Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,505 comments Add your comment
Lew
November 24th, 2012
9:43 am
Disgusted – No argument from me about Wren. I think he’s one of the best and little deserving of some of the crap thrown around here on a regular basis.
And I’m an amateur, too – though I’ve know professionals in the business for most of my life. But stupid trade scenarios are still stupid trade scenarios – whether or not they indicate the games’ popularity.
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
9:43 am
BJ had a 298 OBP last season, makes you wonder how the guy was able to use his gifted speed and stolen base ability enough to steal 31 bases.
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
9:44 am
Hell if we really are gonna sign a expensive Free agent who will cost a draft pick, go for Nick Swisher. He’ll likely be cheaper than BJ Upton for sure. But of course he isn’t a CFer. But the man is clearly a much better hitter than BJ. Switch Hitter with 20+ Homer power who produces 360+ OBP’s every year while playing 150 games a season. Dude can play LF, RF, 1st base, and even CF on occasion. I rather see them spend on him than on BJ Upton and his 316 OBP and 169 Strikeouts…
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
9:46 am
I think Frank Wren is a great GM as well, does the best he can with what he has to work with. My biggest beef is the confusion about Pastornicky last spring and now this “Premium Player” comment could easily be a big laugh. Guess it really depends on what he considers premium.
Lew
November 24th, 2012
9:47 am
I’ve wanted Swisher in LF for severtal years. He’s a good hitter, good on base guy, has power, is consistent and a swith hitter. What’s not to like as a player. Yeah, he’ll cost a bit – as if none of the others won’t – and he’ll cost a draft choice. But no matter what deal gets worked out, we’re goin to lose someone.
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
9:48 am
Wren just should have said we’ll be looking for RH power and a Leadoff man. BJ Upton is RH power, but he’s not premium.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
November 24th, 2012
9:49 am
jim Right now there are a lot of strikeouts already in the lineup/bench — Heyward, Freeman, Uggla, Francisco, Mejia, Schafer and last year from McCann.
BMac only struck out 76 times last year—down from 89 times in 2011. Most he’s ever struck out is 98 times (2010).
Lew
November 24th, 2012
9:50 am
If they DO sign BJ, we’d best get used to concentraing on the 60+ XBH and 30 something steals he’ll bring to the lineup.
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
9:52 am
If was between these 2 deals what who would you pick.
28 year old BJ Upton 5 years 75 million plus a draft pick
or
31 year old Nick Swisher 4 years 50 million plus a draft pick
Now I know that both of them could possibly get more but from everything I’ve read this seems to be around the expected price.
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
9:56 am
I wouldn’t mind BJ for around 10 million a season but that isn’t the case. Cause he does have value, 30 doubles, 30 homers, and 30 steals are very possible, but I just can’t get over the 316 OBP over the past 4 years and his 298 OBP in 2012…
gp3
November 24th, 2012
9:57 am
There sure are alot of CF’s available who aren’t named Bourne or Upton…SURPRISE US BRAVES!!!
Lew
November 24th, 2012
9:59 am
Swisher – in a heartbeat. More consistency. Higher ON Base. Switch hitter. Less $ per year. More suitable for the middle of the batting order – And one way or another they will have to either overpay in dollars or years no matter who they target – as will everyone who deals for a Free Agent or signs a player this year..
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
10:08 am
Denard Span,28, Leadoff man, Speed and Great Defense. Team Friendly Contract Free Agent in 2015 but has Option, Some injury Concerns, but a Ideal Fit.
Dexter Fowler, 26, Speed and Defense guy who has completely mashed in Coors so questions about production playing elsewhere, right now the price is high for trade. ARB 2 for 2013, Free Agent in 2016
Peter Bourjos, 25, Speed and Defense guy who isn’t much with the bat, still considered a top tier defender. Could be productive with more playing time, but not a sure thing. Pre-ARB Free Agent in 2017
Craig Gentry, 28, Solid hitter with little track record, Played 122 games last season but that’s it. Could be risky. Pre-ARB, Free Agent in 2017
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
10:13 am
ESPN’s Sweetspot BlockBuster Idea’s. Here’s one involving Span and Willy.
Cincinnati Reds trade CF Billy Hamilton, C Devin Mesoraco, RHP Mike Leake, RHP Sam LeCure and RHP Daniel Corcino to the Minnesota Twins for CF Denard Span, LF Josh Willingham, IF Jamey Carroll and IF Daniel Santana.
The Reds are in win-now mode, and as exciting a prospect as Hamilton is, what is he? A shortstop in the minors, he’s being moved to center field. He has some hitting and on-base skills, but no power, and his adjustment to major league pitching may take a couple of years. As is, he needs a year in Triple-A.
