9:32 pm November 12, 2012, by David O'Brien
November 13th, 20128:47 pm
Ross at 8M per and giving up no prospects is better than Willingham at 7M plus giving up prospects
November 13th, 20128:48 pm
I would have no problem paying Cody Ross 6 + 7.5 + 8.5 to hit mostly against lefties…opld man
you know how few at bats a team gets against lefties right? no way they are paying a guy that kinda money to play less than half the time when they would not pay Ross 3 mil. You need to get real about the way teams do business. If they get Ross it will not be to platoon
How about our Braves, got any other possible trade scenarios that fill our needs? Cause Josh Willingham and Denard Span talk is getting old. lol
November 13th, 20128:49 pm
November 13th, 20128:50 pm
Ross is nowhere near as good a hitter as Willingham, it ain’t even close
Last year people were crying FW didn’t sign Cody Ross, now he is an idiot if he does sign him.
Who was crying that Wren didn’t sign Cody Ross last year? Not many.
November 13th, 20128:52 pm
That depends, are we actually focused on winning more baseball games in 2013 or having a better farm system?
Last year Ross signed for 3mil, worth it at that price.
November 13th, 20128:53 pm
Wren would really be rolling the dice if he signs Cody Ross to be the everyday LFer. He’d probably hit 15 homers with a 320 OBP….. I don’t see what’s so good about him if your viewing him as a everyday player… To me he’s a good 4th OFer who can play all the OF spots and should play vs LHP.
November 13th, 20128:55 pm
good point CB
November 13th, 20128:56 pm
C Ross turn down Wren last year to sign with Red Sox…to hell with CR he can return to the little park in Boston.
November 13th, 20128:59 pm
I don’t think I’d be to happy with Ross as the starting LFer at $8M/year. I agree he’d be a good complimentary piece though.
he had an opportunity with payroll flexibility to make some strong acquisitions – me
Then I suppose it is his misfortune to have all this flexibility with an exceedingly awful free agent class. I can see but one postion player who justifies a large contract this off-season and the team has already ruled him out by virtue of expense. That leaves nothing but undesirables remaining and a bucket of cash. It is inevitable that Wren will pour that cash upon an undeserving player, The new CBA was only a factor in when Wren would make the deal, not if. – TenneseePaul
Fair point, but I unfortunately I will just say to Wren and co. – gonna have to suck it up and get creative. No excuse for locking in mediocre players to multi-year contracts if that is what ends up happening with Ross. It’d be a big fail on Wren if he were to go this route and then bring in a player like Span for CF – or worse, resign Michael Bourn for a ridiculous contract.
Isn’t that bird?
FWIW, despite their low salaries, I absolutely believe Morrison and Stanton are in play for the right offer. This team throws under Houston now. Since it’s not built to win, they’re just trade chips anyway. If they can bring in three or four stud prospects and more warm bodies for those guys, logic dictates that they do so. In a way, this is the perfect time while they are being totally honest about their business model. Baseball is a MacGuffin for the Florida Marlins.
November 13th, 20129:00 pm
Ross was a real solid value at one year, $3 million. But he won’t be getting that now.
November 13th, 20129:01 pm
Before the game even begins, I just want to tell you that I fully expect Duke to win tonight’s match-up. (It pains me to have to say that, but it’s reality.) This early in the season, I see Duke’s experience being a big advantage against my Cats.
November 13th, 20129:02 pm
Wren most likely offered a 2 year 4 million deal last offseason. Cody knew if he had a good 2012 with more playing time he could get another crack at a better contract. So he chose the Redsox’s 1 year deal. He benefited from playing in Fenway as well.
November 13th, 20129:03 pm
I think Morrison could be had in a trade even if they weren’t selling. His value is way down.
We’ll see on Stanton – they have four years of control for him – 2013-2016. He will be traded at some point I’m sure, just do not believe it will be this winter.
