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2,505 comments Add your comment
Jeff R
November 21st, 2012
9:18 am
And then promptly accepts a trade from Atlanta using Maholm, EOF/JV, Teheran…. with Cabrera coming from the Tribe (or Peralta from the Indians)
I’m out of the loop on this one? Is this a real possibility (per any published reports) or Fantasy League chatter?
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
9:19 am
Span and Bourn had nearly identical seasons last year w/ their batting lines, but Span played fewer games, and scored fewer runs. Some of it, I’m sure, had to do with the Twins offense not being as good as ours is… I’m sure that if we put him at the top of our lineup, he’d look about as good as, if not better than, Bourn offensively. THey both were on track to have about the same number of hits, XBH…
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
9:21 am
The more important question would be, what did he accomplish on those 93 ABs?
Mostly he didn’t play. Last season Span played in 128 games to Michael Bourn’s 155 games. The rate at which the two accumulated plate appearances and at bats and Span’s “missed” playing time, had he played in the extra 27 games he would have accumulated he would have accumulated about 120 PA’s/110 AB’s. So no one knows what would have happened. It is, however, highly unlikely Span would have struck out in 85% of those at bats had he gotten them. He struck out every 8+ at bats against Bourn’s every 4+ at bats. Or, another way of looking at it, Bourn struck out exactly once a game. Span struck out just about exactly once every two games.
Bourn walked slightly more frequently than Span, however… a difference of 2 PA’s.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
9:21 am
We needed to acquire Bourjos… projected .260 hitter, .410 SLG (roughly what BJ has done the last 4 years), and he plays near Bourn-level D in CF. Not happening now though… so sad.
Mixxo
November 21st, 2012
9:22 am
Tron @ 9:12
Thank you.
These idiots are thinking Frank reads their mindless drivel. :facepalm:
Jeff R
November 21st, 2012
9:24 am
Span or Bourn? Affordable versus a budget strain? Controllable for a couple of seasons or committed for five seasons? Offensively roughly equivalent. Defensively, an edge to Bourn but not greatly.
Span, Span, Span! (Now if only Wren and the Twins’ GM go that way.)
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
9:25 am
I’m out of the loop on this one? Is this a real possibility
According to reports, the DBacks are interested in Jhonny Peralta of the Tigers, and Cabrera of the Indians. They’re also “courting” Hiroyuki Nakajima, a SS from Japan.
Jeff R
November 21st, 2012
9:27 am
TennesseePaul, thanks for the 9:21 am analysis.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
9:27 am
Span wouldn’t be a bad addition to this team.
Jeff R
November 21st, 2012
9:29 am
TheOnlyBravesFan, Ah. Thanks.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
9:30 am
Nick Cafardo- 3. Asdrubal Cabrera, SS, Indians — The Red Sox and Diamondbacks are two of the teams interested in Cabrera, who will earn $6.5 million in 2013 and $10 million in 2014. That’s fairly cheap for a starting shortstop, but with Mike Aviles now in tow, the Indians may listen to serious offers for both Cabrera and outfielder Shin-Soo Choo.
DKnobler@DKnobler
Diamondbacks have shown interest in Jhonny Peralta. But Tigers won’t trade him unless/until they get someone better at shortstop.
Stephen Drew is a possibility.
Tumbledown
November 21st, 2012
9:30 am
I too prefer Span over B. J. Upton for CF. I base this on the very sound principles of gut feeling. Although, as mentioend above, the options for a RH left-field masher are very limited in free agency.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
9:31 am
Span has missed some playing time (40%) the last two years though. Don’t know much about him. Was it injuries? What type, if so?
old man
November 21st, 2012
9:34 am
Trop ranks as slightly more of pitcher’s park than the Ted.
Great disparity between scathing criticism of BJ by many and high interest of FW.
Much of the criticism seems hyperbolic, hard to accept as even-handed.
Tumbledown
November 21st, 2012
9:34 am
Tron: Still bloggers talking about nothing. Stop the drivel and wait on winter meetings.
