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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,505 comments Add your comment
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:12 pm
It sounds like most people would agree that BJ is an OK player, not great, but OK. The question is $15M for an OK player? Ay?
Too much if you think “OK” is his ceiling, the best he’ll ever be. It’s pretty obvious that there is a school of thought among GMs that this is not the case, and that someone will be willing to pay a premium for the perceived upside.
As noted above, if Upton’s low side is being Martin Prado plus the possibility of being more, the dollars become a little more palatable, I guess.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:12 pm
Some may ask why I am now quoting movies….
Well, I figure the energy there is used just about as efficiently as some of the baseball posts Ive read
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:14 pm
I expected the Rocky Mountains to be a little rockier than this.
I was thinking the same thing. That John Denver’s full of sh*t, man.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:14 pm
Tumbledown, That’s not that high. The best players in the game last season were worth over $30M in terms of wins per dollar that teams paid on the free agent market. In other words, if you had bought the number of wins Mike Trout provided on last season’s free agent market, you would have paid about $45M.
Buying wins on the free agent market isn’t as cheap as many of you seem to think.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
1:14 pm
as much hubub as is being about the braves and upton, i think if he signs elsewhere at this point, its going to make Wren look like he has failed. i say that to say, this has gone beyond being “in” on a big free agent for appearances, or to up the price for competitors.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:15 pm
I have not seen, but am wondering, do you know what nolie’s positon is on BRAVES signing BJ?
Even more against it than am I.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:16 pm
I took a shower washing every body part with actual soap; including all my major crevices; including inbetween my toes and in my belly button, which I never did before but sort of enjoyed. I washed my hair with adult formula shampoo and used cream rinse for that just-washed shine. I can’t seem to find my toothbrush, so I’ll pick one up when I go out today. Other than that, I’m in good shape.
Martin Prado
November 20th, 2012
1:16 pm
If a clown like BJ Upton can command 15 million a season, how much am I worth?
Free agency is not that far away !
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:16 pm
Is Prado a 15mil player? If not (which I’m sure all of us agree is the case), then why is Upton one? Prado outperforms him, is a better hitter for average, and outslugs Upton. If we want our RH masher, how about Prado for the 4-hole? Yeah, right.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:18 pm
You know, Dan Marino should definitely buy this car.
Well, not this one, ’cause I’m gonna f this one up. But he should definitely get one just like it.
Ryan
November 20th, 2012
1:18 pm
Span- .284 .357 .389 .746
Cain- .281 .327 .412 .739
Upton .255 .336 .422 .758
Upton .278 .357 .475 .832
Bourn .272 .339 .365 .704
Fowl .271 .364 .427 .791
Heywa .261 .352 .447 .799
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:18 pm
And I wouldn’t call a nearly .050 point difference in OPS between Prado and Upton (for the last 4 years) “close”
ALJ
November 20th, 2012
1:19 pm
O.M.G. No, he is not a 15 million dollar player. Either sign Pagan or trade for Span.
Jeff R
November 20th, 2012
1:19 pm
So, the commissioner green-lighted the Miami-Toronto deal. Big surprise, huh?
Selig should have shutdown the deal and, consequently, shutdown Loria.
Where’s the integrity these days?
George_George
November 20th, 2012
1:19 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:15 pm
I have not seen, but am wondering, do you know what nolie’s positon is on BRAVES signing BJ?
Even more against it than am I.
*******************************
Thank you
I kinda thought so.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:20 pm
Shaun – Certain stats that value someone as worth X amount of dollars do not equate to how much a player actually makes per year. I don’t see anyone making $30 million plus per year. Your stats seem to be similar to those county real estate appraisals that value houses way above what they could actually sell for in the open market.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:20 pm
50 point difference…
If a clown like BJ Upton can command 15 million a season, how much am I worth?-Martin Prado
If BJ can get 15, with your better average, slugging, OPS, and versatility, I’d give you 20 at minimum… maybe you can get 22-23
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:21 pm
Outslugs is tainted stat. You don’t bring in Upton to hit the gap you bring him in for the slugging % that makes it over the wall. Therefore if he’s slightly under Prado for slugging yet closer to 30 HR….that’s a completely different slugging % in my mind because it’s also a completely different spot in the line-up.