Span gives the Reds the immediate help they need in center field and the top of the order, while fitting nicely into the Reds’ budget. Instead of re-signing Ryan Ludwick, a good bet to regress from his 2012 numbers, Willingham is brought in and Carroll gives the team a better spare infielder than the Miguel Cairo/Wilson Valdez disaster of 2012.
As the Twins rebuild, depth is a priority. They have several good-looking hitting prospects on the way up, but little in the way of pitching. Leake and LeCure are solid back-of the-rotation arms — which means they’re front-of-the-rotation arms for the Twins. Corcino is a decent pitching prospect who could be ready sometime in 2013. Mesoraco’s status lost some luster in 2012, and the Reds are better off sticking with Ryan Hanigan behind the plate, so he becomes Joe Mauer insurance in Minnesota.
jmart1951
November 24th, 2012
10:14 am
Was just reading where the Royals are listening to offers for Wil Meyers (LF, 3B and 1st B). I would trade for Myers (6 years under control) – Royals need pitching. I would then try and trade for Span but if do not have enough pitching left to accomplish the deal would go with whatever is in the organization. Cunningham had a terrific AFL. Let him compete for center in the Spring. If not ready then, maybe by the All Star break. If trading for Wil Meyers then still have enough money to go after a remaining centerfielder – a low cost one year / 2 year guy leaving room for Cunningham. The possibilities are endless. I like getting younger and more controllable players for the next 4 to 5 years. The Braves are going to have to really come off the hip to extend the number of really good players already on the team.
Braveone
November 24th, 2012
10:18 am
From the previous blog which had 4,355 comments, TheOnlyBravesFan led the way with 408 posts. There were 285 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:
Rank Poster Frequency
1 TheOnlyBravesFan 408
2 Efrim 297
3 nolie 257
4 ncscoots 183
5 Lew 164
6 Murph 130
7 Disgusted 124
8 TennesseePaul 115
9 old man 98
10 Shaun 87
11 Bobby H 85
12 Jeff R 83
13 P-Town Brave © 78
14 Ward 77
15 richbrave 73
16 brian 67
17 Venice Jim 60
18 David O’Brien 59
19 RC 58
20 VaBravesFan 58
21 DS1 53
22 Couch Tater 51
23 BravePack(FreeFan) 48
24 CB 47
25 ncbravesfan90 42
jfp
November 24th, 2012
10:33 am
Lew,
Had to reread your comments about Swisher, thought your were being funny and called him a “swish” hitter. Like him a lot but I would think the only way we could land him is if we get Spann in a trade. Personally, I would like to see us get Willingham in a trade and Pagan from free agency. Then you have another swish hitter with a little better batting average and a lead-off hitter as well. Willingham covers the power RH bat and that would be a great fit and affordable. This would allow us to take care of other pitching needs.
jfp
November 24th, 2012
10:34 am
As well sign Reed Johnson.
Mike McDermont
November 24th, 2012
10:40 am
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:….why do you think that McCann “only” struck out 76 times in 2012? Because his 439 at-bats in 2012…were his fewest since 2005, his rookie season.
In 439 at-bats, McCann hit .230, OBP of .300, OPS of .699.
Buster Posey had 599 plate appearances in 2012 (Brian McCann’s career best was 566 in 2008). Posey had 103 RBIs in 2012 (McCann’s best was 94 in 2009). Posey played in 148 games in 2012 (McCann’s best was 143 in 2010).
I believe that McCann, if healthy, has better power than Posey. However, “if healthy” is the operative phrase here. Posey started 114 games as catcher in 2012 (which ironically, is exactly how many games McFatty started in 2012). However, the big difference is that Posey was about to start 29 games at 1st…..keeping his vital bat in the Giants line-up (while McFatty is simply unable to play another position on the field).
McFatty will be the starting catcher/DH for either the Yankees or Red Sox in 2013. He’ll have a much more productive career in his 30’s for either of them..then he would for the Braves..because of the health issue (meaning he wont have to play 130 games behind the plate in the AL…like he would if the Braves re-signed him after the 2012 season).
Lew
November 24th, 2012
10:44 am
jfp – Nah, I’m just not a good typist and really don’t bother too much with editing on any writing that isn’t being submitted for pay.
Venice Jim
November 24th, 2012
10:49 am
Nice to see Lentz carrying the same stupid name calling over from Facebook…
jfp
November 24th, 2012
10:50 am
Lew, you didn’t make the mistake. I read it wrong. My mind was going one way and my eyes another.
Joey G
November 24th, 2012
10:52 am
Lew
I agree that trading three pitchers in one deal is way out there. The scenario I posted is all contingent on signing Kyle Lohse. In the end it would be dealing 2 pitchers and signing a FA pitcher rather than an OF. I just think MN has 3 guys we could use at an affordable amount of $$ but a lot in prospets. All this “surplus pitching” we’ve been reading about the past few years needs to be used in one way or another to get us to a WS.