Still, Tron making drivel comments about bloggers talking about nothing. Stop the madness and enjoy Thanksgiving!
Josh Hamilton Rumors: Which Team Has the Inside Track to Signing the Star? | :: Sparxxrx LLC ::
November 21st, 2012
9:36 am
[...] from the Rangers, six teams have been linked to Hamilton so far: the Atlanta Braves, Milwaukee Brewers, Philadelphia Phillies, Baltimore Orioles, Seattle Mariners and Boston Red [...]
Jeff R
November 21st, 2012
9:36 am
Span was banged up a bit in 2012. See the following link:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/denard-span/injuries/529995?q=denard-span
tony austin
November 21st, 2012
9:38 am
Hot Stove: Phillies Considered Favorites for Upton – posted by: Hot Stove: Phillies Considered Favorites for Upton | Local Philadelphia News Aggregator from page 13, link: http://1philly.com/hot-stove-phillies-considered-favorites-for-upton/
That’s the best baseball news I’ve seen all day!
Jeff R
November 21st, 2012
9:39 am
I doubt Wren seriously goes for Hammy; he’s about said as much.
Jeff R
November 21st, 2012
9:40 am
I thought that Philly was going for Upton hard all along. I think they get him. Good luck!
Tumbledown
November 21st, 2012
9:40 am
Good news that the Phillies are the favorite to land Upton. They won’t have to rely on their “fallback” option of Hamilton.
Jeff R
November 21st, 2012
9:42 am
I’m guessing that Wren is fishing on the free agent market until he can get down to some serious dealing at the winter meetings. From reports out of the recent GM’s meeting, he’s talking around with other GMs, laying groundwork.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
9:44 am
thanks for the great news tony!!!
raleighbravefan
November 21st, 2012
9:44 am
Well, the ole blog proves that opinions are like assh….errr…noses, with eveeryone having one.
My personal preference would be trade for Span, and make your best effort at LF/3B. FO appears to favor Prado at 3B, but that may be because of lack of other options at 3B. In a perfect world, Fraancisco would get in great shape, and cut down on the strike outs. Prado in LF, and plenty of resources for mid season trade, or stud pitcher acquisition.
Unfortunately, the ideal solutions are mostly unrealistic…targeted players too expensive, choose to sign elswhere, etc.
ncgary
November 21st, 2012
9:48 am
bonds says he still has it lets just sign bonds garr and nuxie and call it a day, a season and a new city to play in
ncgary
November 21st, 2012
9:49 am
snark snark
raleighbravefan
November 21st, 2012
9:51 am
Wren SEEMS very interested in BJ. Publicly, anyway. Who knows his actual strategy, or how much he would actually be willing to pay? He may be playing the Phillies, with something else in mind. Or he may be trying to determine the market. Again, who knows?
wheelz007
November 21st, 2012
9:52 am
I hope everyone relaxes…. our Braves need 2 good players.
Wren has the money and trade pieces to acquire both.
We’ll be fine and might even be better than 2012.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
9:52 am
TennesseePaul, thanks for the 9:21 am analysis.
Span’s BA vs Bourn’s BA over the number of Span’s ABs would have produced five more baserunners. Span had 10 GDP and 8 ROE, for a net of -12 baserunners (I’m not including Bourn’s GDP and ROE, because we’re focused solely on the 93 extra ABs in which Bourn had a K. But you could include those as a net if you like. For Bourn, that’s a positive total, though.). So, in effect, Span’s extra contact produced a net of fewer baserunners over his 516 ABs.
DAP
November 21st, 2012
9:56 am
efrim promised some action by thanksgiving. only 14 hours to go.
brian
November 21st, 2012
9:57 am
the Braves obviously want Upton. It is not a charade, but the attention given to Upton for CF has to put pressure on the Rockies and Twins to deal if they want some of our young pitching. If we sign Upton I still would not mind either Fowler or Span to join him in the OF and hit leadoff
Arkansas Transplant
November 21st, 2012
9:58 am
Don’t understand the call for us to trade away currency on so many fringe players when you can just sign those types of players without having to use any depth to do so. That’s just crazy.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:02 am
Span had 10 GDP and 8 ROE, for a net of -12 baserunners
I might be looking at that incorrectly. Might should just count the DP as a net loss of 1 instead of two. That would give a return of a plus-three baserunners for Span’s extra contact for an extra 93 balls in play.
