5:38 pm November 2, 2012, by David O'Brien
November 9th, 20121:20 pm
shaun, people kinda create their own categories to place players in.
DAP, that’s essentially the issue. We should try to be as objective as possible instead of creating our own categories and weighing the data how we want.
Some just seem to want to put extra weight on batting average and hitter strikeouts than is appropriate instead of really being curious as to which measures truly most relate to offensive production. A stat’s relationship to offensive production actually matters. We can just pick out stats because we think they matter or we want them to matter. We need to actually weigh more heavily the ones that actually have a relationship to offensive production. Baseball isn’t some sort of beauty contest where a high batting average and a low strikeout total earns you points.
Every baseball player comes with a risk. Your best athlete could blow out his knee in a slippery outfield.
Willingham has had back issues, but when in the lineup he rakes.
Short of a super block buster trade for someone thought to be untouchable, he is the best banger available.
P-Town Brave ©
November 9th, 20121:21 pm
My point is, don’t expect a guy looking down the barrel of his mid 30’s to all of a sudden start playing 130 games a year….
And if we have guys like him and Mac in the center of the order that play 110 games, this did not by any means make this a better team….
Christ…the idea is to keep the best players ON the field, not in the dugout or on the training table all the while we end up having to play Constanza or Schafer because of his back flare ups
November 9th, 20121:23 pm
Many bloggers were poo pooing Carlos Beltran last winter due to his balky knee. He had a few issues this past year, but put up some really good numbers for the Cards.
Enquiring Minds Want To Know
A serious questions for the statistically inclined:
Should an unusually high BABIP be evidence of an ability to hit the ball with authority (i.e. he’s not just hitting it, he’s centering the ball alot), or blind, dumb luck (i.e. the dinks are falling in and the dribblers are finding holes).
November 9th, 20121:24 pm
Comparing Beltran to Willingham is just plain comical Wayne…..cmon….you’re better than that!
I can’t understand the hate for Willingham. He costs $7 million a year on a short, two year commitment for a team that always is starving for payroll flexibility. There isn’t a better option for RH hitting LF.
November 9th, 20121:26 pm
Willingham isn’t that far off from Beltran. Beltran isn’t exactly Jason Heyward in RF either.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
“JHC what a line of crap, the guy is the 28th best hitter in baseball now and has hit in tough parks with no trouble at all. knock his defense, knosk his durability, but anybody who knocks him as a hitter is a damn fool.”
Look who’s talking
We should try to be as objective as possible instead of creating our own categories and weighing the data how we want.
November 9th, 20121:27 pm
That’s a fundamental problem with certain fans. It’s not about picking out stats you like. It’s about finding the ones that best relate to production.
People don’t look at stats like OPS, OPS+, wRC+, wOBA, etc. because of tastes. They pay attention to these stats because of their relationship to offensive production.
It’s not a matter of “you like those stats, I like these stats, let’s all sing Kumbaya.” How stats relate to production actually matters more than anyone’s personal taste in statistics.
DOB, well if it’s that much of a bargain, then they probably won’t be trading him.
Look Whos Talking
November 9th, 20121:29 pm
Yeah there is…..Justin Upton for one….
Difference is, they are quite a bit more unobtainable….
Oh, and to DOB’s commentary….125-130 games Josh only played 137 at his career best BEFORE all of the back issues….and that was when he was 27….
118 at best since….you can’t count his games at DH….the NL doesn’t have that defensive butcher and 1/2 day off buffer
The Lakers have fired Mike Brown as coach after a 1-4 start, his agent told USA Today.
Give me a break.
November 9th, 20121:30 pm
Gotten any further in the Attitude Era mode?
Don’t worry…..you can still talk to me and disregard other commentary
The crazies are out in bunches today.
November 9th, 20121:33 pm
Bullshyt. Beltran has missed more games due to injuries than Willingham has over the past 4 years. And if Willingham was not in the AL the past couple of years, somebody would have planted him in LF full time. He DH’d because they have a DH in the AL, not necessarily because he couldn’t play in the field.
Oh, and BTW….
Beltran could just look at his playoff stats and say SCOREBOARD to Willingham….
November 9th, 20121:37 pm
Willingham had an OPS+ of 132 the last 3 seasons. Beltran had an OPS+ of 135.
