9:32 pm November 12, 2012, by David O'Brien
November 15th, 20125:02 pm
They may not be jacking payroll up to $150 million, but at least they allow the front office people to do what they do
Exactly. You think Cherington wants to hand out crazy multi-year deals and give up draft picks for free agents? No way. That team needs to start getting back to drafting, player development, smart signings. I understand they aren’t going to be the Mets at $90 million – but again, short term signings will do the trick. Value guys. Their needs are in corner outfield spots and 1st base – easier to find than up-the-middle players, I think.
Hard not to laugh thinking of those scenes. Good stuff.
Eddie Murphy was so awesome before he dove head first into Disney movies and such. Coming to America, The Golden Child, Beverly Hills Cop…Axl Friggin’ Foley.
November 15th, 20125:03 pm
Thanks for the explanation scoots.
BJ in left and Span in CF wouldn’t be bad, with Upton hitting in 5, 6, or 7 spot. Of course that probably means Uggs in 4 spot.
Which means that BJ in left and Span in CF would be bad. I want Uggla hitting 2nd or 6th.
The Golden Child is an underrated flick, for sure. Eddie Murphy was awesome.
I was just repearing what Cal said. Pretty knowledgable guy about baseball…but, of course, it doesn’t fit into you stat box, so it’s a useless opinion. We all know that reality can all be quantified with numbers. Otherwise, it can’t be true.
November 15th, 20125:04 pm
You know who’s going to benefit the most from the AL MVP controversy?
Every writer who doesn’t have to explain why they left Ryan Braun off their NL MVP ballot.
(not necessarily for #1, but he’s GOT to be in the top 10)
November 15th, 20125:05 pm
So you’re content to finish out of the money?
November 15th, 20125:06 pm
Their needs are in corner outfield spots and 1st base – easier to find than up-the-middle players, I think.
ESPECIALLY when you’ve got money to spend. Which they certain seem to have.
David O’Brien @ajcbraves
Posey and Cabrera (by a nose over Trout, on performance in Sept) RT @stephentynes: @ajcbraves If you had vote, where would you land on MVPs?
Yeah, but I prefer that quiet uninvolvement from a concert-goer to spending three hours listening to a Mixxo clone, in the seat behind.
At least with the concert-goer, I know there’s a smaller chance that I’ll end up in jail.
November 15th, 20125:11 pm
Maybe Oswald was injured that day
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by that. If the only thing you consider finishing “in the money” is winning the WS, then I’d say I’d rather have a chance at winning on an annual basis than pushing all my chips into the middle every 7 years or so and being done with the season by May every other year.
November 15th, 20125:12 pm
2 things that I found interesting about yesterday’s Wren interview:
1. The Braves will have a payroll between $95-100mil
2. The Braves have had several discussions with Hamilton’s agent
This is the first time in a long time that the team has had a $100mil payroll figure next to their name. We already know that they’ve got around $25mil to spend this offseason, and if the $100mil figure is to be believed, then they’ve got even more.
Given that the two main needs are CF and LF, and that Wren has said he’s comfortable dealing pitchers to get some of the pieces they need, then it seems to me like he’s seriously considering making a play to go after Hamilton. The team has enough money available to go after Span and Upton without raising payroll to the $100mil mark. They’ve got enough money to go after Bourn and Willingham without raising payroll.
Something about a higher payroll and multiple Hamilton discussions is really making me think that Wren is about to push all-in on the slugger.
November 15th, 20125:16 pm
November 15th, 20125:18 pm
I cant help but think that the Braves are financially planning to extend Mac..and that may very well be a huge factor in financial decisions made when filling the CF and LF holes.
November 15th, 20125:19 pm
Basically, to me the mark of a successful season is not whether or not you won the WS. Obviously that’s the ultimate goal, but there’s value in the journey to get there, and a season can be a “success” even if falling short of that ultimate goal.
The best example of this to me is the 2010 Braves. Yes, they lost in the first round of the playoffs in heartbreaking fashion. But the path they took to get there was entertaining as hell, and that team had all the drama and heart you can ever hope your favorite team provides in a given season. While I do love the teams and the players from 90’s, I’d say that from player 1 through 25 that’s probably my favorite Braves “team” of my lifetime. Just such a great season of memories…(even the painful ones).
November 15th, 20125:20 pm
If Wren is mentioning their names nationally, they ain’t coming here. Just a sop to the fans ala “Hey we tried “
November 15th, 20125:21 pm
Obviously September hitting matters more than the combo of hitting, fielding and baserunning through the entire 6 months of a season.
The most valuable player is different from the player who gets the MVP award. Just ask the folks in the know, the front office types, etc.
