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5,183 comments Add your comment
Disgusted
November 9th, 2012
10:38 am
Torrii Hunter still has value — if they look at him he is not another Garrett Anderson.
Has value in both the real and advanced stats. He will help out but I see him staying in the A.L. where he is comfortable.
Only red flag on him is he is 37 comming to a new league for the first time.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 9th, 2012
10:38 am
but that ain’t gonna close the holes in that swing.
Or his poor strike zone awareness…..
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 9th, 2012
10:40 am
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
10:04 am
Murph, I don’t think Ahmed has that high of a ceiling. Safe floor of a utility player, I guess.
Unfortunately, it seems like the Braves whole minor league position player roster is looking like utility player types.
DAP
November 9th, 2012
10:42 am
old man Hanson, Maholm, Reed Johnson, plus mid-prospect
for
Willingham and Span
Thoughts?
braves cant trade johnson, because he is a free agent. even if they could this package is not enough for those two guys.
George_George
November 9th, 2012
10:43 am
Good morning all
The people in Southeastern NC do not like baseball like the folks in weastern NC do. We have a minor league team in ASHSVILLE.
TennesseePaul
November 9th, 2012
10:44 am
not a 32 year old #4 starter, if that’s what the executive meant.
I didn’t get that meaning from the rumor. Just that the quality of pitching in return for Willingham is in the range of a 4th starter and not much higher because he’s a LF/DH with less than stellar defensive abilities.
That 4th starter could be any age.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
November 9th, 2012
10:45 am
@Disgusted
I take it that you won’t be attending any games in 2013 out of protest???
Murph
November 9th, 2012
10:47 am
it would be a miracle if the guy comes to ST as anything resembling an everyday hitter
Francisco as a starter in 2012:
149 AB
.262/.293/.497/.790
8 HR
11 2B
27 RBI
7 BB
49 K
Granted the plate discipline leaves a lot to be desired, but keep in mind he’s only 25 years old. He can, and should, improve.
I’m not saying he’s going to be a great hitter, but he could be an ok 3B in this league if given the opportunity to play every day.
Jeff R
November 9th, 2012
10:47 am
I like to Boo — I believe if you start your day off Booing someone it will add 7 yrs to you life. HA HA.
I’m dropping the vitamins and starting the booing tomorrow morning.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
10:48 am
Unfortunately, it seems like the Braves whole minor league position player roster is looking like utility player types.
Bethancourt, Salcedo and Peraza might have a chance to be more. Don’t see it as much in Ahmed, Cunningham, and La Stella.
TennesseePaul
November 9th, 2012
10:49 am
Unfortunately, it seems like the Braves whole minor league position player roster is looking like utility player types.
That’s what happens when you go heavy on low ceiling players for signability while also eschewing your high draft picks for aging veteran free agents.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
10:49 am
That 4th starter could be any age.
Sean Gilmartin for Josh Willingham it is!
George_George
November 9th, 2012
10:51 am
DS1
November 9th, 2012
7:53 am
Good to see the above poster is still around, thought DOB might “flag” him because of election.
ncscoots
November 9th, 2012
10:51 am
Granted the plate discipline leaves a lot to be desired, but keep in mind he’s only 25 years old. He can, and should, improve.
How anyone could believe Salcedo is a total bust with no upside (most likely with barely having seen the guy) and then opine that Francisco is “only 25 and should improve” mystifies me. So far, two peas in a pod. With the same rank odor.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
November 9th, 2012
10:52 am
“Rocket-Mannn!!!”
DAP
November 9th, 2012
10:53 am
murph I’m not saying he’s going to be a great hitter, but he could be an ok 3B in this league if given the opportunity to play every day.
good. that makes him trade bait.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
10:55 am
That’s what happens when you go heavy on low ceiling players for signability while also eschewing your high draft picks for aging veteran free agents.
And, ya know, with the only two first rounders you had prior to June 2012 – you went with Mike Minor and Sean Gilmartin……
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 9th, 2012
10:55 am
That 4th starter could be any age.
So Maholm for Willingham would be perfect!
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
10:57 am
Salcedo will begin 2013 with Double-A Mississippi and play most of the year except the last month as a 21 year old. That’s probably his only positive feature, that and his power….
Bethancourt will play the entire 2013 season as a 21 year old.
