if you can’t see that there is a big difference between hitting 30 homers in Coors and hitting 30 homers in a pitchers park,you will never have a true grasp of the game man
Well maybe we could sign Pagan for LF or hell throw his average defense in CF, and trade Prado for best offer and we’ll still be a just as good team after the moves are made. Of course I’m just being sarcastic. But I’m gonna let loose now, after the flat out pathetic effort I just watched.
Gattis could provide the team with a bonus if he makes the team as left-fielder and can an adequate catcher. With a third catcher in the lineup, both he and the regular backup (Ross I assume) could be used as pinch hitters without worrying about having a backup available in case McCann got injured.
I think with McCann missing April, the Braves need to see Gattis alot in spring training and possibly being on the 25 man roster for a taste of the bigs. Pretty sad that a 26 year old year old is our best offense prospect, if you can even call him that…
But at his age he might be ready to contribute on a part time basis, I mean realistically most see him as a possible bench player at best anyways. They really need to draft some offensive talent.
it is hard to rate Gattis because of his circumstances. Chronologically he was 25, but baseball experience age was more like 21 or 22, neither age is prolly an accurate description .so I kinda split the difference and think of him as a 23-24 YO approaching AAA for the first time
2nd round, Cunningham has put up solid numbers, but many believe he’s a 4th Outfielder at best at the big league level so far, plus he’s already 23 years old and basically not even a option for CF for 2013. So that’s pretty telling as well. (Rated our 12th best prospect)
1st rounder, Lipka is 3 years younger and very far away. But we’d really like to see some progress. Great athletic ability with blazing speed, suffered a hamstring injury this past season. Plenty of time for him. (Rated our 11th best prospect)
6th rounder, Joey Terdo… Believed by many to be over hyped. 24 years old killing AA pitching. Decided to start him in AAA for 2011 season and was completely overmatched before getting sent back down. (Rated our 7th Best Prospect)
Gattis would probably be best suited to start in AAA and play a full season there unless his offense forces his way to the bigs. We would also have to factor in who we have playing and if it wouild even be worth having him on the roster as a bench/platoon type player. I have a feeling that he will see some time in the bigs in 2013, but 2014 could be his chance. He turns 27 years old in August… The dude is older than me lol.
no doubt but that we have a weakish system now since bringing up so many youngsters in the last few years. Cyclical is often the norm for a team that wins pretty constantly and thus gets few high level draft picks. I also think that for a few years they went overrboard on the ‘high floor’ approach which usually means you end up with more guys who may make the bigs but few who are worth much even if they do.
Out of our top positional players prospects who will end up as big league players of any kind? Do we have a have a All Star in that group? A few regulars? Handful of bench guys? A few AAAA players?
#2 Christian Bethancourt 21 years old
#7 Joey Terdoslavich 24 years old
#9 Edward Salcedo 21 years old
#10 Nick Ahmed 22 years old
#11 Matt Lipka 20 years old
#12 Todd Cunningham 23 years old
#13 Brandon Drury 20 years old
#17 Kyle Kubitza 22 years old
#19 Tommy La Stella 23 years old
Va Braves — I see a couple of guys on that list as role players but none of em All-Stars at this point.
And when are we going to forget the overhype on the Bust of the 21st century Salcedo — he is yesterday;s news. He cannot field a postion, has a little power but that is all. Low OBP, he is not a top 10 prospect at all.
I could have told you that his first yr when he had 28 errors in 54 games and hit .197.
What kind of hitter will Christian Bethancourt be? He obviously has no power, I’m guessing he’s not very fast. Will his defense be enough to make him a starter?
Klaw (1:25 PM)
He has power, but he falls into the “can’t hit for power if you can’t hit” category. Defensively he was ready for the majors a year ago.
Well atleast we know Bethancourt will be a MLB player at some point. Starter or Backup depends on the bat, or hell possibly how the rest of the team is. Could always live with Gold Glove Catcher who’s bat 8th if we have enough offense else where.
Josh Hamilton, ranked second on MLBTR’s Top 50 Free Agent List, is said to be looking for a seven-year contract worth $175MM, tweets John Perrotto of Baseball Prospectus (h/t the Dallas Morning News).
While the asking price doesn’t match the length Albert Pujols received from the Angels last offseason, it would put Hamilton, represented by Moye Sports Associates, on par in terms of average annual salary at $25MM. Hamilton is widely regarded as the best free agent position player available, but he may have trouble finding a club with the financial flexibility to sign him. It hasn’t, however, stopped reports of teams like the Braves and the Brewers being intrigued by the possibility of signing the five-time All-Star.
The dude is nuts if he really thinks a team is gonna give that much…. And whoever is reporting that it’s not stopping the Braves from being interested is out of there mind. I’d bet my life savings we don’t come close to signing him and I really hope we don’t.
The most I’d give Hamilton is 3 years 60 million. Not saying the Braves should even offer that, just throwing the numbers out there if I had ample money like the RedSox or whatever. No way do I see the Braves paying anyone 20 million a season. Probably won’t happen until Jason Heyward’s 1st contract is up.