November 15th, 20125:24 pm
oh shove the hyperbole Shaun
The MVP vote is going to be about the voters’ “anti-sabermetric” status, the Triple Crown and performance in the last month of the season over who was actually the most valuable player in 2012.
If you told any front office they could go back to the beginning of the season and start a team with any player just for the 2012 season, Trout would be first and it wouldn’t be close. There is no doubt in my mind.
November 15th, 20125:25 pm
The Braves have not won a WS since ‘95, seventeen years ago. There comes a time when you need to take that chance
November 15th, 20125:26 pm
CB, I’m only on page 23, but I love your idea–Freeman and another player (Delgado?, Teheran?), and maybe even another prospect, for Stanton. Absolutely then sign Laroche for 1B. You might be paying him 13M, but you’re really paying for Stanton. That would be an awesome deal.
its the MVP bot the best player, thays why they have a POY award too. he wasn’t even valuable enough to get them to the playoffs. If he was MVP he woulda buckled up and hunkered down and dragged them there with true grit
November 15th, 20125:27 pm
There comes a time when you need to take that chance…TJ
tell it to the Cubbies
November 15th, 20125:29 pm
Murph,Braves sign Hamilton and I will buy your 4yr old a Christmas present.
Signing Hamilton would take pressure off guys like Uggla, Heyward, Freeman and Prado.
Would love to have that bat in the middle of that group of guys, plus a healthy Brian McCann.
Christ, they haven’t even named the winner yet, and a certain faction is in full battle mode
November 15th, 20125:30 pm
ESPN Insider on FA values
I served as a general manager for more than a decade, and committing big dollars to a free agent is always a gamble. You have to try to balance age, injury history, tools, performance and makeup before making an offer.
The following is my estimate of what I what I think will be the 50 biggest contracts given out this winter, based on average annual value (AAV). (I also did this last year if you want to check how I did.) I use AAV because that is what the MLB Players Association is most concerned with when evaluating contracts. When the AAV is equal, tie goes to the contract with greater overall value.
This is not my preferential order, and player salaries and terms are often based on position, supply and demand. To get a better feel for the market, I also talked to agents, scouts and execs who will be heavily involved with this offseason’s bidding.
A few other things to keep in mind as you read this list.
• Industry revenues continue to grow, and that will have a huge impact on free-agent contracts.
• The value of middle relievers continues to grow — expect their salaries to do the same. This particular free-agent class has a solid quantity of quality setup relievers, so expect some surprising salaries for their ilk.
• Corner outfielders are scarce outside of Josh Hamilton, Nick Swisher, Cody Ross and Torii Hunter, but center field is deep with B.J. Upton, Michael Bourn, Shane Victorino and Angel Pagan.
• There is only one shortstop on the board, Stephen Drew, and I think he will benefit from that significantly.
• I think Angel Pagan has a chance to become the Aaron Rowand of this free-agent class with someone overpaying beyond his abilities because of his successful 2012.
• Hamilton’s situation obviously will be the most interesting. He’s looking for seven years, but I think he’ll get five with a club option.
With all that said, let’s get to the value rankings.
NOTE: Ages are as of Opening Day 2013.
Analysis: His history of injuries, addiction and lapses on the field this year will prevent him from getting the type of contract length that players such as Joey Votto and Prince Fielder received. Four years would be the most appropriate length, but someone will offer him five with a club option. In terms of AAV, I think he will land just north of Votto and south of Fielder.
BEST FITS: Brewers, Rangers, Red Sox
Analysis: The former Cy Young winner is the top of the class, and his market value was set by the long-term contracts signed by Cole Hamels and Matt Cain earlier this year. I think he will get a little less than those guys, but not by as much as most people think because I think he proved last year that he can perform in any market size and in big games in a pennant race.
BEST FITS: Angels, Dodgers, Rangers
Analysis: Johnny Damon was paid $13 million per year in his 2006-09 contract, Aaron Rowand brought in $12 million per year in his 2008 contract, and it won’t surprise me if Bourn gets paid more than both of them. He’s a Gold Glove centerfielder who can get on base and steal a base. He’s represented by Scott Boras, who will make sure Bourn gets paid more than Upton.
BEST FITS: Phillies, Nationals, Reds, Braves
Analysis: There have been a lot of contracts given to outfielders in recent years that seemed crazy at the time and seem more insane in retrospect. (Jayson Werth and Vernon Wells are prime examples.) Point is, all it takes is one team to skew the market, and Upton will get more than people think. I like him more than Bourn, but I think Bourn will get a little more cash.
BEST FITS: Phillies, Nationals, Reds
Analysis: His value grew significantly in August and September, then skyrocketed in the postseason when he demonstrated that he could get it done on the biggest stage. I’m estimating that he will fall short of C.J. Wilson’s AAV of $15.5 million last winter but should be able to come close to Mark Buehrle’s deal with the Marlins.