Joey G
November 24th, 2012
10:52 am
Lew
I agree that trading three pitchers in one deal is way out there. The scenario I posted is all contingent on signing Kyle Lohse. In the end it would be dealing 2 pitchers and signing a FA pitcher rather than an OF. I just think MN has 3 guys we could use at an affordable amount of $$ but a lot in prospets. All this “surplus pitching” we’ve been reading about the past few years needs to be used in one way or another to get us to a WS.
Ken Stallings
November 24th, 2012
10:57 am
Wren’s not going to overpay for a trade or a free agent. If your rivals are willing to do that, then it becomes addition by subtraction for your own team.
$25 million will buy quality free agents, and the Braves have the best group of talented pitchers who can remain under affordable contract for several years. That is precisely the kind of talent a small market team like the Twins need.
Have we seen a single free agent yet signed for the asking price of his agent? Nope, and we won’t either. Agents are like used car salesmen, only less principled! For every case where post-signing performance was not deemed good value, there are other examples where a free agent had his agent wait too long, press too hard, played too many angles, and the free agent had those teams on his list go in other directions and the musical chairs game worked against him.
And of all the noteable agents out there, Scott Boras is the one who has most often seen his clients the ones who overplayed their hands and wound up without a chair! The best agents find out where his clients want most to play. He then astutely determines what those teams can afford, and the negotiations are tailored to quickly reach those matching points.
The advantage that Wren has above all of us is that he’s talked with these agents and knows these angles. We don’t. The agents and the players have the advantage over us by knowing better than we do where they want to play. It will play out.
$25 million is enough to reach these matchups. If the match was never there, then double that wouldn’t be enough.
Lew
November 24th, 2012
10:57 am
And yet – even though injured for most of the season and having his worst MLB year – McCann was still 4th in HR, 4th in BB, 6th in runs scored, 5th in RBI and only one with less K than Mac out of all NL catchers (and for the uninformed that would be out of 16). And this was despiute having fewer plate appearances.
And let’s not forget that Buster played only 112 games and had 417 of his 530 AB as a catcher. He played 32 games at first or as a DH, thereby saving him wear and tear and likely contributing to his high numbers, whereas Mac played 114 of his 121 games at catcher and had all but 12 AB as a catcher.
Lew
November 24th, 2012
10:59 am
Joey G – Yeah, but they aren’t going to sign Lohse or add another starting pitcher after trading all of who they already have.
Mike McDermont
November 24th, 2012
11:07 am
Lew….you made my point precisely in your 10:57am post. Because Posey has the ability to play another position (like 29 games at 1st), which allows the Giants to keep his bat in the line-up..whereas McFatty is relegated to pinch hitting duties.
Protecting your investment from wear and tear (especially when playing a position like catcher) is very important. Hitters like McCann and Posey who also catch dont come along very often in baseball. However, injuries are going take their toil more on McFatty..because of his inability to play another position on days he need off from catching…as well as his “pudgy appearance”.
If the Braves played in the AL, this conversation would be moot…because of the DH. I’d be all for paying McFatty a Molina type contract. But the Braves dont play in the AL..making this conversation relevant.
Lew
November 24th, 2012
11:11 am
Does anyone else get the feeling that Dentz is back yet again?
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
11:12 am
Angel Pagan would make some sense for us since he won’t cost a draft choice and is farther down on the CF boards but it looks like he could get 10 million a season which is bonkers so nevermind. He’s a borderline Leadoff man, who does nothing great except run the bases, he’s a average defender as well.
Mike McDermont
November 24th, 2012
11:14 am
Angel Pagan is a decent lead-off man. He has a strong arm for a center fielder….and can run down some long outs. AT&T Park is a very spacious park.
He helped set the table for the Giants offense in 2012. Plus, he’s a triples machine. I’d have no problem with the Braves paying him $10 mil a year over 4 years.
JasonInFL
November 24th, 2012
11:14 am
Myers is a prospect. Period. Another team will not have to throw more in to get Myers if they are looking for a front-line starter. It will be the other way around.
Mike McDermont
November 24th, 2012
11:22 am
For all the talk that Frank Wren gets for being a “great GM”, lets take a look at some of his moves:
1. Signing Derek Lowe to a 4 year, $60 mil contract. Simply put, a disaster.
2. Kenshin Kawakami to a 3 year, $24 mil contract. Another disaster.
3. Trading for Nate McLousy. Sure, we didnt give up what turned out to be a whole lot. However, at the time, Hernandez and Morton were highly touted prospects. We could have flipped those two bums in a better trade.
