9:32 pm November 12, 2012, by David O'Brien
November 18th, 20121:02 pm
Think about the potential of Tommy Hanson pitching an entire season for the Rockies. He could make a real assault on the record for most homers allowed in a single season. This would be a real train wreck. All the more reason to deal Tommy for Fowler.
@Northbeach Scott — That is all the more reason for the Rockies to reject that deal.
If Wren can get them to take that deal well — that is a XMAS present for the Braves and their fans.
I;d give em Teheran, C. Martinez, Cunningham and Lipka for Fowler. Even throw in another P if needed.
Ahmed is a guy I would not want to trade cause he is insurance in case they cannot extend Prado when his time comes.
Thrw in Hanson in that deal I proposed too if hey are dum dum enough to take him.
November 18th, 20121:05 pm
Va Braves — I think that is offering quantity for quality & if I am KC I say a resounding NO NO NO.
Why would they move a great prospect like Myers for our middle of the pack upside junk?????
November 18th, 20121:06 pm
It doesn’t matter how good of a prospect Wil Myers is he isn’t gonna land a James Shields type or better byhimself. But If I’m Wren I would roll the dice and offer a few guys for Myers, take a shot.
Randall Delgado, Sean Gilmartin, and Matt Lipka for Wil Myers.
That trade is kinda risky tho, I think it’s safe to say Delgado will be a MLB caliber starter, the question is how good? Gilmartin has promise as a MLB starter, Lipka gives them a 20 year old for 1st round pick. Quite a bit for 1 single prospect regardless of how good he is..
November 18th, 20121:07 pm
Looks like the Falcons are putting up their second dud in a row –
It was too good to be true — season comming to a crashing dud as usual.
Falcons’ season ends in first 30 seconds of today’s game.
November 18th, 20121:08 pm
Cody Ross in left. To be honest, I have a feeling that the Braves may still be in the market to re-sign Bourn. Move Prado to 3rd.
November 18th, 20121:09 pm
Yessir, same ol crap.
We’re used to it though.
I wouldn’t consider Delgado and Gilmartin junk… We might have a bad system but 1 thing we do have is pitching. Myers is just a prospect, he’s not some proven stud. Myers isn’t gonna land them a Top Starter alone, it doesn’t work that way. Royal will have to trade Myers + More to land a Top Pitcher.
November 18th, 20121:10 pm
DeAngelo Hall picks off Nick Foles and the RG3 throws a TD pass.
November 18th, 20121:11 pm
Michael Young could be available in a trade from Texas. If Texas eats a significant portion of his $16 mil 2013 salary, I’d love to see the Braves make a move for him. He can flat out hit…plus he provides right handed power. Prado could then stay in left field.
November 18th, 20121:12 pm
I would call Degado and Gilmartin middle of the pack type of upside guys — maybe not junk but junk with respect that you are asking KC to part with a player who has superstar upside.
In a sense, that is sort of trading a Mercedes for a Ford.
Myers will land more than unproven mid range prospects like Delgado, Gilmartin and Lipka.
Nicolas…his clubhouse presence, ability to handle pitchers and call a good game, and he has been solid when having to play regularly the past couple of years. He’s a pretty good defensive catcher too. Pretty much everything you are looking for in a backup catcher.
November 18th, 20121:14 pm
The Falcons offense deserves to be Booed today.
Cannot bame the crowd for being disspirited after last week’s mess up and the debacle they ahve put up so far.
They deserve to be Booed.
November 18th, 20121:16 pm
JasonInFl, Laird cannot throw out runners, nowhere near the level that Ross can. Plus Ross his for more power.
I guess the important thing is that the Braves save $1.5 mil in payroll in each of the next 2 years.
November 18th, 20121:17 pm
Falcon defenders stay out too late last nite?????????????
The play of this defense today would make Eugene Robinson proud.
Good ole Eugene $40 dollar Roinson. What a BUMB. Biggest BUMB of Falcon lore.
November 18th, 20121:18 pm
Laird used to be one of the best at throwing out runners — but that was a couple, three yrs ago.
Don;t know how much he has left in that now.