November 13th, 20129:04 pm
I am sure the marlins are getting all sorts of calls for Stanton now. I would hope would do the same. Teheran, Ahmed, Gilmartin for Stanton. Or go Minor and Ahmed with adding in Delgado or Teheran if needed.
Never will happen but a Stanton, Span, Heyward OF would be huge for the Braves for years
November 13th, 20129:06 pm
90 days til pitchers and catchers report. seems just like yesterday they were playing
If want to assemble the dream outfield, Fowler is who we should be targeting instead of Span since he’s tight with Stanton.
Cody Ross is .090 OPS points better than Willingham.
Nolie, you are making my point. I know teams TRADITIONALLY think they should only pay a position player a certain amount as a platoon. Especially someone who might only start 35% of the games. But they pay pitchers 20M a year, and they only start 20% of the games.
My point is that if the combined players give you price and performance, what do we care about which guy is paid more versus the other? So I’m suggesting we ought to reject the conventional wisdom.
A successful platoon would be better than just Cody or just Josh. And we keep all of pitching and prospects, as opposed to a Willingham deal.
November 13th, 20129:07 pm
VJ is still at work and I am watching..not basketball He’ll be here soon
November 13th, 20129:08 pm
Again, if Stanton was available – we would be behind many teams who have a better system. Stanton makes no money and every team in baseball would want him.
November 13th, 20129:10 pm
Exactly why would we want to sign Logan Morrison?
November 13th, 20129:11 pm
Think about St. Louis – Oscar Tavarez, Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal….Arizona – Matt Davidson, Tyler Skaggs, Trevor Bauer…..etc.
Lots of teams with the ability to get a better deal for Miami.
I should say trade for Logan Morrison.
November 13th, 20129:12 pm
The Marlins should have a bird nickname. So, when you hear “cheap….cheap….cheap..” you know people are talking about Florida baseball.
November 13th, 20129:13 pm
I suspect you are being too gloomy in that prediction. Yes, there would be a bidding war. What the Braves can offer that few other teams could match is MLB-ready starters. For Stanton, Atlanta may be willing to place Teheran and Delgado in the mix plus two or three other pieces. Florida has gaping holes to fill in their rotation. Guys they can slot in immediately work the same as the Mike Dunn/Omar Infante deal a couple of years ago. Plus, if either of those players or both turn out, they can repeat the process down the line by trading them for more prospects. There is a recursive aspect to their business model.
Rock Chalk is getting rocked!
November 13th, 20129:15 pm
J Hawks just lost.
Last offseason all Wren did was sign Livan Hernandez and Chad Durbin, and resign Jack Wilson. Spent a total of like 2.5 million. I believe. But of course he had no flexibility and failed to dump Jurrjens for whatever he could have gotten.
This offseason we have money to spend, but not alot of attractive options.. Efrim is right about Wren getting creative, something important that Wren can do in the meantime is lock up Prado and Heyward.
Backup Outfielder (Possibly Reed Johnson)
Starting Centerfielder who can lead off
Starting Leftfielder who’s RH with power
Maybe a arm for the pen.
I still see that changing to some kind of combination of Prado/Francisco and another player for 3B/LF and I really think Denard Span will be a Brave cause it just makes too much sense. After seeing David Ross leave, I would bet that Jose Constanza or even Jordan Schafer find thereself on the 25 man roster as a backup outfielder. Evan Gattis could be a catching option for us then switching to part time LFer if he’s hitting enough. But I really hope the team needs get filled the right way with premium players as Wren said. I’m not gonna let that comment go..
November 13th, 20129:16 pm
Would be nice to trade draft picks… give the Fish our first 3-4 heck even 10 picks, Teheran, Cunningham, and Spruill.
Course, other teams could probably beat that too.
Gone viral – if we have Stanton in LF and Heyward in RF, I am more than OK with substituting Fowler for Span
November 13th, 20129:18 pm
I suspect you are being too gloomy in that prediction. Yes, there would be a bidding war. What the Braves can offer that few other teams could match is MLB-ready starters.
