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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
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P-Town Brave ©
November 1st, 2012
1:10 pm
DS1-
I’m also like a walking wonder inside one of those TSA body scan machines?
“What is that sir”
“Oh that….its another pin or screw….I have a few dozen more scattered throughout my body”
keyLargo
November 1st, 2012
1:10 pm
A little info on Perez -
http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/pennsylvania/police-ex-yankee-pascual-perez-killed-in-home/nStJN/
Enquiring Minds Want To Know
November 1st, 2012
1:11 pm
ANY time you go to the FA ranks, you will ALWAYS overpay
Yes, my point exactly. Why do it? In New York, I guess its expected and necessary, but if it was effective, then why don’t the Yankees win the WS every year?
And yes, although I think Wren does a good job (as much as any of us can tell, being on the outside looking in), I do think he panicked with Lowe. He didn’t want to give that 4th year, but he didn’t stick to his guns. Turned out to be a $10MM mistake.
George_George
November 1st, 2012
1:18 pm
Good day all
BOURN and most ballplayers are so greedy. They are way overpaid. OH for the good old days before FREE AGENGY when owners owned players contracts till they retired. It was much better for the fans because you got to know the players on your team much better, there was much less moveing players from team to team, it was only done by trade. If your team was good it stayed good for years, Now days you are lucky if half your 25 man roster comes back the next year.
Memphis
November 1st, 2012
1:20 pm
Or we coul move Freddie Freeman to LF, and sign FA 1B Adam Laroche………………..kidding
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
1:20 pm
But still not a wise way to operate on the available free agents, imo.
Perhaps not, especially as an operating principle. But you also cannot be closed to the idea, as an operating principle.
I doubt that Bourn is the guy that would make you say that “we just acquired the pennant”, but there might be that guy, sometime, and I would hang the cost and pull the trigger on that guy.
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:21 pm
ANY time you go to the FA ranks, you will ALWAYS overpay
I disagree with this statement. I think that you always end up paying EXACTLY the market price…future performance dictates whether or not that price was an overpay or a bargin. For instance, one of the guys we’ve been hearing the Braves might trade for (Willingham) was signed last offseason by the Twins as a free agent. At a price of $7 million a year for 3 years, that deal appears to be quite the bargin (realizing that there are still 2 years of uncertainty left).
I do think it’s true that when going after the upper tier of free agents teams are more likely than not to “overpay” for performance, because they are paying those players based on past performance, and they are very unlikely to improve upon it.
Historically, the best free-agent deals tend to be those for players who had a poor previous season, either due to injury or performance, who are willing to take less money in order to re-establish their value on the market. These deals also tend to be the ones with the greatest risk, which is why those players don’t command as much money.
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
1:23 pm
when owners owned players contracts till they retired. It was much better for the fans
Yeah, so what if it sucked for the players, LOL? Serfdom worked for the Middle Ages, dint it?
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:25 pm
Or we coul move Freddie Freeman to LF, and sign FA 1B Adam Laroche………………..kidding
I’d sooner play FF at 3b than LF. At least his arm would play up a bit….
Gary O.
November 1st, 2012
1:25 pm
I can see Bourn/Boras asking for 6 years, $96 mil. But (imo) he will probably end up with 5 years, $70 – $80 mil.
DS1
November 1st, 2012
1:26 pm
P-town
I think you might be onto something. Get Soriano and 25 million from the Cubbies for a Spruill. Get Wells and about 32 million from the Angels for another low minors prospect. Plug them into CF and LF and hope for the best…………….
Your only out 20 million for 2 years for both guys. If one of them does well, then it’s a good deal. If they both do well, then you win. If neither does well……………… well we haven’t really been deep into the playoffs lately anyway!
Trader Jack
November 1st, 2012
1:26 pm
RE: Gold Glove Awards
Interesting to note that 10 out of the 18 winners were Rawlings staff advisory members
Efrim
November 1st, 2012
1:27 pm
Jason (St Louis)
So by all accounts several teams are flush with cash and at the same time the next two free agent classes are very weak. On top of that you can’t spend more in the draft or in the international market. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Klaw (1:23 PM)
Are you kidding me? This is going to be *hilarious*.