Murph
November 9th, 2012
10:59 am
How anyone could believe Salcedo is a total bust with no upside (most likely with barely having seen the guy) and then opine that Francisco is “only 25 and should improve” mystifies me. So far, two peas in a pod. With the same rank odor.
You should look at their minor league numbers.
Salcedo has shown he is overmatched in rookie level ball while Francisco played well to very well at times in the minors.
Being overmatched in A ball and being overmatched at the MLB level are two very different things.
Gary O.
November 9th, 2012
11:00 am
IF the Braves trade for Willingham, it becomes that more important to resign Reed Johnson (imo), because we need a legit backup in case of injury, and to give him days off. Also, it would be good if we can get a solid 3B backup (slimmer, more disciplined Fransicso?) so that Prado can backup LF as well.
RC
November 9th, 2012
11:00 am
How anyone could believe Salcedo is a total bust with no upside (most likely with barely having seen the guy)
I’m not a huge Francisco fan, so I won’t even try to defend him. And I won’t for a second say that Salcedo has no upside. What I will say is that in spending nearly an hour watching him take infield practice two years ago, he looked TERRIBLE. Like, the kid who gets made fun of and eventually quits the little league baseball team terrible. Dropping 10 consecutive pop-ups terrible.
Obviously, it was a single look, and he could improve upon that dramatically. But for a player to look that out of place on a baseball field beyond the age of 12 is concerning….honestly, I hope he was just REALLY hung over, because that’s the only thing that would make any kind of sense.
RC
November 9th, 2012
11:02 am
Being overmatched in A ball and being overmatched at the MLB level are two very different things.
True, but in Salcedo’s defense, age and experience matter. And doesn’t have much of either yet.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 9th, 2012
11:05 am
What I will say is that in spending nearly an hour watching him take infield practice two years ago, he looked TERRIBLE. Like, the kid who gets made fun of and eventually quits the little league baseball team terrible. Dropping 10 consecutive pop-ups terrible….for a player to look that out of place on a baseball field beyond the age of 12 is concerning
Wow, you can look that bad in the field, do poorly as a hitter, and still play in the Braves organization? I have some hope.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 9th, 2012
11:05 am
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
10:48 am
Unfortunately, it seems like the Braves whole minor league position player roster is looking like utility player types.
Bethancourt, Salcedo and Peraza might have a chance to be more. Don’t see it as much in Ahmed, Cunningham, and La Stella.
It’s funny Ef because the ones who you say might pan out as more are really struggling right now in the minor leagues while the ones you say maybe nothing more than utility player are doing really well.
ncscoots
November 9th, 2012
11:05 am
Murph, my point is that it’s much more likely that a kid at Salcedo’s age will improve dramatically in the minors than it is that a 25-year-old is going to improve dramatically at the ML level.
It’s just inconsistent logic to say one is a now-and-future bust but the other is due to improve. I’m much more knocking Francisco here than touting the resurrection of Salcedo.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 9th, 2012
11:07 am
It’s funny Ef because the ones who you say might pan out as more are really struggling right now in the minor leagues while the ones you say maybe nothing more than utility player are doing really well.
Much like Delgado, Graham, Gilmartin vs. Teheran. Those other 3 may make and stick in the MLB before Teheran!
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
11:08 am
I’m okay with folks crticizing the Braves farm system and Bethancourt/Salcedo in particular since they are the Braves best position player prospects.
But when you start ranking the likes of William Beckwith ahead of them soley based on stats he compiled as a 22 year old in Low-A Rome as an unathletic 1st baseman…..then I have issues with you as a prospect guru.
I don’t know John Sickels, but I do know many that consider him as a punchline, much like Gone Viral considers Keith Law as a punchline.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
11:11 am
It’s funny Ef because the ones who you say might pan out as more are really struggling right now in the minor leagues while the ones you say maybe nothing more than utility player are doing really well.
Yup – older players for their level and they are performing well statistically.
Very frustrating to see a lot of 23 or 24 year olds in Double-A and those considered to be our top position player prospects.
Not sure when or if it will change.
Mixxo
November 9th, 2012
11:12 am
Nice knowin’ ya Bourny……and take Hanson & Heap with ya1
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 9th, 2012
11:13 am
So when can we expect this “moonlight” Graham kid in a Braves uniform at Turner?