November 18th, 20121:19 pm
I’m not saying it would be enough to land them him, but you can’t view Wil Myers as a sure thing either. I’m saying Wren has to atleast check in on it and see who they would want in terms of pitching.
November 18th, 20121:22 pm
Yes, not many teams give a back-up catcher 3+ mill a year. Laird has thrown out 35% for his career compared to Ross at 39%. Laird did have a bad year last year at 19% though.
Heath, I really don’t know how or who you define as “premium” for the two outfield spots the Braves need to fill. I tend not to think of Span and Fowler as “premium” players, though I think Span is very good and Fowler, good.
I don’t know what Wren would have to surrender to secure either player. Nor do I know what it would take for Wren to land a left-fielder.
There’s more than a few permutations to meeting the Braves’ OF needs. We’ll see.
November 18th, 20121:24 pm
27% over his last 3 years, Mac is at 25%. Not much improvement. Laird has declined his last 4 years throwing out runners. Still a good handler of a staff back there, and is + on defensive metrics
George_George, thanks for your 12:16 pm comment.
Disgusted, Laird looked over matched at the plate in the World Series.
Perhaps the Braves signed him to make Brian McCann’s defense look like Gold Glove caliber, in comparison.
November 18th, 20121:26 pm
Yeah, he hasn’t been that good the last two years. He threw out 34% in 2010.
November 18th, 20121:27 pm
Disgusted, Laird looked over matched at the plate in the World Series.
I think Wren went for the best available backup. Reality 101: Not any other David Rosses out there ready to be signed.
November 18th, 20121:35 pm
JasonInFL, last year’s 19% was terrible. Hoping that Laird will rebound, when you have a proven commodity in David Ross, all to save $1.5 mil, just doesnt make much sense.
If McCann was going to be healthy from the get go, then I could understand making this move. However, David Ross has proven that he can produce when filling in for McCann. It’s a realistic possibility that McCann could miss more than the 1st month of the season.
I have a feeling that Laird is going to make Corky Miller look like a Silver Slugger while he’s filling in for McCann.
November 18th, 20121:39 pm
Dude, it’s a back-up catcher on a limited payroll. 1.5 mill actually means quite a bit when you have around 25 to spend and need 2 OFs or an OF and a 3rd basemen and you are trying to replace a HOFer and one of the best CF in the game. That’s 6% of what they have to spend overall.
November 18th, 20121:43 pm
@FauxJohnMadden The Falcons are handling the Cardinals about as well as the Braves did.
November 18th, 20121:47 pm
Just say a big fat NO NO to the new stadium.
Its not worth it. Let em keep their stnking super bowl.
Lets see Roger Goddell put one dime toward it — HA HA HA (sarcasim).
November 18th, 20121:48 pm
JasonInFL, the Braves should have thought about that, when they decided to pick up McCann’s $12 mil team option. While publicly they are stating that McCann will probably miss the 1st month of the season, it is realistic to say that he probably wont be back until June. That’s $4 mil, prorated, that’s going down the drain.
November 18th, 20121:50 pm
I would have rather had Shoppach over Laird.
Shoppach also has a little pop in his bat.
November 18th, 20121:52 pm
Imagine them trying to sell PSL’s in this town — PSL’s do nothing for the fan.
The NFL game is the game that is out of price for the avarage fan as it is now.
Can’t afford the NFL anymore. At least not live.
November 18th, 20121:53 pm
I don’t know about BJ Upton. Damn he just reminds me of one of those players you regret signing sooner than later. I just hope what Wrench offered him, if he’s offered anything yet at all, isn’t something over the top. Make a decent offer and don’t go past it. He’s definitely not worth it.
November 18th, 20121:55 pm
November 18th, 20121:57 pm
Nicholas, I hear ya, but I just don’t think the back-up catcher is going to determine whether or not we make the playoffs. I do agree that I would like to see his CS% get back to near his career average though.
November 18th, 20122:21 pm
While publicly they [Braves] are stating that McCann will probably miss the 1st month of the season, it is realistic to say that he probably wont be back until June. — Nicholas Brody (Dentz?)
