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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,357 comments Add your comment
brian
November 15th, 2012
6:34 pm
If I had a choice of Kimbrel as my closer or Dickey as one of my starters, hands down I take Kimbrel
Murph
November 15th, 2012
6:35 pm
What is Reyes doing in Dubai? Why do I picture him dressed up like Jasmine from the movie Aladdin, dancing on a table for a bunch of oil-rich princes?
David O'Brien
November 15th, 2012
6:37 pm
Kimbrel’s 2nd-place vote came from venerable, cowboy-hat-wearing Colorado scribe Tracy Ringolsby, and Kenny Rosenthal gave Chipper his 10th-place vote.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
6:37 pm
Shaun either decided to get a head-start on his weeping or he’s writing some really long, condescending, and nasty diatribes….
Murph
November 15th, 2012
6:39 pm
Shaun either decided to get a head-start on his weeping or he’s writing some really long, condescending, and nasty diatribes….
I guarantee you he’s got a post already written for either a Trout win or a Trout loss, saved off in a word doc that he’s been working on nightly for the last 2 weeks.
Both will be condescending, nasty diatribes, though, of that you can be certain.
jfp
November 15th, 2012
6:41 pm
Kind of neat for Rosenthal to give # 10 his tenth place vote. Kind of symbolic and respectful at the same time.
Russell Bell
November 15th, 2012
6:41 pm
I don’t really care, I love Trout, but it will kinda surprise me if the first triple crown winner in 50 (whatever) years does not win it.
This.
jfp
November 15th, 2012
6:44 pm
No disrespect to Trout, he had a great year. But I’m not sure there is a more feared hitter in all of baseball than Cabrera (unless the Giants are pitching to him).
BFChris28
November 15th, 2012
6:45 pm
Miggy wins it
David O'Brien
November 15th, 2012
6:45 pm
22 of 28 first-place votes for MVP Cabrera.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
6:45 pm
MLB @MLB
BREAKING: @Tigers 3B @MiguelCabrera wins @officialBBWAA American League MVP Award.
It’s okay Shaun… cry on my shoulder
Murph
November 15th, 2012
6:47 pm
Brace yourselves for days and days of Shaun and stats and Shaun and stats and Shaun and stats.
We really, really, really need Frank to make a big signing tomorrow. That’s the only thing that can possibly save the blog. That or a Samantha visit.
MFin04
November 15th, 2012
6:47 pm
“22 of 28 first-place votes for MVP Cabrera.”
Lol. Probably should clarify which one. I freaked when I thought Melky still won despite everything! Lol, coming down from that shock. It isn’t as bad that Miguel won
And please say no to BJ Upton. I can’t have a sub .300 on base guy in my lineup…EVER.
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
6:47 pm
Old School > New School fad.
For a day, one 4 that good guys.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
6:50 pm
keithlaw @keithlaw
Expected it. Luddites to the end. RT @putt_4_dough: Miguel Cabrera wins AL #MVP I can see smoke coming out of the ears @keithlaw
keithlaw @keithlaw
Rage, rage against the dying of the light, Cabrera voters.
He mad…
nolie
November 15th, 2012
6:50 pm
Law is Shaun’s twin, first thing outta his mouth is that it shoulda been Trout as if everybody in the world was not already aware of what he thought and why. Obession is such an ugly sight…..
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
6:52 pm
Keith said that if Hamilton hit 2 more HR, therefore keeping Miggy from getting the triple Crown, he doesn’t win it.
Trader Jack
November 15th, 2012
6:53 pm
And they wonder why metrics have not been accepted by the casual fan
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
6:56 pm
Keith Law is a dumb bastard.
Murph
November 15th, 2012
6:56 pm
Keith said that if Hamilton hit 2 more HR, therefore keeping Miggy from getting the triple Crown, he doesn’t win it.
Keith said that if Hamilton, future Braves, hit 2 more HR, therefore keeping Miggy from getting the triple Crown, he doesn’t win it.
old man
November 15th, 2012
6:57 pm
OK, now back to the Braves.
Gone Viral
November 15th, 2012
7:00 pm
I would have voted for Miggy but the massive voting gap between Trout and him is inexplicable.
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
7:00 pm
Metrics are stupid — the casual fan is too smart to tolerate that gobbledygook.
Dismissing RBI;s is the dumbest thing of all — try winnng without RBI’s.
The metric people are like elitist politicians and blue ribbon panell experts that think they know how to run your life better than you can.
Sabermetrics = Every evil in the universe.