4. Re-signing Hinske the past two years..as well as Matt Diaz last year. Sticking with Greg Norton in 2008.
5. Trading for Dan Uggla and extending him to a 5 year, $65 mil contract.
6. Extending Chipper Jones to a 3 year, $42 mil contract. Yeah, he had the feel good retirement tour in 2012 and turned out to have a decent 2012 season. However, the fact remains that he didnt even come close to living up to the $42 mil, 3 year contract.
That’s over $200 mil in contracts to players that hella underperformed.
George_George
November 24th, 2012
11:24 am
Lew
November 24th, 2012
9:43 am
Disgusted – No argument from me about Wren. I think he’s one of the best and little deserving of some of the crap thrown around here on a regular basis.
And I’m an amateur, too – though I’ve know professionals in the business for most of my life. But stupid trade scenarios are still stupid trade scenarios – whether or not they indicate the games’ popularity
************
Good morning all
I tend to AGREE with the above. WREN has done a very good job considering what money he has had to work with. I was disappointed he let D ROSS get away, he should have signed ROSS for two years during the season before ROSS had a idea how much someone was willing to pay him.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 24th, 2012
11:30 am
Okay, I get it now…McDermont, pro poker player.
Lew
November 24th, 2012
11:35 am
Y’all – I really liked David Ross, too – thought he was agreat backup catcher, obverall good Dude and a great clubhouse presence. However…….He’s 36 (and most freak about Mac approaching 30) and has not played more than 62 games in a season since 2007 and right off the bat (no pun intended), he would have had to catch about half that number subbing for Mac by early May.
I could well see why FW didn’t think at Ross’s age and lack of playing time for the past five years, that he just was not up to playing over 100 games in 2013 at twice what he’s been making the past four years.
Lew
November 24th, 2012
11:38 am
Hugo – It’s to the point where it’s taking one or two posts before we figure him out. Also, apparently Lentz is on the Friends of DOB page – just had an email from something he posted (from an undoubtady fake page), basically stating what he just said on here.
George_George
November 24th, 2012
11:41 am
Venice Jim
November 24th, 2012
12:35 am
Very sad to see Boss cancelled…
*******************************
AGREED. BOSS was well written, well produced, and proved what a truly fine actor KELSEY GRAMMER is. It would be good if a another network would pick show up.
kenhotlanta
November 24th, 2012
11:41 am
Mike McDermont: How’s San Fran this time of year? Ever go to Chinatown?
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
11:41 am
I like Swisher — guess if I had a choice between BJ or Swisher as the big prize I might lean toward Swisher.
Then they really have to trade for a decent CF option. Span, Fowler are the two biggest ones we talk about with Bourjos (I think he fits in the Angels plans) then there is talk about Gentry from Texas.
Or, can an abrupt turnaround happen and Jordan Schafer becomes the player they hoped he would be in 2009? Long shot ———– real long shot but not impossible. He is only 26. He is going to have to accept that he should not swing for power — and focus on his speed, work on his routes to the ball in his D, and work at being an OBP guy. Then we actually will have something there.
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
11:43 am
Could the Braves swing a Hanson for Gentry trade????? Maybe expand it a bit here and there.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 24th, 2012
11:44 am
I guess he’ll be the Cincinatti Kid next.
Mike McDermont
November 24th, 2012
11:44 am
kenhotlanta, actually I’m in Frisco, Colorado (near Vail) visiting my brother for a few weeks. So far, no snow (other than the fake snow that the resorts have been pumping on the slopes.
jim
November 24th, 2012
11:45 am
jmart,
I have been suggesting that the Braves try to go aftger Myers also. I suggested the following trade that both sides would have to consider:
Minor, Delgado, and Gattis to KC for Myers and Cain (plus possible other throwin-ins on either side at the Pastorniicky Spruill type prospect level)
The Braves get two cheap young players to complete their outfield for multiple years under control. The Royals get a guy who profiles best as an AL DH capable of 25+ HRs to make up for the loss of power from Myers and two potential top of the rotation pitchers (I really like Delgado and hate losing him as much or more than Minor). The Braves still have most of their money left to go after a free agent pitcher and more importantly to lock up Prado, Heyward, Freeman and Medlen past their arbitration years.
The deal sets the Braves up better for 2014 and beyond better than for 2013, but Heyward, Myers, Freeman, and Simmons provide the basis for a great young core. 2013 has the following problems that make 2014 the year they are better suited to make a run at the WS. Beachy won’t be back and fully returned to form before 2014 given the history of TJ surgery recoveries. Medlen has not pitched as many as 130 innings in his career and now is the staff ace that requires about 200 innings. Will McCann recovery quickly from his surgery, and which Mac will show up in 2013? Whither Uggla?
Barring further deals/signings the 2013 rotation becomes: Medlen, Hudson, Maholm, Hanson, and Teheran with Beachy replacing Hanson full-time in 2014. (If we could substitute Hanson for Minor or Delgado that would be great but I doubt Drayton Moore would even consider that offer.)
