9:11 pm October 22, 2012, by Carroll Rogers
October 30th, 20124:46 pm
not untouchable, but would have to bring back a top quality player, cause if he hits 700+ he is gonna be one valuable dude
I’d deal him if the right bat came back. Then move some pitching to get a SS.
Why not move some some pitching for SS, and then trade that guy?
October 30th, 20124:47 pm
Don’t get me wrong folks. I love Simmons. But he’s not untouchable if I’m the GM.
With those names, is anyone untouchable?
Did we pick up the option on Chipper?
October 30th, 20124:48 pm
TOBF,there was one better. Someone traded Hanson for Ellsbury.
Who would you deal Simmons for? (or as part of a package)
Tulowitzki? And with the Rockies paying about 4-5mil maybe. Not gonna use Janish as everyday SS for the season.
October 30th, 20124:50 pm
But who knows, if Ahmed is nearly ready, and is supposed to be as good as Simmons at least defensively, maybe we do consider that. But I doubt that’ll be the case next year.
October 30th, 20124:52 pm
That would certainly be a blockbuster. Simmons, a pitcher or two, couple of farm teams, ought to get a listen.
October 30th, 20124:53 pm
I seriously doubt that Ahmed is as good as Simmons defensively. while he was playing he led the majors pretty much
Tulo has had a lot of injuries, and there is a lot of money and years left on that contract.
I’d probably trade Simmons for him, but it’s not a sure thing.
October 30th, 20124:54 pm
I don’t think I’ve heard anywhere that Ahmed was supposed to be as good defensively as Simmons. There are maybe 3 prospects in baseball who project to be as good as Simmons defensively.
October 30th, 20124:55 pm
Tulo has had a lot of injuries, and there is a lot of money and years left on that contract….RC
October 30th, 20124:56 pm
The problem with dealing a player like Simmons is contract considerations more than anything else. The Braves are basically paying nothing for an 80 glove and 80 arm at shortstop for a few years and will pay below market value for a few more before he hits free agency.
Most of the players for which it would be worth it to trade Simmons are expensive or will be much sooner than Simmons.
It’s just rarely worth it to trade a good, young player and get equal value in return.
wouldn’t the club control for a number of years be attractive, though? He’s signed through about Social Security, right?
October 30th, 20124:57 pm
I’m pretty sure Simmons is not getting dealt. But personally, I think if you have a guy that is that highly regarded, then he might be used to get something back more important.
Is there that great of a difference between a guy like Simmons and somebody like Stephen Drew? Would you rather have Upton and Janish (or pick another average SS) than Cody Ross and Simmons?
Again, this is just a conversation starter……….. this sort of move rarely happens.
October 30th, 20125:00 pm
144mil thru 2020. Whoa
October 30th, 20125:01 pm
Would you rather have Upton and Janish (or pick another average SS) than Cody Ross and Simmons?..DS1
nope, not moi
That’s a lot of samolians!
October 30th, 20125:02 pm
Shoot, an AAV of what, $18MM? Not that bad. You only live once.
For a young, healthy guy who is locked up significantly below market value for those years? Sure.
For a guy with a pretty scary injury history who is set to be paid market value for those years? It’s highly likely that he’ll produce less value on the field than those dollars would get you in the marketplace. There’s also a slight chance that he has a catastrophic injury and never plays baseball again, at which point you’d be spending $20 million a year on a guy who’s not even playing.
11:$5.5M, 12:$8.25M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15-19:$20M annually, 20:$14M, 21:$15M club option ($4M buyout)
Is there that great of a difference between a guy like Simmons and somebody like Stephen Drew? Would you rather have Upton and Janish (or pick another average SS) than Cody Ross and Simmons?
The problem with this type of question is that it obviously completely ignores the rest of the team. Maybe Cody Ross and Simmons would be preferable to Upton and Janish, if the Braves were able to find a very good platoon partner for Ross, a very good or great all-around centerfielder, if they could add a great pitcher or two.
Also, I know people pay attention to contracts and consider it when they throw out trades but I’m not sure we factor in contract status enough. That’s a huge factor in any transaction or non-transaction.
October 30th, 20125:05 pm
OK, enough of my Simmons experiment.