George_George
November 9th, 2012
11:13 am
MARK MCGIURE is going to be on DAN PATRICK show in 15 minns. I wonder why MARK is allowed to have a job in MLB [the DODGERS] MARK was one of the worst cheaters. All you had to do was see a picture of him when he came up with OAK, then a picture of him when with STL.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
11:14 am
New York Yankees Top 10 Prospects
By John Manuel(Baseball America)
November 9, 2012
1. Mason Williams, of
2. Slade Heathcott, of
3. Gary Sanchez, c
4. Tyler Austin, of
5. Jose Campos, rhp
6. Brett Marshall, rhp
7. Angelo Gumbs, 2b
8. Manny Banuelos, lhp
9. Ty Hensley, rhp
10. Rafael De Paula, rhp
Murph
November 9th, 2012
11:17 am
It’s just inconsistent logic to say one is a now-and-future bust but the other is due to improve.
Francisco needs playing time. As I mentioned, look at his minor league numbers. Yes, signs of plate discipline problems exist there, too, but when he got consistent playing time he did fairly well. At times very well. The same can be said of his time in the majors to a lesser degree. When he got more playing time he performed better. Not all-star better, but better.
I haven’t seen much of Salcedo outside of stat lines and maybe 2 or 3 videos. I’m not a trained scout. All I know of the kid is what I see in richbraves’ daily reports. And he seems to be going in the wrong direction. Error after error, K after K.
Next season will be pretty telling. He’ll be facing some real talent in AA, guys that are knocking on the doors of playing in the majors. Personally I think he’s going to get chewed up and spit out. On the flip side, I think if Francisco were to play everyday in the MLB I think he’d have some periods of atrocious play, but I also think he’d eventually hold his own and be a serviceable 3B for the Braves. Not an all-star, but a guy who won’t embarrass himself on the field and will come through for the team from time to time.
BravesFanInMaine
November 9th, 2012
11:17 am
The braves farm systems always produce good pitchers but the future in the farm system right now is very pitching heavy and weak at hitting imo~~
Lew
November 9th, 2012
11:19 am
I really wish the IT people here would get their act together and make this ((&*^%$#^**((ing blog stato refresh correctly.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
11:21 am
The braves farm systems always produce good pitchers but the future in the farm system right now is very pitching heavy and weak at hitting imo~~
Obviously.
George_George
November 9th, 2012
11:21 am
Lew
November 9th, 2012
11:19 am
I am with you on that Lew.
ncscoots
November 9th, 2012
11:22 am
Not an all-star, but a guy who won’t embarrass himself on the field and will come through for the team from time to time.
Well, if he’s on the squad, I hope you’re right. Maybe he gets things cooking in the winter leagues and comes back raking.
But, me, if he does that, I’d have Mulder and Scully checking his passport.
Lew
November 9th, 2012
11:23 am
Maybe Francisco becomes a decent player if givn the time to play, maybe he’ll never be a swing hard in case you hit it Guy, but there is no way that any season Salcedo has had since being signed could be described as anything other than a major disappointment.
Lew
November 9th, 2012
11:24 am
Maybe he’ll never be anything BUT a swing hard Guy.
Disgusted
November 9th, 2012
11:25 am
How anyone could believe Salcedo is a total bust with no upside (most likely with barely having seen the guy) and then opine that Francisco is “only 25 and should improve” mystifies me. So far, two peas in a pod. With the same rank odor.
We have seen Francisco play and there has been progress at the MLB lavel — we saw it last yr. He showed good defense at the big league level.
Salcedo cannot even make routine plays in A ball — how is he ever going to get better when he is so bad in A ball. He is worse than hlf of the 12 yr olders out there in the field.
I do not know what teams saw in him. No range, no hands.
Disgusted
November 9th, 2012
11:27 am
The biggest red flag about Salcedo is his defense — its not getting any better.
This game is not for him. I hope he saved that bonus money.
Murph
November 9th, 2012
11:28 am
I guess I have a bit of a bias towards Francisco too… Klesko was always my favorite Brave when on the team, and I’ve been waiting for another bat flipping HR hitter to arrive on the scene.
I like a guy to stand and watch his HR… I like a good bat flip or kiss blown at the pitcher… yes, it’s silly when it comes from a guy who strikes out 3 times and then hits a meaningless HR, but I still like it.
ncscoots
November 9th, 2012
11:30 am
Salcedo cannot even make routine plays in A ball — how is he ever going to get better when he is so bad in A ball.