Publicly, the Braves, as reported by DOB, are saying that they expect McCann to miss the first 2-4 weeks of the season. Pretty soon, you’ll have him returning after the All Star break.
November 18th, 20122:25 pm
By saying he’s going after premium talent, I take that he’s trying to get the best available and not using players from inside our organization.
November 18th, 20122:26 pm
Braves keep a ton of things from the fans and I guess the media, too. Too much if you ask me. Hard to believe a lot of things they say especially regardig a players health, etc. McCann has been one mystery after another with him.
November 18th, 20122:32 pm
I’ll be so glad when Upton signs with someone else so everyone will finally shut up about him. Amazing that he takes up so much of your time.
November 18th, 20122:35 pm
I agree with everything you just said, however, if McCann’s health was thought to be a bigger issue, you wouldn’t see Ross going to the Red Sox.
November 18th, 20122:46 pm
Yep, no player out there is a fit for us. Your either not good enough, Too expensive, Too old, or Cost too much in trade. There is just no fits…..
November 18th, 20122:48 pm
WTF O’Brian… I thought this was a daily blog? You still work for the AJC? Or did some barbecue/music review mag steal you away?
Sorry. Just trying to keep up with the idiots (even spelled your name wrong purposely).
Yep, no player out there is a fit for us. Your either not good enough, Too expensive, Too old, or Cost too much in trade. There is just no fits….. — VaBravesFan
That’s right, PLUS, everyone on the team sucks, too.
November 18th, 20122:49 pm
“The Falcons offense deserves to be Booed today”
Watch the Chiefs for 5 minutes and get back to me. Be thankful for what you’ve got.
November 18th, 20122:54 pm
BJ Upton, not good enough and too expensive, cost draft pick too.
Justin Upton, cost too much in trade.
Angel Pagan, not good enough, gonna be overpaid
Peter Boujos, not good enough
Dexter Fowler, not good enough
Nick Swisher, too expensive, cost draft pick
Denard Span, cost too much in trade
Josh Willingham, cost too much in trade, old
Josh Hamilton, too expensive, draft pick
Michael Bourn, too expensive
Shane Victorino, not good enough, too old
Cody Ross, not good enough, overpaid
Chase Headley, cost too much in trade
The list can go on. Every player on this list has positives and negatives but the FACT is no matter who we end up with there will still be upset fans.
November 18th, 20122:55 pm
Bobby H, I’m curious, during the past two years of batting injuries, has McCann ever come back “on time” from an injury? What were McCann’s stats after coming off the DL?
My point is that given McCann’s struggles with not only coming back from injury, but also his struggles at the plate upon his return, perhaps it isnt out of the question to doubt the missing the first 2-4 weeks of the season prognosis that is being fed to Braves fans.
November 18th, 20122:56 pm
Wow, I didn’t realize how well Bourn compared to other CFs in the UZR/150 Metric. Bourn was at 22.5 in 2012. The next closest? Span at 9.6.
November 18th, 20122:57 pm
VaBravesFan, not sure how you can say that Cody Ross isnt good enough. Dude can flat out hit an play good defense. Plus he’s proven that he can hit in the post season, something many of our current players struggle with.
November 18th, 20122:58 pm
I’ve never seen so much talk over signing a backup catcher. 2 years 3.3 million WOW, that deal is really gonna kill our offseason, were totally screwed!!! I hope Jordan Schafer and Jose Constanza are ready!!
November 18th, 20123:00 pm
Cody Ross isn’t a everyday guy, he’s a good 4th OFer or platoon guy.. Average defense in all 3 spots at best, can hit LHP, but wants 3 years 25 million HAHAHA
November 18th, 20123:02 pm
My point is that given McCann’s struggles with not only coming back from injury, but also his struggles at the plate upon his return, perhaps it isnt out of the question to doubt the missing the first 2-4 weeks of the season prognosis that is being fed to Braves fans. — Nicholas Brody
My point is you’re making up a return date… it’s not based on anything but conjecture. As I said before, “if McCann’s health was thought [by the front office] to be a bigger issue, you wouldn’t see Ross going to the Red Sox.”
And as far as his previous return from injuries… unlike trying to rush back during the middle of the season, w/o proper retraining, this time McCann has the entire off-season to prepare.
