3:21 pm November 19, 2012, by Carroll Rogers
November 20th, 20122:26 pm
If you genuinely believe the Texeira trade wasn’t all that bad, then the Braves need to sign Upton immediately because you now have no credibility whatsoever.
November 20th, 20122:29 pm
Yes, AT, they are gambles, but usually it’s after seeing what the player has done for the past few years. In this case, we’re gambling on the hopes that a guy gets better than what he currently is, which isn’t a player worth 15million.
I hear ya, Ward, but BJ Upton shouldn’t be a plan A. Or B. Or C, D, or E.
RC, I’d be alright with something like Ahmed and Delgado plus possibly another piece for Olt and Gentry. I think you’d get good value in a move like this.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 20122:30 pm
What happens if the team leaves the tv deal
Fowler, is taggd the the Braves in trade talk, and Braves are the first team in line. How about B.J. Upton, and Fowler, ahd Heyward out field. I’m open to that, as well?
November 20th, 20122:31 pm
TOBF – Your alright! We just have different views, which is cool.
November 20th, 20122:33 pm
In all, Braves should sue TBS, Fox Sports, and ESPN , for not keeping up with thier word.
I asked DOB that exact question on twitter days ago and he never answered so I bet he has no idea if the Braves made an offer yet? Who knows, I would guess if they went to all the trouble to bring him in and have said he is their #1 then an offer would be made already, especially since the Braves aren’t the only ones in on him.
I’d love that trade. I just get the feeling than Jon Daniels would be looking for a lot more in return for Olt, and based on the way each prospect has been talked about in the media, he’d be likely to get a lot more.
The reason they wanted Simmons was to flip him for Upton. I don’t know that the Rangers are all that interested in acquiring Ahmed and Delgado, especially since Ahmed would be incredibly blocked in Texas (behind both Andrus and Profar).
Seems more likely they will simply use Olt as a 1b/DH, getting another good bat in the lineup on the cheap.
November 20th, 20122:34 pm
Braves, could be interested in Fowler, and talking trades now?
November 20th, 20122:35 pm
Ward, what did those broadcasters do to not “keep their word” that would be worth the Braves suing them? I’m not sure I fully understand this comment…
November 20th, 20122:36 pm
Efrim, the fact that Prado is truly a thirdbaseman helps his value immensely, considering the state of thirdbase these days.
November 20th, 20122:37 pm
Rangers looking for a stud pitcher, maybe even Greinke. How about Medlen, Minor, or Beachy (not likely) for Olt. I’m only half-kidding
I actually knew that and forgot about the TV deal. Time Warner signed the deal, seemingly in part to get a sweeter deal on the broader MLB deal it signed (Sundays on TBS/Play-offs). Win-win for TW, lose-lose for Braves and its fans.
We suffered under the incompetence of Time Warner. LM has been a steady, boring force.
November 20th, 20122:38 pm
If Prado is worth 17mil, what’s Mac worth? 25? And what about Heyward? Oh boy…
November 20th, 20122:40 pm
Damn man I liked some of your earlier ideas when you 1st started coming on here but I do have to say when you have an idea or thought you just pound it into the ground for days. 1st it was your non-stop love for Grienke and Bourjos, both of which I like as players BTW, and now you hate for Upton on this team. I think I remember someone asking your age and you said 17…is that correct?
You seem like a girl who is in love for the 1st time and will stop at nothing to keep it that way.
November 20th, 20122:41 pm
You idjits come up with anything substantial yet?
I didn’t think so. BRB.
November 20th, 20122:46 pm
Upton isn’t a terrible fit for this team considering the RH power he brings but I think the biggest fault people are having with it is the commitment and money it will take to land him. And really the guy has yet, at least in my opinion, to show hes worthy of a 15 million dollar commitment.
Mixxo – How’s Taco Bell lately? little humor……
Upton just tweeted something about looking forward to the FSU game weekend so I guess he won’t be making a decision anytime soon. Let me tweet him and ask if he’s gonna make up his f’n mind anytime soon as he’s leaving us hanging around like a little worm on a big f’n hook.
Pass on Upton! Please..
November 20th, 20122:47 pm
the fact that Prado is truly a thirdbaseman helps his value immensely, considering the state of thirdbase these days
Still don’t believe he would get a four year, $68 million dollar contract out on the open market or is worth that much.
A few months ago MLBTR brought up Prado as an extension candidate. They suggested four years $40-45MM.
November 20th, 20122:48 pm
Fangraphs method of converting wins to free agent dollars basically just tells us the market rate for wins on the free agent market; nothing more, nothing less.
