3:21 pm November 19, 2012, by Carroll Rogers
November 19th, 20127:20 pm
Rick C… he made a bunch of poor decisions that cost the Baltimore team from getting young talent and improve….. they were the highest payroll in baseball at the time and finished under .500…… he had a ton of money tied into old guys.
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“I’m really blown away by the love other cities are showing me right now. Can’t wait to see how this pans out.” And thats what Upton says after visiting Atlanta for six ?! Maybe im just taking that comment the wrong way….
As I posted on Sunday, combined, Uggla and Upton struck out 337 times (168 and 169, respectively). Upton walked half as much as Uggla (45 to 94).
In 2012, the Braves as a team had 1,289 strikeouts. Combined, Uggla and Upton would have accounted for 26% of the team’s strikeouts – 1 out of every 4 by just two hitters.
November 19th, 20127:21 pm
If everyone is valuing OBP so high, why don’t more people on here praise Dan Uggla? I mean his OBP was .348 this year. Just sayin….
I’d be much happier NOT to add another Dan Uggla-type player to this already high strikeout lineup.
Give me Dexter or Span.
November 19th, 20127:22 pm
“I’m really blown away by the love other cities are showing me right now. Can’t wait to see how this pans out.” And thats what Upton says after visiting Atlanta for six ?! Maybe im just taking that comment the wrong way….
Upton and his agent simply don’t want to tip their hands.
Peter, I asked for specifics. If you want to blame Wren for their failures, you must have at least one specific free agent signing, trade, or something that ruined them, no?
November 19th, 20127:23 pm
ncbravesfan90……because leadoff hitters should get on base……
Nobody is impressed with Uggla’s OBP. We didn’t bring him in to be a table setter.
November 19th, 20127:24 pm
Too many droughts with Uggla. He’s an inconsistent masher.
Frank Wren is gun shy……… someone name all his trades and signings…….. Tell us about the good ones, and the bad ones ?
Denard Span in center and Josh Willingham, save a ton of money and have a ton of flexibility…hello is anybody listening? What do you think?
The Twins will not trade BOTH guys… Span is more easily replaced for them…. Trade for Span, sign Swisher.
November 19th, 20127:25 pm
“…because leadoff hitters should get on base……
Nobody is impressed with Uggla’s OBP. We didn’t bring him in to be a table setter.”
Exactly. And we are not bringing Upton in here to be a leadoff hitter or a table setter, so therefore by your theory we shouldn’t even look at Upton’s OBP.
November 19th, 20127:26 pm
Rick C. he lasted ONE YEAR in Baltimore……. what else do you want to Know ? He crippled the club for years.
Tell me his shining achievements here in Atlanta in 5 years please !
November 19th, 20127:27 pm
I like Bourn he is the best fit. We need to sign him because he is our lead-off guy and centerfielder. Then we make a trade for Justin Upton to play left done deal.
November 19th, 20127:28 pm
For Rick C…….. from Wikipedia
When Pat Gillick resigned as GM of the Orioles at the close of the 1998 season, Wren was recruited as his replacement. But the 1999 Orioles were a major disappointment. The club finished six games under .500 despite one of the highest payrolls in the game and the signing of free agent slugger Albert Belle to the most lucrative contract in baseball at the time. During the season, Wren and the team were criticized publicly by Baltimore owner Peter Angelos, and after just one season, the owner replaced Wren with veteran executive Syd Thrift.
November 19th, 20127:29 pm
So you actually don’t have any facts or evidence to support your argument? Just because he got fired is enough evidence for you that he forever ruined the team. Got it.
My “theory”? I am not one of the ones wanting BJ Upton.
And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who sees the value of having a leadoff hitter with a high OBP
November 19th, 20127:30 pm
Jimiz. Gosh guys.. when are you going to understand he has an agent that the braves can’t work with ?