But even if you think that’s a significant difference, what DS1 was saying is that teams shouldn’t automatically avoid a player just because he’s had some injury issues in the past.
ncscoots, why should we try to weigh data based on how it relates to production instead of just looking at stats we like and how we want?
Because we learn nothing and it gets us nowhere if we are just picking stats based on something besides how stats relate to production. If the standard is not how a stat relates to production, what’s the point?
That smells of Kobe going to ownership over the GM. Kupchak was noted to be in support of Brown.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch IMHO.
November 9th, 20121:39 pm
and I was all for getting Beltran last winter. Just like I am all for getting Willingham this winter.
Bourn to decline offer….
There’s a surprise. I wish someone would hit him in the ass with the door on his way out.
If he’s like most athletes, what difference will the money make? It will be gone in the blink of an eye.
November 9th, 20121:43 pm
261 .362 .483 .845
.253 .343 .469 .813
you seriously think those numbers are comparable?
November 9th, 20121:44 pm
To be honest, I really don’t blame a guy for getting all he can. Take the Pujols example of last year. I don’t remember the numbers, but the difference between what the Cards were offering and what he got from the Angels was HUGE. We’re talking about 10’s of millions of dollars.
Now one might say, what is the difference between 200 million and 250 million. For most of us, if we were the main dog in town, we probably would have taken the 200 and kept being the BMOC.
But that much money? I really can’t say I blame them. You can do a lot of good with that kind of money.
So yes, I am sad when players leave my team for a better offer (read Tom Glavine) but deep down I understand.
Here it is: I know Shaun likes his stats but I’m more of a visual guy so when I see an unbiased opinion coming from a fan who watched the guy on the field every game I’m going to take his word for it. If anything he would be trying to play the guy up to get more for him.
November 8th, 2012
The pics of Juan do look better…. But I thought he wasn’t fat! Really hope he isn’t the answer at 3B. Needs better plate awareness. But 25 mil to spend on CF and pitching…. Oh my.
From the side blog…….
Longtime Twins fan here. I watch most of the Twins games and Josh Willingham is every bit as frustrating as Dan Uggla. It seems nobody strikes out with RISP more often than JW. He does hit a lot of home runs, but it’s usually when they’re way behind and the other team’s pitcher is grooving fastballs to get the game over with. You also need a late-inning defensive replacement for JW because he makes Matt Diaz look like a Gold Glover. On the other hand, Span is a great guy on and off the field, but he is an injury waiting to happen.
November 9th, 20121:45 pm
…..And yet, Beltran has been worth over 2 1/5 more WAR over the last 4 years in many less games….
And he’s been paid because of not only overall performance but because he’s been one of the BEST playoff hitters of all time….
Willingham’s claim to fame…..
He’s been sent away just before teams get good….maybe SO they can get good….
Traded by Washington to Oakland before 2011 season – Washington makes run to playoffs in 2012
Not re-signed by Oakland at end of 2011 season – Oakland makes playoffs and wins division in 2012
The funny thing is, Willingham actually was a Catcher…yes, a Catcher…..who has proven over time that the only useful thing he does is hit HR because he couldn’t catch, he couldn’t play 1b, and he’s a terrible OF….
Frankly, for everyone clamoring for BMac to find an AL team so he can DH…..those same should be suggesting Willingham stay in the AL to do the same….
Prayer and divine intervention couldn’t save us from the subtractions of Bourn and Prado in the OF and the addition of Willingham….I guess if we got Span in the deal as well, at least he knows already he has to cover 2/3 of the OF.
November 9th, 20121:47 pm
yeah like fans are so unbiased and reliable in their assessments. you have no idea in the world who that guy is or what his prejudices are. my guess is he is a batting average guy
Of course we should believe anything a poster says on a blog, all of us are geniusessss.
P-Town Brave ©, so it’s Willingham’s fault that his teammates weren’t as good as Beltran’s?
Oh, and again, Willingham was more productive and played more games than Chipper in recent seasons. Assuming Prado goes to third and everything else is somewhat equal, there is a good chance the Braves will be at least as good if not better offensively with Willingham than they were the past few seasons.
Show us the stats ranking Willingham vs league average when hitting with RISP. Don’t give me some fan’s biased view.
I thought Bourn K’s a lot with RISP, but was proven wrong. You just seem to remember the ones that end up hurting you.