BEST FITS: Tigers, Orioles, Dodgers, Royals
Analysis: Last winter, Jonathan Papelbon was the only closer to get a lucrative multiyear deal. I expect Soriano to get the biggest deal of any reliever this year, but he won’t get a fourth year.
BEST FITS: Angels, Tigers, Nationals
Analysis: We are waiting to see whether Kuroda will be accepting his qualifying offer of $13.3 million to stay with the Yankees for another year. The Dodgers might be willing to give him a two-year contract, but expect Kuroda to stay with the Yankees or return to Los Angeles, where his family was extremely happy. If he signs a multiyear deal, expect the AAV to be less than the qualifying offer.
BEST FITS: Yankees, Dodgers
Analysis: Lohse has proved in the past two years that’s he’s a reliable starter with a great sinker/slider combo. I expect him to get a deal similar to one John Danks signed in terms of AAV, but Lohse’s age will limit the length of the contract.
BEST FITS: Royals, Orioles, Dodgers
Analysis: He’s coming off of a career year and has special value to the Nats because he brings balance to their lineup as a left-handed hitter. He received the qualifying offer but should command a three-year deal with a lower AAV.
BEST FITS: Nationals, Orioles, Indians
Analysis: Swisher is incredibly consistent: Very good in the regular season, bad in the postseason. His poor playoff performance will work against him, but he can get on base, has some pop and plays with a lot of energy.
BEST FITS: Orioles, Phillies, Braves, Tigers, Mariners
Analysis: As a key member of a title team, Pagan is poised to be overpaid. He was excellent in 2012 but still takes some bad routes in the outfield.
BEST FITS: Giants, Nationals, Tigers, Phillies
Analysis: Haren is tough to predict because he is a West Coast guy who will only entertain East Coast teams if there is a big difference in dollars. If the medicals on his back are clean, there is a legitimate possibility he’ll get a third year or an option year; otherwise, he’ll get two years with incentive clauses based on innings pitched or games started.
BEST FITS: Dodgers, Padres, Cubs
Analysis: Dempster was great with the Cubs in 2012 but hurt his value with a mediocre performance with the Rangers after a midseason trade. He could end up back in Chicago, but the Cubs would be signing him with thoughts of flipping him in July.
BEST FITS: Dodgers, Braves, Cubs, Blue Jays
Analysis: Knee problems have hindered Drew’s play, but if healthy, he could be a bargain as a shortstop with pop and on-base skills. However, the lack of shortstops on the market could drive up his price.
BEST FITS: A’s, Red Sox, Cardinals, Pirates, Twins
Analysis: He’s a durable midrotation starter who has been an integral part of two straight playoff teams. Toronto seems to be most interested.
BEST FITS: Blue Jays, Royals, Indians
Analysis: Hunter would like to say with the Angels, but they didn’t give him a qualifying offer, which suggests they don’t want him back. He could end up as Swisher’s replacement in New York.
SIGNED: Tigers — 2 years, $26 million
Analysis: He’s the greatest closer of all time and the highest paid in the sport at $15 million in 2012. The Yankees want him to come back, but, at age 43 and coming back from injury, they’ll ask him to pitch for less with performance bonuses that can bring it up if he stays healthy.
BEST FITS: Yankees
Analysis: He was impressive in 2012 after no pitching in 2011, and there is no reason to think he can’t be just as good in 2013.
BEST FITS: Yankees
Analysis: He could be the sleeper of the class, and the A’s, Cubs, White Sox and Blue Jays have all been in contact with his agent. Injuries limited McCarthy in 2012, which could keep his cost down, but he really came into his own the year before.
BEST FITS: A’s, Cubs, White Sox, Blue Jays
Analysis: Victorino is in decline, but he is still a quality outfielder you love to have on your side. His contract will exceed his talent because of his makeup, and he’s better suited for a club where he’s not asked to lead off.
BEST FITS: Reds, Braves, Giants
Analysis: He wasn’t able to repeat his incredible 2011, when he had a .414 OBP with 30 homers, but he still hit for power and can take a walk. He should stay in the AL, where he can DH.
BEST FITS: Red Sox, Astros, Rangers
Analysis: He can still play third and would be a nice stopgap for the Phillies or White Sox. And don’t rule out a return to Boston, as the Red Sox need a first baseman.
BEST FITS: White Sox, Phillies, Indians, D-backs
Analysis: Martin’s .211 batting average will limit the market, but he did hit 21 homers. The Yankees don’t have a catcher and would like him back.
BEST FITS: Yankees, White Sox
Analysis: Pierzynski is coming off of a career year, but, given his age, I doubt teams will expect him to repeat it. He’d like to return to Chicago, and I expect he’ll be back unless the Yankees step up.