November 19th, 20127:33 pm
“And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who sees the value of having a leadoff hitter with a high OBP”
I agree, a leadoff hitter needs to have a high OBP. Upton would not come here to be the leadoff hitter so he would not need to have a high OBP. It can’t be both ways, we can’t knock Upton for his low OBP and not praise Uggla for his high OBP. But the reality is that Uggla had the same OBP as our leadoff hitter, Bourn.
Rick C . Albert Belle for starters Rick C.
November 19th, 20127:34 pm
lol, so now you cite wikipedia? What are you in high school? Even that excerpt doesn’t give any specific examples. I guess you can argue that they overpaid for Belle, but he hit 297/400/541 with 37 HR and 117 RBI that year. He was forced to retire after 2000, and the Orioles were largely reimbursed for the rest of the contract due to the insurance policy. So I’m not sure how that ruined them by any means.
It is starting to look more possible that the Braves could be the team to acquire both Upton brothers.
Today, The Indians said that Asdrubal Cabrera is available for trade. He has been an All Star SS in the last few years. A trade of Nick Ahmed and a Tommy Hanson or a Sean Gilmartin might do the trick. Then, the Braves could trade Cabrera, Teheran and another lower Minor leaguer for Justin Upton.
I personally, Would rather trade for Cabrera, ship him to the Rangers for Mike Olt, Sign Josh Hamilton and have an OF of Hamilton in RF, Heyward in CF and Prado in LF. Sign Reed Johnson and Scott Hariston in case of injury and to give the Hamilton and Heyward a occaisonal rest against LHed pitching.
3B Olt or 2B Uggla( whoever is hot)
C McCann or Laird
Uggla/Olt (whoever isn’t hot)
If, the price for Hamilton is beyond reason, I would return to the Twins and try to trade for Span or Revere
November 19th, 20127:36 pm
Peter Angelos was the problem and Wren was a victim of his meddling. Peter you are extremely misinformed. I lived there and fans hated Angelos. Angelos had the money to do a character assassination on Wren. In the end “insider baseball” knew the real goings on. Wren is one of the most respected GM’s in baseball. Most fans are not as informed with correct info as they think they are.
Peter, you obviously have not done any of your own research. Just talking out of your ass and thinking you know everything after reading one paragraph on wikipedia.
.211 with RISP. That’s all that needs to be said. This is the last Free Agent we need to be pursuing.
November 19th, 20127:39 pm
I guess wjat is good for the goose is not for the gander DO ?
We’re about to get BJ Upton, Josh Hamilton & possibly Michael Bourn !
I hope you hayseeds are happy with Jordan Schafer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That’s exactly why I don’t want Upton. It would be a huge mistake to add yet ANOTHER high strikeout hitter to this lineup. We saw the lack of contact rear it’s ugly head way too much last season. I really hope Wren knows better than this, but apparently he does not.
And please don’t bring up Uggla. I’m just waiting on that horrible contract to be up so we can finally forget about that epic mistake.
I work at a bar near Buckhead. He comes in quite frequently and very often stays past 2:30-3 am getting HAMMERED. I’ve worked on at least 5 or 6 nights where he’s been there before a day game. And ALWAYS takes on 0-for the next day.
November 19th, 20127:41 pm
Philley Phanatic is a lame Braves “fan” who is trying to stir up sht with ppl in here bc his life is so empty this is what he does for fun.
It’s PHILLY you nuttsack.
November 19th, 20127:43 pm
“Wren is one of the most respected GM’s in baseball” – PuddyCat
Too bad his track record doesn’t support your statement. Teixeira for Kotchman. Soriano for Chavez. Derek Lowe. Dan Uggla. Kinchen Kawakami.
How much more money is he going to squander?
If Atlanta had a critical fan base and sports media Frank Wren would have been fired a long time ago.
November 19th, 20127:45 pm
Where do I fit into Frank’s master plan?
November 19th, 20127:47 pm
Matt Diaz could be the back up to the back up catcher
November 19th, 20127:48 pm
Braves’ Nation . You seem to forget the corporate environment the braves are under……. It is like playing for the Post office..no one no matter how poorly they do get’s fired.
