton’s body is also starting to break down from all those years of damage.
Yeah, he’s Chipper but with evident emotional and mental hangups. But let’s have Wren pay Hammy a fortune to play part time in Atlanta. Throw in a counselor, too.
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
11:07 am
RC – Just consider the source, and let it go.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
11:09 am
you are probably better just not talking for a while.
If “a while” for Mixxo is until the earth is swallowed by a roaming galactic black hole, I’m good with that.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
11:09 am
I have a hard time believing that Upton is worth $15 million per year for five years. I know there are stats showing his value might justify such a contract. It is just that the ole “pit in the stomach” test is not on board. Then again, such a test furthers my lack of qualification to be a GM.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
11:12 am
I have a hard time believing that Upton is worth $15 million per year for five years.
Rest assured, you’re not alone in this big universe, Tumbledown.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
11:12 am
i dont hate the idea of upton, i just cant wrap my brain around it as the right fit for atlanta. he plays CF, but he doesnt hit well enough to leadoff, or to bat in the middle of the lineup. he really need to be hitting 7th, probably. thus, it doesnt seem like the right fit to me. i think swisher makes more sense, if your gonna lose a draft pick over it. shish hits for power and gets on base enough to keep the lineup moving. he would actually work as a cleanup hitter.
RC
November 20th, 2012
11:12 am
raleighbravefan,
Yeah, that’s probably for the best. Most dumb comments are easy to ignore, because while stupid they are generally harmless. When a guy comes on here spewing trash like that though it’s hard not to call him out for it.
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
11:13 am
“Seriously? You are going to refer to someone else as racist, and then use “THUG” as your third adjective? Do you even realize the utter hypocrisy of that statement?” RC
Thugs aren’t defined by race alone you idiot.
Oh, and talk about hypocisy…. :facepalm:
Don
November 20th, 2012
11:14 am
Most everyone talks about how the Braves made a huge, huge mistake in securing Uggla with his low BA and extremely high strike out totals – and I agree.
Now some of you are approving the idea of signing Upton who also hits below 250 and also has strike out totals more than twice as high as what should be acceptable – about 170 strikeouts. BUT WAIT – Although this doesn’t make up for his other limitations, at least Uggla has a decent On Base Percentage. But Upton is TERRIBLE there ALSO with an On Base Percentage of less than .300 to go with his terible B.A. and terrible strike out totals.
To consider him is absurd. We do not need a second player in the batting order approaching 200 strikeouts – at any price.
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
11:14 am
*hypocrisy
lol
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
11:14 am
You guys need to lay off. I am working hard in off season. I should have my biceps around 26 inches by spring. I am also over 500lbs on bench press. I just recently squated 575lbs and my head is now a size 8 and 1 fourth. I am expecting a big year. Me, Mac, and BJ are gonna be off the chains with guys in scoring position.
Dan Uggla
Big biceps do not a hitter make… but it may make Dan the cover of “Bicep” magazine or somesuch.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
11:14 am
I’m just excited about the possibilities this off season possesses. For once, we can be players on any front.
single white dove
November 20th, 2012
11:15 am
Im tired of people talking about leadoff hitter. We need power. Upton would have better chance for that then bourne…
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
11:16 am
Most everyone talks about how the Braves made a huge, huge mistake in securing Uggla with his low BA and extremely high strike out totals
You mean, “most everyone at my house”, don’t you?
RC
November 20th, 2012
11:16 am
I have a hard time believing that Upton is worth $15 million per year for five years.
I sort of feel the same way, but then I think about what free agent contracts are likely to look like next year, when every team has an extra $30 million to play with. Salaries are getting ready to go up significantly in the next few years, so while $15 million is a lot of money, it’s probably not as much relative to what we’ve seen the past few years.
I REALLY hope that this offseason results in LT contracts for Prado and Heyward (and wouldn’t mind some others) before the market explodes next offseason.
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
11:16 am
raleighbravefan
Another genius among us.
:facepalm:
Carroll
November 20th, 2012
11:16 am
Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’ve said it before and will say it again…as a resident of the Tampa area, and a follower of the Rays as my second team, Upton is a poor choice. He is Andruw Jones without the charming smile….an enigma, a strikeout machine, a non-clutch performer, attitude issues. Please nooooo!! At what point do we learn from the Giants, the A’s, and the cardinals of the world who enjoy success while the big spenders of the world (the Angels, marlins, Yankees, BoreSox, et al) flounder. Spending big does not = success. Doing due diligence and spending the appropriate amt for a player who fits your specific needs (i.e. on-base machines), while retaining the flexibility to address needs as you go along, is the way to go!
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
11:17 am
DAP and Tumbledown- Excellent posts.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
11:17 am
Would you rather have Bourn at 5 yrs $18m a year or Upton at 5 yrs and 14-15m a year? Taking in all factors, age, power, obp and defense. I am guessing that is what we are looking at for those 2.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
11:18 am
To consider him is absurd. We do not need a second player in the batting order approaching 200 strikeouts – at any price.
Ergo, Wren is absurd. Not buying that, though I don’t favor the Braves signing Upton. And B.J. hasn’t hit the vaunted 200 mark in strike outs… yet. He was about thirty off the mark this past season. But better things to come for Upton, Donny. 200 Ks isn’t out of the question.
RC
November 20th, 2012
11:19 am
He is Andruw Jones without the charming smile….
So he’s just one of the best defensive CF in major league history with 50 HR power? (I know that Upton is none of those things, just taking a chance to point out how awesome Andruw Jones was)
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
11:23 am
I’m beginning to think that the players the Braves should acquire do not actually exist, if the tenor of the blog is to be believed, LOL.
cdog
November 20th, 2012
11:24 am
B J would be a better leadoff man than michael bourne. bourne wants to be a homerun hitter at leadoff.he has no clue what a leadoff hitter”s role is so whoever they get would be better than bourne.
the rev al
November 20th, 2012
11:24 am
This is all just window dressing for the fans sake. No way the Braves are going to step up and pay to sign for an Upton. Bank on it!
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
11:25 am
Guthrie signed thru 2015 by Royals… 1 less pitcher they need from us. Teheran and Hanson for Myers or Gordon.
Don
November 20th, 2012
11:26 am
Uggla, Upton, and Big Mac – all three players hitting in the .220s to .240s and two of them approaching 200 strike outs each.
And the three of them taking up ALMOST HALF (almost 50%) of the PAYROLL.
IS THIS A JOKE.
And we wonder why the Braves do not win.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
11:27 am
Three years for Jeremy Guthrie? Yikes, Dayton.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
11:30 am
Uggla, Upton, and Big Mac – all three players hitting in the .220s to .240s and two of them approaching 200 strike outs each.
That would be really bad, if they were replaying the 2012 season. But they aren’t, so it’s not.
I expect this kind of thing from the usual blog numbletards, but it seems to be getting more pervasive the last few days.
Carroll
November 20th, 2012
11:31 am
RC: Yes BJ is great defensively (when he wants to be), much like Andruw Jones. And While AJ had some good offensiive numbers here and there, I absolutely despised him as a hitter for all the same reasons I listed about BJ above–high K’s, no clutch hitting, doesn’t run out hits, the appearance that he doesn’t even care and doesn’t even work the pitcher for a productive AB–always swinging for the fences..there was even a game a year or two ago where Longoria almost got into a fist fight with him due to frustration over these issues. With that said, as you pointed out, BJ is not even half the hitter AJ was. That just underscores my point. thank you
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
11:32 am
scoots – I sing tenor. Does that make me the “tenor of the blog”?
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
11:33 am
Guthrie, Santana, Chen, Hochevar, Volstad, Mendoza…..
Duffy and Paulino coming off of TJ surgery. Odorizzi a possibility as is Montgomery, Lamb, Dwyer although I don’t think they are readu yet. Royals still need another arm – and a top one at that.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
11:33 am
And we wonder why the Braves do not win.
Donny, stay moored to reality, would ya? The Braves won 94 games in 2012 and went to the post season. Yes, they sucked wind in the WC game, but that’s another story.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
11:33 am
I’m beginning to think that the players the Braves should acquire do not actually exist, if the tenor of the blog is to be believed, LOL.
He exists, thy name is STANTON!!
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
11:34 am
I sing tenor. Does that make me the “tenor of the blog”?
Some posters make me want to give them the kick that makes them sing soprano.
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
11:34 am
Gotta go….later friends…and others, too.
Fols
November 20th, 2012
11:36 am
I wouldn’t exactly say the Braves do not win…….they do not win when it matters most but there are a lot of teams out there that would die for a chance to make that wild card game (that should never be considered post-season).
I really hope the Braves reach out for a Span type of player for CF, give up a pitcher and make them take Hanson in the process. If Prado moves to 3B we should be putting a lot of resources into a LF power bat.
Years of being a ‘proper’ team under Chipper’s spot in the line-up…well that didnt’ bring in the championships and it seems to have lost excitement since the fans are bored with that era.
Hamilton batting 4th in this line-up might send a pulse through Atlanta’s clubhouse.
Span
Prado
Heyward
Hamilton
Freeman
Uggla
Mac
Simmons
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
11:36 am
I’m beginning to think that the players the Braves should acquire do not actually exist, if the tenor of the blog is to be believed, LOL.
Well, perfect is the enemy of the good, as they say. But some good ain’t so good (Upton, for example).
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
11:38 am
Some posters make me want to give them the kick that makes them sing soprano
And what if they already can sing that?
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
11:39 am
Royals still need another arm – and a top one at that.
And I think they know that. But it wouldn’t make sense to just gut their young position players to get one. They still have beaucoup young pitching coming, and they don’t even need all of it to prove out. That won’t make much difference, if they’ve traded too many bats by the time their pitching coalesces.
That’s why it doesn’t make sense for them to trade one of their guys for Hanson, for example. Not after picking up Santana and signing Guthrie. The middle of the rotation is covered. They need a stud.
Mitchie-sand
November 20th, 2012
11:41 am
Hahahaha…. Bicep magazine….
jim
November 20th, 2012
11:41 am
If the choice boils down to Upton or Schafer in CF next year, I would much prefer Schafer. He is a better defender, better baserunner and is MUCH cheaper and much more short term. Schafer brings an attitude to the playing field which the Braves could use — Upton apparently brings an attitude to the clubhouse that they don’t need. Upton strikes out as much as Schafer and has a barely higher OBP. At $15 million for 5 Upton inhibits the Braves ability to lock up their young talent. At Schafer’s cost and tenure, the Braves have a lot of flexibility for other moves. Upton is right handed and has some power, but isn’t that what Uggla was supposed to provide. I’d rater see Schafer in center and Gattis in left than Upton in center and ? in left. The Braaves have enough big K guys in the lineup now — Uggla, Heyward, Freeman, Francisco, McCann — we don;t need another one guys loike Scutaro and Pagan who put the ball in play carried the Giants to the WS. Is there a message there Frank?
varoadrunner
November 20th, 2012
11:42 am
@ Shawn
Clearly you are an Upton fan and for that reason only, you are attempting to “sell” him to Brave’s fans. Ok, everyone does that. I personally would never obligate $75m to a player with Upton’s stats. As far as your comparison of Upton be better defensively than Uggla, My grandson is better offensively and defensely than Uggla …just can’t hit it as far as Uggla when he connects. Since our pitchers are developing into what could become a Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz type staff (not there yet) I would not “invest” in Uptons…..He’s not a game changer. Someone said Hamilton…..He could be a game changer but would come with huge question marks.
One more thing, I think I’ve made myself clear of my feelings on Uggla as it relates to “playing” baseball, but I would put Uggla at the top of my list of Classy guys. He’s surely seems to be a team player. Just a poor signing.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
11:46 am
raleighbravefan
November 20th, 2012
10:53 am
Pagan will stay with the Giants.
Thank God. And the sooner the better, I don’t want this guy anywhere near Turner Field in a Braves uniform.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
11:46 am
But some good ain’t so good (Upton, for example).
What if all their trade conversations regarding a RH thumper have borne no more fruit than a dead grapevine? What if they have determined that the trade route for that need simply doesn’t exist, at a price they can stomach? Is there no scenario in which Upton appears to be the best choice?