BEST FITS: White Sox, Rangers, Mariners
Analysis: He missed the season rehabbing from Tommy John surgery, and has a chance to be a real bargain. Someone will get a top-notch setup man who could be a real asset in the second half.
BEST FITS: Reds, Nationals, Rangers
Analysis: He was headed for a four-year, $40 million deal before his positive PED test, and he could be a good bargain for a club willing to take a gamble.
BEST FITS: Tigers, Blue Jays, Phillies
Analysis: The health of his shoulder clouds his status, but he has a great feel for pitching and is a good mid-rotation starter when healthy. Just be sure to thoroughly examine those medical reports.
BEST FITS: Blue Jays, Red Sox, Cubs, Brewers
Analysis: He pitched well for the O’s after they acquired him from Arizona during the season, and manager Buck Showalter wants him back. He’s nothing special, but he’s durable.
BEST FITS: Orioles, Angels, Indians
Analysis: The Red Sox were wise not to give him the $13.3 million qualifying offer, as he surely would have accepted. He wants a three-year deal, but his low OBP will limit the market for him.
BEST FITS: Phillies, Tigers, Red Sox, Braves
Analysis: He had a nice year for the Reds hitting in the cozy confines of Great American Ballpark, and is hoping to capitalize on that with the type of deal Josh Willingham got last winter. He’ll come up short, but could do better than expected due to the lack of good corner-outfield options.
BEST FITS: Reds, Indians, Tigers
Analysis: Broxton boosted his stock with a 2.48 ERA in 60 appearances last season and hopes to get a job as a closer.
BEST FITS: Reds, Rangers, Cubs, Twins
Analysis: He’s bounced between starting and relieving the past few seasons and has let clubs know he’s willing to do both. Myers was good out of the bullpen (3.31 ERA) in 2012.
BEST FITS: White Sox, Pirates, Padres
Analysis: The industry was shocked when he got a three-year, $14 million deal in 2010, but Affeldt proved his worth. As a lefty reliever who can get righties out he will be in demand, and he should get a raise in terms of annual average value.
SIGNED: Giants — 3 years, $18 million
Analysis: His off-field issues, poor defense and low OBP will hinder his market, but his postseason success will give him a bit of a boost.
BEST FITS: Indians, Mariners, Astros
Analysis: Like most starting pitchers, Guthrie was relieved when he was traded at midseason from the Rockies to the Royals. At Coors Field he had a terrible 6.35 ERA in 15 starts, but he turned it around with Kansas City, posting a 3.16 ERA in 14 starts, and could be a decent low-cost alternative to Kyle Lohse and Anibal Sanchez.
BEST FITS: Royals, Blue Jays
Analysis: Scutaro has found a home with the Giants and had the quote of the year during their World Series parade when he said, “I want 15 years, three thousand-million dollars, how do you like me now?” It certainly gave everyone a good laugh. I do think he’ll be able to get a two-year deal from the Giants.
BEST FIT: Giants
Analysis: Berkman has been contemplating retirement and the Cardinals have made it clear they are turning the page. However, Astros GM Jeff Luhnow has expressed interest in having Berkman finish his career with Houston, which could be a possibility now that the Astros have moved to the AL and could use him as a part-time DH.
BEST FIT: Astros
Analysis: Adams underwent surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome Oct. 18. He will be out at least three months but should be ready by spring training. Adams had a 3.27 ERA in 52.1 innings pitched for the Rangers this past season and is still one of the best setup relievers in the league. He will do well in free agency with hopes of returning to the Rangers.
BEST FITS: Rangers, Padres, Red Sox
Analysis: Baker is a solid back-of-the-rotation starter who can win in double digits while providing 180 innings pitched. There will be significant interest due to the shortage of quality starters in this class, and the Twins are hoping they can bring him back in the $5 million range like Chris Capuano got from the Dodgers last year.
SIGNED: Cubs — 1 year, $5.5 million
Analysis: Rodriguez has settled his case against his former agent, Paul Kinzer of Wasserman; a settlement that landed Rodriguez $2 million. He has since been charged with domestic abuse and battery. He’s been happy with the Brewers, and if he can clear up his legal problems might return for another season. He appeared in a career-high 78 games last year.
BEST FITS: Brewers
Analysis: Soria could be the best bargain of this free-agent class. The Royals declined their option on Soria, making him a free agent as he recovers from Tommy John surgery. However, when he comes back, someone is going to have an impact closer and is going to be able to sign him to a low base salary contract that’s loaded with incentives and awards related to games finished and Rolaids Relief Man of the Year.