November 18th, 20123:05 pm
VaBravesFan, I guess that 22 homers, 34 doubles, 81 RBIs, .807 OPS for Cody Ross in 2012 make him a 4th outfielder/platoon type of guy.
And we’re paying Dan Uggla how much?
November 18th, 20123:11 pm
His Slugging was aided by playing Boston… The guy has a career 324 OBP…
In 2009 and 2010 Cody produced a average of 256/323/410/733 14 HR 48 RBI
November 18th, 20123:15 pm
Ross had a 556 SLG and 921 OPS at Fenway
Ross had a 390 SLG and 684 OPS on Road
OPS vs LHP 1.010
OPS vs RHP 729.
November 18th, 20123:16 pm
The 5 yrs/$75M figure bandied about for both Upton and Bourn might be accurate for Upton, but Bourn and agent Boras are asking for a bigger contract than that, more dollars than that.
November 18th, 20123:17 pm
VaBravesFan, Cody Ross also helped carried the Giants to the World Series in 2010.
Also, when you hit in the middle part of the order, I could care less what your OBP is. What matters more to me, is power and knocking in runs. We’re paying Dan Uggla $13 mil to knock in runs, not draw 100 walks. Cody Ross has shown that he has the knack for knocking in runs in clutch situations, something we need in our line-up.
November 18th, 20123:19 pm
You’re comparing McCann (@3:14) to, arguably, the best catcher in baseball. What’s your point? That we don’t have Posey, we should get rid of McCann?
There’s plenty of teams in the ML that will love to hear the Braves do that? Which one of those do you root for?
November 18th, 20123:20 pm
Where did, Nicholas Brody’s, 3:14 go???
November 18th, 20123:21 pm
VaBravesFan, I’m not saying that we should pay Cody Ross $15 mil a year or that he can carry our offense. I’m saying that we need some right handed power to help balance our line-up. Against right handed pitching, we have enough lefties who can hit righties. However against lefties, we struggle, which is where Cody Ross can definitely help us.
November 18th, 20123:22 pm
The Falcons will probably win in spite of themselves today.
I am not worried about that rookie QBL Lidley one bit.
They need to stop shooting themselves in the foot though. The fumble recovery by Babineaux turned it around what could have been a real stinker.
No way they should lose to the rookie QB. AZ defense cannot do it all.
Here you go Bobby H:
Bobby H, does Brian McCann ever look like he’s ever worked out in the off season? Perhaps with Hostess going out of business, one can only hope that McCann will show up in shape.
Buster Posey just won the MVP after coming back from injury. He looks like he’s worked out in the off season. Why cant McCann do the same?
The difference between Buster Posey and McCann, is that Posey can also play 1st base on days he needs off from catching, keeping his bat in the line-up. However, McCann cant play anywhere else on the field.
Even if McCann only misses the 1st month of the season, he will still miss a number of games because of his inability to play anywhere else on the field when he cant catch.
Great way to spend $12 million.
November 18th, 20123:23 pm
DOB, PL is going to be very upset if you keep deleting his posts. LOL
November 18th, 20123:24 pm
I agree about needing help vs LHP. But Ross wants to be paid like an everyday guy. Now I wouldn’t mind Ross on a 2 year deal around 8 million for a platoon. But the man wants 3 years 25 million. It’s more about the cost than Cody Ross as a player. We know what Ross can provide.
OK, how did you do that?
November 18th, 20123:27 pm
Bobby H, I bring up Buster Posey because I wanted to point out the differences between the two. Even though McCann, when healthy, can flat out hit, the fact he plays a position that puts wear and tear on his body, along with his inability to play another position to keep his bat in the line-up, makes the $12 mil we’re paying him in 2012 a bad deal for the Braves.
November 18th, 20123:28 pm
Of course Cody Ross can help — he is a good ballplayer. He has had other good yrs before his fine yr in Boston.
Every hitter will have some trouble vs some lefties, righties, etc. Its the overall body of work that you have to look at & you can count on him to play 130 to 140 games.
Should he be rested vs some lefties — maybe that is the manager and coaches job to determine when and what pitcherrs he should get off.