Prado batting 2nd
Upton batting 4th
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:21 pm
Normally, both your *sses would be dead as f-n fried chicken, but you happen to pull this sh*t while I’m in a transitional period so I don’t wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can’t give you this case, it don’t belong to me. Besides, I’ve already been through too much sh*t this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb *ss.
DS1
November 20th, 2012
1:22 pm
Actually, John Denver isn’t full of anything. He is actually spread a little thin over the Rocky Mountains as we speak.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:24 pm
Is Prado a 15mil player?
It’s reasonable for a typical major league team to pay Prado at least $15M a season for at least 3 seasons, when he hits free agency, barring something inexplicable, like a major injury or something, happening between now and then.
Prado and his agent should ask for something in the range of $17M a season for 4 seasons, on the open free agent market. Perhaps he takes less to stay with the Braves.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:26 pm
Upton batting 4th… oh, the hell. A cleanup hitter who hits .242/.316/.420/.736 over Heyward, Freeman, Mac, and Uggla who all will likely outperform him, likely. Nice. Real nice. Upton is a 7 hitter. Maybe 8th if Simba can pick it up.
bvillebaron
November 20th, 2012
1:26 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan:
You would rather overpay with prospects for what exactly? How well did Schueholz’s overpay of propsects for Texeira work out for you?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:28 pm
You’re not your job. You’re not how much money you have in the bank. You’re not the car you drive. You’re not the contents of your wallet. You’re not your f-ing khakis. You’re the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
Who is Keyser Soze? He is supposed to be Turkish. Some say his father was German. Nobody believed he was real. Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever worked directly for him, but to hear Kobayashi tell it, anybody could have worked for Soze. You never knew. That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. And like that, poof. He’s gone.
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
I don’t ‘WANT’ him as our 4th hitter…..just saying that’s where he’d be on this team.
Uggla has a lot to prove, Mac won’t be ready, it’s not Simmons so they’d break up the left handed bats of Heyward/Freeman with Upton. Just the way it is.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
Tumbledown, they aren’t my stats. They are based on what teams paid for a win on the free agent market. Of course no one makes $30M-plus a year (although Pujols comes close) because teams probably shouldn’t and don’t count on $30M worth of wins every year from any one player.
Just because a player is worth $30M in terms of the wins he provided and wins per free agent dollars, it doesn’t mean it’s wise for a team to pay him that much. If a team does that, they are essentially betting on that player having an MVP-caliber season every year.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
If we want HR power and don’t care so much about the doubles, then what about Juan? He’ll put up roughly the same stats as BJ Upton, lots cheaper. Both below average defensively, but Juan isn’t playing as important a position as Upton would be
DAP
November 20th, 2012
1:29 pm
shaun The best players in the game last season were worth over $30M in terms of wins per dollar that teams paid on the free agent market.
this is a stupid way to evaluate the monetary worth of a player.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:32 pm
I understand Shaun. I am more at odds from an emotional standpoint with the stats themselves then your analysis. Intellectually, I grudgingly accept what they represent.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:33 pm
If we want HR power and don’t care so much about the doubles, then what about Juan? He’ll put up roughly the same stats as BJ Upton
Now you’re just being foolish. Ranking Upton and Francisco as comparable does nothing to help your argument against Upton.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:34 pm
Hey look, mister. We serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don’t need any characters around to give the joint “atmosphere”. Is that clear, or do I have to slip you my left for a convincer?
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:34 pm
Well then Shaun, I’d rather pay Prado than Upton. He’s a better player.
You would rather overpay with prospects for what exactly? How well did Schueholz’s overpay of propsects for Texeira work out for you?
That trade wasn’t entirely bad; it was made out of depth. We just didn’t need offense that year, we needed pitching. Made a trade for the wrong commodity. I’d rather overpay with prospects for Span, Olt, Leonys Martin, Fowler, Gordon, Justin Upton. Moves to get any of those players would be better than signing BJ for 15mil
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:34 pm
So now you are saying Juan and Prado is just as as good as a Prado and Upton combo?
yikes….i’m not an Upton fan but COM’ON MAN!
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:35 pm
My wife deserves vengeance. Doesn’t make a difference whether I know about it. Just because there are things I don’t remember doesn’t make my actions meaningless. The world doesn’t just disappear when you close your eyes, does it? Anyway, maybe I’ll take a photograph to remind myself, get another freaky tattoo.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:35 pm
DAP, why is it not appropriate to figure what teams paid per win on the free agent market? Why is that “stupid”?