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:28 pm
when owners owned players contracts till they retired. It was much better for the fans
I don’t know about the fans, but it was certainly much better for the owners. How dare these millionaires expect to be paid higher contracts by these billionaires!
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
1:28 pm
I’d sooner play FF at 3b than LF. At least his arm would play up a bit….
Freeman probably has the best, or second-best (behind Simmons), arm on the club. Might be kinda fun to see him coming in on bunts up the line, though.
Shaun
November 1st, 2012
1:29 pm
DS1, Well, I don’t know that there are players on this year’s free agent market that would get the Red Sox back to where they want to be. So in order to get back there, I think this is the strategy that they have to employ.
Plus they have a solid enough core. They get some career years out of some veterans that they are able to acquire with short-term deals, maybe they contend.
I think this offseason the Red Sox will approach things as they did prior to the 2003 season, when they acquired guys like David Ortiz, Bill Mueller, Todd Walker, Kevin Millar, Jeremy Giambi, Mike Timlin, Brandon Lyon, Byung-Hyun Kim. I think they’ll try to load up on those types of solid yet relatively inexpensive players. Of course their core is not as great as it was in 2003. In 2003 Manny, Nomar and Pedro were all at or near their peaks.
Efrim
November 1st, 2012
1:30 pm
I doubt that Bourn is the guy that would make you say that “we just acquired the pennant”, but there might be that guy, sometime, and I would hang the cost and pull the trigger on that guy.
Oh, I agree with that. But unfortunately, I’m not seeing that guy in this free agent class, the next free agent class and perhaps not even the one after.
Teams just simply aren’t letting even above average position players hit the free agent market on their sunny side of 30 and the pitchers are breaking down worse than ever – making them less attractive.
Efrim
November 1st, 2012
1:31 pm
See now, Keith Law doesn’t really hate the Braves……
Mike (San Diego)
You’re a GM and you get to choose from any of the NL East’s crop of RFs. Who do you take? Heyward, Stanton, or Harper?
Klaw (1:24 PM)
Heyward. Best combination of current production (offense and defense) and future potential.
But he may value defense more than most everyone here….except Shaun…..and probably me.
DS1
November 1st, 2012
1:33 pm
RC
I see your point. Maybe I should have said that MOST of the time you overpay. And it comes down to a supply/demand situation. Also, in getting Lowe for 15 million for 4 years, you did NOT give up any current players from your roster, so that has to be factored in too.
phil
November 1st, 2012
1:33 pm
Well, we’ve known all along that Boras would never be back….Hardly surprised by this “news”.
Let whatever team of idiots thinks he’s worth it have him. Yes, he’ll hit .550 against us and kick our teeth in, but so be it.
And overpaid, underpaid, paid just right? That kind of thing will always be hindsight in any profession where compensation is guaranteed up front for a job yet to be done.
CB
November 1st, 2012
1:33 pm
I was kind of thinking of Simmons trying to play between Uggla and FF. Man ought to win 2 GG a year for that.
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
1:33 pm
See now, Keith Law doesn’t really hate the Braves
His Heyward man-crush overrode the hate, momentarily. He’ll be right back to hate-mode by the next question.
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
1:33 pm
ncscoots- but there might be that guy, sometime, and I would hang the cost and pull the trigger on that guy.
This just underscores how difficult the job of general manager is. The Angels were reasonably close to being a playoff team in 2011 with an 86-66 record and finishing second to the Rangers. They then pull the trigger and land big free agents in the offseason (Pujols and Wilson), and add Greinke mid season. Look what happens as a result. They improve a meager three games to 89-73 in the standings and finish third.
Despite this extreme example, I agree with you ncscoots
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
1:34 pm
I was kind of thinking of Simmons trying to play between Uggla and FF. Man ought to win 2 GG a year for that.
He’d stay tuckered, and that’s a fact.
Efrim
November 1st, 2012
1:35 pm
Mitch (NC)
What kind of hitter will Christian Bethancourt be? He obviously has no power, I’m guessing he’s not very fast. Will his defense be enough to make him a starter?
Klaw (1:25 PM)
He has power, but he falls into the “can’t hit for power if you can’t hit” category. Defensively he was ready for the majors a year ago.