Don
November 20th, 2012
11:47 am
ncscoots, What reason is there to think that they will be better in 2013 – except perhaps for Big Mac
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
November 20th, 2012
11:47 am
When it becomes apparent that the Braves are more concerned with saving dollars (Laird’s 3 million 1 year over Ross’s 2 year 6 million contract), then the transparency of why myself and many other fans can take the fortunes of this team with a grain of salt.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
11:48 am
Don’t understand the talk about Upton being a bad clubhouse guy, if that was the case, I couldn’t see why Tampa hung onto him as long as they have when there’s been chances to move and acquire very good pieces in return… specially since they had Jennings waiting in the wings. It just doesn’t add up.
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
11:48 am
3 years for Guthrie … if it is a low AAV, might not be a bad pick up. He pitches well, they could trade him. That AAV is the kicker.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
11:49 am
Scoots-
To some ppl no….some would rather trot Constanza out there…
Or Dexter Fowler….or God forbid we keep Prado in the OF and bring in Jeff Keppinger….
Um excuse me…..WHAT?!
I’ve come to find that some like to b*tch or moan no matter what happens….
I take it from what I’ve seen this morning, you also are on the For Upton wagon
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
11:50 am
TP-
5M in 13; 11M in 14; 9M in 15….
Not what I’d consider a great deal…but hey, theyre still the Royals….and Moore is still, well, the reason why he never sniffed the Braves job….
DAP
November 20th, 2012
11:51 am
scoots I’m beginning to think that the players the Braves should acquire do not actually exist, if the tenor of the blog is to be believed
there will always be at least one person to crap on whatever player is mentioned. most people offer alternatives if they say they dont like a certain player though. me, im just not seeing how upton fits the needs on our lineup. im sure they can make it work, but it seems like there are more logical choices out there.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
11:51 am
He’ll earn $5MM in 2013, $11MM in 2014 and $9MM in 2015.
8.33 million AAV. Not terrible. Good for him to get that third year.
Good lord, players are going to get paid this winter.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
11:52 am
Oh, and for someone who was “supposedly” hated in Tampa….
He sure has gotten a whole lot of Twitter mail stating how many ppl loved him there and how theyre sad to see him go…
The guy got a standing O in his final game there….
Yeah, he’s about as hated as Jason Heyward
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
November 20th, 2012
11:54 am
Jeff Keppinger would be a great addition……….
To the Bravos bench.
p.s. he just had a career season at age 32, enough said.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
11:54 am
@P town, you are exactly right. Wren could bring in Hamilton and keep Bourn and make a trade for David Wright and some on here would complain out of their mind about that. And 90% of those that are over the top negative would still complain if the Braves win the World Series.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
11:56 am
you also are on the For Upton wagon
Actually, he’d be down around my fourth or fifth choice as an acquisition, and for all the reasons that plenty of folks have already mentioned. He’s a high-risk guy for the years and dollars, and there’s no getting around that.
But the surest way to go broke in a card game is to never play a hand. If the team rates low their chances at acquiring a player that might be more pleasing to the blog
, then Upton might be the hand they have get their chips in on.
Enquiring Minds Want To Know
November 20th, 2012
11:56 am
Is there no scenario in which Upton appears to be the best choice?
I’m sure this is a minority opinion, but I’d sooner go through next year with Gattis in left and Schafer in center than see Wren sign the wrong guys to stupid contracts. As we’ve seen, that can hamstring the club for years. No more Derek Lowes please. The Braves don’t have the resources to recover from that the way the Yankees and Phils do.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
11:58 am
What if all their trade conversations regarding a RH thumper have borne no more fruit than a dead grapevine? What if they have determined that the trade route for that need simply doesn’t exist, at a price they can stomach? Is there no scenario in which Upton appears to be the best choice?
Good question there, scoots.
I think there are times when simply saying “no” is the best option, to decline what’s available because the options are too narrow.
Five years of Upton because no other good options exist? I’d rather have the Braves jerry-rig the outfield for a while, save the money, and continue the search for better alternatives.
jim
November 20th, 2012
11:59 am
The only saving grace in this bad courtship is that if the offers are comparable, Upton would much more likely go with the Phillies. The ballpark is much more conducive to his power, and it is much more fun playing before an enthusiastic sellout nightly than the rows of empty seats and quiet crowds at the Ted. Of course if Upton puts up those Tampa Bay numbers in Philly that same crowd can become a whole lot less enthusiastic.
In making all these wish lists, fans should realize that 1) Atlanta is not that attractive a FA destination anymore — Cox is not the manager and Ted’s checkbook is a lot thinner and otherwise engaged; and 2) The available trading chips that the Braves have are not all that attractive– Teheran, Hanson have lost a lot of their previous value and Gilmartin and Spruil never had that much. The Braves have mined some great talent from their system recently — Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Medlen, Venters, Simmons, Beachy, Minor, but there isn’t a lot left to bring back the names that are on many of these wish lists.
Turtsnap
November 20th, 2012
11:59 am
Sign Upton, get Denard Span, and we are all set!
Fols
November 20th, 2012
11:59 am
You roll out Gattis in left and Schafer in CF and you might as well roll out free season tickets because you would be playing for 2014. You think the blog is bad now….yikes.
I have a feeling we are more involved with the trade aspect and will allow others to pursue free agency.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
12:00 pm
I’d bet Paul Maholm could get a three year deal in the $30 million range if he was a free agent this offseason.
PMC
November 20th, 2012
12:00 pm
Sigh…. what offense does BJ Upton bring to this soft hitting lack of run scoring team for all that money???
That said, This is due dilligence. Wren is just making sure he’s got options
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
12:01 pm
I’m sure this is a minority opinion, but I’d sooner go through next year with Gattis in left and Schafer in center than see Wren sign the wrong guys to stupid contracts.
I’m pretty sure the majority would be the ones with pitchforks and torches.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
12:02 pm
I do not want to see Schafer anywhere near in the starting lineup. He barely hit over 200 for the Astros. Talking about head cases, he is the poster child. Let’s see if he matures mentally. Have him coming off the bench or in Gwinnett but far far away from starting lineup.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
12:04 pm
Scoots-
Good point there…..I mean frankly, I’m just happy theyre looking at spending some $$$ and not pocketing it….
I mean cmon guys….look at the grass is greener theory…..
After all, we could be the Marlins
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
12:04 pm
Sign Upton, get Denard Span, and we are all set!
For what? A party?
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:06 pm
I wouldn’t be so certain that the Phillies are going to oputbid anyone this winter.
They have several holes to fill also and still have a fortune tied up in pitching, with Halladay not looking to healthy much of last year – including at the end, they have a sparse farm system after making all those deals for the “Four Aces” that didn’t quite work out how they’d hoped, Utley not getting younger or healthier and a lot of games to make up.
They’ll likely be improved this year, but might not have as much as people believe they do to spend their way back to where they were.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
12:06 pm
PMC-
Hate to burst your bubble but bringing in a guy for a complete tour of ALL facilities and then taking him to Ruth Chris is not due diligence….
They actually really want BJ Upton
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
November 20th, 2012
12:08 pm
Upton struck out more than Dan Uggla in 2012.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
12:09 pm
p.s. he just had a career season at age 32, enough said.
Willingham at 33. Same thing!
If Upton is all that the FO can get, then so be it. Wouldn’t be happy, but I’ll hope that the AAV isn’t insane (like under 13mil) and that we can trade him later if/when necessary. I’d rather wait for 2014 and get Pence!
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
12:11 pm
We learned of the deal last Thursday, but now we know the money: Gerald Laird will get $3 million for his two years with the Braves. There are incentives which could get him an extra $750K.
Those incentives are based on games started. Worth noting that if Laird earns all of his incentive money it will mean that Brian McCann didn’t make it back from his shoulder surgery which means paying Laird three quarters of a million is the least of their problems.
I know this isn’t the most newsworthy post ever, so I’ll add something to it: my son just said “Dad, was there an actor named Michael Jordan?” I’ve been a parent for nearly nine years, but I’m still not quite sure what to do with questions like that.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
12:11 pm
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
KC is two-thirds of its way to acquiring the veteran starting pitching it aimed for. Their plan is to trade minor-leaguers to get last SP.
Royals and Rays match up very well for James Shields.
bvillebaron
November 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan:
Okay we agree to disagree. Given their interest in B.J. Upton, apparently the general managers for the Phillies and the Nationals are as clueless as Wren. I for one think Upton would be a good sign for the Braves because he is a right handed power bat who averages more than 30 steals per season, plays good defense, just turned 28 last August and would be signed as a free agent.
P.S. Hillbilly: You were right, Upton was projected to average 90 runs over a 162 game season and never scored 90 in any given season, only 89 in 154 games in 2010 and 86 in 129 games in 2007.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
I think the Phillies are close to Yankees territory, in that they’re expected to compete every season. Forget rebuilding. The pressure’s on the Phils after last season to contend. I think team brass will spend generously to bring in the players they think they need in order to get Phils back in the running.
Whether its Bourn or Upton, I think the Phils will pay to get one or the other.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
12:13 pm
The only saving grace in this bad courtship is that if the offers are comparable, Upton would much more likely go with the Phillies. The ballpark is much more conducive to his power, and it is much more fun playing before an enthusiastic sellout nightly than the rows of empty seats and quiet crowds at the Ted. Of course if Upton puts up those Tampa Bay numbers in Philly that same crowd can become a whole lot less enthusiastic.
Those are valid points. And as each day passes without a decision many of you on here will probably be happy with the decision when it is finally made. I keep thinking if he was so talkative, loved the meeting he had with everyone on the Braves side, sees how interested the Braves are in him by bringing him in and saying he is their #1 all over the media outlets yet he still hasn’t decided is not a good thing. In fact, some reporter from CBS thinks he is leaning towards Phillthies right now. If I’m a team and I hear that I don’t wait for the guy, and say good riddance and throw all my chips in on Hamilton and start calling teams for trades.
Wren, I think, likes to work quickly and play the waiting game especially with the Winter meeting coming up. I think he wants to know what he needs to do for the team by then and it all hinges on a FA signing. If it’s Upton then you look for a LF’er to trade for, preferably a lead off guy like a Gordon or Span. If it’s Hamilton, then I think he would trade for a CF’er, which could be Span as well except that’s a lot of LH bats in the line up even though Span and Hamilton hit lefties well.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
12:13 pm
I wouldn’t be so certain that the Phillies are going to outbid anyone this winter.
Don’t you say this every offseason, Lew? I’d expect the Phillies to sign one of Michael Bourn, BJ Upton or Nick Swisher.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
12:14 pm
If BJ Upton is the only choice for OF, I’d rather see a signing of Greinke, trades of Hanson, Maholm, and Teheran for any CF (which would be an overpay for the likes of Span, Fowler, Leonys Martin etc.)
I can understand overpaying for the FA market, even moreso when we have a big need at the position. But to throw 15mil at BJ Upton is just utter foolishness. He hasn’t earned that yet.
Cantor Steve
November 20th, 2012
12:15 pm
OK – I read some of the comments here. Let me start with I am a fan of the Braves, have been since moving to Atlanta in 1995 and still am after moving to South Florida in 2009, though am also still a Yankees fan having grown up in Connecticut.
That being said I see a lot of negative comments here, and some that make no sense. I also see many comments from people who obviously know the game. Here is my take:
1.) I wish Liberty would just sell the team to someone who is willing to spend the money and care about the team.
2.) Since #1 is not going to happen any time soon then they should just open up their wallets and raise the payroll.
3.) Since #2 is not going to happen, I think that we should attempt to re-sign Bourn. Who knows, this might be a ruse on the part of Wren to (as someone so aptly stated below) convince the Phillies to overpay for Upton, then if other teams have the feelings about Bourn’s eventual decline in the end of his 5 year contract we might be able to get him for less. (Wishful Thinking)
4.) Uggla has been a disappointment, however, even though he struck out a lot, he did lead the league in BOBs. Either he is going to come out of it, strike out less, get his swing back or he won’t. As long as he gets on base at this point that is fine. Also, his defense is not bad, better than what it was on the Marlins.