I have no idea, Its a bit frustrating to me. Most people act like baseball is not even a sport, they talk football 24/7/365. I used to really hate football. i still dont like it…
I would love to see a trimmed down Uggla, cutting back 50%+ on the weight training, doing a ton of stretching over the winter. I would love to see a trimmed down Francisco, who can get matched with an agent, or a hitting coach, or a mentor on the 25 man roster, who will explain some basics of situational hitting, pitch counts, and plate discipline. I would love for McCann’s rehab to give Gattis a chance to impress at the MLB level for 4 weeks, as backup catcher, backup LF, etc.
These are things already under our control–i.e., players already under contract. If these three guys contributed in 2013, all of this talk about who we will acquire could become moot, or at least secondary.
And when you consider that we have players and prospects to trade, and we will likely get an extra first rounder for Bourn, and we have a decent amount of cash on hand, you have to think things look pretty damn good for a team with our kind of payroll limitations. We need to look forward to 2013 with a lot of optimism.
To me eventually every team’s payroll is gonna have to go up. Owners are gonna have to spend more money. Salaries are going up every season it seems. Star players will all be making over 20 million a season very soon. Players who sign early contracts like Justin Upton and Andrew McCutchen, there next contract after that is gonna be the big 100+ million type deals with 20+ million a season. But will owners up the payroll? Or will we continue to see that process of once a player reaches a certain status that for sure there going to a different team because of money? Or will teams finally start keeping there own home grown star players after the ARB years and early contracts? With all the major contracts being handed out, and hell even the big contracts handed out to above average players and the amount of money….. By the time Jason Heyward is 27 or 28 after his 1st contract (Assuming the Braves get one done) if he has reached expectations and is the real deal 5 tool player blah blah blah… Will the Braves be able to keep him financially while still fielding a winning team.
How much more are star players gonna be signing for in 2016 and so on? When is 30 million a year gonna be the new norm for superstars, and when is 20 million a season gonna be the norm for a player of like Brian McCann, or even Nick Swisher or Andre Either type players in the future.
Football is #1 and continues to grow. I enjoy both baseball and football, but if you want to know why it has grown it’s all about the marketing of the game. I should know, as I have worked for both football and baseball factions
Trader Jack — I get that its about the marketing of the game & baseball has sold itself short in that regard.
The sport that has really shot itself in the foot time and time again is hockey. That is anothe story.
Baseball purists can still put MLB as their personal number 1. Its unfortunate the game has not really captured the 30 and under generation like it used to.
I have no idea how we recapture the yonger generation. Some of the junk the youth watch like UFC and X games I don’t get. I don;t get poker either.
I don’t like NASCAR but at least I can get how it appeals to a certain group of fans.
I find it hard to believe that FOX actually puts Soccer on at 4 every sunday. Would seem like a HUGE loss when you could just have another football game. How many people are seriously watching Soccer over the CBS Football Game LOL
Va Brave — right about your 7:21 post and it falls into my long term view that the payroll we are sort of hung up on (the 90 mil range) is going to be a bottom five payroll before long.
In ten yrs or so the way things are going, these owners will be paying 8 or 9 mil for replacement level (WAR of 0.0) players. Its not good. TV revenue is what drives the revenue of the games.
We got stuck in 2007’s dollars. Its going to cost us as fans
Even the Oakland’s of the world will be spending a humdred mil.
I mean I rather watch Reruns of Seinfeld or All in the Family or Married with Children and I could keep going and going instead of SOCCER…. I rather watch the weather channel or even just the news, hell even cooking shows would be better. I’d probably only watch Soccer if the only other option was C-Span…
There are alot of 4 oclock NFL games going on. Right now Steelers vs Giants is on CBS, while MIN vs SEA and TB vs OAK are not, but SOCCER is on FOX…. HAHA… Went from watching RG3 and the Skins vs CAM and the Panthers to flippin SOCCER, I bet 98% of viewers of the NFL game turned the channel when soccer came on LOL.
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN
A lot of surprise around baseball that SF didn’t make a qualifying offer to Angel Pagan, because he’s likely going to get a 4-year deal.
Yes, not a smart move by them, imo. Pagan is going to get more play because of it. I think four years, $44 million for Angel. I wouldn’t do it, though. Too rich.
Still like Denard Span. Sucks that he is a LHH, but he does handle LHP’s reasonably well and is a good defender in CF. Takes walks too.
I think the Red Sox might consider trading Ellsbury, but then you are in the same boat with a Boras client in CF ready to leave at seasons end.
That would be awesome wouldn’t it? What kind of average offensive production would you expect from him as time goes? I’m expecting him to struggle a little offensively in 2013. But of course he’ll likely be a gold glove winner
Buster wrote this morning about the Indians selling shop – makes a lot of sense, imo. Their farm system stinks aside from Lindor and they need a ton of pitching.
Asdrubal Cabrera, Shin-Soo Choo, Justin Masterson, Chris Perez all should be gone. Not sure I’d trade Carlos Sanchez or Vinny Pestano though.
I think the Red Sox might consider trading Ellsbury, but then you are in the same boat with a Boras client in CF ready to leave at seasons end.
Efrim — that is possible but they would be selling low. And, alleagedly they are having trouble with comming up with a deal for Cody Ross. He wants 3 yrs for 27 mil. That is a bit high, but not as far out of the ballpark as one might think. Ross is better than alot of what is out there.