I disagree. I think the Braves system is not a Top 10 system in the sport, and looking at it that way, the Marlins would be able to get quite a bit more from other teams. Arizona, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Texas, etc. – and these teams can offer elite position player prospects which we can not. Miami would want some certainty from a position player prospect standpoint and we are not balanced in that regard.
November 13th, 20129:19 pm
I have watched Stanton play since he was in low A. That guy is a stud.
He is a special player who the braves should target. Imagine a 3-4-5 core of Heyward, Stanton, Freeman all locked up in extensions for years.
I dont know why amyone would want LoMo. Hes declined every year in the bigs…
So we could have had twice the catcher McCann for two years for half the money we are paying McCann for one year. Ross would never say it but he is not stupid and knows that he is a better player. This is why we need a new GM and president. It’s not the payroll, it’s that we rarely get our money’s worth. Get ready for 1994 without the strike to end the misery.
November 13th, 20129:20 pm
“Gone viral – if we have Stanton in LF and Heyward in RF, I am more than OK with substituting Fowler for Span”
Obviously, the odds of this are like 1 in 100 but that’s better odds than what just happened with Toronto. If the sucker at the poker table wants to keep giving away chips, I say let them.
November 13th, 20129:21 pm
Arizona – Tyler Skaggs, Trevor Bauer, Matt Davidson
Texas – Jurickson Profar, Martin Perez, Robbie Ross, Mike Olt
St. Louis – Oscar Tavares, Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal
Pittsburgh – Gerrit Cole, Jameson Taillon, Gregoriy Polanco, Alen Hansen
KC – Wil Myers, Jake Odorizzi
I’d want a position player prospect moreso than a pitcher if I was dealing away Stanton.
Logan Morrison is a waste of talent due to being a head case. The marlins did him a ge disfavor by moving him to the OF from first base. They destroyed Chris Coughlin with his move to CF
November 13th, 20129:22 pm
Atl should call Miami about Stanton or Ruggiano!! Maybe see if Napoli would platoon with McCann or play first once in awhile.
November 13th, 20129:24 pm
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Scout says of OF Jake Marisnick, going from #BlueJays to #Marlins in blockbuster: “He has a long way to go with the bat. Complicated swing.”
Yeah, while I like Marisnick and Nicolino – the Jays didn’t give up their best two prospects in this deal – Travis D’arnaud and Aaron Sanchez. Didn’t even give up Anthony Gose.
November 13th, 20129:25 pm
Stanton in left, Bourjos in CF, Hey in right. Good defense out there, two mashers, a speedy guy, two RH bats.
If Ross is our premium player for LF, we may as well find some way to get Olt. Sure the youth isnt ideal, but thats definitely a better plan than Ross. Can Olt play CF? Olt, Hey, Stanton
“I disagree. I think the Braves system is not a Top 10 system in the sport, ”
You’ve made this clear. This conversation is not about who has the best farm system. It is about who has the best combination of quality starter prospects and enough surplus to deal them without negatively impacting the team. You have mentioned some good prospects. The key is how expendable they are. This is where the Braves stand above. We basically have to deal this off-season anyway.
November 13th, 20129:26 pm
Marlins have more position players in their system than pitchers short of their budding young ace. The jays just gave them multiple position players. E
November 13th, 20129:29 pm
So with the Marlins trading Josh Johnson to the Jays I guess their deconstruction is in full swing. What a pathetic sports franchise and owner.
November 13th, 20129:32 pm
It is about who has the best combination of quality starter prospects and enough surplus to deal them without negatively impacting the team. You have mentioned some good prospects. The key is how expendable they are. This is where the Braves stand above. We basically have to deal this off-season anyway.
I can’t fathom why most all organizations wouldn’t be in on Stanton given his age and contractual status. I disagree that the Braves stand above in this regard when all teams are looking to get better at all times.
It’s a strange viewpoint to have to think that the Braves would “stand above”. Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers all have a need in the outfield and all three have more resources to acquire Stanton.