I do think teams and agents should only use those figures as a guide, but if I’m an agent or a GM, this is essentially the way I’m valuating players when trying to determine what to ask for or what to give.
Ryan
November 20th, 2012
1:37 pm
Sign B.J. for CF and then use the prospects to get Justin in LF. Then you have 80 HR’s, and Good to Great D all the way across. But once we pay Heyward, we’d have about 50 million tied up in 3 spots
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:37 pm
Why, scoots? Both are guys capable of putting up 30HR seasons, 20-25 doubles, .440 or so slugging. About the same slugging range as Prado, they just trade some doubles for HR (and chop off a lot from their avg./obp in the process). Upton is not that good. End of story.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
1:37 pm
Braves Trade: Prado and Minor
To Yankees for: A Rod and Cash
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:38 pm
DAP, how do you decide what things are worth? Say you were in the market for a TV? You’d probably look at the going rate, right, to determine what you are willing to pay. So why is it “stupid” to look at the going rate on the free agent market for wins to determine what might be appropriate for a team to pay a player or for a player to command?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:38 pm
If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour… you’re gonna see some serious sh*t.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:39 pm
Baseball talk, statistical analysis, movie quotes, soap opera-like drama! What more can one ask from a blog?
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
1:40 pm
P-Town Brave have you been living in 1885?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:41 pm
So, you guys like to tell jokes, huh? Gigglin’ and laughin’ like a bunch of young broads sittin’ in a schoolyard. Well, let me tell a joke. Five guys, sittin’ in a bullpen, in San Quentin. All wondering how the f- they got there. What should we have done, what didn’t we do, who’s fault is it, is it my fault, your fault, his fault, all that bullsh*t. Then one of them says, hey. Wait a minute.
When we were planning this caper, all we did was sit around tellin’ f-n’ jokes! Get the message? Boys, I don’t mean to holler at ya. When this caper’s over – and I’m sure it’ll be a successful one – we’ll get down to the Hawaiian Islands, hell, I’ll roll and laugh with all of ya. You’ll find me a different character down there.
Right now, it’s a matter of business.
Fols
November 20th, 2012
1:41 pm
Listen, OnlyBravesFan…i’m just simply saying comparing Prado which is someone we already have in our #2 spot locked in ready to go…….to the FA we are considering doesn’t do a lot of good.
Prado is a contact, doubles hitter, regardless of his slug %, Upton’s bat brings something a little different. There’s a legit shot of adding a 30 HR guy to our line-up which if that’s how he performs, all the better.
However, i’m skeptic of these FA’s. They put on a Braves jersey and their stats drop dead.
Braves Continue Pursuing B.J. Upton - Unofficial Network
November 20th, 2012
1:41 pm
[...] for free agent Michael Bourn. B.J. Upton remains the Braves’ top choice at the position, Carroll Rogers of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported yesterday. Braves GM Frank Wren acknowledged his interest in Upton while stressing the [...]
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:42 pm
Upton is not that good. End of story.
You promise? Have you made enough posts about Upton that we get your drift, you think?
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
1:45 pm
If Prado was a free agent today, he could command $17M a year for 4 years. I bet he would get that from your typical major league team needing a thirdbaseman.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
1:45 pm
shaun why is it not appropriate to figure what teams paid per win on the free agent market? Why is that “stupid”?
you know why. botched free agent signings (there are alot of them) skew this number beyond relevancy, illustrated in part by the fact that juan pierre can play 130 games for the phillies, OPS .721 while playing unspectacular defense in LF, and be worth $7.5mil using this metric. its obviously stupid.
also, a player has 30 different monetary values, different for every team. making a conclusion on what a specific team should pay a player based on this number would be unwise.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:45 pm
Ooooh, I’m very sorry Hans. I didn’t get that message. Maybe you should’ve put it on the bulletin board. I figured since I’ve waxed Tony and Marco and his friend here, I figured you and Karl and Franco might be a little lonely, so I wanted to give you a call.