No team is giving Josh Hamilton seven years, $175 million. I don’t care what recent revenues are or what TV deals have produced. That’s far too much risk for a player with his history – and I don’t even mean the chance of him falling back into the bad stuff. Moreso the beating his body has taken because of it.
Mere average to above average players are bringing in the bucks.
If Cody Ross wants 3 years 27 million no wonder Angel Pagan wants 4 years 40 million, really seems like alot of free agents would be disappointed in the offers but with so little out in free agency teams will be fighting over average regulars and overpaying.
Shane Victorino and Torii Hunter are both 1 year deal guys to me but I’m sure they get more…. lol
I do not see the braves trading for 1 year of Ellsbury unless there is more to the deal. Lester, Middlebrooks, someone else of value to us.
If the trade cost is not too high for Ellsbury he is not a bad option. He will have every motivation to have a big year and if he signs elsewhere, another draft pick.
Don’t see Boston moving him without significant return though unless they want to clear more salary
Cleveland Indians which is a cheap organization goes out and hires a expensive Francona to manage, kinda hard to believe they would gut the team and turn into the Houston Astro’s… I’d definitely trade away everyone, but if that was the plan why would I decide to bring in a expensive top tier manager? I would have went with younger and cheaper Sandy Alomar Jr, trade away any veterans with trade value and build the organization from the bottom up. Weird situation.
Ellsbury has had a career slowed by injuries and he is pumping 30.
Not a bad one yr option but health is always the big ????????????
He has had only one real outstanding yr that would merit big big $$$$$$$$$$$ and 2011 was an MVP caliber yr for him. He was good from late 07 to 09, but its all about health health and health.
Grade Sizemore was superstar material but health cut short was should have been a perennial superstar career, maybe even HOF potential. Shame.
Didn’t Ellsbury lead that Bosox clubhouse rebellion against Terry Francona? I get the sense that Ellsbury is something of a horse’s rear. I can’t imagine the Braves would want to import the guy, if so.
Jeff R — I do not know of any rebellion vs Terry Francona. And he was too injured and not in the lineup to have had anything to do with the Bobby Valentine insurgence.
I think the players loved Tito, but they fell completely apart in Sept of 11. Key injuries to Youklis and Clay Buchholz did not help. Lackey pitching hurt and ineffective all that yr hurt too.
Joker Phillips will not be back next season as Kentucky’s football coach. Athletic director Mitch Barnhart announced it at the end of a long open letter to fans on UK’s athletics website.
you people are funny in the way you like to exaggerate what others who disagree with you say. I did not read anybody who said Pagan was as good or as valuable as Prado
Jeff R — I do not know of any rebellion vs Terry Francona. And he was too injured and not in the lineup to have had anything to do with the Bobby Valentine insurgence.
Minnesota is a good match for the braves. They need pitching and we need outfielders. Just don’t see them moving willingham unless they get an offer they can’t refuse. They will move either span or revere for a pitcher. The braves could use either one for CF.
I do see the braves going for a bigger bat first and pushing for willingham and before they go to span/revere I expect them to look at other trade candidates such as Headley, Alex Gordon, etc. and see if one of them can be had.
Pagan stands out for his late season play but behind him not much difference between victorino, span, revere, Bourjos (if available)
The Angels did not offer to Hunter , that makes him more attractive too.
He could be a good short term left fielder while we see what happens with Gattis IMO
POZ “And since 1995? You ready for it? Twenty-one teams have won 100 games. Two have won the World Series. Two. The 1998 Yankees and the 2009 Yankees. Even more incredible … FOURTEEN of the 21 100-win teams did not even reach the World Series.”
The recent deals signed with ESPN, FOX and TBS totaled $12 billion and will pay MLB $1.5 billion annually from 2014 to 2021 — or $50 million per team. (More details here at the Biz of Baseball site.) The previous contracts with those three networks totaled $711.7 million annually — so baseball received a 111 percent annual increase. On top of that, consider MLB Network revenue, MLB Advanced Media revenue and local media deals that are skyrocketing in many markets, and you realize the baseball business product is performing exceptionally well.
Jeff R — I think you might be thinking of the rebellion vs Bobby Valentine & the two alleged principles behind that one were Adrian Gonzalez and Dustin Pedroia.
I do not know about Ellsbury.
The players were sad to see the end of the Tito era according to what I know. Of couse, I have no inside info so can always be wrong.
that is crap Disgusted. Just because you refuse to accept any of it does not mean that those who recognize its importance think it is the only important part
Concerning prospects and their age, Uggla didn’t make it to the majors until he was 26 years old, and never played AAA. If Gattis makes it to the majors this year, he’ll have made it at age 26, even with four years out of baseball. As DOB stated, he is very much a prospect now.