David O'Brien
November 15th, 2012
7:00 pm
From Danny Knobler on Twitter: Albert Pujols finished 17th in MVP voting. 1st time in his career he has ever been out of the top 10.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
7:03 pm
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Let the sabermetricians howl. I preferred Trout, but have zero problem with Cabrera winning. Late-season performance compelling
I like how you think Murph! Hamilton will be the 2013 NL MVP for our Bravos. And we’ll have a WS Title
Trader Jack
November 15th, 2012
7:07 pm
Just a warning to everyone, make sure you have your flak jackets on tomorrow, because Shaun will be here with guns blazing
Russell Bell
November 15th, 2012
7:07 pm
Old School > New School fad.
For a day, one 4 that good guys.
If I had a vote, I would have cast it for Cabrera. That being said, this was a back slapping award, not a competition to see who won the old west, or post-WWII America, or whatever your fantasy USA from the ‘good ole days’ looks like.
Also, your blog name is eye-roll worthy.
Gone Viral
November 15th, 2012
7:11 pm
“Dismissing RBI;s is the dumbest thing of all — try winnng without RBI’s.”
Nonsense. RBIs are an irrelevant stat that are lineup dependent. Runs, on the other hand, matter. Winning and losing is baseball is predicated upon runs scored.
Playoffs!!!
November 15th, 2012
7:18 pm
Winning and losing baseball is predicated on RUNS DRIVEN IN. Somone has to drive them in, or they don’t score.
Runs are just as much lineup-dependent as RBIs. You can get on base all day, but if no one drives you in—runners are stranded. Hence the LOB stat.
Gone Viral
November 15th, 2012
7:23 pm
“Winning and losing baseball is predicated on RUNS DRIVEN IN.”
This is the logic that used to be utilized (weakly) to defend Jeff Francoeur. The line of thinking was found guilty and mercifully executed.
DiamondbackMac
November 15th, 2012
7:25 pm
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
#BlueJays-#Marlins deal likely not finalized until Fri. or Sat. Reyes was in Dubai. Returning tonight. Needs to fly to Florida for physical.
Must have been in Dubai converting cash to gold.
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
7:26 pm
Runs scored and Runs Batted In — Both are important. Without one you do not have the other.
To think that RBI’s are completely irrelevant is what is nonsense.
Just like BA and OPB — they both have importance. Paying attention to OPB is one of the good things that has come out of the advanced stats —
The metric formulas like WAR and VORPare dumb, no one knows how to compute it and its never going to be accepted my most fans. .
Jeff R
November 15th, 2012
7:28 pm
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal #BlueJays-#Marlins deal likely not finalized until Fri. or Sat. Reyes was in Dubai. Returning tonight. Needs to fly to Florida for physical.
Must have been in Dubai converting cash to gold.
If so, smart man.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
7:30 pm
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick
Alex Gordon, Torii Hunter & Austin Jackson were 5-7-8 in the AL in WAR. None of them received a single MVP vote. @keithlaw
Too bad sametrics aren’t everything….
Playoffs!!!
November 15th, 2012
7:30 pm
Don’t get me wrong, the new metrics are valid and long overdue, but they do dismiss RBIs . And that’s not right.
I, for one, never defended Francoeur. But he was a bad offensive player for a lot of reasons.
Jeff R
November 15th, 2012
7:30 pm
I like how you think Murph! Hamilton will be the 2013 NL MVP for our Bravos. And we’ll have a WS Title
Hammy needs to lighten the personal baggage. Dr. Phil might be able to help.
kenhotlanta
November 15th, 2012
7:32 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan: “Hamilton will be the 2013 NL MVP for our Bravos. And we’ll have a WS Title.”
If he doesn’t get lost in Buckhead wandering from bar to bar.
kenhotlanta
November 15th, 2012
7:33 pm
Jeff R: I believe we were thinking the same thing.
Jeff R
November 15th, 2012
7:34 pm
I like the new metrics because they’re often obtuse and can be used to obscure and misrepresent as much as enlighten. Yes, there are intangibles, non-quantifiable contributions that don’t neatly fit into categories. X-factors.
Science and mathematics have their limits.
Jeff R
November 15th, 2012
7:35 pm
kenhotlanta – yes, in fact!
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
7:35 pm
Just don’t let Hamilton and Uggla become best buds… we all know Dan likes to party
brian
November 15th, 2012
7:37 pm
rumors abound about the Royals doing a big trade for pitching – mentions Billy Butler and Seattle or Wil Myers to Tampa (for someone like Matt Moore but the Royals are even balking at that deal). It also mentions that it is not known yet whether discussions have occurred regarding Mike Moustakis or Alex Gordon.