Obviously you have to factor in more than that because it’s a snapshot of the past values of players. So a team should obviously factor in what a player is likely to do going forward. Past performance obviously helps with this but so do things like age, skill set, body type, position, etc. Also a huge factor is whether a team can get similar value from a player’s position for much less than a player may be worth, in terms of free agent dollars. That’s obviously easier with certain positions and certain types of players than with others.
November 20th, 20122:49 pm
well we can tslk about it all we want but i was the first one to tell everyone halladay was due for down season, and i aint the first on this but i do hope with many others that the fillys saddle up bj upton and pay him dearly for many years to come and yes halladay aint got it this year either, surgery by mid season
Raburn was released by Detroit, he might be a good candidate for an invite to ST. Could bring some added bench depth on the cheap.
November 20th, 20122:51 pm
Rayburn does have speed still, and I agree for bench help.
November 20th, 20122:53 pm
All of you sure do talk a lot its trash. Fact one frank wren has done a great job considering ownership is a bunch of tight wads now that he has done money and wants our line up to be well rounded you all think he doesn’t know what he is doing. Second I would like josh hamilton as much as the next guy its not going to happen the braves have never I repeat never given a contact for more than 100 mil third uggla while frustrating at times is still a great player how many second baseman hit 19 homers or drove in as many runs as he did? even though his batting average want good his on base was. Finally the best combination for out fielders is victorino cf and cody ross in left fills our lead off and right hand power void. So there talk trash about that!
November 20th, 20122:56 pm
Efrim, good point. Prado isn’t exactly going to be a young free agent. Not old either but he’s not likely to get any better than what he is right now.
November 20th, 20122:57 pm
I agree with you about Prado, just think he’s worth a little more. Maybe closer to 12 per year. He is one of our best players, if not the best. Don’t think he is a secret to anyone now. He would probably bring more on the free agent market, but I believe the Braves will lock him up before that and they need to.
November 20th, 20122:59 pm
pastornicky and spruill makes a nice package
November 20th, 20123:07 pm
I think that is an incredibly fair statement. I personally don’t mind the “boring force”, since I feel like the decision makers have very good processes that drive what they do, and they continued to put out a good product in spite of the payroll restrictions placed on them. But that’s probably somewhat my personality…I value stability over “making a splash” in the FA/trade market. In recent history it seems that the teams that make the biggest “splash” tend to be the ones that have things blow up in their face more often (Marlins and Red Sox come immediately to mind).
November 20th, 20123:10 pm
According to sources, Baves are expecting to lose Bourn……
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 20123:13 pm
No sh*t Ward?!
Could you tell me something I didn’t already know early August?
November 20th, 20123:15 pm
Well, this is the latest Info, and think we all can say now that Bourn isn’t coming back.
November 20th, 20123:16 pm
Ward, thanks for the update. I thought their pursuit of Upton was a diversion. So that everyone else would pursue Upton and Bourn would be left for us alone to sign.
November 20th, 20123:18 pm
Like I said, I think something in the four year $38 million dollar range for Prado makes sense. $7.5 million in 2013 – last year of arb. $10.5 million per year 2014-2016
If the Nationals resign Laroche and sign a CF (Bourn, Upton, etc.) This would make Michael Morse expendable. Would the Braves have interest or the fact that he plays for a division rival wipe that out?
November 20th, 20123:21 pm
P’cola Brave, yeah I’ve mentioned Morse here as a possibility a couple times. I kind of doubt though that the Nats would want to trade him within the division, and the same with the Braves and their prospects. Although, the Nats have an open spot in their rotation so maybe they would be interested in Delgado? Morse has a good contract but only one year left on it.
November 20th, 20123:28 pm
@shaun, thanks for the response. based on what your response I do agree with you. I was just wondering on the basis of your thought process in regards to Upton.
November 20th, 20123:32 pm
Liberty Mutual is not the problem, people.
Braves may have a $100 million payroll this year.
Stop using “tightwad ownership” as an excuse.
In regards to LM being a boring force. Thank you. I prefer ownership to let the baseball people do their job. Braves were awful when Turner was making a lot of the baseball decisions. As soon as he and Steinbrenner turned those decisions to the baseball people, the teams respectfully turned around. Same way with Baltimore here in the last couple of years. Do you really want a Loria as an owner? That’s what I thought.
November 20th, 20123:34 pm
Liberty Media is not the problem either! (Hate it when I start on margaritas too early in the day.)