5,183 comments Add your comment
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
5:15 pm
Hope the Colts hold on — never liked the Dolphins
Always a good day when they lose.
nolie
November 4th, 2012
5:16 pm
if you can’t see that there is a big difference between hitting 30 homers in Coors and hitting 30 homers in a pitchers park,you will never have a true grasp of the game man
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
5:18 pm
Well maybe we could sign Pagan for LF or hell throw his average defense in CF, and trade Prado for best offer and we’ll still be a just as good team after the moves are made. Of course I’m just being sarcastic. But I’m gonna let loose now, after the flat out pathetic effort I just watched.
jer
November 4th, 2012
5:39 pm
Gattis could provide the team with a bonus if he makes the team as left-fielder and can an adequate catcher. With a third catcher in the lineup, both he and the regular backup (Ross I assume) could be used as pinch hitters without worrying about having a backup available in case McCann got injured.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
5:44 pm
I think with McCann missing April, the Braves need to see Gattis alot in spring training and possibly being on the 25 man roster for a taste of the bigs. Pretty sad that a 26 year old year old is our best offense prospect, if you can even call him that…
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
5:47 pm
But at his age he might be ready to contribute on a part time basis, I mean realistically most see him as a possible bench player at best anyways. They really need to draft some offensive talent.
nolie
November 4th, 2012
5:59 pm
it is hard to rate Gattis because of his circumstances. Chronologically he was 25, but baseball experience age was more like 21 or 22, neither age is prolly an accurate description .so I kinda split the difference and think of him as a 23-24 YO approaching AAA for the first time
nolie
November 4th, 2012
6:00 pm
I think he needs to play regularly and not sit on the bench most of the time in Atlanta at this point still
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:05 pm
Our 2010 draft is concerning.
2nd round, Cunningham has put up solid numbers, but many believe he’s a 4th Outfielder at best at the big league level so far, plus he’s already 23 years old and basically not even a option for CF for 2013. So that’s pretty telling as well. (Rated our 12th best prospect)
1st rounder, Lipka is 3 years younger and very far away. But we’d really like to see some progress. Great athletic ability with blazing speed, suffered a hamstring injury this past season. Plenty of time for him. (Rated our 11th best prospect)
6th rounder, Joey Terdo… Believed by many to be over hyped. 24 years old killing AA pitching. Decided to start him in AAA for 2011 season and was completely overmatched before getting sent back down. (Rated our 7th Best Prospect)
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:09 pm
nolie
Gattis would probably be best suited to start in AAA and play a full season there unless his offense forces his way to the bigs. We would also have to factor in who we have playing and if it wouild even be worth having him on the roster as a bench/platoon type player. I have a feeling that he will see some time in the bigs in 2013, but 2014 could be his chance. He turns 27 years old in August… The dude is older than me lol.
nolie
November 4th, 2012
6:11 pm
no doubt but that we have a weakish system now since bringing up so many youngsters in the last few years. Cyclical is often the norm for a team that wins pretty constantly and thus gets few high level draft picks. I also think that for a few years they went overrboard on the ‘high floor’ approach which usually means you end up with more guys who may make the bigs but few who are worth much even if they do.
nolie
November 4th, 2012
6:14 pm
maybe he will tear up AAA and learn to play second…..
nolie
November 4th, 2012
6:16 pm
BAD DS1. BAD BAD!!!!
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:18 pm
Out of our top positional players prospects who will end up as big league players of any kind? Do we have a have a All Star in that group? A few regulars? Handful of bench guys? A few AAAA players?
#2 Christian Bethancourt 21 years old
#7 Joey Terdoslavich 24 years old
#9 Edward Salcedo 21 years old
#10 Nick Ahmed 22 years old
#11 Matt Lipka 20 years old
#12 Todd Cunningham 23 years old
#13 Brandon Drury 20 years old
#17 Kyle Kubitza 22 years old
#19 Tommy La Stella 23 years old
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:19 pm
Too me, if your not challenging for a MLB spot by 23 years old your not much of a prospect.
nolie
November 4th, 2012
6:22 pm
I think that is kinda unrealistic, many, perhaps even most, players make the bigs around 24 or 25
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:24 pm
Julio Teheran is rated the 10th best RH pitching prospect. (24th Overall)
Christian Bethancourt is rated the 4th best Catcher prospect (53rd overall)
That’s it for the top 10 at each position and top 100 overall.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
6:26 pm
Va Braves — I see a couple of guys on that list as role players but none of em All-Stars at this point.
And when are we going to forget the overhype on the Bust of the 21st century Salcedo — he is yesterday;s news. He cannot field a postion, has a little power but that is all. Low OBP, he is not a top 10 prospect at all.
I could have told you that his first yr when he had 28 errors in 54 games and hit .197.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
6:28 pm
Bethancouts is a future BU catcher and Lipka and Cunningham are 4th OF guys.
The reast of em — bust. Terdo stinks.
They better get the drafts right soon cause that is what will keep em relevant.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
6:29 pm
If Teheran is such hot stuff why has he flopped in every chance he has had with the big club in both ST and his cup of coffee.
Delgado is better. There is hope for Delgado — none for Teheran
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:31 pm
nolie
True, if your in the bigs between 19-22 you have some massive talent, 23-25 is more ideal. But still regardless we have a rather bad farm system.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
6:37 pm
If you are a good player you generally get a regular major league job between ages 24 and 26.
I am not talking star types, I am talking about establishing yourself as a good MLB player.
Some guys are late bloomers like Willingham and Werth, but mid 20’s is about the time you see something.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:38 pm
Keith Law on Christian Bethancourt.