November 9th, 20121:48 pm
I’ve played a little more and plan to really try it out this weekend. Really good game though and much better than last year. How bout you?
November 9th, 20121:49 pm
it would not be impossible but it would be fairly hard for me to care less about defense in LF with a cheap proven hitter out there
November 9th, 20121:51 pm
I don’t know about taking the word of just any fan who watched a guy on the field every game. There are Phillies fans who think Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins were more valuable than Chase Utley in the Phillies’ heyday. A fan who watches every game is not necessarily unbiased or skilled at knowing what he’s observing.
November 9th, 20121:52 pm
Not saying Beltran isn’t a better player than Willingham. It is CLEAR that he is. But I’m comparing him to the other choices. If we can’t get Upton, then Willingham might be the next best option.
Heck, for all we know Frank will swing a deal for Ryan Braun or Andrew McCutchen or David Wright; and Willingham will be a non issue.
the best defensive outfield in baseball by far did not get us into the prom
November 9th, 20121:53 pm
Chances are that Josh Willingham is going to play around 130 games — he has done that 5 yrs out of 7.
And he will give you between 55 to 60 Extra Base hits, maybe 25 HRS and 28 to 32 doubles. Not bad at all. With a good OPS. Not bad for 7 mil.
You have to give up something to get something.
And, with Reed Johnson around if we keep him, he can be used judiciously. An OF of Heyward, Span, Willingham and Johnson ready and able is A-OK. Not to mention that Prado can fill in there that is a DEEP OF.
Get those 2 from Minny and keep Ross and Reed around and we have a nice deep team.
Would like to keep Scott Baker.
I am through 3 rungs of the mode and up to The Great One chapter…..been amazing so far….just can’t get over the videos and the effort they put into it….
Takes me right back to when all of it happened.
November 9th, 20121:54 pm
I am an unbiased fan. I want Brent Lillibridge back, DAMMIT!
c’mon Frankie get sumthang done, we are dyin’ here….
November 9th, 20121:57 pm
I agree there….
I mean cmon…I’m not a complete idiot!
IF we could get him for Tommy Hanson OR the other option is to go w/ Constanza or Schafer in LF then hell yeah, I’d certainly go with him!
He’s not the worst player I’ve ever seen, just simple that IMO and given our current team construction, I just don’t feel he’s a great fit.
I kinda doubt we’d get both OF’ers from Minnesota. They would need to replace Willingham. But you never know how bad they are after starting pitching.
Who is Scott Baker? Do you mean Jeff Baker?
I am going to give Uggla the benefit of the doubt that he can return to his Marlin days.
He did take his walks — the guy still has the eye for the strike one. And he did hit in some tough luck in some stretches.
He showed signs late in the yr — hey we need him and he is going no where so I give him the benefit of the doubt this time.
He hustles and did not play a bad second — we got to get behind Dan.
DS1, I thought you were just saying, let’s not get carried away with Willingham’s injury history and automatically assume he’s not a very solid option, if a reasonable trade can be worked out.
Only those who have an agenda would think you were comparing Willingham to Beltran in other ways.
And the fact is that the difference between Willingham and Beltran isn’t as great, in those other ways, as those who aren’t objective about Willingham may think.
November 9th, 20121:58 pm
That is right DS-1, my bad, I mean Jeff Baker.
Scott Baker is the FA P from the Twins who missed last yr — we do not need him.
November 9th, 20121:59 pm
DS-1 — FW can sure try to kill two birds in one sttone by getting both if he can.
Its never easy, but hey, he will work on it.
November 9th, 20122:01 pm
Nobody’s saying your not a good baseball man; you are. I’m just a realist. I’d love to park a guy like Wright or Braun or Stanton into the 4 slot for 155 games a year. But short of that, AND not really being a good match with the D’backs for Upton; Willingham is about the best next choice out there. And he might end up (due to salary and control) being a better option than Upton.
We are all aware of Willingham’s warts. But if you don’t look at those cheap azz shoes (defense) he’s wearing, he looks pretty dapper in that Italian suit (Slugging)
November 9th, 20122:04 pm
I guess what I’m saying is I’d prefer Beltran to Willingham for his defense, although that has dropped off in the past 4-5 years. But they are pretty close otherwise. But Beltran is not availalbe, and Willingham might be.
That’s all I’m saying.