I think either result lends credence to the idea that the fewer Ks didn’t significantly alter outcomes.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:03 am
Maholm, O’Flaherty and Teheran in a deal? What fantasy world do some of y’all live in, anyway? They will not trade two pitchers in a deal, much less three with two of them coming from the current MLB staff.
Patrick
November 21st, 2012
10:04 am
Anyone who thinks that Denard Span is a better option and a better player than BJ Upton is a moron.
I’m sorry to be so harsh, but..it’s true
Arkansas Transplant
November 21st, 2012
10:05 am
I don’t see the vast improvement of adding Span instead of someone like Gentry.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:05 am
Didn’t some pundit offer the idea that Jason Kubel might be available from Arizona, if Upton stays there? Surely, the trade price on that guy would be lesser than Upton, no?
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:08 am
Anyone who thinks that Denard Span is a better option and a better player than BJ Upton is a moron.
Can’t look at it that way, because that’s not the only need to be filled. It’s the combination of any two players acquired that has to be measured.
boog
November 21st, 2012
10:08 am
please tell me your kidding… 15 mil per yr. for .246 hitting outfielder???? Great …between him and Uggla we will have almost 30 mil per tied up for guys who who hit a few homeruns but most of the time are walking back to the dugout with their bat in their hand. if you’re going to do that just go ahead and sign hamilton…for another 5 mil or so… Upton is a terrible choice. I would much rather have Pagan… for a lot less.
Don
November 21st, 2012
10:09 am
If the Braves were looking for a hitter who has a terrible Batting Average, a terrible Strike Out total, and a terrible On Base Percentage, they made a mistake in getting Uggla – he has a good On Base Percentage. But they have FOUND THEIR MAN in UPTON – He is TERRIBLE in ALL THREE. Unbelievable
Rick C
November 21st, 2012
10:11 am
I like Kubel but he doesn’t hit LHP. 279/343/498 vs RHP, 238/308/383 vs LHP.
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:11 am
I base this on the very sound principles of gut feeling.
Humans was thought it sound that their gut feelings suggested the earth was the center of the universe and that when someone sneezed they need to be blessed right away so that the evil spirits wouldn’t enter in to their bodies. You sure you want to rely purely on gut feeling?
Arkansas Transplant
November 21st, 2012
10:11 am
ncscoots, if it’s a choice between Fowler or Span.. I’d have to lean Fowler but like you said, there’s still a move yet to be made. We’ve got 2 spots to fill. Although, Fowler would leave you more space on budget to fill that last spot.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:11 am
Geez, I forgot Kubel was a lefty. Scratch that.
Rick C
November 21st, 2012
10:12 am
“most of the time are walking back to the dugout with their bat in their hand”
This is the case with every baseball player. Getting on base 4 out of 10 times is considered very good in this game.
raleighbravefan
November 21st, 2012
10:13 am
boog – As stated here many times, Pagan will likely re-sign with the Giants, and thus, would be unavailable.
The “much rather have” list is, in reality, largely unobtainable.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:14 am
Although, Fowler would leave you more space on budget to fill that last spot.
But it doesn’t appear that particular piece of budget space is needed, unless the FO is going full-tilt on something huge. Not all that much diff in the salaries of Span and Fowler, is there?
Don
November 21st, 2012
10:14 am
“Braves Target Upton”. This is a JOKE, right. A Batting Average below .250, an On Base Average below .300, and a Strike Out Total twice as high as what should be accptable (approaching 200).
As huge a mistake as Uggla is, at least has an acceptable On Base Percentage.