Mitch (NC)
What kind of hitter will Christian Bethancourt be? He obviously has no power, I’m guessing he’s not very fast. Will his defense be enough to make him a starter?
Klaw (1:25 PM)
He has power, but he falls into the “can’t hit for power if you can’t hit” category. Defensively he was ready for the majors a year ago.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
6:39 pm
Don’t you just get sick of the NY Football Giants.
I wish someone would knock out that hot dog Victor Cruz. Most irritating player in the NFL.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:40 pm
Well atleast we know Bethancourt will be a MLB player at some point. Starter or Backup depends on the bat, or hell possibly how the rest of the team is. Could always live with Gold Glove Catcher who’s bat 8th if we have enough offense else where.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
6:41 pm
Perhaps Bethancourt can be a Gerald Laird type. If he can ever learn to hit a little.
I hope he gets better.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:44 pm
Every positional player prospect we have hitting is the question mark, we have some good defensive potential though, except for Salcedo.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
6:47 pm
Va Brave — Its good to have pitching and good defensive players in the system but the org has to do better with the hitting prospects.
Its gonna be a little while before we see another Heyward and Freeman around here.
At least we can enjoy them for a little while longer.
Those refs are calling this game in favor of the NYG. They must be on Mara’s payroll.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
6:49 pm
Salcedo — well, if I want to keep the language clean I have to pass on a comment.
Wow — what in the blazing whatever did they ever see in him. FO mistake. Release him.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
6:55 pm
After the Redskins worthless effort today I don’t even wanna watch anymore football for 2 weeks. Just waiting for Walking Dead
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
7:01 pm
I just cannot see why the country has replaced football over baseball as the National pasttime.
Baseball is the king of all sports — the best game there is and will always be.
And I like football.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:09 pm
Josh Hamilton, ranked second on MLBTR’s Top 50 Free Agent List, is said to be looking for a seven-year contract worth $175MM, tweets John Perrotto of Baseball Prospectus (h/t the Dallas Morning News).
While the asking price doesn’t match the length Albert Pujols received from the Angels last offseason, it would put Hamilton, represented by Moye Sports Associates, on par in terms of average annual salary at $25MM. Hamilton is widely regarded as the best free agent position player available, but he may have trouble finding a club with the financial flexibility to sign him. It hasn’t, however, stopped reports of teams like the Braves and the Brewers being intrigued by the possibility of signing the five-time All-Star.
The dude is nuts if he really thinks a team is gonna give that much…. And whoever is reporting that it’s not stopping the Braves from being interested is out of there mind. I’d bet my life savings we don’t come close to signing him and I really hope we don’t.
The most I’d give Hamilton is 3 years 60 million. Not saying the Braves should even offer that, just throwing the numbers out there if I had ample money like the RedSox or whatever. No way do I see the Braves paying anyone 20 million a season. Probably won’t happen until Jason Heyward’s 1st contract is up.
Caleb
November 4th, 2012
7:09 pm
I have no idea, Its a bit frustrating to me. Most people act like baseball is not even a sport, they talk football 24/7/365. I used to really hate football. i still dont like it…
old man
November 4th, 2012
7:14 pm
I would love to see a trimmed down Uggla, cutting back 50%+ on the weight training, doing a ton of stretching over the winter. I would love to see a trimmed down Francisco, who can get matched with an agent, or a hitting coach, or a mentor on the 25 man roster, who will explain some basics of situational hitting, pitch counts, and plate discipline. I would love for McCann’s rehab to give Gattis a chance to impress at the MLB level for 4 weeks, as backup catcher, backup LF, etc.
These are things already under our control–i.e., players already under contract. If these three guys contributed in 2013, all of this talk about who we will acquire could become moot, or at least secondary.
And when you consider that we have players and prospects to trade, and we will likely get an extra first rounder for Bourn, and we have a decent amount of cash on hand, you have to think things look pretty damn good for a team with our kind of payroll limitations. We need to look forward to 2013 with a lot of optimism.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:21 pm
To me eventually every team’s payroll is gonna have to go up. Owners are gonna have to spend more money. Salaries are going up every season it seems. Star players will all be making over 20 million a season very soon. Players who sign early contracts like Justin Upton and Andrew McCutchen, there next contract after that is gonna be the big 100+ million type deals with 20+ million a season. But will owners up the payroll? Or will we continue to see that process of once a player reaches a certain status that for sure there going to a different team because of money? Or will teams finally start keeping there own home grown star players after the ARB years and early contracts? With all the major contracts being handed out, and hell even the big contracts handed out to above average players and the amount of money….. By the time Jason Heyward is 27 or 28 after his 1st contract (Assuming the Braves get one done) if he has reached expectations and is the real deal 5 tool player blah blah blah… Will the Braves be able to keep him financially while still fielding a winning team.
How much more are star players gonna be signing for in 2016 and so on? When is 30 million a year gonna be the new norm for superstars, and when is 20 million a season gonna be the norm for a player of like Brian McCann, or even Nick Swisher or Andre Either type players in the future.