Either Moustakis or Gordon would be a good fit on the Braves especially if we sign BJ Upton or Pagan to play CF (since each can bat righty). Solid young players who would be under club control for years. KC needs pitching and we need either a LF or 3B.
At the least it will give the Twins something to think about if they want some of our young pitching.
Jeff R
November 15th, 2012
7:48 pm
Either Moustakis or Gordon would be a good fit on the Braves especially if we sign BJ Upton or Pagan to play CF (since each can bat righty). Solid young players who would be under club control for years. KC needs pitching and we need either a LF or 3B.
Dayton Moore still has his Atlanta ties. Wren and Moore may be talking, though there’s no reports of such happening.
ncbravesfan90
November 15th, 2012
7:53 pm
Mark Bowman @mlbbowman
B.J. Upton visits with Braves at Turner Field
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
7:54 pm
No….. Come on Frank
George_George
November 15th, 2012
7:56 pm
The LAIRD signing and money spent would not have been nessicary if WREN had signed ROSS to a two year deal for ressonal money before ROSS could have knowen he was worth 6.2 MIL to SOX. Money to LAIRD could have gone for outfielders we need for CF and LF. FRANK W messed this thing up.
ncbravesfan90
November 15th, 2012
7:57 pm
Sounds like the Braves are making a big push for BJ Upton. I would love that if Wren could pull it off, Upton is the best OF option out there on the FA market, not named Hamilton.
brian
November 15th, 2012
7:57 pm
Wren could also show interest in Upton to show the Twins he is glad to look elsewhere for his CF to hopefully get the Twins to come down on their asking price for Span.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 15th, 2012
7:57 pm
For maximum blog pissoffage, I think we need Cody Ross and BJ Upton to sign up…
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
7:57 pm
??? Laird is likely cheaper than Ross. We probably saving 1.5 to 2mil compared to what we would have payed Ross
BFChris28
November 15th, 2012
7:59 pm
BJ Upton LF … Denard Span CF … Jason Heyward RF
I would like that
brian
November 15th, 2012
7:59 pm
to fire up the blog, what Wren is going to do is sign BJ Upton, trade Prado in a package for Justin Upton, and let Francisco take over at 3B
CB
November 15th, 2012
7:59 pm
Hugo,that would do it for me. LOL
brian
November 15th, 2012
8:00 pm
TOBF – that is an extra, solid bench player for $1.5-2 million
Trader Jack
November 15th, 2012
8:03 pm
Just say no to B J Upton
George_George
November 15th, 2012
8:04 pm
brian
November 15th, 2012
7:59 pm
to fire up the blog, what Wren is going to do is sign BJ Upton, trade Prado in a package for Justin Upton, and let Francisco take over at 3B
************************************************************************
brian, Shame oh you for even saying it. WREN might read this blog. We should not give him crazy ideas.
BFChris28
November 15th, 2012
8:06 pm
Sign BJ Upton, trade Juan Francisco + for Justin Upton sounds better
BFChris28
November 15th, 2012
8:08 pm
Juan Francsico, Tyler Pastornicky, Delgado (or Teheran) and Spruill for J-Upton would be fair
BFChris28
November 15th, 2012
8:12 pm
1. Jason Heyward RF
2. Martin Prado 3B
3. BJ Upton CF
4. Freddie Freeman 1B
5. Justin Upton LF
6. Brian McCann C
7. Dan Uggla 2B
8. Andrelton Simmons SS
or
1. Andtrelton Simmons SS
2. Martin Prado 3B
3. Jason Heyward RF
4. Justin Upton LF
5. Brian McCann C
6. BJ Upton CF
7. Freddie Freeman 1B
8. Dan Uggla 2B
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
8:13 pm
I ain’t batting BJ higher than 8th… he can take his pitiful, crappy .316 OBP and stuff it down there. His other issues make him less appealing. There’s a reason Rays fans wanted him gone for so long
JOHN
November 15th, 2012
8:22 pm
The possibility of landing both Upton brothers is so exciting!
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
8:24 pm
“For maximum blog pissoffage, I think we need Cody Ross and BJ Upton to sign up…”
You really could do worse. Really.
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
8:27 pm
http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/2012/11/15/b-j-upton-visits-with-braves-at-turner-field/
BJ Upton at Turner Field today…..
N8
November 15th, 2012
8:27 pm
“Also, even if Trout or Cabrera played on the Astros, their value wouldn’t change. It takes an entire team to win enough to make the playoffs. The MVP is obviously an individual award.”
yes and no. 2011 Tigers for example. 95-67 record. In games NOT started by Justin Verlander?
70-58
From my angle, one guy CAN make that much of a difference.