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:15 am
Best to look at a player’s on-base skills and slugging skills in relation to position and things like ballparks. It’s also good to factor in age and skill set. You’re limiting your understanding if you are just purely looking at OBP and SLG, especially OBP and SLG for one season of a player.
raleighbravefan
November 21st, 2012
10:16 am
Don – Wow. You have been commenting during the past 2 days, without 1 word about the pitching coach, manager, or the health of the pitching staff. What gives? You are obviously and impostor.
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:18 am
We should be suspicious of anyone evaluating a player by overlooking the big picture. In other words, be suspicious when folks are cherry-picking instead of looking at the player on the whole. They may be trying to hide something that the big picture tells us. They may have their own subjective view of the player and they may be looking for anything that backs up that view instead of letting the evidence and reason lead them to an assessment.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:20 am
in relation to position
I think the Braves, for this particular offseason, should be less concerned about positional positives and more concerned about gross positives. They don’t need someone who has power relative to their position, they need someone with a base level of thump, regardless of position. Positional scarcity might come into play on the contract, admittedly.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:20 am
Yes, we are trying to hide something by saying a player has a very low OBP and doesn’t slug at a level we’re comfortable with. Cause it’s all nothing but a big conspiracy theory to not know the truth (at least as you see it).
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:22 am
Also be suspicious of anyone who blatantly avoids the relationship between what a player does and run creation (on the offensive side) and run prevention (on the defense/pitching side). If one doesn’t grasp how the things a player does relates to run creation and run prevention, their analysis and views of a player are bogus and worthless. Anyone can look at things a player does and be impressed by them. But baseball isn’t a beauty contest. Players need to do things that relate to creating and scoring runs, not merely things that look and seem athletically impressive.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
10:24 am
There isn’t any cherrypicking going on when I see this Shaun: .242/.316/.420/.736. Even if he’s trading some doubles for HR (and a ton of Ks), I don’t like that AT ALL. Not for a 15mil player (and a draft pick) who’s supposed to offer protection to Freeman and Heyward. Can’t do much of that when he’s hitting 7th (or 8th!). Guess Simba and pitcher need the protection…
Tumbledown
November 21st, 2012
10:24 am
Patrick: Anyone who thinks that Denard Span is a better option and a better player than BJ Upton is a moron.
I’m sorry to be so harsh, but..it’s true
Hey, I resemble that remark . . . sometimes! Let me add, however, that “better option” is a different concept than “better player.” Anyway, ncscoots said it best at 10:08
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:25 am
Yes – Be suspicious – very, very suspicious. And don’t talk to strangers – especially if they are mebers of the BBWA.
Tumbledown
November 21st, 2012
10:29 am
Believe me, after spending time here, I am much more suspicious of the person spewing incomplete stats than I am of the group of individuals wearing masks and heading my way waving guns and knives.
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:30 am
ncscoots, gross positives are certainly important but positional positives, as you call them, can alleviate some of the burden of trying to make sure the gross positive is enough. For example, if the Braves get a leftfielder that is solid, all they really need to do is get a solid centerfielder and they are pretty set. Considering they have a catcher who hits like a firstbaseman (when healthy) and are well set at all other posiitons, they don’t need some MVP type centerfielder or leftfielder/thirdbaseman.
Lew, a very low OBP and doesn’t slug at a level we’re comfortable with compared to whom? And what kind of sample are we talking? Are we talking low OBP and SLG relative to all starters, even firstbasement and DH, or are we talking relative to players at his position? And are we talking OBP and SLG from last season or are we actually talking on-base skills and slugging skills that the player will likely possess next season and in subsequent seasons? All important questions that are overlooked when we oversimplify player assessment. It’s often best to at least attempt to do what’s hard rather than take the easy way out. You are going to understand more if you take a nuanced approach to player evaluation rather than a very simplistic approach.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
10:31 am
So, in effect, Span’s extra contact produced a net of fewer baserunners over his 516 ABs.
Could have looked strictly at on base percentage and found that, at their 2012 rates, Bourn produced slightly more base runners than Span. It is slight though. based off of the famed and always flexible wOBA Span was slightly ahead of Bourn. And OPS+ put Span slightly ahead of Bourn. However, a knock offers the opportunity to drive a runner in from second, where as a walk does not. And in that regard Span, extrapolated to even AB, would have offered about 6 more knocks than Bourn.