Trader Jack
November 4th, 2012
7:22 pm
Disgusted
Football is #1 and continues to grow. I enjoy both baseball and football, but if you want to know why it has grown it’s all about the marketing of the game. I should know, as I have worked for both football and baseball factions
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
7:30 pm
Trader Jack — I get that its about the marketing of the game & baseball has sold itself short in that regard.
The sport that has really shot itself in the foot time and time again is hockey. That is anothe story.
Baseball purists can still put MLB as their personal number 1. Its unfortunate the game has not really captured the 30 and under generation like it used to.
I have no idea how we recapture the yonger generation. Some of the junk the youth watch like UFC and X games I don’t get. I don;t get poker either.
I don’t like NASCAR but at least I can get how it appeals to a certain group of fans.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:32 pm
I find it hard to believe that FOX actually puts Soccer on at 4 every sunday. Would seem like a HUGE loss when you could just have another football game. How many people are seriously watching Soccer over the CBS Football Game LOL
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
7:33 pm
Va Brave — right about your 7:21 post and it falls into my long term view that the payroll we are sort of hung up on (the 90 mil range) is going to be a bottom five payroll before long.
In ten yrs or so the way things are going, these owners will be paying 8 or 9 mil for replacement level (WAR of 0.0) players. Its not good. TV revenue is what drives the revenue of the games.
We got stuck in 2007’s dollars. Its going to cost us as fans
Even the Oakland’s of the world will be spending a humdred mil.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
7:36 pm
I don;t get the soccer either but what else do you put on. Infomercials??? B-Movies?????
At least Soccer is a sport unlike poker or cheerleading competioions or spelling bees. And the Little League WS, that is ridiculous.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:37 pm
I mean I rather watch Reruns of Seinfeld or All in the Family or Married with Children and I could keep going and going instead of SOCCER…. I rather watch the weather channel or even just the news, hell even cooking shows would be better. I’d probably only watch Soccer if the only other option was C-Span…
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:40 pm
There are alot of 4 oclock NFL games going on. Right now Steelers vs Giants is on CBS, while MIN vs SEA and TB vs OAK are not, but SOCCER is on FOX…. HAHA… Went from watching RG3 and the Skins vs CAM and the Panthers to flippin SOCCER, I bet 98% of viewers of the NFL game turned the channel when soccer came on LOL.
smallmouth6
November 4th, 2012
7:43 pm
The Braves need a center fielder that can play both halves of the season. 13 million to Bourne is enough.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:47 pm
I’d love to see Bourn accept the qualifying offer. But that’s a dream.
Efrim
November 4th, 2012
7:49 pm
Our 2010 draft did produce Andrelton Simmons – who is probably going to be a star, so that’s pretty good in itself.
Efrim
November 4th, 2012
7:52 pm
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN
A lot of surprise around baseball that SF didn’t make a qualifying offer to Angel Pagan, because he’s likely going to get a 4-year deal.
Yes, not a smart move by them, imo. Pagan is going to get more play because of it. I think four years, $44 million for Angel. I wouldn’t do it, though. Too rich.
Still like Denard Span. Sucks that he is a LHH, but he does handle LHP’s reasonably well and is a good defender in CF. Takes walks too.
I think the Red Sox might consider trading Ellsbury, but then you are in the same boat with a Boras client in CF ready to leave at seasons end.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:53 pm
Efrim
That would be awesome wouldn’t it? What kind of average offensive production would you expect from him as time goes? I’m expecting him to struggle a little offensively in 2013. But of course he’ll likely be a gold glove winner
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:54 pm
Efrim
I agree about the 4 year nonsense with Angel Pagan.
Efrim
November 4th, 2012
7:55 pm
Buster wrote this morning about the Indians selling shop – makes a lot of sense, imo. Their farm system stinks aside from Lindor and they need a ton of pitching.
Asdrubal Cabrera, Shin-Soo Choo, Justin Masterson, Chris Perez all should be gone. Not sure I’d trade Carlos Sanchez or Vinny Pestano though.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
7:56 pm
Come on Va Brave — Soccer is not THAT bad. Oh well, you do not like soccer and guess we can agree to disagree.
Good to see Eli get sacked. Need Rothliesberger to have a good game for fantasy football reasons.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
7:58 pm
I think the Red Sox might consider trading Ellsbury, but then you are in the same boat with a Boras client in CF ready to leave at seasons end.
Efrim — that is possible but they would be selling low. And, alleagedly they are having trouble with comming up with a deal for Cody Ross. He wants 3 yrs for 27 mil. That is a bit high, but not as far out of the ballpark as one might think. Ross is better than alot of what is out there.
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
7:58 pm
I actually just read that blog, I decided to get ESPN Insider last night.
Efrim
November 4th, 2012
8:00 pm
No team is giving Josh Hamilton seven years, $175 million. I don’t care what recent revenues are or what TV deals have produced. That’s far too much risk for a player with his history – and I don’t even mean the chance of him falling back into the bad stuff. Moreso the beating his body has taken because of it.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
8:00 pm
Who is undisciplined enough to give Pagan 4 yrs for 44??????
Not saying he wontget it but who is gonna go that far for Pagan.
And a hundred mil for Bourn — maybe some one will go dum dum but who????? The Nats???? I dont know about them going a hundred mil for 5.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
8:02 pm
Cleveland is in bad shape — selling every decent player they have low and no farm system — Not good for them.