I haven’t seen him, but I haven’t gotten then sense that Bethancourt has fine tuned the other aspects of catching to make him ready for the majors. Certainly not a year ago. He and Salcedo need to make some progress next year. Otherwise our top position prospect may just well be Evan “the White Horse”(is that it? Something White?) Gattis……..
usnavyvolfaninva
November 1st, 2012
1:35 pm
Sad news about Pascual Perez.
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
1:35 pm
Of course, I meant 86-76
George_George
November 1st, 2012
1:35 pm
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
1:23 pm
when owners owned players contracts till they retired. It was much better for the fans
Yeah, so what if it sucked for the players, LOL? Serfdom worked for the Middle Ages, dint it?
*********************
But scoots, I remember early 1950s DUKE SNIDER had a great year and had to hold out to get $35,000 Now a rookie [not even a good rookie] gets $450,000 his first year, even with inflation that is OVERPAID.
DS1
November 1st, 2012
1:39 pm
phil
Yeah, and Boras is a terrible CF’er anyway.
phil
November 1st, 2012
1:39 pm
At what point will we stop hearing about Heyward’s “future potential”?
35 seems about right.
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
1:40 pm
George_George – I believe Billy Joel once said “the good ole days weren’t always good . . . And tomorrow ain’t as bad as it seems.”
phil
November 1st, 2012
1:41 pm
Mac can’t hit anymore either….
Bring up Betancourt now!!
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
1:41 pm
Despite this extreme example
Yes, the unspoken part of “we just acquired the pennant” is “…if he doesn’t blow his ACL and Player B’s wife doesn’t shoot him before the All-Star break.” Or some other set of circumstances occurs that might conspire to derail the season, or whatever. All a team can do is expect the normal bumps in the road, plan for them, and go to war. The unexpected problems, by their nature, cannot be planned for nor should they be part of the accounting.
CB
November 1st, 2012
1:41 pm
DS1,I did hear Boras was a switch hitter.
DS1
November 1st, 2012
1:42 pm
CB
Are you talking about his sexual orientation…………
kenhotlanta
November 1st, 2012
1:43 pm
Couch Tater: Are you a fan of Treme? I think it’s an excellent show with great music and an interesting story. I like how they incorporate real musicians and older stars, such as last week with a feeble Fats Domino who can still sing and a very healthy Irma Thomas.
DS1
November 1st, 2012
1:45 pm
If I’m FW, I’d still have my finger on the pulse in San Diego and NYC. If either Headley or Wright could be acquired, that would be my firstest choice. Then plug Bourjos or any other good fielding player into CF and call it good!
phil
November 1st, 2012
1:46 pm
Fats Domino is still alive?
Is he still fat?
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:46 pm
At what point will we stop hearing about Heyward’s “future potential”?
35 seems about right.
I dunno about 35, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to wait until he’s at least 23….
DS1
November 1st, 2012
1:46 pm
Burrito Time!
kenhotlanta
November 1st, 2012
1:46 pm
Pascual Perez was a real character and an excellent pitcher on some good Braves’ teams.
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:46 pm
Gattis’s nickname is “White Bear”
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:47 pm
And for those of you waiting for the Klaw hate to come out….
Tim (Atlanta)
Andrelton Simmons,,,,can he reach 10-20 home runs in a season? looks like he has good bat speed…
Klaw (1:27 PM)
I’ll bet the under.
There it is.
kenhotlanta
November 1st, 2012
1:47 pm
phil, no he’s not still fat, that’s why I said he was feeble..but he can still sing very well.
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:48 pm
And more Klaw hate on the Braves….
Ben (Williamsport, PA)
Any thoughts on Teheran? I’ve heard his ceiling isn’t as high as people once thought? He’s been around for a while but he’s still just 21.
Klaw (1:47 PM)
I think that’s fair. Age is a bigger factor for hitters than pitchers, and Teheran’s lack of fastball life or an above average breaking ball are major issues.