Yup. Takes a team to win games 1-162. It REALLY takes a team effort to win in the playoffs and ultimately win a WS.
But if you think one guy can’t make a difference Shawn? And you don’t actually grasp what it’s meant in MLB to be the MVP?
Good luck.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
8:30 pm
It’s amazing Shaun hasn’t shown up yet…
The possibility of landing both Upton brothers is so exciting!
Nope. If he’s signed, I’ll be leading the angry mob to protest outside the Ted.
Trader Jack
November 15th, 2012
8:31 pm
Keith Law is really foaming at the mouth
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
8:31 pm
I would of voted for Trout. The difference is the two is alarming, though. Trout was a very distant 2nd place – and that is strange. Should of been a lot closer.
ChattTownBrian
November 15th, 2012
8:31 pm
If we do sign Upton, I wouldn’t mind
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
8:32 pm
I’m surprised Upton at Turner Field isn’t getting more pub. I know free agents make visits, though.
ChattTownBrian
November 15th, 2012
8:34 pm
If we do sign Upton I wouldn’t mind Victorino for LF or switch he and Upton’s positions. That gives you that right handed power guy and then a leadoff man. That would make a nice offseason. I’m getting excited.
N8
November 15th, 2012
8:34 pm
Keith Law is a douchebag. I haven’t typed that in a while….. that felt GOOD.
ncbravesfan90
November 15th, 2012
8:34 pm
The day after Torii Hunter made a visit to the Detroit Tigers he was signed…..
Trader Jack
November 15th, 2012
8:35 pm
Efrim
It’s not an award for the best player, but the most valuable, which brings into play intangibles not measured by stats
ncbravesfan90
November 15th, 2012
8:36 pm
“If we do sign Upton I wouldn’t mind Victorino for LF or switch he and Upton’s positions. That gives you that right handed power guy and then a leadoff man. That would make a nice offseason. I’m getting excited.”
Totally agree. I do think Upton would stay in CF and Victorino in LF as he was for most of this past year. No doubt, getting very excited!
ChattTownBrian
November 15th, 2012
8:37 pm
Looking at Upton’s numbers I see a good number 6 hitter who can drive guys like Prado, Heyward and Freeman in.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
8:37 pm
Thanks ncbravesfan… I’m ready to hurl
If we get BJ we still need a CF
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
8:39 pm
Good number 6 hitter… well, maybe. As long as Freddie sees it that way. I’d still put him 7 or 8. No way he’s in front of Uggla or a healthy McCann.
N8
November 15th, 2012
8:40 pm
“I love saying that and elbowing friends with a wide smile….” Efrim
yup. It’s funny, because when we get into movie quote mode, we all use the same lines, and the same ones of us say the next line. It’s like clock work.
I had a guy that was singing with us for a while about 10 years ago and without fail, when it was his turn, he would drop out the:
“Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?”
Always kind of creeped us out. LOL.
Nowhere man
November 15th, 2012
8:42 pm
Great win for Miggy. He deserved it.
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
8:42 pm
At the very least with Upton – it keeps the Phillies on their toes. Maybe we can get Amaro to go to six years on Bossman Junior.
ncbravesfan90
November 15th, 2012
8:47 pm
“If we get BJ we still need a CF”
BJ Upton would play CF, and does it quite well to be sure. Then you can sign a Victorino or Pagan to play LF and leadoff, or trade for Fowler to play LF and leadoff.
ChattTownBrian
November 15th, 2012
8:49 pm
I see Wren making a big move very soon. He works fast. Maybe it’ll be Upton, maybe not.
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
8:50 pm
Maybe they really do see Upton as a middle of the order hitter because of the home run total this past year. If so, they could go get a Victorino or Span to play LF and leadoff, I guess. That’d be a very good defensive outfield. I know Upton isn’t great, but he has the tools to be I guess – and there are some who believe he is a good defender there(Law, for one).
Trader Jack
November 15th, 2012
8:50 pm
Efrim
Upton is a perfect fit for the Phillies, but they have serious concerns about the baggage he brings, and how it would play in the clubhouse and with their fans
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
8:52 pm
Can someone who is from Atlanta or know the area explain to me the project and the potential it has? Is it basically just building the area up with hotels/shops/restaurants/bars? If so, that’d be great – would definitely increase attendance, in theory. Not sure by how much, though – but more fans is a great thing for the Braves.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
8:53 pm
BJ Upton would play CF, and does it quite well to be sure
Not from what I’ve heard… he isn’t usually good, just average or below, and when he gets sulky, it’s worse. I’d put him in LF and get Span. I’d prefer him in CF. Plus he fits Frank’s promise of targeting a CF/Leadoff hitter.