I guess my main point is that there are no real good choices for a real RH banger for LF. Even though we have the cash to make the deal, there are no free agents that fit the bill. And even though we have some trading pieces, who is out there?
It’s going to be interesting to see which way Smilin Frank goes.
October 30th, 20125:06 pm
I actually think there is a pretty big difference between Simmons and Drew. But the type of evaluation you bring up makes sense. Would you rather have Simmons + free agent or say Upton + Pastornicky?
Part of the problem comes to what Shaun brings up though….Simmons is making NOTHING the next few years. So if you keep him, let’s say the Braves have $15 M to spend on LF. If they trade Simmons for an established LF, they are likely also allocating that $15 M to the new player. So now they have $0 and a hole at SS, meaning that Janish or Pastornicky would have to fill the spot. It’s likely the the gap between Simmons and one of those two is greater than the gap between Upton and $15 million free agent left fielder.
October 30th, 20125:07 pm
Don’t over think it Fredo!
October 30th, 20125:08 pm
Right now, I feel real happy for McFann! Congrats to you.
So now I was wrong about the option being declined. Now what are the Braves gonna do when they have 26 mil tied up in Uggla and McCann? Guess prayer works wonders. Shall we bow our heads. Seriously though arb is gonna take away quite a bit. Especially Prado. Looks like the trade route is now happening vs free agency. This guarantees Bourn is done. We have about 20 mil to spend and 15 isn’t going to Bourn. 100% no chance he is back. Also IMO it appears Prado will be at 3rd. Wren wants him back in the infield as he mentioned.
Looks like all the money will go to the outfield. So, expect Upton(both), Pagan, and at least one player out of the blue to be in the conversations.
Rock on……..congrats McFann!
October 30th, 20125:09 pm
Just great. Hurricane Sandy and now this… http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/30/3577656/disney-buys-lucasfilm-plans-to-release-star-wars-episode-7-in-2015
October 30th, 20125:10 pm
Folks, let me make this one easy: The Braves are NOT trading Andrelton Simmons.
October 30th, 20125:11 pm
So trade Simmons + for Upton and then go after a SS like Drew? Or someone else? I don’t know I’m a big fan of Simmons.
You are on twitter right? What happened to FF? He had an account on there and then he was gone. Had too much would be my guess. I see more and more athletes dropping off which is hard to believe considering how great fans are?
The right handed LF bangers are just not very plentiful right now.
Uggla and Mac can’t suck again this year… esp. not Uggla. He will definitely be making up for his past 2 years. It’ll be a big year for him. With continued growth from Freeman and Uggla, + Simba hitting adequately, our offense should do fine. A RH banger would be nice as well, but with so much improvement expected in the offense, maybe we can afford to go cheap in CF. Get defense.
Broken record again….
October 30th, 20125:14 pm
Damn DOB…..just typing those very words. Oh wise one. BTW….Patterson Hood was in great form this weekend. DBT’S two nights. Outstanding.
DS1, depends on what you mean by “banger.” You look at a player like Willingham and what he’s done over the past three years or so and he’s about as big a “banger” as any possible left fielder that could be available.
We may have this ideal leftfielder in mind but do those players exist? Not are they available in a trade, but do they exist…period?
You’ve got Ryan Braun and Matt Holliday. But after that, who are the leftfield “bangers”? Willingham is certainly in the class right behind those guys, offensively.
I think we forget how difficult it is to play major league baseball and how there are very few ideal players at this position or another. At many positions there are no absolutely ideal players. You can find issues with almost any player.
Wow….looking over the Rockies’ contracts on Cot’s Contracts and noticed the deal they worked with Helton to restructure his contract last year. The Rockies are now going to be paying him something like $1.35 million a year through the year 2023. He’ll be 50 years old and still collecting a check from the Rockies.
Although now that I think about it, I think he still might be younger than Jamie Moyer was when he pitched for the Rockies last year.
Do you read the actual jest of the posts before making those sort of comments? Sometimes we say stuff just to get a conversation going.
Hell, we’re not getting any juicy stuff from the inside right now!