At least they play in the AL Central — wish the Braves were in there.
Trader Jack
November 4th, 2012
8:03 pm
Efrim
Interesting about the Indians. I’d be surprised with a fire sale as Francona is not a manager who is there to work from the bottom up
Washington Nationals Pitchers
November 4th, 2012
8:03 pm
Oh, no! Schafer!? That Frank Wren has gone and done it again! Signing a one man offensive machine like Schafer.
Well there goes our ERA for 2013.
brian
November 4th, 2012
8:05 pm
Enjoyed reading posts above. Some thoughts…
KC is not trading Myers
There is hope for the young Teheran, especially if he builds on his finish last year and improves that new slider
Pagan did himself well this fall. He will get at least a 3 year contract for $10+ million per year. It may take the 4th year to sign him
No way no matter what my payroll is would I give Hamilton a 7year $175 million contract
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
8:05 pm
Mere average to above average players are bringing in the bucks.
If Cody Ross wants 3 years 27 million no wonder Angel Pagan wants 4 years 40 million, really seems like alot of free agents would be disappointed in the offers but with so little out in free agency teams will be fighting over average regulars and overpaying.
Shane Victorino and Torii Hunter are both 1 year deal guys to me but I’m sure they get more…. lol
brian
November 4th, 2012
8:09 pm
I do not see the braves trading for 1 year of Ellsbury unless there is more to the deal. Lester, Middlebrooks, someone else of value to us.
If the trade cost is not too high for Ellsbury he is not a bad option. He will have every motivation to have a big year and if he signs elsewhere, another draft pick.
Don’t see Boston moving him without significant return though unless they want to clear more salary
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
8:11 pm
Cleveland Indians which is a cheap organization goes out and hires a expensive Francona to manage, kinda hard to believe they would gut the team and turn into the Houston Astro’s… I’d definitely trade away everyone, but if that was the plan why would I decide to bring in a expensive top tier manager? I would have went with younger and cheaper Sandy Alomar Jr, trade away any veterans with trade value and build the organization from the bottom up. Weird situation.
Jeff R
November 4th, 2012
8:25 pm
There are prospects who never scratch a top 100 list but go on to solid major league careers. Who ranked Prado high, for instance?
I like Ahmed, Bethancourt, and Cunningham. I certainly think the former two have the potential to be big league starters and solid contributors.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
8:31 pm
Ellsbury has had a career slowed by injuries and he is pumping 30.
Not a bad one yr option but health is always the big ????????????
He has had only one real outstanding yr that would merit big big $$$$$$$$$$$ and 2011 was an MVP caliber yr for him. He was good from late 07 to 09, but its all about health health and health.
Grade Sizemore was superstar material but health cut short was should have been a perennial superstar career, maybe even HOF potential. Shame.
Injuries suck.
Jeff R
November 4th, 2012
8:33 pm
Didn’t Ellsbury lead that Bosox clubhouse rebellion against Terry Francona? I get the sense that Ellsbury is something of a horse’s rear. I can’t imagine the Braves would want to import the guy, if so.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
8:34 pm
Jeff R @ 8:25;
All that is true. And there are guys like Brandon Wood who was highly ranked who just busted.
Casey Kotchman was a top 5 and he was journeyman type.
And what about Luke Hochevar — wow!!!!! Bad second overall pick.
And maybe a Salcedo or Terdo can come around. Its a big work in progress though.
ncgary
November 4th, 2012
8:34 pm
whats morse contract with the nats? is he signed
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
8:37 pm
Jeff R — I do not know of any rebellion vs Terry Francona. And he was too injured and not in the lineup to have had anything to do with the Bobby Valentine insurgence.
I think the players loved Tito, but they fell completely apart in Sept of 11. Key injuries to Youklis and Clay Buchholz did not help. Lackey pitching hurt and ineffective all that yr hurt too.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
8:39 pm
You know, thinking of Prado he was really thought of being more of a utility INF type.
Turned out to be better than anyone could imagine. And he has more power than we thought.
Every yr he hits 10-12 HRS and has a high number of doubles. Doubles are underrated.
Couch Tater
November 4th, 2012
8:41 pm
First domino.
Joker Phillips will not be back next season as Kentucky’s football coach. Athletic director Mitch Barnhart announced it at the end of a long open letter to fans on UK’s athletics website.
The rest…
http://blogs.courier-journal.com/ukbeat/2012/11/04/joker-phillips-on-his-firing/
VaBravesFan
November 4th, 2012
8:43 pm
Disgusted
Yet some people think that Angel Pagan is just as valuable or as good as Martin Prado.
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
8:50 pm
Turned out to be better than anyone could imagine. @Disgusted
nolie called him as a good .750+ starter while he was still in AAA IIRC
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
8:51 pm
you people are funny in the way you like to exaggerate what others who disagree with you say. I did not read anybody who said Pagan was as good or as valuable as Prado
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
8:59 pm
It seems like Wren is usually pretty quick to get his first deal of the winter done.
Maybe we will get a present this week
Jeff R
November 4th, 2012
9:00 pm
Jeff R — I do not know of any rebellion vs Terry Francona. And he was too injured and not in the lineup to have had anything to do with the Bobby Valentine insurgence.