Bobby Cox was the greatest manager ever……. gee he even went 1-5 in the World Series and the last time got swept 4-0.
Wren is respected highly within the industry. Busboys, bartenders, fry boys, cashiers and most entry level workers love to take shots at him. I guess it makes fans feel if they try and tear him down it somehow raises them above him. Sad
November 19th, 20127:50 pm
PuddyCat … ok tell us how he has worked miracles for the braves….especially all those clever deals within the baseball community ?
November 19th, 20127:51 pm
Man oh man the trolls are out tonight. Carroll get your banning finger ready
November 19th, 20127:52 pm
Peter go to bed and quit being obnoxious
November 19th, 20127:55 pm
darkcow please take out the trash and finish your homework. ask your Mom for some warm milk and cookies.
Dan Uggla had an excellent eye and earned a lot of walks. That made him more valuable than BJ Upton would be. I think it is an excellent point to compare Upton to Uggla. Uggla’s prime problem is that he struck out too much. He struck out more last year than Upton did!
Upton just walked a lot less.
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November 19th, 20127:56 pm
lol now Peter wants specifics? Oh the irony.
November 19th, 20127:57 pm
I hope your Phils get all three. Nothing like being top-heavy with payroll – along with all the other oldsters and walking-wounded on your team.
Wren is putting on a good front for Liberty Media , drive up the price so your rivals will have to pay more to sign free agents. Braves already have their CF for 2013 ,Jordan Schaefer .Just the type of player Liberty likes,one that plays for less than 1M a year.Braves should take a flyer on an old nemesis to play CF . Shane Victorino used to be a thorn in the Braves side when he was in Philly .Could be a good short term fix, while the Braves wait for some of their younger talent to develop.
Thank you darkcow, i needed a laugh. That was hilarious. I dont think ive seen nuttsack inserted into a sentence so eloquently before.
I still like the option of Denard Span. It allows us to move some of our excess pitching pieces and keeps our payroll free to splurge on a power bat for LF (It’s easier to find a power hitter for a corner position than Center). Upton brings a low OBP and some attitude problems.
Why not trade one or two of our disappointing prospects (Hanson, Delgado, Tehran) and get someone who fits what we need more? We need a leadoff hitter and won’t find a good one in LF. Martin Prado is not a leadoff hitter.
We keep looking for a big right handed bat and it never pans out (Uggla). Time to start looking at our real needs.
November 19th, 20127:58 pm
We found the culprit! Go do something productive, Chip. You sorry sack of poop
November 19th, 20127:59 pm
My choice for center would be Span, as well.
So Peter, that year the Yanks swept the Braves in the World Series, were the other teams besides the Yankees who did not get swept better than the Braves?
To get swept in the World Series, you have to be in the World Series, a place where all but two teams failed to reach.
November 19th, 20128:00 pm
Complain, complain, complain. I knew this offseason was going to be unbearable around here. No matter who the Braves get, there will be outrage. No one is ever good enough, they’re always too expensive, they’re always the wrong guy. It’s amazing to me how much smarter some of you guys think you are than people who actually so this for a living. Can we at least see how this all shakes out before declaring it a disaster?
November 19th, 20128:04 pm
Great PR move by taking BJ Upton out for a steak dinner. Keep the fans interested, even though we won’t be signing Upton or any other big name.
As long as we win 85-90 games, stay in the hunt at least til Labor Day, we should make a healthy profit and you’ll get your bonus at the end of each season.
You’ve been a loyal soldier, Frank.
By the way, increase hot dog prices another 50 cents next season. I’ve got a son starting college at Harvard next fall.
November 19th, 20128:09 pm
The Braves haven’t sniffed the World Series in over a decade. No reason to think they’re gonna do so.
November 19th, 20128:10 pm
Peter — You know that Wren was GM in Baltimore for only one yr and as for the sign of Albert Belle, Belle was a great hitter till an arthritic hip injury cut his career short.