5.) I like Pagan or Victorino – price is one thing, but they both are above average defenders and both can get on base and steal bags. I like Span also.
6.) I DO NOT LIKE Hamilton – too much baggage, and why overpay? There are better options.
I go back to the idea that Wren and FG need to work with the limited payroll that Liberty provides them. Until we get another Ted Turner owner – which might never happen – we, as fans, need to accept this reality.
We need a lead-off guy – someone who can steal bags and get on base. No one seems to be talking about Bourn’s strikeouts here, however he struck out a lot, and that alone, plus the fact that he “faded” at the end of the season might be enough to eventually drive down his pricetag and even the amount of years he will get. I would love to get him for 3 years at $39mm. Then we can work on either a 3rd baseman or a LF. Prado should play 3rd, however he was great (not just good) in LF.
I could get into more, however I do have to get back to work.
Have a great day everyone!
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
12:15 pm
arent we still paying bruce sutter?
jim
November 20th, 2012
12:16 pm
I agree Lew, the Phils are not going to outbid for the likes of Upton, but if the offers are comparable, and I’m Upton, I go with Philadelphia for the ballpark, the atmosphere, and the same chance to get in the playoffs. I don’t look for the Phils to outbid the Braves. I’m just worried that the Braves try too hard to outbid the Phils.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
12:16 pm
Phillies really have no other choice than to play in free agency. They don’t have a good system with prospects to deal, and Amaro even said they are going to fill needs through free agency. I think they end up with Upton at the end of it all. Six years, $90-96 million.
More BJ Upton Rumors | Rays Index
November 20th, 2012
12:16 pm
[...] Carroll Rogers of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution says the Braves are targeting several center fielders but that BJ Upton continues to be their top choice, who are making a “strong push.” [AJC.com] [...]
JK
November 20th, 2012
12:17 pm
Hopefully this is just a publicity move and we do not really intend on signing BJ Upton. This would be a very, very bad use of payroll. Hamilton is better than Upton and whatever else we would get for 8 mil.
JK
November 20th, 2012
12:17 pm
Hopefully this is just a publicity move and we do not really intend on signing BJ Upton. This would be a very, very bad use of payroll. Hamilton is better than Upton and whatever else we would get for 8 mil.
CB
November 20th, 2012
12:18 pm
I want to see Schafer starting in CF just so I can see TP’s reaction. Schafer has the ability to make TP incoherent. I take pleasure out of life’s little things.
Ryan
November 20th, 2012
12:18 pm
I would much rather the Braves trade for the younger (and cheaper) Dexter Fowler than to sign B.J. Upton to an expensive contract. Upton doesn’t hit for average, which means that the Braves would be positioning themselves to leave even more men on base in key situations than they did last year. Plus, Dexter Fowler is a lead-off guy with lots of speed, which we need to replace in losing Bourn. I also wouldn’t be against the Braves putting together a package for Justin Upton…..
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
12:18 pm
The Phils can have Swisher and I will take Upton and feel like we won the offseason…
And yes, I’d think a Gordon for Shields is a pretty solid match for the Royals if thats what they were after….
Then Wil Myers slides right into LF
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
12:19 pm
….And Dexter Fowler doesn’t hit at all outside of Coors….
As I’ve stated before….I don’t know about some who haven’t played the game, but its impossible to steal 1b
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:19 pm
Efrim – Maybe so, but the money has got to be a rewstriction sooner or later and I’d also say the Phillie’s shine lost qauite a bit of luster last year. Also, they have some serious needs to fill – two outfield spots and also some infield – if I’m not mistaken
They have a lot of financial commitments still in force and the pitching suffered quite a bit with Halladay’s injuries last year. And – like I said – Utley’s not getting younger or healthier and they have some serious competition.for the players they have targeted.
So we’ll see.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
12:20 pm
I for one think Upton would be a good sign for the Braves because he is a right handed power bat who averages more than 30 steals per season, plays good defense, just turned 28 last August and would be signed as a free agen
RH bat: True
Power bat: eh, not so true. Homeruns aren’t everything, and he holds a career .422 SLG. Prado is at .435. Is he a power bat?
Steals: Sure the stolen base threat is good to have, but they don’t directly lead to runs scored. Not a big big bonus.
Plays good defense: Lie. He’s at best an average CF, I’d say below average.
Just turned 28 and is a FA: He’s entering his prime, but hasn’t gotten any better the last 4 years… he’s been a mediocre sukker of a player. He wants 15mil from FA. I’d rather overpay in prospects for a better CF
Rick C
November 20th, 2012
12:20 pm
Ryan, Fowler doesn’t hit for average, or anything else really, away from Coors. Career 248/331/367 line in away games.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
12:21 pm
I’d like to see any of these series of moves;
1. Trade with Texas for Olt and Gentry
2. Sign Hamilton
1. Sign Upton
2. Trade for J. Upton
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
November 20th, 2012
12:23 pm
Another concern is the Braves clubhouse…..
Losing the leadership of Chipper and David Ross is going to be impossible to replace.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:23 pm
Not to mention that all of the teams in contention for some of these players now have the Braves with money to contend with – somewhat different than in the past several years.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
12:23 pm
Phillies actually have more money to play with this winter than the Braves do: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tSSu2Qy8G9pTSsguHAbeu-A&output=html
$136 million in guarantees for 2013, but they are fine with being at $175 million in payroll. They need two outfielders, a 3rd baseman and a RH setup man, but I think they’ll be able to fill all of that with $35 million to play with, even if they give Bossman Junior half of it.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
12:24 pm
@cantorsteve, what do you want the payroll to be at? I am one that doesn’t look at 94m payroll as low ball. High payrolls do not guarantee you anything except bad contracts that will strap a team. The phillies don’t have much of a choice once they went down that road. They have an older team and not much of a farm system. Look at the Marlins last year. Look what the signings did for the Angels, the Redsox as prime examples. Its more about HOW you spend it instead of how much.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
12:24 pm
Clearly you are an Upton fan and for that reason only, you are attempting to “sell” him to Brave’s fans. Ok, everyone does that. I personally would never obligate $75m to a player with Upton’s stats.
I’m not really an Upton fan nor am I an Upton hater. I’m purely look at his value as a baseball player and, based on that, it’s clear why the Braves are interested.
But people have their own assumptions (emphasis on that word) as to how good or bad players are at creating and preventing runs. Too often those assumptions don’t fit reality. Either that or they just don’t bother with run creation and run prevention. It’s more of a beauty contest of whether the stats and body of work looks attractive, not how valuable players are in terms of creating and preventing runs, i.e., producing wins.
jim
November 20th, 2012
12:26 pm
Ryan,
If you are putting together a trade for Justin Upton, who are you offering to the DBacks?
Who do you give to Denver for Fowler?
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:28 pm
They may have more to spend than the Braves, but we actually have trade possibilities, too. They’ll have to spend that cash to fill those needs. Not much trade potential left to them, is there?
Ray
November 20th, 2012
12:28 pm
@shaun, asking for your opinion in regards to Upton. It’s safe to say his obp is pretty bad. Batting avg not great. Homeruns were up there. Offensively how does he improve the Braves offense. Being serious not being sarcastic.
Enquiring Minds Want To Know
November 20th, 2012
12:28 pm
Please bear in mind I am not advocating using Gattis and Schafer (OK, maybe Gattis a little bit), but I do contend that even that would be better than signing the wrong guys to crippling long-term contracts. Get it right. Take your time. Don’t Panic!
Fols
November 20th, 2012
12:33 pm
Maybe it’s not a steal, but slapping a pitch into play and using pure speed to beat out the throw that otherwise would have been an out…..is as much of a steal as out running the throw from the catcher. A man with pure speed, probably steals first base on many occassions. We just call it an infield hit.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
12:34 pm
Lew-
Did you by chance catch MLB Tonight from last night…..?
Al Leiter had the gall to suggest the Phils could trade TWO prospects to obtain Chase Headley….
And they wonder why fans question why some of these morons still have jobs….
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
12:36 pm
Nothing is ever crippling anymore…
The Marlins and Red Sox have proven that….
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
12:37 pm
Prado career SLG: .435, .780 OPS
Upton Career SLG: .422, .758 OPS
Last 4 years Prado: .436 SLG, .778 OPS
Last 4 years Upton: .420 SLG, .736 OPS
Fols
November 20th, 2012
12:37 pm
“Losing the leadership of Chipper and David Ross is going to be impossible to replace.”
It’s also impossible to measure…
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:40 pm
PTown – Nah, I think I watched something much more important than Leiter’s commentary – Like Antiques Roadshow or American Pickers.
Slowhiteguy
November 20th, 2012
12:40 pm
The Braves, apparently like many other organizations, are enamored with BJ Upton’s ceiling. There is no single player in this years free agent market with better tools…and i am counting 7 tools not five. The additional 2 tools being makeup and ability to stay healthy. Question his makeup all you want, and that may indeed be an issue but he certainly has 5 of the remaining 6, the hit tool being the only one in question.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
12:41 pm
Ryan, Fowler doesn’t hit for average, or anything else really, away from Coors. Career 248/331/367 line in away games.
He’s been closer to .270 avg. his last 2 season on the road. He still puts up a high OBP, and aside from 2010, he has slugged about .380 on the road. That’s higher than Bourn’s career SLG. Take out 2010, Fowler OPSs 720 on the road; 703 if we include that season. He’s about the same player on the road that Bourn has been for his career.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:42 pm
I still haven’t had anyone tell me why the Padres would even be interested in getting rid of Headley to begin with. Seems to me that hes the type of player you build a team around. And since they’re bringing the fences in this year, I;d imagine he’ll only put up better numbers next year.
Tron
November 20th, 2012
12:43 pm
You armchair gms need to give it a rest. Your suggestions are idiotic. Just shut up and wait.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
12:44 pm
Ray, improves the Braves offense relative to what? I’m not claiming he’ll improve the offense, per se. I’m claiming he’s the best option among centerfielders this offseason, when you take in to account his skills, his age, his position, his likely cost, the Braves’ budget, etc., to provide the most value.
The Braves offense will be fine if everyone is healthy, McCann bounces back, and they acquire solid players for leftfield and centerfield (and Upton would be a good option). It’s not farfetched to think all of this will happen. In fact, most of it is likely to happen. Upton is not a great offensive player. Upton is a solid offensive centerfielder, which has significant value. At the very least, the Braves don’t have to worry about making up for a lack of offense from their centerfield position.
If you think Upton’s overall offensive skills are solid for a centerfielder. Offensive replacement level is fairly low in centerfield.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
12:44 pm
To bad the yankees wouldnt eat some of A-Rod contract, and we can trade for him.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:44 pm
Chipper and Ross added a good bit to the clubhouse, but it’s not like they’ll all be just sitting around this year looking like statues orstarting their own Fight Club. I’m certain that there was more to the clubhouse than those two players.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
12:50 pm
More like….
What did you smoke for breakfast
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:50 pm
I’m pretty certain that McCann, Hudson and Prado can keep th clubhouse lightened up and laughing just fine on their own. And I hear Laird is a good presence as well.
I think some of y’all are just inclined to freak out on anything that crosses your minds.
Hillbilly
November 20th, 2012
12:50 pm
….And Dexter Fowler doesn’t hit at all outside of Coors….
Ehhhh, I don’t know. .286 Avg/.782 OPS in 2011 away from Coors. .262/.772 in 2012. It’s an improvement over ‘09 and ‘10 by quite a bit. He’s moving in the right direction.
George_George
November 20th, 2012
12:51 pm
Good day all
Every day lately I am very aprehensive when I open AJC BRAVES PAGE. I fear a BJ signing. I truely believe he will be another NATE THE GREAT for us.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:52 pm
Of course, they WILL have to replace Chipper’s locker.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
12:53 pm
Not to mention that Fowler is also a native Atlantan (Apharetta, anyway) and his wife is from Atlanta. Bet he’d hit pretty well with all that home cookin’.
O.M.G.