BEST FITS: Nationals, Yankees, Brewers, Red Sox
Analysis: Correia has won 10-12 games in each of the past four seasons, including going 24-22 with the below-.500 Pirates. He’s a back-of-the-rotation starter who can be expected to give up four runs with a WHIP of 1.3 in about 26 starts a year.
BEST FITS: Pirates, Padres
Analysis: The White Sox were hoping that the left-handed starter would help them down the stretch to overtake the Tigers, but it didn’t work out as he continued his trend over the past couple of years of ERAs rising over 5.00 and WHIPs of more than 1.4. He could benefit from pitching in a bigger park and changing leagues.
BEST FITS: Twins, Indians, Pirates
Analysis: Blanton always is reliable, giving his clubs at least 175 innings with a chance to win 10 games if the bullpen and run support is there. He’s a back-of-the-rotation starter for a second-division club at this point in his career.
BEST FITS: Royals, Indians, Pirates
Analysis: Valverde saved 49 games in 49 opportunities in 2011 and helped the Tigers reach the ALCS. However, this past season, everything fell apart and not only did he lose the closer’s job for the Tigers, they were reluctant to use him at all when they reached the World Series. There is no one in this free-agent market whose value dropped more than Valverde’s did. However, someone will take a chance on him if the MRIs on his shoulder and elbow are clean.
BEST FITS: Marlins, Twins
Analysis: One of the game’s nicest and classiest players, Pena hit below .200 for the second time in three years while still belting 19 home runs and driving in 61 runs, and still played an above-average first base. However, at 34 he’s finally lost an everyday job at first base and will now have to embrace a backup role if he wants to stay in the game.
BEST FITS: Indians, Rays
Analysis: Burnett is one of the few left-handed relievers in this market coming off a big year, pitching in 70 games and completing the season with an impressive 2.38 ERA and 1.23 WHIP. Most contending teams have already called his representatives with interest.
BEST FITS: Angels, Yankees, Rangers, Red Sox
Analysis: Uehara had a nice bounce-back year for the Rangers after 2011’s struggles. In 2012, he pitched in 37 games, finishing with a 1.75 ERA and a 0.63 WHIP. The Rangers would love to have him back but, like Jason Grilli and Joel Peralta, it will probably take time to figure out if the older setup reliever market will get a nice bump in pay.
BEST FITS: Rangers, Red Sox, Angels
Analysis: Ichiro will be playing at age 39 in 2013, and although he did well in his short stay with the Yankees, posting a .322/.340/.454 slash line, there is no doubt that he’s nearing the end of his special career.
SIGNED: Giants, Dodgers
Analysis: After 14 seasons of more than 80 RBIs, he finally fell below that level this season when he hit just nine home runs with 77 RBIs between the Astros and Marlins. His career is coming to an end but he still has enough for one more season if the Marlins want him back to play first base or for an AL team that is looking for a DH.
BEST FIT: Marlins
P-Town Brave ©
November 15th, 20125:31 pm
I wouldn’t have an issue with that….
In fact, it would make much more sense if they were going after Hammy to then either let McCann go after 2012 or deal one of the other LH hitters to become more balanced….
Leads me still to believing they’d go after a RH hitting CF if they bring in Hammy and then a RH catcher if they decide to let Mac walk…
Not only has Wren talked extensively about long term options BUT he has also discussed at length about making the lineup more balanced….so if he really truly is considering Hammy, then he’s obviously had to consider moving one of the LH pieces….OR he’s looking forward to also needing to replace Mac’s production
old man,give scoots credit for that one but it would take much more than one prospect.
Murph,Braves sign Hamilton and I will buy your 4yr old a Christmas present.
Just not the gun she asked for, ok? She does not need a high-powered hunting rifle.
Just maybe with Theo they may now
November 15th, 20125:32 pm
just strapping on the armor early, gotta be ready. Shaun can attack without warning
Bay Area Steve
November 15th, 20125:33 pm
“a certain faction is in full battle mode”
And complaining that it’s tiresome.
November 15th, 20125:35 pm
somebodys gotta take care of all the wild hogs out there Murph. who better than evil incarnate?
November 15th, 20125:38 pm
I think Angel Pagan has a chance to become the Aaron Rowand of this free-agent class with someone overpaying beyond his abilities because of his successful 2012.
Bingo! Stay far far away…
I think the Braves would be fine having Hamilton, Mac, Hey, and Free all on the team… even as we head into next 2-3 years. Mac and Hamilton handle their own, Jason and Freddie will get better. I would be ecstatic if we added another RH bat in addition, like Olt or someone young. Maybe if Hamilton’s price drops into the teens we could get him and Justin Upton. Mac is more likely gone next year anyway… so, that’ll free up room, and CBet is a RH.