November 13th, 20129:34 pm
The Fish already got some good pitching this year… Turner from DET, Eovaldi from LAA, another guy tonight… not so sure that Teheran or Delgado would appeal to them The already have some hard throwers who are projected to be frnt end SP, I believe. They’ve instead traded away their IF, C and CF before Ruggiano showed up.
I dont know their farm system well, but from what Ive seen that team do personnel wise in the last 2 years, Id bet they want position players who can actually hit.
We dont have that.
November 13th, 20129:35 pm
And why is it just about quality starter prospects? Why wouldn’t it be about a mix of starters and position player talent? We do not stand above many when factoring position player talent unless you are willing to unload Simmons – which I could buy as a piece that would excite the Marlins.
agree – I can’t believe the Jays got by without giving up more. They received 1st rate arms in J.Johnson and Buehrle. They received a premium SS and leadoff hitter in Reyes. They even got rid of their biggest headache in Yunel. The Jays took on money but did get talent. Shocked that Gose, D’Arnaud, OR Sanchez did not go in the trade. Surprised that 2 of them didn’t go.
November 13th, 20129:36 pm
Ross was solid we screwed up.Pay the man!
November 13th, 20129:37 pm
Braves are so weak at the SS position. Ahmed is not ready. Simmons will be special and has MLB experience.
If you could get Stanton and the SS prospect the Marlins just got from the Jays (no way I can spell that name) for Simmons and Delgado or Teheran, would you do it????
November 13th, 20129:38 pm
Teheran, Delgado and our three best prospects after those two would not be enough for Stanton, imo. If it was, other organizations must of been occupied with a Zombie Apocalypse.
marlins don’t trade to build team, they just trade away expensive salaries. who is left there that costs them lots of money who would be attractive to braves?
they aren’t trading stanton before 2015/16 (FA in 2017) or 1 year after they sign him to a 5/6 year contract.
November 13th, 20129:41 pm
Since we are all having fun – Braves send Simmons to the Marlins for Stanton. Marlins flip Simmons to the DBacks for Upton. They sign BJ to play CF thus uniting the Upton brothers. By adding the Uptons to the payroll the Marlins avoid getting in trouble for having too low a payroll. Braves deal pitching depth for CF and obtain Hardy from the Orioles (Clearing a way for Machado to move to SS).
McCann/Back up Catcher
November 13th, 20129:42 pm
karlravechespn karl ravech
you wonder if the red sox with all that payroll flexiblity and a need for ***** and startign pitching depth-missed the boat
Yeah, I’d be heated if I were Red Sox fans.
November 13th, 20129:53 pm
I suspect the likelihood of the Fish trading Stanton are slightly less than their odds of winning the World Series next year…
November 13th, 201210:04 pm
“And why is it just about quality starter prospects?”
Because that is where they are clearing out because that is where their financial outlay is. It is also their established business model. This is why Nolasco at $9 million is expected to go any day now.
You are focusing on your obsession with Atlanta’s farm system and thereby creating a blind spot in your logic. Presuming the Nolasco trade, at this moment, the Marlins have a starting rotation of Sanchez (who also may/will be dealt due to his final year of arbitration), Eovaldi, Jacob Turner and I guess Wade LeBlanc and Carlos Zambrano.
Tracking the way that the Marlins front office runs their system, they want more young arms so that they can play the lottery again in a few years with the best of Eovaldi, Turner and the other acquisitions they make. The Braves can lead with Teheran and Delgado (or Spruill or Gilmartin if the Marlins like them). Florida takes the two they want in this theoretical scenario and they suddenly have four interesting young arms to anchor their rotation. Then, they deal those guys away for magic beans in another few years. It’s what they do.
David from Athens, Alabama
November 13th, 201210:05 pm
JIM BOWDEN @JimBowdenESPNxm
One GM who inquired on Giancarlo Stanton was told that they were NOT going to trade him PERIOD
November 13th, 201210:07 pm
“Teheran, Delgado and our three best prospects after those two would not be enough for Stanton, imo. If it was, other organizations must of been occupied with a Zombie Apocalypse”
My respectful reply to this would be that I am surprised by the statement given the trade that is presumed to execute tonight. Nobody thinks they are getting enough here yet only the MLB office can stop it from happening. Dealing each part individually would have created an exponentially better return.Why would you expect competence on the next deal after this fiasco?