My guess is that you never saw Marcus Giles play 2B in the minors. He made Salcedo look like Scott Rolen. Yet, Giles became a solid guy with the glove. That means there’s hope for stone-hands IF the world over.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
11:30 am
Well, we’ll soon know enough about the Braves farm system. Usually, these things come more apparent with time. If they continue to fall short with their drafts and international signings, it will be viewed as a poor system throughout the sport.
Wren brought in his guys to take over(DeMacio), so I’m not sure who gets the blame if something like that happens.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 9th, 2012
11:32 am
Personally I think he’s (Salcedo) going to get chewed up and spit out.
Same can be said for Hanson if he were in the AL, Francisco or Constanza as everyday players…..
Juan’s looking decent so far… still needs the plate discipline. Over a K a game, just 2 BB for Licey. Just 11 games in, hope he keeps it up.
George_George
November 9th, 2012
11:34 am
How can MARK MCGWIRE be a hitting coach with a .263 lifetime batting ave? Plus he only hit HRs because he doped up.
Disgusted
November 9th, 2012
11:34 am
I agree with that 11:30 post Efrim — if ur system falls to one of the bottom 5 in baseball than we are doomed later in the decade & maybe into the 20’s.
And its not like the payroll is going to be what it was in the halycon days relative to what the other teams are doing.
I do not see promising days ahead of the system does not get its act together. They have to get better soon.
Lew
November 9th, 2012
11:35 am
Yeah, but the difference is that Salcedo will get chewed up and spit out in the minors. I’m betting ever even gets to the bigs at the rate he’s going.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
11:39 am
And it’s tough to hear about the 2007 draft over and over. That was a really long time ago. Wren has been in charge of 2008-2012 – five drafts, that’s how he should be viewed. DeMacio started to run things starting in 2010.
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 9th, 2012
11:42 am
JuanFran for his MLB career has a . 272/.320/.487.806 line vs RHP, with a .348 BABIP. His numbers will likely drop with more playing time. His .190/.224/.222/.446 vs LHP carries a .300 BABIP. Those numbers should stay the same.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
11:42 am
2010: Simmons(2nd), 2011: Graham(4th), Gilmartin(1st), Ahmed(2nd), 2012: Sims(1st), Wood(2nd) – probably the best players DeMacio has drafted.
Also nabbed Gattis in the 22nd round of the 2010 draft, I believe.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 9th, 2012
11:44 am
Murph
Still think Wren gets something done today? When DOB posted that article last night I started laughing because I read the typical “we are setting the groundwork for future trades” line once again.
Murph
November 9th, 2012
11:49 am
BP, I definitely thought we’d have something more solid to go on by now. I still think Wren is going to act fast, and he might get something done today, but I’m starting to wonder….
With the press reports of Span being possibly linked to the Braves I thought that would definitely get done sooner than later. Maybe so, still, but now I’d guess that it’ll be after Thanksgiving before we see the team start to come together.
Shaun
November 9th, 2012
11:50 am
I saw DOB’s Tweet about Torii Hunter’s unusually high BABIP in 2012. However in 2010-2011 his BABIP was more in line with his career BABIP (.302 in 2010-2011 and .307 for his career), and he posted a .345 OBP and .447 SLG in those seasons.
The concern with Hunter probably has more to do with age than anything else. If the Braves think Gattis is for real, I think Hunter would be a nice short-term option.
This might be a good strategy, go with a good all-around centerfielder, one who can provide some offense and sign Hunter so as not to block Gattis or so that you have a contract and a player that are fairly easy to trade when Gattis is ready.
Venice Jim
November 9th, 2012
11:51 am
Paul Pabst @PaulPabst
“No…not by the guidelines they have now. I totally respect the Hall of Fame.”–Mark McGwire on if he would vote for himself for HOF.
TennesseePaul
November 9th, 2012
11:56 am
Sean Gilmartin for Josh Willingham it is!
I would think then they would haggle over control vs contract. The skill of the player is set at a certain level, then next on the list would be how do they value the contract and the years of control in return. I would think Signable would be too steep in Wren’s view and he would counter the offer.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
November 9th, 2012
11:57 am
Mixxo
“Nice knowin’ ya Bourny……and take Hanson & Heap with ya!”