November 20th, 20123:44 pm
“… Finally the best combination for out fielders is victorino cf and cody ross in left fills our lead off and right hand power void…” – Joe
and, Thank You !!!
November 20th, 20123:48 pm
Hate it when I start on margaritas too early in the day
I do not find “too early” and “margaritas” in the same sentence all that often.
November 20th, 20123:51 pm
I tweeted Upton about an hour ago about when he would be announcing that he’ll be playing in Atlanta and still no response so it doesn’t look like we’ll get an answer anytime soon folks…sorry. I know many will be disappointed. I’ll keep y’all updated and as soon as I hear back from him you guys will be the 1st to know.
November 20th, 20123:52 pm
You will look back at all your blogging and wished you had done something worthwhile..
I think if Wren trades for Fowlers, and signs B.J. Upton. That would be the end of Cody Ross talk, but I’m still in favor of Cody Ross, unless Wren, plans on something else?
November 20th, 20123:53 pm
November 20th, 2012
“… Finally the best combination for out fielders is victorino cf and cody ross in left fills our lead off and right hand power void…” – Joe
So much wrong with this statement. The fact that Mixxo agrees just confirms it as well.
November 20th, 20123:55 pm
Like I said before, “I won’t be disappoineted if B.J. doesn’t sign. He is my frist choice along with Cody Ross, but I’m open to other possiblities, as well. Lots of good out fielders out there.”
November 20th, 20123:56 pm
I’m retired, from an entire bleepin’ life of worthwhile. Allow me a few moments of drivel in my waning years, willya?
November 20th, 20123:59 pm
Speaking of drivel, “SEC domination” gets put to the test this weekend, wouldn’t you say? I mean, except for the Georgia-Georgia Tech game. Even the Dawgs ought to be able to handle that one.
November 20th, 20124:00 pm
Waning years Scoots?
We don’t need to grab the shovel and the duct tape do we?
November 20th, 20124:02 pm
No. I could still kick your butt from here to January.
November 20th, 20124:05 pm
November 20th, 20124:08 pm
You probably could about now…..ribs are finally healed though from my diving headlong in a game…..BUT I haven’t lifted a weight or done any cardio in 3 months
Butt kicking? Did I hop on at the right time?
November 20th, 20124:10 pm
You must really be at the top of your game when it comes to video game skills then.
November 20th, 20124:11 pm
scoots “SEC domination” gets put to the test this weekend, wouldn’t you say? I mean, except for the Georgia-Georgia Tech game
what matchups are you referring to? USC clemson? FSU Florida? i dont think those two matchups will be all that telling either way. clemson is pretty good and USC is without their best player. FSU and Florida are evenly matched. (i always root for the noles, by the way)
November 20th, 20124:15 pm
Remember a few years ago when the 2 ACC divisional champions (Clemson and GT) got beat by 2nd-tier SEC teams (USC and UGA) the week before the championship game?
I wish…..house work and getting engaged and all of the lists I am given and then adding my work schedule, HS football, College Basketball to that….
Its amazing I had devoted as much time to ball as I did….
Not sure whats its going to be like going forward because I was playing 3 nights a week and then tournaments every couple weekends….but the lady has liked having me around since I got hurt….
That said, I could still probably take you in WWE 13
November 20th, 20124:17 pm
If FW is going to spend $75 mil for Upton, why not trade 3 pitchers (Delgado/Teheran, Hanson and Spuill) and Cunningham to MN for Span and Willingham. Then spend the money to sign Kyle Loshe?
November 20th, 20124:20 pm
i dont think those two matchups will be all that telling either way
Nor I, frankly. Just messin’ with the folks who think football is only played in the SEC.
Man, the Royals had some real tough luck with near all of their pitching prospects: Mike Montgomery, Chris Dwyer underperformed – Danny Duffy and John Lamb underwent TJ surgery..
They still have a ton of depth: Jake Odorizzi, Kyle Zimmer, Yordano Ventura, J.C. Sulbaran, Sam Selman, Jason Adam.
Crazy amounts of pitching.
November 20th, 20124:24 pm
Remember a few years ago
Absolutely. It’s been made clear to Dabo that the faithful are getting a little antsy about losses to the Gamecocks.
November 20th, 20124:27 pm
Because, you don’t trade Cunningham, who could end up a Brave in a few years. You let him develope. Can’t trade all your prospects.
It’s been made clear to Dabo that the faithful are getting a little antsy about losses to the Gamecocks
Hope he wears his A-sweatshirt on Saturday
It’s not my money, so i really don’t care if a free agent signing or a trade is considered overpaying.