DS1
November 20th, 2012
1:45 pm
How long do we have to wait to find out who “Up Chuck” signs with? Has he said when he is going to decide?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:47 pm
Well I’m gonna go then. And I don’t need any of this. I don’t need this stuff, and I don’t need you. I don’t need anything except this. And that’s it and that’s the only thing I need, is this. I don’t need this or this. Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that’s all I need. And this remote control . . .
DS1
November 20th, 2012
1:47 pm
Yippee ki yay!
ncgary
November 20th, 2012
1:48 pm
well heres my foolish take on it
id just as soon see the team stand pat as to sign bj upton at 5 yrs 75 million, now if we coiuld get him 3 yrs for 15 million total count me imn
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
1:48 pm
Just sign Hamilton and get it over with.. no need to drag this thing out.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:48 pm
Upton’s bat brings something a little different
Sure does. Suckage. But I guess since I’m not a chick, I’m not awed by the long-ball potential.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 20th, 2012
1:49 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:15 pm
I have not seen, but am wondering, do you know what nolie’s positon is on BRAVES signing BJ?
Even more against it than am I.
That’s not saying much. nolie is old and stubborn and doesn’t like change.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:49 pm
Good evening, London. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone’s death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn’t there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you’ve seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
1:49 pm
Something like 10yrs 252.. I’d say that’s about right.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
1:51 pm
I’ll tell you want Upton doesn’t do….. cost you prospects. That’s a huge advantage with the depth we have to deal from and the limited holes we have to fill.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
id just as soon see the team stand pat as to sign bj upton at 5 yrs 75 million, now if we coiuld get him 3 yrs for 15 million total count me imn
This.
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
I have been stabbed, shot, poisoned, frozen, hung, electrocuted, and burned.
…and every morning I wake up without a scratch on me, not a dent in the fender… I am an immortal.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
id just as soon see the team stand pat as to sign bj upton at 5 yrs 75 million, now if we coiuld get him 3 yrs for 15 million total count me imn
This.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
If Prado was a free agent today, he could command $17M a year for 4 years. I bet he would get that from your typical major league team needing a thirdbaseman.
Oh, man, LOL, if Prado goes to FA and starts looking for that kind of deal? All that existing Prado love here will instantly transform into hate, creating a day on the blog worthy of The Seventh Ring Of Hell.
The blog will flay the guy. Folks might do it with the sad face of a jilted lover, but they’d crucify him all the same.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
1:53 pm
The biggest negative to signing Hamilton would be the years it would take and he’d already be 32 through the first year of that contract. When would the decline come? Could it have already begun?
P-Town Brave ©
November 20th, 2012
1:55 pm
I do not mean to pry, but you don’t by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
1:55 pm
My second and final movie quote contribution:
Frank: It’s the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girl dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year’s Day.
Jane: Goodyear?
Frank: No, the worst.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
1:56 pm
Oh, and figure out something for the draft pick too. Ain’t giving that up for BJ.
Prado for 17M? Seems high to me, but regardless, I’d pay him that if necessary. Definitely before I even consider giving BJ Upton a call…
Carroll
November 20th, 2012
1:57 pm
Is there no scenario in which Upton appears to be the best choice?
Scoots, I agree with many who have said “no.” I agree that even Schaffer is a better option simply bc of the flexibilitty he gives the Braves. If the FA mkt and trade mkt have dried up to the point that BJ is the last best option, then that is fate’s way of telling the Braves that it is just not meant to be right now. A team in the braves position financially cannot afford another Uggla-like signing implosion–it could cripple our franchise for years.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
1:58 pm
id just as soon see the team stand pat as to sign bj upton at 5 yrs 75 million
Standing pat means playing 7 guys.
They’re a couple short right now, remember?
In an offseason where the team has not only cash to spend but also tradeable players, I think the only thing that is certain is that they are not going to “stand pat”.
DAP
November 20th, 2012
1:58 pm
arkansas transplant I’ll tell you want Upton doesn’t do….. cost you prospects. That’s a huge advantage with the depth we have to deal from and the limited holes we have to fill.
this is a great point.
jbill
November 20th, 2012
2:00 pm
@11;41 Jim said “I’d rather see Schafer in CF.”
Thats a joke– Schafer is two time loser busted, plus just did hit 200 for Astros and was riding the pines last half. But he still fits in Braves club house. lol . While some say BJ and Hamilton wouldn’t fit..BS double standard.