November 9th, 20122:05 pm
Beltran is also making twice as much money. I lusted after him last winter but the Braves were too cheap
Like Jocketty, Frank Wren of the Braves has had multiple GM jobs dating back to the 1990s. Over the years he has completed some shrewd signings (Billy Wagner) and some regrettable ones (Albert Belle). Wren has also noticed some diminishment of the quantity of star players in free agency.
“I think it’s due by and large to the strategies teams are taking of tying up their core young players,” he said. “I think we are seeing that where it’s a little tougher to fill some of your needs through that market.”
Yeah, man. Get moving and tie up your youngsters.
November 9th, 20122:06 pm
I’d like to see what Beltran’s raw numbers would be had he not run into a bussaw of injuries in 09 and 10
He’d be approaching 375 HRS now.
Still has had a darned great career, might be a tad short of HOF. I don’t know if he can last 4,5 more yrs. IF he can his numbers will be up there.
A fan who watches every game is not necessarily unbiased or skilled at knowing what he’s observing.
I am an unbiased, skilled observer who knows even more stats acronyms than Shaun. If I could afford the paycut, I’d be a baseball front office god.
November 9th, 20122:08 pm
November 9th, 20122:09 pm
Not sure I’m ready to call Beltran’s numbers good enough for HOF. 282/360/496
November 9th, 20122:10 pm
Albert was not even Wren’s choice, he was the owners choice. anybody who blames Wren for that is ignorant of which they speak
November 9th, 20122:12 pm
You got that right Efrim — Frankie better be thinking about tying up Jason and Freddie before long or else they will get paid elsewhere.
And we are not going to just go out and develop a couple of young hitters just like that so easily.
The names on the back of the jersey add up to the value and desirability as the logo on the front. Both are interdependent on each other.
The total package has to be marketed.
November 9th, 20122:14 pm
DS-1 — I do think he is short of HOF but if he were at 375 HRS and could be relied on being healthy for 4, 5 more yrs you are looking at 500 HRS, not sure how many RBI’s but prolly more than 1500, 1600 and he is a clean player.
I don’t think he will get there but that is cause of injuries
November 9th, 20122:16 pm
Teams are tying up their core, young position player talent. Not so much the pitchers. Which again, to me, puts an emphasis on drafting and developing hitters. And I don’t believe we can easily trade our pitching surplus for young, controllable position players.
You can do so for pitchers, I think – Pineda, Gonzalez, Cahill, Latos. You really don’t see deals like that for hitters, imo.
November 9th, 20122:18 pm
Frankie better be thinking about tying up Jason and Freddie before long or else they will get paid elsewhere.
So far, there have been two main tipping points for those kinds of contracts: first year of arb and the last year (or two) prior to FA. So you could consider Heyward ripe for an offer of that type, Freeman probably not so much.
November 9th, 20122:23 pm
I see an unbiased opinion coming from a fan who watched the guy on the field every game I’m going to take his word for it.
how the heck is a twins fan unbiased about willingham? and the quote found by TOBF, who clearly spent time looking for absolutely anything -ve someone on the net said about the guy? do you think TOBF would ever quote from other “unbiased twins’ fans” who say anything good about the guy? like many twins fans who don’t want him traded at all? or their fansy that want to ensure their FO gets a sh**load in return for the guy, if they do trade him?
i just can’t understand why people here don’t understand willingham’s value. guess i’m done with this topic. serenity now…
November 9th, 20122:24 pm
I can certainly understand caution in signing pitchers for long term deals, due to their higher incidence of injury.
Sure would love to see Heyward and Prado ink’d for a 4-5 year deal this winter. Get Freeman next year and Simmons the year after.
They (Braves) just aren’t in a good position to be taking many chances and it shows.
Just sukks… more control lefties, here we come!
November 9th, 20122:25 pm
A five year deal for Heyward that gets the Braves those firs two years of free agency. It would still get him to 28 years old as a free agent. Braves will probably try to negotiate a third year club option with a buyout.
You said this”Willingham had an OPS+ of 132 the last 3 seasons. Beltran had an OPS+ of 135.”
My question to you is this, for OPS+ what is the level of significance difference?
Is 5 points considered statistically significant? Is 1 point?
I am not trying to fight, just ignorant on OPS+.