November 20th, 2012
12:57 pm
It sounds like most people would agree that BJ is an OK player, not great, but OK. The question is $15M for an OK player? Ay?
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
12:57 pm
Losing the leadership of Chipper and David Ross is going to be impossible to replace.
Chipper and Ross added a good bit to the clubhouse, but it’s not like they’ll all be just sitting around this year looking like statues orstarting their own Fight Club. I’m certain that there was more to the clubhouse than those two players.
Without players like Chipper and Ross, major leaguers would just wander the fields aimlessly during games.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
12:57 pm
no comments about Prado outslugging, outOPSing, and totally outperforming BJ Upton? Shocker…
Ryan
November 20th, 2012
12:58 pm
Hamilton- Don’t make me laugh. Will be well over-paid with HUGE question marks. A checkered history and will probably make in the range of 22 mil a year. Not worth it.
Bourn- Hit like .220 in the 2nd half of last year AND got caught stealing at the highest rate of his career, yet you guys want to give him 75 mil?(He will get more than that from Washington). Not worth that.
The good of signing Upton is we would still have all our trade chips to try to aquire a left fielder. He would have the most protection in our line up that he has ever had. To everyone balking at the 5-75 mil numbers….Guess what? 75 million is pretty much an average contract now days for a good player. The contracts have gotten out of hand and you have to pay to play. If Upton can hit .260 and hit 25 HRs for us, which is very plausible, I’d be happy with him.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
12:58 pm
A-Rod will sell seats and bring national attention like ESPN to Atlanta.
George_George
November 20th, 2012
12:58 pm
S/O Lew
I have not seen, but am wondering, do you know what nolie’s positon is on BRAVES signing BJ?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
12:59 pm
Tron – You armchair gms need to give it a rest. Your suggestions are idiotic. Just shut up and wait.
Let’s all turn off the computers. Tron says our suggestions are idiotic and that we must shut up and wait. We are not entitled to share our opinions. Goodbye all. See you on the other side of the offseason.
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:02 pm
Reason nobody is comparing Prado to Upton is because we already have Prado….
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:03 pm
no comments about Prado outslugging, outOPSing, and totally outperforming BJ Upton? Shocker…
a) No one denies Prado is a better player.
b) The difference between the two is probably not as large as most of you think. Prado played mostly secondbase and leftfield the past four years while Upton played centerfield. Upton also played his home games in a pitcher-friendly park.
It sounds like most people would agree that BJ is an OK player, not great, but OK. The question is $15M for an OK player? Ay?
“OK Player” kind of oversimplifies things, but I see the point. Fifteen million dollars a year for a free agent that will likely provide the kind of value Upton will provide over the next few seasons is not unreasonable, based on the market.
Ryan
November 20th, 2012
1:04 pm
And Prado is an all-star…so If Upton’s numbers are close…what is your point?
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:05 pm
Tthe Yankees would have to give up too much, in terms of salary, and wouldn’t get enough back, in terms of players, to make it worth their while to trade A-Rod to a team like the Braves.
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:07 pm
I am 83.8% certain that Span will be a Brave next season. If Wren pulled that off, would Upton still be brought in to play LF?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:08 pm
Shaun – Fifteen million dollars a year for a free agent that will likely provide the kind of value Upton will provide over the next few seasons is not unreasonable, based on the market.
Assuming your analysis on market value is true, It just pains me to see the market valuing Upton so high.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:09 pm
Donnie, YOURE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT….
Dude…..the point, the point is…..
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:11 pm
When do we have to fork out the money to lock up Freeman? I would give up my left eyebrow to keep Freeman a Brave for a long time.
Not my right eyebrow though…I still use that one for most of my facial expressions.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:12 pm
It sounds like most people would agree that BJ is an OK player, not great, but OK. The question is $15M for an OK player? Ay?
Too much if you think “OK” is his ceiling, the best he’ll ever be. It’s pretty obvious that there is a school of thought among GMs that this is not the case, and that someone will be willing to pay a premium for the perceived upside.
As noted above, if Upton’s low side is being Martin Prado plus the possibility of being more, the dollars become a little more palatable, I guess.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:12 pm
Some may ask why I am now quoting movies….
Well, I figure the energy there is used just about as efficiently as some of the baseball posts Ive read
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:14 pm
I expected the Rocky Mountains to be a little rockier than this.
I was thinking the same thing. That John Denver’s full of sh*t, man.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:14 pm
Tumbledown, That’s not that high. The best players in the game last season were worth over $30M in terms of wins per dollar that teams paid on the free agent market. In other words, if you had bought the number of wins Mike Trout provided on last season’s free agent market, you would have paid about $45M.
Buying wins on the free agent market isn’t as cheap as many of you seem to think.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
1:14 pm
as much hubub as is being about the braves and upton, i think if he signs elsewhere at this point, its going to make Wren look like he has failed. i say that to say, this has gone beyond being “in” on a big free agent for appearances, or to up the price for competitors.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:15 pm
I have not seen, but am wondering, do you know what nolie’s positon is on BRAVES signing BJ?
Even more against it than am I.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:16 pm
I took a shower washing every body part with actual soap; including all my major crevices; including inbetween my toes and in my belly button, which I never did before but sort of enjoyed. I washed my hair with adult formula shampoo and used cream rinse for that just-washed shine. I can’t seem to find my toothbrush, so I’ll pick one up when I go out today. Other than that, I’m in good shape.
Martin Prado
November 20th, 2012
1:16 pm
If a clown like BJ Upton can command 15 million a season, how much am I worth?
Free agency is not that far away !
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:16 pm
Is Prado a 15mil player? If not (which I’m sure all of us agree is the case), then why is Upton one? Prado outperforms him, is a better hitter for average, and outslugs Upton. If we want our RH masher, how about Prado for the 4-hole? Yeah, right.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:18 pm
You know, Dan Marino should definitely buy this car.
Well, not this one, ’cause I’m gonna f this one up. But he should definitely get one just like it.
Ryan
November 20th, 2012
1:18 pm
Span- .284 .357 .389 .746
Cain- .281 .327 .412 .739
Upton .255 .336 .422 .758
Upton .278 .357 .475 .832
Bourn .272 .339 .365 .704
Fowl .271 .364 .427 .791
Heywa .261 .352 .447 .799
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:18 pm
And I wouldn’t call a nearly .050 point difference in OPS between Prado and Upton (for the last 4 years) “close”
ALJ
November 20th, 2012
1:19 pm
O.M.G. No, he is not a 15 million dollar player. Either sign Pagan or trade for Span.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
1:19 pm
So, the commissioner green-lighted the Miami-Toronto deal. Big surprise, huh?
Selig should have shutdown the deal and, consequently, shutdown Loria.
Where’s the integrity these days?
George_George
November 20th, 2012
1:19 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:15 pm
I have not seen, but am wondering, do you know what nolie’s positon is on BRAVES signing BJ?
Even more against it than am I.
*******************************
Thank you
I kinda thought so.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:20 pm
Shaun – Certain stats that value someone as worth X amount of dollars do not equate to how much a player actually makes per year. I don’t see anyone making $30 million plus per year. Your stats seem to be similar to those county real estate appraisals that value houses way above what they could actually sell for in the open market.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:20 pm
50 point difference…
If a clown like BJ Upton can command 15 million a season, how much am I worth?-Martin Prado
If BJ can get 15, with your better average, slugging, OPS, and versatility, I’d give you 20 at minimum… maybe you can get 22-23
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:21 pm
Outslugs is tainted stat. You don’t bring in Upton to hit the gap you bring him in for the slugging % that makes it over the wall. Therefore if he’s slightly under Prado for slugging yet closer to 30 HR….that’s a completely different slugging % in my mind because it’s also a completely different spot in the line-up.
Prado batting 2nd
Upton batting 4th
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:21 pm
Normally, both your *sses would be dead as f-n fried chicken, but you happen to pull this sh*t while I’m in a transitional period so I don’t wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can’t give you this case, it don’t belong to me. Besides, I’ve already been through too much sh*t this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb *ss.
DS1
November 20th, 2012
1:22 pm
Actually, John Denver isn’t full of anything. He is actually spread a little thin over the Rocky Mountains as we speak.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:24 pm
Is Prado a 15mil player?
It’s reasonable for a typical major league team to pay Prado at least $15M a season for at least 3 seasons, when he hits free agency, barring something inexplicable, like a major injury or something, happening between now and then.
Prado and his agent should ask for something in the range of $17M a season for 4 seasons, on the open free agent market. Perhaps he takes less to stay with the Braves.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:26 pm
Upton batting 4th… oh, the hell. A cleanup hitter who hits .242/.316/.420/.736 over Heyward, Freeman, Mac, and Uggla who all will likely outperform him, likely. Nice. Real nice. Upton is a 7 hitter. Maybe 8th if Simba can pick it up.
bvillebaron
November 20th, 2012
1:26 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan:
You would rather overpay with prospects for what exactly? How well did Schueholz’s overpay of propsects for Texeira work out for you?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:28 pm
You’re not your job. You’re not how much money you have in the bank. You’re not the car you drive. You’re not the contents of your wallet. You’re not your f-ing khakis. You’re the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
Who is Keyser Soze? He is supposed to be Turkish. Some say his father was German. Nobody believed he was real. Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever worked directly for him, but to hear Kobayashi tell it, anybody could have worked for Soze. You never knew. That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. And like that, poof. He’s gone.
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
I don’t ‘WANT’ him as our 4th hitter…..just saying that’s where he’d be on this team.
Uggla has a lot to prove, Mac won’t be ready, it’s not Simmons so they’d break up the left handed bats of Heyward/Freeman with Upton. Just the way it is.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
Tumbledown, they aren’t my stats. They are based on what teams paid for a win on the free agent market. Of course no one makes $30M-plus a year (although Pujols comes close) because teams probably shouldn’t and don’t count on $30M worth of wins every year from any one player.
Just because a player is worth $30M in terms of the wins he provided and wins per free agent dollars, it doesn’t mean it’s wise for a team to pay him that much. If a team does that, they are essentially betting on that player having an MVP-caliber season every year.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
If we want HR power and don’t care so much about the doubles, then what about Juan? He’ll put up roughly the same stats as BJ Upton, lots cheaper. Both below average defensively, but Juan isn’t playing as important a position as Upton would be
DAP
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
shaun The best players in the game last season were worth over $30M in terms of wins per dollar that teams paid on the free agent market.
this is a stupid way to evaluate the monetary worth of a player.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:32 pm
I understand Shaun. I am more at odds from an emotional standpoint with the stats themselves then your analysis. Intellectually, I grudgingly accept what they represent.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:33 pm
If we want HR power and don’t care so much about the doubles, then what about Juan? He’ll put up roughly the same stats as BJ Upton
Now you’re just being foolish. Ranking Upton and Francisco as comparable does nothing to help your argument against Upton.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:34 pm
Hey look, mister. We serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don’t need any characters around to give the joint “atmosphere”. Is that clear, or do I have to slip you my left for a convincer?
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:34 pm
Well then Shaun, I’d rather pay Prado than Upton. He’s a better player.
You would rather overpay with prospects for what exactly? How well did Schueholz’s overpay of propsects for Texeira work out for you?
That trade wasn’t entirely bad; it was made out of depth. We just didn’t need offense that year, we needed pitching. Made a trade for the wrong commodity. I’d rather overpay with prospects for Span, Olt, Leonys Martin, Fowler, Gordon, Justin Upton. Moves to get any of those players would be better than signing BJ for 15mil
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:34 pm
So now you are saying Juan and Prado is just as as good as a Prado and Upton combo?
yikes….i’m not an Upton fan but COM’ON MAN!
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:35 pm
My wife deserves vengeance. Doesn’t make a difference whether I know about it. Just because there are things I don’t remember doesn’t make my actions meaningless. The world doesn’t just disappear when you close your eyes, does it? Anyway, maybe I’ll take a photograph to remind myself, get another freaky tattoo.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:35 pm
DAP, why is it not appropriate to figure what teams paid per win on the free agent market? Why is that “stupid”?