November 13th, 201210:08 pm
“One GM who inquired on Giancarlo Stanton was told that they were NOT going to trade him PERIOD”
Start posting embarrassing stuff about the organization on twitter, Stanton!
Hope we don’t get Span to replace Bourne. Don’t need another left-handed hitter . That was the Braves’ biggest weakness last year. Why can’t people see that? We lead the NL in seeing lefty pitchers against our hitters.
Give Heyward and Freeman (and McCann) a break, so they don’tt have to see lefty pitching half the time. Then you will see even better numbers from them.
November 13th, 201210:17 pm
Cody Ross is a 783 career OPS hitter and a 106 OPS+
Willingham is a career 845 OPS with a 125 OPS+
those numbers are not even in the same ballpark’
while hitting lefties is important we need someone who can hit both and that is not even close between those two
and Willinham just OPSed 920 against lefties last season
you are crazy for continuing to insist that they will pay Ross that much money to hit only against lefties. if they get him he will be the regular starter unless he completely tanks
Ross might be a more likely pick up though because I think the Twins will want more for Willingham than some think they will
November 13th, 201210:19 pm
I think Wren owes the fan base some big moves. Right now I am a touch on edge with what has gone down to date. I know, I know. It’s early. But still, we lose Ross our best defensive catcher while the Braves were sleeping thinking they could resign him easily after paying McCann’s option. Ah, wrong. Come on man. We got snookered early here. Congrats to Ross!
We are about to lose Bourn by his own admission so we have to land two big players in the outfield. Denard Span ain’t it. If we are gonna give up one of our starters it has to be for an impact player and name player. Justin Upton is the man for CF. Tori Hunter is the man for LF. Make it happen Wren and don’t get snookered!
Rock on….I don’t care who they get for catcher because I think Betancourt will make the roster out of ST. The Braves flat screwed up on the Ross deal and that’s a fact.
So we could have had twice the catcher McCann for two years for half the money we are paying McCann for one year…Larry 30
now that is one of the stupider things I have read here in quite a while,
November 13th, 201210:21 pm
” I think the Twins will want more for Willingham than some think they will”
At some point, I would like for Bowman or DOB to explain why the Braves have never been particularly interested in Willingham.
November 13th, 201210:23 pm
Start posting embarrassing stuff about the organization on twitter, Stanton
is that even possible? simple solution – just keep on saying Loria knows sh$t about arts and he’ll trade him away in a sec
November 13th, 201210:24 pm
Giancarlo has sent out a tweet about how pi$$ed off he is
November 13th, 201210:25 pm
I would wager a large chunk of change that the Marlins do not have any intention at this point in dealing Stanton. He is dirt cheap and the need a local hero to help this crap go down better with the fans down there, particularly the Hispanic ones who are a large part of that fan base
November 13th, 201210:39 pm
damn I killed the blog….
Hugo Z Hackenbush
November 13th, 201210:43 pm
Some would say it was a mercy killing…
All morons: Wright resigned with the Mutts, stop the bs were not getting him! Span looks like a good move, LF who knows? That’s FW problem to figure out! Keep Reed Johnson, he’s a gamer
November 13th, 201210:45 pm
no way Marlins want to trade Stanton, but Stanton may force their hand. Stanton will be soon due for big arbitration raises. Miami should go to Stanton to try to extend him, but I would bet he would decline the extension no matter what the dollar value is.
November 13th, 201210:47 pm
this year does suck plenty of money to get better
and not much talent to make it happen, might bebetter standing pat and letting the fluff get fluffed and fleeced and pick up the road kill thayts still kicking and hungry
i gaing lbs cause i be hungry
takes a little more than als to stop this old fool
Marlins’ highest-paid employee is now the peanut vendor…and even he’s not safe!