The 3 yrs in the 25 mil range might be what it takes to get Cody. Based on his yr he should ask for that.
Does it fit in the Braves budget — that is where the business of numbers crunching comes in. But one way or another an every day player is going to get paid. If not us than someone else.
November 18th, 20123:29 pm
How many positions do MOST good catchers play? How about Molina?
November 18th, 20123:30 pm
Good point about Ross @3:24. Basically sums up my thoughts on Ross too.
VaBravesFan, I’d have no problem with paying Cody Ross $25 mil over the next 3 years. We’re paying McCann $12 mil in 2013, even though he’s going to be out for at least the 1st month of the season. At least Ross is healthy and can provide some power from the right side of the plate.
November 18th, 20123:33 pm
Bobby H, Yadier Molina doesnt need to play another position, because he’s hella durable. Dude can catch 130-140 games a year and still rake at the plate.
McCann, on the other hand, has had the injury bug the past 2 years.
November 18th, 20123:35 pm
There seems to be this perception that Cody Ross is a platoo player but the numbers in terms of his yearly games played, AB’s and even his splits vs RHP and LHP show he is more than a platoon guy.
He is a regular every day player and deserves to be paid like one.
If you give 2 yrs @ 16 to PED Melky, what do you give a known clean player like Ross.
He is a three time 20 HR guy, you figure you get 80 RBI from him in a good yr — he is going to get more than a couple of yrs at 4 or 5 mil in this market.
November 18th, 20123:38 pm
If Cody Ross gets an everyday job somewhere outta Boston he’ll likely be a 265/325/425 guy with 12-16 HR, that is not worth 8 million a year.
For the money, I’d rather give that to Swisher than Ross.
If its all about cost and $$$$$$$$$$$$$ than lets go for value signs late in FA for Kelly Johnson for LF and a RHH CF to platoon with Schafer.
November 18th, 20123:39 pm
Swisher should command more than Ross — should still get in the 10 to 12 mil range for 3 yrs.
Want good — gotta pay.
Disgusted, good points you made in your 3:35pm post.
November 18th, 20123:40 pm
Would the Braves part with Minor, Medlen, or Beachy for one of the young Royal pitching prospects?
November 18th, 20123:41 pm
Over the last 4 seasons Bourn has about 25-30% more Total Runs Created than Upton no matter the power difference
True about McCann’s last 2 years – his games played have been down from his previous years. But if the FO is willing to think that he’ll bounce back, so am I.
I just don’t think you can tell the future by the past 2 years… not as BMac’s age, anyway.
As far as what kind of shape he’s in… w/o seeing him with his shirt off, you just can’t tell. I don’t believe any of his past injuries are because he’s out of shape.
If he does bounce back, if you think 12 million is too much for him, now, wait’ll you see what he gets next year.
Finally, Romo to Dez. 17-13 Cowboys!!!!!!!!!!
November 18th, 20123:44 pm
Va Brave — Ross has hit 20/80 in other places than Boston.
I say he hits 18 to 22 HR , 30 doubles and 80 RBI if he is in the right spot in the lineup and that is pretty good — is it worth 8 mil per yr?????
For what some guys are getting its not totally out of the question.
I would think he would be worth in the 6 mil per yr range but the price goes up every yr — Look, we are giving Laird 1.6 for whatever he can do.
Gave jack Wilson a mil per yr for what??????? Guys just get paid.
I’d pay more for Swisher. I think I’d get more of what is needed for the Braves lineup too.
Michael Young completely stunk last year with an OPS well under 700 in a great hitters park and one of the lowest OPS+ in baseball. Guy is toast.
November 18th, 20123:46 pm
Can you kick “Field Goals”? If so apply Monday morning to Green Bay, WC. They’ll be hiring a new one next week.
November 18th, 20123:47 pm
Bobby H, I have a bad feeling that Braves management is going be faced with a bidding war for McCann’s services after the 2013 season against a team like the Yankees.
With the DH in the AL, McCann will probably flourish and put up Posey like numbers and at-bats if he could play in the AL, whereas I just dont see him performing like that with the Braves. He’d have a much better chance staying healthy in the AL because he wouldnt have to catch 130 games a year in the AL.