“TheonlyBravesfan’s” last 2 sentences @ 1;43..I agree with 110%..get it done.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
2:02 pm
If the FA mkt and trade mkt have dried up to the point that BJ is the last best option, then that is fate’s way of telling the Braves that it is just not meant to be right now.
I’m trying to imagine Frank’s news conference. You know, the one in which he says, “Well, it just wasn’t meant to be. We’ll just have to muddle through with Jordan Schaefer and Juan Francisco, because I’m sure the fan base would rather see this year’s third-place finish with an extra $25MM under the mattress than see us make a bad FA signing.”
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
2:03 pm
I wouldn’t worry too much about the size contract we dish out on a FA signing this offseason.. we’ll have plenty coming off the books over the next few years to sign our current young studs. Hudson isn’t going to play forever, Hanson is probably living on borrowed time, Maholm isn’t here past this coming season, JJ is non-tendered and Uggla won’t be re-upped after current contract and who knows about McCann.
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
2:03 pm
It would be a waste of an offseason if Schafer is the Braves’ starting CF next year. I would rather take a chance on Upton than settle for Schafer.
what you eat for breakfast?
November 20th, 2012
2:06 pm
@p-town: Movie quotes with braves players and managers names used.
“Hasta La Vista…..Freeman”
“Hello! Think McCann, Think!”
“No I am your Diaz, No!!!!!”
Carroll
November 20th, 2012
2:08 pm
overpaying for a FA just to give the appearance that you did “something” isn’t exactly a smart business modle either
jeffrey d
November 20th, 2012
2:08 pm
It would be a waste of an offseason if Schafer is the Braves’ starting CF next year. I would rather take a chance on Upton than settle for Schafer.
The only reason Schafer would be he Braves’ starting CF this year would be if a meteor struck the earth and removed the world of talented baseball players.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
2:09 pm
I’m going to go against the metrics/stats/common sense and say that Prado signs a four year contract for around $38 million later this offseason.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:09 pm
True, AT… I guess we do have 15mil or so to gamble on a .240/.316/.420 hitter. It’s only about 1/6 of the payroll into a mediocre player. Perrrfect.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
2:09 pm
It would be a waste of an offseason if Schafer is the Braves’ starting CF next year.
I believe that would require such a convoluted set of circumstances as to be, literally, beyond imagination.
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
2:10 pm
Shaun, did you get that $17 million dollar number from Fangraphs?
I do not believe Prado would get that sort of a contract out on the open market.
jbill
November 20th, 2012
2:11 pm
I’d take a chance on my Border Collie in CF over Schafer…he can run, catch and smarter than a fifth grader. Oh, he’s cheap but got a $$$ agent.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:11 pm
overpaying for a FA just to give the appearance that you did “something” isn’t exactly a smart business modle either
Exactly.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 20th, 2012
2:13 pm
Shaun, did you get that $17 million dollar number from Fangraphs?
Where else? He’s a slave to his stats…
Efrim
November 20th, 2012
2:14 pm
Prado will be 30 years old on opening day 2014 – his first year in his new contract. .295/.345/.435, 109 OPS+ – corner outfielder/3rd baseman.
Tough call. I really wouldn’t want to give him more than $10-11 million per year.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
2:15 pm
overpaying for a FA just to give the appearance that you did “something” isn’t exactly a smart business modle either
Oh, the FA market is terribly inefficient, goes without saying. But the FO is going to attempt to make the team better, in some way, even if we here disagree with the method and results. They may have to go down their lists several spots deep, for all I know, and may end up with players nowhere close to the FO’s druthers.
Posters here aren’t likely to go along with the choices, in any event.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:16 pm
TOBF – I don’t ave anything against you guys, just the crazies that come on, and put out hate, because they hate some one. I say if you have a chance to get some one like B.J. Upton get him, and if you can’t then go with plan b,c, and d. I like the fact B.J. Upton is 28 years old, and can’t base everything on one season, or two just like you can’t predict,and base Uggs season from the last 2.
Shaun
November 20th, 2012
2:17 pm
DAP, botched free agent signing skew the numbers, sure. You know what else does? Free agent signings that are team-friendly.