I do think teams and agents should only use those figures as a guide, but if I’m an agent or a GM, this is essentially the way I’m valuating players when trying to determine what to ask for or what to give.
Ryan
November 20th, 2012
1:37 pm
Sign B.J. for CF and then use the prospects to get Justin in LF. Then you have 80 HR’s, and Good to Great D all the way across. But once we pay Heyward, we’d have about 50 million tied up in 3 spots
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:37 pm
Why, scoots? Both are guys capable of putting up 30HR seasons, 20-25 doubles, .440 or so slugging. About the same slugging range as Prado, they just trade some doubles for HR (and chop off a lot from their avg./obp in the process). Upton is not that good. End of story.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
1:37 pm
Braves Trade: Prado and Minor
To Yankees for: A Rod and Cash
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:38 pm
DAP, how do you decide what things are worth? Say you were in the market for a TV? You’d probably look at the going rate, right, to determine what you are willing to pay. So why is it “stupid” to look at the going rate on the free agent market for wins to determine what might be appropriate for a team to pay a player or for a player to command?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:38 pm
If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour… you’re gonna see some serious sh*t.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:39 pm
Baseball talk, statistical analysis, movie quotes, soap opera-like drama! What more can one ask from a blog?
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
1:40 pm
P-Town Brave have you been living in 1885?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:41 pm
So, you guys like to tell jokes, huh? Gigglin’ and laughin’ like a bunch of young broads sittin’ in a schoolyard. Well, let me tell a joke. Five guys, sittin’ in a bullpen, in San Quentin. All wondering how the f- they got there. What should we have done, what didn’t we do, who’s fault is it, is it my fault, your fault, his fault, all that bullsh*t. Then one of them says, hey. Wait a minute.
When we were planning this caper, all we did was sit around tellin’ f-n’ jokes! Get the message? Boys, I don’t mean to holler at ya. When this caper’s over – and I’m sure it’ll be a successful one – we’ll get down to the Hawaiian Islands, hell, I’ll roll and laugh with all of ya. You’ll find me a different character down there.
Right now, it’s a matter of business.
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:41 pm
Listen, OnlyBravesFan…i’m just simply saying comparing Prado which is someone we already have in our #2 spot locked in ready to go…….to the FA we are considering doesn’t do a lot of good.
Prado is a contact, doubles hitter, regardless of his slug %, Upton’s bat brings something a little different. There’s a legit shot of adding a 30 HR guy to our line-up which if that’s how he performs, all the better.
However, i’m skeptic of these FA’s. They put on a Braves jersey and their stats drop dead.
Braves Continue Pursuing B.J. Upton - Unofficial Network
November 20th, 2012
1:41 pm
[...] for free agent Michael Bourn. B.J. Upton remains the Braves’ top choice at the position, Carroll Rogers of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported yesterday. Braves GM Frank Wren acknowledged his interest in Upton while stressing the [...]
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:42 pm
Upton is not that good. End of story.
You promise? Have you made enough posts about Upton that we get your drift, you think?
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:45 pm
If Prado was a free agent today, he could command $17M a year for 4 years. I bet he would get that from your typical major league team needing a thirdbaseman.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
1:45 pm
shaun why is it not appropriate to figure what teams paid per win on the free agent market? Why is that “stupid”?
you know why. botched free agent signings (there are alot of them) skew this number beyond relevancy, illustrated in part by the fact that juan pierre can play 130 games for the phillies, OPS .721 while playing unspectacular defense in LF, and be worth $7.5mil using this metric. its obviously stupid.
also, a player has 30 different monetary values, different for every team. making a conclusion on what a specific team should pay a player based on this number would be unwise.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:45 pm
Ooooh, I’m very sorry Hans. I didn’t get that message. Maybe you should’ve put it on the bulletin board. I figured since I’ve waxed Tony and Marco and his friend here, I figured you and Karl and Franco might be a little lonely, so I wanted to give you a call.
DS1
November 20th, 2012
1:45 pm
How long do we have to wait to find out who “Up Chuck” signs with? Has he said when he is going to decide?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:47 pm
Well I’m gonna go then. And I don’t need any of this. I don’t need this stuff, and I don’t need you. I don’t need anything except this. And that’s it and that’s the only thing I need, is this. I don’t need this or this. Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that’s all I need. And this remote control . . .
DS1
November 20th, 2012
1:47 pm
Yippee ki yay!
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
1:48 pm
well heres my foolish take on it
id just as soon see the team stand pat as to sign bj upton at 5 yrs 75 million, now if we coiuld get him 3 yrs for 15 million total count me imn
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
1:48 pm
Just sign Hamilton and get it over with.. no need to drag this thing out.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:48 pm
Upton’s bat brings something a little different
Sure does. Suckage. But I guess since I’m not a chick, I’m not awed by the long-ball potential.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
1:49 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:15 pm
I have not seen, but am wondering, do you know what nolie’s positon is on BRAVES signing BJ?
Even more against it than am I.
That’s not saying much. nolie is old and stubborn and doesn’t like change.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:49 pm
Good evening, London. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone’s death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn’t there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you’ve seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
1:49 pm
Something like 10yrs 252.. I’d say that’s about right.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
1:51 pm
I’ll tell you want Upton doesn’t do….. cost you prospects. That’s a huge advantage with the depth we have to deal from and the limited holes we have to fill.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
id just as soon see the team stand pat as to sign bj upton at 5 yrs 75 million, now if we coiuld get him 3 yrs for 15 million total count me imn
This.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
I have been stabbed, shot, poisoned, frozen, hung, electrocuted, and burned.
…and every morning I wake up without a scratch on me, not a dent in the fender… I am an immortal.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
id just as soon see the team stand pat as to sign bj upton at 5 yrs 75 million, now if we coiuld get him 3 yrs for 15 million total count me imn
This.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
If Prado was a free agent today, he could command $17M a year for 4 years. I bet he would get that from your typical major league team needing a thirdbaseman.
Oh, man, LOL, if Prado goes to FA and starts looking for that kind of deal? All that existing Prado love here will instantly transform into hate, creating a day on the blog worthy of The Seventh Ring Of Hell.
The blog will flay the guy. Folks might do it with the sad face of a jilted lover, but they’d crucify him all the same.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
The biggest negative to signing Hamilton would be the years it would take and he’d already be 32 through the first year of that contract. When would the decline come? Could it have already begun?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:55 pm
I do not mean to pry, but you don’t by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:55 pm
My second and final movie quote contribution:
Frank: It’s the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girl dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year’s Day.
Jane: Goodyear?
Frank: No, the worst.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:56 pm
Oh, and figure out something for the draft pick too. Ain’t giving that up for BJ.
Prado for 17M? Seems high to me, but regardless, I’d pay him that if necessary. Definitely before I even consider giving BJ Upton a call…
Carroll
November 20th, 2012
1:57 pm
Is there no scenario in which Upton appears to be the best choice?
Scoots, I agree with many who have said “no.” I agree that even Schaffer is a better option simply bc of the flexibilitty he gives the Braves. If the FA mkt and trade mkt have dried up to the point that BJ is the last best option, then that is fate’s way of telling the Braves that it is just not meant to be right now. A team in the braves position financially cannot afford another Uggla-like signing implosion–it could cripple our franchise for years.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:58 pm
id just as soon see the team stand pat as to sign bj upton at 5 yrs 75 million
Standing pat means playing 7 guys.
They’re a couple short right now, remember?
In an offseason where the team has not only cash to spend but also tradeable players, I think the only thing that is certain is that they are not going to “stand pat”.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
1:58 pm
arkansas transplant I’ll tell you want Upton doesn’t do….. cost you prospects. That’s a huge advantage with the depth we have to deal from and the limited holes we have to fill.
this is a great point.
jbill
November 20th, 2012
2:00 pm
@11;41 Jim said “I’d rather see Schafer in CF.”
Thats a joke– Schafer is two time loser busted, plus just did hit 200 for Astros and was riding the pines last half. But he still fits in Braves club house. lol . While some say BJ and Hamilton wouldn’t fit..BS double standard.
“TheonlyBravesfan’s” last 2 sentences @ 1;43..I agree with 110%..get it done.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
2:02 pm
If the FA mkt and trade mkt have dried up to the point that BJ is the last best option, then that is fate’s way of telling the Braves that it is just not meant to be right now.
I’m trying to imagine Frank’s news conference. You know, the one in which he says, “Well, it just wasn’t meant to be. We’ll just have to muddle through with Jordan Schaefer and Juan Francisco, because I’m sure the fan base would rather see this year’s third-place finish with an extra $25MM under the mattress than see us make a bad FA signing.”
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
2:03 pm
I wouldn’t worry too much about the size contract we dish out on a FA signing this offseason.. we’ll have plenty coming off the books over the next few years to sign our current young studs. Hudson isn’t going to play forever, Hanson is probably living on borrowed time, Maholm isn’t here past this coming season, JJ is non-tendered and Uggla won’t be re-upped after current contract and who knows about McCann.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
2:03 pm
It would be a waste of an offseason if Schafer is the Braves’ starting CF next year. I would rather take a chance on Upton than settle for Schafer.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
2:06 pm
@p-town: Movie quotes with braves players and managers names used.
“Hasta La Vista…..Freeman”
“Hello! Think McCann, Think!”
“No I am your Diaz, No!!!!!”
Carroll
November 20th, 2012
2:08 pm
overpaying for a FA just to give the appearance that you did “something” isn’t exactly a smart business modle either
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
2:08 pm
It would be a waste of an offseason if Schafer is the Braves’ starting CF next year. I would rather take a chance on Upton than settle for Schafer.
The only reason Schafer would be he Braves’ starting CF this year would be if a meteor struck the earth and removed the world of talented baseball players.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
2:09 pm
I’m going to go against the metrics/stats/common sense and say that Prado signs a four year contract for around $38 million later this offseason.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:09 pm
True, AT… I guess we do have 15mil or so to gamble on a .240/.316/.420 hitter. It’s only about 1/6 of the payroll into a mediocre player. Perrrfect.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
2:09 pm
It would be a waste of an offseason if Schafer is the Braves’ starting CF next year.
I believe that would require such a convoluted set of circumstances as to be, literally, beyond imagination.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
2:10 pm
Shaun, did you get that $17 million dollar number from Fangraphs?
I do not believe Prado would get that sort of a contract out on the open market.
jbill
November 20th, 2012
2:11 pm
I’d take a chance on my Border Collie in CF over Schafer…he can run, catch and smarter than a fifth grader. Oh, he’s cheap but got a $$$ agent.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:11 pm
overpaying for a FA just to give the appearance that you did “something” isn’t exactly a smart business modle either
Exactly.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:13 pm
Shaun, did you get that $17 million dollar number from Fangraphs?
Where else? He’s a slave to his stats…
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
2:14 pm
Prado will be 30 years old on opening day 2014 – his first year in his new contract. .295/.345/.435, 109 OPS+ – corner outfielder/3rd baseman.
Tough call. I really wouldn’t want to give him more than $10-11 million per year.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
2:15 pm
overpaying for a FA just to give the appearance that you did “something” isn’t exactly a smart business modle either
Oh, the FA market is terribly inefficient, goes without saying. But the FO is going to attempt to make the team better, in some way, even if we here disagree with the method and results. They may have to go down their lists several spots deep, for all I know, and may end up with players nowhere close to the FO’s druthers.
Posters here aren’t likely to go along with the choices, in any event.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:16 pm
TOBF – I don’t ave anything against you guys, just the crazies that come on, and put out hate, because they hate some one. I say if you have a chance to get some one like B.J. Upton get him, and if you can’t then go with plan b,c, and d. I like the fact B.J. Upton is 28 years old, and can’t base everything on one season, or two just like you can’t predict,and base Uggs season from the last 2.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
2:17 pm
DAP, botched free agent signing skew the numbers, sure. You know what else does? Free agent signings that are team-friendly.
Also, those estimates are about the general cost of wins on the free agent market. It’s not designed to make judgements on whether teams overpaid for wins. It simply is designed to reveal the free agent market value for wins. If a team overpaid for wins, in your opinion, that still influenced what the market paid for wins, whether we think it was appropriate or not.