November 15th, 20125:39 pm
You would be wise to refer to her as a pretty little flower, not evil incarnate. When she figures out what that means… I won’t be able to protect you.
Shaun – For God’s sake – if you don’t like it and think it’s all a conspiracy to put down stats people then why don’t you get a freaking job as a baseball writer and vote however you wan?. Or maybe you could get up a petition to have Selig force the BBWA to work it all out as you prescribe.
All we’ve heard from you for years – each and every freaking year at this time – is how everyone except you doesn’t have a clue how to vote. Doesn’t matter if it’s Howard hitting 50+ HR, Pujols taking over the world offensively or Miguel Cabrera winning the Triple Crown. You’re just not going to be happy unless you make the decision – being as obnoxious as you could conceivably be while you dictate the results.
November 15th, 20125:40 pm
You just may get your opportunity to buy your summer beach house.
Because of the damage inflicted by the hurricane here in NJ, the flood insurance premiums, already sky high, will go thru the stratosphere, causing many to sell at greatly reduced prices.
Strike while the iron is hot my friend
November 15th, 20125:41 pm
point taken Murph about the pretty lil flower….
November 15th, 20125:42 pm
“here in NJ”
I thought the four-year-old couldn’t leave the state?
November 15th, 20125:44 pm
Is it an OMEN that the four year old is gathering her powers as Dec 21 looms ahead?
November 15th, 20125:47 pm
The 4 year old has never been convicted, BAS. Would you take the stand against her, knowing how soon she’ll be out? Yeah, me neither.
Trader Jack, my inlaws were just in town and they are actually talking about doing just that. They’ve always joked about buying the house we rent every summer, but the property manager basically told them that if they want it, it’s theirs, and for way less than the asking price (it’s been for sale for 2+ years now).
November 15th, 20125:48 pm
I’d worry if she suddenly takes an interest in obsidian weaponry.
isn’t that reverse carpetbagging Murph?
And asks for a jaguar skin dress for Christmas.
November 15th, 20125:52 pm
ain’t gonna be no Christmas this year…..
Go for it Murph – would love to have you as a neighbor, so long as the 4 year old doesn’t pull a Glock forcing me to take her to Avalon Freeze
its the MVP bot the best player, thays why they have a POY award too. he wasn’t even valuable enough to get them to the playoffs.
Trout’s team won more games than Cabrera’s team. So if a team’s record is your indication, you’re argument fails. Also, even if Trout or Cabrera played on the Astros, their value wouldn’t change. It takes an entire team to win enough to make the playoffs. The MVP is obviously an individual award.
If he was MVP he woulda buckled up and hunkered down and dragged them there with true grit
Trout actually did all this throughout the 2012 season. The problem is that his teammates weren’t good enough to push them in to one of the wild card spots or a division title and Anaheim is on the west coast instead of the central U.S., so the Angels didn’t get to coast in to the playoffs with something like the 7th-best record in the league.
November 15th, 20125:55 pm
Lew, plenty of people realize the mistakes the writers have made and continue to make, besides me. I’m making it about the arguments and about the information and about the data. Some of you folks are making this about me.
excuses , excuses Shaun. You man just wasn’t gritty enough to get ‘er done in the end……
November 15th, 20125:57 pm
So long as Hoy’s is open then everyone is safe. Heaven help you all if Hoy’s is closed, though. When she doesn’t get her skittles then bad things happen.
And no, skittles from the WaWa are not the same as skittles from Hoy’s.
I don’t really care, I love Trout, but it will kinda surprise me if the first triple crown winner in 50 (whatever) years does not win it.
November 15th, 20125:58 pm
Man, you know Shaun is worked up when he’s posting after 5:00. You can normally set your watch by the redundant ranting…
November 15th, 20126:00 pm
nolie in full battle armor – LOL
nolie, if one puts aside their biases and is rational, it’s pretty clear who did more to “get ‘er done” throughout the 2012 season. The problem is Cabrera won the Triple Crown, so it all starts there with the assumption that the Triple Crown made him more valuable, and then some work backwards from there, instead of actually curiously looking for the answer to the question of who was more valuable, without any preconceptions of who deserves the award.
If you go in to the question of who is more valuable, putting aside biases, putting aside the aura of the Triple Crown and team making the playoffs, the answer is pretty obviously Trout. But the award is often and has often been, throughout its history, about giving it to the player with the aura, the most hype, etc. and not the most valuable.
November 15th, 20126:01 pm
mommy let him stay up late today for the vote BAS
yeah winning the Triple Crown is such “trouble”
November 15th, 20126:02 pm
Freeman, Teheran, EOF, Cunningham
Would Marlins think about that?
250 points in difference in OPS to end the season… that’s something. A true MVP woulda stepped up. Cabrera did. Trout didn’t.