Also, those estimates are about the general cost of wins on the free agent market. It’s not designed to make judgements on whether teams overpaid for wins. It simply is designed to reveal the free agent market value for wins. If a team overpaid for wins, in your opinion, that still influenced what the market paid for wins, whether we think it was appropriate or not.
Yes, 30 different teams have 30 different monetary values on wins. This is best used as a generalization and a guideline.
Regarding Juan Pierre, that $7.5M was what teams paid on the free agent market for 1.7 wins above replacement this season. That’s not a statement about whether a team should pay anywhere near $7.5M for Juan Pierre. For one thing, Juan Pierre-type players are a dime a dozen. There are tons of minor league leftfielders who can provide that kind of value at a minimal cost.
Just because Pierre’s performance was worth $7.5M, doesn’t mean anyone should pay that much for that kind of performance.
BJ Upton is a little different. Centerfielders aren’t a dime a dozen, even merely okay centerfielders. Throw in the fact that the Braves don’t have any obvious centerfield candidates coming up through the ranks. So in order to get him, a team is going to have to pay something fairly close to the going rate for wins on the free agent market. You can’t easily get that kind of value from centerfield for less than the going rate.
UKUGA
November 20th, 2012
2:18 pm
Charloes Pierce published an article on Grantland.com today, complaining about sports owners, focusing his attention on Jerry and Jim Buss. Ha!
As a fan of both the Lakers and the Braves, I find it comical that someone (a Celtics fan at that) would direct a column about bad ownership toward one of the most successful ownership families of all-time, while the Braves suffer under the cheapskatedness and incompetence (see: TV deal) of Liberty Media.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8652157/the-lakers-buss-family-missteps
I will gladly take some very correctable bumbling (i.e. wasting money on Tomjanovich and Brown, only to replace them with Phil Jackson and Mike D’Antoni, respectively) from rich owners with more money than sense, over a staid corporate environment in which penny pinching has become the norm.
Less than 15 years ago, John Schuerholz went into one off-season making a statement to the effect that the Braves had never missed out on a free agent they really wanted.
So, so, long ago.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:19 pm
I’ll put Hello everyone! On this post! People get too fact based, and too opinionated on every little detail. Way too picky lately, and if they are not careful, they will not like any player, which I find very sad.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
2:19 pm
I guess we do have 15mil or so to gamble on
I wasn’t aware there was such a thing in baseball… gamble?? Aren’t they all gambles?
DS1
November 20th, 2012
2:19 pm
To Upton or not to Upton, that is the question.
When will Bossman Junior make a decision and spare us of all this banter?
Tumbledown
November 20th, 2012
2:20 pm
I believe that would require such a convoluted set of circumstances as to be, literally, beyond imagination.
Oh no, I imagined it. Since we are in a movie mode, I picture Schafer like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man descending upon Turner Field to destroy all.
DS1
November 20th, 2012
2:21 pm
In case I don’t return in the next couple of days, I hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving Day!
Adios.
Arkansas Transplant
November 20th, 2012
2:21 pm
Efrim, I’ll tell ya what.. make a move with Texas for Olt and then weigh your options when it comes time to extent Prado long term.
Ward
November 20th, 2012
2:21 pm
I don’t base everything from facts, becasue every season is different, and it’s nothing, but numbers, and headaches. Plus, the numbers get mixed up, and conflicted with every one else. Numbers can be miss – leading most of the time.
ncscoots
November 20th, 2012
2:23 pm
When will Bossman Junior make a decision and spare us of all this banter?
Would the Braves have made a firm offer during Upton’s recruiting visit?
Maybe Junior’s agent doesn’t even have all the numbers from all the suitors in hand yet. Perhaps O’Brien might enlighten, if he has time.
RC
November 20th, 2012
2:24 pm
while the Braves suffer under the cheapskatedness and incompetence (see: TV deal) of Liberty Media.
TV deal was not made under Liberty Media ownership, it was a decision made by Time Warner that Liberty inherited with the team.
Much as I wish they would expand the payroll a bit, there is no evidence that Liberty’s ownership of the team has been incompetent, and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.
RC
November 20th, 2012
2:25 pm
Efrim, I’ll tell ya what.. make a move with Texas for Olt and then weigh your options when it comes time to extent Prado long term.
Texas offered Olt….for Simmons. Wren turned the deal down, which is exactly what he should have done.