Agreed, And B-Macc Will Leave Regardless of what kind of season he has, The Braves are not gonna pay a(n) again catcher 16 or more mill per season, He will be wearing a AL uni in 2014 Bank on it…
Big Red is just Flat out Lost, Bleh
Venice Jim
November 9th, 2012
11:58 am
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick
Just saw #Angels GM Jerry DiPoto in Starbucks at hotel & asked him if it’s true that he has the best hair of any BB exec.
DiPoto said Frank Wren of #braves and Dave Dombrowski of #tigers both belong in conversation.
Shaun
November 9th, 2012
11:59 am
The only concern with signing someone like Hunter in hopes that Gattis will be ready to take over is that you might miss out on a bigger bat and it’s taking a gamble that Gattis will definitely be at least a solid major league leftfielder. If Gattis is more of a Hinske type and Hunter shows his age, you are stuck.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
12:01 pm
I would think Signable would be too steep in Wren’s view and he would counter the offer.
Man, I’d be pretty upset with Wren if refused to part with Sean Gilmartin for Josh Willingham.
CB
November 9th, 2012
12:01 pm
Maholm and Spruill for Willingham?
TheOnlyBravesFan
November 9th, 2012
12:04 pm
Man, I’d be pretty upset with Wren if refused to part with Sean Gilmartin for Josh Willingham.
Much like I was when he refused to part with Minor for Hunter Pence….
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 9th, 2012
12:13 pm
We are still talking about Josh f’n Willingham? Did you guys not read that post from TOBF from a Twins fan who watches every game? Willingham is another Uggla who never comes up with clutch hits as can be seen with his terrible average, gets his power numbers when the game is out of reach, and we all know about his terrible defense. The Braves can do better.
brian
November 9th, 2012
12:13 pm
Great comment above TOBF
Powderfinger
November 9th, 2012
12:18 pm
“Great comment above TOBF”
Co-sign!
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
November 9th, 2012
12:23 pm
BravePack(FreeFan)
“We are still talking about Josh f’n Willingham? Did you guys not read that post from TOBF from a Twins fan who watches every game? Willingham is another Uggla who never comes up with clutch hits as can be seen with his terrible average, gets his power numbers when the game is out of reach, and we all know about his terrible defense. The Braves can do better.”
Co-Sign…He has Nate McLouth written all over him…Plus he is not a Game Changer! We need a Splash move! Ya Know a Move that will put Cheeks in the Seats during weekday games
Willingham is Sooo Overrated!!!
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
November 9th, 2012
12:24 pm
BravePack(FreeFan)
“We are still talking about Josh f’n Willingham? Did you guys not read that post from TOBF from a Twins fan who watches every game? Willingham is another Uggla who never comes up with clutch hits as can be seen with his terrible average, gets his power numbers when the game is out of reach, and we all know about his terrible defense. The Braves can do better.”
Co-Sign…He has Nate McLouth written all over him…Plus he is not a Game Changer! We need a Splash move! Ya Know a Move that will put Cheeks in the Seats during weekday games
Willingham is Sooo Overrated!!!
Shaun
November 9th, 2012
12:31 pm
Have you looked at Willingham’s performance compared to Uggla’s?
If so, you apparently aren’t interpreting the information correctly. There is nothing that indicates Willingham is another Uggla, unless you are talking Uggla at his very best. Uggla at his very best approaches a typical Josh Willingham season, and it’s pretty obvious that’s the case. So I would love to know what you are looking at or how you are interpreting what you are looking at.
David O'Brien
November 9th, 2012
12:37 pm
I saw DOB’s Tweet about Torii Hunter’s unusually high BABIP in 2012. However in 2010-2011 his BABIP was more in line with his career BABIP (.302 in 2010-2011 and .307 for his career), and he posted a .345 OBP and .447 SLG in those seasons.
The concern with Hunter probably has more to do with age than anything else. If the Braves think Gattis is for real, I think Hunter would be a nice short-term option. — Shaun
Yes, he was obviously a little younger in 2010-2011. He’s 37 now, and even for a guy that keeps himself in great shape, that’s getting up there for an every-day outfielder. But I agree, he’d be a nice addition, and by all accounts he’s as good as it gets in the clubhouse, a true leader and strong, upbeat presence.
However, I also hear he prefers strongly to stay in NL if he can, and wants to go to a team that gives him best chance to win a World Series. If he decides Braves offer than more than an AL team, and that DHing once in a while isn’t that important to him, then maybe he’d listen if they make a strong offer. But I wouldn’t count on it.