The major difference comes in contract value and Age. Span is younger and cheaper than Bourn… significantly cheaper for what amounts to a debatable level of drop off. He isn’t, in other words, a leap backwards compared to Bourn based on last years results. He wouldn’t be a bad fit. But, the team would have to work even harder to find a right handed masher for left field/third base if Span is the acquisition in CF. Span’s offensive contributions compared to Bourn may balance out or slightly favor one over the other. However, the loss of Chipper’s production still looms and Span gets this team no closer to covering that hole.
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:34 am
There isn’t any cherrypicking going on when I see this Shaun: .242/.316/.420/.736. Even if he’s trading some doubles for HR (and a ton of Ks), I don’t like that AT ALL. Not for a 15mil player (and a draft pick) who’s supposed to offer protection to Freeman and Heyward. Can’t do much of that when he’s hitting 7th (or 8th!). Guess Simba and pitcher need the protection…
There simply isn’t enough information here to know whether the player to which you refer is someone to “like at all.”
You’ve left out position, age, skill set, ballparks in which he’s played, all sorts of relevant information that we would want to take in to account when assessing a player. If only assessing players were as simple as the above paragraph.
Tumbledown
November 21st, 2012
10:34 am
Shaun – You are going to understand more if you take a nuanced approach to player evaluation rather than a very simplistic approach.
But a simplistic approach is so much more fun and a lot less time consuming.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 21st, 2012
10:35 am
A lot can change when Upton finally decides on what team he wants to play for. Like I’ve been saying the more time that passes, the more likely it is Upton doesn’t choose the Braves. I fthat is the case then we could see Wren go all in on Hamilton despite what many fans on here seem to think or the so called experts believe. We have no idea what Wren is doing behind closed doors. The fact remains the Braves need 2 players and I’m 99% sure that one will come through FA and one through trade, especially since Wren doesn’t want to trade away too much pitching. Another fact we know is Wren wants to add a premium player the likes of either Upton, Hamilton. I believe one combination of a premium player through FA or trade and one second tier player through either trade or FA.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:38 am
Yep – Don’t talk to strangers until you;ve compared them.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
10:38 am
We should be suspicious of anyone evaluating a player by overlooking the big picture
We should be suspicious of anyone unable to follow the topic of conversation and the resulting responses. If a conversation is strictly about strikeout rates then an interjection of physical beauty or defensive prowess is essentially a non-sequitur.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:39 am
However, a knock offers the opportunity to drive a runner in from second, where as a walk does not.
Yes, but that wasn’t the discussion. Jeff is down on Ks and posited that Span’s fewer Ks vs Bourn would be a net positive effect. I was trying to show that “outs is outs”, for the most part, regardless of type.
Thus, I was trying to find out if Span’s extra contact over the same number of ABs (discounting walks, adding in the extra bases accrued through ROE and subtracting the ones lost from GIDP) made any difference. Nothing more.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:40 am
I’m still mystified that we were able to tell that Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were great players and Bob Gibson a great pitcher when we were kids without WAR and xFIP.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:43 am
Considering they have a catcher who hits like a firstbaseman (when healthy) and are well set at all other posiitons, they don’t need some MVP type centerfielder or leftfielder/thirdbaseman.
I fear you have misunderstood the goal of this offseason for the Braves. Though I guess that depends on your definition of “solid”.
Bud
November 21st, 2012
10:44 am
Forget Upton, LETS GET STANTON!
jbill
November 21st, 2012
10:44 am
On a sport show a while ago they suggested Braves sign both Shane Victorino in CF and Swisher for LF…would give Fredi more flexability to move his line up around and more speed and power.
Whats your thoughts..before you smart off at me..I didn’t say I agree…
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
10:44 am
age, skill set, ballparks in which he’s played
Age: 28, his prime years. Should have been improving up til now. Hasn’t done so.