He did have a good yr his first yr over there and it was in his second yr in Baltimore he had the hip trouble (if my memory serves me right). See Baseball Reference.
November 19th, 20128:20 pm
Upton is ok but unless Frank catches lightning in a bottle, he’s not the impact player the Braves need. I hope the same serious effort is made for Hamilton up to 20m/5. We can trade for a .340 obs somebody to lead off.
November 19th, 20128:21 pm
Now that I’m retired and off the payroll, I have one final thing to say to the fans of Braves’ Nation, wherever you might be:
Dan Uggla is the poorest excuse of a major leaguer that I’ve ever seen ! To think he made as much money as I did makes me wanna puke !
Man up, Dan !
Spend more time in the batting cage and less time on the weight bench !
Earn the fans’ respect !
November 19th, 20128:23 pm
Why would you want Justin Upton?
.284/.388/.512/.900 line vs. lefties. And despite the effect of Chase Field, I’m sure that Justin will be able to play at a high level at the Ted. He’s put up good road numbers before.
November 19th, 20128:24 pm
‘Bazz checking in for the first time as a collegiate. Ugh.
Those exclamation points are so powerful the words need to take a step away!
November 19th, 20128:28 pm
Please don’t sign Upton. I’m sure, as he admitted, he is blown away by all the love. He probably can’t believe he is gonna get paid so much money for what he has done.
The last thing we need is another 5 year contract with a guy that is gonna strike out 165 to 180 times! Unbelievable!
November 19th, 20128:30 pm
TOBF, awesome stats against lefties, too bad lefthanders make up about 10% of staffs/rotations. Not gonna pay a guy $10mil a year to hit lefties – hell, we can get Matt Diaz or Johnson to do that for ~ $1-2 mil a year.
November 19th, 20128:36 pm
My personal choice for the Braves moves would be to acquire Asdrubal Cabrera without having to include Nick Ahmed( put Joel Peraza in the trade instead)and ship him to Texas for Mike Olt. Then, trade for either Span or Revere. See if any team would take Uggla in a trade for the Braves paying half his salary.
Lineup: Span/Revere $6.5 for Span, Revere$.5
Ahmed $ .5
Olt $ .5
Prado $9 for 5 years
Total Starting Lineup $33 million with Span, $27 Million with Revere
Every position player is 28 years old and under with All Star ability!
Use the extra payroll to extend players contracts and or sign a high end starting pitcher either this year(Greinke) or when David Price becomes to expensive for the Rays
November 19th, 20128:37 pm
What the H$$$ are you talking about? We’re not looking at getting an All Star in Upton…..?
You want to pay $15 million a year for 5 years for a non-all star player???????
Sorry but I don’t get it…..
Also have to disagree about Francouer being the “worst player in baseball” or what ever you called him….
November 19th, 20128:38 pm
We don’t need another 240 average hitter! Uggla is killing the lineup and another 240 hitter is just plain stupid!!
November 19th, 20128:43 pm
TOBF, awesome stats against lefties, too bad lefthanders make up about 10% of staffs/rotations.
Closer to 38%, hence the Braves struggled mightily against LHP last season. Upton has an .808 OPS vs RHP, .453 SLG. If you can find me a RH batter who OPS’s over .800 against both sides, slugs over .450 against both (.500 against LHP), and hasn’t yet reached or has just reached their prime, do let me know.
November 19th, 20128:45 pm
Closer to 38%
So he’ll only suck 62% of the time.
NO MORE FREDI
November 19th, 20128:46 pm
I already hear the boo birds on this signing. Bring him here and this should be the player that sends Frank out of Atlanta. How many bad deals can he do before the Braves have enough? If this were any other real job he would have been canned after the Kawakami deal.
November 19th, 20128:48 pm
Good god. Upton? Yes, let’s sign another low batting order k machine who plays good defense like Alex Gonzalez and put him in center.
Nothin ever changes around here.