Maybe I’m wrong about Ellsbury.
BosnianBaller
November 4th, 2012
9:02 pm
Do Theran and Delgado have those minor league options left where we can send them up to the big leagues and back to the minors if need be?
brian
November 4th, 2012
9:02 pm
Minnesota is a good match for the braves. They need pitching and we need outfielders. Just don’t see them moving willingham unless they get an offer they can’t refuse. They will move either span or revere for a pitcher. The braves could use either one for CF.
I do see the braves going for a bigger bat first and pushing for willingham and before they go to span/revere I expect them to look at other trade candidates such as Headley, Alex Gordon, etc. and see if one of them can be had.
Pagan stands out for his late season play but behind him not much difference between victorino, span, revere, Bourjos (if available)
brian
November 4th, 2012
9:04 pm
Pagan is certainly more appealing as a free agent since he does not cost us our 1st round draft pick
brian
November 4th, 2012
9:04 pm
Yes Bosnian
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:05 pm
I am pretty sure they both have options left, Bosnian
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:07 pm
yes but that will make him more appealing to other teams too and might drive his cost higher if a bidding war ensues
abeeeewright
November 4th, 2012
9:09 pm
Wren made an offer to Bourn. That’s some activity.
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:11 pm
yes. that is better than when we all knew that Drew and Shef would leave for big contracts but they refused to offer to them.
Mixxo
November 4th, 2012
9:12 pm
Soph…
Lets get it cranked up. 8 min. till KO.
Lets GO!
abeeeewright
November 4th, 2012
9:13 pm
Isn’t the time for teams to be able to negotiate for FAs coming up soon.
If Wren is principally going to fill needs through FA, then he’ll act quick.
I also bet he’s got offers to Ross and Johnson right now.
Can’t make ‘em sign before they’re ready.
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:17 pm
I think they can negotiate now but I might be wrong. I don’t know if they changed the cut-off date with your own players this year
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:26 pm
The Angels did not offer to Hunter , that makes him more attractive too.
He could be a good short term left fielder while we see what happens with Gattis IMO
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:34 pm
POZ “And since 1995? You ready for it? Twenty-one teams have won 100 games. Two have won the World Series. Two. The 1998 Yankees and the 2009 Yankees. Even more incredible … FOURTEEN of the 21 100-win teams did not even reach the World Series.”
Mixxo
November 4th, 2012
9:38 pm
The ‘national stage’ thing is rearing it’s ugly head early tonight.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
9:45 pm
Sure hate it that Marlon Brown’s UGA career is over due to injury.
WIsh the kid well.
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:48 pm
The recent deals signed with ESPN, FOX and TBS totaled $12 billion and will pay MLB $1.5 billion annually from 2014 to 2021 — or $50 million per team. (More details here at the Biz of Baseball site.) The previous contracts with those three networks totaled $711.7 million annually — so baseball received a 111 percent annual increase. On top of that, consider MLB Network revenue, MLB Advanced Media revenue and local media deals that are skyrocketing in many markets, and you realize the baseball business product is performing exceptionally well.
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:50 pm
LM getting 50 mil every year from new contracts
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
9:50 pm
Va Brave — on the Pagen/Prado thing that is those who think that OPS and WAR is the end all and be all.
Prado’s versitility is something you do not measure in numbers.
I hope that the Redskins do build around RG III, it would be a shame for a talent like that to waste out.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
9:50 pm
Matt Bryant deserves to be Booed. Cut the BUMB.
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
9:53 pm
Jeff R — I think you might be thinking of the rebellion vs Bobby Valentine & the two alleged principles behind that one were Adrian Gonzalez and Dustin Pedroia.
I do not know about Ellsbury.
The players were sad to see the end of the Tito era according to what I know. Of couse, I have no inside info so can always be wrong.
Only flag on Ellsbury is injuries.
Half Empty
November 4th, 2012
9:54 pm
that is crap Disgusted. Just because you refuse to accept any of it does not mean that those who recognize its importance think it is the only important part
Disgusted
November 4th, 2012
9:56 pm
Brian — Agree the Twins are a match for us but as for other trade candidates, cannot see SD moving Headley with that new ownership.
The new owners will not want to alienate their fans so quickly. I don;t think. SD fans were lucky to rid of that Moores guy.
Mixxo
November 4th, 2012
10:01 pm
Nevermind Soph, this game was over 10 minutes in.
7-1……..here we come.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
November 4th, 2012
10:18 pm
Tim Dierkes predicted that Shane Victorino would sign with our Bravos, and I agree with him.
Mixxo
November 4th, 2012
10:23 pm
I’ve been wanting Victorino on this team for years (much to the chagrin of many fellow bloggers.) lol
Guy might have too much ‘want’ for this squad though. Might intimidate the rest of the sheep. idk
Bob the Blogger
November 4th, 2012
10:24 pm
Concerning prospects and their age, Uggla didn’t make it to the majors until he was 26 years old, and never played AAA. If Gattis makes it to the majors this year, he’ll have made it at age 26, even with four years out of baseball. As DOB stated, he is very much a prospect now.