November 9th, 20122:27 pm
as would I Wayne
Bob Sakala of Paramus says he bought his Toyota Prius Hybrid in June to save gas. In the week since the storm, he powered his home — including lights, laptops and a television — on three quarters of a tank of gas. Sakala says he first read about the Prius’ use as a power source years ago on the internet.
After the storm, and the resulting power outage, he thought he’d give it a try. He ended up powering a few lights, his TV, laptop and modem with a 100 watt power inverter and a few heavy-duty extension cords he purchased at Home Depot. He later moved to a 300 watt inverter, which let him power more lights.
November 9th, 20122:28 pm
not much difference at all there flange
November 9th, 20122:29 pm
Just sukks… more control lefties, here we come!
As much as it’s best player available, I have a really, really hard time seeing them drafting more pitchers if they have two Top 40 picks. The lack of position player prospects who profile as potential regulars that can actually hit – is staggering. Simmons, Bethancourt, Lipka, Ahmed – all with major questions about their hit tool. Obviously Simmons isn’t a “prospect” – but it’s been Wren’s strategy to draft athletes first, hitters second. That works, if your development team can work magic. Hasn’t really happened so far – at least didn’t witht he 2009 crop, which I think we can finally say was a terrible draft aside from getting a solid, mid rotation guy in Minor. Mycal Jones, David Hale, Tom Berryhill – just a really poor draft with players that weren’t even usable in trades. At least we got Bourn with 2 pitchers from the 2008 draft.
November 9th, 20122:30 pm
That came from the AJC cricket…. it was from a fan who claims to have watched Willingham. If it was positive, I’d have posted it too. I like the guy, just not for Delgado or Teheran+. To say that he is worth a #1-2 pitcher but a 28 yr old wasn’t worth 2 #3s? Don’t get it.
them damn Prius always gotta be justifying owning such a gawd-awful ugly vehicle…..
November 9th, 20122:31 pm
if they get two picks I’m betting at least one is a pitcher, we need another good polished lefty real bad
November 9th, 20122:32 pm
November 9th, 2012
To be honest, I really don’t blame a guy for getting all he can.
I don’t either. I’m just tired of the guy after all of his whiffs, pouting faces and the huge blow away strike out in the 8th inning back on october 5th. I don’t want to pay the guy a fortune to continue to fade to nothing late in the year right on and on and on….
has it really been that long already? 35 days?
Anyone think 15 million a year for him for 5 yrs makes sense? I’m not instantly opposed to it, but I have my real doubts. I haven’t been able to keep up on here as well lately.
November 9th, 20122:33 pm
To say that he is worth a #1-2 pitcher
repeat after me, delgado’s ceiling is #3
and sorry, i don’t believe you would’ve posted if it was +ve
November 9th, 20122:34 pm
Bob Sakala of Paramus says he bought his Toyota Prius Hybrid in June to save gas. In the week since the storm, he powered his home — including lights, laptops and a television — on three quarters of a tank of gas.
That’s awesome… except, at the end of the day, he still drives a Prius, which makes him an a-hole.
Minor’s getting lonely?
Like I said, we’ll find out soon enough with the drafts. A lot of the 2010 high floor college guys are getting to Triple-A next year(Terdoslavich, Leonard, Cunningham, Gosselin), and the 2011 crop is getting to Double-A(Ahmed, La Stella). Be interesting to see how they do in 2013 as they are on the doorstep of the majors.
And I get that we shouldn’t always expect great things from all of our picks – but the Braves could of gone with younger HS hitters, with potentially more upside in both of those drafts and instead chose to go with college players.
There will always be someone with enough sense and creativity to make the most of a bad situation.
And there will be thousands of others who will just sit there and whine about it.
if he really goes that cheap Braves might be interested, the second half slump was not a regular yearly occurance
Of course. You’re always concerned with someone who’s had chronic back issues. But I think it’s well worth the risk for a player with that kind of power and production the past two seasons, and with that seriously club-friendly contract, and given that he played 145 games last year including 118 starts in the outfield
Maybe the climate had an effect? It’s cooler up there. I’m not sure he could play that many if he was with the Braves… averaged 109 starts in the field his last 4 years. He’d be about a 20HR, 65 RBI man. Good numbers for his contract, he’d be productive, I’m just worried about how much he’d actually play. Which is why I wouldn’t trade Teheran or Delgado+ for him.
November 9th, 20122:35 pm
I don’t want to pay the guy a fortune to continue to fade to nothing late in the year right on and on and on….