Skill Set: A hacker at the plate, .240 hitter (.315 OBP, .420 SLG), 25+ HR power, 30+ steals, avg. defender, a .600 OPSer for about 5months of season
Ballpark: The same one that Longoria is able to hit in. And the Ted isn’t a hitter’s park by any means
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
10:45 am
Yes, but that wasn’t the discussion. Jeff is down on Ks and posited that Span’s fewer Ks vs Bourn would be a net positive effect. I was trying to show that “outs is outs”, for the most part, regardless of type.
True, it wasn’t directly about a K. I took the conversation as suggesting fewer K’s meant more other events…outs, hits, walks, etc… those 93 extra at bats, in Span’s case had he achieved them, were not going to result in 93 more K’s… He will still make outs about 72% of those at bats, but that is technically a bit better than Bourn’s 73% out rate when swinging the bat.
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:45 am
TennesseePaul, anyone who makes discussion and comments about individuals involved in the discussion and in posting those comments instead of the topics and ideas expressed is resorting to ad hominem attacks and their comments should be past over and not taken seriously. They aren’t adding to anything and we aren’t learning anything from them. You want to raise the level of discourse by addressing ideas and topics, you are worthy of attention. If you resort to ad hominem attacks instead of addressing ideas and topics, you aren’t worthy of attention and you should simply be ignored because you have nothing useful to offer.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
10:46 am
A .750 OPSer is “solid”….
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:46 am
they suggested Braves sign both Shane Victorino in CF and Swisher for LF
I suppose there could be worse combinations, but I’d hate to have to think of them. Such things do not bear contemplation.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
10:46 am
hose 93 extra at bats, in Span’s case had he achieved them, were not going to result in 93 more K’s … or 93 more outs of any type. He just didn’t make outs at that rate when swinging the bat.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:48 am
I truly wonder how much longer before we start requiring a complete genetic mapping of each potentital MLB player and the experts start rejecting trade scenarios based on “Any damned fool should be able to tell that player A’s nucleotides are far superior to player B’s”?
tony austin
November 21st, 2012
10:49 am
Remember the error by Jose Lind in 1992? If Justice would have struck out in that situation, the error doesn’t happen and the Braves probably don’t win that game.
raleighbravefan
November 21st, 2012
10:50 am
Lew @10:40 –
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:50 am
I truly wonder how much longer before we start requiring a complete genetic mapping of each potentital MLB player and the experts start rejecting trade scenarios based on “Any damned fool should be able to tell that player A’s nucleotides are far superior to player B’s”?
Traditionalists will say, “Hey, sorting the WAR column is good enough for me, when it comes to selecting an MVP.”
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:51 am
Lew, WAR and xFIP are ways of processing what players do. A player doesn’t need to know about WAR and xFIP, or batting average and RBI for that matter, to be great. All a player needs to understand are the essential rules of the game, like that three outs means change of side and that gaining bases until a player reaches home plate leads to scoring. The irony is a lot of the newer stats get at the essentials of the game better than some of the stats that we paid close attention to as kids.
TheOnlyBravesFan, you ignored position. In your “ballpark” section, you compared a player to one of the best players in the game. If that’s your standard, not many players will meet your expectations.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
10:51 am
Lew, it’ll be about the length of the telomeres. Especially when considering long term contracts.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:53 am
Thank you Professor Shaun. I always knew I needed that post graduate training cause after 50 + years I haven’t figured baseball out yet
Ray
November 21st, 2012
10:53 am
@scoots. Outs are not just outs. Moving a runner over are positive outs. Outs are like money. You got 27 of them. Its all about how many you waste or spend wisely..like moving a runner over.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:54 am
And make that 50+ years of personally knowing a MLB player, coach, scout, Head of Scouting, Asst. GM or a GM.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 21st, 2012
10:54 am
So because Upton plays CF, he gets a pass for being such a poor hitter? Oh, and let’s pay 15mil for his defense then… oh wait, he doesn’t play good defense. And stolen bases don’t lead directly to runs, so ummm, what’s the draw again? All I did was show that Tropicana isn’t such a dark hole for hitters. Longoria can put up a .290 avg. and slug over .500. Upton can’t even touch .250 and .460.
jbill
November 21st, 2012
10:55 am
ncscoots thanks for your reply…about half the bs I read on here is not worth contemplation..wouldn’t you agree?