DS1
November 1st, 2012
1:50 pm
you made me cry when you said goodbye
ain’t that a shame
my tears fell like rain
ain’t that a shame
you’re the one to blame
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
1:51 pm
Why do I have a feeling Wren is going to target Torii Hunter, counting on the fact that the White Bear will be the man in a year or two.
phil
November 1st, 2012
1:51 pm
I’m not fat and I’m not feeble….
Of course, I’m not 90 or so either. Glad Fats is still with us.
phil
November 1st, 2012
1:52 pm
DS1
November 1st, 2012
1:50 pm
you made me cry when you said goodbye
ain’t that a shame
my tears fell like rain
ain’t that a shame
you’re the one to blame
***********
Sang the dude just before the retraining order was issued….
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
1:54 pm
even with inflation that is OVERPAID.
Overpaid relative to whom? There are 750 guys in a population on 7+ billion people who are able to do that job, at any given moment. That’s one guy in ten million. One guy out of New York City, fercrissake.
As long as there is demand for the level of baseball these guys play, the miniscule supply of players will dictate a high level of compensation. That’s not overpayment, just a natural result of economics.
If it were easy, everybody would do it, and they could be paid accordingly.
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:55 pm
Why do I have a feeling Wren is going to target Torii Hunter, counting on the fact that the White Bear will be the man in a year or two.
I think it’s entirely possible that Wren targets Torii Hunter while not counting on Gattis at all. To me those are independent decisions that don’t really impact one another (at this time).
I’d actually be perfectly happy for Wren to add Hunter to play LF, but my guess is that the Angels are going to be willing to offer him a more attractive contract to stay than Atlanta would offer him to leave.
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:57 pm
ncscoots,
Great point. It’s not exactly like baseball’s owners are going into the poorhouse due to these giant contracts, is it? When you are getting TV deals in the 12 digits, you can certainly afford to pay a few players 8 figures.
Shaun
November 1st, 2012
1:58 pm
My question is when will some realize Heyward was one of the 10-15 best players in the NL this past season, his age 22 season? When that happens, folks will stop with this idea that he hasn’t reached his potential.
RC
November 1st, 2012
1:59 pm
But scoots, I remember early 1950s DUKE SNIDER had a great year and had to hold out to get $35,000 Now a rookie [not even a good rookie] gets $450,000 his first year, even with inflation that is OVERPAID.
If you are comparing to national inflation, sure. If you are comparing to the inflation of baseball revenues, then it’s not even close to being “overpaid”.
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
2:00 pm
When you are getting TV deals in the 12 digits, you can certainly afford to pay a few players 8 figures.
Exactly. Let them eat cake, as long as I’m getting the caviar.
(My ex-owner slip is showing, I know.)
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
2:02 pm
RC – Your comment makes sense. Also, the Yankees might offer Hunter a far more attractive offer for him to leave the Angels than the Braves.
RC
November 1st, 2012
2:02 pm
My question is when will some realize Heyward was one of the 10-15 best players in the NL this past season, his age 22 season? When that happens, folks will stop with this idea that he hasn’t reached his potential.
Shaun, while I agree with your point entirely, I would clarify the end of your statement a bit by saying that he’s reached his potential “up to this point”. I believe that at his age his has the “potential” to get even better, while fully acknowledging that’s he’s already a pretty great player.
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
2:02 pm
When that happens, folks will stop with this idea that he hasn’t reached his potential
What makes you think that is the height of Heyward’s potential? I certainly expect more of him than just being in “the best dozen”.
CB
November 1st, 2012
2:03 pm
scoots,are you conversing with a not real person?
kenhotlanta
November 1st, 2012
2:05 pm
Anybody watch Survivor? Jeff Kent is a contestant in the current show and I have always heard he was a real A hole as a teammate in the majors, but on this show, he is very likeable with a winning personality and playing a very good game. Not at all what I expected, which was a Russell Hantz-type person, who was a POS villain on the show.
TennesseePaul
November 1st, 2012
2:06 pm
The idea with Wells may be to bring him in in hopes that he plays well and they can trade him to a team desperate for an outfielder, pick up a significant portion of his contract and get some quality young players back.
This isn’t going to happen. The only way that happens is if suddenly those “smartest people in baseball” stop looking at the entire body of work, “all the evidence,” and make a trade based on a small sample size.