But what happens when you overpay for somebody is that the contract becomes more important than fielding the best player, or the possibility is there.
Derek Lowe for example proably wasn’t in the “best 5″ group of starters towards the end of the 2011 season (his last in Atlanta). But because he was being paid 15 million smacks, he wasn’t coming out of the rotation. THAT is where overpaying for somebody comes into play.
All I ask is two things.
A) Improve the lineup over last year. 1-8 in the lineup. Some of that will come from moves. Some of it might come from guys already here having better years (Uggla), or guys already here who didn’t start the season in Atlanta and missed time due to injury (Simmons). Clearly, Uggla can’t be any worse. Well I guess he could suck slugging wise and stop taking walks, so I guess it could get worse.
Simmons for 162 games WILL be an upgrade over Pastornicky and Janish for half of the season. No real argument there. And obviously, Heyward and Freeman can continue to grow.
B) Don’t take on a contract that will hinder the future of the club. Would Josh Hamilton improve our offense in 2013? Yup. No real doubt about it. But that would be a disaster. Would BJ Uptom improve the club for 2013? Hard to say. On the surface because he is RH and seems to be a fine player, in the very least it keeps things “the same” or allows for a sideways move of consistency. But at 15 million per year? Not sure about that. That’s 28 million combined for Uggla and Upton and you really don’t know what you can count on in terms of them carrying a club for 162 games. Both very streaky.
I’m back to thinking that while Upton is a “semi-sexy” pickup, because it looks like Wren is making a “big” move……. going after a combo of Pagan, Willingham or Span might be the safer bet. Might cost a couple of prospects. But you can ALWAYS replace prospects. Getting rid of bad contracts or not being able to do so, can cripple a club moving forward.
Add to that, adding Span and Willingham probably gives us as much production as adding BJ and whoever else Frank might try and get.
Now, If Wren wanted to take a HUGE gamble and go after BOTH Upton brothers? That could be interesting. Shawn would never understand this, but there is a side of me that says put the two brothers together on the same team and you might just get the best out of both of them moving forward.
That being said, that’s a LOT of money (and a ton of prospects to get Justin) to gamble on the chance that two brothers might play better together.
But talk about a good, young “in their prime” core of players?
That’s 6 of 8 regulars under the age of 30 either in their prime or about to enter it.
I don’t know what to think and who i WANT Wren to go after. I’m not going to gripe either way. To me there aren’t any obvious choices and like i said…. it’s not my money.
Just so long as the CF/leadoff battle isn’t between Schafer and Constanza and 3B isn’t handed to Francisco…… It will be a start.
November 20th, 20124:29 pm
FSU and Florida are evenly matched.
Evenly matched? LOL “Fear the Spear!” Noles win big over those Gators… it’s gonna be a chopout.
As for the GT-UGA game, GT may as well give up now. They’re that bad. And they get the ‘Noles after that. Poor them. A .500 team playing in the ACC title game, and will be a 6-7 team heading into a bowl game.
November 20th, 20124:30 pm
Mike Montgomery, Chris Dwyer underperformed
Yeah, but both are left-handed and have a pulse, so there’s no giving up on them yet. And the Royals would have to be extremely unlucky, like Pittsburgh unlucky, to have all those guys flame out.
November 20th, 20124:31 pm
N8 – Good post, and I will talk later tonight! All, have a good one! Hope something good comes out of all this……. I’m still within hope! Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
November 20th, 20124:34 pm
Just like they chopped out that juggernaut NC State.
November 20th, 20124:36 pm
Wasn’t quite sure what to think of your post, but we can agree on that last statement….
People can b*tch and moan about everything, but I’d like to hope that ANY option Frank comes up w/ is better than Francisco, Constanza, and/or Schafer…..
Upton or otherwise.
November 20th, 20124:37 pm
Interesting read. Still not sure if Derek Lowe was allowed to keep blowing our play-off spot in 2011 because he was getting paid $15 million, or because he was, well, Derek Lowe.
After-all, Kenshin Kawakami and his $9 million annual salary spent a full season in AAA, right?
November 20th, 20124:38 pm
I don’t know which is more entertaining:
The season, when 98 percent of blog denizens are sure they know more than the manager
Or the off-season, when 98 percent of blog denizens are sure they know more than the GM
November 20th, 20124:41 pm
If we get BJ for $15M, where would that rank him on the highest paid players list on the team?
November 20th, 20124:42 pm
Money + baseball people = great success
Lack of money + baseball people = limited success
Billionaires can spend a ton of money and make stupid baseball decisions.