Also from the interview (tweeted by Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post), Samson said that Ricky Nolasco won’t be traded this winter and will be a Marlin in 2013.
November 15th, 20126:03 pm
I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in person. Perhaps once in Tijuana as a kid, and lots of times in movies, but Shaun reminds me of the guy on the corner screaming bible verses, and ‘The End is Near,’ while hundreds of people casually stroll by ignoring him.
November 15th, 20126:04 pm
Whether you put stock in the measurable things, intangibles, etc., you should attempt to determine which player was most valuable. No one really bothers with this.
How it usually works is a player gets some hype and seems like the most valuable and therefore he gets the award, and anyone who supports this player’s case (usually near a majority of writers and fans), works backwards to try to find any data or information or reason to support this guy.
What writers should be doing is actually trying to determine which player actually is the most valuable, without coming in to it with any preconceptions about who that player is based on hype and aura, etc.
Trust me, I’ll be thinking about the drink I’ll be having tonight in Shaun’s honor when Miggy wins
Have a good one all!
November 15th, 20126:05 pm
November 15th, 20126:06 pm
what time to they announce this thing?
November 15th, 20126:07 pm
And Shaun wonders why he has problems influencing people
oh are you one too Mixxo? glad you admitted it. come on in, but try not to ruin everything being you….
FOX Sports: MLB @MLBONFOX
The fans have spoken. 71.8% of our responders think the AL MVP should go to Miguel Cabrera.
It’s gonna be fun to see Shaun blabber all over himself
November 15th, 20126:08 pm
Between now and 7:00
November 15th, 20126:09 pm
Shaun will still believe that his is the only right vote no matter how onesided it might be
TheOnlyBravesFan, all I care about is what was the difference in value throughout the 2012 season. It is the most valuable player award, after all. Give me something that tells me which player was most valuable in 2012. “250 points in difference in OPS to end the season” maybe gives us some extremely small piece of which player was more valuable in 2012. What about entire offensive, defensive, baserunning, any other contributions throughout the entire 2012 season? And, again, try not to come in to that question with this preconceived idea of who should be the winner. Leave your biases at the door and try to answer the damn question. Don’t take the lazy way out of Miggy was better in September, he won the Triple Crown and his team made the playoffs. Build a case for the player’s value in 2012 compared to every other players’ value. You think most of the writers actually want to do that much research?
If I’m Wren, I’m gonna at least see what gets Miami’s attention on Stanton. If I could just pick one guy who’s name was not Trout, regardless of cost, it might be Stanton.
November 15th, 20126:12 pm
I’m sure every GM in MLB will question the Fish about it, most prolly already have. There are quotes from them saying he is not available, but who can believe such scum anyway?
nolie, have you seen the cases for Trout all over the internet? The smartest folks among us baseball writers, fans, etc. thing Trout is the MVP. If you are making this about me, that’s your problem. Answer all the reasonable arguments for Trout that are nearly irrefutable.
The fans have spoken. 71.8% of our responders think the AL MVP should go to Miguel Cabrera.
Everyone knows correct equals consensus. Our country’s history has proven that the majority’s views are always correct.
November 15th, 20126:14 pm
Once again, have to say that I am quite happy with Liberty Media’s ownership of the Braves. They may not be jacking payroll up to $150 million, but at least they allow the front office people to do what they do.
RC — Why don’t our corprate stewards do both. The money may or may not be there to go 150 mil — but they are not going hungry owning this team. Why not $125 mil. In time they will have to budge up that 90 million just to stay middle of the pack. The revenue is growing and growing in the game.
A little interest & positive involvement from the parent company would not hurt.
LM is a mediocre ownership group — Not Jeffery Loria or John Moores by a long shot but there are ownership groups that are more driven to please Joe Fan.
But if you are satisfied with being okay with an okay payroll, than LM is fine for you, that is your choice.
The smartest folks among us baseball writers, fans, etc. thing Trout is the MVP.
bulloney, there are plenty of smart folks who do not agree with you and are not slaves to sabergeekiness Shaun. Interest in and proficiency with stats is not a definition of intelligence
November 15th, 20126:16 pm
but if you are satisfied with being okay with an okay payroll, than LM is fine for you, that is your choice….Disgusted
what difference does it make if you are or aren’t? Not gonna change anything either way.
November 15th, 20126:17 pm
As for the Trout/Cabrara thing — the edge goes to Cabrara in that his team did get to the WS.
The Triple Crown still counts for something, but winning is what gives me the definitive edge over Trout.
I will not debate the value of Trout but the Angels did not win anything — they could have missed the playoffs with or without Trout.
Do the Tigers go on their late run without Miggy?????