November 13th, 201210:50 pm
Stanton is not arb eligible until 2014
Stanton is two seasons away from even a modestly high salary. yeah he is likely a goner B4 2015
course no matter how strongly I state stuff, I am aware that you can never say never in baseball about anything. he might go even sooner
November 13th, 201210:53 pm
Said it before and I’ll say it again…Braves are under no obligation to match last years’ payroll. It could drop 10% or more as it did a few years ago.
November 13th, 201211:03 pm
if i were liberty media id check payroll at 45 million
and go with what we got thsat settles for the crumbs
then i could stick 300 million profit in my fat back pocket
November 13th, 201211:06 pm
November 13th, 2012
Gone viral – if we have Stanton in LF and Heyward in RF, I am more than OK with substituting Fowler for Span
If FW could get Stanton for LF,I would live with Schafer in CF.
November 13th, 201211:10 pm
through the minors there was a lot of debate in who had the better RF/1B prospect combo – the BRaves with Heyward and Freeman or the Marlins with Stanton and Morrison. No doubt who the weak link of those 4 is…….
November 13th, 201211:13 pm
only shot Stanton gets dealt is if he basically tells the front office and basically swears that he is not going to sign long term with the Marlins no matter what, he is too angry with their moves, etc. Basically Stanton would have to through a humongous fit if he is to be traded.
ya never know how they will turn out. When Wright came up there were a lot of folks -not just Braves fans- who thought that Marte was of very similar quality.
November 13th, 201211:15 pm
i’m liking this show VEGAS
After the last few years we want a real Superstar lets go after Hamilton
November 13th, 201211:17 pm
Justin Upton in LF is a deal Wren has to try to make. It will likely require a third team but Frank can sit down with JS who loved the three team mambo.
They can make it work provided the DBacks are serious about trading Upton.
CF is a pickle bc the Upton trade may be a bit painful. Doing two trades for the OF will be a challenge.
To mean I focus on getting Justin in here and then see what I can do about CF.
November 13th, 201211:18 pm
DOWN ON THE FARM
SS NICK AHMED [.275 BA] 0-4, 2 SO.
RHRP CORY RASMUS [7.53 ERA] 2.0 IP, 1 H, 1 HR, 1 R/ER, 1 BB, 4 SO.
LHRP RYAN BUCHTER [1.84 ERA] 1.0 IP, 2 H, zeros, 2 SO.
November 13th, 201211:19 pm
I like Vegas too. I also like Elementary, Last Resort, and Arrow
Major Crimes is still good but I don’t like it as much as I liked The Closer
World Without End miniseries 100 year later version of Pillars of the Earth was pretty good too I thought
Frosted Lucky Charms
November 13th, 201211:23 pm
So the Marlins/Jays just pull off a like a 10 player trade with big names involved and Wren can’t even get 1 player yet for 3 position needs with lots of $ and prospects to give up?…pathetic. Just keep sitting around waiting while nothing gets done. Oh wait the Braves are getting premium players like Schafer, C Ross and the game changing Denard Span and journeyman Willingham. Boy I can’t wait for those game changers…I’m ordering my season tickets tomorrow.
November 13th, 201211:25 pm
I wouldn’t bet against the Miami trading Stanton. They could get a great haul for him from the Braves or anybody else. I’d offer them Uggla and 3 prospects not named Teheran or 4 prospects without Uggla. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Does anybody know Meija’s status? If he is still in the organization he could be a useful throw-in.
I wouldn’t bet against Miami trading Stanton. They could get a great haul for him from the Braves or anybody else. I’d offer them Uggla and 3 prospects not named Teheran or 4 prospects without Uggla. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Does anybody know Meija’s status? If he is still in the organization he could be a useful throw-in.
November 13th, 201211:30 pm
I’m sure they would not want Uggla’s salary anyway
November 13th, 201211:32 pm
nolie – did Edward III or someone eventually deal with that little rat of a prelate in World Without End?
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