RedSox might be interested in Wells simply to unload another bad contract. Swapping of bad contracts happens in baseball. It turns out to be $30M for Lackey or $42M for Wells.
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
2:07 pm
Shaun – I would like to think that Heyward has yet to reach his full potential. This is far from a criticism. Indeed, his progress to date (as the stats show) should be commended and not condemned.
flange1
November 1st, 2012
2:07 pm
When that happens, folks will stop with this idea that he hasn’t reached his potential.
Sorry I strongly disagree with this.
Heyward did great work in coming to camp in 2012 prepared to improve. And Improve his did on defense, running the bases and at the plate.
I enjoyed watching play this year.
But I think he can be a better player and fully reach his potential. Maybe not so much more improved running the bases on on defense, but can certainly improve at the plate!
I even think that Jason would tell you he can be better than he was in 2012.
cricket
November 1st, 2012
2:07 pm
Andrelton Simmons,,,,can he reach 10-20 home runs in a season? looks like he has good bat speed…
Klaw (1:27 PM)
I’ll bet the under.
under 10 or under 20? i can see him hit 10
TennesseePaul
November 1st, 2012
2:09 pm
Klaw (1:23 PM)
Are you kidding me? This is going to be *hilarious*. Just watch what Frank Wren does over at those awful Braves. Man, the Braves suck.
RC
November 1st, 2012
2:09 pm
Tumbledown,
Good point…didn’t even consider what other teams could offer Hunter.
My best guess for the Braves is that they either acquire a player via trade, or end up picking up a guy slightly above the “bargain bin” level (or possibly one of each). I actually think those mid-tier guys tend to be the best value, because you aren’t paying the crazy top-of-the-market rate that the elite guys get, but you should be getting better performance than the next tier down would provide.
I guess if I was to describe what the Braves will end up with, I’d have to say they are looking for “premium players”.
(Too heavy on the Efrim baiting?)
Shaun
November 1st, 2012
2:10 pm
ncscoots, I’m not saying this is the height of his potential. I’m saying that being one of the best dozen or so at 22 means he’s pretty much lived up to his potential so far. Probably should have added the “so far” in there.
If someone came to us prior to the 2010 season and told us Heyward would post a 116 OPS+ and be one of the better baserunners and defensive players in the game from 2010-2012, his first three seasons, we would be happy with that and wouldn’t think he’s failed so far to live up to his potential.
The folks who think he has been a disappointment seem to be the folks who look at stats like batting average rather than the folks who look at baseball performance.
phil
November 1st, 2012
2:13 pm
Halloween is over with….
On to Christmas.
phil
November 1st, 2012
2:15 pm
Batting average has nothing to do with baseball performance….
Neither do RBI or steals or walks or homeruns or hits or HBP or ROE.
Shaun
November 1st, 2012
2:15 pm
TennesseePaul, my thinking is that the Angels would be paying some of the remainder of Vernon Wells’ contract, the Red Sox would be paying some and, by the time he’s traded to another team, that team would pay him virtually nothing. I could see some team taking Vernon Wells, if they could get him for virtually nothing, as some sort of a role player.
But, yes, I also think a big part of this for the Red Sox could be moving John Lackey.
Shaun
November 1st, 2012
2:18 pm
phil, batting average has something to do with baseball performance but it’s very limited. But some seem to think that if a player doesn’t hit close to .300, he can’t be one of the best players. Those are the folks I’m calling out.
RBI have about as much to do with performance as pitcher wins, probably less.
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 1st, 2012
2:19 pm
Based on information that has leaked out of the Bourn camp I feel we are allowed to change our predictions from earlier on what will happen for this team. Plus the fact that nothing has happened yet I am changing my answer:
3B: Prado
LF: Gordon
CF: Upton BJ
I feel Wren wants young talent if he is going to spend $. Upton is not my 1st choice but I really see 1 trade and 1 signing and based on that this is my prediction even though I would prefer his brother. I just don’t see a match with Arizona and I don’t see 2 trades happening.
phil
November 1st, 2012
2:20 pm
At the very least, an RBI usually indicates that some poor slob put the ball into play instead of striking out. Let’s at least give em that, whadda ya say?