DOB among others has panned this suggestion, but I think it could set the Braves up for the next 5 years.
Mike McDermont
November 24th, 2012
11:45 am
Boss with Kelsey Grammer was a great show. Dude played a hella brutal Mayor of Chicago. Too bad Starzz saw the need to cancel it. The skinny blonde with glasses on the show was hella sexy!
George_George
November 24th, 2012
11:46 am
Getting closer to DAWGS KICK OFF.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 24th, 2012
11:46 am
It takes a hard heart to claim that someone “underperformed” with about a .817 OPS over the course of the contract…
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
11:46 am
Pagan is a 280/335/425 type hitter, with Average D in CF (Better suited for Corner), 7-12 HR power, 25-30 SB guy. Solid Ballplayer But…
Just in 2011 he produced 262/322/372 and was non-tendered. Only has been a everyday player for 3 seasons. Kinda hard for me to see a team commit 4 years 40+ million to him… But I’m sure it will happen…
Cody Ross has a longer track record with ability in all 3 outfield spots, He provides more Power than Pagan, and completely mashes LHP, and has played 120 or more games 6 times in his career. Coming off a good season as well and looks to be going for 3 years 25 million, which is also high in my opinion… But nevermind Jonny Gomes got 2 years 10 million and he sucks on defense altogether and cannot play CF.. So Ross is easily more valuable…. Guess just gonna have to start shelling out 10+ million a year to Omar Infante type players within 5 years most likely.
Lew
November 24th, 2012
11:47 am
ken – Chinatown – One of Thin Lizzy’s best albums with Snowy White (British Blues guitarist and also guitarist for the Wall Tour) replacing Brian Robertson. They just re-released it.
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
11:49 am
I could well see why FW didn’t think at Ross’s age and lack of playing time for the past five years, that he just was not up to playing over 100 games in 2013 at twice what he’s been making the past four years.
@Lew — That logic does make sense about D. Ross, but for what he signed Laird for, (about half of what Ross got) is the saving of 1.5 or 1.6 mil going to be that cost effective in terms of accepting the drop off in quality in the BU catcher position given how important BU catcher is going to be the first third of the season.
How much is 1.5 mil per yr going to get you for even a bench player in this market.
Guess we can find out.
Had we gotten Laird for say, 750 a yr for 2 yrs, the cost savings would have made more sense — that would be a 2.5 mil saving over 2 yrs.
The 2 yrs at 1.5 or 1.6 mil for a guy like Laird was alot for what he brings to the table I think. We will see. He used to be good atthrowing runners out but is not as good as he was in 08, 09.
Not sure what we are really getting from Gerald Laird.
If therre are real positives from Laird, let me know — I might be more open minded to that sign.
George_George
November 24th, 2012
11:50 am
Mike McDermont
November 24th, 2012
11:45 am
Boss with Kelsey Grammer was a great show. Dude played a hella brutal Mayor of Chicago. Too bad Starzz saw the need to cancel it. The skinny blonde with glasses on the show was hella sexy!
************************************************
Canciling of BOSS another reason to dislike LIBERTY MEDIA.
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
11:54 am
BEWARE —- for all you Will Myers chasers.
Every yr there is some hot shot prospect out there that does not amount to what he is supposed to be.
Remember Tim Wheeler last winter?????? What happened to him in AAA this past yr — he was devoid of his power and his status is down now.
Could Myers be this winter’s Tim Wheeler. We really have zero idea what he is right now.
He could be Jason Heyward or he could be Brad Kommisk or Clint Hurdle. Remember how Clint Hurdle was supposed to be all this ande that — mediocre playing career.
Lew
November 24th, 2012
11:54 am
Disgusted – It’s worthwhile especially if Wren thought that Ross playing that many games for the first time since he was in his very early thirties would result in the drop off anyway. And it definitely could have.
Kind of hard at age 36 to all of a sudden play twice as many games as you have in five full years. And let’s also not forgt he had hamstring issues late last year, too and had mac been healthy, would likely have not played at all.
George_George
November 24th, 2012
11:56 am
Outta here to watch game. GO GET IT GEORGIA. Have a good one y’all
Lew
November 24th, 2012
11:57 am
Well, time to go watch them Dawgs win another one on their road to the National Championship. Later y’all. Don’t let yourselves be Dentzed.
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
11:58 am
But what does Laird really bring to the table – I would have preferred Shoppach myself.
FW might be right — Laird might be an assett but from what I see he cannot hit and his defense is in decline.
He was a shut down defensive catcher 3 or 4 yrs ago. If he can play shut down defense again in his role, then all along Mr, Wren will be right.
kenhotlanta
November 24th, 2012
11:58 am
Lew, I remember that album, and it was really good. I’ve been listening to a lot of old Savoy Brown lately…Kim Simmonds, the founder and leader, is on Facebook and Twitter every day updating his followers on the band’s doings. They constantly tour, usually in their own bus.