November 19th, 20128:49 pm
The lemmings have all lined up with Frank Wren…and the players he traded are the real winners !
Congratulations to Omar Infante, and to Gregor Blanco… players I prefer………..but hey why root for winners ?
November 19th, 20128:50 pm
Nope! He can actually handle RHP. Unlike Diaz, he can slug in the 400s against RHP
November 19th, 20128:53 pm
If this were any other real job he would have been canned after the Kawakami deal
1) Why would a systems analysist hire Kenshin Kawakami?
2) Can you name 1 GM who hasn’t made a bad deal? And what about Jurrjens for Renteria? Vazquez for Flowers? Vizcaino for Vazquez? Bourn for Schafer? And, pan the Uggla deal if you want, but he OPS’ed .877, .813, and .874 in the 3 years before he came to Atlanta. Quit using hindsight to judge this deal (I still think Uggla will prove himself throughout his contract)
I already hear the boo birds on this signing
You mean you? You complain and b*tch about everything. You’d complain about free money. You’d complain about a 3 day weekend. You’d complain if someone gave you a dozen cupcakes that burned fat and built muscle.
November 19th, 20128:54 pm
$ 15 mil a year for a .246 hitter ? That means you should get $1 mil a year for just showing up. This is insanity. I can hit .246 and so can most men in my neighborhood.
November 19th, 20128:55 pm
If our so-called tightfisted owners balk at this deal, I don’t blame them.
November 19th, 20128:56 pm
Relax Braves Fans
As disturbing as it is that Wren would consider signing Upton, some idiot GM will out bid him and then they’ll be stuck long term with .240 and 175 Ks. Kinda like our Uggla although .240 is a little high and 175 Ks a little low for Uggs!
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 19th, 20128:58 pm
Omar Infante, career OPS+ 91. Gregor Blanco, career OPS+ 88.
November 19th, 20128:59 pm
I can hit .246 and so can most men in my neighborhood.
No you can’t!!
The owners have no say in these matters. They just sign the check.
I know being logical hasn’t always been our strong suit, but this is what we’re coming to??
November 19th, 20129:00 pm
Braves need a definitive right-handed power presence.Hamilton fits the bill.Only then go after a CF.
November 19th, 20129:01 pm
Kaepernick looking REALLY good tonight!!! Go Niners!!!
November 19th, 20129:03 pm
And what incentive do the D-backs have to trade him? And why would the Braves give up a package that most likely starts with Simmons, Teheran/Delgado (or both) and probably one of Spruill/Gilmartin, along with another top 10 prospect, to get J.Upton?
November 19th, 20129:04 pm
Last I checked, Dan, Hamilton is a LH hitter….
Forget the stats. Will Upton help our team get hot in the postseason? That’s what’s it’s all about.
It doesn’t matter if someone strikes out 2% more or get on based 10 times less during the regular season.
November 19th, 20129:05 pm
No more left-handed hitters,Bourn included. Should NEVER have let FURCAL go.So what if he likes the sauce.Assign him a 24-hr chauffer
November 19th, 20129:06 pm
Those Niners have what it takes to get in the SB, hey, a special teams mistake in last yrs NFC championship game cost em vs the Giants.
Truth be told the Niners were a better team than the NYG, but got nicked in a competitive championship game.
Last yrs SB should have been Baltimore vs SF, but you know how shoulda woulda coulda is.
Baitimore missed out on a chip shot FG miss.
NYG and NE were very good, but fate was on their side getting to the SB.
November 19th, 20129:07 pm
Joey M: “The only person here that would enjoy a BJ Upton signing is Terrence Moore. And it’s not because Upton is a superstar or anything.”
What exactly does this mean??
November 19th, 20129:08 pm
Upton also led the NL in errors for an OF in 2008, 2009 and 2011, and he’s 7th in total errors among all active OFs – after 5 seasons? Wow…yeah, let’s give up our awesome SS to hurry and get this guy…
Forget the stats?