Shaun
November 1st, 2012
2:23 pm
My stats (batting average, pitchers wins, RBI) are better than your stats (WAR, wOBA, Defensive Runs Saved).
See, every baseball fan is a stathead to one degree or another. But there are clearly some stats that have a stronger relationship to baseball performance than others, as is evident by years and years of data and by plenty of scrutinizing of the data.
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
2:24 pm
RC- I agree that the Braves will probably end up acquiring a player best described as “premium lite”, less hitting and overall not quite as productive as your regular premium player.
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
But some seem to think that if a player doesn’t hit close to .300, he can’t be one of the best players.
Only in the sense that excellence in the skill of making safe contact leads to excellence in not making outs. You simply aren’t going to find too many of the “best players” who are career .250 guys.
Murph
November 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
the Braves will probably end up acquiring a player best described as “premium lite”
If we’re lucky…
cricket
November 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
Halloween is over with….
On to Christmas.
thanksgiving is cancelled?
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
2:26 pm
Phil – Halloween is over with…. On to Christmas.
Don’t forget thanksgiving. I’m looking forward to turkey with all of the trimmings.
Stupid question from the computer challenged – how does one put a comment in italics?
DAP
November 1st, 2012
2:27 pm
phil At the very least, an RBI usually indicates that some poor slob put the ball into play instead of striking out. Let’s at least give em that, whadda ya say?
coulda walked with the bases loaded. bum.
RC
November 1st, 2012
2:28 pm
My stats (batting average, pitchers wins, RBI) are better than your stats (WAR, wOBA, Defensive Runs Saved).
My stats are grit, hustle, and heart. Nothing can beat those.
Except talent, I guess.
old man
November 1st, 2012
2:28 pm
DS1, sorry, out cleaning gutters.
My only point is that some of our prospects who are doing well aren’t 19 years old right out of high school. They have been to college, or have some life experience (e.g., Gattis) so that they might be more mature, have a better work ethic, and might progress through classifications quicker than would otherwise be the case. So, pegging Ahmed to be a possible MLB player in 2015 might be a little unfair to him, and bad for the organization.
That’s my only point, comparing their ages to some guys who are either decent MLB players, or are thought to be completely ready, e.g., Myers. Just leave a little room for these guys to impress this spring. That’s all.
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
2:29 pm
a player best described as “premium lite”, less hitting and overall not quite as productive as your regular premium player.
Will “premium lite” and “regular premium” be enough categorization? Will we need “premium ultra-lite” or “super premium”? “Premium unleaded”, maybe?
RC
November 1st, 2012
2:29 pm
phil At the very least, an RBI usually indicates that some poor slob put the ball into play instead of striking out. Let’s at least give em that, whadda ya say?
coulda walked with the bases loaded. bum.
Even worse, could have been hit-by-pitch with the bases loaded. Idiot couldn’t even get out of the way fast enough.
MiaBchBravesFan
November 1st, 2012
2:30 pm
Truly horrid news regarding Pascual Perez. Deeply saddened and wishing the Perez family peace during this terrible time. How horrible is it that many of our Latin American ballplayers and their loved ones are subject to murder and kidnapping once they return to their homeland. Third World desperation and depravity at its utter worst!
RC
November 1st, 2012
2:31 pm
Will “premium lite” and “regular premium” be enough categorization? Will we need “premium ultra-lite” or “super premium”? “Premium unleaded”, maybe?
I expect the Braves to end up with some 89 octane players. Not quite the 93 stuff they put in BMW’s and Mercedes, but none of that 87 crap either. And definitely not the 85 octane sludge they sell in Colorado (ironically, their gas is 85 octane too!).
phil
November 1st, 2012
2:31 pm
DAP
November 1st, 2012
2:27 pm
phil At the very least, an RBI usually indicates that some poor slob put the ball into play instead of striking out. Let’s at least give em that, whadda ya say?
coulda walked with the bases loaded. bum.
************
Note the word usually….
Shaun
November 1st, 2012
2:32 pm
At the very least, an RBI usually indicates that some poor slob put the ball into play instead of striking out. Let’s at least give em that, whadda ya say?
phil, sure. The problem is that some players don’t get the opportunity to put the ball in play and some players’ hitting skills are positive in such a way that don’t lead to many RBI for them.