RHB=Willingham. 28th highest career OPS+ of all active players
No More Brave
October 30th, 20125:16 pm
The Fat Over-Weight Catcher of 9 seasons has no WS Ring. Where as, the other homegrown GA boy has 2 WS Rings in 3 seasons. Frank Wren, You are an IDIOT !!!
October 30th, 20125:17 pm
Brian McCann cant sniff Buster Posey’s Jock Strap !!
October 30th, 20125:18 pm
Agreed. Even if you expand that to all OF’ers and third basemen. Not many ideal players out there.
And would FW listen if Milwaukee came calling and offering Braun for Simmons and some pitching?
The Rockies are now going to be paying him something like $1.35 million a year through the year 2023. He’ll be 50 years old and still collecting a check from the Rockies.
Braves have a few easy years left on that Bruce Sutter deal from the 80’s
“…pay Sutter $1.3 million a year for the 30 years after the six-year deal ends.”
That was Dec 8th, 1984… two more years to go!
cae you be any sillier than judging a player be the number of rings in a team sport?
October 30th, 20125:19 pm
I believe Ross has said several times he does not want to start and prefers a backup role. And with Chipper retired, we need Ross for his leadership, too.
I want the Braves to over-think their decisions. I want them to factor in the entire team and not just look at two positions and determine if they come out ahead with these two players versus those two players.
October 30th, 20125:20 pm
We’re going to miss #10 next year, four shore.
Are we including minor league championship rings, major league division rings, league rings and wild card rings along with those world series rings?
October 30th, 20125:22 pm
Little League trophies too
October 30th, 20125:23 pm
I can tell you that I’d bet the mortgage that the Braves over think these things. I was referring to overthinking too much here on the blog.
No prob. When I am proposing a “way out there” deal or theoretical deal, I DO think those things through first (well, most of the time).
October 30th, 20125:24 pm
I won the 8th grade spelling bee back in 1968. Does that count?
Does the guy who signed Tulo to that decade-long deal still have a job?
“[Sutter] chose the Braves, he said, because of Turner’s commitment to the club and Atlanta’s scenic beauty…”
Basically, “they gave me a lot of money.”
October 30th, 20125:25 pm
If he’s so good, Why hasn’t he helped the team to the World Series, and won it ??? He will never be as good as Buster Posey. Never !
Yes. And he signed Cargo to a similarly long deal.
October 30th, 20125:27 pm
I love Simmons.
I would trade him in a heartbeat for Justin Upton.
They would never make that deal.
don’t remember seeing anybody say he was, now take your nap
I’m surprised that nobody commented on my comparison of the storm damage estimates to the Braves payroll and to the national deficit and debt.
Heck, the Feds should just write a check to fix everything. It’d be a drop in the bucket of the cash they spend every year anyway! Hell, they’ll just eventually print some more money and all your retirement savings will be worth half what it should be………
(this is not a political statement)
October 30th, 20125:28 pm
Murph: I am surprised that George Lucas cashed out, and that the deal included Lucasfilm’s prized high-tech production companies, Industrial Light & Magic and Skywalker Sound. Those 2 companies have changed and advanced movie making in many, many ways.
Even more surprising was the $4.05B price and the fact that Disney paid $7.4B for Pixar in 2006 and $4.2B for Marvel Comics in 2009. I would have thought Lucasfilms would be worth more than those 2 companies.
October 30th, 20125:31 pm
they can write a check to cover mine, be Ok with me
The cover of the new Bill James Handbook has a big picture of Chipper doffing his helmet to a crowd. He’s alone on the cover.
I really love Posey, but seriously man? McCann is one of the top 3-4 catchers in the NL, maybe even the whole MLB. Those guys are all pretty good. I’m glad we have one of them.
October 30th, 20125:32 pm
Let’s sign FFand Heyward to 10 yr contracts,why not?
I like Span too
October 30th, 20125:33 pm
you seem testy, I thought mommy might have forgotten to tuck you in this afternoon….
FOX Sports: MLB @MLBONFOX
During press conference, @Tigers GM David Dombrowski said the team will not pursue re-signing ALCS MVP Delmon Young & RP Jose Valverde.
Wren, do not go after either of those 2. They are not premium players.