Yes, 30 different teams have 30 different monetary values on wins. This is best used as a generalization and a guideline.
Regarding Juan Pierre, that $7.5M was what teams paid on the free agent market for 1.7 wins above replacement this season. That’s not a statement about whether a team should pay anywhere near $7.5M for Juan Pierre. For one thing, Juan Pierre-type players are a dime a dozen. There are tons of minor league leftfielders who can provide that kind of value at a minimal cost.
Just because Pierre’s performance was worth $7.5M, doesn’t mean anyone should pay that much for that kind of performance.
BJ Upton is a little different. Centerfielders aren’t a dime a dozen, even merely okay centerfielders. Throw in the fact that the Braves don’t have any obvious centerfield candidates coming up through the ranks. So in order to get him, a team is going to have to pay something fairly close to the going rate for wins on the free agent market. You can’t easily get that kind of value from centerfield for less than the going rate.
UKUGA
November 20th, 2012
2:18 pm
Charloes Pierce published an article on Grantland.com today, complaining about sports owners, focusing his attention on Jerry and Jim Buss. Ha!
As a fan of both the Lakers and the Braves, I find it comical that someone (a Celtics fan at that) would direct a column about bad ownership toward one of the most successful ownership families of all-time, while the Braves suffer under the cheapskatedness and incompetence (see: TV deal) of Liberty Media.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8652157/the-lakers-buss-family-missteps
I will gladly take some very correctable bumbling (i.e. wasting money on Tomjanovich and Brown, only to replace them with Phil Jackson and Mike D’Antoni, respectively) from rich owners with more money than sense, over a staid corporate environment in which penny pinching has become the norm.
Less than 15 years ago, John Schuerholz went into one off-season making a statement to the effect that the Braves had never missed out on a free agent they really wanted.
So, so, long ago.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:19 pm
I’ll put Hello everyone! On this post! People get too fact based, and too opinionated on every little detail. Way too picky lately, and if they are not careful, they will not like any player, which I find very sad.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
2:19 pm
I guess we do have 15mil or so to gamble on
I wasn’t aware there was such a thing in baseball… gamble?? Aren’t they all gambles?
DS1
November 20th, 2012
2:19 pm
To Upton or not to Upton, that is the question.
When will Bossman Junior make a decision and spare us of all this banter?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
2:20 pm
I believe that would require such a convoluted set of circumstances as to be, literally, beyond imagination.
Oh no, I imagined it. Since we are in a movie mode, I picture Schafer like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man descending upon Turner Field to destroy all.
DS1
November 20th, 2012
2:21 pm
In case I don’t return in the next couple of days, I hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving Day!
Adios.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
2:21 pm
Efrim, I’ll tell ya what.. make a move with Texas for Olt and then weigh your options when it comes time to extent Prado long term.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:21 pm
I don’t base everything from facts, becasue every season is different, and it’s nothing, but numbers, and headaches. Plus, the numbers get mixed up, and conflicted with every one else. Numbers can be miss – leading most of the time.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
2:23 pm
When will Bossman Junior make a decision and spare us of all this banter?
Would the Braves have made a firm offer during Upton’s recruiting visit?
Maybe Junior’s agent doesn’t even have all the numbers from all the suitors in hand yet. Perhaps O’Brien might enlighten, if he has time.
RC
November 20th, 2012
2:24 pm
while the Braves suffer under the cheapskatedness and incompetence (see: TV deal) of Liberty Media.
TV deal was not made under Liberty Media ownership, it was a decision made by Time Warner that Liberty inherited with the team.
Much as I wish they would expand the payroll a bit, there is no evidence that Liberty’s ownership of the team has been incompetent, and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.
RC
November 20th, 2012
2:25 pm
Efrim, I’ll tell ya what.. make a move with Texas for Olt and then weigh your options when it comes time to extent Prado long term.
Texas offered Olt….for Simmons. Wren turned the deal down, which is exactly what he should have done.
bvillebaron
November 20th, 2012
2:26 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan:
If you genuinely believe the Texeira trade wasn’t all that bad, then the Braves need to sign Upton immediately because you now have no credibility whatsoever.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:29 pm
Yes, AT, they are gambles, but usually it’s after seeing what the player has done for the past few years. In this case, we’re gambling on the hopes that a guy gets better than what he currently is, which isn’t a player worth 15million.
I hear ya, Ward, but BJ Upton shouldn’t be a plan A. Or B. Or C, D, or E.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
2:29 pm
RC, I’d be alright with something like Ahmed and Delgado plus possibly another piece for Olt and Gentry. I think you’d get good value in a move like this.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
2:30 pm
What happens if the team leaves the tv deal
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:30 pm
Fowler, is taggd the the Braves in trade talk, and Braves are the first team in line. How about B.J. Upton, and Fowler, ahd Heyward out field. I’m open to that, as well?
jbill
November 20th, 2012
2:30 pm
Amen RC.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:31 pm
TOBF – Your alright! We just have different views, which is cool.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:33 pm
In all, Braves should sue TBS, Fox Sports, and ESPN , for not keeping up with thier word.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
2:33 pm
I asked DOB that exact question on twitter days ago and he never answered so I bet he has no idea if the Braves made an offer yet? Who knows, I would guess if they went to all the trouble to bring him in and have said he is their #1 then an offer would be made already, especially since the Braves aren’t the only ones in on him.
RC
November 20th, 2012
2:33 pm
AT,
I’d love that trade. I just get the feeling than Jon Daniels would be looking for a lot more in return for Olt, and based on the way each prospect has been talked about in the media, he’d be likely to get a lot more.
The reason they wanted Simmons was to flip him for Upton. I don’t know that the Rangers are all that interested in acquiring Ahmed and Delgado, especially since Ahmed would be incredibly blocked in Texas (behind both Andrus and Profar).
Seems more likely they will simply use Olt as a 1b/DH, getting another good bat in the lineup on the cheap.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:34 pm
Braves, could be interested in Fowler, and talking trades now?
RC
November 20th, 2012
2:35 pm
In all, Braves should sue TBS, Fox Sports, and ESPN , for not keeping up with thier word.
Ward, what did those broadcasters do to not “keep their word” that would be worth the Braves suing them? I’m not sure I fully understand this comment…
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
2:36 pm
Efrim, the fact that Prado is truly a thirdbaseman helps his value immensely, considering the state of thirdbase these days.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:37 pm
Rangers looking for a stud pitcher, maybe even Greinke. How about Medlen, Minor, or Beachy (not likely) for Olt. I’m only half-kidding
UKUGA
November 20th, 2012
2:37 pm
RC:
I actually knew that and forgot about the TV deal. Time Warner signed the deal, seemingly in part to get a sweeter deal on the broader MLB deal it signed (Sundays on TBS/Play-offs). Win-win for TW, lose-lose for Braves and its fans.
We suffered under the incompetence of Time Warner. LM has been a steady, boring force.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:38 pm
If Prado is worth 17mil, what’s Mac worth? 25? And what about Heyward? Oh boy…
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
2:40 pm
TOBF
Damn man I liked some of your earlier ideas when you 1st started coming on here but I do have to say when you have an idea or thought you just pound it into the ground for days. 1st it was your non-stop love for Grienke and Bourjos, both of which I like as players BTW, and now you hate for Upton on this team. I think I remember someone asking your age and you said 17…is that correct?
You seem like a girl who is in love for the 1st time and will stop at nothing to keep it that way.
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
2:41 pm
You idjits come up with anything substantial yet?
I didn’t think so. BRB.
P'cola Brave
November 20th, 2012
2:46 pm
Upton isn’t a terrible fit for this team considering the RH power he brings but I think the biggest fault people are having with it is the commitment and money it will take to land him. And really the guy has yet, at least in my opinion, to show hes worthy of a 15 million dollar commitment.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:46 pm
Mixxo – How’s Taco Bell lately? little humor……
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
2:46 pm
Upton just tweeted something about looking forward to the FSU game weekend so I guess he won’t be making a decision anytime soon. Let me tweet him and ask if he’s gonna make up his f’n mind anytime soon as he’s leaving us hanging around like a little worm on a big f’n hook.
bball fan
November 20th, 2012
2:46 pm
Pass on Upton! Please..
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
2:47 pm
the fact that Prado is truly a thirdbaseman helps his value immensely, considering the state of thirdbase these days
Still don’t believe he would get a four year, $68 million dollar contract out on the open market or is worth that much.
Rick C
November 20th, 2012
2:47 pm
A few months ago MLBTR brought up Prado as an extension candidate. They suggested four years $40-45MM.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/08/extension-candidate-martin-prado.html
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
2:48 pm
Fangraphs method of converting wins to free agent dollars basically just tells us the market rate for wins on the free agent market; nothing more, nothing less.
Obviously you have to factor in more than that because it’s a snapshot of the past values of players. So a team should obviously factor in what a player is likely to do going forward. Past performance obviously helps with this but so do things like age, skill set, body type, position, etc. Also a huge factor is whether a team can get similar value from a player’s position for much less than a player may be worth, in terms of free agent dollars. That’s obviously easier with certain positions and certain types of players than with others.
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
2:49 pm
well we can tslk about it all we want but i was the first one to tell everyone halladay was due for down season, and i aint the first on this but i do hope with many others that the fillys saddle up bj upton and pay him dearly for many years to come and yes halladay aint got it this year either, surgery by mid season
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
2:49 pm
Raburn was released by Detroit, he might be a good candidate for an invite to ST. Could bring some added bench depth on the cheap.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:51 pm
Rayburn does have speed still, and I agree for bench help.
Joe
November 20th, 2012
2:53 pm
All of you sure do talk a lot its trash. Fact one frank wren has done a great job considering ownership is a bunch of tight wads now that he has done money and wants our line up to be well rounded you all think he doesn’t know what he is doing. Second I would like josh hamilton as much as the next guy its not going to happen the braves have never I repeat never given a contact for more than 100 mil third uggla while frustrating at times is still a great player how many second baseman hit 19 homers or drove in as many runs as he did? even though his batting average want good his on base was. Finally the best combination for out fielders is victorino cf and cody ross in left fills our lead off and right hand power void. So there talk trash about that!
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
2:56 pm
Efrim, good point. Prado isn’t exactly going to be a young free agent. Not old either but he’s not likely to get any better than what he is right now.
jfp
November 20th, 2012
2:57 pm
Efrim,
I agree with you about Prado, just think he’s worth a little more. Maybe closer to 12 per year. He is one of our best players, if not the best. Don’t think he is a secret to anyone now. He would probably bring more on the free agent market, but I believe the Braves will lock him up before that and they need to.
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
2:59 pm
pastornicky and spruill makes a nice package
RC
November 20th, 2012
3:07 pm
We suffered under the incompetence of Time Warner. LM has been a steady, boring force.
I think that is an incredibly fair statement. I personally don’t mind the “boring force”, since I feel like the decision makers have very good processes that drive what they do, and they continued to put out a good product in spite of the payroll restrictions placed on them. But that’s probably somewhat my personality…I value stability over “making a splash” in the FA/trade market. In recent history it seems that the teams that make the biggest “splash” tend to be the ones that have things blow up in their face more often (Marlins and Red Sox come immediately to mind).
Ward
November 20th, 2012
3:10 pm
According to sources, Baves are expecting to lose Bourn……
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
3:13 pm
No sh*t Ward?!
Could you tell me something I didn’t already know early August?
Ward
November 20th, 2012
3:15 pm
Well, this is the latest Info, and think we all can say now that Bourn isn’t coming back.
jfp
November 20th, 2012
3:16 pm
Ward, thanks for the update. I thought their pursuit of Upton was a diversion. So that everyone else would pursue Upton and Bourn would be left for us alone to sign.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
3:18 pm
Like I said, I think something in the four year $38 million dollar range for Prado makes sense. $7.5 million in 2013 – last year of arb. $10.5 million per year 2014-2016
P'cola Brave
November 20th, 2012
3:18 pm
If the Nationals resign Laroche and sign a CF (Bourn, Upton, etc.) This would make Michael Morse expendable. Would the Braves have interest or the fact that he plays for a division rival wipe that out?