He is very meticulous in everything he does and apparently he kept a detailed dairy of every show and album recording sessions because he is always sharing these amazing details and facts from over
40 years ago.
“Savoy Brown” is the facebook page and it’s great.
Russell Bell
November 24th, 2012
12:00 pm
I don’t doubt for a second that Mike McDermont is P.L., spouting the same variety of misguided crap.
On the bright side, it gives me a reason to read the blog. Conversation has been stale on here as of late.
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
12:01 pm
Go get em Dawgs — You are great now don;t play like BUMBS.
Then you will not deserve to be Booed.
You can do it now focus and get it done.
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
12:02 pm
Not sure why Cody Ross or Angel Pagan or even BJ Upton are mentioned for the Braves, there not premium players lol… I can’t let it go…
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 24th, 2012
12:04 pm
Like an old dog with his bone, I see it’s tough to let go of the David Ross argument. At any rate, he started 47 games last year, and would likely have started 50 to 80 this year, so I doubt the increased workload would’ve killed him.
VaBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
12:06 pm
Well Ross was able to double his salary which is huge, I’m sure the Braves were prepared to offer atleast 2.6 million for 1 year which would still be a 1 mil raise.
jim
November 24th, 2012
12:12 pm
Myers is a prospect, but he is the BEST position prospect ready to graduate to the majors this year. He has produced in AAA this year and was named Baseball America’s Minor League Player of the Year. He may not be Mike Trout or Bryce Harper (how many are?) but he is worth the risk if available. We didn’t expect Uggla to become our Uggla when we got him — trading for/signing an older player can bring as many risks as well. An established player won’t likely be better than he has been before and more likely not as good. A top prospect might not live up to his billing but has the potential to be much better — BJ Upton for one has not lived up to his hype and has been a disappointment in that sense, but has done well enough without becoming the projected star to warrant interest from the Braves and others at $15 million/year.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 24th, 2012
12:13 pm
Well Mike, he actually appeared in 68% of games played in those three years, so you’re not entirely accurate.
And what would you have done at the end of 2009? Let him walk? Try to sign him for less? If so, how much less do you think you could’ve gotten him for?
chipl1960
November 24th, 2012
12:14 pm
hey Dentz. check out Lairds % of thrown out runners. Know what you are talking about before you speak. It will make you appear to be smart.
Otto
November 24th, 2012
12:29 pm
Wren is an avg GM not one of the best.
To be fair being one of the best GMs would have to mean better post season performances and players tripping over themselves to either join his team or complimenting his approach. He is not a bad GM but he is not one of the best either. Like his team he is very avg/in the middle of the pack.
He struggles to build teams with chemistry (you see that when the team folds collectively in pressure spots) and he tends to react each off season based on whatever piece he believed he was missing in the previous year. In other words there still is no design center for this club.
Are they a power team, small ball, speed, defensive whiz, etc? They tried speed for a year+ and now will let it walk in all likelihood. They tried power with Uggla and it didnt work out. They spent a ton of money on pitching a few years back and it didn’t work out.
Eventually the stuff has to start working out or you are just making excuses for ending up in the same place.
Wren is an opportunistic GM which is driven not only by his budget but also by his approach.
I think he gets a pass bc his budget seems tight but really 90-95mm with the kind of pitching talent he has had in the minors (trade pieces) he could have shaped this team into something specific.
So again he is not a lousy GM but he really needs to step back and make a statement on what this team is versus annual hole filling. He needs a design center. If you don’t have one then all you will do is knee jerk your way through the offseason chasing last years hole.
It may sound logical with plan A, B and C (fall back guy list) but it rarely build a stronger team (more likely just a bit different and in some cases creating new weaknesses).
Bubba Beans
November 24th, 2012
12:29 pm
Minor and pitching prospect for Wil Myers.
David O'Brien
November 24th, 2012
12:36 pm
DOB, food review. went to the Optimist tonight on the westside.
AJC’s John Kessler loves the place. we thought it felt like a food mill. — uga-brave
Gotta say, you’re first person I’ve heard say anything but great stuff about the Optimist. Haven’t been yet, but was just talking to ol’ Warren, who owns Decatur CD. He’s anything but a trendoid or food snob when it comes to this kind of thing, and he said it was terrific. Said he ate at the bar before going to see a band down the street at Terminal West.
Guess I need to go myself to see what all the fuss is about.
By the way, did you know Esquire magazine named it the restaurant of the year? Not in Atlanta — in the entire U.S.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 24th, 2012
12:37 pm
Mike, the most charitable thing I can say is that you’re being unrealistic if you think you could’ve given Chipper a pay cut after the years he had in 08 and 09. Somebody else would’ve paid more, and you would’ve let him walk.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
November 24th, 2012
12:39 pm
McFatty will be the starting catcher/DH for either the Yankees or Red Sox in 2013.