October 30th, 20125:34 pm
Not really, nolie, thereby eliminating nearly every sportscaster and analyst in each and every sport from consideration in the having much sense category.
If I’ve heard it once, I’ve heard it nine hundred million times that Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl, therefore……
Such a bunch of bull.
I have a hard time putting that kind of money in context……………
And all I ask for is for the Braves to NOT pick up the options of Hudson, McCann and Maholm; then just send that money over to me for 1 year.
I could do a lot of good w/ 25 million or so!
I’d throw one heckuva opening day tailgate party next spring!
October 30th, 20125:35 pm
I remember James saying that Chipper was one of the players who caused him to rethink his stance on clutch a bit
October 30th, 20125:37 pm
ken, at first it sounded like a ridiculous amount of money… then you realize that the Star Wars franchise alone has brought in over $4bil… add in Indiana Jones and everything else and I think Disney got a good deal.
I’m glad that they got Star Wars away from Lucas. They need to give the franchise over to Joss Whedon (as soon as he’s done with the next Avengers movie)… he’ll make Star Wars cool again.
October 30th, 20125:38 pm
what good would that do US way out thar in Montanny?
October 30th, 20125:39 pm
Delmon Young… 20 walks, 121 strikeouts… sub .300 OBP.
No, no thank you.
October 30th, 20125:40 pm
Nah nolie, we’d do it at the Ted. I’d have Tiger fly down and pick you up too!
October 30th, 20125:42 pm
Delmon Young… kicked a catcher… threw his bat at an umpire… was accused of a hate crime…
He’s got grit.
October 30th, 20125:47 pm
some of us said last winter that Young was an ass
October 30th, 20125:49 pm
I’d say he’s about as un-Atlanta Brave as a guy could be.
October 30th, 20125:51 pm
some folks were pushing for him
October 30th, 20125:53 pm
With a name like Delmon….
October 30th, 20125:54 pm
A.J. Ellis makes a very special delivery
On Oct. 12, Ellis’ wife, Cindy, gave birth to the couple’s third child in the front seat of their car on Interstate 43 South just outside Milwaukee. Ellis–who estimates he was traveling 75 mph down the highway in a futile attempt to make it to the hospital–didn’t even have a chance to pull the vehicle off to the side of the road before the baby arrived.
She began screaming at her husband that she didn’t think they were going to make it to the hospital.
“And I’m thinking, this is 2012, not the ‘Oregon Trail.’ Of course we’re gonna make it,” Ellis said. “So I’m calmly telling her we’re making it. I figured she was just panicking because she was in excruciating pain.”
As Ellis merged on to the interstate, Cindy laid down the front passenger seat and turned to face out the rear window of the car. Writhing in pain, she got down on all fours and gripped the headrest.
“I kept telling him the pain was not normal, but in his mind it was,” Cindy said. “Then a minute later I felt the head.”
They were 18 miles from the hospital.
Audrey Elizabeth Ellis was born a minute after that, sliding on to her belly down the passenger seat and looking right at her terrified papa. She was two weeks early.
P-Town Brave ©
Maybe you should consult w/ Douchebag Wainwright on that one….
I’m sure he’d tell you that none of them matter and they shouldn’t be celebrated!
October 30th, 20125:55 pm
My first thought was, great Oregon Trail reference here
My 2nd….75….that was it?! I drive faster than that on road trips, especially if I gotta pee…..I can only imagine if there were a baby on the way and it were about to be born in my ride….
October 30th, 20125:56 pm
Rays have informed right-hander James Shields that they’ll exercise his $10.25 million option for 2013.
October 30th, 20125:59 pm
Good grief on AJ Ellis! Congrats and all but that’s a bit too much info to suit me….
And of course the mother had to get in a dig….
October 30th, 20126:05 pm
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
#chisox announce $29M, 2-yr deal with jake peavy
So Greinke should get about 15.5-17.5mil per… get it done Frank
October 30th, 20126:07 pm
Hey! We have $10.25mil just sitting around…. and a bunch of extra players we aren’t using.
Let’s make a deal!
October 30th, 20126:13 pm
Wow, White Sox gave Peavy a 2-year, $29-million deal.
October 30th, 20126:24 pm
So Peavy goes 11-12 with a 3.37 ERA and that nets him a deal worth $14.5mil a year.