Rick C
November 20th, 2012
3:21 pm
P’cola Brave, yeah I’ve mentioned Morse here as a possibility a couple times. I kind of doubt though that the Nats would want to trade him within the division, and the same with the Braves and their prospects. Although, the Nats have an open spot in their rotation so maybe they would be interested in Delgado? Morse has a good contract but only one year left on it.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
3:28 pm
@shaun, thanks for the response. based on what your response I do agree with you. I was just wondering on the basis of your thought process in regards to Upton.
Luman Harris
November 20th, 2012
3:32 pm
Liberty Mutual is not the problem, people.
Braves may have a $100 million payroll this year.
Stop using “tightwad ownership” as an excuse.
Ray
November 20th, 2012
3:32 pm
In regards to LM being a boring force. Thank you. I prefer ownership to let the baseball people do their job. Braves were awful when Turner was making a lot of the baseball decisions. As soon as he and Steinbrenner turned those decisions to the baseball people, the teams respectfully turned around. Same way with Baltimore here in the last couple of years. Do you really want a Loria as an owner? That’s what I thought.
Luman Harris
November 20th, 2012
3:34 pm
Liberty Media is not the problem either! (Hate it when I start on margaritas too early in the day.)
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
3:44 pm
“… Finally the best combination for out fielders is victorino cf and cody ross in left fills our lead off and right hand power void…” – Joe
Finally!
and, Thank You !!!
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
3:48 pm
Hate it when I start on margaritas too early in the day
I do not find “too early” and “margaritas” in the same sentence all that often.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
3:51 pm
I tweeted Upton about an hour ago about when he would be announcing that he’ll be playing in Atlanta and still no response so it doesn’t look like we’ll get an answer anytime soon folks…sorry. I know many will be disappointed. I’ll keep y’all updated and as soon as I hear back from him you guys will be the 1st to know.
Tron
November 20th, 2012
3:52 pm
You will look back at all your blogging and wished you had done something worthwhile..
Ward
November 20th, 2012
3:52 pm
I think if Wren trades for Fowlers, and signs B.J. Upton. That would be the end of Cody Ross talk, but I’m still in favor of Cody Ross, unless Wren, plans on something else?
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
3:53 pm
Mixxo
November 20th, 2012
3:44 pm
“… Finally the best combination for out fielders is victorino cf and cody ross in left fills our lead off and right hand power void…” – Joe
Finally!
and, Thank You !!!
So much wrong with this statement. The fact that Mixxo agrees just confirms it as well.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
3:55 pm
Like I said before, “I won’t be disappoineted if B.J. doesn’t sign. He is my frist choice along with Cody Ross, but I’m open to other possiblities, as well. Lots of good out fielders out there.”
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
3:56 pm
You will look back at all your blogging and wished you had done something worthwhile..
I’m retired, from an entire bleepin’ life of worthwhile. Allow me a few moments of drivel in my waning years, willya?
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
3:59 pm
Speaking of drivel, “SEC domination” gets put to the test this weekend, wouldn’t you say? I mean, except for the Georgia-Georgia Tech game. Even the Dawgs ought to be able to handle that one.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
4:00 pm
Waning years Scoots?
We don’t need to grab the shovel and the duct tape do we?
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
4:02 pm
We don’t need to grab the shovel and the duct tape do we?
No. I could still kick your butt from here to January.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
4:05 pm
How’s nolie?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
4:08 pm
Scoots-
You probably could about now…..ribs are finally healed though from my diving headlong in a game…..BUT I haven’t lifted a weight or done any cardio in 3 months
DS1
November 20th, 2012
4:08 pm
Butt kicking? Did I hop on at the right time?
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
4:10 pm
P-Town
You must really be at the top of your game when it comes to video game skills then.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
4:11 pm
scoots “SEC domination” gets put to the test this weekend, wouldn’t you say? I mean, except for the Georgia-Georgia Tech game
what matchups are you referring to? USC clemson? FSU Florida? i dont think those two matchups will be all that telling either way. clemson is pretty good and USC is without their best player. FSU and Florida are evenly matched. (i always root for the noles, by the way)
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
4:15 pm
scoots “SEC domination” gets put to the test this weekend, wouldn’t you say? I mean, except for the Georgia-Georgia Tech game
Remember a few years ago when the 2 ACC divisional champions (Clemson and GT) got beat by 2nd-tier SEC teams (USC and UGA) the week before the championship game?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
4:15 pm
BP-
I wish…..house work and getting engaged and all of the lists I am given and then adding my work schedule, HS football, College Basketball to that….
Its amazing I had devoted as much time to ball as I did….
Not sure whats its going to be like going forward because I was playing 3 nights a week and then tournaments every couple weekends….but the lady has liked having me around since I got hurt….
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
4:15 pm
BP-
That said, I could still probably take you in WWE 13
Joey G
November 20th, 2012
4:17 pm
If FW is going to spend $75 mil for Upton, why not trade 3 pitchers (Delgado/Teheran, Hanson and Spuill) and Cunningham to MN for Span and Willingham. Then spend the money to sign Kyle Loshe?
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
4:20 pm
i dont think those two matchups will be all that telling either way
Nor I, frankly. Just messin’ with the folks who think football is only played in the SEC.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
4:20 pm
Man, the Royals had some real tough luck with near all of their pitching prospects: Mike Montgomery, Chris Dwyer underperformed – Danny Duffy and John Lamb underwent TJ surgery..
They still have a ton of depth: Jake Odorizzi, Kyle Zimmer, Yordano Ventura, J.C. Sulbaran, Sam Selman, Jason Adam.
Crazy amounts of pitching.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
4:24 pm
Remember a few years ago
Absolutely. It’s been made clear to Dabo that the faithful are getting a little antsy about losses to the Gamecocks.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
4:27 pm
Because, you don’t trade Cunningham, who could end up a Brave in a few years. You let him develope. Can’t trade all your prospects.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
4:27 pm
It’s been made clear to Dabo that the faithful are getting a little antsy about losses to the Gamecocks
Hope he wears his A-sweatshirt on Saturday
N8
November 20th, 2012
4:27 pm
It’s not my money, so i really don’t care if a free agent signing or a trade is considered overpaying.
But what happens when you overpay for somebody is that the contract becomes more important than fielding the best player, or the possibility is there.
Derek Lowe for example proably wasn’t in the “best 5″ group of starters towards the end of the 2011 season (his last in Atlanta). But because he was being paid 15 million smacks, he wasn’t coming out of the rotation. THAT is where overpaying for somebody comes into play.
All I ask is two things.
A) Improve the lineup over last year. 1-8 in the lineup. Some of that will come from moves. Some of it might come from guys already here having better years (Uggla), or guys already here who didn’t start the season in Atlanta and missed time due to injury (Simmons). Clearly, Uggla can’t be any worse. Well I guess he could suck slugging wise and stop taking walks, so I guess it could get worse.
Simmons for 162 games WILL be an upgrade over Pastornicky and Janish for half of the season. No real argument there. And obviously, Heyward and Freeman can continue to grow.
B) Don’t take on a contract that will hinder the future of the club. Would Josh Hamilton improve our offense in 2013? Yup. No real doubt about it. But that would be a disaster. Would BJ Uptom improve the club for 2013? Hard to say. On the surface because he is RH and seems to be a fine player, in the very least it keeps things “the same” or allows for a sideways move of consistency. But at 15 million per year? Not sure about that. That’s 28 million combined for Uggla and Upton and you really don’t know what you can count on in terms of them carrying a club for 162 games. Both very streaky.
I’m back to thinking that while Upton is a “semi-sexy” pickup, because it looks like Wren is making a “big” move……. going after a combo of Pagan, Willingham or Span might be the safer bet. Might cost a couple of prospects. But you can ALWAYS replace prospects. Getting rid of bad contracts or not being able to do so, can cripple a club moving forward.
Add to that, adding Span and Willingham probably gives us as much production as adding BJ and whoever else Frank might try and get.
Now, If Wren wanted to take a HUGE gamble and go after BOTH Upton brothers? That could be interesting. Shawn would never understand this, but there is a side of me that says put the two brothers together on the same team and you might just get the best out of both of them moving forward.
That being said, that’s a LOT of money (and a ton of prospects to get Justin) to gamble on the chance that two brothers might play better together.
But talk about a good, young “in their prime” core of players?
BJ Upton
Justin Upton
Jason Heyward
Freddie Freeman
Martin Prado
Andrelton Simmons?
That’s 6 of 8 regulars under the age of 30 either in their prime or about to enter it.
I don’t know what to think and who i WANT Wren to go after. I’m not going to gripe either way. To me there aren’t any obvious choices and like i said…. it’s not my money.
Just so long as the CF/leadoff battle isn’t between Schafer and Constanza and 3B isn’t handed to Francisco…… It will be a start.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
4:29 pm
FSU and Florida are evenly matched.
Evenly matched? LOL “Fear the Spear!” Noles win big over those Gators… it’s gonna be a chopout.
As for the GT-UGA game, GT may as well give up now. They’re that bad. And they get the ‘Noles after that. Poor them. A .500 team playing in the ACC title game, and will be a 6-7 team heading into a bowl game.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
4:30 pm
Mike Montgomery, Chris Dwyer underperformed
Yeah, but both are left-handed and have a pulse, so there’s no giving up on them yet. And the Royals would have to be extremely unlucky, like Pittsburgh unlucky, to have all those guys flame out.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
4:31 pm
N8 – Good post, and I will talk later tonight! All, have a good one! Hope something good comes out of all this……. I’m still within hope! Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
4:34 pm
Evenly matched? LOL “Fear the Spear!” Noles win big over those Gators… it’s gonna be a chopout.
Just like they chopped out that juggernaut NC State.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
4:36 pm
N8-
Wasn’t quite sure what to think of your post, but we can agree on that last statement….
People can b*tch and moan about everything, but I’d like to hope that ANY option Frank comes up w/ is better than Francisco, Constanza, and/or Schafer…..
Upton or otherwise.
UKUGA
November 20th, 2012
4:37 pm
N8,
Interesting read. Still not sure if Derek Lowe was allowed to keep blowing our play-off spot in 2011 because he was getting paid $15 million, or because he was, well, Derek Lowe.
After-all, Kenshin Kawakami and his $9 million annual salary spent a full season in AAA, right?
Luman Harris
November 20th, 2012
4:38 pm
I don’t know which is more entertaining:
The season, when 98 percent of blog denizens are sure they know more than the manager
Or the off-season, when 98 percent of blog denizens are sure they know more than the GM
O.M.G.
November 20th, 2012
4:41 pm
If we get BJ for $15M, where would that rank him on the highest paid players list on the team?
UKUGA
November 20th, 2012
4:42 pm
Money + baseball people = great success
Lack of money + baseball people = limited success
Billionaires can spend a ton of money and make stupid baseball decisions.
Billionaires can spend a ton of money and make smart baseball decisions.
Poor folks cannot spend a ton of money, regardless of their decisions.
Give me the rich owners who want to spend.
After-all, Ted Turner did ultimately get out of the way, and the Braves won big. Once corporate ownership took over, the payroll declined, and so did the success.
Some of the same great baseball minds in the front office the last 12 years that were there from 1990 – 2000.
What changed? The dollars. (And the wins, too).
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
4:45 pm
Just like they chopped out that juggernaut NC State.
Hate to be reminded of that… cost us a chance at a Nat’l Title berth. I’m expecting it to stay within 10 points, but Noles win.
Luman Harris
November 20th, 2012
4:45 pm
What, so you can’t win unless you have a top-5 or top-10 payroll?
Why would all the other teams even bother to compete?
Dawg Fan
November 20th, 2012
4:45 pm
Wren, Please don’t get Upton!! Either spend a little more and get a proven star in Hamilton or go after Angel Pagan and then trade for a PROVEN outfield star. I don’t care that Hamilton is a lefty.