Seriously, neither you, I, or anyone else on this blog have any say in the voting. So why do you feel the way you do?
November 15th, 20126:20 pm
Trout only had 1 really really great month (OPS over 1.000) in July. Only slugged over .600 once (in July). Miggy had an OPS over 1.000 for 3 out of 6 months, came close in another, slugged over .600 for 4 months. He got better the last 3 months, really maxed it out to end the season. Trout slowed down.
Sure, if you want to know who had the biggest month this year, it’s Trout. He had an insane July. Other than that, he wasn’t as good as a hitter, or better than, Cabrera. And his defense doesn’t make up for it.
November 15th, 20126:21 pm
Teddy Cahill @tedcahill
Kimbrel gets one second place vote and finishes eighth in NL MVP voting. Medlen, Bourn, Chipper, Prado and Heyward got votes as well.
November 15th, 20126:22 pm
No suspense there with South Georgia’s Posey taking NL MVP.
Now, the one that everybody’s been waiting for. Gonna be outrage expressed either way, Trout or Cabrera.
I’d vote Cabrera by a nose over Trout, because of their September performances. Cabrera was most valuable, to me, because he put his team on his back during the throes of the pennant race.
November 15th, 20126:23 pm
Do the Tigers go on their late run without Miggy???
Probably not, though Fielder did pretty well. But do the Angels stay at home without Trout? Oh wait, they did… Oops
There’s more to baseball than just cold-hard stats, Shaun. I love them as much as the next guy, but the effect that Cabrera had on that lineup (as Ripken said, as quoted by raleigh) is very important as well
Look, Trout already won RoY. Running away with it. That’s his recognition for a great season.
Cabrera also had a great season, and the voters who already awarded the RoY to Trout will give the MVP to Cabrera as a tip o’ the cap for what he’s done.
It may not be right, but that’s the way it is. The voters are human, and humans have this deeply rooted need to try and be fair to all the players… it comes from the little league days when even the kid in the wheel chair got to play an inning every game.
Voters will see giving the award to Cabrera as the fair thing to do.
November 15th, 20126:24 pm
POSEY!!!! Way to go, my man. Might Seminole.
Hey, if Trout wins it I won;t even make a fuss out of it — its the Clubhouse Confidentiall type of people who want to make a big deal out of it.
Both are very very deserving candidates.
Nolie — For me, I cannot accept that nothing is going to change resiganative attitude. That is for me, no one else.
I know I cannot change anything about any MLB team but I will go down with a clean verbal fight showing my dissatisfaction if I do not like something.
I look forward to the day that LM sells out — hope I live long enough to see it. And the day the Braves become one of the players in the game they were in the 90’s with respect to the rest of the league.
World Series baseball — we used to have it. Can still get it. When, do not know.
November 15th, 20126:26 pm
DOB bringing the wisdom.
BREAKING: Buster Posey takes home the NL MVP award. Posey becomes the 1st catcher to win NL MVP since Johnny Bench of the 1972 Reds.
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick
Posey MVP award is amazing when you think about how gruesome that ankle injury was. Great perseverance. #sfgiants
Yeah Shaun – Every year we make it all about you. It’s always all about you. Because we just hate statistics and all they stand for.
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick
Hunter Pence, Chipper Jones, Angel Pagan and Miguel Montero each got 1 point for a 10th place vote.
I did not say it might not change, I said it isn’t gonna change because some of us are unhappy about it
November 15th, 20126:27 pm
You’re spot on. May not be right, but Trout has many more years ahead of him to win an MVP.
I thought Brian Kenney was going to have a heart attack defending Trout.
November 15th, 20126:28 pm
Kimbrel 8th in NL MVP balloting, got a 2nd-place vote, 3 fifth-place votes, 5 sixth-place, and some others.
Bourn named on three ballots and finished 18th, Medlen and Prado tied with two others for 20th. Heyward also got votes on two ballots (10 spots on each ballot), and Chipper got one 10th-place votes.
That’s a good outlook and point, but in my opinion, Cabrera wins the award hands down regardless. Trout was amazing this year, but Cabrera carried his team when they needed him, he did something historic and all around had the better year between the two in my opinion.
November 15th, 20126:30 pm
Shaun is gone, mommy musta caught him…..
And got more votes than any starting pitcher. RT @askamfer: @keithlaw Craig Kimbrel got a second place vote?
November 15th, 20126:33 pm
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
#BlueJays-#Marlins deal likely not finalized until Fri. or Sat. Reyes was in Dubai. Returning tonight. Needs to fly to Florida for physical.
Posey is youngest MVP winner since Sandberg in 84
What an accomplishment for Posey! To come back from that injury and perform at the level he did is amazing. True grit and determination from a Georgia native, we should all be proud for him.
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