This guy’s name gets tossed around every now and then on this Blog…still have yet to find him on any team’s roster. He doesn’t even have a baseball-reference.com page…
David O'Brien
November 24th, 2012
12:43 pm
holy cow LOL — VaBravesfan
That’s a neat little device DOB installed to increase his blog hits during the slow season, isn’t it.That’s a neat little device DOB installed to increase his blog hits during the slow season, isn’t it. — Bobby H
Thank you. I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I’ll take credit if it was crafty and effective.
Yes, it was a device I thought about and tinkered with for quite a while before putting into place….
Otto
November 24th, 2012
12:47 pm
Wrens Positive Moves
Ross (getting and keeping him – see challenging moves as well)
JJ for Renteria
Wagner
Vaz (getting him and flipping him before he face planted)
Bourn (getting him and being smart enough not to pay him 15-17mm a year for 5 years)
Maholm (though I think we will regret trading Viz bc he had nasty stuff)
OFlare
Hinske (initial signing, keeping him around this past year not so much)
Bad Moves
Lowe
KK
McClouth
Uggla
Kotchman for Tex (he waited too long to move Tex and he demanded a ML ready 1B versus all propects)
Handling of Frenchie situation (mismanaged the whole thing and then sold low)
Ross (letting him walk with an injured Mac)
Fredi – he really owed it to the franchise to do an extended & exhaustive manager search versus getting Bobby 2.0 over a 4 hr BBQ
Keeping JJ and Hanson when he knew they would be hard to resign. Riding value to near zero on one and down to 30% on the other.
Neutral Moves (really didnt change anything in the end)
Glaus
Farnsworth
Ankiel
Blanco
Melky (letting him walk, he was a toss in with Viz)
Former Yankee reliever (forget name) signed for 1mm while on DL – never played in ATL (or much)
Juan Francisco (so far)
Most of the bench players to date apart from Ross & Hinske
I am sure I am missing some…. The stinkers really hurt – options & free cash. The winners kept the team in the hunt but couldn’t close the deal.
Bloc Monitor
November 24th, 2012
12:48 pm
Dentz, how sweet was it watching them cowboys get their over rated / under performing butts handed to them again?
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
November 24th, 2012
12:49 pm
Losing David Ross and replacing him with Laird is already one step in the wrong direction. Which makes resigning Reed Johnson a priority. Our bench was a problem early on last season, Wren can’t make the same mistake in 2013.
While I agree that B.J. Upton is the best athlete available, his price tag will probably be within range of the Braves budget. Which is why they should in this one instance……overpay because their organization no longer has the attraction to baseball players that it did in the nineties. Our Braves are not dominant and Bobby Cox is gone.
Billy Hamilton remains my hope and dream to play CF for my Bravos. After all, a fan can dream can’t he? What I know for sure……Dusty Baker and the Reds are a power oriented baseball team playing in a band box. Hamilton’s game won’t fit in Cincinnati, but it will in Atlanta.
Barring a miracle, Jair Jurrjens is gone and I’m one of the few sorry to see his impending exit. Injury has short circuited what could still be a great career.
What to say concerning Dan Uggla? Well I do believe he will rebound offensively in 2013 but the man continues to play out of position. He’s better suited in LF as any team thinking DIVISION WINNER should be putting PITCHING and D-E-F-E-N-S-E as priority ONE and TWO.
Enough said……..still waiting for Frank Wren to get it right.
David O'Brien
November 24th, 2012
12:50 pm
kenhotlanta, actually I’m in Frisco, Colorado (near Vail) visiting my brother for a few weeks. — McDermont
Frisco is a lot closer to Copper Mountain, Breckenridge, Keystone and A-Basin than it is to Vail. (My sister and her family live outside Boulder and have owned a condo in Frisco for 20 years.) But I guess Vail sounds more exclusive, so we’ll let you go with Vail.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 24th, 2012
12:51 pm
You can find “McFatty” in the special “players whose salaries drive bloggers insane with rage so that they resort to using stupid and insulting nicknames” sections of BR…
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
November 24th, 2012
12:57 pm
Hugo—
Or maybe the “players who have 1.5 bad year due to some real injuries but some bloggers decide that means they’re fat and worthless so they resort to using stupid and insulting nicknames” section…
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
November 24th, 2012
12:57 pm
Bloc Monitor
November 24th, 2012
12:48 pm
Dentz, how sweet was it watching them cowboys get their over rated / under performing butts handed to them again?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Agreed. Watching Tony Romo masquerading as a starting QB is hilarious.
Bat Masterson
November 24th, 2012
12:58 pm
hella, hella, hella ……
Go Dawgs!!!