Phils have concerns about Upton’s baggage…. we should too
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
8:56 pm
From what I’ve read, Efrim, theyd be taking the current parking lots and turning those into shopping areas with bars/restaurants/stores/etc. Supposed to “spruce” up the area and make it more inviting. With more to do, they think more fans will come down and the locals will go to the stadium and still have something to do after. Unless they’re cracking down on crime, building up police force, and adding a Marta stop though, not sure it’ll help a whole lot.
Still better than what we’ve got now though.
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
8:56 pm
Upton ranked as a minus defensive player in both baseball reference and fangraphs.
Have not seen alot of him on a day to day basis but from what I read its a mixed bag how he is perceived as a defensive player.
Bill James ranked him as a 23 HR 83 RBI guy for 2013 for whatever its worth. .248 BA and .320 something OBP.
Don;t know how seriously I should take that.
Tying him up for 5 or 6 yrs has its risks, could be a big reward. Really mixed feelings on BJ.
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
8:57 pm
How about Upton for LF and Fowler for CF?????
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
8:59 pm
Only if it’s Justin!
Maybe…. that wouldn’t be as bad
ncbravesfan90
November 15th, 2012
9:00 pm
Upton had the most assists among AL center fielders in 2012…
ChattTownBrian
November 15th, 2012
9:00 pm
Awww we need some baggage in Atlanta. He’s one guy with some attitude around a group of squeaky cleaners. We’ll be alright.
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
9:01 pm
From what I’ve read, Efrim, theyd be taking the current parking lots and turning those into shopping areas with bars/restaurants/stores/etc. Supposed to “spruce” up the area and make it more inviting. With more to do, they think more fans will come down and the locals will go to the stadium and still have something to do after. Unless they’re cracking down on crime, building up police force, and adding a Marta stop though, not sure it’ll help a whole lot.
@TOBF — Adding a MARTA line would do wonders, but how profitable would the investment be & who would pay for it??????
It sounds nice — it always does. Then its a matter of it being cost effective.
The ideas are always worth talking about. If not done right its a waste.
And they need more good parking.
ChattTownBrian
November 15th, 2012
9:03 pm
Justin Upton would cost a ton in prospects/players. Too much I would guess. We have JHey who is just going to get better and better, along with FF. We WILL have a winner of a team in ‘13. Things are falling in place and Wren is a slick GM.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
9:07 pm
Didnt Alfonso Soriano rank among top LF in assists recently? Doesnt mean he’s a good fielder.
Sure, I’ll take a guy w/ baggage… if he produces very well. BJ ain’t doing that. Hamilton is though. He’s the only guy with “issues” Id consider
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
9:11 pm
Mark Bowman @mlbbowman
@jbrady1212 they’re obviously aware of the stats. Upton admits he was overaggressive while in Tampa’s injury-depleted lineup this year
But will that take away from the power? From what I read, the bat speed is still there but he was swinging through fastballs up in the zone trying to take em deep all the time. The OBP has to be better than it was in 2012, obviously. I’m not sure he’ll ever have it up to where it was in 2008, but he’s gotta be at least around a .340 mark. He hasn’t hit that in 4 seasons, so you’re really hoping that the switch to the weaker league helps too.
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
9:13 pm
Bowman was on BJ Upton pretty early this offseason saying he was a target. He might not be as wrong as we always think he is. That’s the truth…he called Upton very early in the offseason as a potential target.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 15th, 2012
9:16 pm
Pretty sure the taxpayers and city would have to fot the bill. I mean Kasim propsed it, so the govt has to be involved somewhere.
And yes, the Braves do need more parking. This idea to turn them into shops instead doesnt sound great on the surface and Im sure the Braves wouldnt like it. We’ll see.
The best thing of course is to move them out of downtown. Get a stadium in Cobb or Fulton… or maybe Doraville. Marta goes out there I believe. Falcons need to move too. I believe those areas were ranked towads the bottom in overall safety for all sports venues surroundings in the US
Efrim
November 15th, 2012
9:17 pm
jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick
Free agent OF B.J. Upton spent the day in Atlanta visiting #braves, as @mlbbowman has previously reported.
Disgusted
November 15th, 2012
9:19 pm
If he can be a .340 OBP (or close to it) with similar power stats in doubles HRS and RBIS that he has had the last 2 yrs and play at least a decent OF that is okay by me.
.340 is the standard of what is a decent OBP.
I don;t know if that is worth what we have to pay but who am I to judge what they should pay him.
Still need another OF.