Players who hit for power and are good judges of the strikezone and take more pitches than other players tend to drive in fewer runs than some lesser players. Pitchers tend to be more careful with those types of hitters and those hitters tend to not chase pitches that are more likely to lead to outs. JD Drew comes to mind. Heyward has been this type of player so far.
Even a player like Chipper is somewhat like this. While he posted plenty of high RBI seasons, he never had eye-popping RBI totals. If RBI were that telling, you’d think a hitter as great as Chipper, a player who finished his career at .303/.401/.529 would have led the league in RBI at least once or twice or would have finished in the top 10 more than once.
Braves fans, after watching players like Chipper hardly ever finish at or near the top of the league in RBI and after watching players like Jeff Francoeur drive in about as many runs for a couple of seasons as Chipper did in many of his seasons, should understand that RBI are not something you want to look at when judging and evaluating hitters.
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
2:33 pm
I expect the Braves to end up with some 89 octane players.
Fine for your local dirt track, less so for Indy, LOL.
MiaBchBravesFan
November 1st, 2012
2:33 pm
DS1: The Mets right now, on top of having extended the club option to Wright, are in talks about a contract extension. The chances of prying Wright from the Mets are slim to none, with none in a fat, safe lead.
phil
November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm
cricket
November 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
Halloween is over with….
On to Christmas.
thanksgiving is cancelled?
***************
Nah, it’s just overlooked in the mad frenzy that is black friday…
And it’s my year to be with “her” family, which means it will be anything but enjoyable in most respects….sigh.
phil
November 1st, 2012
2:35 pm
MiaBchBravesFan
November 1st, 2012
2:33 pm
DS1: The Mets right now, on top of having extended the club option to Wright, are in talks about a contract extension. The chances of prying Wright from the Mets are slim to none, with none in a fat, safe lead.
*************
True, but you can’t say “fat” here….
CB
November 1st, 2012
2:35 pm
phil,for them,right?
BravePack(FreeFan)
November 1st, 2012
2:37 pm
So here’s MY line-up:
Gordon LF
Prado 3B
Heyward RF
Upton CF
Freeman 1B
McCann C
Uggla 2B
Simmons SS
That’s a pretty good line-up…offensively and defensively.
Tumbledown
November 1st, 2012
2:37 pm
ncscoots – Its is all good, although I am not sure I want a player described as “diesel.” Could be some PED concerns.
DAP
November 1st, 2012
2:38 pm
shaun . If RBI were that telling, you’d think a hitter as great as Chipper, a player who finished his career at .303/.401/.529 would have led the league in RBI at least once or twice or would have finished in the top 10 more than once.
i think this argument only works if chipper had very low RBI numbers. he doesnt.
ncscoots
November 1st, 2012
2:39 pm
although I am not sure I want a player described as “diesel.”
Starts slowly, but good for the long haul?
Shaun
November 1st, 2012
2:39 pm
Only in the sense that excellence in the skill of making safe contact leads to excellence in not making outs. You simply aren’t going to find too many of the “best players” who are career .250 guys.
This is exactly the type of thought I’m referring to. Heyward hit .269 in 2012 yet was one of the top 10-15 players in the game.
Here’s something to stir things up: Heyward was probably closer in value to Miguel Cabrera than Cabrera was to Mike Trout, if we go by the things that relate to baseball performance and not just going on the cute little stats we like.
TennesseePaul
November 1st, 2012
2:40 pm
[New Marlins Manager, Mike Redmond, will] be introduced as their fifth manager since early 2010 at a news conference at their ballpark Friday.
Sheeeeesh. When you word it like that you really get to see how fast Loria burns through managers.
RC
November 1st, 2012
2:40 pm
So here’s MY line-up:
Gordon LF
Prado 3B
Heyward RF
Upton CF
Freeman 1B
McCann C
Uggla 2B
Simmons SS
I’d flip Freeman and Upton, but not bad overall.
However, you know good and well if Fredi had those players he’d be batting Upton leadoff, OBP be damned.