Bat Masterson
November 24th, 2012
1:02 pm
Now that Paul has been deleted my, hella, hella, comment will make no sense.
Oh well
Bat Masterson
November 24th, 2012
1:04 pm
Oh, wait. They are still there.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 24th, 2012
1:05 pm
The hits just keep on comin’ for David Freese…
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8668181/david-freese-st-louis-cardinals-crashes-tree-avoiding-deer
Bat Masterson
November 24th, 2012
1:10 pm
I could well see why FW didn’t think at Ross’s age and lack of playing time for the past five years, that he just was not up to playing over 100 games in 2013 at twice what he’s been making the past four years.
It’s probably gonna suck if the Braves backup catcher catches 100 games next year.
Jeff R
November 24th, 2012
1:15 pm
For Otto, the past is prologue…
Jeff R
November 24th, 2012
1:17 pm
Losing David Ross and replacing him with Laird is already one step in the wrong direction.
‘That’s one small step in the wrong direction; one giant leap toward the cellar.”
Did I get that right, Coach (2012 Fredi’s Beisbol Fandango)? Huh?
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 24th, 2012
1:28 pm
The only thing I kinda wish BMac had done was not play through all the injuries this year… we all saw how “bad” coming back and playing through injury had him doing at the end of 2011, and from the end of July on this season, he wasn’t very good. May have been better for him to shut it down, and have all the time needed to be ready for OD 2013. Now, he’s gonna have to rehab to try to be ready by May, and what if the offense struggles to start the season? I bet he and the Braves will feel pressured for him to come back sooner. That wouldn’t be good at all.
Told y’all Tech sukks…. get ready for a Nat’l Title that includes the Dawgs! (cuz they look pretty good against Bama to me)
And my ‘Noles get this excuse of an ACC champion next. Sounds great!
braveslifer
November 24th, 2012
2:03 pm
In Mac’s seven full season has made a six All-Star apperances and been a five-time Silver Slugger Award winner. He has produced 28.7 WAR for the Braves while earning only $27-30M over his career. That is about $1M per WAR. He has been a great team player, fun to watch, and a huge bargain. Lets stop with the name calling and appreciate him like we should.
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
2:08 pm
I would put Lowe as one of the neutrual moves — he was not that bad in 09 and 10 and the guy made his stars, got his IP and won games.
31-22 counts for something for those 2 yrs. Yes he overpaid but its not like he got nothing out of Lowe.
Mc Louth was done for all the right rasons and it did not work due to injury. Its not like he gave up anything for Mc Louth.
KK was his worst move — hope he will not go after another Japannese League pitcher they ususlly stink.
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
2:09 pm
I still think Uggla was a good move.
Otto
November 24th, 2012
2:10 pm
The past is what makes anyone who they are right now. The future determines if they will be the same person or rise to a new level.
Add in JS moves in the 2000s and its been a very long prologue with the same net results. The prologue is looking longer than the story.
Disgusted
November 24th, 2012
2:10 pm
That is correct braveslifer — one hundred percent right.
Donny in Suwanee
November 24th, 2012
2:43 pm
Go for Hamilton! He is a game changer! The Braves will make up the salary in merchandising and season ticket sales. C’mon Frank! Take a chance that will pay off!!
Jack Clompus
November 24th, 2012
2:49 pm
“Thank you. I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I’ll take credit if it was crafty and effective.”
Good answer. I had no idea, as well,and didn’t take much time in trying to figure it out.
Jack Clompus
November 24th, 2012
2:54 pm
All these McFatty offensive stat geeks put on the mule blinders when the subject of what he takes away due to barely mediocre defensive abilities.
DiamondbackMac
November 24th, 2012
2:59 pm
He’s baaaaaaaack.
Zing
November 24th, 2012
3:12 pm
Wonder who we’re missing. Span, Fowler, Swisher, Hamilton, Bourn, Willingham, Pagan, Victorino, BJ Upton, Ross, Bourjos (?), Gentry (?)… wouldn’t be surprised if Wren totally surprises us with something.
braveslifer
November 24th, 2012
3:16 pm
Jack Clompus: WAR takes into account defense. It also takes into account how a player performs on the basepath and position difficulity. It is a stat that looks at what the player brings to the table and assigns a Wins Above Replacement number.
Zing
November 24th, 2012
3:23 pm
By the way, of that list, the only ones that I would really be happy about are Span, Fowler, and Hamilton. Maybe Willingham.
Zing
November 24th, 2012
3:23 pm
I should say “excited about” not happy about. Got to realize the confines in which Wren is working.
Jack Clompus
November 24th, 2012
4:07 pm
“Jack Clompus: WAR takes into account defense.”
Does it take into account declining skills, injury trends, and paying too much for a rapidly depreciating asset?