Billionaires can spend a ton of money and make smart baseball decisions.
Poor folks cannot spend a ton of money, regardless of their decisions.
Give me the rich owners who want to spend.
After-all, Ted Turner did ultimately get out of the way, and the Braves won big. Once corporate ownership took over, the payroll declined, and so did the success.
Some of the same great baseball minds in the front office the last 12 years that were there from 1990 – 2000.
What changed? The dollars. (And the wins, too).
November 20th, 20124:45 pm
Hate to be reminded of that… cost us a chance at a Nat’l Title berth. I’m expecting it to stay within 10 points, but Noles win.
What, so you can’t win unless you have a top-5 or top-10 payroll?
Why would all the other teams even bother to compete?
Wren, Please don’t get Upton!! Either spend a little more and get a proven star in Hamilton or go after Angel Pagan and then trade for a PROVEN outfield star. I don’t care that Hamilton is a lefty.
Signing Upton will be putting all of our marbles in one bag. If he doesn’t produce, then our salary is locked up for several years, leaving no flexibility.
November 20th, 20124:46 pm
TOBF Evenly matched? LOL “Fear the Spear!” Noles win big over those Gators… it’s gonna be a chopout.
florida might be better than you think. i do hope for a “chopout” though.
….the coin toss
November 20th, 20124:47 pm
First…and that’s one of the biggest issues I have with the idea.
November 20th, 20124:49 pm
No to Pagan. Guy is going to make way more money than he is worth based on a decent playoff run and is a terrible clubhouse guy. Stay away Wren…far far away.
Someone has to be first. Better BJ than Derek Lowe.
November 20th, 20124:50 pm
Hillbilly, thanks that is what I thought. If he is going to be the highest paid player on the team shouldn’t he be the best player on the team. Clearly he would not be. Not even close.
He would be the highest paid player… over Uggla at 13mil and BMac at 12. Both players that I’d expect to outperform him.
Luman Harris – Or the off-season, when 98 percent of blog denizens are sure they know more than the GM
Count me as a denizen who knows far far less than the GM. Yet, there is nothing wrong with tossing out my uninformed opinion, right?
Someone has to be first. Better BJ than Derek Lowe.
I agree. Sports salaries aren’t determined by who’s the most valuable.
November 20th, 20124:53 pm
Oh, I know they are. But I’m thinking that FSU is better than *gasp* Georgia, and the Dawgs handled them fine. Oh, how I wish FSU joined the SEC over Mizzou….
Yeah, scoots – I expect some of them to contribute and be fixtures in the rotation soon. They have a good blend of pitchers and hitters in their system.
No to Pagan. Guy is going to make way more money than he is worth based on a decent playoff run and is a terrible clubhouse guy.
While I don’t think Pagan is a great option for the Braves either, can we PLEASE stop using “he’s a bad clubhouse guy” as if any of us have a freakin’ clue about any of these players? All anyone has shown of that is based on one anonymous quote from some Mets player when the team was a trainwreck anyway. Beltran was supposedly a “cancer”….until he signed with the Cardinals and appeared to be a model teammate.
From this point forward, please refrain from pretending you know anything about a player’s character, and simply judge the guy based on his play on the field.
Cept for Yunel. That guy’s a jerk
November 20th, 20124:54 pm
I’m a big MIKE MORSE fan. Would love him in LF. RH bat, average L-fielder
November 20th, 20124:56 pm
Sometimes I wonder about FO moves. For instance, the Royals claimed Chris Volstad off of waivers about three weeks ago. Today they designated him for assignment to clear room for Rule V protection. What upside was there to claiming Volstad off of waivers? What was the point of that?
November 20th, 20124:58 pm
Gary Sheffield was supposed to be an evil clubhouse force, but as far as I know, he turned out to be a good teammate during his time here.
TOBF Oh, I know they are. But I’m thinking that FSU is better than *gasp* Georgia, and the Dawgs handled them fine
they might be, but probably not. better hope you have a linebacker go insane like jarvis jones. dude had as many sacks and tackles in one game as alot of guys have in a good season.
Oh, how I wish FSU joined the SEC over Mizzou…
So they could lose to Vanderbilt instead of NC State?
But seriously…SEC expansion was about markets, not about teams. Missouri and TAMU joined because the SEC didn’t have any markets in Texas and Missouri. No way FSU or Clemson would’ve joined because the SEC already had pull in FLA and SC
November 20th, 20124:59 pm
Dayton finally DFA’d Brayan Pena. Impressive that guy has hung around the majors for 8 seasons.
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