Greinke went 15-5 with a 3.48 ERA. More K’s, less innings. 3 years younger. Without Peavy’s injury history.
Yeah, I’d say Greinke will start at $17.5mil and go up from there.
I imagine there will be a lot of wows this off season.
October 30th, 20126:26 pm
Heap’s coming back?
Lovely. So much for the 2013 season.
October 30th, 20126:27 pm
Everything was going fairly well until I just saw the NBA season starts tonight.
October 30th, 20126:30 pm
Can’t they just skip the regular season and go straight to the 4 month long NBA playoffs? Just pick the bottom two teams from each league, tell them you’re sorry but they’ve been eliminated, and get the whole thing over with.
I hate NBA basketball.
October 30th, 20126:54 pm
NBA basketball killed the blog.
DOB, yep, “wow.”
But it happens every year. Free agents always gets 50% to 100% more than you ever imagined the market will bear. We can “afford” to pay Pagan 18M a year for 5 years, because we have 22-25M extra dollars to spend on an annual basis. Nine months ago, you would call someone a fool who thought Pagan would get that, and you may still say I’m a fool for saying it, but just watch. When 10 or so teams start bidding for that new toy they just gotta have, the price will go up. And the price for Willingham, in terms of players and prospects will also get bid way up.
I’m beginning to think we need to look in the Bourjos, Cody Ross, Span, etc. price range, whether it is in a trade market or a free agent market. I also like the idea of using money to pick up a free agent piece we don’t really need, but to replace someone that another team covets, in order to convert that cash into prospects and high draft picks.
October 30th, 20126:57 pm
Its a good move to pick up the options on Hudson, Mc Cann and Malholm.
They did not go cheap and that is good. Now, if we address LF and CF its all set for ‘13.
If we get the good Mc Cann back by say June 1, he is worth waiting for. I would rather he miss a month or two and come back really ready.
Good start to the off season.
October 30th, 20126:58 pm
I just worry about paying a bunch, in long term contracts or prospects, and then when you crack open the one big egg in your one big basket, you find out it is rotten.
You know what that smells like?
October 30th, 20127:03 pm
Just talked to Wren, who said there was very little discussion among team officials when it came to picking up the three options. Said all three are big parts of the team.
He also hopes McCann might miss only the first couple of weeks of the season, rather than most or all of April. In meantime, he said they can fill from within, with Ross if he’s back, and others including Boscan, Bethancourt and yes, Gattis. (I had asked him earlier in the call about Gattis and he had a lot of good things to say about him.)
Here’s updated story:
Gee Old Man, I would not want to pay Pagan that. I am not sure I’d pay him in the 10 mil per yr range.
As you said, its prolly better to stay in the Cody Ross, Denard Span, Bourjos range. Its smarter and we have two positions to fill. Ben Revere is another one so is Alex Gordon.
We are prolly going to do the trade route, though they might get some bargains real late in FA when somebody who has something left cannot find a team.
I could see Torri Hunter in that group of late FA signs.
October 30th, 20127:04 pm
Folks, that Giants line up that just won the World Series? Three months ago, if you had gone down the list position by position, not a single one of you would have traded our starting eight for their starting eight. If we had gotten into an NLDS series with them, you still would not have done that. Nor would I.
But the idea that you have to have THE player who is coming off a HUGE year in order to be competitive may not be accurate.
October 30th, 20127:05 pm
“He also hopes McCann might miss only the first couple of weeks of the season, rather than most or all of April.”
That is the best possible thing that could happen. Even better if we are able to get Ross back. I have a guess hunch that some team will give Ross a two yr deal we cannot afford for his role so we might be looking at younger options. We really do not know what those minor leaguers can do.
October 30th, 20127:07 pm
You just wait. With all the World Series exposure, Pagan’s stock will be sky high. I would love Pagan on my team, but at 10M a year, or less. When you see what Pagan signs for, I predict you will be, well . . . disgusted.
October 30th, 20127:09 pm
Fill from within? That better mean Gattis, not Boscan. We’re gonna need at least 3-5 spot starts, possibly some PH ABs.
DOB,thanks for the story.
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