For the Braves to justify paying McCann a Molina type contract, McCann would have to play 135+ games a year, which isnt going to happen, if the past 2 years are any indication due to the injury bug McCann cant seem to shake.
November 18th, 20123:48 pm
Finally, Romo to Dez. 17-13 Cowboys!!!!!!!!!! — Nicholas Brody
Your Boys having a little problem with those pesky, Browns, are they?
I see DENTZ is back yet again, this time as Nicholas Brody. I guess DOB will eventually get him again… POS
November 18th, 20123:52 pm
Micheal Young’s power numbers did drop off last yr — still has good line drive doubles power.
RBI’s down. Going into his age 36 yr, not a good sign for the jack he is making.
I would pay more for Swisher too, would love to have him but he will cost and you do lose a draft pick if you get him.
Still, you want good you pay.
Man, I hate OPS and OPS +. Hate those numbers. Rather have HRS RBI’s and doubles with BA and OBP is important to a point.
November 18th, 20123:53 pm
Bobby H, the Cowboys played about as bad as a team could play in the 1st half.
The Braves won’t be in a bidding war for McCann after this year…he’s pretty much already gone. The Braves have a C they can call up next year and they don’t need to pay huge dollars for McCann when the $ could be used to pay Prado/Heyward long-term contracts. It could even be considered dumb to try to keep him after this year given the team’s other needs and C assets in the minors.
I think you are right Sneaky Pete.
November 18th, 20123:54 pm
You comparison is wrong. McCann has been in the past a silver slugger and all-star at catcher. Braves paying $12M for one of the top 2 or 3 best offensive catchers in the NL is a good use of limited resources. I don’t think paying C.Ross $25m for 3yrs is a good deal for the Braves. I think the Braves could re-sign Reed Johnson and get almost the same offensive and defensive production. C. Ross is just a slightly better version of Reed Johnson in my opinion.
If other other teams want to pay C. Ross as an everyday player fine, I don’t think he fits for the Braves.
November 18th, 20123:55 pm
I see DENTZ is back yet again, this time as Nicholas Brody. I guess DOB will eventually get him again… POS — SNEAKY PETE
So far, today, he’s been OK. His meds haven’t worn off, yet.
November 18th, 20123:56 pm
Heath — I agree that Mac is prolly gone after 13, but the catcher they are planning on for 14 and beyond is a big gamble.
I don;t believe in C. Bethancourt. Unless we see some major hitting improvement this yr. And he has zero power.
They will probably have Laird as the number one starting in 14 unless they trade for somebody.
November 18th, 20123:58 pm
Well, the Falcons break through — Arizona could not take advantage of the chances we gave em.
November 18th, 20123:59 pm
I’ve been looking at this AAA 3B for the Padres, Jedd Gyorko, as a possible trade. His stats look pretty good. If the Padres are going to stay with, Chase Headley, then Gyorko may be available.
Before you get the heave-ho, and after your game is over, check him out and let me know what you think.
Heath, if the Braves werent intending to re-sign McCann after 2013, then they wouldnt have picked up his 2013 option. They could re-signed David Ross and signed Laird to play on days Ross needed off.
Braves management realizes that many Braves fans love McCann. That’s why they picked up his $12 mil option, that’s why they are going to overpay to re-sign him after 2013.
Man, I hate OPS and OPS +. Hate those numbers. ..Disgusted
OPS is more or less the universal standard for ranking hitters now even among most non-statheads, anybody who can’t comprehend that has a real issue with arithmetic I guess.You do realize that homers and doubles are part of it right?
November 18th, 20124:00 pm
Bethancourt doesn’t have to duplicate McCann’s offensive prowess to be a successfull MLB Catcher…especially if we lock up Freeman, Heyward, Prado, Simmons proves to be adequate at SS, and we get decent offensive-minded guys in LF and CF.
November 18th, 20124:01 pm
So far, today, he’s been OK. His meds haven’t worn off, yet. _Bobby H
Paul L does not get to hang around Long even if he behaves. He burned every bridge
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