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:55 am
I truly wonder how much longer before we start requiring a complete genetic mapping of each potentital MLB player and the experts start rejecting trade scenarios based on “Any damned fool should be able to tell that player A’s nucleotides are far superior to player B’s”?
If reliable information is available and we know how to process it, we should use it.
Traditionalists will say, “Hey, sorting the WAR column is good enough for me, when it comes to selecting an MVP.”
Many “traditionalists” essentially do this already, in their own way, it seems. Sorting Triple Crown stats and what a player did in September among players on playoff teams is good enough for them. It’s the “non-traditionalists” who are looking at a much bigger picture and paying attention to much more information.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
10:55 am
Careful Ray. To a callous observer your statement will be misconstrued into suggesting hitters should aim to make an out.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
10:57 am
Many “traditionalists” essentially do this already, in their own way, it seems. Sorting Triple Crown stats and what a player did in September among players on playoff teams is good enough for them.
It is at this point it should be noted that this is a sorting and filtering on five columns.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:58 am
TenPaul – I don’t doubt it in the least. But no mitochondrial DNA evaluation? Got to make sure they don’t throw like a girl somewhere in their distant past.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 21st, 2012
10:58 am
People have said Victorino’s bat speed has slowed down as he gets older so I don’t want him on the Braves, at all. That is why I hope more than anything Wren is going after players in their 20’s unless it’s a player like Hamilton who is still mashing when healthy.
TennesseePaul
November 21st, 2012
10:58 am
Think Lance Berkman is this off-season’s Carlos Beltran?
Lew
November 21st, 2012
10:59 am
Yes, Victorino is now 31. He can barely lift that bat anymore.
Shaun
November 21st, 2012
10:59 am
Outs are not just outs. Moving a runner over are positive outs. Outs are like money. You got 27 of them. Its all about how many you waste or spend wisely..like moving a runner over.
This is true to some extent. But simply avoiding outs is vastly more important than whether outs are used to move runners, etc. Two players are equal in all other areas, you want the guy who makes outs that can move runners along. Otherwise you want the better hitter, regardless of how he makes outs.
Thank you Professor Shaun. I always knew I needed that post graduate training cause after 50 + years I haven’t figured baseball out yet
Lew, anyone who makes discussion and comments about individuals involved in the discussion and in posting those comments instead of the topics and ideas expressed is resorting to ad hominem attacks and their comments should be past over and not taken seriously. They aren’t adding to anything and we aren’t learning anything from them. You want to raise the level of discourse by addressing ideas and topics, you are worthy of attention. If you resort to ad hominem attacks instead of addressing ideas and topics, you aren’t worthy of attention and you should simply be ignored because you have nothing useful to offer.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
10:59 am
Outs are not just outs. Moving a runner over are positive outs.
I know people think this, and I don’t have a problem with the view. I don’t plan to go on an “outs-is-outs” jihad.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
11:00 am
I shouild have know that Shaun woud be on board for the launching of the “MLB Genome Project”.
Lew
November 21st, 2012
11:01 am
Shaun can’t see the forest for the pine needles
DAP
November 21st, 2012
11:01 am
i think last year was an anomaly for upton when it comes to OBP, and thus, OPS. i wouldnt expect him to OPS .750 again, if he is slugging in the mid .400s. he had like 30 fewer walks than his average, last year. so, i would expect him to OBP better, and slug similarly, but i still dont see him as an ideal fit, based on what the braves need. i wouldnt think he fits as a middle of the order righthanded bat. he probably needs to hit 7th. if they sign him, i suppose the braves could bat him 5th or maybe even cleanup and see what happens.
ncscoots
November 21st, 2012
11:01 am
about half the bs I read on here is not worth contemplation..wouldn’t you agree?
A little low on your estimate, but, yes.