Check his career, phil. He’s had the one season where he faded in the second half. One. Just happened to be the one season you just watched.
November 9th, 20122:36 pm
phil calling someone else a whiner is priceless……..
November 9th, 20122:37 pm
Maybe the climate had an effect? It’s cooler up there. I’m not sure he could play that many if he was with the Braves
Are you nuts? The heat here will keep his back looser, not tighter.
November 9th, 20122:38 pm
if they are smart enough to keep Johnson they can give everybody a bit more rest this season
Anyone think 15 million a year for him for 5 yrs makes sense?
not for braves. but then, spending money on caviar doesn’t make sense for most of us while it is just something to toss to the dog for scoots
November 9th, 20122:40 pm
Here, boy! Got a treat for ya! Gooood dog!
while it is just something to toss to the dog for scoots…cricket
I shoulda been in his doghouse all them years instead of cabs….
November 9th, 20122:41 pm
phil, do you drive a Prius?
If so, just do the rest of us a favor and stay in the right hand lane, ok?
November 9th, 20122:42 pm
flange1, basically we can think of OPS+ like a percentage where 100 is 100 percent of average. So 130, for instance, is 30 percent above average. And 70 would be 30 percent below average.
So Willingham’s OPS was only about 3 percent worst than Beltran’s when adjusted for league and parks, is essentially how we would could say it.
Of course OPS+ doesn’t adjust for position and doesn’t account for baserunning or defense. A shortstop with an OPS+ of 100 is more valuable than a DH with an OPS+ of 100. And I think most would acknowledge that Beltran, even at his age and the wear and tear on his body, is probably a better defender and baserunner than Willingham.
November 9th, 20122:44 pm
On a less whimsical note, 5/$75MM is right on the edge for me, re Bourn. It’s probably too much, certainly in years, but I’m starting to feel as if there won’t be all that much relief from the other FA CF. So, if it’s going to be an overpay, regardless, I’d just as soon go with the guy who’s the better player.
All that means, of course, is that they might eschew the FA CF altogether.
November 9th, 20122:45 pm
a difference that small in about any kinda average is pretty much within the realm of coincidence, whether BA, OBP, OPS etc. prolly not statistically significant
Show us the stats ranking Willingham vs league average when hitting with RISP. Don’t give me some fan’s biased view.
League avg.RISP- .255/.339/.400/.739
w/ 2 outs- .234/.339/.371/.710
Willy RISP- .287/.424/.535/.959 (205 PAs, 8 HR, 73 RBI)
w/ 2 outs- .241/.412/.494/.905
Both Willy’s numbers in 2012 are better than his career numbers, but his career numbers aren’t shabby either. Still better than league avg. Get him if possible (and Upton/Pence aren’t available). Just don’t trade Teheran, Delgado, Minor.
November 9th, 20122:46 pm
November 9th, 20122:47 pm
Just don’t trade Teheran, Delgado, Minor.
ok, then..willingham for Meds it is
November 9th, 20122:49 pm
I shoulda been in his doghouse all them years instead of cabs
Well, my dog isn’t picky, thank goodness. The caviar doesn’t have to be Caspian Sea or anything. Even that cheap Scandinavian stuff is fine, if that’s what you got.
November 9th, 20122:52 pm
hey Scandinavian instead of Caspian Sea and ribeyes instead of filet mignon is Ok by me , at least some of the time
November 9th, 20122:53 pm
Oh yeah, me, too. But I grew up country, so it’s understandable.
November 9th, 20122:57 pm
“Both Willy’s numbers in 2012 are better than his career numbers, but his career numbers aren’t shabby either. Still better than league avg. Get him if possible (and Upton/Pence aren’t available). Just don’t trade Teheran, Delgado, Minor.”
@TOBF — I agree that we do not move Minor but as for Teheran & Delgado you have to give up something to get something. Minnesota is going to demand one of those two at least. That is for either one of the OF’s many Braves fans covet — Span or Willy.
November 9th, 20122:58 pm
So Shaun, is 3% considered statistically significant for OPS +? Is 5%? Is 10%
November 9th, 20123:01 pm
3% no, 5% a bit, 10% definitely
We talk baseball, other sports, music, movies, BBQ and whatever (except politics or religion)
Atlanta Braves RSS feed
Previous entries »
Send a feedback technical issue
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution