5:38 pm November 2, 2012, by David O'Brien
November 6th, 201212:58 pm
Where is it reported or even rumored that Braves’ management will pursue Greinke? There’s a reality disconnect here, gentlemen.
November 6th, 20121:01 pm
Well, at least ONE person is disconnected re: Greinke. Must be the folly of youth.
Does anyone know whatever happened to Larry Parrish
November 6th, 20121:04 pm
I heard something about a UFO abduction in connection with Parrish.
As for my predictions and to put a positive spin on Patrick’s negativity, I feel B.J. Upton will be in CF for Atlanta over the next 3 years. Just a feeling that it may happen soon. Hope it happens anyway. Given my track record it probably won’t happen. At all.
Manager for the Class A affiliate of the Detroit Tigers
We’ll just see how much Greinke would be wanted next year when we need to replace 2 pitchers, and y’all see how bad the SP market is. I’ve already seen it (I’ve looked ahead), and it’s pretty bad already. If the few good ones get locked up, oh my. I doubt we could really trade for a good pitcher either… our farm is pretty poor.
Gotta hope that Medlen and Minor are aces next year.
November 6th, 20121:05 pm
The Braves fired him at the end of last season.
November 6th, 20121:06 pm
You’ve got to hand it to Wren. He keeps his cards close to his vest. Upton – maybe. Willingham – maybe. Pagan – maybe. Who knows?
If Grienke is available at a price that is appropriate for the Braves, they should grab him, even though he can’t play outfield or third base. The issue is getting Grienke to accept a contract that works for the Braves within the context of the Braves wanting to add players in the outfield and/or third base.
November 6th, 20121:08 pm
You can’t just say, we don’t need a SP this year, and completely ignore that position. If someone is available, in your price range, while allowing you to fill other needs, you at least have to look at it.
Such is the situation this year.
November 6th, 20121:12 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan, you’re a nice guy, so I don’t want to appear to come down too hard on you. But where are you getting this Greinke patter? Do you think Wren reads the blog or much less cares about our opinions? Do you know someone inside the Braves’ organization who’s tipped you off that the Braves are interested in Greinke? What’s the basis of your steady drumbeat?
Greinke’s a good pitcher; you’re obviously partial to him, but there’s nothing to indicate that he’ll be wearing a Braves’ uniform in 2013. Nothing.
We can fill both our needs from Texas.. no need to go out and sign a couple of outfielders to long term (and mostly overpaid amounts) when you can move a package and bring Olt and Gentry into the fold. That would lessen the need to be all out aggressive. Gentry could hold down CF (even if you did it platoon style) and Olt at 3rd would allow Prado to stay in left.
November 6th, 20121:13 pm
I agree with the sentiment TheOnlyBravesFan, but is Greinke really in the Braves’ price range? He’s the top SP available, and teams with bigger payrolls and a bigger need for SP than the Braves will be after him.
November 6th, 20121:14 pm
when you can move a package and bring Olt and Gentry into the fold.
…speaking of “steady drumbeat”.
November 6th, 20121:16 pm
I could go for Dan Haren
P-Town Brave ©
Thanks for the tip….maybe I’ll use that roster for my next Franchise and RTTS modes…
I know all about OS….I use their roster downloads for my NCAA Football games…..they put quite a bit of effort into their work….and at least I know I wouldn’t be seeing an African American guy named Bill McDermott playing next to me on the Marlins if I downloaded that…..at least not for awhile that is….
There’s nothing to indicate that Wren is looking at starting pitching. Nothing. What do you know that we don’t?
Man I just don’t get all these concerns about our pitching. Every team has some degree of concerns but all of our guys have enough of a sample size to gauge how we look heading into next year. Given our needs at other spots we won’t have the cash or players (probably) to spend on what it would take to get better pitching than we have.
Medlen, Minor, Hudson, Maholm, Delgado alone should be sufficient. Beachy, hopefully, will be our ace after the break. That’s formidable. Throw in a Hanson everyone wants to rejuvenate and the absolute very last thing we need to worry about is pitching of any kind. We have more pitchers than we need now (if there is such a thing). Things could change as we near the break but let’s cross that bridge when we get to it.
November 6th, 20121:19 pm
efrim Good point. He will not pay big for relievers, and I don’t think that will change.
the definition of “paying big for relievers” has changed, so i wouldnt so so sure that wren wont pay up for kimbrel. before wren started investing in the ‘pen, JS never spent anything on it, and it was almost always shaky at best. a good bullpen is vital.
According to Wren there doesn’t look like any scenario will keep him from moving Prado back to the infield. Nor should there be IMO.
November 6th, 20121:21 pm
Have I mentioned we should trade a package to Texas for Gentry and Olt today? Well, we should.
November 6th, 20121:23 pm
AT – long term with Olt would be great but the Braves still need one big bat at LF/3B plus a reliable CF/leadoff hitter. Gentry I am not sold on and I do not want to rely on too many rookies.
With Dempster leaving we may be able to swing something with Delgado but I do not see us matching up very well with Texas. Plus I have a bad taste in my mouth just at the thought of trading with Texas
but all of our [starting pitchers] have enough of a sample size to gauge how we look heading into next year.
Wren does read the blog…..
November 6th, 20121:24 pm
November 6th, 20121:25 pm
Beachy, hopefully, will be our ace after the break.
Doh! Can’t depend on that. He’ll be coming off of TJ surgery. I wouldn’t bet on him being an ace down the stretch, or being able to pitch all of 2014 (innings concern)
Me too… for about 10-12mil a season. He’s a good pitcher, nothing special. Good track record though, eats up innings. Stays pretty healthy.
What do you know that we don’t?
That we need good pitching in 2013 and the 2014 market, when we need to add 2 pitchers is pretty poor. I know nothing more than that. There are a few analysts, fans, baseball people etc. who still think the Braves may make a run at Greinke. But the majority feel that with Medlen’s performance + the offense’s shutdown after July, SP may not be as big a priority for Wren anymore. I just disagree.
Plus, I’m not seeing 2 premium players to add on offense. Maybe we add 1 hitter, a pitcher, and a young player at the 2nd OF spot. We can spend around 35mil this winter…..
November 6th, 20121:26 pm
a good bullpen is vital.
But paying 10 million+ for one reliever has never been the Braves thing, and really shouldn’t be any team’s strategy if the payroll is below $100 million.
November 6th, 20121:28 pm
Relievers and bullpens are volatile. Paying big for closers is something the Yankees can probably do, but I do not believe the Braves can.
November 6th, 20121:29 pm
No I don’t.
We are not trading for nor signing a starting pitcher….
Why does this keep coming up?
November 6th, 20121:30 pm
Why not trade for Brett Gardner or Wil Venable? Then sign BJ Upton. Have Gardner/Venable leadoff and put Upton in the 5 hole behind Heyward and Freeman.
I agree with the sentiment TheOnlyBravesFan, but is Greinke really in the Braves’ price range?
Yes. If he’d accept something under 21mil a season, it’s very reasonable. We could pay him more than that if necessary (we have 35mil or so to spend), but that’d probably be my absolute limit. And that’s kinda stretching it. The new TV deal starts in ‘14, so we’d be fine.
all of our guys have enough of a sample size to gauge how we look heading into next year. Given our needs at other spots we won’t have the cash or players (probably) to spend on what it would take to get better pitching than we have.
False false false. The sample size (half a season) is not enough. We do have the cash to get better pitching.
Ten percent of payroll for 60 IP, regardless of how good those IP are, probably isn’t the best allocation of resources.
November 6th, 20121:31 pm
TOBF…..yeah I’m kinda expecting Beachy to be our ace later in the year. All we have to do is look at the comebacks of Medlen and Hudson from surgery to feel optimistic. Anything can happen but I’m betting after a few starts and enough innings that Beachy will be back to the 2.00 ERA he was sporting before the injury.
Rock on…..we don’t need pitching. Just yet.
November 6th, 20121:32 pm
But honestly, use and abuse. Kimbrel has four more years of control – he isn’t going anywhere yet. I just wouldn’t extend him or lock him up.
November 6th, 20121:33 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan, again I think teams like the Rangers and Angels though, who have bigger payrolls than the Braves and a bigger immediate need for SP, are going to be able to easily pay Greinke more than the Braves. Why would the Braves, a team with a limited payroll and two more definite needs, want to get into a bidding war over a player who they don’t necessarily need right now?
Because Beachy is recovering from Tommy John, Jurrjens and Hanson fell off the face of the earth, Minor hasn’t pitched well for more than 3 months, Teheran and Delgado are still struggling, and Hudson is about 50.
I mean, it’s almost as if having reliable pitching is important or something.
November 6th, 20121:34 pm
brian, Gentry isn’t really a rookie and does quite well against left handed pitching, plus he has speed and a very good glove. I’d be alright with using him in some sort of platoon if need be but we really wouldn’t know much until ST. As far as Olt goes, he’d definitely be a good long term option at 3rd, has good defense and great power.
And I’m sure he’ll make personnel decisions based on which players tally the most favorable comments.
November 6th, 20121:37 pm
Why does [acquiring a SP] keep coming up?
Since it’s unlikely that any OF acquisitions are going to add to the Braves’ run prevention (given the players who will be leaving the OF), upgrading the SP is an alternative method of doing so. One would hate to waste the extra run differential created by getting two offensive players only to give that differential back with poorer defense. Adding a front-line pitcher could mitigate that.
I mean, that’s the reason that someone such as I might bring it up, LOL. I can’t speak for reasons that might prompt others to do so.
Before Atlanta picked up the 2013 option on Brian McCann, some teams checked in on his availability in a sign-and-trade scenario. But trading McCann would have been problematic: Other teams would have been looking to get him on the cheap, without surrendering major prospects, and given his stature within the organization, the Braves would have wanted decent return. McCann would have been an excellent DH-catcher option for an AL team, but nobody would have given up significant return to get him, considering the shoulder surgery he just had.
As it stands, there is a belief that McCann will be back at full speed sometime in the first quarter of the season. Braves GM Frank Wren will be looking for alternatives at the meetings this week.
Some folks within the Atlanta organization are realistic about their chances of re-signing Michael Bourn: Because of the price tag and the presence of other bidders, it’s probably not going to happen.
I have to imagine that if the Braves aren’t realistic about resigning Bourn, they can’t be too realistic about signing B.J. Upton either. When it is all said and done the price tag between the two won’t be all that much different.
November 6th, 20121:38 pm
I mean, I now we nee an OF and I’m hoping we get a big name. But I understand why pitching keeps coming up because, uh….pitching’s kind of important in baseball.
November 6th, 20121:39 pm
getting Greinke at a price reasonable to the team would be a huge upgrade for us. It would then allow us to trade from our pitching depth to add a significant bat for 3B or LF. Our rotation would be set for years
And I’m sure he’ll make personnel decisions based on which players tally the most favorable comments
Is that why Constanza’s still around?
My first choice outside of acquiring Olt and Gentry would be to sign Grienke with Haren as my second option. I’d just like to know we have that top notch starter that we can turn to to lead our rotation going forward as our young guns develop more. I’d like our future if those things were to happen.
November 6th, 20121:40 pm
Some folks within the Atlanta organization are realistic about their chances of re-signing Michael Bourn: Because of the price tag and the presence of other bidders, it’s probably not going to happen.
As Gomer Pyle used to say: “Surprise, surprise, surprise!”
Oh for gosh sakes. If you don’t think half a year is enough of a sample size to feel good about next year then probably no sense in arguing with you. It’s plenty large enough. Maybe Delgado doesn’t have enough starts but he is our #5 so I can live with that. Why don’t we just go out and get King Felix, Greinke, Verlander, and Cain so we can have the rotation nobody will complain about.
Rock on….come to think of it, can we trade Uggla for Felix?
realistic CF – Pagan, Bourjos, Span, Revere, Schaffer
November 6th, 20121:41 pm
I can’t speak for reasons that might prompt others to do so.
I can speak for myself on that one – Fastball velocity that tops out at 90-91mph and usually sits between 88-90mph.
Just depressing with all the other flamethrowing starting pitching around the sport.
efrim But paying 10 million+ for one reliever has never been the Braves thing,
just like paying $6+ mil for a reliever wasnt the braves thing. but then….
i dont want to pay a reliever that much. im just saying, dont count it out, because things change.
getting Greinke at a price reasonable to the team would be a huge upgrade for us.
If the Braves acquire Greinke, I’m buying you guys steak dinners (virtual steak dinners, that is).
scoots@ 1:37 I’d agree with that. It’s also part of why I’d add Bourjos. Bourn was a big part of our defense, saving many runs in CF and adding to that run differential. I don’t want to dismantle that now, especially since we will lose defense in LF (unless we add Gordon)
November 6th, 20121:42 pm
Get real, no way are we obtaining Mike Olt…..just isn’t gonna happen
Oh for gosh sakes. If you don’t think half a year is enough of a sample size to feel good about next year then probably no sense in arguing with you. It’s plenty large enough.
No, it isn’t. And that thought process gets so many friggin teams in trouble and gets GM’s fired.
November 6th, 20121:43 pm
Yes, of course.
Oh for gosh sakes. If you don’t think half a year is enough of a sample size to feel good about next year then probably no sense in arguing with you.
“No sense” is correct.
November 6th, 20121:46 pm
I think Papelbon signed on November 11th or something last year. Be interesting to see which player is the first to sign and when that will occur.
with all our Francouer experience we surely should recognize Francisco’s faults and abilities. He will K a ton and make an out 7 out of every ten at bats and crush mistakes for a pretty fair amount of home runs. The traditional guys like Lew will say he is just fine and the statsy guys will hate him and they will argue about him as long as he is here.
He has a strong arm but came up with rep as a poor defensive third baseman but in his limited MLB play he is +2 on the Bill James +/- scale so he has played it Ok so far
November 6th, 20121:47 pm
Indeed. We could trade Maholm, Hanson, and 1 of Teheran/Delgado and feel good about our spot. We’d have a few pitchers coming up in the next year or so, we’ll have some depth. A good ML rotation as well sets us up to win many games. Greinke/Medlen/Hudson looks much better than Medlen/Hudson/Minor.
Fastball velocity that tops out at 90-91mph and usually sits between 88-90mph.
Yes, that too.
It’s plenty large enough. Maybe Delgado doesn’t have enough starts but he is our #5 so I can live with that. Why don’t we just go out and get King Felix, Greinke, Verlander, and Cain so we can have the rotation nobody will complain about.
Not large enough for me. Sorry. I’d have Delgado as my 5, yes. Greinke, Medlen, Hudson, Minor, Delgado is good enough for me. A true #1-2 at the front of our rotation. Currently, our best pitchers are #3s.
November 6th, 20121:48 pm
Besides, isn’t it possible to both be overjoyed with the progress shown by Minor and Medlen and yet be less so that they will be heading up the staff? Or are the two sentiments mutually exclusive?
November 6th, 20121:50 pm
This is what is going to happen the braves are going to sign bj upton… he is going to come to atl….. so your outfield has upton, gettis, and heyward…. based on what they think upton will get the braves will still have about 10-15 million to spend so I can see them maybe going with gettis and if they are in it at the deadline using that cash flexibility to get a guy in a trade
November 6th, 20121:52 pm
whoa whoa….easy there, hippy. Everything’s black or white on this blog.
November 6th, 20121:53 pm
Nice story David, brings back memories, including that of Gene Garber. Besides breaking Pete Rose’s hitting streak, I can vividly remember Gene slinging one of the Padres around. lol
November 6th, 20121:54 pm
Pardon me. I had a moment of bipartisanship.
November 6th, 20121:55 pm
There has to be a reason the Angels couldn’t trade Haren at just 1 year and $15.5 million.
The Cubs are considered one of the smarter front offices around and they wouldn’t give up an erratic reliever for Dan Haren at 1 year, $15.5 million, reportedly. Plus apparently no other team offered the Angels anything to their liking, which is odd, unless there are significant medical red flags.
November 6th, 20121:57 pm
Which reminds me. If you haven’t yet voted, get your stupy doodie-head butt out of the chair and get it done. Otherwise, you can shut yer pie-hole for the next four years.
And I can’t imagine anyone contributing to this forum who would want that.
November 6th, 20122:00 pm
nolie, I know folks label me a “stat guy” (though I’m just trying to be the best “baseball guy” I can be and I don’t think I know all that much about statistics compared to people who have actually studied statistics in a much more meaningful way) and I think Juan Francisco is fine as a bench player.
scoots – I voted, but it’s a little disconcerting placing your vote in a state that’s pretty much already decided.
Yay electoral college!
November 6th, 20122:02 pm
I’ve been able to squeeze some games in of WWE 13 the past couple of days and I agree with what you said about not being able to put it down. By far my favorite WWE game so far. Lots of new, great additions and modes and the gameplay is definitely better from the graphics down to the actual wrestling. I’m happy I told you to buy it as you seem pretty happy with it as well.
November 6th, 20122:04 pm
I see some folks are jumping on my bandwagon with BJ Upton for CF. So all that’s left is for Wren to trade for Gordon and I’m the winner in the poll. May not be my 1st choice but Upton is entering his prime years and could flourish in Atlanta.
November 6th, 20122:06 pm
any of you gamers play fallout? i cant get through any other game without coming back to it.
but it’s a little disconcerting placing your vote in a state that’s pretty much already decided.
One cannot be ruled by the mob. And every single voter exercising their right gives full throat to that cry, regardless of forecast or actual result. Good on ya.
Dewey was “pretty much already decided”, too.
November 6th, 20122:09 pm
Gattis will be the Braves LF unless he proves otherwise in spring training, This will give Wren the flexibility to sign a top shelf CF and possibly go after someone of Greinke’s stature. Then if Gattis can’t handle LF, Wren will still have plenty of ammunition from which to trade for a LF..
I voted also, I put the I Voted sticker on my dog’s sweater. I figure she is smarter than 50% of our voters in this country.
Georgia’s red, that’s almost certain. I’d be more surprised to see Juan Francisco release an instructional video on abdominal exercises than Georgia vote blue.
November 6th, 20122:10 pm
…. and black. Go Dawgs!
November 6th, 20122:12 pm
By the way…I heard a lot of people complaining about long lines with early voting….I was in and out in 10 minutes. Maybe it’s just because I went at 9 AM and everyone was at work (we’re furloughed today)
You go to UGA, TOBF?
November 6th, 20122:15 pm
is Greinke really in the Braves’ price range?
I really, truly doubt this. I’ve read where Wren is eschewing the rotation for “premium” platoon players, never the less, this should help a few he keep hoping Greinke can/will be had for less than Matt Cain. Zack Greinke is in the sites of the Dodgers, Angels and possibly even the Rangers. Any of those teams can afford to pay Greinke well over Matt Cain money if that is what it takes to get Greinke. That’s three of the richest teams in the game. Regardless of how one feels about Greinke, the man is getting paid this Winter.
November 6th, 20122:16 pm
By the way…I heard a lot of people complaining about long lines with early voting
By “early voting”, you mean “this morning”, correct?
We’ve had lines for the actual pre-Nov-6 “early” voting, in fact. It appears that the country is getting up out of their La-Z-Boys, for once.
i completely get the logic of spending 20% of mid-market team payroll to sign a guy that will appear in max 20% of the regular season games while calling in spectators to fill in vacant LF and CF positions that should be prioritized over getting a pitcher…unbelievable
November 6th, 20122:17 pm
No, I mean the past couple weeks.
November 6th, 20122:20 pm
positions that should be prioritized over getting a pitcher
If it’s that either/or, one-or-the-other, you’re right. I’m not sure that it needs be that cut-and-dried, but I’m with you, if it does.
and they wouldn’t give up an erratic reliever for Dan Haren at 1 year, $15.5 million, reportedly.
I’d read the player, Maramol or whoever it was, exercised a no-trade veto tanking that deal? I’d think the reason no team wanted to trade for him at that point was that there’s no reason to. Force the Angels hand. If they are going to offer a qual, let them offer. Then talk trade for a player making $2M less. If they offer nothing, then sign him for whatever price you like and lose no prospects. Haren was a “qual cusp.”
November 6th, 20122:21 pm
agree that I strongly doubt Greinke falls into our price range
November 6th, 20122:24 pm
No. My mom did.
while calling in spectators to fill in vacant LF and CF positions that should be prioritized over getting a pitcher…unbelievable
Willingham/Pence/Ross and Jay/Bourjos/Pagan are spectators? Cuz we could still afford those guys while signing Greinke.
TP,supposedly Marmol accepted the trade but Cubs were the ones who backed out.
November 6th, 20122:25 pm
Oh….well you should go.
November 6th, 20122:26 pm
Soph,I need a new brick wall. The last one you sent me has been pulverized.
November 6th, 20122:28 pm
I think Haren will get at least a one year, $12 million dollar offer. He may want to do that and re-establish his value. Or some team can give him three years, $36 million. Although that’d be a surprise.
I think Greinke gets at least six years, $135 million. Braves aren’t going near that.
November 6th, 20122:29 pm
once braves give greinke 20 mil., it does become either/or automatically..
i have nothing against greinke, would love to have him on the team but i just don’t understand how spending that much portion of total payroll on him can be justified as a wise move by anyone.
November 6th, 20122:31 pm
TennesseePaul, but if Haren was healthy, it’s hard to believe a team wouldn’t have traded for him at 1 year and $15.5M, especially if the price was merely a reliever. The fact that teams are willing to force the Angels hand is an indication that something isn’t quite right with Haren.
Another indication Haren isn’t quite right is his performance in 2012.
November 6th, 20122:33 pm
if braves have 25 mil available and greinke gets 20 mil, how are you going to pay for Willingham/Pence/Ross and Jay/Bourjos/Pagan with 5-odd mil left?
November 6th, 20122:38 pm
November 6th, 20122:45 pm
how are you going to pay for Willingham/Pence/Ross and Jay/Bourjos/Pagan with 5-odd mil left?
By adding Greinke, Maholm is no longer needed. He’s essentially a 6mil more expensive version of Minor. Hanson is already gone to me. That’s 10mil. 15 mil to spend on 2 OF positions.
Don’t quite have my intended major yet…. otherwise, I probably would have. It’s a very nice university in a great town.
November 6th, 20122:47 pm
A back loaded contract. 120,000 the 1st year and 19,880,000 the 2nd year.
Please…I was at UGA for 2 years before I knew my intended major. Changed it about 5 times actually
On this Election Day, it’s fitting to spend a little time talking about America’s battleground states: the ones with the most ferocious in-state college-football rivalries, that is
November 6th, 20122:48 pm
It’s a very nice university in a great town.
Yes it is!
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