More often than not, the teams that make the playoffs are the ones that rank near the top in run differential… so trying to put together a team with this premise in mind is important. Evaluating and projecting stats isn’t nonsense.
November 19th, 20129:09 pm
By the way, after the Toronto Debacle, the Marlins made quite a splash by signing their own CF – Juan Pierre.
Their management team makes Frank Wren, Terry McGuirk, and Liberty Media look like the George Steinbrenner Yankees, circa 1990’s.
I’d be OK with trading Ahmed, Teheran or Delgado, Spruill or Gilmartin and one or two others for Upton. I think D-Backs would do that deal. Ahmed is gaining steam in the AFL and could be a substitute for D-Backs knowing they aren’t getting Simmons.
my bad,jnick…my point is hire biggest,baddest RH hitter braves bucks can buy…..dangle uggla as trade bait….2 subpar years is enough,don’t chance 1 more.
November 19th, 20129:11 pm
Let’s see Wren pull off some serious trades this winter. Forget these free agents. They are clearly not his thing. His trades, for the most part, have turned out pretty well. Will the HUGE exception of Uggla, of course.
4. J Upton
November 19th, 20129:13 pm
One way or another , if this goes down it will be a controversial sign.
If it does happen, I pray for the sake of BJ and the FO that he at least gets off to a good start.
I am going to be behind it one way or the other. Wish the best for the player regardless where he winds up.
Not every power hitter can be a Chipper and have a .400 OBP and hit with the big power. We might never see a batting eye like that here again — Chipper was to the Braves what Herschel was to UGA football history.
Get em next yr Uggla and putthe haters in their place. U can do it.
November 19th, 20129:14 pm
Darkcow, please, no Fowler…he’s probably the worst defensive CF in all of baseball, and check out his home/road splits…he’s terrible away from Coors.
BFChris28, why would you gut our farm system for 1 guy?
Being a UK basketball fan has taught me that the best team does not always win… and the SF loss last year is proof (2 Kyle Williams mistakes actually). I loved that SF-NO game, hated the SF-NYG game.
I see the Niners in the NFC championship or further again this year.
November 19th, 20129:16 pm
I bet if J and BJ played on the same team, their production would both be better. I have nothing really to base this on, but I just feel like they would really enjoy it and play looser. Maybe the sibling rivalry will push each of them a little more as well. I don’t know. But it would be cool to see and we have the means to do it.
For one, it wouldn’t be gutting the farm system to that level. It’d only be one of the two, not both or all of them. Besides there’s plenty of talent in the wings being cultivated. JR Graham, Navery Moore and a few others to boot.
November 19th, 20129:17 pm
Simmons is a RH star on the rise,don’t trade him…..get heyward protection in the lineup.Tired of the current lineup being abused by every LH pitcher under the sun…..hell,….Lannan owns us!
Alex who? Daaaaaamn… Kaepernick is picking the Bears apart.
JNick, I really haven’t looked at those numbers. Fowler really isn’t even my number 1 choice anyway. I would much rather have Revere. I think he’s going to be a very good player for a long time.
November 19th, 20129:18 pm
Francoeur was stupid! he had the chance to be paid when (McCann was paid 5 for $27M)and lucky for the Braves he turned them down. If Braves aren’t playing well come July deadline I can see Braves trading McCann too… I’d wouldn’t care if Bourn or Upton turns down 5 year for $75, that’s all they are worth and both have there pros and cons. Pagan is a step below them and should sign for around $10M per year. I’d give Hamilton 5 for $95 to $100M before I’d offer more for BOURN, UPTON or Pagan more then they are worth. We s still have trade possibilities for Span, Willingham,Bourgious, Fowler. These teams will trade because they cann’t win without pitching.
November 19th, 20129:21 pm
IF Ugly Dan finishes out his asinine contract in Atl, he will not prove anything other than Frank Wren made a bad deal…
November 19th, 20129:22 pm
Ben Revere, finally, a suggestion/trade that makes sense
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