David O'Brien
November 9th, 2012
12:38 pm
See if you can trade Hanson for Span. If not, sign Pagan. In left, lets see if Gattis is the answer. All of these moves can be done for well less than 25 million. — ALJ
If only it were that easy. Giants are going to do all they can to keep Pagan, and he wants to stay. So the Braves or another team would have to blow them out of the water with an offer, I’d imagine. But it can be done if they want him bad enough.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
12:40 pm
Comment From Eric:
Is this the worst the Braves farm system has been in years? Why doesn’t Wren and DeMacio get criticized for their drafts the last 3-4 years?
Mike Newman(Fangraphs): They system is awfully thin on bats and I haven’t seen an impact arm since Teheran. Graham, Gilmartin and Wood all have flaws. I don’t think they are being heavily criticized because of their drafting late AND being on a limited budget. They just aren’t in a good position to be taking many chances and it shows.
Marc Hulet: They also manage to find sleepers like Cody Martin and Jose Peraza.
Shaun
November 9th, 2012
12:43 pm
No wonder some of you are critical of certain statistics and refuse to pay attention to them. You seem to not understand how to interpret data, as evident by thinking Josh Willingham and Dan Uggla are similar players.
Murph
November 9th, 2012
12:47 pm
No wonder some of you are critical of certain statistics and refuse to pay attention to them. You seem to not understand how to interpret data, as evident by thinking Josh Willingham and Dan Uggla are similar players.
I’ve decided, rather than jump down your throat when you act douchey, that I’ll warn you as I don’t think you actually know when you’re doing it.
The above post was definitely headed towards douchey-town.
David O'Brien
November 9th, 2012
12:49 pm
Have you looked at Willingham’s performance compared to Uggla’s?
If so, you apparently aren’t interpreting the information correctly. There is nothing that indicates Willingham is another Uggla, unless you are talking Uggla at his very best. Uggla at his very best approaches a typical Josh Willingham season, and it’s pretty obvious that’s the case. So I would love to know what you are looking at or how you are interpreting what you are looking at. — Shaun
Couldn’t agree more. I read that and was just dumbfounded. I’d like to see that explanation for the comparison, too.
CrαZy
November 9th, 2012
12:50 pm
Some things never change!!
DAP
November 9th, 2012
12:51 pm
douchton, they call it.
DAP
November 9th, 2012
12:55 pm
the comparison with uggla and willingham is pretty easy to see. low batting average, good power, and the perception of bad defense. willingham has always been a bit better in OPS, but i can understand why folks put them in relatively the same category.
Shaun
November 9th, 2012
12:55 pm
Murph, just trying to be as honest as possible. I’m not trying to be douchey or offensive, nor am I trying to avoid offending. If you can’t see that Willingham is clearly a better hitter than Uggla, you’re missing something and that something is pretty obvious. It’s a pretty extreme position that is so contrary to every piece of data and information that is readily available to anyone and everyone.
David O'Brien
November 9th, 2012
12:58 pm
Luis Durango signed a minor league deal with Royals. The little CF hit .289 and stole a league-high 46 bases in 62 attempts for Triple-A Gwinnett in 2012. He played a little in the majors with the Padres in 2009 and 2010, and two games with the Astros in 2011.
Murph
November 9th, 2012
12:59 pm
If you can’t see that Willingham is clearly a better hitter than Uggla, you’re missing something and that something is pretty obvious.
I have made zero comparisons of Uggla to Willingham.
I just wanted to point out that your tone was turning douchey. You’ve been doing pretty well around here lately, not getting all condescending towards others. Didn’t want you to lose the little bit of ground you’ve made up in your dealings with the commoners.
Rick C
November 9th, 2012
12:59 pm
DOB, are you not worried about Willingham’s staying healthy though? He won’t have the luxury of being able to DH.
ncscoots
November 9th, 2012
1:02 pm
And Shaun’s day is made. A chance to display a little misplaced arrogance, sprinkle it with a dash of unfounded condescension, et voila!
David O'Brien
November 9th, 2012
1:03 pm
DOB, are you not worried about Willingham’s staying healthy though? He won’t have the luxury of being able to DH.
Of course. You’re always concerned with someone who’s had chronic back issues. But I think it’s well worth the risk for a player with that kind of power and production the past two seasons, and with that seriously club-friendly contract, and given that he played 145 games last year including 118 starts in the outfield (he DH’d in 25 games).