Signing Upton will be putting all of our marbles in one bag. If he doesn’t produce, then our salary is locked up for several years, leaving no flexibility.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
4:46 pm
TOBF Evenly matched? LOL “Fear the Spear!” Noles win big over those Gators… it’s gonna be a chopout.
florida might be better than you think. i do hope for a “chopout” though.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
4:46 pm
Noles win
….the coin toss
Hillbilly
November 20th, 2012
4:47 pm
If we get BJ for $15M, where would that rank him on the highest paid players list on the team?
First…and that’s one of the biggest issues I have with the idea.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
4:49 pm
No to Pagan. Guy is going to make way more money than he is worth based on a decent playoff run and is a terrible clubhouse guy. Stay away Wren…far far away.
RC
November 20th, 2012
4:49 pm
If we get BJ for $15M, where would that rank him on the highest paid players list on the team?
First…and that’s one of the biggest issues I have with the idea.
Someone has to be first. Better BJ than Derek Lowe.
O.M.G.
November 20th, 2012
4:50 pm
Hillbilly, thanks that is what I thought. If he is going to be the highest paid player on the team shouldn’t he be the best player on the team. Clearly he would not be. Not even close.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
4:50 pm
If we get BJ for $15M, where would that rank him on the highest paid players list on the team?
He would be the highest paid player… over Uggla at 13mil and BMac at 12. Both players that I’d expect to outperform him.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
4:50 pm
Luman Harris – Or the off-season, when 98 percent of blog denizens are sure they know more than the GM
Count me as a denizen who knows far far less than the GM. Yet, there is nothing wrong with tossing out my uninformed opinion, right?
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
4:50 pm
Someone has to be first. Better BJ than Derek Lowe.
I agree. Sports salaries aren’t determined by who’s the most valuable.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
4:53 pm
florida might be better than you think. i do hope for a “chopout” though.
Oh, I know they are. But I’m thinking that FSU is better than *gasp* Georgia, and the Dawgs handled them fine. Oh, how I wish FSU joined the SEC over Mizzou….
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
4:53 pm
Yeah, scoots – I expect some of them to contribute and be fixtures in the rotation soon. They have a good blend of pitchers and hitters in their system.
RC
November 20th, 2012
4:53 pm
No to Pagan. Guy is going to make way more money than he is worth based on a decent playoff run and is a terrible clubhouse guy.
While I don’t think Pagan is a great option for the Braves either, can we PLEASE stop using “he’s a bad clubhouse guy” as if any of us have a freakin’ clue about any of these players? All anyone has shown of that is based on one anonymous quote from some Mets player when the team was a trainwreck anyway. Beltran was supposedly a “cancer”….until he signed with the Cardinals and appeared to be a model teammate.
From this point forward, please refrain from pretending you know anything about a player’s character, and simply judge the guy based on his play on the field.
Cept for Yunel. That guy’s a jerk
richbrave
November 20th, 2012
4:54 pm
I’m a big MIKE MORSE fan. Would love him in LF. RH bat, average L-fielder
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
4:56 pm
Sometimes I wonder about FO moves. For instance, the Royals claimed Chris Volstad off of waivers about three weeks ago. Today they designated him for assignment to clear room for Rule V protection. What upside was there to claiming Volstad off of waivers? What was the point of that?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
4:58 pm
Gary Sheffield was supposed to be an evil clubhouse force, but as far as I know, he turned out to be a good teammate during his time here.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
4:58 pm
TOBF Oh, I know they are. But I’m thinking that FSU is better than *gasp* Georgia, and the Dawgs handled them fine
they might be, but probably not. better hope you have a linebacker go insane like jarvis jones. dude had as many sacks and tackles in one game as alot of guys have in a good season.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
4:58 pm
Oh, how I wish FSU joined the SEC over Mizzou…
So they could lose to Vanderbilt instead of NC State?
But seriously…SEC expansion was about markets, not about teams. Missouri and TAMU joined because the SEC didn’t have any markets in Texas and Missouri. No way FSU or Clemson would’ve joined because the SEC already had pull in FLA and SC
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
4:59 pm
Dayton finally DFA’d Brayan Pena. Impressive that guy has hung around the majors for 8 seasons.
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
5:00 pm
Dayton finally DFA’d Brayan Pena. Impressive that guy has hung around the majors for 8 seasons.
…
One more “season” and Pena could end his career with the same length of tenure and “better” numbers than Joe Simpson.
single white dove
November 20th, 2012
5:04 pm
What about signing david wright and angle pagan?
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
5:07 pm
What about signing david wright and angle pagan?
Angle’s too obtuse :p
Lew
November 20th, 2012
5:07 pm
First off – this post is NOT apersonal preference or reccomendation for who we should acquire. It is merely the result of an exercise just to “See” what the results might be within certain narrow parameters. I based it on the premise that “We have to replace Chipper and Bourn’s performances” and this is strictly an offensive comparison of what am acquistion of BJ and Cody Ross (like I said – merely an example) and only uses last years’ numbers.
Bourn and Chipper accounted for 127 BB, 462B, 10 3B, 23 HR and 43 SB.
Based on last years numbers, a replacement of their numbers with BJ and Cody Ross’s last years’, the result is this -
-40BB, +17 2B, -6 3B, +27 HR and -10 SB.
Like I said – just for the hell of it.
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
5:10 pm
Lew, you must also include the stunning good looks of Cody Ross. Ain’t no man alive who could speak ill of Ross with the way he looks.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
5:11 pm
Probably would be +100-120 Ks
I would look at runs scored/driven in, runs saved defensively, # of hits, etc. as well…
TennesseePaul
November 20th, 2012
5:13 pm
HA! I just pulled up an image or Cody to see what he looks like… I guess that’s Payne’s kind of guy. Perhaps he found his intrinsic beauty through a quantitative analysis of his bone structure and breadth of smile.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
5:13 pm
Ten Paul – OHHHHH Kay.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
5:14 pm
Only Braves – Yes, you would have, but I’m not anal nor did I desire getting into the comparison on the sub atomic level.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
5:18 pm
but I’m not anal nor did I desire getting into the comparison on the sub atomic level
Ha!
VaBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
5:20 pm
I really hope Cody Ross isn’t gonna be a Brave…. The guy had a good “slugging” season aided by playing in Fenway, and still managed to produce a pathetic OBP which was right around his career norm. He’s only a average defender at all three outfield spots and can mash LHP. He’d make a good platoon guy for sure but he wants to be paid like a everyday guy…
I like Upton cause of his power and speed combination but that 5 year 75 million estimated contract he’ll sign is a huge overpay, how on earth could this guy actually get 15 million a season… I’d say that’s about 5 million to much. Possibly more… No thanks.
richbrave
November 20th, 2012
5:22 pm
jeffrey d:
What’d you call me?
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
5:24 pm
Bourn: 135 runs offensively, and 38 defensively, 171 Hits, 155 Ks (244 TB)
Jones: 92 runs offensively, 4 defensively, 111 Hits, 51 Ks (176 TB)
Upton: 101 runs offensively, 2 defensively, 141 Hits, 169 Ks (260 TB)
Ross: 107 runs offensively, -5 defensively, 127 Hits, 129 Ks (229 TB)
Jones&Bourn: 227 runs offensively, 42 defensively (a total of 269 runs), 282 Hits, 210 Ks, 420 Total Bases
Upton&Ross: 208 runs offensively, -3 defensively (a total of 205 runs), 268 Hits, 298 Ks, 289 Total Bases
That was with Chipper missing considerable time, and the addition of Ross w/ Upton. It’s quite likely that whoever the LF is won’t be as valuable as Ross was.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
5:25 pm
Awesome? I wasn’t aware that I called you anything..
richbrave
November 20th, 2012
5:27 pm
N8:
My thinking on both UPTON’s tends to the polar opposite. They might try to monopolize the clubhouse convo and play on the field as well.
richbrave
November 20th, 2012
5:28 pm
N8:
Since we’re both divining here.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
5:29 pm
of course I meant 489 total bases for Upton and Ross…
richbrave
November 20th, 2012
5:29 pm
jeffrey d:
Heh! it’s a line from a movie………”SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION.” The main character calls the warden ‘obtuse’
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
5:35 pm
What’s the expected net gain or net loss in wins with Upton and Ross versus Jones and Bourn?
Also, after we factor in the likely improvement of McCann, what does that do to the expected win total?
That’s all we should really care about.
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
5:36 pm
What’s the expected net gain or net loss in wins with Upton and Ross versus Jones and Bourn?
Fine. Go ahead and tell us their WAR
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
5:38 pm
Change it to Span or Fowler (who IMO are likely acquisitions for LF)…
w/ Upton and Span: 205 runs offensively, 10 defensively, 287 Hits, 231 Ks, 92 BB, 464 TB
w/ Upton and Fowler: 200 runs offensively, -3 defensively, 277 Hits, 297 Ks, 113 BB, 475 BB
Still below where we were this season.
Bernard
November 20th, 2012
5:38 pm
I have not written all year!!!!!…another mediocre season, except Chipper was cool until that last game gaffe which I attended oh so very briely getting there late and leaving early…L.A. style. Upton, .246 hitter wow!!! are the Braves just TOTALLY INSANE OR WHAT????? pay me $1 million and I could bat higher than that????!!! duh
MFin04
November 20th, 2012
5:39 pm
“I like Upton cause of his power and speed combination but that 5 year 75 million estimated contract he’ll sign is a huge overpay, how on earth could this guy actually get 15 million a season… I’d say that’s about 5 million to much. Possibly more… No thanks.”
Yep. If you’re going to give him that, you mine as well overpay to keep Bourn who is a significantly more valuable player.
Really at this point, I think BJ Upton has to be the Ryan Dempster of the Braves deadline. No way they are actually going to do that deal, but they are just “talking” about it. Upton is just not worth that kind of money. He really isn’t. Especially if you can get a guy like Span and/or Willingham who would cost the same amount of money COMBINED (minus prospects).
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
5:40 pm
TOBF-
I still like Span out there and whether they admit it or not, Upton projects better over time as a corner OF….
While they could get that combo, it makes no sense to me having Span in LF and BJ in CF….although I’m sure given the money they would give BJ, it’d make sense to try and keep him as happy as can be….
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
5:41 pm
Have we signed Upton yet?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
5:42 pm
Fowler OTOH, I could see being moved to LF…..he just isn’t that great, even if you put into consideration that he plays in that vast park in Colorado….
FWIW, Span plays in a massive OF in Minny and has to cover LOTS of ground w/ Willingham in LF and the revolving door that has been RF there before Revere took that job.
MFin04
November 20th, 2012
5:44 pm
I’d rather have Schafer in CF and Hamilton in LF at this point than have to watch the Braves kill their future hopes and dreams by overpaying for BJ “I’ll never live up to my promise” Upton.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
5:45 pm
jeffrey d, it be best to look at Ross and Upton’s expected WAR for next season versus Chipper and Bourn’s from last season.
To look at how the how team might improve or decline, you would need to factor in any changes in expected WAR from all other players, of course. Most notably, we’d probably be talking McCann here. Also, having Simmons at shortstop all season may be significant.
Bourn had a career year and Chipper was pretty darn good, so without running the numbers, I would guess the Braves would take a bit of a hit in just those two spots. But go with someone like Willingham and Upton, that may even things out quite a bit.
It’s safe to say the Braves likely aren’t getting another 2012 Bourn type season from their centerfielder, even if they bring back Bourn.
Lew
November 20th, 2012
5:46 pm
Another mediocre season? Did you perhaps not tune in to the 94 wins?
VaBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
5:49 pm
Hell with it, trade for Span and Fowler. We’ll just play great defense and steal bases lol
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
5:51 pm
Shaun-
Agreed and no matter what some think, it’d be hard pressed to believe Uggla will have another below .400 SLG year and be who he was….
MFin04
November 20th, 2012
5:52 pm
Sad to say but the best player mentioned so far is Willingham. Haven’t really come up with a realistic CF option. I’m assuming if we get Willingham we can’t get Span. But I’d try a Marlins like deal to get both those guys. Justin and Fowler are too much products of their home parks. BJ is overrated and overpaid. Victorino seems to be over the hill and not a CF but I’d be willing to take a chance on him.