I mean, you are talking about $7 mill a year for the next two seasons, for a veteran who has 64 homers and 208 RBIs the past two seasons, including 35 homers and a .366 OBP and .890 OPS last season while playing in a pitcher-friendly home ballpark.
Shaun
November 9th, 2012
1:03 pm
DAP, thanks for the reasonable response. I see others just want to go the “you’re douchey” route and not provide a counter.
the comparison with uggla and willingham is pretty easy to see. low batting average, good power, and the perception of bad defense. willingham has always been a bit better in OPS
DAP, to my point, so it’s a basic misinterpretation of the data. Willingham’s OPS compared to Uggla’s OPS aren’t all that close. It’s even more noticeable in some of the context-adjusted metrics. But to those who think batting average is a more telling than it actually is, I can see why the perception is there.
Shaun
November 9th, 2012
1:09 pm
It’s impossible to predict injury, with the possible exception of pitchers with arm issues and someone with chronic injuries to one specific part of their body. There are actually players who are as healthy or more healthy in the later years of their career. Of course medical history should be a consideration but it can be overstated. Injuries are largely unpredictable.
nolie
November 9th, 2012
1:09 pm
All you had to do was see a picture of him when he came up with OAK, then a picture of him when with STL…George
and yet he set the rookie home run record at 49 or so as a rook
Rick C
November 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
DOB, I agree that for his level of production his salary is an absolute steal. But, he’s only played more than 140 games 3 times in his career, and he’s DH’d in 61 games over the last two years. I am concerned that he wouldn’t be able to stay healthy having to play the field every day.
DAP
November 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
shaun, people kinda create their own categories to place players in. everybody’s perception is different. all im saying is that willingham and uggla have a few similarities, to where i can conceive of them being in the same category to some people.
also, murph was right, your sounding a bit douchey. hes just trying to help.
ncscoots
November 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
I see others just want to go the “you’re douchey” route and not provide a counter
Considering that “counters’ don’t ever produce a scintilla of discussion with you, who would bother with that, LOL? It’s more entertaining just to make fun of you.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
Is anyones screen showing the text right justified? My screen is pretty whack today.
P-Town Brave ©
November 9th, 2012
1:14 pm
119
96
108
Those are games in the field Willingham has played over the last 3 years….
I didn’t realize we wanted to subtract a Chipper and add another
Shaun
November 9th, 2012
1:14 pm
Willingham played noticeably more games per season than Chipper over the previous four seasons and was noticeably more productive. So I’d say it’s worth the risk, assuming any reasonable trade and assuming there is not a better deal out there.
nolie
November 9th, 2012
1:15 pm
Co-Sign…He has Nate McLouth written all over him
JHC what a line of crap, the guy is the 28th best hitter in baseball now and has hit in tough parks with no trouble at all. knock his defense, knosk his durability, but anybody who knocks him as a hitter is a damn fool.
DS1
November 9th, 2012
1:15 pm
Royals are raiding our cookie jar again! Don’t tell Coach that Durango is gone!
David O'Brien
November 9th, 2012
1:16 pm
DOB, I agree that for his level of production his salary is an absolute steal. But, he’s only played more than 140 games 3 times in his career, and he’s DH’d in 61 games over the last two years. I am concerned that he wouldn’t be able to stay healthy having to play the field every day. — Rick C
OK, what if he “only” plays 125-130 games a year for the next two seasons? (He’s played 133 or more games three times in the past four seasons). If he produces at the rate he did past two seasons, he’d hit, what, 25 homers and drive in about 90 runs in that man games? For $7 million a season?
P-Town Brave ©
November 9th, 2012
1:19 pm
So….its become commonplace to knock Uggla being a 1 dimensional power hitter but its not ok to bash a guy on the last placed Twins?
.261 .362 .483 .845
.253 .343 .469 .813
The numbers aren’t that different….and this after one had a career best year in 2012 and the other a career worst….
if you didn’t sh*t on Uggla then you can’t be grouped in here, but if you did, then well…..
And really….obviously it was NOTICEABLY…..Chipper tore an ACL in the last 4 years numbnuts!
ncscoots
November 9th, 2012
1:19 pm
Is anyones screen showing the text right justified? My screen is pretty whack today.
Maybe the IT guys just fixed the “server error” problem.
Efrim
November 9th, 2012
1:19 pm
This is the first time it’s happened with me with the text, but AJC.com has been really bad the last month or so.